I think the highest value I have is the value of being an individualist. The only social structures I will adopt are the mandatory ones like the education system, tax system, specific place of employment etc. Aside from those I have no interest in meeting any other expectations. Effectively I've opted out of social hierarchies. It's human nature to prop up our perceived strengths and make them seem more valuable than they really are. I just see that type of behavior as a sign of insecurity.
It's like in High School where you see a jock point at the physically weak or the nerds talk about the less intelligent or the attractive students talk about the less attractive students. Almost all personality disorders are tied with self confidence. Having too much or too little will magnify this type of behavior. There is no objective requirement for things like beauty, strength or intelligence. These things can be advantages, nothing more.
Something thats REALLY necessary for being "manly" is daring to be who you are, whatever you are, how you are. For example a true man should be able to walk around in a really feminine dress, thats pink, and be comfortable with who he is.
So, a conclusion of that is that I am saying that transexuals are true men?
No, what I am saying is a true man should be comfortable in any situation that reflects upon himself.
You could call it to dare being who you are and not giving in to group pressure.
People have to out bench,squat, and deadlift me in order for their negative comments to mean anything. I'm no longer interested in women but I still get a kick out of having falsehoods of sexual preference yelled out car windows. It doesn't offend me anymore I just think "I still know how to inspire normal skum lol"
Aged 20 as an Aspergers guy. I kind of go along with a slightly stereotypical English chivalrous idea being a man is looking after the people you love. but not picking fights and causing trouble.
I also cant stand men who are so dickheaded about women's appearance i don't get how some guys don't realize that women are people too
I'm 24, I'm not a stereotypical beer and football simple guy, I'm really into creating music and my imagination and just creative types of things, I think in away I'm isolated a lo because of it, but I like myself the way I am I just want someone to love me for myself... I'm masculine in my own way bu I also have a lot of compassion for people that isn't generally a very traditionally masculine trait, I think that people see it as a weakness, I don't think about things the same way.
hi, I am a 27 years old man from Calcutta, India, my name is Angelo Immanuel. I can not watch rape even in movies( like - Taken in broad daylight ). I can not see the tears of a female rape victim. To me, girls are like sweet and soft flowers. I do exercise not to look good but to be strong to break the bones of rapists and to cut their penises.
Im a Man because i have a penis. i dont like sports and i have longer hair than you, if anyone thinks im any less of a man because of it fuck'em i dont give a shit about anyones oppinion that i didnt ask for.
there is no such thing as a "lesser" man, if your a man and you live your life the best that you can, then your just as good as all the other men out there. There are no boundaries of manhood. Your either a man or your not! If your corrupt and horrible you are not a man, you are a simple evil person.
@zangoish The average size for a woman in the UK is a size 16. I'm a size 12. I think that clears up the 'fatty' issue. I just have a round face, and believe me, I'm aware of it already. Ugliness shouldn't be a barrier to making videos.
Perhaps you could try commenting on the video next time, rather than the person's appearance. It makes you look less like a moron. Thanks!
As long as you aren't hurting other folks physicaly or emottionaly, do what you want. Shave your head, watch footbal, and hang out in groups. Or wear pink nail polish and watch, well, I don't care what you watch, or how you dress. If you have the genitals of a man, and identify as a man, you are one. There are no greater or lesser men, just people who beahave more skillfuly than others.
"Macho" are the guys who have been hit and treated like shit by their ignorant parents. They project the violence unto others as they only know that to get something you need to use violence.
It takes a lot of indecency and lack of individuality to be "macho".
Attention seeking, narcissistic disorder, substance abuse, you name it, they all come in the same package.
In response, media & culture dictates a diverging viewpoint of things. My father, i revered him & would rather be like John Wayne. Someone with courage, compassion, and personal conviction. That's more important than "the in thing" which changes from one decade to another.
A real man knows WHEN to fight (not often) & when to walk away. Literally & figuratively.
