at 1:16:00 Revelation opens in the discussion. That Book fore tells the catastrophic violence, bloodlust and war crimes called world war one and two. In 1935 Europeans attacked Ethiopia, again, but the Fascist Italians opened the seven seals, and the king of Ethiopia was returned to His throne, after Mussolini lost offensive capacity over 5 years of combat.
THE CURE? Haile Sellassie I - born Lij Tafari Makonnen crowned HIM Haile Sellassie I - pure indica is provisioned by God on the first pages of Genesis; all herbs for humankind. Hemp for the planet - all healthy and productive.Third world hemp. Reinvigorate global economy with hemp based industry. McGrath deserves a better laugh with his Nun joke. Listen twice still funny. Gut ripping. Rasta is a diffuse Christian sect. Peace
Approaching 33 minutes the biosocial imperative is explained. Humans are naturally inclined to help each other. And find ways of codifying that: Religion. In many disguises.
@economist737 Church of England still hasn't acknowledged or apologized for their part in allowing for the invasion of Coptic Ethiopia in 1935 by the then British Ally, Fascist Italy. This crime perpetrated through the League of Nations and Suez Canal, facilitated the use of chemical weapons against civilians and the bare foot shaman clad Ethiopian Patriot Army. Not a word from the Archbishop, whose forerunners actually refused Edward VIII his crown because he was unsuitable being fascist......
@DisturbedZelda "When God fucks you in the butt, Fuck God right back in his cunt!" (line from "The Book of Mormon" a musical by Matt Stone and Trey Parker.)
@Tall0n3 if God exists... then He ought to be worshiped, if people dont worship him, such as atheists... then that would be an immoral act that can be done by an atheist. It all depends on objective moral standards, and i even hold that, if there is no god, there can be no objective moral standards. objective = true independent of human opinion (non arbitrary)
@MrBobbybab if God exists... then he ought to be worshiped, if people dont worship him such as atheists... then that would be an immoral act that can be done by an atheist.
Alister makes good points, but the way in which he tries to emphasize certain words and using that handspeak just is distracting. In his defense, many folks these days do this. It's as if they take a class on public speaking/persuasion whereby Christopher speaks from his heart and let's face it, has a natural flair.
Fuck man. I´ve been completely hooked on Hitchens debates lately. I can honestly say i miss the guy and his extreme simplicity in explaining the absurdity of religion, and the occasional hitchslap :)
Well, reading comments along the way on my Hitchens marathon, i can sense an ever growing atheism movement brewing. Seems like people are getting the idea... Guess watching these debates gives me some hope enlightenment in the future.
This is the first time I have heard Hitchens debate, and I am stunned by the gloriously eloquent nature of his arguments. I am saddened more, now, by his death than I was when I first heard the news.
McGrath is one of the better theist speakers i have come across and i am a die hard Hitchens fan. In fact i think Alister made some rather interesting points...but alas got Hitchslapped.
I agreed with points that both of them made and disagree with some things said but I don't think, in my humble opinion, either one of them had much luck in convincing the other side of their argument. Part of the biggest argument of the debate is based on belief systems. We could debate the historical evidence, but I'm not. If you were one way before then you were that way after... That's my opinion though...
McGrath had many good points in his opening statement that any world view can lead to extreme actions, but he never once said (and I'm not surprised) that religion allows others to lose interest in and become ignorant to science. The restraints that religion puts on the scientific community is one of most disgusting things about it. You can have your theistic world views, but don't get in the way of human advancement.
McGrath carries the point of the possibility of (a) religion not necessarily being fundamentally wicked, but alas the texts & figures of his own faith simply rule it out from being one of these. He made a very good comparison of any world-view being able to be hijacked - even into selfcontradiction, but again, his particular religion is not one of these, all the justification for evil is there ready & waiting in the text
Anyway the whole debate on impact is irrelevant to the truth of the claims.
McGrath certainly is good at using pronouns and runon sentences until it's impossible to follow his argument anymore. Hitchens also is good at telling bad jokes.
This is how atheists do their "fighting" in a civilised debate , Religion(s) use (and still do) to do their "fighting" with .... well ........ actual fighting.
"Lacks evidential basis?" Science... is new compared to religion. "Stopped being atheist" If you can live without god, then there's no reason to believe in one. "Pathological/normal religious belief"... Making up answers in pursuit to end questioning... "100,000 cases of being nice in religion" Seriously? You can be nice without religion. "Is it god doing this?" But in the name god anything is possible... with a weapon. No religion would propel science. In the place of every church... anything.
How did this dialog even pursue? Alister consistently moves to apologize for his views. Hitchen's simply cites history without a religious belief perspective.Without a doubt our specie's ego-centric view willl not be ridden of... but we can move forward without theism.
@SuperMemzzz I feel your pain more than you could ever know...Christopher Hitchens you are gone but your words and message will live on forever in hopes that one day we will see it come true
wow. Allister said nothing that helped to convince me of his faith. he basically just told people that they need to read the Bible in a certain way so as to gain the feeling for it that he does.
A morality is a set rules that, when followed by all of the members of a community, ensures that they peaceably coexist. How then can one who has no peers be the ultimate authority on morality?
As much as I like watching these debates, I don't really understand why they happen. There's no evidence to begin with. What the hell is there to argue about?
@gr4ndhustle I'd say the monumental discoveries science is responsible for over the last 500 years have done much more to answer much more about the world, about where and what we come from, and provide much more for the world, than any religion I can name.
