DOTW: Racial & Ethnic Identity in Anime & Manga.

[charmerkiki84]

that's what happened to the seven samurai

[errorsinconduct]

Are you MelinaPendulum's brother?

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@errorsinconduct

No, LOL.

[galacticmaui2]

DOTW: Your thoughts on the attempt of trying to revving dragon ball like new specials, Kai etc.

[hotwhire]

The problem though is unless they are stereotyped people will not associate certain characters with a certain race.. that purple haired girl in Black lagoon is Vietnamese I believe but people will argue she is white just because she isnt racially defined.. Yuroichi from Bleach, many of her fans will argue her being ANYTHING but black because she doesn't have curly hair or big lips. Jade from MK is NO DOUBT black but because shes not from real world Africa, she cant be black to some people.

[hotwhire]

The fact is Chatwin looks NOTHING like Goku.

[flipleg]

The Avatar world is as Asian as middle earth or westeros is European. If a person finds is strange to see a Asian in middle earth they should find it just as strange to find a European in the Avatar world.

[NorrisFoxx]

Yeah, for one the characters in dragon ball are just to damn bulky. You would have to hire body-builders in order to assemble a believable cast, and god NO ONE wants to see that. Are do something like xmen in which the designs took a few liberties, in this case another kind of dragon ball evolution. Identical outfits would just give the audience a craving for cheetos snacks.

[NorrisFoxx]

Sure, but I find it difficult to accept the idea that their ethnicities have to be explicitly referenced in other to understand what the author has intended for them. By your reasoning this concept can be applied to any number of manga/comic book characters who, despite their obvious appearances, are never really ethnically identified. And this is a visual medium after all.

[anatsusha09]

While I cant stand shitty movie called Dragon Ball Evolution,people need to realize that the Dragon Ball series was inspired by "Journey to the West" which is a Chinese novel....

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@anatsusha09

ONCE AGAIN, THE CHARACTERS IN DB ARE NOT CHINESE, REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER IT WAS INSPIRED BY, THEY'RE NOT CHINESE!!!!!! WHAT'S SO GODDAMN HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?!!!!!

[anatsusha09]

@OtakuASSEMBLE Never said DB was Chinese,what I meant was Akira Toriyama got his inspiration from a Chinese Novel....I was more talking to the people that was complaining about DB:Evolution should of had Japanese characters in it....I dont think a live action movie would do DB justice anyways since their was two previous live action movies before Dragon Ball Evolution of them was horrible....

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@anatsusha09

Agreed. I think their best bet would be a CG animated film along the quality of FF7 Advent Children.

[TheGloryXros]

@anatsusha09 Just cuz it's a Chinese novel doesn't mean the characters IN the novel are Chinese, unless specified. In this case, considering they're GODS & DEMIGODS, who you KNOW THOSE can't have specified races, then it's acceptable on why they didn't use Chinese people. Besides, AGAIN, DragonBall takes place on a FANTASIZED EARTH that has NO relation or resemblance of any real-life races. For all we know, they may not even CONSIDER race.

[NorrisFoxx]

Sorry about the repost...darn you computer..darn you to HEEELLLL!

[NorrisFoxx]

For more on why manga/anime characters are drawn as they are and why despite having various eye and hair colors are still understood rightfully so as japanese(unmarked) unless idicated otherwise(marked) I suggest reading the essay 'The Face of the Other' by Matt Thorn.

[NorrisFoxx]

...not to mention it's from japan - it is plausible to make the 'assumption' that they are also japanese based. Neing science fiction doesn't make it unrelatable. You wouldn't cast anyone but a white guy as superman, am I right ?

[NorrisFoxx]

Larry, I disagree with the idea of the ethnicities of DRAGON BALL's characters being undeterminative. For example, it can be understood by their names, way of dress, and in some cases origins that Chi Chi, Krillen, Yenshinhan, and Chaotzu are chinese based, while Muten Roshi, Yamucha, Yajirobe, and Bulma are based on japanese. As for saiyans their dark hair, its textures, dark eyes, and skin tones which ranges anywhere from fair to a brown tan in typical asaian fashion ...

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@NorrisFoxx

Yes, but what I'm saying is this. You can assume their race &/or nationality, but from a legitimate standpoint, you really don't know, because it's never stated. I'm talking about working both sides of the argument. On one hand, you can argue that they should've had an Asian cast, but on the other hand, you can argue that they didn't need one. You follow?