A real man defends his family, works for them, and takes care of them. Even if it means hurting himself.
I think a lot of that stuff is dictated by your culture and religion. Not all groups value physical strength and competitiveness. I was surprised to find out that some christian denominations stress NON-competitiveness. Yet their men are healthy and not effeminate. The neighborhood where I grew up had many guys who thought that they had to be able to withstand pain and the measure of a man was how much pain he could withstand. In philosophy this would be similar to the ancient Greek stoics
I.M.O.If someone is nasty/rude too me, I try to say yes I am, smile and TRY too walk away(but my instinct wants too better them,touch wood I keep it under control).
Its much harder too be a passive, but sometimes you clash with others and both of you think they're in the right, but don't know how too deal with it.
"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42 NAB)
If I had to give my version of masculinity, it would be passion, intellect, and reverence for all life (even though I'm very misanthropic). All in all, portraying something you are clearly not is probably the lowest form of masculinity. We've evolved to a point where ingenuity is much more important than false machismo.
I think typically the machismo projection is somewhat false. I've a few friends who portray this character of masculinity yet in private quarters, they aren't what they appear to be. Machismo, from my experience, seems to originate from insecurity. I think the idea of masculinity is quite subjective.
I generally think conformity for the sake of conformity is weak and takes away anything interesting about you. The ability to set and accomplish goals really makes a man a man, and a woman a woman.
I think gender roles are lame in general because they put people into stereotyped boxes.
If you act tough because you want to appear tough, then you aren't tough enough to be yourself.
Back in the day I used to like Pepe "Macho" jeans (just the name of a particular make and cut) does that count?
When I worked on the odd building site and arrived for work with traces of eye make-up from the night before (a new romantic/goth/punk thing from before your time) I used to get ribbed mercilessly.
I actually enjoyed the drama and liked to make those guys confront their silly attitudes.
Unfortunately the average macho right wing Sun reading car/football fanatics seldom got the point.
This pertains exactly to what happened to me in the Seven Stars last week. My thinking on it is that I simply just don't care. I don't fling my masculinity around, I find it unnecessary to prove to other males in that chest thumping manner exactly how manly I am, or am not. It means i'll never fit in with the bloke group, but then again, it means that I am happy in myself, and the man I am, and it makes for a far more enriched and diverse group of friends.
I never really hung around people like you describe; I didn't have much in common with them. In the US, we call them "douchebags."
I have always liked "rugged individuals," but the kind of "toughness" the guys you describe wear on their sleeve suggests a kind of overcompensatory posture.
The toughest guys don't give a damn what others thought. Most of my friends are like that.
I always think less of a guy who is always trying to prove to me how tough he is. Talk and posing is cheap.
Also, the guys you describe rarely master the world around them. It's the guys with a work ethic and commitment to rational thinking and moral principles who make a mark on the world.
So my own personal struggle has nothing to do with anyone but me. I know when I could've been a better man than I was, and I have many regrets. But I work on those deficiencies daily because I have to live in my own head and listen to the tedious soliloquys of my own conscience. I know who I *want* to be.
As a teenager was it really importent to be a real man, no pink shirts, be able to hodl the liqoure, be rock hard and tough, heck i even ended up in a neonazi gang.
But after 20 something i matured and those things wasnt as importent any more.
INow at 35 i dont need to defend my masculinity any more, i can wear a pink t-shirt, i can give a man a hug and i can talk about my emotions with my wife and friends. I am not turning gay or a wimp for doing it.
I don't think it's isolated to the UK by any means, since I experienced it growing up in the US too, both North and South.
You can speculate on why endlessly, but my own personal belief is that with all the confusion that adolescence brings, it's much simply to find a group that offers easy answers and acceptance than to face yourself and be the object of torment for said group.
Gladly, after leaving school, most people seem to grow out of that.
