I don't see how anybody can deny the excistence of God. How could an explosion create something? Have you ever seen a "non-destructive" explosion? Just take a look around you and you'll find proof. Just think of how complicated the human body is. The cells, all the organs, the brain? How could a major explosion create life? Explosions are destructive forces. And how could an explosion just come out of nowhere? I certainly hope that you someday will accept the truth..
Okay, I just watched the other guy's video and he seems like an intelligent young guy regardless of weather he is right or wrong on this particular issue.
My question is why do you keep attacking him personally by constantly referring to him as a "clown"?
You show some real animosity to anyone who doesn't happen to agree with you.
According to your profile, you're 49 years old! Do you know how pathetic you sound? You seem like to act like a little kid trapped in an old man's body! Grow up
The origins of theism are a combination of ignorance about the workings of the natural world and anthropocentric bias.
"Gods" begin in ANIMISM - specific patterns of nature that are superficially observed having personal motive to them.
The origins of "GoD" ala monotheism in history syncs up to the emergence of philosophy and natural science. It is an image of human consciousness, not it's source. In part is it a consequence of a false appraisal of ourselves (the belief in "the soul.")
Oh wow no we are awaiting your answer our master, the knowledgable fuck of the fuckers, please answer our questions. We know you are a genius who has won 9 nobel prizes.
Seriously, nobody gives a fuck what your opinions is, you retarded piece of shit.
i am also intrigued by the mocking certainty with which you point to the big bang as the origin of the universe, and the fact that you say the universe is "still being created". didnt einstein point to the idea, which has been repeatedly reaffirmed, that matter and energy cannot be destroyed or created, but only interchanged? so where do you get this mocking certainty that the universe is "being created"?
"Mocking certainty" in science is called "convincing and conclusive evidence." There is no such thing as certainty in science: all facts are to be considered tentative. At the moment all of the available evidence tells us that the Big Bang happened and is still happening: if you have any evidence showing otherwise, please share it with the world (and win a few prizes in the process).
You do realize the ironic humour of your statement when you say: "There is no such thing as certainty in science" and then say; "all of the available evidence tells us that the Big Bang happened and is still happening".
It is also said that "Proof is in the experience". I have found that if you want to find your way to something, follow someone who's already been there.
If you literally follow the path of Christ, you will find GOD and have your proof.
There is no conflict in saying that there is no absolute certainty, but that all of the information that we do have supports a specific conclusion.
It may be said that "proof is in the experience".. but not by anyone whose opinions matter the slightest bit to me. You should know how mistaken personal experience can be. Personal experience is highly prized by those that have nothing else to rely on, that doesn't mean it's a useful indicator.
Einstein thought it was important when he PROVED light was both Particle AND Wave, when science said nothing can be BOTH.
Who does your uniformed OPINION matter too? I didn't figure you'd respect my informed opinion that's why I gave you a method of informing your own. Then you would have some actual information with which to draw a conclusion.
Experience is also the BEST teacher. I don't think I know...I just know I'm thinking.
@NomadSoul76 Let's review. You said; "he "proved" nothing...Proof only exists in mathematics...He provided mathematical models which agreed with observation."
Sure sounds to me like you just admitted HE PROVED it.
Let's meet in the middle; I'll admit that just because I say it doesn't mean it's true and you admit that just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true.
@ancientclown Again, no. It doesn't mean he proved it. What part of "proof isn't a scientific concept" are you not clear on? Science deals in degrees of uncertainty.
This is an old enough thread that I don't really know what your comment is in relation to any more.. but proof just DOES NOT EXIST IN THE REALM OF SCIENCE. When someone says "prove it" you have to explain to them how they're mistaken because you can't prove ANYTHING. Just demonstrate how it's well supported.
@ancientclown if you think "mathematical models" means this is a mathematical scenario so proof is relevant.. NO. Really, no. We're talking in the realms of pure math, proofs of esoteric mathematical problems. Like one that was recently solved by a Russian mathematician.. I don't remember what the problem was called, but the point is he provided that sort of a proof.
@NomadSoul76 Mathematically speaking, isn't it impossible for a bumblebee to fly? Didn't your science used to believe the Earth was flat, that nothing was smaller than an atom, etc. I'm simply saying, science and math is limited. In numerous ways, what was once considered science fiction has become science fact. Those who use science as their religion are like those who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Be a scientist and find GOD yourself, HINT: you'll need to be humble.
@ancientclown Science never claims to know the absolute truth - if it did it would never change & improve. The fact that theories change shows this. Science tries to formulate the best descriptions of reality based on the available objective data. When new data arise, theories change. However, they only improve. Each change is a refinement that provides a more accurate description. Just because science changes or is incomplete doesn't mean that you get to substitute fantasy and wishful thinking.
@TheLivingDinosaur You may wish to consider the Imaginative have always lead the way, while the scientific has always been years behind it. It's funny how "left brain" folks base so much on that which is, as you admit, incomplete.
I guess that's why the wise have always said; The one with imagination is far more powerful than the one with all the facts.
P.S. Wisdom is not the Accumulation of Knowledge, but rather it is the proper Application of Knowledge. Do not seek to know, seek to be wise.
@ancientclown Right, just like the "imaginative" thought it a good idea to treat psychoses by drilling holes in peoples' skulls to let out demons while the scientific have "lagged" by insisting on developing psychotherapy and anti-psychotic drugs. And you may not have noticed, that the drugs of the past weren't as good as the drugs of today because our knowledge has grown. Nevertheless they are all better than holes in the head. I assume you'll be opting for the drill if you ever need treatment?
@TheLivingDinosaur Factually speaking, that would have been scientific doctors that came up with drilling, shocking, drugging, etc. You also might want to investigate the number of suicides/homicides that have occurred as a result of those anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs, not sure if it's wise using corrupt Big Pharma to help your argument. (Drugs are bad, don't do drugs).
P.S. Cops tried to have me committed after failing in killing me. I passed with flying colors& have copy of results
I'm not sure where you can find "science" saying the world was flat. You can find examples of science contradicting that view, but..
It always amuses me when the history of science correcting itself in order to achieve a better understanding of the nature of reality is used to try to suggest that it is somehow innately flawed. I'm downright puzzled that you find blindly accepting something without questioning to be a superior solution.
@NomadSoul76 Assumptions are not very scientific of you. I don't blindly accept anything. I find out for myself, and only suggested you do likewise. After years of questioning I found Jesus left the best road-map.
The BIG BANG, as you like to call it, happened when GOD said; "Let there be light". If science has a history of always correcting itself, that means it also has a history of being incorrect. Have you considered the possibility that science may yet correct itself concerning GOD?
@ancientclown Okay, so there's two parts to your comment that need to be responded to. Your anecdotal evidence regarding the existence of a supernatural entity may be very convincing to you, but you'll understand if it has zero significance for me since I haven't experienced it. It can't be replicated, it can't be investigated. So it's not particularly helpful.
@NomadSoul76 My friend; It can be replicated and investigated, you need only "Walk in the Way". Take nothing on your journey and you'll find everything you need, exactly when and where you need it. You'll also gain a much deeper understanding of the differences between wants and needs.
Keep in mind though, coincidences are the lazy one's way of explaining events so they don't have to think about it any further.
@ancientclown And here we reach the same old impasse. We're at the point where you tell me that I just have to seek out this supernatural entity. Ultimately I have to believe in it first and then somehow I'll find it. This is NOT science, you've got to be joking when you suggest that this sort of sloppy thinking is going to ultimately be integrated into science.
@NomadSoul76 Actually, you don't have to believe anything. Beliefs are frail and unstable. It's best not to begin with lots of preconceptions. It's simply an experiment, which IS science. Sloppy thinking is drawing conclusions without any of the data, or simply accepting that which you've been given.
Since you like math and formulas, you could investigate the "Law of Life" I wrote. Google- ancient clown- click Ancient's History(1st on list) find "Law of Life" on sidebar. read comments as well.
@ancientclown As to coincidences.. don't make me laugh. Citing coincidences as evidence of the supernatural is the lazy man's proof for god. Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day, that doesn't mean an invisible man in the sky is guiding the hands.
@NomadSoul76 As to coincidences...Well you know what it said, but you obviously don't know what it means. What if man with broken watch keeps asking others for the time and it's always in triple digits.(ie. 1:11 or 2:22, etc.) It might be time to think a little harder.
@ancientclown I asked you to try to remind you that the human mind seeks out patterns and will see them where they don't exist. Claiming coincidences as evidence of the divine is just sloppy theology. It says that you need a reason to believe but aren't going to be too picky about what you accept. You're just looking for an excuse, not evidence. I am a little dismayed that you referred to this approach as an experiment, though.
@NomadSoul76 You still don't understand. I'm not claiming coincidences as evidence of the divine, I'm stating simply, I don't believe in them. Everything happens for a reason, or as Einstein/scientist? said; "God doesn't play dice with the Universe".
Again, you know what it says, but still don't know what it means. My reference to an experiment had nothing to do with coincidences and everything to do with the journey itself.
Did you research Ancient's Law of Life? I used a mathematical formula.
@NomadSoul76 You might also take into consideration that the human mind can also find patterns where they DO exist. This is what lets you see the 3D image amidst the repetitive patterns in those art posters. It truly depends on how you look at it, as to whether or not you will see it. Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't mean it stops existing or was never there. The same can be said for the search for the Divine.
@ancientclown You do know that "God doesn't play dice with the universe" was a statement of Einstein's doubting of quantum theory, right? And that Einstein turned out to be wrong, that "god" does indeed play dice? It's quite likely that the hard drive in your computer is using a quantum principle to function.
You need something more than "well gee, it looks like a pattern to me, it must be evidence of a magical man in the sky". It just doesn't work like that.
@NomadSoul76 Yes, he was mistaken about quantum theory, which again shows how limited science is, yet strange that a scientist should make such a reference when you say science doesn't believe in God, yet so many scientists do. You are aware that quite a few of them(scientists) were actually trying to find proof of God right? That they held deep spiritual beliefs of their own. They just went about it in the wrong way, instead of "walking in the way".
@ancientclown Oh now this is fun. Scientists are using the the wrong method? So tell me, instead of learning about the natural world around us and developing the technology that's made the modern world possible, just what should they have been doing?
Pondering the nature of imaginary formulas that use imaginary units that can't be measured and that don't actually apply to reality? Redefining coincidence in order to support a theology of convenience?
@NomadSoul76 Your modern world is on the verge of collapse, so I don't see how you can think it's made a continued existence possible. What it has made is a great deal of pollution, destruction and extinction. In fact, you could say that the only thing the modern world has truly invented is GARBAGE, since everything it makes ends up there. That would not indicate they have really learned much about the natural world. I think it's funny that you think YOU are imaginary and not a part of reality.
@ancientclown Interesting. Would you care to point out where I said that I think I am imaginary?
Could it be that you just invented this to run away from your "law" that you know won't stand up to a second's scrutiny? I'm very happy that you've been able to live by doing what you love, but you can't be so self involved to think that that works for everyone.