[hotwhire]

@NorrisFoxx Goku should be asian for the theme of the film, the vibe is traditional asian martial arts (dragon ball) a white guy being goku and having the name goku doesnt flow right with the atmosophere regardless how how fantasy driven it is. Vegeta however can be anyone that looks like him. No asian really looks like Vegeta.

[DionLaurent1]

Um, Avatar was made in America! And by white creators no less. Aang can be white! And most likely IS! Just because the art-style is anime, doesn't mean everyone in the show, is asian. What stupid rhetoric!

[hotwhire]

@DionLaurent1 Ang is most likely Tibetin in comparison but a white guy can do the character if he LOOKS like the character on paper. Any white kid can be Aang however a dark skinned person SHOULD be the water characters, not whites not asians and lol there are no inuit actors in hollywood (cause people were trying to say they should be) Casting should only be about ability to potray the character as the character and to look as close as possible, not be politically correct.

[DionLaurent1]

@hotwhire Nope, not at all. Their world isn't the same as our world. Hens, they can be whatever race the creators want them to be. Example the main argument regarding goku being white in the movie was because DB was made by Akira. So yeah, when people want to make that argument, it can be used back on them.

[hotwhire]

@DionLaurent1 Its not as if its void of any asian culture and DB does have races, its just the aliens that aren't identified the same way however share the same features as they do. and Im not arguing Goku being asian, Im arguing the atmosphere of the theme as a whole if shown in live action. A white guy with the name Goku, japanese caligraphy, an asian wife, half asian son, eating in the japanese life style doesn't look right as the majority of the lifestyle is asian oriented.

[DionLaurent1]

@hotwhire Asian culture doesn't mean Asian race. And eating Asian food doesn't make 1 Asian either.

[hotwhire]

@DionLaurent1 thats why I said an asian person doing it looks less Weeaboo.

[DionLaurent1]

@hotwhire That's all a matter of opinion. Appreciating the cultures of others is a far cry from being obsessed in it.

[hotwhire]

@DionLaurent1 Awhite guy living in an asian life style is not appreciating anything if hes also potraying himself as an asian man. (Not specifically Goku)

[DionLaurent1]

@hotwhire Wrong again. Because this can apply to any culture. If someone leaves their homeland and enters another land, he/she assimilates to that culture. A white guy goes to Africa and assimilates isn't portraying himself as black, he is assimilating.

[hotwhire]

I also think a problem hollywood has is the fact that they think white lead casting is more marketable even to non racist people. Thats why asians never get lead roles. Blacks are just starting too and a long with mexicans recently this decade.

[riderstein]

Yeah I agree with you on the whitewashing. Many white people I've talked to felt casting whites in Last Airbender was okay because they felt anime characters are ambiguously drawn. However, I think those people are on the outside looking in. Asian Americans identify with these characters and naturally assume they're Asian. I disagree that Hollywood cannot change because if you remember Stan Lee and how he has affected African Americans in movies you'll see Hollywood can change.

[cdh98]

it funny that black lagoon was mention because the four main characters all are ethnicly defined roc japanes,e dutch african american, bennie jewish, and revy chinese american

[123nitro]

I want to see more mixed raised characters in fiction. The world shouldn't just be black and white. Throw a little grey in there too.

[whorelordd]

you were at 21:57 lol

[bobbyw223]

SO TRUE cool vid

[newway1012]

The Last airbender was a bad movie on so many levels, a total waste of a promising franchise.

[thalunizz21]

worse anime fan base but it could be any fan base actually, the ones that praise an anime or whatever else with blind eyes to the negatives of it and crucified anyone that says anything negative about said thing.

[JOKEBEAN]

SUGGESTION: I would like you to discuss your thoughts on "Trapped Characters" (Characters that are apart of a finished series e.g. Trunks from dbz or a character that has died in a series e.g. Grimmjow from bleach) Discuss whether the said character "In your opinion" had accomplished their goal, also your thoughts on which "Trapped Character/s" you believe has wasted potential? or that you would bring back, given the chance

[Gamer026]

They are Tibean monks.....just letting know

[zizzleaerox]

If someone is called a retard jokengly by a friend then someone else that overhears shouldn't be offended because they wanna be politically correct just mind your own buisness and avoid the sitch.