Understand that I'm one of the older ones responding, but back in the day it was very much an "ideal" to be macho. I didn't feel like I'd joined the fraternity until I'd had a fist-fight. Pretty sad, but that's the culture I was born into. I out-grew my culture, but I had to be confident in myself before I could move beyond it.
"but I had to be confident in myself before I could move beyond it."
I think that's exactly right. We are social creatures and the pressure to conform is intense, particularly for the youths among us. A young person's image of themself is often a reflection of what others tell them that they are. It takes maturity and true self confindence to step away from that cycle.
I have never wanted to conform to the kind of group behavior you are describing and have always thought it took a lesser man to desire the security that a group offers. I guess I disagree with you that there is a perception of the individual being a lesser man. I view it as the opposite, and whether other people agree with me or not, that is how I perceive it.
Oh no I agree with you, I wasn't presenting that as MY opinion. It's only the perception of the 'laddish' men to see non-conformists as 'weak' or 'lesser'. I agree with you, I totally think that it's much weaker to just accept something as 'the right way to be' and not question it.
At any given time, all humans are either seeking pleasure or avoiding pain. This is often subconscious. Failure is painful and is to be avoided at all costs; such is the mindset of the young man. To conform to the perceived models of success will be paramount. Because the young person will have limited experience he will perceive limited options. Hopefully, he will eventually see that there are many ways to respect and success. Also, he will learn that pain always instructs. So it can be useful.
wb, hmm. the 'lesser man' approach seemed like claiming myself back from instinctive control to a degree, but i assert my 'man' in atypical ways rather than not asserting it at all. whatever degree of Man you have finds a means of expression, when diverted from typical behavior can be unique and interesting. (personal experiences, shrugs).
I think the highest value I have is the value of being an individualist. The only social structures I will adopt are the mandatory ones like the education system, tax system, specific place of employment etc. Aside from those I have no interest in meeting any other expectations. Effectively I've opted out of social hierarchies. It's human nature to prop up our perceived strengths and make them seem more valuable than they really are. I just see that type of behavior as a sign of insecurity.
AgentGhost 7 months ago
@AgentGhost
It's like in High School where you see a jock point at the physically weak or the nerds talk about the less intelligent or the attractive students talk about the less attractive students. Almost all personality disorders are tied with self confidence. Having too much or too little will magnify this type of behavior. There is no objective requirement for things like beauty, strength or intelligence. These things can be advantages, nothing more.
AgentGhost 7 months ago
Something thats REALLY necessary for being "manly" is daring to be who you are, whatever you are, how you are. For example a true man should be able to walk around in a really feminine dress, thats pink, and be comfortable with who he is.
So, a conclusion of that is that I am saying that transexuals are true men?
No, what I am saying is a true man should be comfortable in any situation that reflects upon himself.
You could call it to dare being who you are and not giving in to group pressure.
paffsify 7 months ago
People have to out bench,squat, and deadlift me in order for their negative comments to mean anything. I'm no longer interested in women but I still get a kick out of having falsehoods of sexual preference yelled out car windows. It doesn't offend me anymore I just think "I still know how to inspire normal skum lol"
Turvein 7 months ago
Aged 20 as an Aspergers guy. I kind of go along with a slightly stereotypical English chivalrous idea being a man is looking after the people you love. but not picking fights and causing trouble.
I also cant stand men who are so dickheaded about women's appearance i don't get how some guys don't realize that women are people too
Ignore the comment above you look fine. :)
davyhotch 8 months ago
I'm 24, I'm not a stereotypical beer and football simple guy, I'm really into creating music and my imagination and just creative types of things, I think in away I'm isolated a lo because of it, but I like myself the way I am I just want someone to love me for myself... I'm masculine in my own way bu I also have a lot of compassion for people that isn't generally a very traditionally masculine trait, I think that people see it as a weakness, I don't think about things the same way.
