Second Chance New Mexico did worse than nothing: how was that possible?!

[jbxenia]

How could Narconon do worse than nothing?

Easy, if their program is entered with a lazy mentality of "Screw it, this program will take care of me and I don't have to put any effort into self-improvement!"

Then when their silly vitamin regimen does no good, the participant still isn't better AND has wasted time that they could have otherwise gone clean if they really wanted to.

[jesokingcryst]

Maybe it is the detachment from relity they impose on people (including themselves)?

[NicNasty1981]

It would be good if you could put links to all those studies in the description. Im sharing this by the way :P

[hollow0rld]

"Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." (Rev21:11)

Men can´t change !

[RyuDarragh]

Yes. I should have mentioned anything in excess of 200 dollars and being a "suspected" drug seller or user can also be confiscated. "Why, Mr. Plaintif, do you have $2300 in $100 bills on your coffee table?"..

[RyuDarragh]

Drug Paraphanalia: Bongs, roach clips, needles, any cutlery or other surfaces that show traces of drugs, pipes of both traditional and psychadelic forms. Rubber cord/tubing, grow lamps, plats from which drugs are obtained, chemicals and distillation apparatus (the kind they use to extract flavorings and scents from plants.. oh, and drugs). Anything at all showing traces of illicit drugs or could be imagined as being used to make or consume drugs.

[mikemikemofo]

you forgot money which DP joked about. it's been said that over 75% of all paper currency is contaminated with some sort of snortable nasal love although it probably won't pass in court for paraphenalia. this fact was used in a 94 court case although i'd probably consider a rolled up hundred on the glass coffee table next to the pile of brazilian marching powder to be drug paraphenalia. if that isn't then the 3" piece of a mcdonalds straw is.

[Desertphile]

"you forgot money which DP joked about."

18 years ago a woman in California used a $100 bill to buy groceries and the clerk called the sheriff. The sheriff went to the woman's house with a DEA "SWAT" team, kicked in the door, grabbed the woman, flung her to the floor, and when she screamed her spouse upstairs grabbed his gun and ran down to his wife and the DEA shot him dead. While the DEA was looking for drugs the telephone rang and the caller asked for the dead man. "He's busy" he was told.

[mikemikemofo]

who was phone?

[mikemikemofo]

you should have downed a 10mg valium with a glass of water round 10pm...would have slept like a baby;)

[ratburn20]

Could it be propigating the problem by giving it a way for the drugs to get in?

[AgentGhost]

Prison guards have a vested interest in promoting gangs inside prisons. It's much safer for them to pit the Prisoners against eachother than to have them realize how badly they are being fucked by the system. How else would a few hundred guards protect themselves from an uprising against tens of thousands of inmates? They want gangs to form in prisons. From our perspective, Scientology is another dumbass religion, for the prison system it's more division. Look up "Standford Prison experiment".

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"Scientology is another dumbass religion,"

Scientology is not a religion. It's a criminal enterprise.

[h8uall66]

Agreed, I put it in the same category as AmWay: A cult like criminal organization.

[felinoid]

Getting sent to jail for a drug offense is for some a signal that they need to get help so they get help. The graduates of this program would believe they no longer need any help. That is my theory.

[mtanti87]

It could be that only people who are likely to re-offend the law join the program... Maybe it somehow attracts them...

[Paxmax]

Bwahahha!! funny suggestion! worth thinking about!

[urantivirus]

What's behind that nicely decorated blanket we see in all your videos? Perhaps a messy room? lol only kidding

[mikemikemofo]

dp will probably never take the blanket down....would you show people the entrance to the bat cave?

[urantivirus]

lol

[8WholeThing]

Maybe they gain false confidence in their ability to handle drugs.

[SDcrooZer]

You have to think though, that this program might attract people, who, more than likely will return to their ways regardless of the programs stupidity. This is just a ploy for them(the offender) to appear to be doing the right thing. Just like tobacco, when someone is ready to quit...they will.

[NatureLegalized]

it appears that the combo of $ci junk in the mix does contibute greatly to the epic fail.

[anmoose]

A few other people have touched on this, and it seems simple and logical to me. Sitting on your ass contemplating your plight might lead you to NOT want to go back to prison, while also giving your system time to purge itself. When you get out, you're not as obsessed as you were before.

