that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
He dodges these reporters because he is a corrupted crook. I am going to expose this whole farce of an abusive church. McKean allows mind-controlled bullying. He knows it goes on and he is a weakling. You can tell him that he is a weak minded puss just like all of the punks he has running his criminal activity.....my then girlfriend brought me to her hell of a church (pun intended).....once they found out that I was Greek Orthodox, they attacked my girlfriend and I.....
@BrownishBunny ....that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
@anticoc1 Hey dude. I totally understand. I bitterness will always be there, but more as a lesson. I completely understand the relationship restrictions. I was controlled in a similar way and considered 'prideful' for having my own opinions and perspective. I lost a potential relationship this way too. The good news is that you and I have escaped this black hole of idiocy. Those that remain, wish them luck...they need it. Even if they say \things are different now.' It's the same.
@ruk987654 that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
If there really is a god why doesn't he/she just tell us which is the true church? I think this question will generate a lot of 'excuses' but no real good answers. Which in itself adds more evidence that there is no god or one that cares.
.Cont. Jesus says that his followers will be persecuted and these comments are evidence of that. Some of these comments are not at all helpful- the bible says to say only what is useful for building others up.. I know many were hurt and I don't deny that our churches may have often been controlling and legalistic, but many have repented, If you look at our church now, you will find a group of people who cling to god and his word and love one another. God Bless!
@aeri001310 This is not persecution, this comments are just criticism about a guy who bragged about having the biggest church that's all Kip is a hypocrite, he said that people in leadership positions could not have their kids leave the church, when his daughter deiced to leave, he resisted for a long time.
@aeri001310 Most humans are capable of love and sacrifice. Not exclusive to your group. Sorry. Also, fear is used to control people by many ideologies. That is also not exclusive to ICOC. Jeez...no uniqueness...OMG!
I know many were hurt by the ways things were dealt with and the legalism and statistic focus of some people, but I know that the bible teaches baptism and repentance and to love one another and to love God and this is what icoc teaches. We are human and are not perfect, but through repentance, our churches have come along way from where we were in the nineties.
@aeri001310 The people are mostly nice...However, I feel the people are lost and a grabbing onto anything to give them 'normalcy'...anything is better than facing loneliness of the reality of their own lives? They are kept busy...so no time to worry or feel bad? Like a mouse on a little mouse treadmill.
Brainwashing bastards. I read the Bible and worship God my way. Screw them they're all about numbers not people. Pharisees with a few good people fed with guilt trips. If God wants you in heaven so be it. Egotisitical leaders.
They are a bunch of parasites. They lure you in with friendship. But you don't know anything until you're in. You ruin your life to support them. I have looked to God my whole life for strength. But this church reeks with pride from their leaders. They turn you into a robot. They don't care.
@sk00tchies Careful -- I am a former member of the San Francisco cult -- You were told not to browse the web looking for articles, etc. about the church, no?
I am a member of this church, but I have to tell you that this man IS CRAZY; certain people in this church got all caught up in the "legalism" of the rules and, unfortunately, HURT MANY PEOPLE! Our MAIN FOCUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE HEART! @ sk00tchies...I am not bitter, but I am still hurt, as are some very close people I know, about how some practices were conducted! In my opinion, the "old way" seemed like no room for human error was allowed; THANK GOD for the exposure in the Kriete letter!
I was a member of this organization 97 thru 99, untill I got married and o boy it is hard the get out without some kind of guilt, but since they couldnot showme on the BIBLE all their rules the rest was easy; if the true set me free why should I be force to join their club, if salvation it's free and by Faith, who needs that kind of congregation, I may not be rigth but they are still wrong trying to control by fear most of their members, GOD IS LOVE, and He Wants you to be happy and FREE.
Well, the real church for Christ would not put bondage on their people like these people do. They say if your not part of this church you will go to hell. Another thing is that you have to live among them in order to be saved. They are brain washers and money hungry hypocrites. Shut out if your from Fort Lauderdale I now live in Arizona.
My ex wife bought into this church back in 1997, It was "the Greater Morgantown Church of Christ" in Morgantown WV, Led by Mitch Wike..I could see right through them from day 1 . They are absolutely the reason for my divorce from my wife. When they saw i wasnt gonna be a sheep, they plain and simply turned her against me. In hindsight they did me a great service. But thats the kinda thing they are about. Money grubbing and mind control.
i was in this group in the early 80's.rick bauer was our preacher in tucson ,arizona.when he was found out he left town like a chicken.but for me the damage had already been done.i've been on medication for many years now.that was in 1982-83.i'm doing better now but its been ruff.
i was a member of this church in fort laudardale florida from 90-93 got very rough on people! any member from that era from fort ludardale and south florida I will be happy to hear from them!
Perhaps he shouldn't dodge the reporter and facxe the questions, perhaps he was afraid as Peter when questioned, who knows ( I don't for sure) but so what? Were someone fool enough to keep his/her hope in a man and not in God? ...
It's funny how people who called themselves christians act like the jews in times of our Lord, waiting for someone to restore the Kingdom of God. I truly believe that is the fellowship through the Word that brings discipleship, that brings salvation (of course we all need to get baptized). But Evil is so smart that he will always find a way to stop for a while God's movement. And we ought to see that everyday and avoid falling into provocations and misleading conduct. ...
IT DOES NOT MATTER ABOUT WHAT ANYONE SAYS OR DOES. GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WILL JUDGE US IN THE END. SO IS KIP (OR ANYONE ELSE) GOING TO BE THE REASON YOU TURN AWAY FROM GOD. IN THE END IT IS YOU AND GOD, NOT ANYONE ELSE.
@7558518 How convenient. God is omnipotent and omnipresent, yet when a specific person does bad things under the guise of God or religion, it's not God or religion's fault, just that particular person. So, no matter what, God and religion are completely separated from all wrongdoing. Fuck that. Believing that is the BIBLICAL definition of STUPID.
It seems that the so-called "church of christ" is the one I had contact with when I was in "community" college. I was eating my pizza alone one day when some guy came up to me and asked me if I wanted to join a Bible study. I thought I'd see how it is. It was a superficial and short talk on the Bible, but that led to more of those talks until I saw this particular dude who eventually told me in a Bible talk to put on a line he drew when I was saved and when I was baptized by physical water. Cont
@AthosAmo I had my salvation before my physical-water-baptisms (the first was a sprinkle- unbiblical, I know. The second was full immersion) and he told me I had it wrong. He then quoted from verses that seemed to say that one must be physically baptised to be saved. I didn't agree with him and we argued for a long time. Eventually, I told him: "Look. If you're trying to get me to join your church, it's not gonna happen." He reacted as if he wasted his time and gave up interest in arguing. Cont.
@AthosAmo And this was over a series of weeks (a few days a week I met with one of them). Later, I confronted the guy who invited me to the first superficial Bible talk with them in the first place, for not telling me up-front his intentions- and he gave me some invalid excuse that I forget now. I think it was that he "was going to tell" me. Right. About a year later, I saw the other dude in the university and he acted as if he didn't see me. I shook my head for him to see. Freaking heretic.
This mob are some SERIOUSLY slick players - i was in it for 9 months and they make it almost impossible to disagreee with their interpreattion of the bible - which they twist to their own agenda - i remember members literally waiting til everybody else in the house of "brothers" was asleep and at 1 am in the morning - sneaking out a window and doing the bolt like a concentration camp prisoner from a gulag - leaving behind personal property - never to be seen again.
I am sorry, but I cannot understand you because of misspelled words and lack of punctuation. Kip McKean and all of his incarnations (ICC, ICOC, Boston International Church of Chirst, Empire City Church) are versions of the same cult. I am sure there are wonderful born again churches, but this is not one of them. This is a controlling, brain washing group of psychopaths.
They tried to get me to join as a student at NYU. They are banned from over 150 college campuses because of their coercive and manipulative tactics. Stay way from these people!!
The more I think of this group the more I think of how they drove me away from God. They teach dependence on them not on God. Every method they use to bring people to God is deceptive and manipulative.
They have'nt changed much . They turn you into a dependent personality unable to make decisions on your own. While their personality is narcisstic and controlling. They hide behind the constitution and the freedom of religion in this country. I wish the FBI would investigate their finances and put the leaders in jail.
Don't give on God because of this church. They are controversial and damage people emotionally. They are'nt as perfect and righteous as they think. Your salvation is up to you not a church.
They use more psychological techniques that are'nt in the bible. They are too literal. Just because it's in the bible once does'nt make it absolute. Many phrases are examples and parables open to wide interpretation. Look at the antichurch websites before you join. If they know you're informed they won't push as much.
I still am greatful to god for Kip and Randy for giving the insight they had to start the church in Boston when they did. Because I was reached out to and was taught the Bible not just read it but learned how to study it. I was catholic but didn't know who Jesus really was. I thank God for Gary Donavan and Paul Wissman For reaching out to me in 87 only 18yrs old. It wasn't brain washed it was living for christ not for the world and I still teach and preach to day in a baptiest church in SC Amen.