BlotBlackInk 9 months ago
hi, I am a 27 years old man from Calcutta, India, my name is Angelo Immanuel. I can not watch rape even in movies( like - Taken in broad daylight ). I can not see the tears of a female rape victim. To me, girls are like sweet and soft flowers. I do exercise not to look good but to be strong to break the bones of rapists and to cut their penises.
angeloimmanuel 10 months ago
the answer is simply down to choice. for it is our right to decide for ourselves.
rico46davis 10 months ago
Im a Man because i have a penis. i dont like sports and i have longer hair than you, if anyone thinks im any less of a man because of it fuck'em i dont give a shit about anyones oppinion that i didnt ask for.
Masamune7vii 11 months ago
there is no such thing as a "lesser" man, if your a man and you live your life the best that you can, then your just as good as all the other men out there. There are no boundaries of manhood. Your either a man or your not! If your corrupt and horrible you are not a man, you are a simple evil person.
giorgios95 1 year ago
I 'LL DO HER AFTER A 12 PACK OF BEER ..........
jep91975 1 year ago
Comment removed
sampopel 1 year ago
hallow fatty!
zangoish 1 year ago
@zangoish shes so beautiful open ur eyes.
johmarie7 1 year ago
@johmarie7 the fat is covering it
zangoish 1 year ago
@zangoish The average size for a woman in the UK is a size 16. I'm a size 12. I think that clears up the 'fatty' issue. I just have a round face, and believe me, I'm aware of it already. Ugliness shouldn't be a barrier to making videos.
Perhaps you could try commenting on the video next time, rather than the person's appearance. It makes you look less like a moron. Thanks!
bumeyes1000 1 year ago 3
@bumeyes1000
don't listen to him...I love girls with round faces & you don't look fat either
Abgef 1 year ago
@bumeyes1000 You are in no way ugly. carry on.
zestymexican 10 months ago
dangerous"
zangoish 1 year ago
As I grow up I don't want to be placed or place my self above others. That's wrong.
POLO2941 1 year ago
As long as you aren't hurting other folks physicaly or emottionaly, do what you want. Shave your head, watch footbal, and hang out in groups. Or wear pink nail polish and watch, well, I don't care what you watch, or how you dress. If you have the genitals of a man, and identify as a man, you are one. There are no greater or lesser men, just people who beahave more skillfuly than others.
milascave 1 year ago
Aaahh sexy!
nviso209 1 year ago
The only thing that makes anyone less of a man is adhering to what others claim being a man is all about.
MikaelHeed 2 years ago 3
@MikaelHeed I like that!
bumeyes1000 1 year ago
My Christian friends say dont take scriptures out of context, and I say I don't deserve the comment about hell,I didn't say that to you. T.O.T.
doomedglobe 2 years ago
"Macho" are the guys who have been hit and treated like shit by their ignorant parents. They project the violence unto others as they only know that to get something you need to use violence.
It takes a lot of indecency and lack of individuality to be "macho".
Attention seeking, narcissistic disorder, substance abuse, you name it, they all come in the same package.
asperin 2 years ago
i think your voice is VERY sexy
In response, media & culture dictates a diverging viewpoint of things. My father, i revered him & would rather be like John Wayne. Someone with courage, compassion, and personal conviction. That's more important than "the in thing" which changes from one decade to another.
A real man knows WHEN to fight (not often) & when to walk away. Literally & figuratively.
A real man defends his family, works for them, and takes care of them. Even if it means hurting himself.
JackTr1pper 2 years ago
A real man keeps his children "in line" and on the right side of the law. Yet tells them the truth about the world, how to cope, and how to adjust.
A real man does not spread hate or anger, He promotes virtue, strong work ethic, and take responsibility (for faults & actions).
just my two pennies.
JackTr1pper 2 years ago
I think a lot of that stuff is dictated by your culture and religion. Not all groups value physical strength and competitiveness. I was surprised to find out that some christian denominations stress NON-competitiveness. Yet their men are healthy and not effeminate. The neighborhood where I grew up had many guys who thought that they had to be able to withstand pain and the measure of a man was how much pain he could withstand. In philosophy this would be similar to the ancient Greek stoics
KasparHauser4 2 years ago
i dont know....i think think about it.....people just suck fuck em
jsthere2watchvideos 2 years ago
Strong independent men aren't those who shave their heads and follow all their mates around doing the dumb-arse things they're doing.
