I think there is a great tendency in our society to lower the standard that Jesus set. The first requirement to being saved is an honest repentance and turning away from our sins, no matter what they may be. This goes for all sin, including sexual sin. This requirement is mandatory and cannot be changed. It transcends time and culture. Even though our society may not like this high standard, the standard that God set remains firm. It is non-negotiable.
As a straight Christian, I am ashamed of how many other Christians and churches turn their backs on gay people. As well, I am also ashamed of the churches out there that allow their members to practice a homosexual lifestyle. Being homosexual is a sin, it says so in the Bible. But all sin's are equal in the sight of God. So as Christians, we don't have the right to judge them. We should accept all people for who they are and love them so much that we don't want them to stay that way.
@TheStrong32 every single one I've met has those issues (typically more than one) and yes, many people who are not gay have the same issues in their past... and they have other manifestations they struggle with such as eating disorders, phobias, anxiety, insomnia, sexual dysfunction, and on and on and on... and those are their sins to hand over to God. Flip side, show me one who doesn't because I haven't found one yet. And as for lifestyle; my own life is proof as well as that of others.
@gezmom "every single one I've met has those issues (typically more than one) and yes, many people who are not gay have the same issues in their past... and they have other manifestations they struggle with such as eating disorders, phobias, anxiety, insomnia, sexual dysfunction, and on and on and on... "
None of ANY of this has anything at all to do with sexual orientation. You are describing the human condition. It is all completely irrelevant to your argument.
@gezmom You still have not described to me what the so-called "gay lifestyle" is. I know lots of gays who have none of the problems you specified (well, maybe occasional insomnia--but everyone has that). And I know lots of evangelical Christians who do. What is this "lifestyle" you keep talking about?
@TheStrong32 btw, I've also met obese people who are hell-bent to make others accept them... doesn't make it healthy. I've met scores of others who justify their sin with any number of "valid reasons and logic"... doesn't make it right or biblical. As one who has seen both sides of the coin; it's not judgment, it's personal experience; it's not interpretation, it's in black and white. if someone wants to stay that way, fine; however, I have tasted a freedom that is not mine to withhold.
@gezmom "As one who has seen both sides of the coin; it's not judgment, it's personal experience"
This is the error a number of so-called "ex-gays" fall into. They are taught to focus only on their negative experiences and then universalize them, so that they falsly attribute all the negatives to their homosexuality, and then try to claim that ALL homosexuals have the same negative experiences. It is simply not true.
God wants wholeness and fulfillment for all His creation. We all struggle with sin and we have to lay our own selfishness down daily. He never says one will go to hell for their sexuality; one's fate is sealed only by their choice to accept or deny Christ as Savior. However, once one accepts, one is then obligated to the process of sanctification, allowing God to reveal and remove all our sins. Time to put agendas aside and focus solely on growing towards who He means for us to be.
@gezmom "However, once one accepts, one is then obligated to the process of sanctification, allowing God to reveal and remove all our sins. Time to put agendas aside and focus solely on growing towards who He means for us to be."
I agree with this completely. Time to put agendas aside, focus on growing towards Christ and His will for us. Stop judging and condemning others. Show love in the name of Christ instead of hate. Amen.
@TheStrong32 the intent is not hate, the intent is to bring everyone together under the same authority. it is not a little thing when someone twists the bible to suit their sexual preference. if someone does not act on their urges and sees them as sin and repents, there is nothing anyone can say against them and they should be greeted as brothers and sisters.
@gezmom "God wants wholeness and fulfillment for all His creation. We all struggle with sin and we have to lay our own selfishness down daily."
This is absolutely true, but it does nothing to advance the anti-gay agenda. A gay Christian believes this also. God created us with our particular sexual orientation, and we believe He wants us to experience wholenss and fulfillment the way He made us. Why should we try to distort what He has wrought?
@TheStrong32" "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." You don't use reason when reading the scriptures, you cherry pick. I take it all as truth because if the Bible is false everything falls on its face. I don't presume to rewrite it for my own justification
@snappa52 You quoted one of my favorite verses from scripture--Mat. 19:12 Though I note that you actually changed the text: He didn't say "have renounced marriage"; He said "have made themselves eunuchs." I hate peraphrases; they show no respect for the Word of God. Your paraphrase is an indication that you too pick and choose from scripture. Everybody does--even you--whether they are aware of it or not. The question is, which verses are you concentrating on. Then the question becomes "Why?"
@TheStrong32 he is talking about marriage and the disciples said in reply it would be better not to marry than to do what he commanded. And he was talking about marriage between a husband and a wife, which would further convict your ideas but I didnt want to throw salt on a sore wound. My paraphrasing did not change the intent of the text, your paraphrasing to justify homosexuality does
@snappa52 "And he was talking about marriage between a husband and a wife, which would further convict your ideas."
I have no problem with straight people gettting married. Why would that "further convict" my ideas (unless maybe you mean, make me further convicted of the correctness of my ideas)?
@TheStrong32 You are convicted by the incorrectness of your ideas because you can only offer smug comments. This proves that you are making this up as you go
@TheStrong32 if it's not anti-Biblical monasticism is fine. Do you have evidence that it is anti-Biblical? The Irish monks who copied dutifully saved the great texts from the Anglos and the Saxons.
@snappa52 I have no problem at all with monasticism. It's just that so many Protestant claim "Sola Scriptura" and then denounce monasticism, when both Jesus and Paul praised a life of celibacy (when one is called to it).
@snappa52 "No, it's Anglo's. the Angles stayed in Germany, the one's who invaded England became Anglos."
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Oh Lord! My friend, I suggest a visit to your local neighborhood encyclopedia. Such as the fllowing from Wikipedia: "Angles were one of the main groups that settled in Britain in the post-Roman period, founding several of the kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England, and their name is the root of the name 'England'."
@TheStrong32 wikipedia is not known to be reliable. Angles who left Germany became Anglo's. That is where the title Anglo-Saxon came from. The English refer to their sphere of influence as their "Anglosphere". Once they were established in England Anglo became the term of preference, both refer to the same thing. My term is the widely used term, you've chosen the old term
@gezmom Everyone of the elements you describe are in the backgrounds of some people too. Why aren't they gay? Thee is no evidence of *causation* in any of these factors. Lots of gay people have none of these factors. How do you explain that?