@Skindoggiedog one reason to argue: its bieng forced upon people. we have to "respect" them in political and cultural situations. evidence has nothing to do with faith, but hitchens had a smart way of showing the stupidity of religion.
@KatanaRapierCombo2 That is true, but...so what? It is just as possible that unicorns live on the planet Zod and command us to stick carrots up our arse every saturday. Should i do that? No. Basing your actions on the possibility of something is silly.
@TheEmperorGulcasa fair enough, i guess, but you forgot about Galileo, remember what he went through? and after his passing, guess what people think now?
@proximaism What other finctional characters from fairytales do you believe in that you cannot prove exist? Even if you do beleive in magic man and walk away it only shows your own itelligence.
@Skindoggiedog The point is to educate the audience and viewers into each viewpoint of discussion. When it comes to having any conversation in any situation, ever, these are the only ones worth having. It's important to reach as many people as possible about these topics because you never know if the next Thomas Paine or John Locke might see it, get inspired, and then change the world.
I watched this tonight out of appreciation for the life of Christopher Hitchens.
This debate seemed to me MUCH better than the one between Harris and Craig. It was actually a pleasure to listen to Dr. McGrath representing his views. I feel he dodged some crucial points, but he did as well as anyone could expect against a fiercely uncompromising, honest, and gifted intellectual juggernaut like Hitchens.
I will miss Chris. He has been one of my heroes -- a marvelous spokesman for secularism.
Watch my heart-felt and sincere tribute to the man, the writer, the father and piano virtuoso: "Christopher Hitchens and His Last Thoughts." Incidentally, I suspect that the music was composed and performed by him, oh yeah!!!
you don't need heaven and god to live forever. through the influence Christopher Hitchens had on an entire generation he will live on. thanks for helping break the spell, job well done
The simple - at least for me - reason for dismissing religion, faith and the supernatural, is that there is no way we could possibly KNOW them while alive (whether they are true or not is irrelevant), other than in personal revelations and dreams. Not enough, I'd say, to spend my life with those as my main concerns, goals or ideals. They may enter my dreams, but so do unicorns and elves ;-)
Hitchens' view that people wouldn't contemplate horrible things like mutilation, stoning, rape, etc without religion is paradoxical, since he supports the State terror of the United States, invasion, destruction, and torture.
A good idea, but he does explain particularly in other debates that there are exceptions, that some people still enjoy being immoral. I think the idea of destroying our enemies more reflects the destruction of their immoral beliefs, I would suggest it is a realist's view.
Atheism IS water compared to christianity. The problem is, it is water compared to any other religion or belief that reaches into the unknown of what happens after death. Fiction is usually more entertaining and vivid than non-fiction, that's the main function of fiction, Dr. McGrath. But, atheism is also unbelievably liberating and eye-opening. It puts you back in control of your life, and breaks the chains of ignorant, wishfully-thinking, fiction writers from the bronze age.
If you asked a believer to list the reasons why they wouldn't want to live in North Korea, an atheist could use the same reasons, if it were true, as to why they wouldn't want to go to heaven. No freedom of thought, no right to protest without fear of execution, compulsory praise and worship of someone who would have no problem in destroying you if he so chose to. The list goes on.
interesting how mcgrath doesn't address hitchen's points, but rather expresses his personal feelings which are just that, his feelings, not sound logical arguements.
I think the reason some people have a desire to do wrong things is because they haven't done them yet- the prodigal was ready to come back by the time he woke up next to a pig.
Despite being utterly unconvinced by McGrath, and being able to replace christianity with any other religion in his arguments... I was surprisingly able to listen to all of his parts of the debate without my brain hurting as with most other theist debaters ex Craig, D'Souza, Wolpe, etc.
@skurys Hitchens wasn't attacking christianity per se, but religion as a whole. May explain Alister's percieved focus on religious aspects of faith as a whole, rather than christianity
It's interesting that you would be able to replace Christianity with any other religion, given that McGrath provided evidence in reference to Christ and the Bible. That doesn't leave much room for other religions.
@AidanMorrell Sorry I missed the evidence part. Morals prove nothing, as Christians can do bad things like the rest of humanity. And quoting the bible is as much evidence for Christianity as the Qur'an is for Islam. Even scientists can give all the logical arguments in the world but without physical proof it's just conjecture. Besides, that's not why people believe this stuff, its cuz they grew up in it. Thats why ppl still think going without a hat in winter will give you a cold.
@skurys I don't think his point is to convince you of the truth of Christianity. His point is that it is a viable alternative if you're predisposed to believing in the first place.
@skurys I really think Hitchens takes it easy on D'Souza. I'll be listening to the two of them debate, and D'Souza says the most ridiculous things, and Hitchens rarely ever attacks him on them. I think he feels bad for D'Souza.
@Zwemer100 i see. you didn't even watch it. or perhaps you were drunk when watching it and drunk when you posted. you got your facts backwards, sir. you may have an opinion, but you may not create your own facts. Hitchens offered up evidence the atrocity of the xtian faith and as to how its doctrines have fundamental flaws that negate them as having been given to us from something that is neither loving or divine.