@cnasin1 I'm glad you turned your life around. I met Al Baird and never met Kip. The church was too intense for me. I was in campus ministry which is the most controversial. The teen ministry is good too. Maybe If I was in a another ministry things would have been different. By the time I left I was burned out. If people like this church and its style good for them.
@cnasin1 I think they should be locked up! And they can pay me compensation, and pay for my medication they can also reimburse my parents all the money that they gave to this mess of a "Church"
so i would throw this out to all you mammoth hunters out there - instead of attacking, why not correct with the purpose of healing. this is a very biblical concept! Mt 18.15. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.. " And rejoice that you have brothers who are willing to remain even though they are continuously accused of wrongdoing.
i say this to acknowledge past sin. but i don't think it's the church that people are attacking. i considered any injuries incurred from humans to be secondary to the impact made by the church - and, not to say the ICC is the only church preaching the truth, but.. i have never met one that was really committed through and through, as the ICC is. VERY imperfect, but also very committed. i worry that many who attack the ICC don't seem to know their bible, or even make an attempt.
i think it is totally unfair for a church that did not commit those sins to be attacked as if it did. it is important for accusations to be up to date. it is true that injuries last a long time, but that doesn't mean if you were shot in vietnam then it's ok to bust out your piece in public and start taking out bystanders.
as i have been in the church for 10 years i have felt some of the remnants of abuse. there was zeal in some of the young leaders (as is common in any organization, i think)
richard - i totally respect your experience and i'm sorry all that stuff has happened to you. we have actually talked about a lot of those things as a church and been very clear they were wrong. but i think it's important to realize: 1) the abuses didn't occur in the whole church. it's an INTERNATIONAL church. which means a lot of people, and a lot of mistakes. 2) after exposure things really changed in the places the were bad. if the churches have repented, then they have repented.
Some of the stuff you read on the internet may be dated but it did happen. It shows what happens when churches become corrupted by a movement. There are exaggerations but most of what is said has a sliver of truth to it.
These nuts did a lot of damage to a lot of people. Most who left are more cynical and miserable than before. I believe they are saved and will answer for their sins when judged by God. Fallaway from a cult, church whatever is not wrong. But walking away from Christ and going back to your old self is worse.
@richard14ize Bullshit! - if christ was real there would be no such deceptions - this cult inadvertantly showed a lot of people what a load of crap ALL churches are!
All I'm saying is that the former church of christ made me cynical of " true christians" I still have ptsd from all rantings and ravings about being a disciple and pressuring people to join. People see through the sales pitch. My last discipler is still in and a preacher in the ICC. I don't doubt his sincerety but I left because I could'nt handle the pressure. 20years ago I lost two of my family in a short time and it screwed me up so I needed friends who happened to be christians.
Here's my stance on the ICC or ANY church - anyone who puts their faith in people, or tries to make others put their faith in them, IS in a cult.
Anyone who puts their faith in Jesus is NOT in a cult. It's based on the individual. I am 'part of the ICC' but the term is so meaningless. I actually read my bible so there's not much worry about being deceived by people. (Acts 17.11)
Can somebody be a christian apart from ICOC? SURE!!! Can somebody be one apart from Christ? NO!!!
@BlueCanary82 I do not understand where all the hate is coming from. I do understand that there were people that wronged other people in in the church but if we publisized any church, you would find that. This church has taught me about family, love, reading my bible, accountabillity, and I would not have it any other way. I have been away for 7yrs now. I am praying they plant a church in Pensacola FL. I was with the church for 13yrs all over the country. Sure I was talked to harshly sometimes.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Eph 4.5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Yes you do have to be part of Christ. It's the only church in the Bib, started by God, which the early christians were trying to hold together through the holy spirit. Sin and false doctrine attempted to divide it from the beginning. If a church has the wrong center, it's false.
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
kashvenali - easy to brand people huh? i am a part of this church (as far as it agrees with god). we do not endorse kip mckean or his narcissim. we don't endorse manipulation, theft, lying, etc. we are human though and prone to all these things, and so are you, and it's why we need jesus.
'once a cult always a cult' ??? when you stole something as a child, did you remain a thief? is there no forgiveness? shall i call you thief! thief! instead of your name?
richard14 - what is your view of the 1st century church then? We have classes on the 1st century church in which people read actual books. Internet banter isn't exactly the best source of information, ya know..
@BlueCanary82 Internet is BY FAR the best source of information! Every bullshit opinion is immediately exposed by logical contradiction. Whereas the bible doesnt allow critical analysis of itself!
There will be a revival someday when God leads the exmembers out of the wilderness of this degenerate world to form a better church. There are more people outside the church 250,000 than in it. They are the strong christians who live by the spirit and will teach the "works" christians the joy of being free in Christ.
Don't be fooled by your emotions. This church is not based on biblical truth. It makes a lot of stuff up. Their version of the 1st century church is'nt accurate. This is the 21th century. The apostles witnessed jesus that's why they were martyred. You can be christlike but not christ. I was in for a year, my personality changed. They prey on the young and naive. If it's not in the bible don't believe. You don't have to be in a church to be saved. All churches can be corrupted.
I was in the BCC for a year now ICC.The leaders get a tax free salary, a tax free house, live in good neighborhoods. The followers live in slums and devote all their time to the church. Their careers, families and studies suffer and that's why they leave. What's in it for them? Nothing but giving tax free contributions to the church. Classic ponzi scheme on a biblical scale. The leaders think about ways to manipulate people all day long while the followers pay the bills.
@richard14ize I encountered the group back in '02. I almost needed to go to the phycho ward emergency room. Thank god! I had the help of good friends to get me away from them. YES THEY ARE A CULT, they use cult techniques. They harass, and they threaten. I encountered some crazy behavior among the members. May this serve as a warning to others!
The ICOC is for the most part a den of thieves... with a few good hearts thrown in, but the good ones not in position of power or influence. (it's too theatening to ,leadership) I was a member for 17 years and have been out for 6 years. I know more people now outside the church with true integrity than I ever knew inside the church.
The ICOC treated the church as a social club & everyone eventually put their faith on each other & not on God. There's a lot of persecution out there on the internet & people are so easy to believe every single thing they see. If there is anyone to blame it is the lukewarm leaders & members of the ICOC that 4got that their relationship w/ God comes first b4 over ANYTHING & ANYONE(family, friends, career, & even ur own life). People, do your research before you all bash someone you don't know
I honestly dunno where/how people came to the conclusion that Kip leads a cult. Kip is only a man & he is a sinner & so is EVERY single person out there! The only difference that sets Kip & the devoted disciples of Jesus apart from the World is that they have all repented of their sins & do their very best to live according to what the Bible says. The ICOC fell apart b/c of people's sin, not b/c of Kip McKean. The ICOC also fell part b/c they relied on Kip(and the leaders) & not on God
Baptism of Moonlight- It is your life and your choice (as Friends1434 put it)
However, keep in mind that we are only human and humans aren't perfect. The International Church of Christ is a group of people and it is more important to follow God and his word than a group of people. right?
I guess my point with this whole thing is that it's not that simple. After a recent experience I truly do believe that the International Church of Christ is a cult. I do not, however, believe that being a part of a group of people that follow God and his word means you are in a cult.
any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective
9.
of or pertaining to a cult.
10.
of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
cult /kʌlt/ Show Spelled[kuhlt] Show IPA –noun 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
In reference to "BaptismofMonnlight's" definition of a cult as "yeah what is a cult. A cult is something that follows something as god. And yeah, we are a cult because we follow God and his word."
I read this and thought it probably isn't the best summary, so here's a dictionary definition... (next post)
BaptismOfMoonlight...I do not know who you are. I would like to explain to you but I prefer not to..My previous post. It's your decision what you do with your life is yours. Thanks
@Friends1434 its fine- I have been a member for about 3 years now- never been forced into anything, nor has anyone else in the several churches spanning 5 states have either.
I have many situations happenned while I was going to that church. Now, I have my life back...All I have to say STAY AWAY..It's ultimately you have to decide for yourselve You have to ask yourselve questions and be clear mind. They said that when we leave; its sad and not make outside the church. Well, I am happy and peaceful in my life. Kip and leaders going to face God and be accountable how many lives they mislead and mind controlling, money etc....Kip left church started another church.
@Friends1434 stop twisting stuff. WHat does he do wicked with money. You dont see him living some rich life. Look at pictures of him. Is he all decked out, doe she drive a benz and live in a million dollar house. No. I doubt he ever even paid over a hundred for a pair of pants or shirt. stay away from the chruch why?
@khamodaz That does not even makes sense. You know how many christians question he bible even after being saved. They dont control a thing about you. They tell you the bible standard and thats it. nothin more and nothing less. listen to his sermons for yourself people on caicc . com.
@BaptismOfMoonlight Well you should read the bible i have heard him speak and was a disciple and a leader and preached and i regret every minute i subjected or introduced people to this cult. he has nothing to do with Christianity just uses the bible and Christianity for his gain if you seek the holy spirit for truth you will see what a sheep in wolves clothing he is and how the same bible he uses exposes him for teaching a Gospel that is different than what was preached as apostle paul said
I have been in 'the ICOC' for 9 years. I joined it as a freshman in college. Yes the people were a bit odd. Saying 'come on' during a sermon and some leadercentric views. There was less love after I was baptized.