[zizzleaerox]

Indians as the fire nation in that fail avatar movie isn't that racist. The fire nation as a whole are the bad guys most where just following orders and aang on the other guys just happened to be the opposing faction no good or evil just conflict. The director just made everyone look different because they look different in the show. Some people just wanna be offended by things that don't apply to them.

[MelinaPendulum]

@zizzleaerox In the days post 911, having Indian/Middle Eastern people playing the "bad guys" against white "heroes" is not only tactless, but is full of issues of race. We already had different groups represented in the cartoon, they did not emulate at all, if they did this would not be a problem in the least. However, they made the evil people brown and gave us a white savior...yeah that's not racist...

[Gadfly25]

Kind of OT but something I've noticed alot lately watching movies.

Back in the day, the hero saved other people. Some of the greatest movies have the hero acting selflessly to save their community (ie- Goonies, Attack the Block). Most movies nowadays have turned that on it's head.

The hero is now being chased by someone and acts selfishly in order to escape. Driving into incoming traffic causing crashes - but none of that matters - only the so called "hero" is important, noone else.

[TheZeroDestroyer]

I think you should have mentioned Cowboy Bebop, they were the first to really do the whole internatinal thing. CB by far was best at identifying ethnicity.

[TheJZoneproductions]

amazing discussion 

[TheZeroDestroyer]

Killerbee and Raikage will always be black to me, I don't care if they say they're fictional. So are redguards, we all know what it is.

[cdh98]

leo decapero is making ninja scroll and is not going to be in it is looking into asian actors

[StatelessRich]

Battle Royale is my favorite manga of all time. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

[giantstingray]

I'm not familiar with this channel,but if you are gonna start Black Lagoon be sure to watch season 2.

[bbvibrabb]

Suki suki 5 dorra

[huggy68]

great vid, deftones change thats my shit bro

[TeRey09]

@huggy68 That is the shit

[TheNatman17]

@RK454

[Killzor97]

I think a lot of people do this because they want to avoid controversy just because a black character died or because " the black character is evil, THIS SHIT IS RACIST" the same with ATLA, when they cast everyone white they did so because race didn't matter in Avatar all of them were drawn in the same way and they cast some indians everyone immediatelly screamed "OH look at this shit, the indians are the evil guys?! RACIST" completely forgetting the fact that the director wasn't white himself.

[MelinaPendulum]

@Killzor97 Just because the director is not white does not make the implications of what he did not racist. This would have all been avoided anyone he actually just made the characters resemble the cartoon characters, the cast was already mixed.

[IGOTGamexD2]

I thought he would've gone in on the black characters, with the pink lips. 

[RK454]

@IGOTGamexD2 those are sterotypes,and is a whole diffrent video....

[drren189099]

I think suki name means love or like.

[JapanFreak1000]

i always thought the fire nation was Korean/Japanese culture to me

[galacticmaui2]

18:01 first thing that came to mind was "Hawai'i" lol but great points you know what your talking about compared to many people of all cultures on these issues.

[MrTheRevolutionGamer]

i respect you 24/7

[Vendettis]

Batman: Under The Red Hood I heard is REALLY good...Jensen Ackles plays Jason Todd

[SaiyanZ3]

@Vendettis It is very good but the voices to me sound too "moaning" if you ask me. Its not in terms of personality, but in the ending scenes of the movie they try to compact the voice if that makes sense

[thCozarrd]

Black Lagoon is AWESOME!

[Vendettis]

You speak really well my friend, you definitely get your point across,this is so going into my favorites

[Deepstarr7020]

There was time when Batman wasn't taken seriously and now it's the most anticipated film of the year. There's always room for an exception. If Akira was actually done right, you're saying that wouldn't change the way people see anime? it would. Hollywood would have to find a way to sneak anime into the commercial market. My example would be Ghost World a comic book film that's now a cult classic, but they didn't market it as a comic book film.

[MitsuhideTheVagrant]

My drawings and art style is anime influenced, and even western influenced a bit at this point in my life, but I tend to draw more realistically. I plan on solving ethnicity problems I have by drawing the characters as particular ethnicities.