I note that the contrary, equal and opposite perspective is non-accepting with the the Zealot Zitegeist. The disparagement before one embarks upon stimulative , rational thought typically is discarded, philosophically considered.
instead the point of view in reference to god is divided by it self (religions). seems like god doesn't mind either, if your god is out there he's enjoying all this contraversy, seems like his believers are being out numbered by the new era of humans. this is great i wish i could be around 1000 yrs from now when this religious mess is just behind us all. congratulations atheist theres more people that like this video than people who dislike it. were winning. our vision is fullfilling.
gods & and religion should not be complicated. if god existed & the bible was authenticby him. it would make perfect sence everytime u opened it and read it & we would all believe in on god and own one bible.
Can one of you atheists watching this putting your pat on the back comments here please demonstrate to me how any of you can live out moral relativism? By very definition you must be a moral relativist. You must believe society dictates morals then because there is no higher power. My question is this: - is cold blooded murder wrong? (and any answer that points to the evolutionary model of the negative aspects of death to a society is not good enough) is murder wrong, why?r ther moral absolutes?
@ngimangi Nice work, the old 'you need religion for morals bullshit'. You're beliefs are nonsense and as such i laugh at the fact you are wasting your one and only time in the universe with such a delusion.
@ngimangi religion is the manual for god. You know how to behave because it's obvious. If you need god for morals then clearly you're a maniac. god believers are insane and as such should seek medical help as soon as possible. Again i say, imagine wasting your one and only shot in this universe with made up mumbo jumbo and imagine thinking people should respect you for it. You're a moron and i hold you in utter contempt.
@IThinkImAloneNow wow great way to be totally abusive. why not explain some of the things you've just said. Im interested to know how you clarify subjective statements such as "clearly your a maniac" etc... waiting patiently for another empiricist answer...
@IThinkImAloneNow elaborate and intelligently explain please. how can u tell me with your worldview that there are moral absolutes. do u think morality can be absolute|? if so why? peace
@ngimangi sarcasm? oh i see 'peace', i'm holding my sides with laughter, you should write for Private Eye. I feel your definition of sarcasm may be a little off.
@proximaism Mcrath you pity the atheists? You mean your need to feel superior despite the fact Hitchens can destroy your pathetic beliefs has lead you to post a comment showing that you aren't capable of hearing and as such proves `Hitchens more than you can know.
@proximaism May I ask you how McGrath demonstrated Atheists are narrow-minded? Because we choose logic, reason, evidence and science? Because we are morally good on our own? Yes, on our own. This means WITHOUT an invisible sky daddy. Because we live our lives fully with love and compassion? Please enlighten me HOW Athiests are narrow-minded? Is it because our beliefs don't coincide with yours?
@proximaism We are narrow minded about Talking Snakes, Invisible Men In The Sky, Jewish Zombies and Unicorns. Everything, in other words, which is made up BS.
thats the problem you take religion and other beliefs as a joke we faithfull take it seriously, you are so disrespectful and you think that reason and evidence answers all, as alister mcgrath said, faith isn't against reason it simply goes beyond reason getting as pass the barriers that reason puts in our way to discovering the bigger picture of things.
@proximaism It goes "beyond reason" and MAKES STUFF UP. As for being "disrespectful", respect is earned not given. Your beliefs have not earned my respect.
@proximaism Yeah. After all, atheists are so narrow-minded, they can't see the invisible sky-daddy, who zapped Mary with a zygote-beam, that turned into Sky-Daddy Clone, who, being almighty, allowed himself to be nailed to a cross, came back from the beyond, and teleported into the sky some years later. And why did he do it? Oh, because all of man is doomed, because a gal named Eve decided to chomp on a piece of fruit. Yeah, so narrow-minded.
@proximaism Worship is defined as :The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. Delusional is defined as a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. Religious beliefs are delusional , science is not resistant to fact and it is not science worshiping a deity. One mistake after another from the deluded religious in a desperate attempt to justify their worship of an myth.
people like to think that science like astronomy and biology disprove God, but i think its possible to believe in god and believe in Hawking and/or Darwin, but those things did not make me an atheist. What made me an atheist is religious history, it disproves itself, the three judeo/christian/ islamic faiths disprove their elligibility by simply existing. Science came later for me.
If McGrath is as he says "wedded to evidence based thinking" why is he arguing from a standpoint "Christianity" for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Its obvious he isn,t wedded to evidence based thinking but faith in the wild stories of some Palestinian nutjobs of 1600 yrs ago !
I can agree with nearly everything Hitchens says as a fellow Atheist, except for his pro-Iraq war ideas and his positions on circumcision.
TheTerrorUforgot 4 days ago
"I'm not looking for concensus baby". - :)
hawkinscraig05 5 days ago
Was this filmed on a boat... McGrath swaying from side to side... is making me sea sick.
hawkinscraig05 5 days ago
Having two doctorates doesn't mean that you have a license to babble. Get to it already!
ebrak47 5 days ago in playlist Liked videos
wow that guy really believes in human nature
rezomegrelidze 1 week ago
at 1:16:00 Revelation opens in the discussion. That Book fore tells the catastrophic violence, bloodlust and war crimes called world war one and two. In 1935 Europeans attacked Ethiopia, again, but the Fascist Italians opened the seven seals, and the king of Ethiopia was returned to His throne, after Mussolini lost offensive capacity over 5 years of combat.
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
THE CURE? Haile Sellassie I - born Lij Tafari Makonnen crowned HIM Haile Sellassie I - pure indica is provisioned by God on the first pages of Genesis; all herbs for humankind. Hemp for the planet - all healthy and productive.Third world hemp. Reinvigorate global economy with hemp based industry. McGrath deserves a better laugh with his Nun joke. Listen twice still funny. Gut ripping. Rasta is a diffuse Christian sect. Peace
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
Approaching 37:00 strict justification for legalization for Rastafarians and all other humankind.