BUT. I have never met another church that talked about sin and tried to help me unearth the tomb in my heart. OR a group that was so determined to repent. The church will always spring back, because it is centered on the Bible. Sin? Yes, plenty. But that is from people, not god. G Bls!
@BaptismOfMoonlight 1.People are put in physical or emotionally distressing situations;
2.Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3.They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader or group;
4.They get a new identity based on the group;
5.They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled
First of all no on is put in physical or mental or spiritual distressing situations. 2. What problem is that (a cult??).
3. We act as Chirst would. Any one who is a christian or wanting to learn is welcomed. 4. What do you mean they get a new identity? 5. No one is kept from anyone and there is no limit to information lol.
A cult is a group who worships something as god. So yeah ICC/ICOC/COC is a cult because we do in fact worship God ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
@BaptismOfMoonlight To your first of all..... That is a complete load of shite! Many people were mentally harmed by this so called "Church" me being one of them and I know a number of other people who needed medication and therapy after their experience, I'll grant you it may of changed now but back in the day it was absolutely horrible. If I believed God exists I think he would of been completely ashamed by this mess.
Brothers and Sisters, I want to preach to you today on something that hit me like lighting one day....THE POWER OF SELF!
It's absolutely changed my life! Since I no longer tithe, I have more money in the bank! Since I no longer pray, I have more time for my wife and kids! And since I no longer go to church, I'm much better rested on Sunday!
So Brothers and Sisters, throw off those chains from the big invisible man in the sky and believe in yourself!
What I learned and now know is that this church grows spritituallly by doing what their told to do, having discipling time with their discipling partner rather than just taking it up to God. And so it becomes work salvation rather than the holy spirit taking control. I can say that this church had made me feel bitter and lost bcoz of the things they would say. Although, it is God's calling to repent and be baptized and be a disciple of God.
Because they have a way of making you feel guilty that if you don't do what they ask you to do, they make you feel guilty and that you weren't right with God. I do thank this church for they do some good things. If it wasn't for this church I would have never had become a Christian, but they do have their own mechanism to control people's mind and life style. I am now with another church that still believes in making disciples, but is not as controlling as this church.
Ok just realized u posted more LOL. I'm glad to read that u continued going to church & praising the Lord. Amen. God bless all of you!! I went to the ICOC for many years & left quite damaged & bitter as well. I fell away from God for many years...but last year I found an AWESOME church where by the grace of GOD, I was saved. No mind control, & no people pleasing...all about GOD!
I got baptized into this church in Jan 2009. The church is now called City of Angels Christian Church in LA. The problem was when I got reached out, I don't live in LA. So, about a month I got baptized, my family and I was asked to moved to LA as it was part of giving up everything for God and is "counting the cost" to be a disciple of God. My family couldn't make that decision bcoz it just wasn't in our heart to do it. So, we lived with guilt and doubts bcoz of the things they were saying.
WOW, I thought they had left their old mentality behind...but 2009? that's pretty recent. I want u to know that Kip teaches that he is the founder of the 1 true church. Any church that teaches this doctrine is a cult. If u hve accepted Jesus in your heart, well then Amen that God used the ppl that reached out to u as vessels, however, U have the option to go to a church other than City of Angles, as long as the bible is faithfully taught! but they will not give u that option bcuz it is a CULT!
@malaszczuk no he does not- he teaches that Jesus started the church and he is a disciple preaching the message int his day and age- just like everyone else- even the person who has been a disciple for 2 days. all equal
I was raised from birth in the ICOC movement, and I can say from first hand experience that the ICOC was NOT a movement of God and Kip McKean is a total piece of shit.
hi dear. Maybe you dont know but Kip Mc Kean was announced NO BROTHER.Aand was expelled from ICOC.Some seven eight years ago. For reasons which probablly trouble you. ICOC actually maked some radical steps with those who abused some people. Christian people didn t done this, some didnt even know about this..Only very individuals... so on you side I will be upset on those who misstrited you.. not on all Church..(maybe more asJesus teach- pray for those who prosicute you, attitude) God bless
@KISTOVI There's nothing about this shit you can tell me that I don't already know. I was born into this church and left it when I was 18 and still have contact with people that go at 26. I know more about this cult than 99.9% of the people who ever attended. I was around for the Henry Kriet letter or whatever his name was. I started out in Gainesville, then moved to Boston. I was there from close to the beginning. I know Kip is no longer a part of it. It does not change my statement at all.
I hope he forgives me&my cruelty, not for me, but for himself. I don't want him burdened w/ pain I caused him. I want him to be free, but if he couldn't forgive me, that is between him and God and NO ONE has the right to judge if he would be right or not w/ God. NO ONE! I think of a line from the movie, Dangerous Liasons (sp!). Vanity and joy cannot coexist. Some Christians take so much pride in being so elite, so elect,&miss out on the endless joy of just being loved by the Greatest Lover
you know, i wrote all this stuff a long time ago, but what matters to me is that Kip is not trustworthy, and he and his followers hurt me. i have zero faith in the god i was trained to believe in...but i know where i stand, and i am glad to be free of religion.
mymemnoch, when to let go. I may be "lost", but my Creator has shown me that what delights Him/Her is deeply appreciating the Handiwork of His Hands, esp each precious human soul. I lost someone I cared for to ICOC. I was bitter for very long, years. In time I let go of my anger/betrayal. I can genuinely say, bless him, now. I also now know, in my heart, not just head, that he did care, and never intended to hurt me so. I can now forgive what happened, my hurting him, too.
I don't know what this man would say abt ICOC now (no longer in contact)No church should hurt/rip off people, or be so into doctrine it forgets how dear people are to God. I also don't believe that ICOC is a cult, but any church that robs a person of his/her personhood as I was robbed, allowed myself to be robbed, isn't where I want to be, ever. I saw an article abt ICOC and Kip leaving very recently.I was curious.I hope the man I knew is very happy and healthy, with or w/o ICOC.
I now have left Calvary, as I think any church that judges other churches is what Jesus spoke of abt Pharisees (sp!), straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Sometimes this ICOC member was kind, sometimes flippant and arrogant, sometimes beaten down and burdened. I judged his experience, but was blind to the way my world was shrinking due to CC's teaching. I'm glad ICOC is changing and open dialog is going on, that it now admits that at least some other churches also have true believers.
I have just been reading some of the comments abt the ICOC. When a man I worked with ($ I rented from his family) got involved in early 1990's, my strong impression was that this church did believe it was the only true Christian church. I had just started to go to another evangelical church;at times he invited me to try his church, and other times he argued w/ me abt my lack of devotion to God. Unfortunately, I went to Calvary Chapel, and things they told me really scared me for him & his family
I used to go to ICOC in Indianapolis and in Columbus, OH. The church's ideals get so so fucked up and twisted once you get introduced into management/house church leader. Very glad I'm no longer with that church.(With a more sane one now)
he's nothing but a business man selling a product that costs 10% of each member's paychecks, he's good at what he does and if your stupid and naive enough to think that he is from GOD then stay ignorant and continue making him a rich man you dumbass
you know what Kip McSlut I sometimes dream of tracking you down and trying to give u the pain my mental illness has brought me thanx to u! Thank you for completely destroying my life before it even began! And taking so much money from my family so u can live like a god! Luckily i dont believe in god anymore but if i did i would believe in hell and im sure Lucifer has a place for you by his side!
Kip Mckean never claimed that he is God, he is just someone who loves Him dearly and is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure things are done His way! I highly admire and respect this man. People who say bad things about him will one day have to answer to God themselves. People can learn a lot from Kip and his sermons. I am one of his biggest fans!! This world is a lot better place because of men like him!!! He has touched countless lives through this teaching of Biblical principles
Wow, people. Kip is not even a part of the ICOC for years now. The church has changed and that is why Kip was taken out and went and started his own other church.
The ICC(International Church of Christ) is even worse ICOC. More exclusive than Mormons! Gotta give they guy credit for analyzing human weaknesses and exploiting them. These Anti-Christs use the old break you down & build you back up and fear tactics used by all dicktators.
A the dumbest of the dumb are Kip McKeans prey and your "special contribution" pays for his golf clubs and vacation homes. Suckers
It's all a numbers game with this clown, it wasn't the church's fault for the abuse and whatnot, it was him and his shoddy leaders that he tried to mold in his own image. Dude you're not Jesus!
Absolutely correct! So many people (including Kip, IMO) thought the Kipster was making Chiristlike disciples, when in reality he was preying on victims and making dime-store verions of Stalin!
when i was involved with the cult i remember people being viciously demoted and in many cases thrown out of the church..if an individual was renting he'd be kicked out on the street as punishment..
I consider myself lucky in that I was in a zone of the Boston CoC that was on an even keel. The next zone over, the zone leader (male, of course) was seducing young male disciples! He was demoted, but the sexual squalor was NOT mentioned!! And I consider myself very lucky in that I got out just before Kip really ramped up his "reconstruction" craze, which, it sounds to me, you had to live through. :(
People need to realise this was a long time ago. The ICOC has changed on sooo many levels and Kip is not even a part of it anymore. The church repented and it's NOT a cult.