@NomadSoul76 Sure buddy, when you said;"I use imaginary units that can't be measured and that don't actually apply to reality". Remember YOU are one of the units, the OTHER one is NEEDS, which can be measured as; that which you cannot survive without. Wants are another matter altogether.
It's because I'm NOT self involved and don't think I'm so special that I think it works for everyone. Can the blind still See the solution, can the deaf still Listen to wisdom?
@ancientclown So once again, in what unit is "me" measured? And what is the compatible unit that "happiness" is measured in?
Does this mean that bigger people get more happiness? Are short people doomed to be less happy simply because there's less of them to get the happiness?
@NomadSoul76 What unit does science measure YOU in? Afterall it was you that said if it can't be measured it doesn't apply or exist in reality. I figured you would know what unit science uses to measure you so you can be sure you exist and are not just imaginary.
That second part...ROFLMAOPMP. Thank you. Right from the belly that laugh came bursting forth. Seriously though, not sure why you're going on about happiness as I never mentioned the word once in my entire post.
@ancientclown For that matter I'd still like to see you explain what you think scientists should be doing. They've succeeded in learning a great deal about the reality in which we live, but that appears to threaten you. You don't want to know, do you? I'd imagine that you'd prefer to believe that rainbows are manifestations of supernatural forces rather than an atmospheric optical phenomenon.
But then what you really want is no science, surely. Not a different kind.
@NomadSoul76 Scientists could greatly benefit from Walking in the Way first. To find the right answers you must first learn how to ask the right questions. If they now understand that the observer effects the outcome, then HOW they observe would also effect the outcome. Science lacks the tools to measure Intuition and Empathy, yet they are as much a part of your senses as your eyes and ears, but enhance your ability to see and listen. You have 7 senses, not just 5. Learn to use them.
@ancientclown As to your law of life.. I made the mistake of looking it up.
You're a stoner, aren't you? This is the sort of thing people who are high on marijuana come up with and think is deep wisdom. They never notice that this big idea can't actually be applied to anything. They can't get over their fondness of it to realize that it's meaningless.
Tell me. What units is "you" measured in? In what form are you quantifying happiness?
@NomadSoul76 Perhaps it's meaning is just too deep for a surface thinker. I guess everybody commenting must be stoners too eh?. You do know the difference between rules and laws right? What mankind calls laws in it's judicial system are actually rules. It's application is simple and becomes a part of life, instead of working for money to get what you want, do what you love for free and you will always get what you need. It's been working for me for over 15 yrs.
@ancientclown So explain it to me. What units do you measure "you" in? How about happiness, what units is that measured in?
It's not a law, it's weak sauce amateur hour philosophy. Philosophy that's demonstrably false, mind you. All I need to do is show one person that's failed to survive simply by doing what they loved and your "natural law" is done.
@NomadSoul76 The same ones science uses to measure YOU in I guess. You do exist right? You can use science to measure you and PROVE you are a part of reality right? Surely science can measure your consciousness and sub-consciousness as well.
You say you only need one person to not survive for it to be a failure, yet I can show you millions that have not survived the Law of Man. Please do put it to the test, you can use the Words of Christ as a guide (Mark 6:8-11). Get back to me when your done.
@ancientclown What exactly do you mean by the law of man? And why do you think that pointing out the failure of some other law has any bearing on the demonstrable failure of your supposed law to reflect reality? I mean, other than it appearing that you're trying to distract the discussion again to avoid putting your special claims to any sort of test.
Read up on the fallacy of the false dichotomy. Refuting one concept does not automatically support another.
@NomadSoul76 You said you checked it out. The Law of Man was mentioned first
a+c=d (you+cash=what you want). This is the formula man has followed for the past few thousand years, regardless of Politics, Religion, Race, etc. It can be seen worldwide. You misunderstand again, I was only highlighting man's formula to be a failure due to the enormous death rate and failed survival. I thought you WERE testing mine, I said PLEASE DO. Are you back already?
@ancientclown Actually I think this is an interesting question. So does a morbidly obese 500 pound person get more happiness than an individual of healthy weight? Or is "me" measured as "one", which means happiness is simply "one" as well? Just how much use can you get out of "one" happiness?
@NomadSoul76 Again, not sure why you're still going on about "happiness", as I never once used the word. However, since we're on the subject, perhaps you could tell me how science measures happiness, or love. They do exist in your reality don't they?
Perhaps happiness sticks to fat cells that's why some obese people are thought of as Jolly. They are so happy they could just burst.
@ancientclown Now here is where things get interesting. In the comment I'm responding to you state you don't believe in coincidences. The thing is, you just recently accepted that they exist. Remember, the stopped clocking giving the right time twice a day?
So you appear to understand that coincidences do exist, yet days later state that you don't believe in them. It's a bad sign that you have to hide away things you know to be true to support your spirituality.
@NomadSoul76 Actually the clock being right twice a day was YOUR interpretation of coincidence not mine, I classify that as just common sense, not coincidence. Though I suppose if you lack common sense you may see it that way. I actually mentioned something quite different about time that refutes coincidence. It's a bad sign when you start saying things that simply aren't true to support your science.
@ancientclown It's not an "interpretation", it is a coincidence. A coincidence that can't fail to happen when you're dealing with a broken analog clock. You didn't so much refute it as quickly try to change the subject because you had no response to it yet you've built your philosophy on denying that it could even happen.
@NomadSoul76 Clearly you don't know what the word means; (WEBSTER) "the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident, but seem to have some connection." Therefore your broken clock nonsense doesn't fit this description and is not an example of coincidence. I didn't change the subject, but gave you a different concept to consider.
You also keep confusing lack of beliefs with denying existence. Let me clarify, I acknowledge that George Bush exists, but I don't believe in him.
@ancientclown So you're saying that the two minutes each day during which a stopped analog clock gives the correct time do not occur by accident? It's intentional that the clock is showing the correct time even though it's not functioning?
I'm puzzled by the second part of this comment as well. Are you telling me you acknowledge the existence of meaningless coincidences, but you choose not to believe in them to support your theology? That's actually basically what I said you were doing.
@NomadSoul76 It's not by accident, it would be impossible for it NOT to be correct twice a day, unless the hands fell off.
NO, I'm telling you meaningless coincidences go unnoticed, if it becomes noticed it is NOT a coincidence, it is synchronicity. Ever watch the TV show NCIS, (good show) Gibbs doesn't believe in coincidences either. Can't argue with THAT!!!
If you want to uncover the depth of lies and definitions within your reality, give TRUE definition of "Martyr" for me.
@ancientclown Now if the dictionary had defined coincidence as; "the occurrence of events that happen at the same time seemingly by accident, but actually have some connection." That would be another matter entirely, but by putting the word "seems" in the wrong place(did you notice?) they define a word that gets misused by lazy people unwilling to think about it further.(not you, other people).
P.S. I really do want you to give the TRUE meaning of Martyr.
@ancientclown So let's talk about coincidences. I saw an item in the news recently.. a man had taken his girlfriend on a scenic hike because he was planning to propose to her. He had taken her to a special place to pop the question. But before he could do it she was struck by lightning and killed.
Was this a coincidence? Or was this done for a reason? Is this what he gets for doing what he enjoyed? What does your law have to say about this?
@ancientclown You didn't answer my question. Is it intentional for it to be correct for two minutes every day even though it's broken?
If it's not intentional then it is by accident, isn't it? The clock is not specifically designed in order to still show the correct time twice a day when it ceases to function.
Your philosophy is all tied up in trying to attach magical significance to chance occurrences. You're not the first, nor will you be the last to do so.
@NomadSoul76 I did answer your question. It is impossible for it not to tell the correct time twice a day, thereby making it no accident. It's funny, I mentioned to some folks that you thought a broken clock being right twice a day was an example of a coincidence and they burst out laughing. You have no idea what my philosophy is about since you even have trouble understanding what coincidence means.
@ancientclown Here's the thing. You accept that the stopped clock coincidence will happen but deny that it's a coincidence because you understand the mechanism behind it. But you cling to other coincidences simply because you don't understand them. If you're ignorant of the psychological or probabalistic nature of the event you seize upon it as evidence of the supernatural, when rational people understand that you can't NOT see these things, kinda like the clock can't avoid being right.
@NomadSoul76 Here's the thing, I've never accepted a stopped clock telling the right time twice daily is even a correct example of the word coincidence, as it's defined. Second, I clearly stated I don't believe in coincidences so can hardly cling to them.
That you continue to make such glaring errors in your comments shows a limited ability to understand and comprehend. When you continue to make things up that were never said nor implied shows you suffer from delusions.
@ancientclown Your definition of coincidence is a very curious thing. Don't even pretend to quote a dictionary, you couldn't follow that through for even one comment cycle. You quoted "accidental" as being important, yet never could seem to point out to me where a clock was intended to be correct twice a day even if it's broken.
What you mean is that you understand the mechanism through which this coincidence occurs, so therefore you disregard it.
@NomadSoul76 Search "Online Dictionary" goto Websters and type in Coincidence. I copy/pasted it.
Now for the last time; A clock is designed with the intentions of telling the correct time. Even when it's broken those intentions remain twice a day. It is no accident nor coincidence. It is doing exactly as it was intended to do. Period.
You obviously have no clue as to what I mean, even when I say it as simply as possible.
@ancientclown In other words, coincidences are your god of the gaps. If you don't understand the mechanisms at work then you demand the right to declare it a magical occurrence. Your ignorance becomes proof.
And sometimes when you do understand it you just decide to ignore it. For instance you've accepted that the human mind has a tendency to find patterns even where they don't exist. But you still declare that if you think you see a pattern it must therefore be real. Willful ignorance.
@NomadSoul76 Actually it was YOU that said; "the human mind has a tendency to find patterns even where they don't exist" I actually disagreed and said patterns do exist and provided the hidden 3D puzzles as example.
Here's a basic math problem, Please provide the answer for ? and explain how you got your answer.
@ancientclown But when you come prancing in here trying to throw out half assed formulas that can't actually be applied to anything, and then try to get philosophical by asserting that everything has meaning and then citing your assertion as proof that everything has meaning.. someone WILL notice that you're doing nothing more than engaging in circular reasoning to give you a warm happy feeling.
@NomadSoul76 You've clearly demonstrated you know what it says, but have no idea what it means. Just like the people that used Darwin's Theory of Evolution to try and say that was proof there is no GOD. Darwin thought quite the opposite and was actually quite upset at the suggestion.
Most people don't realize that it was only the fundamentalists in the U.S. that had a problem with Evolution, not anyone with Faith in God. There is no contradiction, only evidence of His grand design. (a=b)
@ancientclown Isn't it funny how "evidence of his grand design" is indistinguishable from "understanding of a natural process"? Have you ever noticed how if you drop the god part the understanding and the explanation remains the same?
@NomadSoul76 Isn't it funny that it was the same scientist DARWIN that came up with the theory of evolution that found it as evidence of God's Grand Design and not something that happened by accident, but by design.
Have you ever noticed the same scientists that have advanced science have themselves been believers in GOD. Strange that ignorant people would try to use that same science to say there is no GOD when science itself has no such proof.