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
Approaching 33 minutes the biosocial imperative is explained. Humans are naturally inclined to help each other. And find ways of codifying that: Religion. In many disguises.
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
Praise Jah Ras Tafari Haile Sellassie I
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
I'm getting dizzy watching McGrath
Hirfel 2 weeks ago
miss you, mr hitchens... :(
Calliclesiastes 2 weeks ago 2
The Church of England guy is just not up to it. Very bland platitudes from him and it like a tune up fight for Hitch.
economist737 2 weeks ago
@economist737 Church of England still hasn't acknowledged or apologized for their part in allowing for the invasion of Coptic Ethiopia in 1935 by the then British Ally, Fascist Italy. This crime perpetrated through the League of Nations and Suez Canal, facilitated the use of chemical weapons against civilians and the bare foot shaman clad Ethiopian Patriot Army. Not a word from the Archbishop, whose forerunners actually refused Edward VIII his crown because he was unsuitable being fascist......
SmileyGarrish 2 weeks ago
STAND STILL!!
melonjames100 2 weeks ago
this atheists degrade the value of human life.
proximaism 3 weeks ago
i love Christianity it gave me a more positive view on life.end of conversation.
proximaism 3 weeks ago
@proximaism That's interesting. Atheism did the same for me. Guess that's no evidence one way or the other, and isn't the end of conversation.
aaronacrabtree 2 weeks ago
@proximaism Guess some people just don't care about the truth...
TheReexa 1 week ago
FUCK god!!!!!!!!!!!
DisturbedZelda 3 weeks ago 2
@DisturbedZelda "When God fucks you in the butt, Fuck God right back in his cunt!" (line from "The Book of Mormon" a musical by Matt Stone and Trey Parker.)
CocktailGaming 2 weeks ago
@CocktailGaming i heard that shit is hilarious, is it?
DisturbedZelda 2 weeks ago
@DisturbedZelda It is a master piece. It's also extremely funny.
CocktailGaming 2 weeks ago
An immoral action done by the Atheist that cannot be done by a theist: Disbelief in God.
TheDutchPhilosopher 3 weeks ago 2
@TheDutchPhilosopher since when is disbelief in god immoral?
Tall0n3 3 weeks ago
@Tall0n3 who says I've got to hold to what Hitchens thinks is moral... obviously then there is no immoral thing.
TheDutchPhilosopher 3 weeks ago
@TheDutchPhilosopher If you put forward the claim that disbelief in god is immoral, explain it. I don't see any immoralitiy in it.
Tall0n3 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Tall0n3 if God exists... then He ought to be worshiped, if people dont worship him, such as atheists... then that would be an immoral act that can be done by an atheist. It all depends on objective moral standards, and i even hold that, if there is no god, there can be no objective moral standards. objective = true independent of human opinion (non arbitrary)
TheDutchPhilosopher 3 weeks ago
@TheDutchPhilosopher thats an incredibly immoral thing to say
dawtchins 3 weeks ago
Ànswer to the challenge: Love God with all your heart soul mind and strength. is a moral but cannot be done by an atheist
TheDutchPhilosopher 3 weeks ago 2
@TheDutchPhilosopher which god ? theres 3000
dawtchins 3 weeks ago
@TheDutchPhilosopher Are you kidding me? How can disliking a fictional character possibly be an immoral act? Thats ridiculous.
MrBobbybab 3 weeks ago
@MrBobbybab if God exists... then he ought to be worshiped, if people dont worship him such as atheists... then that would be an immoral act that can be done by an atheist.
TheDutchPhilosopher 3 weeks ago
Hitchens for the win.
fmby 3 weeks ago
i love mcgrath's accent!
proximaism 3 weeks ago
"If I can't be erect, at least I can be upright". :)
hollyzone 1 month ago 10
Alister makes good points, but the way in which he tries to emphasize certain words and using that handspeak just is distracting. In his defense, many folks these days do this. It's as if they take a class on public speaking/persuasion whereby Christopher speaks from his heart and let's face it, has a natural flair.
hollyzone 1 month ago
Fuck man. I´ve been completely hooked on Hitchens debates lately. I can honestly say i miss the guy and his extreme simplicity in explaining the absurdity of religion, and the occasional hitchslap :)
Well, reading comments along the way on my Hitchens marathon, i can sense an ever growing atheism movement brewing. Seems like people are getting the idea... Guess watching these debates gives me some hope enlightenment in the future.
ragnarlava 1 month ago 5
only me who thinks alister is wasteing our time being polite, when he should rather spend his time getting to his points?
Mrmcroller 1 month ago
@Mrmcroller
yeah i'm not sure what it is, his droning puts me to sleep.
hollyzone 1 month ago
im not sure i heard anything intelligible from alister mcgrath
blindedbro 1 month ago
This is the first time I have heard Hitchens debate, and I am stunned by the gloriously eloquent nature of his arguments. I am saddened more, now, by his death than I was when I first heard the news.
TheStringyness 1 month ago 3
McGrath is one of the better theist speakers i have come across and i am a die hard Hitchens fan. In fact i think Alister made some rather interesting points...but alas got Hitchslapped.
azman5998 1 month ago
I agreed with points that both of them made and disagree with some things said but I don't think, in my humble opinion, either one of them had much luck in convincing the other side of their argument. Part of the biggest argument of the debate is based on belief systems. We could debate the historical evidence, but I'm not. If you were one way before then you were that way after... That's my opinion though...
ultimus1998 1 month ago
Did they ever wind up doing a follow-up debate to this?
nynevergoingback 1 month ago
'Our faith-based forces are about as useful as the Pope's balls'
Priceless.