@gezmom If you count the number of straight people who grew up in dysfunctional families, you would see that they produce a hell of a lot more straight kids than they do gay. The presence of dysfunction in the backgrounds of some gay people is no indication of causation; it's an indication of how many dysfunctional families there are in America. A distant father and protective mother may not create a gay son; a gay son may create a distant father and a protective mother. Ever think about that?
@gezmom Regarding "Sexual assault/rape/abuse" as a cause of homosexuality: First of all, there are probably few homosexuals who have that in their backgrond. I don't know any myself. Second of all, where it does exist it may be more of a matter of victimology. A child molester may be aware that he will have more success (and that the child will be less likely to tell) if he tries to groom a child who is gay.
@TheStrong32 Gnosticism is extra-biblical anyway; again, take the bible all the way or not at all; nothing more, nothing less. God spits out the luke warm. Christianity is not a pick-and-choose buffet of ideals. Furthermore, GLBT is a lifestyle, it's a choice, and no one's born that way. I know this because God delivered me and several others. I'm not some ignorant, raised in the choir, daddy-was-the-preacher moron; give your pointing finger a rest.
gays want to have their sin and eat it to...I had to give up alot of things / sin and submit my life to Christ and theres no way around that...PERIOD ! ! !
@caucazhin "gays want to have their sin and eat it to...I had to give up alot of things / sin and submit my life to Christ and theres no way around that...PERIOD ! ! !"
No, actually, they don't. At least gay Christians don't. Gay Christians realize that they have to examine their consciences and repent of their sins just like everyone else. You know, some gay Christians are celibate. That doesn't change the fact that they're gay. Do you think they're going to hell?
@TheStrong32 if people dont act on their urges and pray for forgiveness they will be forgiven. If a person acts on their urges and uses the bible to justify themselves it is an obvious abomination
Just because Steven (the second speaker who is gay) was a complete whore in his life, and drug dealer, does not mean all gays are that way. He had 100's of partners. I've had one. He assumes all gays are whores like him ane we're not. I'm glad he found God, but it doesnt mean everyone is like him.
@TheStrong32 That is an excellent point you bring up that I really didnt ever consider. Leave it to the fundies to make a business preying off of other peoples "percieved sin" believeing they can administer healing to a gay as though they had a disease! Jesus dealt pretty harshly with those types....:)
@pvampire "Steven (the second speaker who is gay) ... assumes all gays are whores like him ane we're not."
This is so true of a lot of "ex-gays." They get involved in some negative things and then try to universalize their individual experience and, worst of all, attempt to relate some *behavior* to a particular *sexual orientation*, as though the two are somehow related.
THe opening speaker says there is great misunderstanding on this subject. No theres not...You guys are haters who are using scripture to patranize gays and politly condemn them to hell...make no mistake, your message of hate is broadcast loud and clear! Wait till YOU face the judgment you are meeting out here...
Who said you're going to hell? You believe or you don't; that's the heaven or hell issue. Then, if you believe, whatever sin is in your life should become the next issue; that applies to all believers. And by the way, I've met way more GLBT than Christians that are the judgmental ones. I've never hated anyone for their lifestyle. I know your pain; it's a shame your so filled with bitterness that your quick to bite a hand of kindness.
I believe there is a reason for many to feel like they've been hated. There is a reason for bitterness. Very little comes out of the conservative Christianity in the way of "kindness" (pointing out the sin does not equate love).
Hate is a choice; holding onto offense is a choice. Holding the whole accountable for the mistakes of the few is a choice and lends one more toward hatred. As I said before, the main issue should be belief vs. unbelief. God is all or nothing; He's not into this New age idea of open relationship between you and Him; He wants your whole heart. You can't judge God based on fallible people. You'd find a lot more love if you'd quit looking for hate.
And furthermore, if it's done in love, pointing out sin is indeed loving. It's a sin to steal; does my two year old know that? If I don't hold him accountable then I don't demonstrate love. Depends on how it's done. You can't serve two masters; you're either for God and have a heart to be all His or you want to be part of a temporary and deprave world that, when all is said and done, will leave you empty. The gamble of living for God is WAY less risky than the gamble of living against Him.
@gezmom "you're either for God and have a heart to be all His or you want to be part of a temporary and deprave world"
Sinfulness and depravity have nothing to do with sexual orientation. One can be straight and be sinful and depraved. One can be gay and still love God and be obedient to His Word. Sexual orientation is not a choice. Remember, yours is not the only interpretation out there. You have no objective criteria that guarantees your interpretation of the Bible is the only correct one.
@gezmom "Hate is a choice" I fully agree. So why do so many Christians choose to hate? (I speak as a Christian). So many times we have shown hatred: to Jews, to those we consider "heretics", to the enslaved, to women. The Gospel of love is not "New Age"--that's something entirely different, it's modern Gnosticism--the Gospel of love is the one Jesus taught. He didn't hate, exclude, shun, discriminate and seek to deny the rights of anyone. Gay Christians don't "judge God", they love God.
@gezmom "I've met way more GLBT than Christians that are the judgmental ones."
Maybe you haven't noticed, because you identify with the Christians, while the GLBT people are the "others."
"I've never hated anyone for their lifestyle."By the mere use of the word "lifestyle" you are showing your prejudice. What exactly is this "gay lifestyle"? There's no such thing. Every LGBT person is a unique individual, living their own life. Attempting to lump everyone together is just stereotyping.
@pvampire They're also not telling the truth about the "ex-gay" industry. Lots of people have jumped on the bandwagon because they know there's money to be made. First they manufacture fear and prejudice and then they swoop in to prey on frightened parents and their hapless children, who will pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their "ministry." Talk about money-changing in the Temple!