@ancientclown I've asked you before how a scientist is supposed to employ your empty headed theistic beliefs to better do their job as you claim they should be doing.
Let's say we're talking about an infectious diseases researcher working on ways to cure a particularly difficult to treat disease. How does adding your fuzzy concept of god into the process allow them to better treat the disease? What do they do differently other than pay lip service to the divine and then do their work normally
@NomadSoul76 By understanding the mind, body and soul are all aspects of the same being and when one is out of balance it becomes evident by showing up in the others. (It's usually anal people that get colon cancer). In TRUTH, your doctors do nothing to heal people, they are only concerned with prescribing drugs to treat the symptoms. Cannabis cures cancer and kills brain tumors, yet has been lied about and made illegal by corrupt men for corporate gain.(Oil, lumber, Pharmaceutical, etc)
@ancientclown You talk about the soul.. you're going to have to demonstrate that such a thing exists first. And I'd very much like a citation to this "anal people get colon cancer" bullshit.
The rest of this I can't even deal with. You're going to be happy to rely upon conspiracy delusions. The lack of evidence in support of your interests is going to be proof of the conspiracy and the lack of refutations of the stuff you're arguing against is also going to be proof of the conspiracy.
@ancientclown This is a fascinating approach. Really it is. You're getting your ass handed to you on the numerous avenues that you've already opened. Your "law" explains nothing and is easily falsifiable, so you had to redefine it so it means even less and approaches the level of tautology, but fails to even make that much sense.
For coincidence you've now openly stated that a clock is intentionally designed to give the correct twice for two minutes every day when it's broken.
@NomadSoul76 ROFLMAOPMP You continually lie when pretending to quote me, are unable to understand the simplest of statements and keep providing improper examples for coincidences, despite me providing you with the dictionary definition and suffer from delusions to such an extent that you think this means I'm having my ass handed to me.
@ancientclown Not content with these points you want to open a NEW avenue. You want to get to discussing something apparently unrelated to the current discussions. Could it be that you realize that you're dying here and are in desperate need of a diversion? Could this be the "what's that behind you???" maneuver in action?
I'm not biting. If you're content to leave it at "clocks are designed to show the correct time when broken" and "if it's true for me then it's a universal law" then fine.
@NomadSoul76 Only you would say the true definition of the word Martyr is unrelated to a discussion about GOD.
Could it be that despite me asking for this definition throughout our discussion, you have kept avoiding it because you don't know and don't want to admit the dictionary is lying. Much like you didn't know what a coincidence was and tried to say it was a broken clock telling the right time twice a day.
But if you don't want to learn anything, that's fine by me. Take care.
@ancientclown Since you're so interested in pointing out where people are making stuff up, I'd like for you to quote the part of my comments where I said that the word martyr is unrelated to the concept of am imaginary man in the sky.
I said that it was an attempt to distract the conversation away from areas where you're floundering. And you are.
You're floundering so bad that you have to lie about what I've said in almost the same breath that you accuse me of lying about what you've said.
@NomadSoul76 Since this whole post is related to the existence or non-existence of GOD and our discussions branch out from there. While you were the one trying to distract from that discussion by continually misquoting, providing inaccurate descriptions for words like coincidence(even after I gave you a direct quote from an online dictionary) and when I tried to bring us back to topic, you said; "You want to get to discussing something apparently unrelated to the current discussions." Simple.
@ancientclown About the only final thing I have to say is that I called it. You're a stoner who thinks that his chemically induced thoughts are divine revelations. I was really just joking when I said that what you're saying sounds like stoner philosophy, but then you went and said that stuff about marijuana curing cancer.
Look, I'm all in favor of legalization, it's not exactly good for you but outlawing it has far worse repercussions.
@NomadSoul76 First off, I'm not for legalization. It should be eliminated from the criminal code entirely as the only reason it's there is because of corrupt American Politicians. It would be nice if you educated yourself about these things before commenting, or even after I point them out to you, rather than continue your stupidity. In TRUTH, cannabis IS good for you. It grows brain cells, not kills them like alcohol does. You have receptors in your brain designed to ONLY accept Pot. Research.
@ancientclown You claim pot "grows" brain cells. You can now either cite evidence of this extraordinary claim or admit that you're bullshitting.
Your choice.
Given your history of making ridiculous, evidence free claims let's say I'm not holding my breath for the admission of evidence this time.
I'm also puzzled about how you claim that it's so good for you moments after you explained how all this knowledge came to you while abstaining from it. Somehow I just don't believe that.
@NomadSoul76 Sorry this took so long, been offline for awhile.
You can research here (user/EssiacHempLaetrile). There's lots more out there if you are inclined to search honestly.
Please don't take the wrong way, but I don't care what you BELIEVE, I'm only sharing the TRUTH. I was mostly a drinker in my 20's, I began my spiritual journey at 30 and quit drinking and abstained from everything while I was searching and learning the TRUTH.
@ancientclown But at some point you're going to need to learn that the stuff you think the drug is teaching to you comes from meddling with your neurochemistry, not an invisible magical man in the sky.
@NomadSoul76 At some point, you will need to eliminate your prejudice, arrogance and stupidity. FYI, when I began my spiritual journey it included the elimination of all substances like alcohol, pot, mushrooms, etc and attain a state of clarity and honesty. It was a journey of self awareness that included the elimination of lies both to myself and others.
Everything learned on this journey was done so substance free. Including the TRUTH about these same substances.
@ancientclown Or, put another way, what would NOT be evidence of "his grand design"? Evolution? Evidence. Gravity? Evidence. What if we found flying zombie monkeys? Presumably that would also be evidence. What is the value of going around declaring that everything you see, no matter what, is evidence of the same thing? A theory that explains any possible observation explains nothing.
You've just slipped down a few notches from weaksauce philosophy to cheerfully embracing dogma.
@NomadSoul76 said "What is the value of going around declaring that everything you see, no matter what, is evidence of the same thing?" Funny, you just described how most people use the word coincidence. They, like you, don't even know what the word means so use it incorrectly.
@ancientclown Disproving your little "law" is simplicity in itself. How many millions are existing in conditions of poverty worldwide, desperately fighting just to get enough food to continue living? According to your law they should stop fighting and just have fun. Just do what they enjoy and they'll survive.
Does this sound like a workable approach, or does it sound like warm fuzzy bullshit that only makes sense because you live in a wealthy country and are reasonably secure?
@NomadSoul76 You still don't understand. Those millions that live in poverty do so because of the corruption of man's formula (a+c=d). If they labored for what they needed, instead of working to make the rich richer and keeping themselves poor they WOULD be better off. If people like yourself stop supporting the theft of all their food, water and life sustaining needs, they WOULD be better off. Rich countries STEAL from the poor ones. Buy bottled water? It was stolen and resold.
@ancientclown now you're really going off the deep end. Bottled water was stolen?
Bottled water is simply water from usual water supplies run through unnecessary extra filtration steps. I'm starting to think you don't live in the same reality that I do, as if you're using some sort of interdimensional network link and sending communications back from some strange parallel world.
@NomadSoul76 REALLY? Perhaps search "BLUE GOLD" or "FLOW-For Love Of Water" and educate yourself. You are correct about one thing though, we don't live in the same reality, considering yours is an illusion filled with delusions and corruptions of how things REALLY are. You don't have the proper definitions or examples of the terminology you use. You still haven't even provided the TRUE definition of Martyr, despite me asking multiple times.
@ancientclown Now then.. your "formula" seems to be changing even as you defend it. You originally defined it as somehow saying that everything you need is already there waiting for you to take it. Now your argument is sort of mutating into something else.. as stated here it seems to be "you should work to fulfill your needs rather than the needs of others".
And you think this is a surprising or special revelation?
@NomadSoul76 Clearly you still don't understand nor comprehend what my formula means, so claim it's changing when you incorrectly quoted; "you should work to fulfill your needs rather than the needs of others". I never said this nor implied it, so you're not quoting me. Your wording also demonstrates you don't understand the differences between wants and needs, nor work and labor.
You hear, but do not listen and look, but do not see.
I can only point this out, it's up to you to change it.
@ancientclown Can you understand that "it works for me, so it must be true for every other human being on this planet" is bullshit? Are you capable of understanding that other people do not exist in the same circumstances in which you do?
Put more simply, you do you realize that there is a physical world outside your door that doesn't care what metaphysical bullshit you cling to to get you through your day?
@NomadSoul76 Can you understand I never once said it works for me ALONE. You keep thinking I'm the only one who has lived by this formula. I don't know why you are still talking to me when you should be out walking and testing.
Put more simply, you do realize there is a spiritual world outside you that DOES care how much you kill and destroy to get through your day.
@ancientclown I never said you said it works for you alone. I said that you said it's a universal formula, which is demonstrably false. You claimed it works for EVERYONE, and that's trivially simple to falsify. I find it interesting that you seem to have heard the exact opposite of what I said, though.
"out walking and testing".. huh? The testing has been done. People die through lack of food or basic medical care. Your "formula" doesn't apply to reality as we know it.
@NomadSoul76 You said; "it works for me, so it must be true for every other human being on this planet is bullshit" which implies it really only works for me and is therefore not universal. Yet, It's worked for everyone that has used it, which makes it pretty universal.
When you said; "The testing has been done". You lied, because you didn't do anything, but make yet another decision based on fear and greed. AGAIN, What does Martyr really mean?
@NomadSoul76 Let's focus instead on how you keep quoting things I never said. Let's focus on how this demonstrates your lack of understanding and comprehension.
Then let's focus on how you've still refused to provide the REAL definition of the word MARTYR despite the number of times I've asked.
Now let's hold the focus there for a moment until you DO provide that definition and not get sidetracked with your delusions.
@ancientclown I was simply attempting to point out that "hey, it works for me and therefore this proves that it's a universal law that applies to every single human being in the world" is an absurd claim.
I was very close to a lightning strike during a storm and survived. Using your shoddy logic I should proceed to declare that no one can be struck by lightning and that it's fine to go outside during an electrical storm.
@ancientclown Now, regarding science changing itself to accommodate a religious concept such as a god type being.. if you look at the history, you'll find that primarily it's been religion that's had to change itself to accommodate science. So, again, if we're talking about extrapolating future events based on historical trends.. it doesn't look good for your god concept becoming scientifically verified.
Still waiting for an example of science saying the world was flat, by the way.
@NomadSoul76 Religion has nothing to do with GOD, it was created by the guys that didn't understand what the Spiritual dudes were talking about, otherwise there'd just be a bunch of Spiritual dudes walking around, instead of all those religious guys sitting around talking themselves out of walking.
If you look VERY closely at history, you'll see it has a habit of lying, so is highly unreliable. The flat earth thing was what they told Chris when he wanted to go sailing.
And in the world of reality, "proof is in the experience" is called subjectivity and is politely ushered out of the door along with drug-fueled hallucinations, schizophrenic episodes and self-delusional fantasies.
@TheLivingDinosaur Have you ever heard of something called the "essential schizophrenic experience"? Essentially, it is the exact same thing as the paranoid experience EXCEPT, one has the tools to flow through the experience, while the other is lacking and feels as though they are drowning in it.