A great example: I created a female character back in junior high. I gave her a darker complexion and slanted eyes, but (at the time) I said she was 100% america. I've since decided to make her half American, half Japanese.

[Ahbalon]

Excellent video.

Very good points and well supported. I always thought that the fire nation were more like Mongolian and air monks more like Tibetan and Indian.

PS: let´s break PIPA.

[whorelordd]

@Ahbalon Yea i agree with you man, i always thought the air nation was tibet. shaolin monks were from china, they did shaolin kung fu.

[animerocknrolla13]

Black Lagoon does a very good job of differentiating characters of different race and nationality, though most of the characters being very intense have traits more showing of their flaws than ethnicity/nationality.

[animerocknrolla13]

Black Lagoon!February is now guaranteed to kick ass!Hahahaha!!!

[bealslyn]

Awesome shirt!

[EggDevilKing94]

arnt the air benders referencing the monks from Nepal and the Himalayas as opposed to Chinese. they both live at high altitudes, wear the same robes. and shaolin monk temples arnt as non violent as the monks from neppal. which would explain why the firebenders were able to wipe out the airbenders so easily(aside from sozins comet)

[Cinquan]

I like how you broke it down the references of how different the earth is in anime sometimes. I want to make a anime like cartoon full of different cultures one day.

[omegashenron8]

As long as the anime isn't putting down a race, I could care less. I usually just take the stereotypes as a grain of salt and just keep it moving. Perhaps I'm just ignorant for not caring. Personally I find Killer Bee hilarious, yes he's a stereotype but who cares, it gives me a laugh.

[IllIXR]

I think tsuki means moon not to sure though

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@IllIXR

Her name's "Suki."

[AnbusKi]

@OtakuASSEMBLE I don't think Anime/Manga is white washed because the majority of characters are created to appear Japanese.(one would expect this because the art comes from Japan.)

In closing:They have a fascination with blonde hair and blue eyes but that's been around before Japan even came in contact with White people.(Saiyan's are aliens so they don't apply to anything that exist in our world.)

[Cinquan]

You're gonna love Black Lagoon, thats all I'm gonna say. Keep these up when you can man. much appreciated.

[SaddenedSoul]

Oh, excuse me. I wrote that comment right before you mentioned Code Geass.

[SaddenedSoul]

lol Chibodee Crockett. Nothing beats the Statue of Liberty cannon they pull out near the end of the series.

I think Code Geass does a decent job of avoiding stereotypes while portraying its various Japanese, European, and Chinese characters. That being said, one tends to take the characters for granted as the series goes on.

[RSNCICREO]

also  Goku is a god the monkey king [ Sun Wukong]

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@RSNCICREO

But that's not "Dragon Ball", that's "Journey to the West". Two completely different stories, my friend.

[RSNCICREO]

@OtakuASSEMBLE if you read tthe novel then watched/read first part of Dragonball

its qulite simply put toriyama retelling seiyuki[ journey to the west]

why make Goku a Monkey if thats not what toriyama is referencing

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@RSNCICREO

The argument is not what he's referencing, it's what the final product is. That's the point. Goku isn't Sun Wukong in Dragon Ball, he's Goku. He isn't a god, he's an alien. Just like I said in regards to Avatar, those countries are referencing real cultures, but they aren't those cultures. When you adapt something, you adapt it based off of what's present, not what was intended or trying to reference. You follow?

[RSNCICREO]

@OtakuASSEMBLE yes i do in a way but its not trying reference its a [ with aditso of some of his own characters ] toriyama [ un till Piccolo Daimiyo arc in DB was just putting his own spin on jouney to the west [ not the first to do it and not the last] to respin it and not the llat [ and not the last one to touch the Chinese Clasics or Wuxia either [ three kingdoms being to most used]

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@RSNCICREO

Once again, that's not the point. The point is that Hollywood wouldn't cast an asian cast for DB Evolution because none of the characters are Japanese, period.

[albertw725]

@OtakuASSEMBLE I like how you explain a lot about Avatar the Last Airbender and how those countries referencing to real cultures. Awesome video.

[RSNCICREO]

um right you do know dragonal takes its inspiration from Seiyuki[ Journey to the west ] so whitewashing that cast is wrong on more levels then you could know

[TrueMetis]

Shaolin monks are largely Chinese. Also the word eskimo bugs the crap out of me, guess it's still an accepted term in the US though.