@TazHall "No, he said it wasn't kosher." No, he said it was an "abomination" (Leviticus 11:10-12). The kosher laws told the Jews what was clean and unclean (anything in the waters with fins and scales was clean, anything that didn't was unclean). Eating that which is unclean was an abomination.
snappa - There is a saying in German "Die ton macht die musik." -- The way you say things tells what you mean.. I said what I said.. That is my impression of you.. I am 50 years old.. I have met plenty of people who said they were "non-denominational" - always to the same end.. hence, i do not care to discuss further.. I asked you a question about security of the believer and you skirted the issue... ERGO, all that indicates to me is that you have LAME THEOLOGY, without one thought of your own.
i didnt skirt the issue, i gave you an answer that you didnt like. baptism does not assure you salvation if you dont repent of your sins. ergo, you are held just as accountable as i am. you dont get a pass on Jesus' commandments because you prefer homosexual relationships. peace.
And, again, YOU are not the arbiter of interpretation for the document known as the bible. Perhaps a career in auto sales would be just the ticket... as you persistently run your mouth on the same broken record and don't understand the words, "I don't believe YOU, and never will."
you're right, i'm not the arbiter. and 2000 years of church "arbiters" agree with my theology. i'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking. but when someone blatantly lies, guapobear, it has to be refuted. an unrefuted lie stands as truth.
Hi there.. Let's see.. 10% Homosexuals.. vs. 90% Heterosexuals??? You are in the WRONG market segment.. If you are a big enough fool to think you are "winning" people for Jesus here, you are as dumb as GWB looks.. GET A LIFE OR AT LEAST A JOB THAT WILL KEEP YOU OFF THE COMPUTER..
abosolutely no substance to what you are saying. you are a bombastic person with no regard to the gospel or its integrity. the only proof that you give is emotion and the idea that you are entitled to cross out passages and pages that dont suit your sexual agenda. i invite you to stay on the computer so you can learn something about the faith you pretend to follow. its absurd that your sexual preference supercedes 2000+ years of scripture.
snappa52 - absolutely no -- And some Catholics still think the Pope (the former Cardinal Ratzinger) is infallible. BTW, you're really projecting about the sexual agenda thing.. Freud? .. What is absurd is that your "non-denominational" theology is supposed to trump 2000 years of Christianity in the case of scripture and history (of which God actively played a part).. BTW, YOU WERE RUDE TO THAT KID.. 2 minutes and "keep your remarks brief"...
because he was not scheduled! he got to speak for a long time too. is he the only one in the audience that had the right to speak? do you think that they had that venue for an unlimited time?
my theology is compatible with scripture. when the scripture says something i accept it as truth, you do not. you try and twist innocent verses to suit your sexual orientation while completely ignoring the rest. we are all bound to the commandments of the scripture and its moral authority, you included
@snappa52 "my theology is compatible with scripture. when the scripture says something i accept it as truth," Your problem is that you confuse your INTERPRETATION with THE truth. Gay-affirming theology is compatible with scripture also; it's just a different interpretation.
@TheStrong32 To say that Gay affirming theology is a different interpretation, you are completely wrong. It is a falshood. There has never been affirmation of homosexuality and the Mosaic law that Jesus followed as a Jew confirms this. Jesus defined marriage as a union between a man and woman. He said (paraphrasing), "In the beginning God brought man and woman together, and what God brings together let no one separate."
@snappa52 "To say that Gay affirming theology is a different interpretation, you are completely wrong. It is a falshood."
You are still extolling nothing more than your interpretation. Differing interpetation has been the source of countless wars and violence between Christians. But Jesus said, "By this shall all men know ye are my disciples: how you love one another."
@snappa52 "In the beginning God brought man and woman together, and what God brings together let no one separate." No gay-affirming Christian has any problem with this verse. Some interpret it as excluding same-sex marriage, some interpret it only as affirming the norm (without excluding diversity) . Scripture also says, "male and female made He them." But what about hermaphrodites? Does this verse mean hermaphrodites are not made by God? Maybe God is more creative than we give Him credit for.
i'm projecting the sexual agenda thing because it is the basis for your theology. you dont base your life on the scripture, you base your life on being homosexual, and you inflect that back into the scripture to justify it instead of vice versa. the scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support a homosexual agenda. you have no substance in what you say. all of your comments are emotional with no support from the scripture. zero support, NONE.
snappa52 - "..because it is the basis for your theology.." - a broad sweeping claim with no substance.. lame.. We are back to the level of the world being flat.. and that's about where you are intellectually.. I'm sure if one started to dig, there are many other subjects besides sexual roles in which you can display your close-minded submission to "what somebody told you"... I'm glad to say that when I looked for a friend, I found Jesus..
the bible never said that the world was flat, that was doctrine. Jesus loves us all when we love Him. and the criteria for loving Him is following His commandments. He doesnt expect us to follow them perfectly. but when we fail he expects us to repent and CHANGE from sin.
snappa52 - "the bible never" - I certainly agree that the bible never said that the world was flat and "that was doctrine"... THE DOCTRINE WAS BASED UPON MISINTERPRETATION.. and exactly makes my point.. AND A WEALTH OF MAJOR THEOLOGIANS IN THE US AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AGREE on a much different interpretation of the scriptures regarding sexual roles from yours. Coming to Colombia or Harvard for a debate? Sorry, but we don't do religion at Juilliard.
I would go to Harvard if i wanted to debate a muslim. I would go to Columbia if i wanted to debate a Jesuit.
I'm asking you, and all of your 50 years of experience to cite for me verses that support your position. can you do this or are you limited to name dropping?
God doesnt want us to knowingly sin because we know we can repent....and another thing, God said he is the same Yesterday, today and tomorow (from a respnse you had to one of my comments earlier) He in no part of the bible condones homosexuality and fornication(called both an abomination). I will not call you an idiot like you did me, I just believe the whole word of God. Not parts that I can twist to fit my lifestyle. God Bless!!!!
this came up as a reply to me on the notification. have i called you an idiot or supported any of the things that you say are antibiblical? i didnt say any of that
"the scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support a homosexual agenda."
I agree 100%. Homosexuality is nothing new. They were dealing with it in the early church just the same. God is greater than the sexuality he CREATED and he can correct it, but people don't want it corrected.
@TazHall "God is greater than the sexuality he CREATED and he can correct it, but people don't want it corrected."