Now this "reality" you mention, falls under the category of subjectivity, which by your own account, should be "politely ushered out of the door".
@ancientclown No. The reality I mentioned is objectively & empirically measured with rulers, scales, telescopes, microscopes, spectrometers etc, and INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRMED BY OTHERS. If you say this whole objectively measured & internally consistent universe, including the billions of people in it, could be my hallucination, I can reply that it could equally be a god's dream, computer sim etc. I don't waste my time on untestable fantasies. I leave that to mental masturbators & the religious.
@TheLivingDinosaur Yet the existence of GOD has been "INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRMED BY OTHERS" for thousands of years. The word "reality" is itself subjective and considered by those enlightened to be illusion. Do you know what the TRUE meaning of the word Martyr is? (Hint:Dictionaries lie, yet the TRUTH can still be found there) Do you know the difference between Religious and Spiritual? There is a way to test for yourself, simply walk the talk, instead of talking yourself out of walking.
@ancientclown What part of my definition of what I regard as reality was unclear to you? Once last more - reality is what can be objectively and repeatedly observed and measured and verified by others. The existence of God had never been proved objectively, which is why his existence has been debated for thousands of years and is still being debated. Personal revelation (if that is what you are referring to) to entirely subjective and therefore not part of realty. Continued...
@ancientclown (Part 2) I am not interested in playing word games, so I don't care whether you think the word is subjective. The concept I am talking of is not, and that is the subject of the debate. Yes, I know the difference between religious and spiritual, and both are equally grounded in irrationality and mumbo-jumbo. As for the other parts of your comment, I would like to reply, but unfortunately I only speak English and am unable to respond to anything written in gibberish.
@TheLivingDinosaur Your definition of reality IS subjective, since it's YOUR DEFINITION and is the same as the dictionaries definition of Martyr. Can you provide the TRUE definition of "Martyr" for me?
The debate over GOD is between those who have walked and only know they are thinking, VS those who haven't, yet still think they know. Since you recognize that science is always changing, perhaps you shouldn't entirely discount things you don't understand and just seek more understanding.
@ancientclown The whole point of science to to improve understanding. We accept what we do not understand by saying "I don't know" & working toward correcting it. Replacing the unknown by whatever fantasy we find most appealing is not acceptable nor a route toward knowledge. Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc all truly believe they know the "truth" and yet all have the same evidence to back them up- zero. Why is "I don't know" less acceptable? It isn't, but at least it's more intellectually honest.
@TheLivingDinosaur Here's my catchphrase that represents intellectual honesty;
"I don't think I know...I just know I'm thinking." I asked you if you knew the difference between spiritual and religious, so why do you keep referring to religions instead of the spiritual dudes that attempted to share something with people. Jesus was Jewish, not Christian. Religions don't follow the teacher, they are lead by the preacher. So why don't you just admit you don't know and seek understanding.
@ancientclown As for the rest of your post - this is getting a little too weird for my taste. I prefer to conduct discussions with a soupcon more rationality and this one is rapidly veering into the Twilight Zone. I'll leave you to continue it with either your imaginary friend or the voices inside your head. Hope you have a nice day.
@TheLivingDinosaur Just before you go, I was wondering if you could please provide the TRUE definition of the word "Martyr". I've asked a couple of times but you keep skipping that in your responses. Once you figure that out, you'll begin to see just how much of an illusion reality is and how deep the lies go to cover the TRUTH.
desertphile, i appreciate your interest and research into native americans - i love the beautiful, ancient mythologies and traditions of native americans, and i am sickened by the way europeans came here and tried to snuff these out- much the way atheists are trying to do with religion nowadays. i am mostly a follower of christ, but i would never want to snuff out and replace the diversity of belief systems with my own, unless one was actively demanding destroying the sacred diversity of nature.
Our native brothers and sisters are STILL being snuffed out and slaughtered. The Europeans didn't understand a relaionship with the creator already existed. They lived more in the way of Christ's teachings than those that sought to teach them. They had a balance and respect for ALL of GOD's creation that is severly lacking in those that call themselves Civilized.
christianity is much like the ancient mythologies of native americans- beautiful cultural, moral markers which enlighten us to the evolution of man's relationship with the "supernatural". not to be taken overly seriously, but definitely not to be discarded. extremists on either side are absurd.
You ever seen one of Thunderf00t's videos where he quickly goes through a condensed list of the contributions science has made to modern life? I could fill this comment box with questions science has answered and barely even scratch the surface.
What answers has religion given us? I mean answers that don't conflict with a thousand other religions that all give different answers.
I used to think just like you, I hated religion, big time... but a few miracles being answered by prayer that science cant explain changed that. When a doctor gives someone with cancer only weeks to live and people pray in groups for that person and a week later the scans show no sign of cancer at all and the doctors test over and over and cant explain it... you can only put it down to prayers being answered by God. Im sorry but that was a factual event...
And as to the droves of people that get prayed over but die from cancer anyway.. your answer to that is.. what again? The parents who allow their children to die because they do nothing and expect their prayers to work, what does that prove?
You need to understand something. The fact that a single specific medical case did not go as you expected it to does not mean that science has explained nothing.
Unless, ya'know, you're typing this message to me on a divinely powered computer untouched by the hand of modern science in a grass thatched hut lit by the dying embers of the nightly fire.
Instead I suspect your life is inextricably linked to the products of science in more ways that you can comfortably comprehend. But you're happy saying that it provides no answers because of a single coincidence that you feel you witnessed.
I love science and technology and I hated religion less than 10 years ago. At the time a religious guy I worked with was going to report me for continously blasphemey. I threatened to kill him if he did and I meant it...... so I have thought like you do for most of my life, I know what youre thinking and how you feel.
as to "only humans" being able to use science and technology... well.. animals can invent and use simple tools, so any absolute distinction kind of breaks down there.
And as to your "I once was just like you".. no, I doubt it. If you were you wouldn't have been convinced by a single coincidence and been so happy to ignore all the other contradictory information.
If you were just like me you'd have seen that while you thought you had seen some people say magic words and invoke divine healing, there were an awful lot of other people who said the magic words but didn't get the divine healing. That would suggested that what you witnessed was a coincidence, not a miracle.
And no, I have not threatened to kill someone and meant it for being irritatingly religious.
You really have not thought like me most of your life.
no Ive thought like you for most of my life in bot believeing in God, not in everything.. The miracle didnt change me, it was long before that you might change you thoughts in years to come. Youd never agree to that now, just like I didnt 10 years ago. but we did think tha same for many years about religion. I felt extremely bad for religious people. . you are sad, Ive seen the comments on your channel, you feel the need to argue this regularly, and thats really sad.. dont reply.. bye.
You were quite specific. You said that you used to be just like me, and then detailed how you once threatened to murder someone.
No, you were never just like me.
You can run away if you like, I know your beliefs won't hold up to even casual scrutiny.
But I do find it interesting that you went from "science has no answers" to "science is so special that the very fact that it exists must be proof of the existence of god".
To repeat myself again, you are not and never were just like me.
It's sad that while you proudly declare your miraculous observation of healing (never mind that reality is probably far different from what you described) that whole problem with the countless others who did just what you did yet experienced no miracle can only be ignored.
You dare not address it. If you do your miracle evaporates before your eyes and leaves you back where you started.
If you need to believe in that, then fine. But don't come here expecting your vague personal anecdote to instantly convert everyone else when you'd never accept similar accounts from others unless they agreed with what you already needed to believe in.
I'm willing to discuss any points of contention. So far the only specific point upon which we initially disagreed you have since come about 180 degrees regarding. That is, your initial statement that science has no answers.
Is there anything else you wish to discuss? Or has that one incident lead you to decide that all you have left to do is hurl insults?
"by their fruits shall ye know them"... where have I heard that before...
I would not say that calling you agnorant was hurling an insult. I would say it is a scientific statement of fact.
Science still has no answer for the reason that the universe or life exists. Science disagrees with religion but offers absolutely not one single viable alternative.
Are you the person in this video and you post on several chhanels?
the "reason" the universe exists is mostly a category error. In a scientific context that's meaningless. What you want is philosophy. You're in luck, I have no interest in philosophy, you're free to contemplate your navel and wonder about the meaning of life all you want there.
But when you make egregiously stupid statements like "science offers not one single viable alternative" I take issue. Especially after you just said it was so marvelous that it must be proof of gods existence.
Beginning of life? That's called abiogenesis, and it's a fairly fertile field of research with a fair amount of ground already covered. We may well never know exactly how it happened because we don't have enough left over evidence, it may be that there are multiple ways it could have happened.
Beginning of the universe? I believe some smart chaps over in Switzerland have this machine that you may have heard about that will be probing that event.
These are what are known as viable alternatives. It turns out that there IS a better approach than just saying "well gee, I don't know and therefore nobody can know, I guess this bronze age mythology here is just as likely to be accurate as anything else".
I'm curious.. did you try ever try this on a math teacher? That maybe the answer to 2+2 is four, and maybe it's five, and it's just a matter of conflicting opinions?
I don't see how anybody can deny the excistence of God. How could an explosion create something? Have you ever seen a "non-destructive" explosion? Just take a look around you and you'll find proof. Just think of how complicated the human body is. The cells, all the organs, the brain? How could a major explosion create life? Explosions are destructive forces. And how could an explosion just come out of nowhere? I certainly hope that you someday will accept the truth..
T0bh 1 year ago
@T0bh ; "I don't see how anybody can deny the excistence of god."
There's no evidence they exist.
"How could an explosion create something?"
No.
Desertphile 1 year ago
@T0bh idiot
sadqwf 8 months ago
Okay, I just watched the other guy's video and he seems like an intelligent young guy regardless of weather he is right or wrong on this particular issue.
My question is why do you keep attacking him personally by constantly referring to him as a "clown"?
You show some real animosity to anyone who doesn't happen to agree with you.
According to your profile, you're 49 years old! Do you know how pathetic you sound? You seem like to act like a little kid trapped in an old man's body! Grow up
BloodOfRayne 1 year ago
@BloodOfRayne concern troll is very concerned.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
The origins of theism are a combination of ignorance about the workings of the natural world and anthropocentric bias.
"Gods" begin in ANIMISM - specific patterns of nature that are superficially observed having personal motive to them.
The origins of "GoD" ala monotheism in history syncs up to the emergence of philosophy and natural science. It is an image of human consciousness, not it's source. In part is it a consequence of a false appraisal of ourselves (the belief in "the soul.")
KosmicCitizen 2 years ago
Who created/caused the Big Bang? How is it hubris to say one God created the universe, when that one God SAID He did?
ECX0x100h 2 years ago
The valid question is one-half of wisdom. You're "question" shows you aren't even a half-wit.
Desertphile 2 years ago
How about just answering my question rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks? Who caused the Big Bang?
ECX0x100h 2 years ago
Look up what "ad hominem" means, idiot. Now then: ask a valid question and perhaps you will receive an answer.