HayzeusUK 1 month ago
Allister, you are reading from a script that has been outdated.
TheDmo22222 1 month ago
1:14:26 Here Hitchens delivers a series of death blows from which McGrath cannot recover
huwrj 1 month ago
McGrath had many good points in his opening statement that any world view can lead to extreme actions, but he never once said (and I'm not surprised) that religion allows others to lose interest in and become ignorant to science. The restraints that religion puts on the scientific community is one of most disgusting things about it. You can have your theistic world views, but don't get in the way of human advancement.
PhRiZoN 1 month ago
Thanks for many hours of your wisdom Hitch.
volunteer7able1 1 month ago 2
Whoa McGrath moves his hands way too much.
KaelaMackenzie 1 month ago
McGrath carries the point of the possibility of (a) religion not necessarily being fundamentally wicked, but alas the texts & figures of his own faith simply rule it out from being one of these. He made a very good comparison of any world-view being able to be hijacked - even into selfcontradiction, but again, his particular religion is not one of these, all the justification for evil is there ready & waiting in the text
Anyway the whole debate on impact is irrelevant to the truth of the claims.
AnHumanOnTheInternet 1 month ago
McGrath certainly is good at using pronouns and runon sentences until it's impossible to follow his argument anymore. Hitchens also is good at telling bad jokes.
Alchemagician 1 month ago
Dare I say:
This is how atheists do their "fighting" in a civilised debate , Religion(s) use (and still do) to do their "fighting" with .... well ........ actual fighting.
LogicalStatements1 1 month ago 3
"Lacks evidential basis?" Science... is new compared to religion. "Stopped being atheist" If you can live without god, then there's no reason to believe in one. "Pathological/normal religious belief"... Making up answers in pursuit to end questioning... "100,000 cases of being nice in religion" Seriously? You can be nice without religion. "Is it god doing this?" But in the name god anything is possible... with a weapon. No religion would propel science. In the place of every church... anything.
Austyn0827 1 month ago
How did this dialog even pursue? Alister consistently moves to apologize for his views. Hitchen's simply cites history without a religious belief perspective.Without a doubt our specie's ego-centric view willl not be ridden of... but we can move forward without theism.
Happy Holidays!
Hexonip 2 months ago
I am deeply saddened whenever I think that I couldn't see this person live ...:(
SuperMemzzz 2 months ago 34
@SuperMemzzz
He is a hoot. I was lucky enough to have been part of an old political chat room with him.
I still can't believe he's gone, but not in spirit.
hollyzone 1 month ago
@SuperMemzzz I feel your pain more than you could ever know...Christopher Hitchens you are gone but your words and message will live on forever in hopes that one day we will see it come true
RIPDrHitchens 2 weeks ago
@SuperMemzzz you can. McGrath lives in the UK. ( :P )
Hanensens 1 week ago
@Hanensens lol...
SuperMemzzz 6 days ago
damn, poor guy got owned.
mistakim31 2 months ago
alister makes a good case that religion is not inherently evil. not some much a good case that religion is good
JustJoeKane 2 months ago
wow. Allister said nothing that helped to convince me of his faith. he basically just told people that they need to read the Bible in a certain way so as to gain the feeling for it that he does.
Hitchens was flawless.
vicmackey2008 2 months ago 3
Unless one can know what they're going to think before the thought crosses their mind, then omniscience is impossible.
VerumAdNauseam 2 months ago
A morality is a set rules that, when followed by all of the members of a community, ensures that they peaceably coexist. How then can one who has no peers be the ultimate authority on morality?
VerumAdNauseam 2 months ago
God has told me to kill you all!
VerumAdNauseam 2 months ago
1:13:59 Hitchpalm.
daemonowner 2 months ago
what is it with posh english accents and yanks hahah,get the fuck over it
chinahands100 2 months ago
he looks so healthy..dam cancer
chinahands100 2 months ago
Oh I just heard sad message about Hitch RIP
gogolplex74 2 months ago
As much as I like watching these debates, I don't really understand why they happen. There's no evidence to begin with. What the hell is there to argue about?
Person A: X is real.
Person B: Can you demonstrate that?
Person A: No.
End of conversation.
Skindoggiedog 2 months ago 19
@Skindoggiedog How can you deny scientific evidence?
TREYJEEZY 2 months ago
@TREYJEEZY the problem here is not denying evidence, but not having the capacity to understand the difference between evidence and baloney sandwich.
gr4ndhustle 2 months ago 4
@gr4ndhustle I'd say the monumental discoveries science is responsible for over the last 500 years have done much more to answer much more about the world, about where and what we come from, and provide much more for the world, than any religion I can name.
TREYJEEZY 2 months ago
@TREYJEEZY i couldn't agree more.
gr4ndhustle 2 months ago
@TREYJEEZY by looking at the facts..
Freefunware 2 months ago
@Skindoggiedog Except, that wasn't the topic debated at all.
If you listen carefully, "Poison or cure, religious belief in the modern world."
Llynok 2 months ago
@Skindoggiedog one reason to argue: its bieng forced upon people. we have to "respect" them in political and cultural situations. evidence has nothing to do with faith, but hitchens had a smart way of showing the stupidity of religion.