@quemacha we accept anyone who obeys the teachings of christ regardless of anything. I am a member of the sold out movement. ICC. If you follow what the gospel teaches, and you obey what Christ commanded you are a christian.
You people are all smart...well instead of saying what Kip should of done you should come out too church ICC I'm a souled out disciple and so is Kip were both on a mission to serve GOD not men! If your a disciple quarreling then I am sent by GOD to rebuke you 1 Timothy 1:3-6 John 13:34
Please, as a disciple I think you should just pray for God to show you that division is sin, when he separated and started this new movement , all the churches were called to pray for him, for his repentance. It was a Biblical rebuke from all the elders and teachers who were Kip's friends and who LOVE him. Everybody know that he didn't repent yet he is still calling himself the world leader. We're still praying for him.
Kip had the perfect chance to tell the world to Share the Kingdom on TV - for free! Why didn't he? If he knew the world would be destroyed the next day - wouldnt he tell the reporter this to save as much souls as possible? If you truly believe what you say - you would welcome the CBS reporter and say that these people who left the church are in sin and revellious - but he did not have the courage to say this because he knows he is a Charlatan and an Anti-christ
The Apostle Paul was also a great guy. He is the same guy who cut of timothys penis tip, the same guy who kept a slave that did not belong to him, the same guy that killed quite a few people. You want me to believe a guy like this who basicalled turned a mere man into something cosmic and heavenly.
I am so glad God freed me from this man...I was in it for 3 years and never felt so bound...I rebelled for 5 years and was just doing whatever kind of sin I could get into, and God brought me back to Him and I found freedom in His Son Jesus Christ, not a church. Church is to come together and learn and fellowship, not to see how many new members you can "baptize". Scary stuff. I am am free in Christ and have a safe and beautiful relationship with HIM! I just stick to the Bible, that's it!! :)
God bless your out,,,I was one of the first people on our campus to alert other Christians groups to stay away from these folks. I had gone to three of their Bible studies and noticed immediately the flawed message they where spreading. I just glad that you have the True Savior in you life Jesus Christ.
How sad that because of him, many had renounced to the faith, or had become bitter and most of the time leaving the movement with strong feelings of guiltiness. I've heard all this stories of brain-washing and other horrible testimonies, and my heart aches. I am a disciple of Jesus i study the Bible (maybe I was lucky that I was taught the "principles" as a doctrine) and learn to know Jesus, it was Him who transformed my life, not the church.
I really never understood the whole thing about who was the world leader and all the hierarchy. I think I just felt content to enjoy my christian life. I DID suffered from manipulation in the relationship with my Boyfriend who is my husband now, tho I was convinced that Jesus would reveal if we are meant to be together or not, not this people but God. He did. I did not leave the church b/c as I said before it was for Jesus that I became a disciple not for the people.
SO unfortunately that KIP doesn't understand that He is NOT GOD. Hope he can repent one day and he humiliates like the Bible calls us which he proclaims to follow and ask forgiveness to all the people he hurt in many different ways, including his own children
1 Timothy 2:3-4 says that God wants everyone to be saved, and in Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus tells his disciples to go and make disciples, baptizing ALL nations. In Mark 1 Jesus calls his disciples to be "fishers of men". Is that your purpose in life? Romans 6 says a disciple is a "slave to God". So if your not a slave to righteousness then your a slave to sin.
The ICOC is a systemically destructive group. God gives us free will and the leaders used that power to create a corporate structure to control spirituality... which just doesn't make much sense when you think about it. When the desire to get "fired up" about God doesn't come from your heart, but from you discipler... hearts will eventually harden. It's a shame how many people have been hurt.
Jim Jones, David Keresh, Kip Mckean all the same type of people...
All who defend him, I guess I can't blame you...it's not your fault. You are all brainwashed into believing the teachings of this church not just this man (maniac) hopefully, someday you'll wake up. My sister did....Thank the Lord!!!!! Get out now!
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that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
anticoc1 1 week ago
He dodges these reporters because he is a corrupted crook. I am going to expose this whole farce of an abusive church. McKean allows mind-controlled bullying. He knows it goes on and he is a weakling. You can tell him that he is a weak minded puss just like all of the punks he has running his criminal activity.....my then girlfriend brought me to her hell of a church (pun intended).....once they found out that I was Greek Orthodox, they attacked my girlfriend and I.....
anticoc1 1 week ago
He's like a deer caught in headlights...keep missing his elevator. LOL! Then he leaves his lady behind???
BrownishBunny 1 month ago
@BrownishBunny ....that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
anticoc1 1 week ago
@anticoc1 Hey dude. I totally understand. I bitterness will always be there, but more as a lesson. I completely understand the relationship restrictions. I was controlled in a similar way and considered 'prideful' for having my own opinions and perspective. I lost a potential relationship this way too. The good news is that you and I have escaped this black hole of idiocy. Those that remain, wish them luck...they need it. Even if they say \things are different now.' It's the same.
BrownishBunny 1 week ago
coward cad
ruk987654 2 months ago
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@ruk987654 that is because he is a dumb-ass! I would love to sit across the table from that asshole! His cronies all over this country try to run people's lives. My ex-girlfriend brought me to this hell and they did not accept me because I was Greek Orthodox...they think they are put here by God to tell us what to do....my girlfriend after a year and a half walked out on me because she believed their bullshit that she was going to hell for dating me
anticoc1 1 week ago
да он просто хам! уйти посреди разговора, даже не извинившись! и трус!
ruk987654 2 months ago
he did tell us which is the true church in the bible... Studying the bible with a disciple would help you understand that better.
NatisCole 4 months ago
If there really is a god why doesn't he/she just tell us which is the true church? I think this question will generate a lot of 'excuses' but no real good answers. Which in itself adds more evidence that there is no god or one that cares.
weezer996 4 months ago
@weezer996 Jesus Christ did tell us what the true Church is.
Transformers217 3 months ago
.Cont. Jesus says that his followers will be persecuted and these comments are evidence of that. Some of these comments are not at all helpful- the bible says to say only what is useful for building others up.. I know many were hurt and I don't deny that our churches may have often been controlling and legalistic, but many have repented, If you look at our church now, you will find a group of people who cling to god and his word and love one another. God Bless!
aeri001310 5 months ago
@aeri001310 This is not persecution, this comments are just criticism about a guy who bragged about having the biggest church that's all Kip is a hypocrite, he said that people in leadership positions could not have their kids leave the church, when his daughter deiced to leave, he resisted for a long time.
skoona08 1 month ago
@aeri001310 Most humans are capable of love and sacrifice. Not exclusive to your group. Sorry. Also, fear is used to control people by many ideologies. That is also not exclusive to ICOC. Jeez...no uniqueness...OMG!
BrownishBunny 1 month ago
I know many were hurt by the ways things were dealt with and the legalism and statistic focus of some people, but I know that the bible teaches baptism and repentance and to love one another and to love God and this is what icoc teaches. We are human and are not perfect, but through repentance, our churches have come along way from where we were in the nineties.
aeri001310 5 months ago
@aeri001310 AMEN! :)
Transformers217 3 months ago
@aeri001310 The people are mostly nice...However, I feel the people are lost and a grabbing onto anything to give them 'normalcy'...anything is better than facing loneliness of the reality of their own lives? They are kept busy...so no time to worry or feel bad? Like a mouse on a little mouse treadmill.
BrownishBunny 1 month ago
You'll be judged by God and not Kip Mckean.
richard14ize 6 months ago
Brainwashing bastards. I read the Bible and worship God my way. Screw them they're all about numbers not people. Pharisees with a few good people fed with guilt trips. If God wants you in heaven so be it. Egotisitical leaders.
richard14ize 6 months ago
@richard14ize I Agree! Part of Cult 19 years. Finally got the boot and then got saved!
mhuemmer 5 months ago
They are a bunch of parasites. They lure you in with friendship. But you don't know anything until you're in. You ruin your life to support them. I have looked to God my whole life for strength. But this church reeks with pride from their leaders. They turn you into a robot. They don't care.
richard14ize 6 months ago
@sk00tchies Your faith is in a man and I am not talking about God, Jesus -- I'm talking about KcKean. Visit reveal.org and realize what is happening.
ekey64 6 months ago
@sk00tchies Hi,
Josette28s 7 months ago
@sk00tchies Careful -- I am a former member of the San Francisco cult -- You were told not to browse the web looking for articles, etc. about the church, no?
ekey64 7 months ago
I am a member of this church, but I have to tell you that this man IS CRAZY; certain people in this church got all caught up in the "legalism" of the rules and, unfortunately, HURT MANY PEOPLE! Our MAIN FOCUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE HEART! @ sk00tchies...I am not bitter, but I am still hurt, as are some very close people I know, about how some practices were conducted! In my opinion, the "old way" seemed like no room for human error was allowed; THANK GOD for the exposure in the Kriete letter!