PencilsAreAwesome 2 years ago
I.M.O.If someone is nasty/rude too me, I try to say yes I am, smile and TRY too walk away(but my instinct wants too better them,touch wood I keep it under control).
doomedglobe 2 years ago
Its much harder too be a passive, but sometimes you clash with others and both of you think they're in the right, but don't know how too deal with it.
doomedglobe 2 years ago
"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42 NAB)
JackTr1pper 2 years ago
some men are bitches
lethalintention 2 years ago
If I had to give my version of masculinity, it would be passion, intellect, and reverence for all life (even though I'm very misanthropic). All in all, portraying something you are clearly not is probably the lowest form of masculinity. We've evolved to a point where ingenuity is much more important than false machismo.
shroomtheshrew 2 years ago
Thank you, agreed! :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
I think typically the machismo projection is somewhat false. I've a few friends who portray this character of masculinity yet in private quarters, they aren't what they appear to be. Machismo, from my experience, seems to originate from insecurity. I think the idea of masculinity is quite subjective.
shroomtheshrew 2 years ago
Real men stand on their character, morals, and values.
incubus022 2 years ago
but...but where does that leave George W. Bush then?
JackTr1pper 2 years ago
We had different groups in high school, the jocks, the stoners, the drinkers, and geeks. Each group has it's own ideas of what is macho,
You don't have to be a jock to be macho as long as others in your own "group" consider you macho.
justintempler 2 years ago
I generally think conformity for the sake of conformity is weak and takes away anything interesting about you. The ability to set and accomplish goals really makes a man a man, and a woman a woman.
I think gender roles are lame in general because they put people into stereotyped boxes.
If you act tough because you want to appear tough, then you aren't tough enough to be yourself.
geolab101 2 years ago
Back in the day I used to like Pepe "Macho" jeans (just the name of a particular make and cut) does that count?
When I worked on the odd building site and arrived for work with traces of eye make-up from the night before (a new romantic/goth/punk thing from before your time) I used to get ribbed mercilessly.
I actually enjoyed the drama and liked to make those guys confront their silly attitudes.
Unfortunately the average macho right wing Sun reading car/football fanatics seldom got the point.
bakedbean37 2 years ago
Enjoying making them confront their attitudes by your own rebellion or resistance is another very interesting point. Thank you! :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
I have a question for men too. What's with the nipples?
canadianbacon007 2 years ago
Hahahaha :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
This pertains exactly to what happened to me in the Seven Stars last week. My thinking on it is that I simply just don't care. I don't fling my masculinity around, I find it unnecessary to prove to other males in that chest thumping manner exactly how manly I am, or am not. It means i'll never fit in with the bloke group, but then again, it means that I am happy in myself, and the man I am, and it makes for a far more enriched and diverse group of friends.
midgetfellatio 2 years ago
Absoflippinlutely.
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
Yeah, I think it is a choice about what sort of friends you want, more than anything else.
I had a friend in the Army who started chewing tobacco, just like one of the pilots did. He eventually became a pilot, too.
To this day I still don't shite about sports, but I also still don't care.
I'll try to collect some thoughts about this and make a video response, later.
IWannabeJew 2 years ago
Great! :D
Thanks Uzi x
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
Meant to say "...KNOW shite about sports,..."
IWannabeJew 2 years ago
I never really hung around people like you describe; I didn't have much in common with them. In the US, we call them "douchebags."
I have always liked "rugged individuals," but the kind of "toughness" the guys you describe wear on their sleeve suggests a kind of overcompensatory posture.
The toughest guys don't give a damn what others thought. Most of my friends are like that.
I always think less of a guy who is always trying to prove to me how tough he is. Talk and posing is cheap.