Nekronaut321 2 months ago
@Skindoggiedog this debate is strictly to look at if religion is good for our society or not.
Mrmcroller 4 weeks ago
@Skindoggiedog someone had to be there to make them look silly, may as well have been hitch
penrun 4 weeks ago 3
@Skindoggiedog end of conversation perhaps, but not necessarily end of the possibility
KatanaRapierCombo2 3 weeks ago
@KatanaRapierCombo2 That is true, but...so what? It is just as possible that unicorns live on the planet Zod and command us to stick carrots up our arse every saturday. Should i do that? No. Basing your actions on the possibility of something is silly.
TheEmperorGulcasa 3 weeks ago
@TheEmperorGulcasa fair enough, i guess, but you forgot about Galileo, remember what he went through? and after his passing, guess what people think now?
KatanaRapierCombo2 3 weeks ago
@Skindoggiedog the answer is no,but i believe it, then end of conversation.
proximaism 3 weeks ago
@proximaism What other finctional characters from fairytales do you believe in that you cannot prove exist? Even if you do beleive in magic man and walk away it only shows your own itelligence.
ruumpleteaser 3 weeks ago
@Skindoggiedog The point is to educate the audience and viewers into each viewpoint of discussion. When it comes to having any conversation in any situation, ever, these are the only ones worth having. It's important to reach as many people as possible about these topics because you never know if the next Thomas Paine or John Locke might see it, get inspired, and then change the world.
SkyFortStudios 3 weeks ago
Fuck Hitchens McGrath is awesome
gogolplex74 2 months ago
I watched this tonight out of appreciation for the life of Christopher Hitchens.
This debate seemed to me MUCH better than the one between Harris and Craig. It was actually a pleasure to listen to Dr. McGrath representing his views. I feel he dodged some crucial points, but he did as well as anyone could expect against a fiercely uncompromising, honest, and gifted intellectual juggernaut like Hitchens.
I will miss Chris. He has been one of my heroes -- a marvelous spokesman for secularism.
Astrobrant2 2 months ago 2
Watch my heart-felt and sincere tribute to the man, the writer, the father and piano virtuoso: "Christopher Hitchens and His Last Thoughts." Incidentally, I suspect that the music was composed and performed by him, oh yeah!!!
TheWorldFarOff 2 months ago
@TheWorldFarOff It didn't take YouTube long to remove your video. Tell us why.
Astrobrant2 2 months ago
you don't need heaven and god to live forever. through the influence Christopher Hitchens had on an entire generation he will live on. thanks for helping break the spell, job well done
ttristann 2 months ago 2
The simple - at least for me - reason for dismissing religion, faith and the supernatural, is that there is no way we could possibly KNOW them while alive (whether they are true or not is irrelevant), other than in personal revelations and dreams. Not enough, I'd say, to spend my life with those as my main concerns, goals or ideals. They may enter my dreams, but so do unicorns and elves ;-)
bersa888 2 months ago
Why does McGrath move around and sliver around like that? WTF is wrong with that guy.
LTDGuitars420 2 months ago
Hitchens is quite dangerous, that we should destroy all our enemies. If that isn't a formula for planetary destruction I don't know what is.
indoctus41 2 months ago
Hitchens' view that people wouldn't contemplate horrible things like mutilation, stoning, rape, etc without religion is paradoxical, since he supports the State terror of the United States, invasion, destruction, and torture.
indoctus41 2 months ago
@indoctus41
A good idea, but he does explain particularly in other debates that there are exceptions, that some people still enjoy being immoral. I think the idea of destroying our enemies more reflects the destruction of their immoral beliefs, I would suggest it is a realist's view.
zoidberg1218 2 months ago
It funny, Dr. McGrath, the most liberating moment in my life was when I realized the Bible and other scriptures is complete bullshit. lmao
631Miami 2 months ago
Atheism IS water compared to christianity. The problem is, it is water compared to any other religion or belief that reaches into the unknown of what happens after death. Fiction is usually more entertaining and vivid than non-fiction, that's the main function of fiction, Dr. McGrath. But, atheism is also unbelievably liberating and eye-opening. It puts you back in control of your life, and breaks the chains of ignorant, wishfully-thinking, fiction writers from the bronze age.
631Miami 2 months ago
mcgrath is so annoying. fuck.
hugga4u 2 months ago
The camera man has a tough job in following McGrath around, doesn't he? lol
shonpistoll 2 months ago
hitch sure does have a peculiar taste in socks
ProfessorDislike 2 months ago
despite talking for a tremendous amount of time, Mcgrath manages to do so without actually seemingly saying anything...
peteradamson 3 months ago
I pressed at random point and hit upon a "gruesome elderly virgins" LOL
aulus6 3 months ago
If you asked a believer to list the reasons why they wouldn't want to live in North Korea, an atheist could use the same reasons, if it were true, as to why they wouldn't want to go to heaven. No freedom of thought, no right to protest without fear of execution, compulsory praise and worship of someone who would have no problem in destroying you if he so chose to. The list goes on.
The26Dude 3 months ago
interesting how mcgrath doesn't address hitchen's points, but rather expresses his personal feelings which are just that, his feelings, not sound logical arguements.
rhouk 3 months ago
Kill religion!!!!! sry. that was for a respond on a dawkins video.
allermann1 3 months ago
Kill religion!!!!!
allermann1 3 months ago
I think the reason some people have a desire to do wrong things is because they haven't done them yet- the prodigal was ready to come back by the time he woke up next to a pig.