[anmoose]

With the $cientology method, you're in such physical and mental pain and anguish by the time it's over that you NEED drugs just to recover from it. And you get caught again.

That's my take on it.

(And why YouTube made me split this into 2 parts before it'd post is beyond me...)

[Teamrocketgg]

actually it could be simple bad luck. For example when testing prayer it was found that people that didn't pray got what they want statistically more often than people that did pray. To my understanding both put the same effort.

So does this mean prayer actually reduces your chances of getting what you want? No, it just means praying doesn't help. The praying participants just didn't do as well out of sheer chance rather than because prayer did anything period.

though you're likely right.

[mobiltec]

The Law Enforcement INDUSTRY is just that. An industry. Industry implies profit. Profit breeds greed and greed breeds corruption. The law enforcement industry is and has been corrupted since the beginning of time. And yes I DID shoot the sheriff. Fuck the deputy.

[EvilZoe]

I heard he likes you, too. The deputy.

*ducks*

[EvilZoe]

I think it's entirely possible that the programs create a higher level of stress on the participants and leave them far more prone to recidivism.

Stress in one's life situation is often the reason one even begins to use drugs in the first place. Adding more stress would only increase the likelihood of self-medication.

[capaonfire]

Could be that people with the tendencies to go into Scientology in the first place, may have more difficulty getting off drugs, because of their personality type. Just a shot in the dark theory that's not testable, but plausible.

[mobiltec]

"people with the tendencies to go into Scientology in the first place, may have more difficulty getting off drugs,"

In DP's last video on this subject I commented about how people with addictive personalities just swap one addiction for another. They are never really cured. Your comment elaborates on the same kind of thing. I believe you have something there.

[4G3NTanon]

Also, heavy use of some drugs (mainly cannabis) makes you somewhat immune to hypnotic techniques

as used universally by $cientology to get "results". Just thinking some more.

[4G3NTanon]

Actually DP there is another angle to this question. What constitutes a "successful" completion of the program. How are the subjects of this conflab certified to return to public life? IMO they are playing the system, fooling the "Instructors" that they have been "rehabbed" then returning to their old ways confident that they can keep on doing what ever they do, then if arrested again can go back and scam the scammers again. Just thinking.

[ChrisJMoor]

I doubt it has much to do with the actual program - even $cientology could not be that stupid / evil.

Selection bias maybe - perhaps those that voluntarily entered the program were prone to being repeat offenders anyway. If the program takes on only drug offenders but not the general prison population then this could inflate the failure rate if drug offenders are more likely to re-offend.

[4G3NTanon]

"...even $cientology could not be that stupid / evil. "

Actually, yes they are. L.Fraud Hubbard could not see past the 1950's. He had no insight AT ALL about late 20th century society.

[UnboundPromethean]

Second chance probably encourages repeat offenders in the same way that children born in strict catholic families have to constantly keep on making up sins to tell the priest in the confession box.

[h8uall66]

Are you telling me that there is a good chance that Kent Hovind is sitting in prison right now getting dumber? Holy crap! Dumb is like reverse-Kryptonite to that guy. He's like the Hulk, except in stead of anger making him stronger, it's stupidity. And worse still, his stupidity is contagious, just look at VenomFangX. He's like a Stupomotron bomb waiting to go off and deliver a deadly yield of 50 Megatards!

[jonesr999]

Did it accomplish the goal of loading the Scientology coffers with more gold? Then it accomplished something.

[sausage4mash]

I mean  $cientolgy opps sorry

[sausage4mash]

doing nothing is not really doing nothing people perhaps have time to reflect ,a time taken away by creationism ? just an idea

[shockferret]

In prayer studies comparing the recovery rates of sick people who are being prayed for versus those not; to see if prayer increases the rate of recovery, I have heard that in some studies, the people being prayed for did statistically WORSE.

The belief that you are in the care of a superior power or technique could make you skip meds or ignore a doctor's advice, or in this case, hang out with your old gang again, confident that you can resist the temptation to relapse.