Quag7 2 years ago
Also, the guys you describe rarely master the world around them. It's the guys with a work ethic and commitment to rational thinking and moral principles who make a mark on the world.
So my own personal struggle has nothing to do with anyone but me. I know when I could've been a better man than I was, and I have many regrets. But I work on those deficiencies daily because I have to live in my own head and listen to the tedious soliloquys of my own conscience. I know who I *want* to be.
Quag7 2 years ago
As a teenager was it really importent to be a real man, no pink shirts, be able to hodl the liqoure, be rock hard and tough, heck i even ended up in a neonazi gang.
But after 20 something i matured and those things wasnt as importent any more.
INow at 35 i dont need to defend my masculinity any more, i can wear a pink t-shirt, i can give a man a hug and i can talk about my emotions with my wife and friends. I am not turning gay or a wimp for doing it.
Gripen1974 2 years ago
I don't think it's isolated to the UK by any means, since I experienced it growing up in the US too, both North and South.
You can speculate on why endlessly, but my own personal belief is that with all the confusion that adolescence brings, it's much simply to find a group that offers easy answers and acceptance than to face yourself and be the object of torment for said group.
Gladly, after leaving school, most people seem to grow out of that.
princerhys 2 years ago
WB,
Its a hard question to respond to since it depends on what the goal is i guess.
Generally im pretty passive, just dont drive up my arsehole or we'll be having some road rage :)
Aspartame69 2 years ago
Understand that I'm one of the older ones responding, but back in the day it was very much an "ideal" to be macho. I didn't feel like I'd joined the fraternity until I'd had a fist-fight. Pretty sad, but that's the culture I was born into. I out-grew my culture, but I had to be confident in myself before I could move beyond it.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
Very interesting!
Thank you :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
"but I had to be confident in myself before I could move beyond it."
I think that's exactly right. We are social creatures and the pressure to conform is intense, particularly for the youths among us. A young person's image of themself is often a reflection of what others tell them that they are. It takes maturity and true self confindence to step away from that cycle.
CousinoMacul 2 years ago
Yes! You said it much more eloquently than I did, and you are exactly right, IMO.
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
I have never wanted to conform to the kind of group behavior you are describing and have always thought it took a lesser man to desire the security that a group offers. I guess I disagree with you that there is a perception of the individual being a lesser man. I view it as the opposite, and whether other people agree with me or not, that is how I perceive it.
1000jrb 2 years ago
Oh no I agree with you, I wasn't presenting that as MY opinion. It's only the perception of the 'laddish' men to see non-conformists as 'weak' or 'lesser'. I agree with you, I totally think that it's much weaker to just accept something as 'the right way to be' and not question it.
Just throwing it out there.
Thanks for your response! :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
same here...I fully agree.
kalsolarUK 2 years ago
At any given time, all humans are either seeking pleasure or avoiding pain. This is often subconscious. Failure is painful and is to be avoided at all costs; such is the mindset of the young man. To conform to the perceived models of success will be paramount. Because the young person will have limited experience he will perceive limited options. Hopefully, he will eventually see that there are many ways to respect and success. Also, he will learn that pain always instructs. So it can be useful.
shadyvista 2 years ago
What a bloody good answer. Brilliant! :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
wb, hmm. the 'lesser man' approach seemed like claiming myself back from instinctive control to a degree, but i assert my 'man' in atypical ways rather than not asserting it at all. whatever degree of Man you have finds a means of expression, when diverted from typical behavior can be unique and interesting. (personal experiences, shrugs).
auamoti 2 years ago
Yes, thank you, you've isolated what I was attempting to say for me. Indeed, I was talking about which ways you choose to express the masculinity.
Thanks! :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
Yes! I love that answer. :)
bumeyes1000 2 years ago
There are those of us who see silliness as silliness and those who don't. Those who do know that those who don't are the weak ones.
DynaCatlovesme 2 years ago