TheMSB1978 8 months ago
I was a member of this organization 97 thru 99, untill I got married and o boy it is hard the get out without some kind of guilt, but since they couldnot showme on the BIBLE all their rules the rest was easy; if the true set me free why should I be force to join their club, if salvation it's free and by Faith, who needs that kind of congregation, I may not be rigth but they are still wrong trying to control by fear most of their members, GOD IS LOVE, and He Wants you to be happy and FREE.
kaballeroet 9 months ago
Well, the real church for Christ would not put bondage on their people like these people do. They say if your not part of this church you will go to hell. Another thing is that you have to live among them in order to be saved. They are brain washers and money hungry hypocrites. Shut out if your from Fort Lauderdale I now live in Arizona.
MonaandShaun1 9 months ago
My ex wife bought into this church back in 1997, It was "the Greater Morgantown Church of Christ" in Morgantown WV, Led by Mitch Wike..I could see right through them from day 1 . They are absolutely the reason for my divorce from my wife. When they saw i wasnt gonna be a sheep, they plain and simply turned her against me. In hindsight they did me a great service. But thats the kinda thing they are about. Money grubbing and mind control.
Harrisononthesack 10 months ago 2
i was in this group in the early 80's.rick bauer was our preacher in tucson ,arizona.when he was found out he left town like a chicken.but for me the damage had already been done.i've been on medication for many years now.that was in 1982-83.i'm doing better now but its been ruff.
abulakle 10 months ago
i was a member of this church in fort laudardale florida from 90-93 got very rough on people! any member from that era from fort ludardale and south florida I will be happy to hear from them!
tonymejia10@yahoo.com
TONYMEJIA70 11 months ago
Perhaps he shouldn't dodge the reporter and facxe the questions, perhaps he was afraid as Peter when questioned, who knows ( I don't for sure) but so what? Were someone fool enough to keep his/her hope in a man and not in God? ...
ponchopilas 1 year ago
It's funny how people who called themselves christians act like the jews in times of our Lord, waiting for someone to restore the Kingdom of God. I truly believe that is the fellowship through the Word that brings discipleship, that brings salvation (of course we all need to get baptized). But Evil is so smart that he will always find a way to stop for a while God's movement. And we ought to see that everyday and avoid falling into provocations and misleading conduct. ...
ponchopilas 1 year ago
IT DOES NOT MATTER ABOUT WHAT ANYONE SAYS OR DOES. GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WILL JUDGE US IN THE END. SO IS KIP (OR ANYONE ELSE) GOING TO BE THE REASON YOU TURN AWAY FROM GOD. IN THE END IT IS YOU AND GOD, NOT ANYONE ELSE.
7558518 1 year ago
@7558518 How convenient. God is omnipotent and omnipresent, yet when a specific person does bad things under the guise of God or religion, it's not God or religion's fault, just that particular person. So, no matter what, God and religion are completely separated from all wrongdoing. Fuck that. Believing that is the BIBLICAL definition of STUPID.
PhoenixEJ1 11 months ago
It seems that the so-called "church of christ" is the one I had contact with when I was in "community" college. I was eating my pizza alone one day when some guy came up to me and asked me if I wanted to join a Bible study. I thought I'd see how it is. It was a superficial and short talk on the Bible, but that led to more of those talks until I saw this particular dude who eventually told me in a Bible talk to put on a line he drew when I was saved and when I was baptized by physical water. Cont
AthosAmo 1 year ago
@AthosAmo I had my salvation before my physical-water-baptisms (the first was a sprinkle- unbiblical, I know. The second was full immersion) and he told me I had it wrong. He then quoted from verses that seemed to say that one must be physically baptised to be saved. I didn't agree with him and we argued for a long time. Eventually, I told him: "Look. If you're trying to get me to join your church, it's not gonna happen." He reacted as if he wasted his time and gave up interest in arguing. Cont.
AthosAmo 1 year ago
@AthosAmo And this was over a series of weeks (a few days a week I met with one of them). Later, I confronted the guy who invited me to the first superficial Bible talk with them in the first place, for not telling me up-front his intentions- and he gave me some invalid excuse that I forget now. I think it was that he "was going to tell" me. Right. About a year later, I saw the other dude in the university and he acted as if he didn't see me. I shook my head for him to see. Freaking heretic.
AthosAmo 1 year ago
And I want my "contribution" (forced handover of portion of salary) back - NOW!
DocBrewster 1 year ago
Does anyone know Miles Mason - an Australian leader in this cult - been in it since late 80's - just wondering if he repented of his mistaken ways?
DocBrewster 1 year ago
@DocBrewster I knew him, I haven't seen him since the church days though.
kittley1984 11 months ago
This mob are some SERIOUSLY slick players - i was in it for 9 months and they make it almost impossible to disagreee with their interpreattion of the bible - which they twist to their own agenda - i remember members literally waiting til everybody else in the house of "brothers" was asleep and at 1 am in the morning - sneaking out a window and doing the bolt like a concentration camp prisoner from a gulag - leaving behind personal property - never to be seen again.
A full-on control cult.
DocBrewster 1 year ago
I am sorry, but I cannot understand you because of misspelled words and lack of punctuation. Kip McKean and all of his incarnations (ICC, ICOC, Boston International Church of Chirst, Empire City Church) are versions of the same cult. I am sure there are wonderful born again churches, but this is not one of them. This is a controlling, brain washing group of psychopaths.
lovinglife816 1 year ago
They tried to get me to join as a student at NYU. They are banned from over 150 college campuses because of their coercive and manipulative tactics. Stay way from these people!!
lovinglife816 1 year ago
The more I think of this group the more I think of how they drove me away from God. They teach dependence on them not on God. Every method they use to bring people to God is deceptive and manipulative.
richard14ize 1 year ago
They have'nt changed much . They turn you into a dependent personality unable to make decisions on your own. While their personality is narcisstic and controlling. They hide behind the constitution and the freedom of religion in this country. I wish the FBI would investigate their finances and put the leaders in jail.
richard14ize 1 year ago
Don't give on God because of this church. They are controversial and damage people emotionally. They are'nt as perfect and righteous as they think. Your salvation is up to you not a church.
richard14ize 1 year ago
They use more psychological techniques that are'nt in the bible. They are too literal. Just because it's in the bible once does'nt make it absolute. Many phrases are examples and parables open to wide interpretation. Look at the antichurch websites before you join. If they know you're informed they won't push as much.
richard14ize 1 year ago
DEFINITELY A CULT. DEFINITELY INVOLVED IN MIND CONTROL, ISOLATION, GUILT, FEAR, THREATS. THIS IS SPIRITUAL ABUSE.
halideion 1 year ago
I still am greatful to god for Kip and Randy for giving the insight they had to start the church in Boston when they did. Because I was reached out to and was taught the Bible not just read it but learned how to study it. I was catholic but didn't know who Jesus really was. I thank God for Gary Donavan and Paul Wissman For reaching out to me in 87 only 18yrs old. It wasn't brain washed it was living for christ not for the world and I still teach and preach to day in a baptiest church in SC Amen.
cnasin1 1 year ago
@cnasin1 I'm glad you turned your life around. I met Al Baird and never met Kip. The church was too intense for me. I was in campus ministry which is the most controversial. The teen ministry is good too. Maybe If I was in a another ministry things would have been different. By the time I left I was burned out. If people like this church and its style good for them.
richard14ize 1 year ago
@cnasin1 - I can identify with that too!
Good on yeah. Keep the faith going!
saikoza1 1 year ago
@cnasin1 I think they should be locked up! And they can pay me compensation, and pay for my medication they can also reimburse my parents all the money that they gave to this mess of a "Church"
kittley1984 11 months ago 2
Comment removed
richard14ize 1 year ago
so i would throw this out to all you mammoth hunters out there - instead of attacking, why not correct with the purpose of healing. this is a very biblical concept! Mt 18.15. "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.. " And rejoice that you have brothers who are willing to remain even though they are continuously accused of wrongdoing.
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
i say this to acknowledge past sin. but i don't think it's the church that people are attacking. i considered any injuries incurred from humans to be secondary to the impact made by the church - and, not to say the ICC is the only church preaching the truth, but.. i have never met one that was really committed through and through, as the ICC is. VERY imperfect, but also very committed. i worry that many who attack the ICC don't seem to know their bible, or even make an attempt.
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
i think it is totally unfair for a church that did not commit those sins to be attacked as if it did. it is important for accusations to be up to date. it is true that injuries last a long time, but that doesn't mean if you were shot in vietnam then it's ok to bust out your piece in public and start taking out bystanders.
as i have been in the church for 10 years i have felt some of the remnants of abuse. there was zeal in some of the young leaders (as is common in any organization, i think)
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
richard - i totally respect your experience and i'm sorry all that stuff has happened to you. we have actually talked about a lot of those things as a church and been very clear they were wrong. but i think it's important to realize: 1) the abuses didn't occur in the whole church. it's an INTERNATIONAL church. which means a lot of people, and a lot of mistakes. 2) after exposure things really changed in the places the were bad. if the churches have repented, then they have repented.
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
@BlueCanary82 Not good enough - give me back $200,ooo of lost earnings and maybe u will be forgiven.