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that God created people gay, but that it was somehow a mistake? I didn't know God made mistakes. Then He has to somehow go back and correct His mistakes? I'm not quite comfortable with this theology. This God of yours doesn't seem to be either omniscient or omnipotent.
@TheStrong32 You have the free will to choose what you are going to be. It's not a comfortable choice for everyone, but the day of calvary wasn't comfortable for him either. Your position is overtly disrepectful and willful. be who you want to be, but don't turn a truth into a lie to support your agenda
@snappa52 "scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support [an] agenda. you have no substance in what you say. all of your comments are emotional with no support from the scripture. zero support, NONE."
Your words are true. But I am saying them back to you, because they apply to YOU.
@TheStrong32 your rhetoric is agenda driven, not truth driven. Mosaic law's penalty for homosexuality was death. Jesus is a Jew and he affirmed that law on many occasions, you are twisting the Bible to suit your lifestyle.
@snappa52 "i'm projecting the sexual agenda thing because it is the basis for your theology. you dont base your life on the scripture, you base your life on being homosexual"
That's a pretty sweeping statement, considering you don't even know me. Being gay is only one aspect of who I am, like having brown hair or being right-handed. I don't base my life on being gay, and I certainly don't base my theology on it. Scripture teaches me to love God and to love my neighbor as my self.
@TheStrong32 You don't have to be a soothsayer to see your agenda oozing through your comments.You want to change the Bible instead of allowing it to change you. Homosexual Christians see themselves as set apart from the rest of us because they rewrite the rules instead of bearing their personal burden. we all have a burden, but we are not allowed to rewirte the law to suit our nature so that we can partake in that burden. There is no proof that being gay is nothing more than a choice.
@snappa52 Well, once again you are doing nothing more than saying that YOUR interpretation of Scripture is the only valid one. The Bible doesn't apply to me in any different way than to anyone else. God's word is eternal and He never changes. It is people who use the Bible to support their own hatreds and prejudices. In the 60s it was about race, in the 70s it was about misogyny, now its about homophobia. Only the hatreds change. Tit for a tat: there is no proof being gay is a choice.
@TheStrong32 You assert that you did not have a choice in being gay, but there is not one bit of evidence that proves it is not a choice, but if you have it provide it already. If I were to act on my own urges to sin, I would not have the audacity to justify my actions through the Bible. Yet, here we are with the new protected class of people who think that they are better than the rest of Christianity who is called to repent.
@snappa52 "You assert that you did not have a choice in being gay, but there is not one bit of evidence that proves it is not a choice. "
First of all, there is very interesting scientific evidence that homosexuality is the result of prenatal hormones, so this is more than "not a shred of evidence." There are lots of studies on epigenetics, X chromosomoes, brain structure, etc. Secondly, there is no scientifically-verifiable evidence that it IS a choice (you have nothing more than opinions).
@TheStrong32 I have studies that show plastics and other modern products have hormone mimickers that make men feminine and lower their sperm count. The study you're citing is highly debateable and contested. Everything is a choice, you choose to repress your urges, you choose to act on them.
@snappa52 "The study you're citing is highly debateable and contested."
I actually cited a number of studies. Which one is "highly debateable and contested"? Do you even KNOW any of these actual studies, or are you doing what homophobes do best: simply dismiss scientific evidence out of hand without even considering it?
@snappa52 "Everything is a choice, you choose to repress your urges, you choose to act on them."
That might be a good argument for ceilibacy, but it is not an argument against homosexuality. Of course you can "repress your urges", but you cannot change your sexual orientation. If one is straigt, the urges to be repressed are of opposite-sex objects; if one is gay, the urges to be repressed are of same-sex objects. You have choice over your actions, not over your orientation.
@snappa52 "If I were to act on my own urges to sin, I would not have the audacity to justify my actions through the Bible."
I agree with this. Just becasue I am gay does not mean I am free to act on my urges. I have the exact same moral obligations as everyone else. And--homophobic propoganda to the contrary--homosexuality per-se has no bearing whatsoever on an individual's moral compass. Many straights are immoral, many gays are moral. There is no provable corelation with sexual orientation.
@TheStrong32 the act of being homosexual may be culturally acceptable, but if you consider yourself a Christian the act of being a homosexual is not moral, along with the other sins. There are no gay or straight sins like you suggested earlier, they are sins for everyone.
@snappa52 "There are no gay or straight sins like you suggested earlier, they are sins for everyone."
I have never proposed that there is such a thing as a "straight sin" as opposed to a "gay sin"--you may have inferred that, but let me clarify that that is not my position. Sin is sin, and the Scriptures apply equally to everyone. A sraight man is no more entitled to commit adultery than a gay man is. A gay man is no more etitled to hate his neighbor than a straight man.
@TheStrong32 most don't hate gay people. the issue is the corruption of the plain sense of the bible. the moral code is clear that homosexuality is a sin along with the other sexual sins. If someone is working through their vice, i dont hold anything against them. If they are dividing the church and corrupting the bible to suit their sexual preferences, I have to speak out because a lie unchallenged stands as truth
snappa52 - "oh by the way, ..." - 'kid' would be up to me and him to decide in person. It is my experience in the LGBT community that men of his age do not resent being called kid or kiddo in a familiar social setting by someone of my age. Surprise.. now you DO know something about gay people..
he's an adult. lets get back to the scripture, and away from your emotional rhetoric. show me scritptural documentation that says that your lifestyle is not sin. and for everyone else out there that may be reading this i recognize all other sin too. i want guapobear to put his emotion aside for a moment and prove why 1 sin is acceptable while the rest are not.
snappa52 - "broad and sweeping".. We're talking apologetics here.. You made the thesis.. Prove yours.. Definition - Lifestyle: a belittling term assigned by intolerant heterosexuals toward the lives of GLBT persons. IN A SENTENCE: It is not a lifestyle; it is a life.