M3GreatRiffs 3 months ago
We're not wishing for death, but let's face it- everyone dies.
M3GreatRiffs 3 months ago
Once you get past Alister's accent, he really brings nothing to the table.
Kinda embarassing how badly he gets Hitchslapped.
dreihaddar 3 months ago 33
@dreihaddar I'm surprised that debaters of "faith" continued to enter these debates. It's a bit embarrassing to watch and listen to at times.
ctriamimgons 2 months ago
lol
Drgamedood 3 months ago
Despite being utterly unconvinced by McGrath, and being able to replace christianity with any other religion in his arguments... I was surprisingly able to listen to all of his parts of the debate without my brain hurting as with most other theist debaters ex Craig, D'Souza, Wolpe, etc.
skurys 3 months ago 28
@skurys sad Hitchens never floored Craig like he does in this discussion to McGrath...
doyoublush 2 months ago
@skurys Hitchens wasn't attacking christianity per se, but religion as a whole. May explain Alister's percieved focus on religious aspects of faith as a whole, rather than christianity
scottclaudet 2 months ago
@skurys
It's interesting that you would be able to replace Christianity with any other religion, given that McGrath provided evidence in reference to Christ and the Bible. That doesn't leave much room for other religions.
AidanMorrell 2 months ago
@AidanMorrell "McGrath provided evidence"
Yeah. I liked the part where he had jesus come out from backstage with god doing the voice-over.
Skindoggiedog 2 months ago 2
@AidanMorrell Sorry I missed the evidence part. Morals prove nothing, as Christians can do bad things like the rest of humanity. And quoting the bible is as much evidence for Christianity as the Qur'an is for Islam. Even scientists can give all the logical arguments in the world but without physical proof it's just conjecture. Besides, that's not why people believe this stuff, its cuz they grew up in it. Thats why ppl still think going without a hat in winter will give you a cold.
skurys 2 months ago 2
@skurys all I heard from you was "MOOOOOOOOOO"
TheUSBcable 2 months ago
@skurys he is definitely better but still not answering a lot of the questions!
SuperMemzzz 2 months ago
@skurys I don't think his point is to convince you of the truth of Christianity. His point is that it is a viable alternative if you're predisposed to believing in the first place.
bahramf 2 months ago
@skurys I really think Hitchens takes it easy on D'Souza. I'll be listening to the two of them debate, and D'Souza says the most ridiculous things, and Hitchens rarely ever attacks him on them. I think he feels bad for D'Souza.
Kuhnfuze 1 month ago
@Kuhnfuze if they took the time to attack all the craziness they said, the wouldnt have time for their own points! :)
skurys 1 month ago
@skurys man i cant stand dsouza
blindedbro 1 month ago
I like this kind of debate: two intelligent people discussing an important matter in a polite, respectful, yet still enticing way.
MathaelTheDestroyer 3 months ago
Alister McGrath has outclassed Christofer Hitchen's, in scholarship, class and standard of debate.
God bless Alister McGrath.
Zwemer100 3 months ago
@Zwemer100 i see. you didn't even watch it. or perhaps you were drunk when watching it and drunk when you posted. you got your facts backwards, sir. you may have an opinion, but you may not create your own facts. Hitchens offered up evidence the atrocity of the xtian faith and as to how its doctrines have fundamental flaws that negate them as having been given to us from something that is neither loving or divine.
vicmackey2008 2 months ago
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We don't know, we can't pretend to know, but we can look at what people do believe and find it to be disprovable.
GiveCourage 3 months ago
I note that the contrary, equal and opposite perspective is non-accepting with the the Zealot Zitegeist. The disparagement before one embarks upon stimulative , rational thought typically is discarded, philosophically considered.
uniquerarity 4 months ago
Hitchens destroys Him. (pun intended) ;)
okeedokey 4 months ago
Have to say I really enjoyed this debate!
lukehase 4 months ago 2
Love Alister McGrath! Amazing guy :)
lukehase 4 months ago 3
@lukehase
:)
maazzzeeee2 4 months ago
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@lukehase Not really. He uses the idea that faith is good, and you are allowed to use 1 book to prove fact. Not impressed.
EricThe82 3 months ago
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@lukehase I'm definitely in the Hitchens corner on the topic but McGrath really is a wonderful speaker.
neviusprime 3 months ago
McGrath is useless...jibberish. The whole concept being debated is absurd.
adamhilder123 4 months ago
instead the point of view in reference to god is divided by it self (religions). seems like god doesn't mind either, if your god is out there he's enjoying all this contraversy, seems like his believers are being out numbered by the new era of humans. this is great i wish i could be around 1000 yrs from now when this religious mess is just behind us all. congratulations atheist theres more people that like this video than people who dislike it. were winning. our vision is fullfilling.
Elgin648 4 months ago
gods & and religion should not be complicated. if god existed & the bible was authenticby him. it would make perfect sence everytime u opened it and read it & we would all believe in on god and own one bible.
Elgin648 4 months ago
Available -only- in fine stores everywhere.
fiesta181 4 months ago
Alister McGrath and Christopher Hitchens are both very inspirational!