[Ishta5]

The ones who entered the program are addicts and repeat offenders to start with. The ones who felt confident that this was their last stay, had no need

[Teamrocketgg]

actually that's a good logical point you got there. Hard to find comments like this on youtube so good on ya :)

[Ishta5]

I am not saying it works but, and the number do not indicate that it dose. think of it as weight watchers. Saying 50% of people who followed the program are fat. theres is 20% fat people in the country, so it is worse than doing nothing, ergo weight watchers makes people fat.

[smaakjeks]

The figures are not calculated against the whole population, ishta5.

[Ishta5]

they are calculated on the whole prison population, and if only the one who felt that they could reoffend joined and not a random selection it will affect the result. but if the ones who joined where randomly selected it would indicate that the program made them worse.

[Ishta5]

småkjeks så ikke det før nu. When 1/3 of the group is known reoffenders. that means that 33,333% likely to fail. It is higher than the averaged in the prison system as a whole. So I do not see how these figures show evidence for the "success rate of producing criminals". If they were supposed to make criminals, we would say they cheated because they already had a higher number of reoffenders to start with. on top of that there is addicts.

[smaakjeks]

Okay, I didn't see the first comment you made, where you said that the people who entered the program already were reoffenders. If that's true then that obviously makes the results biased. I only saw the comment you made in response to Teamrocketgg.

[SamTay04]

That's not a really good comparison Ishta5. It would be more like if 50% of fat people lost weight by sitting on their ass, and 20% of fat people in weight watchers lost weight.

[Ishta5]

no the prison has people who is likely to reoffend and some that are not, the biggest number in the program is known reoffenders. that means the averaged % of reoffenders is higher in the group than the averaged in the prison system as a whole. unless it was random pick it is not scientific evidence, that the program makes it worse.

[SamTay04]

"unless it was random pick it is not scientific evidence, that the program makes it worse."

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with your other comments. I was just pointing out that your comparison of the program to Weight Watchers didnt really reflect what was going on with the second chance program.

[SamTay04]

If people where saying that the program is worse than nothing by comparing the people in the second chance program to the general population rather than the rest of the prison population then your comparison would be more accurate.

[wallywalt]

I'll Betcha that little dick Cheney has vested interests in Both the pokeys AND the dianetics (probably the drugs, too)

[747dog]

...Second Chance is just a cover for their drug pushing business in prisons... Thats where the real profit is... and when the cons get out they have a job waiting on them... guess what that job is...

[kokoshu]

I think of it like a small fire. If left alone it will burn for so long and do x amount of damage. But if someone comes along and pours fuel on the fire, it will now burn longer and do more than x damage. Perhaps their "treatment" sucks so bad, it is actually causing people to stay on drugs.

[isegoria1]

1. They reoffend because they operate in a belief. The belief that they can get away with it.

2. In that belief they pull faith (ignorance in action) and reoffend.

3. narCONnon - It is the herding instinct. Surprisingly a great many people do not want to think. narCONnon makes this possible so they go back

4. A need for significance. If I am a zero and I point a gun at you, how significant do I become? 10,a big fat easy 10.

5. People are lazy. They will go for biggest prize minimal work.

[SilverKytsune]

I think that number 5 has the highest possible outcome. If there exists a program that simply persists of saunas, back rubs, and vitamin treatment it may be more enticing than a program that requires reflection, group therapy, and/or self introspection as per modern psychiatric treatment.

The people who join in realize they don't have to do any work, they're conceited to their own con, but they're part of a treatment and therefore look good to everyone else, while they discover their next fix.

[isegoria1]

I agree - but I think it is a combination of all of them. Some more than others depending on the person.

[SilverKytsune]

Oh yeah. I think that I forgot to articulate that I was attempting to fixate on the type "most likely to re-offend after taking this class" a type of person most-likely to (1) seek out classes like this and (2) therefore skew the "nothing at all" metric; because as a con they don't want to be in the "nothing at all" group anyway, they want to be seen to behave well.

I just realized. It would be interesting to know if there's a particular personality type who tend to re-offend from NarCONON.

[Demonaphia]

Drug paraphernalia would refer to things like bongs, lighters, papers for cigarettes, etc. Stuff that has no practical use except for in the use of drugs.

[747dog]

... I think desertphile was acting ingorant to cover his ass... He fuckin knows what that shit is... ha ha...

[EvilZoe]

Papers and lighters are NOT considered paraphernalia as they have legitimate uses.