Desertphile 2 years ago
Oh wow no we are awaiting your answer our master, the knowledgable fuck of the fuckers, please answer our questions. We know you are a genius who has won 9 nobel prizes.
Seriously, nobody gives a fuck what your opinions is, you retarded piece of shit.
1Mperios 2 years ago
Is that why you are watching his videos?
TheLivingDinosaur 2 years ago
bahahahahaahhahaa big bang created the universe, ahahah an explosion made a human with a brain... ahahaahhahahahah
chibeer 2 years ago
Jesus loves and cares for YOU!!!
Jesus died on the cross to save you from sin.
Message me if you want to know more about God.
christiancornerJC7 2 years ago
Keep your homosexual fantasies off my channel.
Desertphile 2 years ago
HAHAHAHAHHA! I LOVE YOU!
You have made my day
bratykrista 2 years ago
haha this guy makes me laugh
bettermusictoday 2 years ago
70 Percent of the internet is full of lies, and porn.
trick32190 2 years ago
@trick32190
actually, the internet only consists of about 1% porn.
Zentz29 2 years ago
@Zentz29
I have a friend that works for a internet company. Think before you speak
70 percent of the internet is all porn and all lies.
trick32190 2 years ago
@trick32190
you're an idiot...
Zentz29 2 years ago
what internet company?
XavierDrake 2 years ago
@XavierDrake
He works for Bell rogers. And his brother lives in the states and he works AT&T SO PZ MOTHER FUCKERSS
trick32190 2 years ago
this guys on crack
Jumpster8724 2 years ago
this guys an ass hole and he look very uninteligent
sonyyyyyyyyyyyyable 2 years ago
i am also intrigued by the mocking certainty with which you point to the big bang as the origin of the universe, and the fact that you say the universe is "still being created". didnt einstein point to the idea, which has been repeatedly reaffirmed, that matter and energy cannot be destroyed or created, but only interchanged? so where do you get this mocking certainty that the universe is "being created"?
artistandy77 2 years ago
"Mocking certainty" in science is called "convincing and conclusive evidence." There is no such thing as certainty in science: all facts are to be considered tentative. At the moment all of the available evidence tells us that the Big Bang happened and is still happening: if you have any evidence showing otherwise, please share it with the world (and win a few prizes in the process).
Desertphile 2 years ago
I don't care for prizes. I want cookies. Macaroons, at least a dozen.
NihilistImp 2 years ago
You do realize the ironic humour of your statement when you say: "There is no such thing as certainty in science" and then say; "all of the available evidence tells us that the Big Bang happened and is still happening".
It is also said that "Proof is in the experience". I have found that if you want to find your way to something, follow someone who's already been there.
If you literally follow the path of Christ, you will find GOD and have your proof.
I did.
ancientclown 2 years ago
There is no conflict in saying that there is no absolute certainty, but that all of the information that we do have supports a specific conclusion.
It may be said that "proof is in the experience".. but not by anyone whose opinions matter the slightest bit to me. You should know how mistaken personal experience can be. Personal experience is highly prized by those that have nothing else to rely on, that doesn't mean it's a useful indicator.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
Einstein thought it was important when he PROVED light was both Particle AND Wave, when science said nothing can be BOTH.
Who does your uniformed OPINION matter too? I didn't figure you'd respect my informed opinion that's why I gave you a method of informing your own. Then you would have some actual information with which to draw a conclusion.
Experience is also the BEST teacher. I don't think I know...I just know I'm thinking.
ancientclown 2 years ago
he "proved" nothing. Learn some basic concepts in science. Proof only exists in mathematics.
He supplied an explanation that worked. He provided mathematical models which agreed with observation.
Can you do better?
Of course not. That's why you're babbling on youtube.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
@NomadSoul76 Let's review. You said; "he "proved" nothing...Proof only exists in mathematics...He provided mathematical models which agreed with observation."
Sure sounds to me like you just admitted HE PROVED it.
Let's meet in the middle; I'll admit that just because I say it doesn't mean it's true and you admit that just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Again, no. It doesn't mean he proved it. What part of "proof isn't a scientific concept" are you not clear on? Science deals in degrees of uncertainty.
This is an old enough thread that I don't really know what your comment is in relation to any more.. but proof just DOES NOT EXIST IN THE REALM OF SCIENCE. When someone says "prove it" you have to explain to them how they're mistaken because you can't prove ANYTHING. Just demonstrate how it's well supported.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@ancientclown if you think "mathematical models" means this is a mathematical scenario so proof is relevant.. NO. Really, no. We're talking in the realms of pure math, proofs of esoteric mathematical problems. Like one that was recently solved by a Russian mathematician.. I don't remember what the problem was called, but the point is he provided that sort of a proof.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Mathematically speaking, isn't it impossible for a bumblebee to fly? Didn't your science used to believe the Earth was flat, that nothing was smaller than an atom, etc. I'm simply saying, science and math is limited. In numerous ways, what was once considered science fiction has become science fact. Those who use science as their religion are like those who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. Be a scientist and find GOD yourself, HINT: you'll need to be humble.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Science never claims to know the absolute truth - if it did it would never change & improve. The fact that theories change shows this. Science tries to formulate the best descriptions of reality based on the available objective data. When new data arise, theories change. However, they only improve. Each change is a refinement that provides a more accurate description. Just because science changes or is incomplete doesn't mean that you get to substitute fantasy and wishful thinking.
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur You may wish to consider the Imaginative have always lead the way, while the scientific has always been years behind it. It's funny how "left brain" folks base so much on that which is, as you admit, incomplete.
I guess that's why the wise have always said; The one with imagination is far more powerful than the one with all the facts.
P.S. Wisdom is not the Accumulation of Knowledge, but rather it is the proper Application of Knowledge. Do not seek to know, seek to be wise.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Right, just like the "imaginative" thought it a good idea to treat psychoses by drilling holes in peoples' skulls to let out demons while the scientific have "lagged" by insisting on developing psychotherapy and anti-psychotic drugs. And you may not have noticed, that the drugs of the past weren't as good as the drugs of today because our knowledge has grown. Nevertheless they are all better than holes in the head. I assume you'll be opting for the drill if you ever need treatment?
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Factually speaking, that would have been scientific doctors that came up with drilling, shocking, drugging, etc. You also might want to investigate the number of suicides/homicides that have occurred as a result of those anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs, not sure if it's wise using corrupt Big Pharma to help your argument. (Drugs are bad, don't do drugs).
P.S. Cops tried to have me committed after failing in killing me. I passed with flying colors& have copy of results
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown About the bumble.. no, seriously, no.
I'm not sure where you can find "science" saying the world was flat. You can find examples of science contradicting that view, but..
It always amuses me when the history of science correcting itself in order to achieve a better understanding of the nature of reality is used to try to suggest that it is somehow innately flawed. I'm downright puzzled that you find blindly accepting something without questioning to be a superior solution.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Assumptions are not very scientific of you. I don't blindly accept anything. I find out for myself, and only suggested you do likewise. After years of questioning I found Jesus left the best road-map.
The BIG BANG, as you like to call it, happened when GOD said; "Let there be light". If science has a history of always correcting itself, that means it also has a history of being incorrect. Have you considered the possibility that science may yet correct itself concerning GOD?
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Okay, so there's two parts to your comment that need to be responded to. Your anecdotal evidence regarding the existence of a supernatural entity may be very convincing to you, but you'll understand if it has zero significance for me since I haven't experienced it. It can't be replicated, it can't be investigated. So it's not particularly helpful.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 My friend; It can be replicated and investigated, you need only "Walk in the Way". Take nothing on your journey and you'll find everything you need, exactly when and where you need it. You'll also gain a much deeper understanding of the differences between wants and needs.
Keep in mind though, coincidences are the lazy one's way of explaining events so they don't have to think about it any further.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown And here we reach the same old impasse. We're at the point where you tell me that I just have to seek out this supernatural entity. Ultimately I have to believe in it first and then somehow I'll find it. This is NOT science, you've got to be joking when you suggest that this sort of sloppy thinking is going to ultimately be integrated into science.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Actually, you don't have to believe anything. Beliefs are frail and unstable. It's best not to begin with lots of preconceptions. It's simply an experiment, which IS science. Sloppy thinking is drawing conclusions without any of the data, or simply accepting that which you've been given.
Since you like math and formulas, you could investigate the "Law of Life" I wrote. Google- ancient clown- click Ancient's History(1st on list) find "Law of Life" on sidebar. read comments as well.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown As to coincidences.. don't make me laugh. Citing coincidences as evidence of the supernatural is the lazy man's proof for god. Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day, that doesn't mean an invisible man in the sky is guiding the hands.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 As to coincidences...Well you know what it said, but you obviously don't know what it means. What if man with broken watch keeps asking others for the time and it's always in triple digits.(ie. 1:11 or 2:22, etc.) It might be time to think a little harder.
TIME, get it?
I'm sorry, you asked me not to make you laugh.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown I asked you to try to remind you that the human mind seeks out patterns and will see them where they don't exist. Claiming coincidences as evidence of the divine is just sloppy theology. It says that you need a reason to believe but aren't going to be too picky about what you accept. You're just looking for an excuse, not evidence. I am a little dismayed that you referred to this approach as an experiment, though.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You still don't understand. I'm not claiming coincidences as evidence of the divine, I'm stating simply, I don't believe in them. Everything happens for a reason, or as Einstein/scientist? said; "God doesn't play dice with the Universe".
Again, you know what it says, but still don't know what it means. My reference to an experiment had nothing to do with coincidences and everything to do with the journey itself.
Did you research Ancient's Law of Life? I used a mathematical formula.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You might also take into consideration that the human mind can also find patterns where they DO exist. This is what lets you see the 3D image amidst the repetitive patterns in those art posters. It truly depends on how you look at it, as to whether or not you will see it. Just because YOU don't see it, doesn't mean it stops existing or was never there. The same can be said for the search for the Divine.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown You do know that "God doesn't play dice with the universe" was a statement of Einstein's doubting of quantum theory, right? And that Einstein turned out to be wrong, that "god" does indeed play dice? It's quite likely that the hard drive in your computer is using a quantum principle to function.
You need something more than "well gee, it looks like a pattern to me, it must be evidence of a magical man in the sky". It just doesn't work like that.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Yes, he was mistaken about quantum theory, which again shows how limited science is, yet strange that a scientist should make such a reference when you say science doesn't believe in God, yet so many scientists do. You are aware that quite a few of them(scientists) were actually trying to find proof of God right? That they held deep spiritual beliefs of their own. They just went about it in the wrong way, instead of "walking in the way".
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Oh now this is fun. Scientists are using the the wrong method? So tell me, instead of learning about the natural world around us and developing the technology that's made the modern world possible, just what should they have been doing?
Pondering the nature of imaginary formulas that use imaginary units that can't be measured and that don't actually apply to reality? Redefining coincidence in order to support a theology of convenience?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Your modern world is on the verge of collapse, so I don't see how you can think it's made a continued existence possible. What it has made is a great deal of pollution, destruction and extinction. In fact, you could say that the only thing the modern world has truly invented is GARBAGE, since everything it makes ends up there. That would not indicate they have really learned much about the natural world. I think it's funny that you think YOU are imaginary and not a part of reality.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Interesting. Would you care to point out where I said that I think I am imaginary?