we all live a life, each of us has a "lifestyle" by the way we live that life. and now i see that you can't support what you proclaim. i'm not mad at you guapobear. my point is that if this acceptance of homosexuality through the whole christian community is accepted then we go down a slippery slope. there is no distinction between sin. when one is made acceptable then how can we make the rest unacceptable? who then is accountable? this is a "do as you will" mentality
snappa52 - "this is a "do as you will" mentality" - What you're working for is called dominionism. That is your goal. Thank God there are still free thinkers in this world.. This acceptance of sin, do you mean like pollution, or war, or theivery, or murder, or backbiting?? Where are your posts on that?? Scapegoating.. So fascististic..
actually "do as you will" ushers in the dominion of the evil one. it is his credo. God says, "Do what I say" not "Do as you will". i would presume neither of us do any of those other sins. but they are equal in nature to every other sin except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is not forgiven. I dont think homosexuality is worse than the rest of the sins, my objection is the acceptance of it through scriptural support, because there is none. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the worst sin.
i'm not talking about the nature of your sin, my sin is not in any way more acceptable than yours. my distinction is about the scripture and the church, and what is accepted as sin. when a nation disobeys God they come under judgement, so thats you and I both. when we dont admonish each other when it comes to the correct rendering of the Gospel then we all fail. when i introduce something that is incorrect i hope someone shoots a Bible verse at me like a BB.
Are you saying that when the goat was led out into the wilderness on the day of atonement, it was a fascist act? (i know you dont, but this is not how you exchange ideas) i'm not a fascist guapobear. i dont think you are the devil either. we disagree, thats all, so lets try to focus on the facts without the drama and intrigue.
Snappa52- "Are you saying..." What I am saying is that you are a hypocrite. You claim that you are concerned about sin, but the only "sin" you've posted a vid regarding is homosexuality (possibly commited by 10% of the population). Heterosexual fornication and divorce are much more prominent, yet you haven't posted a word regarding that.. ergo.. YOU ARE FOUND WANTING.. JUST KEEPING IT EASY FOR THE KIDDIES TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE..
The heterosexuals do not advocate these sins into acceptance through the Christian faith. i've never heard of anyone standing on the pulpit extolling the virtues of fornication and divorce. have you?
how do you glean that i am defacto endorsing any sin? lost me there chief. i said that heterosexuals dont advocate on behalf of fornication and divorce. they are accepted as wrong and no one will get on the pulpit to say otherwise. this is not preached in any church that i know of. why is homosexuality different than the rest? because you say so?
@snappa52 "heterosexuals dont advocate on behalf of fornication and divorce. they are accepted as wrong and no one will get on the pulpit to say otherwise. this is not preached in any church that i know of. why is homosexuality different than the rest? "
Because, despite the lies, homosexuality does not hurt anyone the way fornication and divorce do. Fornication and divorce are straight sins. And they are MUCH more widespread than homosexuality is. Why are you so obsessed about the gays?
you can call me all of the nasty names you want boss. your arguement does not have any substance. i'm still waiting for you to provide some substance.
snapps52- "you can call" - As I mentioned to you, I will provide you with the name of the most complete text I have access to on the subject.. you can purchase it for yourself if your so all-fire interested in the truth.
snappa52 - "why don't..." I've gotta get the name of it from a friend.. I read most of it - really well written.. (I know better than to send one of the lightweight ones over.) I was hoping there's some paper published of opinion from Union Theological Seminary here in the city.
@guapobear I didnt post this video, and the video is concerning homosexuality. I'm saying that we are all the same and a numbered few don't get preferential treatment because they are willful in their sin and won't submit to the instruction of God through the prophets and writers of the Bible. When i screw up I ask for forgiveness, I don't rewrite the bible to suit the lifestyle I want to lead
@snappa52 Interesting thing about the Scapegoat. In the Bible, the scapegoat (la-aza'zeyl) meant, "for absolute removal" or "to be completely let go". But the Pharisees were not content with this, and decided that the scapegoat had to be killed. So in the Second Temple era, they would lead the scapegoat out of the ciy and, instead of letting it go as the Bible commanded, would push it off the cliff. Not much of a symbolf for forgiveness, is it?
@TheStrong32 The Pharisees were under Mosaic law, we are not because we are not Jewish. Jesus was a Jew and had to abide to Mosaic law. He not only abided by it, he affirmed it to his disciples. For you to use the scapegoat as an example is another straw man, because it is not applicable to you or I. We have the moral commandments that have been in effect from Moses until now, Jesus' sacrifice replaced the functions of the Temple.
@TheStrong32 lifestyle=the type of life you live. everyone has one, are you going to build a diatribe of faux anger because I've used a commonly understood term?
@snappa52 "abosolutely no substance to what you are saying. you are a bombastic person with no regard to the gospel or its integrity. the only proof that you give is emotion and the idea that you are entitled to cross out passages and pages that dont suit your sexual agenda."
I'm not quite sure whether you are talking here to gays or to the homophobes. It certainly fits the homophobes.
@snappa52 "2000 years of church "arbiters" agree with my theology."
I hope you're not Protestant (or Mormon). Protestantism was all about throwing out tradition. The concept of "Sola Scriptura" was invented by Martin Luther--and even he said "Scripture and *reason*" Protestants have no right to appeal to tradition.
Mormonism is also all about tossing out the whole of Christian tradition from the time of the apsostles until 1840s. So theye have no appeal to 2000 years of church "arbiters"
@TheStrong32 There is not one word that condones same sex relations or marriage within the Bible. You have to wrench a completely new meaning out of the bible, totally devoid of the intent. You have to make theology up, which is what you are doing. You have no support for your position, at all. But you do a fine job with the straw man, because I've never mentioned the 2000 years of church arbiters
@snappa52 "There is not one word that condones same sex relations or marriage within the Bible."
By the same token, there is nothing within the Bible that condemns it. It is in fact the homophobes who are wrenching completely new meanings out of the Bible when they take their verses out of context and refuse to consider the meaning of the original languages in order to come up with their homophobic interpretation.