Pipes, syringes (without doctor approval), spoons with burned basins, etc. WOULD be considered paraphernalia.

[Demonaphia]

I was refering to a prison enviroment, since that's the context Desertphile brought up. I don't think lighters or cigarette papers have any legitimate use there. Though, I may certainly be wrong.

[EvilZoe]

Actually, he was referring to what crimes people committed to get back INTO prison, which would naturally involve being on the outside.

At least that was my take on it.

And I'd imagine that some prisons that still allowed smoking might also allow cigarette papers.  Not sure about lighters, but that would also depend on the prison.

[anmoose]

"Papers and lighters are NOT considered paraphernalia as they have legitimate uses."

Not necessarily. When a pack of ZigZags and a lighter are in the same baggie as your stash of weed, they'll pretty surely be referred to as paraphernalia. :-)

[EvilZoe]

They'd more likely just hang the week offense on you since THAT one would be hard to argue as having another use.

A lawyer could easily argue the alternate uses of papers and a lighter. It wouldn't be a charge they'd be sure of making stick.

This is all, of course, based on my own PERSONAL experience in being arrested on paraphernalia charges, and it dates back over 15 years.

[anmoose]

Granted, the ounce of sticky bud in that baggie would interest them vastly more than the paraphernalia. I just showed it as an example of guilt by association. My own experience dates back over 30 years. And it took me 3 damn years to pay off that attorney. LOL

[EvilZoe]

You mean we're not angel saint goody-two-shoes'?

[anmoose]

*ahem* Ummm... Sure... Of course we are. Just as angelic as they come...

*scurries off to stash bong*

[EvilZoe]

Duh.....that 'week' should read WEED.

[pagangeek]

its simple lets say i want to get of my drugs use, i go to the second change progam now the program will do more to increase my cravings for drugs then no action at all there for the results will come out worse the sitting on my ass.

[slipcurve]

I have my own theory.

Perhaps once a person gets out of the grip of scientology and it's programs, they are depressed of all the mindfucking and they turn to drugs in order to deal with it.

[BKF666]

Good theory. It could also just be as soon as they hear a tape with the voice of LRH they need something to stop the pain.

[auchraw]

For the third or fourth time, I don't think this program has anything to do with drugs. It has to do with criminal behaviour and recidivism. Question is: how many dangerous people are recruited by the Scithugs inside prisons? Why are the Scithugs doing this, apart from money?

[BKF666]

My post was on "slipcurve" comment "Perhaps once a person gets out of the grip of scientology and it's programs, they are depressed of all the mindfucking and they turn to drugs in order to deal with it."

I know the video was the failing of second chance. But in "slipcurve" defense a good chunk of the failing teachers from second chance that went to jail went on drug charges.

So "auchraw" "for the third or fourth time, I don't think this program has anything to do with drugs." It does relate.

[geroldkid]

That happens a lot.

[Airave]

How did they get into the Fed system at all? Ok......., what does scientology have to gain from selling the gov. non-productive (or minus) products and/or services. Wait is there a pattern here...? But really this is crazy stuff based on either "good ol' boy" or strongarm technique. I almost prefer those options to just plain stupidity- for the sake of Human Intelligence. We need a neo-French Revolution in this country/world. Shit's way outta hand.

[tmafkap]

Viva la good old Guillotine!

[rich0319726]

Perhaps, people that decide to join that program, are somehow different to start with, that those who decide not to join. Perhaps there are significant intellectual or emotional differences in people that do or don't join program(s). Its like some people decide to join AA, or not. Some prisoners become religious while in prison, some don't. Perhaps there is something going on before they join, that makes them almost predetermined to have a more likely outcome?

[157626]

To hell with any success rates! Scientology is SCAMMING people!!!

[mortemdei]

I know, it's because they like it so much, that they commit crimes just for the sake of getting back to the program

[ChristianlySkeptical]

The answer is even simpler. $cilontology is designed to create criminals. It's designed to CREATE risk factors by reducing the threshold of what is and isn't an acceptable act. The underlying basis of the program is criminal insanity, so as people slowly go along in the program, they get worse not better. Also, given the leaders / teachers get busted for probation / drug violations, think about the realities of teachers in 2nd Chance selling drugs to students on lockdown.

[windham666]

the answer is - scientology sucks!