KatanaRapierCombo2 5 months ago 4
Can one of you atheists watching this putting your pat on the back comments here please demonstrate to me how any of you can live out moral relativism? By very definition you must be a moral relativist. You must believe society dictates morals then because there is no higher power. My question is this: - is cold blooded murder wrong? (and any answer that points to the evolutionary model of the negative aspects of death to a society is not good enough) is murder wrong, why?r ther moral absolutes?
ngimangi 5 months ago
@ngimangi Nice work, the old 'you need religion for morals bullshit'. You're beliefs are nonsense and as such i laugh at the fact you are wasting your one and only time in the universe with such a delusion.
IThinkImAloneNow 4 months ago
@IThinkImAloneNow please demonstrate why and i didnt say u need religion for morals. U need GOD for morals...
ngimangi 4 months ago 2
@ngimangi And no sorry you dont need god for morals. gods morals is horrible..we disagree with god in many ways.
KeySour 4 months ago
@KeySour Do you think it is ABSOLUTELY wrong to Murder (cold blooded) if so why?
ngimangi 4 months ago
@ngimangi religion is the manual for god. You know how to behave because it's obvious. If you need god for morals then clearly you're a maniac. god believers are insane and as such should seek medical help as soon as possible. Again i say, imagine wasting your one and only shot in this universe with made up mumbo jumbo and imagine thinking people should respect you for it. You're a moron and i hold you in utter contempt.
IThinkImAloneNow 4 months ago
@IThinkImAloneNow wow great way to be totally abusive. why not explain some of the things you've just said. Im interested to know how you clarify subjective statements such as "clearly your a maniac" etc... waiting patiently for another empiricist answer...
ngimangi 4 months ago
@IThinkImAloneNow elaborate and intelligently explain please. how can u tell me with your worldview that there are moral absolutes. do u think morality can be absolute|? if so why? peace
ngimangi 4 months ago
@ngimangi i can't converse with someone who says 'peace' at the end of a sentence.
IThinkImAloneNow 4 months ago
Respond to this video... and i cant converse with persons who dont know what sarcasm is. look it up in the dictionary. a new word for you...
ngimangi 4 months ago
@ngimangi sarcasm? oh i see 'peace', i'm holding my sides with laughter, you should write for Private Eye. I feel your definition of sarcasm may be a little off.
IThinkImAloneNow 4 months ago
Mcgrath just showed how narrow-minded atheists are, i pitty this atheists.
proximaism 5 months ago
@proximaism Mcrath you pity the atheists? You mean your need to feel superior despite the fact Hitchens can destroy your pathetic beliefs has lead you to post a comment showing that you aren't capable of hearing and as such proves `Hitchens more than you can know.
IThinkImAloneNow 4 months ago
@proximaism May I ask you how McGrath demonstrated Atheists are narrow-minded? Because we choose logic, reason, evidence and science? Because we are morally good on our own? Yes, on our own. This means WITHOUT an invisible sky daddy. Because we live our lives fully with love and compassion? Please enlighten me HOW Athiests are narrow-minded? Is it because our beliefs don't coincide with yours?
shelleybelley682 4 months ago
@shelleybelley682 tell youtube your secret sins :)
ngimangi 4 months ago
@proximaism Narrow minded? are you insane? Your belief is god is real and i dont care what anyone else says. that is narrow minded
KeySour 4 months ago
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@proximaism We are narrow minded about Talking Snakes, Invisible Men In The Sky, Jewish Zombies and Unicorns. Everything, in other words, which is made up BS.
lewisner 4 months ago 8
@lewisner
thats the problem you take religion and other beliefs as a joke we faithfull take it seriously, you are so disrespectful and you think that reason and evidence answers all, as alister mcgrath said, faith isn't against reason it simply goes beyond reason getting as pass the barriers that reason puts in our way to discovering the bigger picture of things.
proximaism 4 months ago
@proximaism It goes "beyond reason" and MAKES STUFF UP. As for being "disrespectful", respect is earned not given. Your beliefs have not earned my respect.
lewisner 4 months ago
@proximaism Yeah. After all, atheists are so narrow-minded, they can't see the invisible sky-daddy, who zapped Mary with a zygote-beam, that turned into Sky-Daddy Clone, who, being almighty, allowed himself to be nailed to a cross, came back from the beyond, and teleported into the sky some years later. And why did he do it? Oh, because all of man is doomed, because a gal named Eve decided to chomp on a piece of fruit. Yeah, so narrow-minded.
HKOverlord117 4 months ago 2
@HKOverlord117
you atheists are delusional,you worship scientific theories.
proximaism 4 months ago
@proximaism Irony seems to be the word here.
HKOverlord117 4 months ago
@proximaism Worship is defined as :The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. Delusional is defined as a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. Religious beliefs are delusional , science is not resistant to fact and it is not science worshiping a deity. One mistake after another from the deluded religious in a desperate attempt to justify their worship of an myth.
faircompetition1 4 months ago
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@proximaism /Facepalm of the night.
fluffcore21 3 months ago
people like to think that science like astronomy and biology disprove God, but i think its possible to believe in god and believe in Hawking and/or Darwin, but those things did not make me an atheist. What made me an atheist is religious history, it disproves itself, the three judeo/christian/ islamic faiths disprove their elligibility by simply existing. Science came later for me.
UtopiaMinor666 5 months ago
If McGrath is as he says "wedded to evidence based thinking" why is he arguing from a standpoint "Christianity" for which there is no evidence whatsoever. Its obvious he isn,t wedded to evidence based thinking but faith in the wild stories of some Palestinian nutjobs of 1600 yrs ago !
brogs60 5 months ago
@brogs60 See this is the problem- 1600 years ago? Palestinian? You are ALL WRONG!