Could it be that you just invented this to run away from your "law" that you know won't stand up to a second's scrutiny? I'm very happy that you've been able to live by doing what you love, but you can't be so self involved to think that that works for everyone.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Sure buddy, when you said;"I use imaginary units that can't be measured and that don't actually apply to reality". Remember YOU are one of the units, the OTHER one is NEEDS, which can be measured as; that which you cannot survive without. Wants are another matter altogether.
It's because I'm NOT self involved and don't think I'm so special that I think it works for everyone. Can the blind still See the solution, can the deaf still Listen to wisdom?
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown So once again, in what unit is "me" measured? And what is the compatible unit that "happiness" is measured in?
Does this mean that bigger people get more happiness? Are short people doomed to be less happy simply because there's less of them to get the happiness?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 What unit does science measure YOU in? Afterall it was you that said if it can't be measured it doesn't apply or exist in reality. I figured you would know what unit science uses to measure you so you can be sure you exist and are not just imaginary.
That second part...ROFLMAOPMP. Thank you. Right from the belly that laugh came bursting forth. Seriously though, not sure why you're going on about happiness as I never mentioned the word once in my entire post.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown For that matter I'd still like to see you explain what you think scientists should be doing. They've succeeded in learning a great deal about the reality in which we live, but that appears to threaten you. You don't want to know, do you? I'd imagine that you'd prefer to believe that rainbows are manifestations of supernatural forces rather than an atmospheric optical phenomenon.
But then what you really want is no science, surely. Not a different kind.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Scientists could greatly benefit from Walking in the Way first. To find the right answers you must first learn how to ask the right questions. If they now understand that the observer effects the outcome, then HOW they observe would also effect the outcome. Science lacks the tools to measure Intuition and Empathy, yet they are as much a part of your senses as your eyes and ears, but enhance your ability to see and listen. You have 7 senses, not just 5. Learn to use them.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown As to your law of life.. I made the mistake of looking it up.
You're a stoner, aren't you? This is the sort of thing people who are high on marijuana come up with and think is deep wisdom. They never notice that this big idea can't actually be applied to anything. They can't get over their fondness of it to realize that it's meaningless.
Tell me. What units is "you" measured in? In what form are you quantifying happiness?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Perhaps it's meaning is just too deep for a surface thinker. I guess everybody commenting must be stoners too eh?. You do know the difference between rules and laws right? What mankind calls laws in it's judicial system are actually rules. It's application is simple and becomes a part of life, instead of working for money to get what you want, do what you love for free and you will always get what you need. It's been working for me for over 15 yrs.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown So explain it to me. What units do you measure "you" in? How about happiness, what units is that measured in?
It's not a law, it's weak sauce amateur hour philosophy. Philosophy that's demonstrably false, mind you. All I need to do is show one person that's failed to survive simply by doing what they loved and your "natural law" is done.
So, shall we put your "law" to the test?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 The same ones science uses to measure YOU in I guess. You do exist right? You can use science to measure you and PROVE you are a part of reality right? Surely science can measure your consciousness and sub-consciousness as well.
You say you only need one person to not survive for it to be a failure, yet I can show you millions that have not survived the Law of Man. Please do put it to the test, you can use the Words of Christ as a guide (Mark 6:8-11). Get back to me when your done.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown What exactly do you mean by the law of man? And why do you think that pointing out the failure of some other law has any bearing on the demonstrable failure of your supposed law to reflect reality? I mean, other than it appearing that you're trying to distract the discussion again to avoid putting your special claims to any sort of test.
Read up on the fallacy of the false dichotomy. Refuting one concept does not automatically support another.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You said you checked it out. The Law of Man was mentioned first
a+c=d (you+cash=what you want). This is the formula man has followed for the past few thousand years, regardless of Politics, Religion, Race, etc. It can be seen worldwide. You misunderstand again, I was only highlighting man's formula to be a failure due to the enormous death rate and failed survival. I thought you WERE testing mine, I said PLEASE DO. Are you back already?
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Actually I think this is an interesting question. So does a morbidly obese 500 pound person get more happiness than an individual of healthy weight? Or is "me" measured as "one", which means happiness is simply "one" as well? Just how much use can you get out of "one" happiness?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Again, not sure why you're still going on about "happiness", as I never once used the word. However, since we're on the subject, perhaps you could tell me how science measures happiness, or love. They do exist in your reality don't they?
Perhaps happiness sticks to fat cells that's why some obese people are thought of as Jolly. They are so happy they could just burst.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Now here is where things get interesting. In the comment I'm responding to you state you don't believe in coincidences. The thing is, you just recently accepted that they exist. Remember, the stopped clocking giving the right time twice a day?
So you appear to understand that coincidences do exist, yet days later state that you don't believe in them. It's a bad sign that you have to hide away things you know to be true to support your spirituality.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Actually the clock being right twice a day was YOUR interpretation of coincidence not mine, I classify that as just common sense, not coincidence. Though I suppose if you lack common sense you may see it that way. I actually mentioned something quite different about time that refutes coincidence. It's a bad sign when you start saying things that simply aren't true to support your science.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown It's not an "interpretation", it is a coincidence. A coincidence that can't fail to happen when you're dealing with a broken analog clock. You didn't so much refute it as quickly try to change the subject because you had no response to it yet you've built your philosophy on denying that it could even happen.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Clearly you don't know what the word means; (WEBSTER) "the occurrence of events that happen at the same time by accident, but seem to have some connection." Therefore your broken clock nonsense doesn't fit this description and is not an example of coincidence. I didn't change the subject, but gave you a different concept to consider.
You also keep confusing lack of beliefs with denying existence. Let me clarify, I acknowledge that George Bush exists, but I don't believe in him.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown So you're saying that the two minutes each day during which a stopped analog clock gives the correct time do not occur by accident? It's intentional that the clock is showing the correct time even though it's not functioning?
I'm puzzled by the second part of this comment as well. Are you telling me you acknowledge the existence of meaningless coincidences, but you choose not to believe in them to support your theology? That's actually basically what I said you were doing.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 It's not by accident, it would be impossible for it NOT to be correct twice a day, unless the hands fell off.
NO, I'm telling you meaningless coincidences go unnoticed, if it becomes noticed it is NOT a coincidence, it is synchronicity. Ever watch the TV show NCIS, (good show) Gibbs doesn't believe in coincidences either. Can't argue with THAT!!!
If you want to uncover the depth of lies and definitions within your reality, give TRUE definition of "Martyr" for me.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Now if the dictionary had defined coincidence as; "the occurrence of events that happen at the same time seemingly by accident, but actually have some connection." That would be another matter entirely, but by putting the word "seems" in the wrong place(did you notice?) they define a word that gets misused by lazy people unwilling to think about it further.(not you, other people).
P.S. I really do want you to give the TRUE meaning of Martyr.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown So let's talk about coincidences. I saw an item in the news recently.. a man had taken his girlfriend on a scenic hike because he was planning to propose to her. He had taken her to a special place to pop the question. But before he could do it she was struck by lightning and killed.
Was this a coincidence? Or was this done for a reason? Is this what he gets for doing what he enjoyed? What does your law have to say about this?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Learn what it means first.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown You didn't answer my question. Is it intentional for it to be correct for two minutes every day even though it's broken?
If it's not intentional then it is by accident, isn't it? The clock is not specifically designed in order to still show the correct time twice a day when it ceases to function.
Your philosophy is all tied up in trying to attach magical significance to chance occurrences. You're not the first, nor will you be the last to do so.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 I did answer your question. It is impossible for it not to tell the correct time twice a day, thereby making it no accident. It's funny, I mentioned to some folks that you thought a broken clock being right twice a day was an example of a coincidence and they burst out laughing. You have no idea what my philosophy is about since you even have trouble understanding what coincidence means.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Now please answer mine. What is the TRUE definition of the word MARTYR? I've asked you a couple of times and even left a P.S.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Here's the thing. You accept that the stopped clock coincidence will happen but deny that it's a coincidence because you understand the mechanism behind it. But you cling to other coincidences simply because you don't understand them. If you're ignorant of the psychological or probabalistic nature of the event you seize upon it as evidence of the supernatural, when rational people understand that you can't NOT see these things, kinda like the clock can't avoid being right.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Here's the thing, I've never accepted a stopped clock telling the right time twice daily is even a correct example of the word coincidence, as it's defined. Second, I clearly stated I don't believe in coincidences so can hardly cling to them.
That you continue to make such glaring errors in your comments shows a limited ability to understand and comprehend. When you continue to make things up that were never said nor implied shows you suffer from delusions.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Your definition of coincidence is a very curious thing. Don't even pretend to quote a dictionary, you couldn't follow that through for even one comment cycle. You quoted "accidental" as being important, yet never could seem to point out to me where a clock was intended to be correct twice a day even if it's broken.
What you mean is that you understand the mechanism through which this coincidence occurs, so therefore you disregard it.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Search "Online Dictionary" goto Websters and type in Coincidence. I copy/pasted it.
Now for the last time; A clock is designed with the intentions of telling the correct time. Even when it's broken those intentions remain twice a day. It is no accident nor coincidence. It is doing exactly as it was intended to do. Period.
You obviously have no clue as to what I mean, even when I say it as simply as possible.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown In other words, coincidences are your god of the gaps. If you don't understand the mechanisms at work then you demand the right to declare it a magical occurrence. Your ignorance becomes proof.
And sometimes when you do understand it you just decide to ignore it. For instance you've accepted that the human mind has a tendency to find patterns even where they don't exist. But you still declare that if you think you see a pattern it must therefore be real. Willful ignorance.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NomadSoul76 Actually it was YOU that said; "the human mind has a tendency to find patterns even where they don't exist" I actually disagreed and said patterns do exist and provided the hidden 3D puzzles as example.
Here's a basic math problem, Please provide the answer for ? and explain how you got your answer.
1) 3,6,9,? (what is ?)
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown But when you come prancing in here trying to throw out half assed formulas that can't actually be applied to anything, and then try to get philosophical by asserting that everything has meaning and then citing your assertion as proof that everything has meaning.. someone WILL notice that you're doing nothing more than engaging in circular reasoning to give you a warm happy feeling.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You've clearly demonstrated you know what it says, but have no idea what it means. Just like the people that used Darwin's Theory of Evolution to try and say that was proof there is no GOD. Darwin thought quite the opposite and was actually quite upset at the suggestion.
Most people don't realize that it was only the fundamentalists in the U.S. that had a problem with Evolution, not anyone with Faith in God. There is no contradiction, only evidence of His grand design. (a=b)
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Isn't it funny how "evidence of his grand design" is indistinguishable from "understanding of a natural process"? Have you ever noticed how if you drop the god part the understanding and the explanation remains the same?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Isn't it funny that it was the same scientist DARWIN that came up with the theory of evolution that found it as evidence of God's Grand Design and not something that happened by accident, but by design.