DocBrewster 1 year ago
Some of the stuff you read on the internet may be dated but it did happen. It shows what happens when churches become corrupted by a movement. There are exaggerations but most of what is said has a sliver of truth to it.
richard14ize 1 year ago
Galatians 5:13 You my brothers were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature, rather serve one another in love.
richard14ize 1 year ago
These nuts did a lot of damage to a lot of people. Most who left are more cynical and miserable than before. I believe they are saved and will answer for their sins when judged by God. Fallaway from a cult, church whatever is not wrong. But walking away from Christ and going back to your old self is worse.
richard14ize 1 year ago
@richard14ize Bullshit! - if christ was real there would be no such deceptions - this cult inadvertantly showed a lot of people what a load of crap ALL churches are!
DocBrewster 1 year ago
All I'm saying is that the former church of christ made me cynical of " true christians" I still have ptsd from all rantings and ravings about being a disciple and pressuring people to join. People see through the sales pitch. My last discipler is still in and a preacher in the ICC. I don't doubt his sincerety but I left because I could'nt handle the pressure. 20years ago I lost two of my family in a short time and it screwed me up so I needed friends who happened to be christians.
richard14ize 1 year ago
Here's my stance on the ICC or ANY church - anyone who puts their faith in people, or tries to make others put their faith in them, IS in a cult.
Anyone who puts their faith in Jesus is NOT in a cult. It's based on the individual. I am 'part of the ICC' but the term is so meaningless. I actually read my bible so there's not much worry about being deceived by people. (Acts 17.11)
Can somebody be a christian apart from ICOC? SURE!!! Can somebody be one apart from Christ? NO!!!
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
@BlueCanary82 I do not understand where all the hate is coming from. I do understand that there were people that wronged other people in in the church but if we publisized any church, you would find that. This church has taught me about family, love, reading my bible, accountabillity, and I would not have it any other way. I have been away for 7yrs now. I am praying they plant a church in Pensacola FL. I was with the church for 13yrs all over the country. Sure I was talked to harshly sometimes.
awannabe1 1 year ago
but 95% of the time it was nothing but love. I now go to a mainstream baptist church and there is only about 25% love and NO accountability.
awannabe1 1 year ago
(cont from @richard)
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Eph 4.5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Yes you do have to be part of Christ. It's the only church in the Bib, started by God, which the early christians were trying to hold together through the holy spirit. Sin and false doctrine attempted to divide it from the beginning. If a church has the wrong center, it's false.
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
John 15
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
kashvenali - easy to brand people huh? i am a part of this church (as far as it agrees with god). we do not endorse kip mckean or his narcissim. we don't endorse manipulation, theft, lying, etc. we are human though and prone to all these things, and so are you, and it's why we need jesus.
'once a cult always a cult' ??? when you stole something as a child, did you remain a thief? is there no forgiveness? shall i call you thief! thief! instead of your name?
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
richard14 - what is your view of the 1st century church then? We have classes on the 1st century church in which people read actual books. Internet banter isn't exactly the best source of information, ya know..
'you don't have to be in a church to be saved'
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
@BlueCanary82
U are correct but whan two or more are gathered together and also for the fellowship
u will get strength from each other in prayer
cnasin1 1 year ago
@BlueCanary82 Internet is BY FAR the best source of information! Every bullshit opinion is immediately exposed by logical contradiction. Whereas the bible doesnt allow critical analysis of itself!
DocBrewster 1 year ago
Once a cult...always a cult. How many times does this ICOC have to re-invent
themselves to fool the masses? Screwed up and misled a whole generation of
followers? NO PROBLEM, just re-invent and add water. Now Kip's enjoying a
beachfront mini-mansion in the Palisades and Ivy league educations, thanks to
clever accounting. Modern pastor version of the the Cadillac on the
congregation's dime. Trust in God people...not an ego-driven, self-proclaimed messiah with a mullet. Scary..
kashvenali 1 year ago
@kashvenali He should be put in Jail!!!!!
kittley1984 11 months ago
@kittley1984 paul was put in a jail. maybe preaching will put Kip there :P
BaptismOfMoonlight 11 months ago
There will be a revival someday when God leads the exmembers out of the wilderness of this degenerate world to form a better church. There are more people outside the church 250,000 than in it. They are the strong christians who live by the spirit and will teach the "works" christians the joy of being free in Christ.
richard14ize 1 year ago
youtube.com/watch?v=X7O00CEjhAY
mykalgylmeta 1 year ago
Where are all the old people in the church? They all left. Most of what they do is like pep rallies. You can't live like a college kid forever.
richard14ize 1 year ago
Don't be fooled by your emotions. This church is not based on biblical truth. It makes a lot of stuff up. Their version of the 1st century church is'nt accurate. This is the 21th century. The apostles witnessed jesus that's why they were martyred. You can be christlike but not christ. I was in for a year, my personality changed. They prey on the young and naive. If it's not in the bible don't believe. You don't have to be in a church to be saved. All churches can be corrupted.
richard14ize 1 year ago
I was in the BCC for a year now ICC.The leaders get a tax free salary, a tax free house, live in good neighborhoods. The followers live in slums and devote all their time to the church. Their careers, families and studies suffer and that's why they leave. What's in it for them? Nothing but giving tax free contributions to the church. Classic ponzi scheme on a biblical scale. The leaders think about ways to manipulate people all day long while the followers pay the bills.
richard14ize 1 year ago
@richard14ize youtube.com/watch?v=X7O00CEjhAY
mykalgylmeta 1 year ago
Comment removed
richard14ize 1 year ago 3
@richard14ize youtube.com/watch?v=X7O00CEjhAY
mykalgylmeta 1 year ago
@richard14ize I encountered the group back in '02. I almost needed to go to the phycho ward emergency room. Thank god! I had the help of good friends to get me away from them. YES THEY ARE A CULT, they use cult techniques. They harass, and they threaten. I encountered some crazy behavior among the members. May this serve as a warning to others!
theman4130 1 year ago
The ICOC is for the most part a den of thieves... with a few good hearts thrown in, but the good ones not in position of power or influence. (it's too theatening to ,leadership) I was a member for 17 years and have been out for 6 years. I know more people now outside the church with true integrity than I ever knew inside the church.
boblob2003 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@boblob2003 .youtube.com/watch?v=X7O00CEjhAY
mykalgylmeta 1 year ago
The ICOC treated the church as a social club & everyone eventually put their faith on each other & not on God. There's a lot of persecution out there on the internet & people are so easy to believe every single thing they see. If there is anyone to blame it is the lukewarm leaders & members of the ICOC that 4got that their relationship w/ God comes first b4 over ANYTHING & ANYONE(family, friends, career, & even ur own life). People, do your research before you all bash someone you don't know
vintrexx 1 year ago
I honestly dunno where/how people came to the conclusion that Kip leads a cult. Kip is only a man & he is a sinner & so is EVERY single person out there! The only difference that sets Kip & the devoted disciples of Jesus apart from the World is that they have all repented of their sins & do their very best to live according to what the Bible says. The ICOC fell apart b/c of people's sin, not b/c of Kip McKean. The ICOC also fell part b/c they relied on Kip(and the leaders) & not on God
vintrexx 1 year ago
yeah i agree people r just human and make mistakes just like pedophiles and sociopaths
kittley1984 1 year ago
i will find u one day! now that a promise i can keep!!!!!!!!!!!
kittley1984 1 year ago
Wh o cares if they have changed the damage cant be undone! kip IS A FRAUD!
kittley1984 1 year ago
True but he will still burn in hell, even though i dont believe i hell.... but he does!
kittley1984 1 year ago
Baptism of Moonlight- It is your life and your choice (as Friends1434 put it)
However, keep in mind that we are only human and humans aren't perfect. The International Church of Christ is a group of people and it is more important to follow God and his word than a group of people. right?
jean44077 1 year ago
@jean44077 And what if ur a child have no choice?? what then? U have no idea what he has done to people!
kittley1984 1 year ago
Comment removed
jean44077 1 year ago
I guess my point with this whole thing is that it's not that simple. After a recent experience I truly do believe that the International Church of Christ is a cult. I do not, however, believe that being a part of a group of people that follow God and his word means you are in a cult.
jean44077 1 year ago
8.
any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective
9.
of or pertaining to a cult.
10.
of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult movie.
jean44077 1 year ago
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.
the members of such a religion or sect.
jean44077 1 year ago
jean44077 1 year ago
In reference to "BaptismofMonnlight's" definition of a cult as "yeah what is a cult. A cult is something that follows something as god. And yeah, we are a cult because we follow God and his word."
I read this and thought it probably isn't the best summary, so here's a dictionary definition... (next post)
jean44077 1 year ago
BaptismOfMoonlight...I do not know who you are. I would like to explain to you but I prefer not to..My previous post. It's your decision what you do with your life is yours. Thanks
Friends1434 1 year ago
@Friends1434 its fine- I have been a member for about 3 years now- never been forced into anything, nor has anyone else in the several churches spanning 5 states have either.