@TheStrong32 same sex relations garner a death sentence. Its part of Mosaic law which Jesus upheld. The moral laws of the OT stil hold. This is a blatant lie on your part
The premise of this thread/video is that thesse guys ganged up on this gay christian who is/was a Southern Baptist kid. A total blindside... A verbal attack of the most belittling types... BTW, if you really know the bible, you will see that most everything they say about the bible is absolutely incorrect beyond regurgitation of text. ABSOLUTELY LAME THEOLOGY - "NON-DNOMINATIONAL" = "Everybody is going to hell but me.".. STUPIDS...
you assume way too much, and i've never said that everyone is going to hell but me. if i dont repent of my sins daily i dont receive any blessing. but you seem to think that because a homosexual lifestyle is what you want, you can have it contrary to what the bible says. i'm accountable for every single sin i commit, and so are you. i'm saying we have the same standard to live up to. what do you think about that?
@TheStrong32 a homosexual separates themselves from the rest of Christianity because they won't accept the instruction of the Bible. You think your sin is okay and there is another set of sins that only apply to straight people, you've said as much. You and I are no different when it comes to the sins we commit. The only difference is that I know the sins I commit are wrong, you justify the sins you commit because you think you are a different. I say that we are the same under Biblical law
well, since you want to go by the book of leviticus, lets see 1. if your wife(i'm sure you're married)is having her period, you are forbidden to touch,sleep with, even eat with her, she's unclean. so i imagine you take her to the mikveh to purify her. 2. can't eat shellfish and pork. and definately no cheeseburgers or meat served with dairy. wait- that would make you an orthodox jew. isn't that paradoxical with christianity.
oaklynlen, Jesus was speaking to Jews. He only spoke to Gentiles on very few occasions. The moral portions of the Tanakh are binding on the Gentile believers, the ten commandments and the law of noah sum up the law and the prophets, but they do not abolish it. these laws were never binding on me because i'm not a Jew. but understand, the moral standard set forth by the Tanakh can't be contradicted by our actions. Peter's vision let us know what God thought about Gentile cuisine.
@snappa52 "Peter's vision let us know what God thought about Gentile cuisine."
Actually, Peter's vision let us know what God though about Genties. The food was only a symbol. The whole point of the vision was to prepare him for the ministry to the Gentiles. It was the people--not their food--that God was telling Peter not to call common or unclean.
and dont forget that Jesus confirmed that Mosaic law you hate so much. are we reading the same New Testament or are you skipping over the parts contrary to your lifestyle?
oaklynlen, does Matthew 5:17-20 make Jesus and orthodox Jew too? actually you dont have an absolute understanding of orthodox judaism. 75% of the laws that say "forever" are unable to be accomplished because there is no temple. so they had to figure out how to practice their faith without a temple, therefore they started to lean more and more on the traditions of the elders which is the Talmud. Jesus decried many traditions, but not all of them. His stance is that the law is above any tradition
i'll say this once more- the book of leviticus was given by god only for jews. the story of S&G wasn't about gay lust, read rashi a jewish scribe who was born before jesus, it was about people who were cruel and inhospitable to strangers. and as for romans- paul was dealing with a rome whose idolaters dealt with temple prostitutes. stop hiding behind a cross to promote hate. after all what would jesus do?
ok so question. You're saying all sin is equal. You also say that you cannot practice a homosexual lifestyle and be a "christian". If all sin is equal what about the straight man who watches porn? Isn't that a sin? So yeah you can't watch porn and be a christian by your own argument. Sorry you're attempt to stop homosexuality doesn't really float.
I think the Christian and the right thing to do would be to love and respect everybody, no matter what their personal lifestyle is. That's what Jesus would do. Why would people even be so intolerant over another person's choices, especially when those choices have no effect on your life? God is infinite love and wisdom, and that spreads over everyone gay or not.
Did these people read actually read the Bible? Do they know what Jesus said about homosexuality? No? That's because he DIDN'T say anything on the subject!
This is a load of crap. These people claim not to be hateful or Prejudiced and then they turn around and say nasty things disguised in "nice guy" language for them to eat it all up. Digusting.
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
god destroyed sodom for its pride and selfishness... that sounds alot like America today... not just the homosexual community
God is the same yesterday, today and always....Thats not a contradiction, He never said that this wasnt an abomination anywhere in the bible. The Old Testament is still God inspired and should lead us in a christian lifestyle along with the New Test.
God still loves the person, but hates the sin or abomination........but in order to be saved you have to turn from your sins and ask for forgiviness(honestly, not with intent of doing them again) and ask him into your heart.
Its not that church's are against gay people, But to accept the lord into your heart for salvation, you must turn from your sins at that time. Thats not saying that you will not backslide into them, but we all will do that. But God destroyed Sodemn and Gamora for man lying with man and woman with woman.....so it is a sin according to my KJV bible.
Please stop comparing RAPE to my love for my significant other. And on another note: The rape in Sodom occurred AFTER God had already decided to destroy the cities. Your KJV Bible does NOT say Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality. You are misreading it.
right up there with rape your wife, and beat your slave, and don't eat shrimp.. idiot.. read the whole books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.. The only message that is clear is this: THINGS CHANGE... Get real..
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them."
Things havent changed in the dishonest manner you portray them. The moral law of the Tanakh still holds for all people calling themselves Christian because not everything the Messiah is tasked with is finished. The only thing that has changed is the temple, it is not in Jerusalem anymore it is you, you are the temple. sin defiles the temple god gave you
(I was even subjected by a pseudo 'date' rape by a minister when I was lured into his apartment only to realize that I wasn't even aware that I was on a 'date'!)
And all this happened in the evangelical/ charismatic variety of gay churches I have attended, while those liberal varieties without such carnal sins practice buffet Christianity and/ or apostasy: To be continued.
The carnality within these churches has really made me question if one could be a gay person and God-fearing Christian. Pastors who would go out on dates with newcomers to the church with catastrophic consequences, church leaderships that turn a closed eye to and get defensive about sexual addictions among members of church and condone malicious gossiping in the congregation, disguised or blatant racism and the general lack of accountability. To be continued.
After twenty years of the life as a gay Christian, I have serious doubts about the authenticity of the gay Christian movement. So many things I have witnessed in the course of years at various gay/ gay-affirming churches were so far removed from what Bible teaches us as the fruits of the Spirit. To be continued.
i think some have a warped view of gay people...the main man made a statement about people who practice homosexuality....what?>...i dont practice being gay...i am gay.....do people practice being straight?????? just something to think about. also since i have come out of the "closet", i have led a more positive lifestyle.