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@TrueMetis

If I offended you, then I apologize. Would you care to educate me on the proper term?

[hatmanlikescats]

@OtakuASSEMBLE The proper term is Inuit. It's kind of like calling a native american an Indian.

[OtakuASSEMBLE]

@hatmanlikescats

Thank you. I never knew eskimo was an offensive term.

[TrueMetis]

@OtakuASSEMBLE I'm not particularly offended but I do know some people who would kick your ass for calling them that. As far as I know in the US it is still considered a proper term, but it wouldn't go over well in Canada (or Greenland either I think) where the proper term would be Inuit. However Eskimo also refers to the Yupik people of Alaska and far east Russia. So if you want to avoid any potential offence the terms Yupik and Inuit would probably be best.

[TheGloryXros]

Dang, I just got educated in Avatar ethnicity...I mean, I knew there was SOMETHIN HINTED goin on there, but WOW...good vid.

[z3kRL]

Try to discuss Akumetsu, Berserk, or Shamo.

[Lordoftheflame1000]

I believe that they are suppose to be just the basic human shape so the lack of featers are not to escape racial traits its to express style i identify characters that are stated to be japanees and I try my best to not wonder what race the characters are. i think it is fun to write with stereo types and have done so but then i always put in a charicter in my writing to prove that is not how they are all like. EX: i have a black gangster in my writing. but i also have a black computer geek.

[Isamu00000]

G-Gundams stereotypes felt like they were done on purpose

iirc Tsuki means moon

I'm rather okay with okay with most stereotypes in manga/anime as long as it doesn't go too far, the only one that really bothers me is when they put huge lips on black people

why not try a DOTW on manga /anime videogames? and how some are really good,Jump Ultimate Stars, and some crap, most Naruto games

[konotanteisan]

topic u might want to address next week:"what makes a good character" or " is it understandable to love a series(anime/manga) without it necessarily being good when it is analysed by people who study literature" for example: I watch a show and i love it, but then it doesn't get to me to not like a series cuz a character wasn't developed right or as much in terms of elements of literature, i think there's no "right way" to do it as long as you send your point/theme/moral to the audience, peace :)

[ipakmann]

There's a fade in Japan where girls get tans and bleach their hair blonde and wear heavy amounts of make up I believe its called Ganguro. However I don't know if this fade is still popular or not but it might have something to do with the stereotyping of African Americans in anime and other parts of Japanese media.

[z3kRL]

Amazing video man. I'm getting tired of all the stereo typing of blacks and other races in anime. It seriously irks the fuck out of me.

[xxTheSilentHeartxxx]

I take Japanese. "Suki" Means Like. "Kirai" is dislike. and nice discussion. I enjoy watching them. What i don't get is how you go on for so long without having to even think about what your going to say next.

[Jmaster677]

battle royale and black lagoon ftw!! pick those larry great choices!! :)

[ipakmann]

Mr. 1 from One Piece has an African American feel to his design but he is never represented in (not even in the 4 kids dub)an offensive way.

On the the other hand Killer Bee is offensive for obvious reasons. Also according to the SBS on One Piece if Luffy existed in the real world he would be Brazilian.

Franky is kind of offensive because its clear that's he's American.

I agree with your points.

[Jmaster677]

@ipakmann ya aokiji is also black but isnt represented poorly, besides being a fucking badass xD

[Isamu00000]

@ipakmann I never got the whole american feeling from Franky

[ipakmann]

@Isamu00000 In the SBS its say that he would be American if he existed in the real world, not only that but he's favorite foods are Cola and hamburgers, and he's design is based off of Ace Ventura/ Elvis.

[konotanteisan]

great way of putting it, good job as usual larry

[OzakiRain]

oops meant the french/europe branch. lol but yeah

[OzakiRain]

pff i just think its dumb when people think all anime characters are white. its ther shit so it given that they are japanese unless its obvious or said otherwise like in darker then black when they say someones from the french or europe group.

[thalunizz21]

Damn really good discussion Larry, keep them coming. And the request I gave a while ago was worse anime fan base but it could be any fan base actually, the ones that praise an anime or whatever else with blind eyes to the negatives of it and crucified anyone that says anything negative about said thing.

[theenels]

did u saw megaupload got shut down??