Have you ever noticed the same scientists that have advanced science have themselves been believers in GOD. Strange that ignorant people would try to use that same science to say there is no GOD when science itself has no such proof.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown I've asked you before how a scientist is supposed to employ your empty headed theistic beliefs to better do their job as you claim they should be doing.
Let's say we're talking about an infectious diseases researcher working on ways to cure a particularly difficult to treat disease. How does adding your fuzzy concept of god into the process allow them to better treat the disease? What do they do differently other than pay lip service to the divine and then do their work normally
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 By understanding the mind, body and soul are all aspects of the same being and when one is out of balance it becomes evident by showing up in the others. (It's usually anal people that get colon cancer). In TRUTH, your doctors do nothing to heal people, they are only concerned with prescribing drugs to treat the symptoms. Cannabis cures cancer and kills brain tumors, yet has been lied about and made illegal by corrupt men for corporate gain.(Oil, lumber, Pharmaceutical, etc)
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown You talk about the soul.. you're going to have to demonstrate that such a thing exists first. And I'd very much like a citation to this "anal people get colon cancer" bullshit.
The rest of this I can't even deal with. You're going to be happy to rely upon conspiracy delusions. The lack of evidence in support of your interests is going to be proof of the conspiracy and the lack of refutations of the stuff you're arguing against is also going to be proof of the conspiracy.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 As soon as you provide the true definition of the word MARTYR we can continue.
I've given you evidence of corruption and there is much more out there should you choose to investigate it honestly instead of making excuses.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown This is a fascinating approach. Really it is. You're getting your ass handed to you on the numerous avenues that you've already opened. Your "law" explains nothing and is easily falsifiable, so you had to redefine it so it means even less and approaches the level of tautology, but fails to even make that much sense.
For coincidence you've now openly stated that a clock is intentionally designed to give the correct twice for two minutes every day when it's broken.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 ROFLMAOPMP You continually lie when pretending to quote me, are unable to understand the simplest of statements and keep providing improper examples for coincidences, despite me providing you with the dictionary definition and suffer from delusions to such an extent that you think this means I'm having my ass handed to me.
WOW!!!
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Not content with these points you want to open a NEW avenue. You want to get to discussing something apparently unrelated to the current discussions. Could it be that you realize that you're dying here and are in desperate need of a diversion? Could this be the "what's that behind you???" maneuver in action?
I'm not biting. If you're content to leave it at "clocks are designed to show the correct time when broken" and "if it's true for me then it's a universal law" then fine.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Only you would say the true definition of the word Martyr is unrelated to a discussion about GOD.
Could it be that despite me asking for this definition throughout our discussion, you have kept avoiding it because you don't know and don't want to admit the dictionary is lying. Much like you didn't know what a coincidence was and tried to say it was a broken clock telling the right time twice a day.
But if you don't want to learn anything, that's fine by me. Take care.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Since you're so interested in pointing out where people are making stuff up, I'd like for you to quote the part of my comments where I said that the word martyr is unrelated to the concept of am imaginary man in the sky.
I said that it was an attempt to distract the conversation away from areas where you're floundering. And you are.
You're floundering so bad that you have to lie about what I've said in almost the same breath that you accuse me of lying about what you've said.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NomadSoul76 Since this whole post is related to the existence or non-existence of GOD and our discussions branch out from there. While you were the one trying to distract from that discussion by continually misquoting, providing inaccurate descriptions for words like coincidence(even after I gave you a direct quote from an online dictionary) and when I tried to bring us back to topic, you said; "You want to get to discussing something apparently unrelated to the current discussions." Simple.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown About the only final thing I have to say is that I called it. You're a stoner who thinks that his chemically induced thoughts are divine revelations. I was really just joking when I said that what you're saying sounds like stoner philosophy, but then you went and said that stuff about marijuana curing cancer.
Look, I'm all in favor of legalization, it's not exactly good for you but outlawing it has far worse repercussions.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 First off, I'm not for legalization. It should be eliminated from the criminal code entirely as the only reason it's there is because of corrupt American Politicians. It would be nice if you educated yourself about these things before commenting, or even after I point them out to you, rather than continue your stupidity. In TRUTH, cannabis IS good for you. It grows brain cells, not kills them like alcohol does. You have receptors in your brain designed to ONLY accept Pot. Research.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown You claim pot "grows" brain cells. You can now either cite evidence of this extraordinary claim or admit that you're bullshitting.
Your choice.
Given your history of making ridiculous, evidence free claims let's say I'm not holding my breath for the admission of evidence this time.
I'm also puzzled about how you claim that it's so good for you moments after you explained how all this knowledge came to you while abstaining from it. Somehow I just don't believe that.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Sorry this took so long, been offline for awhile.
You can research here (user/EssiacHempLaetrile). There's lots more out there if you are inclined to search honestly.
Please don't take the wrong way, but I don't care what you BELIEVE, I'm only sharing the TRUTH. I was mostly a drinker in my 20's, I began my spiritual journey at 30 and quit drinking and abstained from everything while I was searching and learning the TRUTH.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown But at some point you're going to need to learn that the stuff you think the drug is teaching to you comes from meddling with your neurochemistry, not an invisible magical man in the sky.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 At some point, you will need to eliminate your prejudice, arrogance and stupidity. FYI, when I began my spiritual journey it included the elimination of all substances like alcohol, pot, mushrooms, etc and attain a state of clarity and honesty. It was a journey of self awareness that included the elimination of lies both to myself and others.
Everything learned on this journey was done so substance free. Including the TRUTH about these same substances.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Or, put another way, what would NOT be evidence of "his grand design"? Evolution? Evidence. Gravity? Evidence. What if we found flying zombie monkeys? Presumably that would also be evidence. What is the value of going around declaring that everything you see, no matter what, is evidence of the same thing? A theory that explains any possible observation explains nothing.
You've just slipped down a few notches from weaksauce philosophy to cheerfully embracing dogma.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 said "What is the value of going around declaring that everything you see, no matter what, is evidence of the same thing?" Funny, you just described how most people use the word coincidence. They, like you, don't even know what the word means so use it incorrectly.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Disproving your little "law" is simplicity in itself. How many millions are existing in conditions of poverty worldwide, desperately fighting just to get enough food to continue living? According to your law they should stop fighting and just have fun. Just do what they enjoy and they'll survive.
Does this sound like a workable approach, or does it sound like warm fuzzy bullshit that only makes sense because you live in a wealthy country and are reasonably secure?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You still don't understand. Those millions that live in poverty do so because of the corruption of man's formula (a+c=d). If they labored for what they needed, instead of working to make the rich richer and keeping themselves poor they WOULD be better off. If people like yourself stop supporting the theft of all their food, water and life sustaining needs, they WOULD be better off. Rich countries STEAL from the poor ones. Buy bottled water? It was stolen and resold.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown now you're really going off the deep end. Bottled water was stolen?
Bottled water is simply water from usual water supplies run through unnecessary extra filtration steps. I'm starting to think you don't live in the same reality that I do, as if you're using some sort of interdimensional network link and sending communications back from some strange parallel world.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 REALLY? Perhaps search "BLUE GOLD" or "FLOW-For Love Of Water" and educate yourself. You are correct about one thing though, we don't live in the same reality, considering yours is an illusion filled with delusions and corruptions of how things REALLY are. You don't have the proper definitions or examples of the terminology you use. You still haven't even provided the TRUE definition of Martyr, despite me asking multiple times.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Now then.. your "formula" seems to be changing even as you defend it. You originally defined it as somehow saying that everything you need is already there waiting for you to take it. Now your argument is sort of mutating into something else.. as stated here it seems to be "you should work to fulfill your needs rather than the needs of others".
And you think this is a surprising or special revelation?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Clearly you still don't understand nor comprehend what my formula means, so claim it's changing when you incorrectly quoted; "you should work to fulfill your needs rather than the needs of others". I never said this nor implied it, so you're not quoting me. Your wording also demonstrates you don't understand the differences between wants and needs, nor work and labor.
You hear, but do not listen and look, but do not see.
I can only point this out, it's up to you to change it.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Can you understand that "it works for me, so it must be true for every other human being on this planet" is bullshit? Are you capable of understanding that other people do not exist in the same circumstances in which you do?
Put more simply, you do you realize that there is a physical world outside your door that doesn't care what metaphysical bullshit you cling to to get you through your day?
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Can you understand I never once said it works for me ALONE. You keep thinking I'm the only one who has lived by this formula. I don't know why you are still talking to me when you should be out walking and testing.
Put more simply, you do realize there is a spiritual world outside you that DOES care how much you kill and destroy to get through your day.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown I never said you said it works for you alone. I said that you said it's a universal formula, which is demonstrably false. You claimed it works for EVERYONE, and that's trivially simple to falsify. I find it interesting that you seem to have heard the exact opposite of what I said, though.
"out walking and testing".. huh? The testing has been done. People die through lack of food or basic medical care. Your "formula" doesn't apply to reality as we know it.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 You said; "it works for me, so it must be true for every other human being on this planet is bullshit" which implies it really only works for me and is therefore not universal. Yet, It's worked for everyone that has used it, which makes it pretty universal.
When you said; "The testing has been done". You lied, because you didn't do anything, but make yet another decision based on fear and greed. AGAIN, What does Martyr really mean?
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Let's focus on this statement:
"it works for me, so it must be true for every other human being on this planet is bullshit"
In other words, just because something works for you is not proof that it works for every other single human being on the planet. That is what I said.
You somehow completely inverted this to mean "it only works for you". I never said anything remotely resembling that.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Let's focus instead on how you keep quoting things I never said. Let's focus on how this demonstrates your lack of understanding and comprehension.
Then let's focus on how you've still refused to provide the REAL definition of the word MARTYR despite the number of times I've asked.
Now let's hold the focus there for a moment until you DO provide that definition and not get sidetracked with your delusions.
The word MARTYR truly means...
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown I was simply attempting to point out that "hey, it works for me and therefore this proves that it's a universal law that applies to every single human being in the world" is an absurd claim.
I was very close to a lightning strike during a storm and survived. Using your shoddy logic I should proceed to declare that no one can be struck by lightning and that it's fine to go outside during an electrical storm.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 An example of an "absurd claim" is to continue to quote something I never said as MY CLAIM.
The rest is your shoddy logic, not mine. Don't blame me for your stupidity.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown Now, regarding science changing itself to accommodate a religious concept such as a god type being.. if you look at the history, you'll find that primarily it's been religion that's had to change itself to accommodate science. So, again, if we're talking about extrapolating future events based on historical trends.. it doesn't look good for your god concept becoming scientifically verified.
Still waiting for an example of science saying the world was flat, by the way.
NomadSoul76 1 year ago
@NomadSoul76 Religion has nothing to do with GOD, it was created by the guys that didn't understand what the Spiritual dudes were talking about, otherwise there'd just be a bunch of Spiritual dudes walking around, instead of all those religious guys sitting around talking themselves out of walking.
If you look VERY closely at history, you'll see it has a habit of lying, so is highly unreliable. The flat earth thing was what they told Chris when he wanted to go sailing.
ancientclown 1 year ago
And in the world of reality, "proof is in the experience" is called subjectivity and is politely ushered out of the door along with drug-fueled hallucinations, schizophrenic episodes and self-delusional fantasies.