The Bible DOES condem homosexuality, even in the original languages. Dr. Brown is an expert in Greek/Hebrew. He knows what he is talking about. Believe God, and be delivered from all sins.
There are plenty of other experts and biblical scholars who disagree with Dr. Brown. Your statement should accurately be read as "Believe in God (a.k.a. Dr. Brown) and God (a.k.a. Dr. Brown) will deliver from all sins.
A lot of people think that simply believing in God and asking for forgiveness is all you need, when the Bible says you must repent, which is a turning from sin, and to trust Jesus to save you from the wrath to come. The Bible says once you do that, God will transform you from the inside out, and you'll become a new person with new desires; being born again. I think it's best to let God handle homosexuality in the individual person.
@RoseJamison During the conference Dr. Brown read from a defective translation which disingenuously inserted the word "homosexual" into the text of 1 Corinthians 6. The word "homosexual" did not exist in the first century AD. The Greek word is arsenokoitēs, a unique word which is only found in this one instance. Scholars have argued for centuries over what exactly it means. It could refer to pederasty, prostitution, male rape, or any number of other things.
I think there is a great tendency in our society to lower the standard that Jesus set. The first requirement to being saved is an honest repentance and turning away from our sins, no matter what they may be. This goes for all sin, including sexual sin. This requirement is mandatory and cannot be changed. It transcends time and culture. Even though our society may not like this high standard, the standard that God set remains firm. It is non-negotiable.
Standingearth 3 weeks ago
As a straight Christian, I am ashamed of how many other Christians and churches turn their backs on gay people. As well, I am also ashamed of the churches out there that allow their members to practice a homosexual lifestyle. Being homosexual is a sin, it says so in the Bible. But all sin's are equal in the sight of God. So as Christians, we don't have the right to judge them. We should accept all people for who they are and love them so much that we don't want them to stay that way.
elphalindagirl 7 months ago
@elphalindagirl Being gay is not a sin, no wonder people don't want anything to do with you and the churches.
smurfboywv 4 months ago in playlist More videos from matthillnc
here is "room to question that" canyonwalkerconnections (dot) com . Thank you
canyonwlkr 11 months ago
@TheStrong32 every single one I've met has those issues (typically more than one) and yes, many people who are not gay have the same issues in their past... and they have other manifestations they struggle with such as eating disorders, phobias, anxiety, insomnia, sexual dysfunction, and on and on and on... and those are their sins to hand over to God. Flip side, show me one who doesn't because I haven't found one yet. And as for lifestyle; my own life is proof as well as that of others.
gezmom 1 year ago
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@gezmom "every single one I've met has those issues (typically more than one) and yes, many people who are not gay have the same issues in their past... and they have other manifestations they struggle with such as eating disorders, phobias, anxiety, insomnia, sexual dysfunction, and on and on and on... "
None of ANY of this has anything at all to do with sexual orientation. You are describing the human condition. It is all completely irrelevant to your argument.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@gezmom You still have not described to me what the so-called "gay lifestyle" is. I know lots of gays who have none of the problems you specified (well, maybe occasional insomnia--but everyone has that). And I know lots of evangelical Christians who do. What is this "lifestyle" you keep talking about?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 btw, I've also met obese people who are hell-bent to make others accept them... doesn't make it healthy. I've met scores of others who justify their sin with any number of "valid reasons and logic"... doesn't make it right or biblical. As one who has seen both sides of the coin; it's not judgment, it's personal experience; it's not interpretation, it's in black and white. if someone wants to stay that way, fine; however, I have tasted a freedom that is not mine to withhold.
gezmom 1 year ago
@gezmom "As one who has seen both sides of the coin; it's not judgment, it's personal experience"
This is the error a number of so-called "ex-gays" fall into. They are taught to focus only on their negative experiences and then universalize them, so that they falsly attribute all the negatives to their homosexuality, and then try to claim that ALL homosexuals have the same negative experiences. It is simply not true.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
God wants wholeness and fulfillment for all His creation. We all struggle with sin and we have to lay our own selfishness down daily. He never says one will go to hell for their sexuality; one's fate is sealed only by their choice to accept or deny Christ as Savior. However, once one accepts, one is then obligated to the process of sanctification, allowing God to reveal and remove all our sins. Time to put agendas aside and focus solely on growing towards who He means for us to be.
gezmom 1 year ago
@gezmom "He never says one will go to hell for their sexuality; one's fate is sealed only by their choice to accept or deny Christ as Savior."
Wow! You've just made my point. Thank you!
TheStrong32 1 year ago
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@gezmom "However, once one accepts, one is then obligated to the process of sanctification, allowing God to reveal and remove all our sins. Time to put agendas aside and focus solely on growing towards who He means for us to be."
I agree with this completely. Time to put agendas aside, focus on growing towards Christ and His will for us. Stop judging and condemning others. Show love in the name of Christ instead of hate. Amen.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 the intent is not hate, the intent is to bring everyone together under the same authority. it is not a little thing when someone twists the bible to suit their sexual preference. if someone does not act on their urges and sees them as sin and repents, there is nothing anyone can say against them and they should be greeted as brothers and sisters.
snappa52 1 year ago
@gezmom "God wants wholeness and fulfillment for all His creation. We all struggle with sin and we have to lay our own selfishness down daily."
This is absolutely true, but it does nothing to advance the anti-gay agenda. A gay Christian believes this also. God created us with our particular sexual orientation, and we believe He wants us to experience wholenss and fulfillment the way He made us. Why should we try to distort what He has wrought?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32" "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." You don't use reason when reading the scriptures, you cherry pick. I take it all as truth because if the Bible is false everything falls on its face. I don't presume to rewrite it for my own justification
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 You quoted one of my favorite verses from scripture--Mat. 19:12 Though I note that you actually changed the text: He didn't say "have renounced marriage"; He said "have made themselves eunuchs." I hate peraphrases; they show no respect for the Word of God. Your paraphrase is an indication that you too pick and choose from scripture. Everybody does--even you--whether they are aware of it or not. The question is, which verses are you concentrating on. Then the question becomes "Why?"