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
I have many situations happenned while I was going to that church. Now, I have my life back...All I have to say STAY AWAY..It's ultimately you have to decide for yourselve You have to ask yourselve questions and be clear mind. They said that when we leave; its sad and not make outside the church. Well, I am happy and peaceful in my life. Kip and leaders going to face God and be accountable how many lives they mislead and mind controlling, money etc....Kip left church started another church.
Friends1434 1 year ago
@Friends1434 stop twisting stuff. WHat does he do wicked with money. You dont see him living some rich life. Look at pictures of him. Is he all decked out, doe she drive a benz and live in a million dollar house. No. I doubt he ever even paid over a hundred for a pair of pants or shirt. stay away from the chruch why?
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
At least be a man and let your wife get in the elevator first, he dipped out and left his wife to fend for herself.
halcyon180 1 year ago
uh if you have to ask or question it yeah its a cult,
khamodaz 1 year ago
@khamodaz That does not even makes sense. You know how many christians question he bible even after being saved. They dont control a thing about you. They tell you the bible standard and thats it. nothin more and nothing less. listen to his sermons for yourself people on caicc . com.
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
@BaptismOfMoonlight Well you should read the bible i have heard him speak and was a disciple and a leader and preached and i regret every minute i subjected or introduced people to this cult. he has nothing to do with Christianity just uses the bible and Christianity for his gain if you seek the holy spirit for truth you will see what a sheep in wolves clothing he is and how the same bible he uses exposes him for teaching a Gospel that is different than what was preached as apostle paul said
khamodaz 1 year ago
I was a part of this group for 8 years. Kip McKean is fecal matter.....from a dog.
billcalvery 1 year ago
Kip was just a pawn used by the CIA. As with all of those they discard the pawn once it has performed it's service
sickasso72 1 year ago
I have been in 'the ICOC' for 9 years. I joined it as a freshman in college. Yes the people were a bit odd. Saying 'come on' during a sermon and some leadercentric views. There was less love after I was baptized.
BUT. I have never met another church that talked about sin and tried to help me unearth the tomb in my heart. OR a group that was so determined to repent. The church will always spring back, because it is centered on the Bible. Sin? Yes, plenty. But that is from people, not god. G Bls!
BlueCanary82 1 year ago
I was a part of the L.A. church of christ and "fell away" as they like to say.. It is without question a cult.
psykick77 1 year ago 2
@psykick77 yeah what is a cult. A cult is something that follows something as god. And yeah, we are a cult because we follow God and his word.
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
@BaptismOfMoonlight 1.People are put in physical or emotionally distressing situations;
2.Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3.They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader or group;
4.They get a new identity based on the group;
5.They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled
Yea, their a cult.
psykick77 1 year ago
First of all no on is put in physical or mental or spiritual distressing situations. 2. What problem is that (a cult??).
3. We act as Chirst would. Any one who is a christian or wanting to learn is welcomed. 4. What do you mean they get a new identity? 5. No one is kept from anyone and there is no limit to information lol.
A cult is a group who worships something as god. So yeah ICC/ICOC/COC is a cult because we do in fact worship God ( Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
BaptismOfMoonlight 11 months ago
@BaptismOfMoonlight wrong, cult control, churches do not
speedskate2010 11 months ago
@BaptismOfMoonlight To your first of all..... That is a complete load of shite! Many people were mentally harmed by this so called "Church" me being one of them and I know a number of other people who needed medication and therapy after their experience, I'll grant you it may of changed now but back in the day it was absolutely horrible. If I believed God exists I think he would of been completely ashamed by this mess.
kittley1984 11 months ago
a really cunt........
gatolocoverga152 1 year ago
God sure pays well, eh Kip?
Brothers and Sisters, I want to preach to you today on something that hit me like lighting one day....THE POWER OF SELF!
It's absolutely changed my life! Since I no longer tithe, I have more money in the bank! Since I no longer pray, I have more time for my wife and kids! And since I no longer go to church, I'm much better rested on Sunday!
So Brothers and Sisters, throw off those chains from the big invisible man in the sky and believe in yourself!
Amen.
volumecorps 2 years ago
I have done that most of my life, and I can honestly say that it has given me NOTHING in return.
saikoza1 2 years ago 3
What I learned and now know is that this church grows spritituallly by doing what their told to do, having discipling time with their discipling partner rather than just taking it up to God. And so it becomes work salvation rather than the holy spirit taking control. I can say that this church had made me feel bitter and lost bcoz of the things they would say. Although, it is God's calling to repent and be baptized and be a disciple of God.
630hellokitty 2 years ago
Because they have a way of making you feel guilty that if you don't do what they ask you to do, they make you feel guilty and that you weren't right with God. I do thank this church for they do some good things. If it wasn't for this church I would have never had become a Christian, but they do have their own mechanism to control people's mind and life style. I am now with another church that still believes in making disciples, but is not as controlling as this church.
630hellokitty 2 years ago
Ok just realized u posted more LOL. I'm glad to read that u continued going to church & praising the Lord. Amen. God bless all of you!! I went to the ICOC for many years & left quite damaged & bitter as well. I fell away from God for many years...but last year I found an AWESOME church where by the grace of GOD, I was saved. No mind control, & no people pleasing...all about GOD!
malaszczuk 1 year ago
I got baptized into this church in Jan 2009. The church is now called City of Angels Christian Church in LA. The problem was when I got reached out, I don't live in LA. So, about a month I got baptized, my family and I was asked to moved to LA as it was part of giving up everything for God and is "counting the cost" to be a disciple of God. My family couldn't make that decision bcoz it just wasn't in our heart to do it. So, we lived with guilt and doubts bcoz of the things they were saying.
630hellokitty 2 years ago
WOW, I thought they had left their old mentality behind...but 2009? that's pretty recent. I want u to know that Kip teaches that he is the founder of the 1 true church. Any church that teaches this doctrine is a cult. If u hve accepted Jesus in your heart, well then Amen that God used the ppl that reached out to u as vessels, however, U have the option to go to a church other than City of Angles, as long as the bible is faithfully taught! but they will not give u that option bcuz it is a CULT!
malaszczuk 1 year ago
@malaszczuk no he does not- he teaches that Jesus started the church and he is a disciple preaching the message int his day and age- just like everyone else- even the person who has been a disciple for 2 days. all equal
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
I was raised from birth in the ICOC movement, and I can say from first hand experience that the ICOC was NOT a movement of God and Kip McKean is a total piece of shit.
PhoenixEJ1 2 years ago
hi dear. Maybe you dont know but Kip Mc Kean was announced NO BROTHER.Aand was expelled from ICOC.Some seven eight years ago. For reasons which probablly trouble you. ICOC actually maked some radical steps with those who abused some people. Christian people didn t done this, some didnt even know about this..Only very individuals... so on you side I will be upset on those who misstrited you.. not on all Church..(maybe more asJesus teach- pray for those who prosicute you, attitude) God bless
KISTOVI 1 year ago
@KISTOVI There's nothing about this shit you can tell me that I don't already know. I was born into this church and left it when I was 18 and still have contact with people that go at 26. I know more about this cult than 99.9% of the people who ever attended. I was around for the Henry Kriet letter or whatever his name was. I started out in Gainesville, then moved to Boston. I was there from close to the beginning. I know Kip is no longer a part of it. It does not change my statement at all.
PhoenixEJ1 11 months ago
@PhoenixEJ1 Yup pretty much the same story as me.
kittley1984 11 months ago
I hope he forgives me&my cruelty, not for me, but for himself. I don't want him burdened w/ pain I caused him. I want him to be free, but if he couldn't forgive me, that is between him and God and NO ONE has the right to judge if he would be right or not w/ God. NO ONE! I think of a line from the movie, Dangerous Liasons (sp!). Vanity and joy cannot coexist. Some Christians take so much pride in being so elite, so elect,&miss out on the endless joy of just being loved by the Greatest Lover
starbugster 2 years ago
you know, i wrote all this stuff a long time ago, but what matters to me is that Kip is not trustworthy, and he and his followers hurt me. i have zero faith in the god i was trained to believe in...but i know where i stand, and i am glad to be free of religion.
mymemnoch 2 years ago
mymemnoch, when to let go. I may be "lost", but my Creator has shown me that what delights Him/Her is deeply appreciating the Handiwork of His Hands, esp each precious human soul. I lost someone I cared for to ICOC. I was bitter for very long, years. In time I let go of my anger/betrayal. I can genuinely say, bless him, now. I also now know, in my heart, not just head, that he did care, and never intended to hurt me so. I can now forgive what happened, my hurting him, too.
starbugster 2 years ago
I don't know what this man would say abt ICOC now (no longer in contact)No church should hurt/rip off people, or be so into doctrine it forgets how dear people are to God. I also don't believe that ICOC is a cult, but any church that robs a person of his/her personhood as I was robbed, allowed myself to be robbed, isn't where I want to be, ever. I saw an article abt ICOC and Kip leaving very recently.I was curious.I hope the man I knew is very happy and healthy, with or w/o ICOC.