TheLivingDinosaur 2 years ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Have you ever heard of something called the "essential schizophrenic experience"? Essentially, it is the exact same thing as the paranoid experience EXCEPT, one has the tools to flow through the experience, while the other is lacking and feels as though they are drowning in it.
Now this "reality" you mention, falls under the category of subjectivity, which by your own account, should be "politely ushered out of the door".
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown No. The reality I mentioned is objectively & empirically measured with rulers, scales, telescopes, microscopes, spectrometers etc, and INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRMED BY OTHERS. If you say this whole objectively measured & internally consistent universe, including the billions of people in it, could be my hallucination, I can reply that it could equally be a god's dream, computer sim etc. I don't waste my time on untestable fantasies. I leave that to mental masturbators & the religious.
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Yet the existence of GOD has been "INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRMED BY OTHERS" for thousands of years. The word "reality" is itself subjective and considered by those enlightened to be illusion. Do you know what the TRUE meaning of the word Martyr is? (Hint:Dictionaries lie, yet the TRUTH can still be found there) Do you know the difference between Religious and Spiritual? There is a way to test for yourself, simply walk the talk, instead of talking yourself out of walking.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown What part of my definition of what I regard as reality was unclear to you? Once last more - reality is what can be objectively and repeatedly observed and measured and verified by others. The existence of God had never been proved objectively, which is why his existence has been debated for thousands of years and is still being debated. Personal revelation (if that is what you are referring to) to entirely subjective and therefore not part of realty. Continued...
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@ancientclown (Part 2) I am not interested in playing word games, so I don't care whether you think the word is subjective. The concept I am talking of is not, and that is the subject of the debate. Yes, I know the difference between religious and spiritual, and both are equally grounded in irrationality and mumbo-jumbo. As for the other parts of your comment, I would like to reply, but unfortunately I only speak English and am unable to respond to anything written in gibberish.
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Your definition of reality IS subjective, since it's YOUR DEFINITION and is the same as the dictionaries definition of Martyr. Can you provide the TRUE definition of "Martyr" for me?
The debate over GOD is between those who have walked and only know they are thinking, VS those who haven't, yet still think they know. Since you recognize that science is always changing, perhaps you shouldn't entirely discount things you don't understand and just seek more understanding.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown The whole point of science to to improve understanding. We accept what we do not understand by saying "I don't know" & working toward correcting it. Replacing the unknown by whatever fantasy we find most appealing is not acceptable nor a route toward knowledge. Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc all truly believe they know the "truth" and yet all have the same evidence to back them up- zero. Why is "I don't know" less acceptable? It isn't, but at least it's more intellectually honest.
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Here's my catchphrase that represents intellectual honesty;
"I don't think I know...I just know I'm thinking." I asked you if you knew the difference between spiritual and religious, so why do you keep referring to religions instead of the spiritual dudes that attempted to share something with people. Jesus was Jewish, not Christian. Religions don't follow the teacher, they are lead by the preacher. So why don't you just admit you don't know and seek understanding.
Honestly.
ancientclown 1 year ago
@ancientclown As for the rest of your post - this is getting a little too weird for my taste. I prefer to conduct discussions with a soupcon more rationality and this one is rapidly veering into the Twilight Zone. I'll leave you to continue it with either your imaginary friend or the voices inside your head. Hope you have a nice day.
TheLivingDinosaur 1 year ago
@TheLivingDinosaur Just before you go, I was wondering if you could please provide the TRUE definition of the word "Martyr". I've asked a couple of times but you keep skipping that in your responses. Once you figure that out, you'll begin to see just how much of an illusion reality is and how deep the lies go to cover the TRUTH.
ancientclown 1 year ago
desertphile, i appreciate your interest and research into native americans - i love the beautiful, ancient mythologies and traditions of native americans, and i am sickened by the way europeans came here and tried to snuff these out- much the way atheists are trying to do with religion nowadays. i am mostly a follower of christ, but i would never want to snuff out and replace the diversity of belief systems with my own, unless one was actively demanding destroying the sacred diversity of nature.
artistandy77 2 years ago
Our native brothers and sisters are STILL being snuffed out and slaughtered. The Europeans didn't understand a relaionship with the creator already existed. They lived more in the way of Christ's teachings than those that sought to teach them. They had a balance and respect for ALL of GOD's creation that is severly lacking in those that call themselves Civilized.
ancientclown 2 years ago
christianity is much like the ancient mythologies of native americans- beautiful cultural, moral markers which enlighten us to the evolution of man's relationship with the "supernatural". not to be taken overly seriously, but definitely not to be discarded. extremists on either side are absurd.
artistandy77 2 years ago
you should do stand up comedy :)
you made me laugh..
have a great weekend.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
You dont have a real answer do you? I used to be anti religion, still am with some stupid violent ones...
but the scientific theories just cant answer anything...
The miracles that make it possible for all this life on our planet, for DNA, all just happened to come together in one place, how lucky are we?
Give up and realise that theres every chance that a God really exists...
so far youve shown no eveidence that a God didnt exist...
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
Well, you see... there's also every chance that an invisible pink unicorn lives in my left pants pocket.
Yet somehow I'll bet that you won't spend one minute contemplating that concept, even though you've shown no evidence that it doesn't exist.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
As to science being able to answer nothing..
You ever seen one of Thunderf00t's videos where he quickly goes through a condensed list of the contributions science has made to modern life? I could fill this comment box with questions science has answered and barely even scratch the surface.
What answers has religion given us? I mean answers that don't conflict with a thousand other religions that all give different answers.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
I used to think just like you, I hated religion, big time... but a few miracles being answered by prayer that science cant explain changed that. When a doctor gives someone with cancer only weeks to live and people pray in groups for that person and a week later the scans show no sign of cancer at all and the doctors test over and over and cant explain it... you can only put it down to prayers being answered by God. Im sorry but that was a factual event...
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
And as to the droves of people that get prayed over but die from cancer anyway.. your answer to that is.. what again? The parents who allow their children to die because they do nothing and expect their prayers to work, what does that prove?
You need to understand something. The fact that a single specific medical case did not go as you expected it to does not mean that science has explained nothing.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
Unless, ya'know, you're typing this message to me on a divinely powered computer untouched by the hand of modern science in a grass thatched hut lit by the dying embers of the nightly fire.
Instead I suspect your life is inextricably linked to the products of science in more ways that you can comfortably comprehend. But you're happy saying that it provides no answers because of a single coincidence that you feel you witnessed.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
absolutely youre right about science and Technology, but where did it come from and why can humans only use it?
Maybe coz thats how God intended it..
Why dont Polar bears have factories.. youre just giving more credit that God made man to be able to invent these things.....
Thank God we are able to do these things.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
I love science and technology and I hated religion less than 10 years ago. At the time a religious guy I worked with was going to report me for continously blasphemey. I threatened to kill him if he did and I meant it...... so I have thought like you do for most of my life, I know what youre thinking and how you feel.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
as to "only humans" being able to use science and technology... well.. animals can invent and use simple tools, so any absolute distinction kind of breaks down there.
And as to your "I once was just like you".. no, I doubt it. If you were you wouldn't have been convinced by a single coincidence and been so happy to ignore all the other contradictory information.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
If you were just like me you'd have seen that while you thought you had seen some people say magic words and invoke divine healing, there were an awful lot of other people who said the magic words but didn't get the divine healing. That would suggested that what you witnessed was a coincidence, not a miracle.
And no, I have not threatened to kill someone and meant it for being irritatingly religious.
You really have not thought like me most of your life.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
no Ive thought like you for most of my life in bot believeing in God, not in everything.. The miracle didnt change me, it was long before that you might change you thoughts in years to come. Youd never agree to that now, just like I didnt 10 years ago. but we did think tha same for many years about religion. I felt extremely bad for religious people. . you are sad, Ive seen the comments on your channel, you feel the need to argue this regularly, and thats really sad.. dont reply.. bye.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
You were quite specific. You said that you used to be just like me, and then detailed how you once threatened to murder someone.
No, you were never just like me.
You can run away if you like, I know your beliefs won't hold up to even casual scrutiny.
But I do find it interesting that you went from "science has no answers" to "science is so special that the very fact that it exists must be proof of the existence of god".
To repeat myself again, you are not and never were just like me.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
It's sad that while you proudly declare your miraculous observation of healing (never mind that reality is probably far different from what you described) that whole problem with the countless others who did just what you did yet experienced no miracle can only be ignored.
You dare not address it. If you do your miracle evaporates before your eyes and leaves you back where you started.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
If you need to believe in that, then fine. But don't come here expecting your vague personal anecdote to instantly convert everyone else when you'd never accept similar accounts from others unless they agreed with what you already needed to believe in.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
you are the true meaning of the word agnorant.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
Right. You show up and tell us that you witnessed something that you cannot explain, therefore god, and for an encore you call me ignorant.
You might want to double check the meaning of that word.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
Actually, he said you are "agnorant." That means he likes how you fill out your skin-tight blue jeans.
Desertphile 2 years ago
you cant even read, I called you agnorant..
which you are....
look at your replies on yuor channel. Theyre all from people that know that youre agnorant....
You might want to double check the meaning of that word.
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
the only problem is that being agnorant you will never admit to being wrong or being agnorant...
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
I'm willing to discuss any points of contention. So far the only specific point upon which we initially disagreed you have since come about 180 degrees regarding. That is, your initial statement that science has no answers.
Is there anything else you wish to discuss? Or has that one incident lead you to decide that all you have left to do is hurl insults?
"by their fruits shall ye know them"... where have I heard that before...
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
I would not say that calling you agnorant was hurling an insult. I would say it is a scientific statement of fact.
Science still has no answer for the reason that the universe or life exists. Science disagrees with religion but offers absolutely not one single viable alternative.
Are you the person in this video and you post on several chhanels?
Yutubetopteensingers 2 years ago
the "reason" the universe exists is mostly a category error. In a scientific context that's meaningless. What you want is philosophy. You're in luck, I have no interest in philosophy, you're free to contemplate your navel and wonder about the meaning of life all you want there.
But when you make egregiously stupid statements like "science offers not one single viable alternative" I take issue. Especially after you just said it was so marvelous that it must be proof of gods existence.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
Beginning of life? That's called abiogenesis, and it's a fairly fertile field of research with a fair amount of ground already covered. We may well never know exactly how it happened because we don't have enough left over evidence, it may be that there are multiple ways it could have happened.
Beginning of the universe? I believe some smart chaps over in Switzerland have this machine that you may have heard about that will be probing that event.
NomadSoul76 2 years ago
These are what are known as viable alternatives. It turns out that there IS a better approach than just saying "well gee, I don't know and therefore nobody can know, I guess this bronze age mythology here is just as likely to be accurate as anything else".
I'm curious.. did you try ever try this on a math teacher? That maybe the answer to 2+2 is four, and maybe it's five, and it's just a matter of conflicting opinions?
NomadSoul76 2 years ago