starbugster 2 years ago
I now have left Calvary, as I think any church that judges other churches is what Jesus spoke of abt Pharisees (sp!), straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Sometimes this ICOC member was kind, sometimes flippant and arrogant, sometimes beaten down and burdened. I judged his experience, but was blind to the way my world was shrinking due to CC's teaching. I'm glad ICOC is changing and open dialog is going on, that it now admits that at least some other churches also have true believers.
starbugster 2 years ago
I have just been reading some of the comments abt the ICOC. When a man I worked with ($ I rented from his family) got involved in early 1990's, my strong impression was that this church did believe it was the only true Christian church. I had just started to go to another evangelical church;at times he invited me to try his church, and other times he argued w/ me abt my lack of devotion to God. Unfortunately, I went to Calvary Chapel, and things they told me really scared me for him & his family
starbugster 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I used to go to ICOC in Indianapolis and in Columbus, OH. The church's ideals get so so fucked up and twisted once you get introduced into management/house church leader. Very glad I'm no longer with that church.(With a more sane one now)
TheJoseph4774 2 years ago
he's nothing but a business man selling a product that costs 10% of each member's paychecks, he's good at what he does and if your stupid and naive enough to think that he is from GOD then stay ignorant and continue making him a rich man you dumbass
berjo10 2 years ago
you know what Kip McSlut I sometimes dream of tracking you down and trying to give u the pain my mental illness has brought me thanx to u! Thank you for completely destroying my life before it even began! And taking so much money from my family so u can live like a god! Luckily i dont believe in god anymore but if i did i would believe in hell and im sure Lucifer has a place for you by his side!
kittley1984 2 years ago
i don't blame you..i was a member from 1993-94..i regretted it..they were rotten.
gbilios 2 years ago
im with you. eff him, and his church. i hope you found some peace.
mymemnoch 2 years ago
Kip Mckean never claimed that he is God, he is just someone who loves Him dearly and is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure things are done His way! I highly admire and respect this man. People who say bad things about him will one day have to answer to God themselves. People can learn a lot from Kip and his sermons. I am one of his biggest fans!! This world is a lot better place because of men like him!!! He has touched countless lives through this teaching of Biblical principles
HGarach 2 years ago
Wow, people. Kip is not even a part of the ICOC for years now. The church has changed and that is why Kip was taken out and went and started his own other church.
mreesespiecesk 2 years ago
The ICC(International Church of Christ) is even worse ICOC. More exclusive than Mormons! Gotta give they guy credit for analyzing human weaknesses and exploiting them. These Anti-Christs use the old break you down & build you back up and fear tactics used by all dicktators.
A the dumbest of the dumb are Kip McKeans prey and your "special contribution" pays for his golf clubs and vacation homes. Suckers
TPsynth 2 years ago 2
how's that mansion in the Palisades,
Kipster? Guess megolomania has it
perks, eh?
kashvenali 2 years ago
It's all a numbers game with this clown, it wasn't the church's fault for the abuse and whatnot, it was him and his shoddy leaders that he tried to mold in his own image. Dude you're not Jesus!
tobiasoswald 2 years ago
Absolutely correct! So many people (including Kip, IMO) thought the Kipster was making Chiristlike disciples, when in reality he was preying on victims and making dime-store verions of Stalin!
EdM021 2 years ago
when i was involved with the cult i remember people being viciously demoted and in many cases thrown out of the church..if an individual was renting he'd be kicked out on the street as punishment..
gbilios 2 years ago
I consider myself lucky in that I was in a zone of the Boston CoC that was on an even keel. The next zone over, the zone leader (male, of course) was seducing young male disciples! He was demoted, but the sexual squalor was NOT mentioned!! And I consider myself very lucky in that I got out just before Kip really ramped up his "reconstruction" craze, which, it sounds to me, you had to live through. :(
EdM021 2 years ago
People need to realise this was a long time ago. The ICOC has changed on sooo many levels and Kip is not even a part of it anymore. The church repented and it's NOT a cult.
ruvvg 2 years ago 9
@ruvvg
So do they accept that Christians of other denominations can be saved?
quemacha 1 year ago
@quemacha we accept anyone who obeys the teachings of christ regardless of anything. I am a member of the sold out movement. ICC. If you follow what the gospel teaches, and you obey what Christ commanded you are a christian.
BaptismOfMoonlight 1 year ago
It is still a cult. It doesn't allow women to marry non-Christian people. That is a fundamental not in the bible.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
@TheRadicalRyushin youtube.com/watch?v=X7O00CEjhAY
mykalgylmeta 1 year ago
That just leads me to the home page.
TheRadicalRyushin 1 year ago
This video was taken when Kip was the world sector leader for the ICOC.
Since that time, he has left the ICOC and formed a new movement called the ICC.
The people from ICOC say Kip is wrong and vice versa.
They're very lucky that most people don't go to church - people belonging to a church are the most closed-minded people there are on the planet.
HoleyDiver 2 years ago
Gal 5:5
This video is great! It clearly shows his courage, honor and love for Jesus, the church and his wife - who he ditched... ha.
DoofinDorfer 2 years ago
You people are all smart...well instead of saying what Kip should of done you should come out too church ICC I'm a souled out disciple and so is Kip were both on a mission to serve GOD not men! If your a disciple quarreling then I am sent by GOD to rebuke you 1 Timothy 1:3-6 John 13:34
DJReSS 2 years ago
Please, as a disciple I think you should just pray for God to show you that division is sin, when he separated and started this new movement , all the churches were called to pray for him, for his repentance. It was a Biblical rebuke from all the elders and teachers who were Kip's friends and who LOVE him. Everybody know that he didn't repent yet he is still calling himself the world leader. We're still praying for him.
girasun 2 years ago
Kip had the perfect chance to tell the world to Share the Kingdom on TV - for free! Why didn't he? If he knew the world would be destroyed the next day - wouldnt he tell the reporter this to save as much souls as possible? If you truly believe what you say - you would welcome the CBS reporter and say that these people who left the church are in sin and revellious - but he did not have the courage to say this because he knows he is a Charlatan and an Anti-christ
abrahamseto22 2 years ago
I you really want the truth and to set yourself free search: The 1st Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.: The Council That Created Jesus, Part 1
Right here on YouTube
maestrooncue 2 years ago
The Apostle Paul was also a great guy. He is the same guy who cut of timothys penis tip, the same guy who kept a slave that did not belong to him, the same guy that killed quite a few people. You want me to believe a guy like this who basicalled turned a mere man into something cosmic and heavenly.
olh1152 3 years ago
I am so glad God freed me from this man...I was in it for 3 years and never felt so bound...I rebelled for 5 years and was just doing whatever kind of sin I could get into, and God brought me back to Him and I found freedom in His Son Jesus Christ, not a church. Church is to come together and learn and fellowship, not to see how many new members you can "baptize". Scary stuff. I am am free in Christ and have a safe and beautiful relationship with HIM! I just stick to the Bible, that's it!! :)
an15ha 3 years ago 2
God bless your out,,,I was one of the first people on our campus to alert other Christians groups to stay away from these folks. I had gone to three of their Bible studies and noticed immediately the flawed message they where spreading. I just glad that you have the True Savior in you life Jesus Christ.
Jimbo898 2 years ago
How sad that because of him, many had renounced to the faith, or had become bitter and most of the time leaving the movement with strong feelings of guiltiness. I've heard all this stories of brain-washing and other horrible testimonies, and my heart aches. I am a disciple of Jesus i study the Bible (maybe I was lucky that I was taught the "principles" as a doctrine) and learn to know Jesus, it was Him who transformed my life, not the church.
girasun 2 years ago 3
I really never understood the whole thing about who was the world leader and all the hierarchy. I think I just felt content to enjoy my christian life. I DID suffered from manipulation in the relationship with my Boyfriend who is my husband now, tho I was convinced that Jesus would reveal if we are meant to be together or not, not this people but God. He did. I did not leave the church b/c as I said before it was for Jesus that I became a disciple not for the people.
girasun 2 years ago
SO unfortunately that KIP doesn't understand that He is NOT GOD. Hope he can repent one day and he humiliates like the Bible calls us which he proclaims to follow and ask forgiveness to all the people he hurt in many different ways, including his own children
girasun 2 years ago 2
1 Timothy 2:3-4 says that God wants everyone to be saved, and in Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus tells his disciples to go and make disciples, baptizing ALL nations. In Mark 1 Jesus calls his disciples to be "fishers of men". Is that your purpose in life? Romans 6 says a disciple is a "slave to God". So if your not a slave to righteousness then your a slave to sin.
krazzyky 2 years ago
The ICOC is a systemically destructive group. God gives us free will and the leaders used that power to create a corporate structure to control spirituality... which just doesn't make much sense when you think about it. When the desire to get "fired up" about God doesn't come from your heart, but from you discipler... hearts will eventually harden. It's a shame how many people have been hurt.
grafikerna 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Jim Jones, David Keresh, Kip Mckean all the same type of people...
All who defend him, I guess I can't blame you...it's not your fault. You are all brainwashed into believing the teachings of this church not just this man (maniac) hopefully, someday you'll wake up. My sister did....Thank the Lord!!!!! Get out now!
laceygrace76 3 years ago