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 he is talking about marriage and the disciples said in reply it would be better not to marry than to do what he commanded. And he was talking about marriage between a husband and a wife, which would further convict your ideas but I didnt want to throw salt on a sore wound. My paraphrasing did not change the intent of the text, your paraphrasing to justify homosexuality does
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "And he was talking about marriage between a husband and a wife, which would further convict your ideas."
I have no problem with straight people gettting married. Why would that "further convict" my ideas (unless maybe you mean, make me further convicted of the correctness of my ideas)?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 You are convicted by the incorrectness of your ideas because you can only offer smug comments. This proves that you are making this up as you go
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 Matthe 19:12 is the foundation for monasticism. What is your view on monasticism? Is it truly Biblical?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 if it's not anti-Biblical monasticism is fine. Do you have evidence that it is anti-Biblical? The Irish monks who copied dutifully saved the great texts from the Anglos and the Saxons.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 I have no problem at all with monasticism. It's just that so many Protestant claim "Sola Scriptura" and then denounce monasticism, when both Jesus and Paul praised a life of celibacy (when one is called to it).
PS: I believe it's the "Angles" and the Saxons.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 No, it's Anglo's. the Angles stayed in Germany, the one's who invaded England became Anglos.
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "No, it's Anglo's. the Angles stayed in Germany, the one's who invaded England became Anglos."
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! Oh Lord! My friend, I suggest a visit to your local neighborhood encyclopedia. Such as the fllowing from Wikipedia: "Angles were one of the main groups that settled in Britain in the post-Roman period, founding several of the kingdoms of Anglo-Saxon England, and their name is the root of the name 'England'."
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 wikipedia is not known to be reliable. Angles who left Germany became Anglo's. That is where the title Anglo-Saxon came from. The English refer to their sphere of influence as their "Anglosphere". Once they were established in England Anglo became the term of preference, both refer to the same thing. My term is the widely used term, you've chosen the old term
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "No, it's Anglo's. the Angles stayed in Germany, the one's who invaded England became Anglos."
This is really telling of the level of research that goes into your opinions.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
So far, without exception, every GLBT I have met and got to know has at least one of the following in their background:
- A same-sex parent/parental figure who was impossible to please
- An abusive opposite sex parent/parental figure
- Sexual assault/rape/abuse
- A dysfunctional family dynamic where dad was passive or gone and mom had to take headship
These all plant the seeds for gender/sexuality identity issues. Even if it's all you've ever known, it doesn't mean it's from God.
gezmom 1 year ago
@gezmom Everyone of the elements you describe are in the backgrounds of some people too. Why aren't they gay? Thee is no evidence of *causation* in any of these factors. Lots of gay people have none of these factors. How do you explain that?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
Sorry, obviously, I meant to say, "Everyone of the elements you describe are in the backgrounds of some straight people too."
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@gezmom If you count the number of straight people who grew up in dysfunctional families, you would see that they produce a hell of a lot more straight kids than they do gay. The presence of dysfunction in the backgrounds of some gay people is no indication of causation; it's an indication of how many dysfunctional families there are in America. A distant father and protective mother may not create a gay son; a gay son may create a distant father and a protective mother. Ever think about that?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@gezmom Regarding "Sexual assault/rape/abuse" as a cause of homosexuality: First of all, there are probably few homosexuals who have that in their backgrond. I don't know any myself. Second of all, where it does exist it may be more of a matter of victimology. A child molester may be aware that he will have more success (and that the child will be less likely to tell) if he tries to groom a child who is gay.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 Gnosticism is extra-biblical anyway; again, take the bible all the way or not at all; nothing more, nothing less. God spits out the luke warm. Christianity is not a pick-and-choose buffet of ideals. Furthermore, GLBT is a lifestyle, it's a choice, and no one's born that way. I know this because God delivered me and several others. I'm not some ignorant, raised in the choir, daddy-was-the-preacher moron; give your pointing finger a rest.
gezmom 1 year ago
@gezmom "GLBT is a lifestyle, it's a choice, and no one's born that way."
Prove it.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
gays want to have their sin and eat it to...I had to give up alot of things / sin and submit my life to Christ and theres no way around that...PERIOD ! ! !
caucazhin 1 year ago
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@caucazhin "gays want to have their sin and eat it to...I had to give up alot of things / sin and submit my life to Christ and theres no way around that...PERIOD ! ! !"
No, actually, they don't. At least gay Christians don't. Gay Christians realize that they have to examine their consciences and repent of their sins just like everyone else. You know, some gay Christians are celibate. That doesn't change the fact that they're gay. Do you think they're going to hell?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 if people dont act on their urges and pray for forgiveness they will be forgiven. If a person acts on their urges and uses the bible to justify themselves it is an obvious abomination
snappa52 1 year ago
Just because Steven (the second speaker who is gay) was a complete whore in his life, and drug dealer, does not mean all gays are that way. He had 100's of partners. I've had one. He assumes all gays are whores like him ane we're not. I'm glad he found God, but it doesnt mean everyone is like him.
pvampire 3 years ago 3
@pvampire Amen.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 That is an excellent point you bring up that I really didnt ever consider. Leave it to the fundies to make a business preying off of other peoples "percieved sin" believeing they can administer healing to a gay as though they had a disease! Jesus dealt pretty harshly with those types....:)
pvampire 1 year ago
@pvampire "Steven (the second speaker who is gay) ... assumes all gays are whores like him ane we're not."
This is so true of a lot of "ex-gays." They get involved in some negative things and then try to universalize their individual experience and, worst of all, attempt to relate some *behavior* to a particular *sexual orientation*, as though the two are somehow related.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
THe opening speaker says there is great misunderstanding on this subject. No theres not...You guys are haters who are using scripture to patranize gays and politly condemn them to hell...make no mistake, your message of hate is broadcast loud and clear! Wait till YOU face the judgment you are meeting out here...
pvampire 3 years ago
Who said you're going to hell? You believe or you don't; that's the heaven or hell issue. Then, if you believe, whatever sin is in your life should become the next issue; that applies to all believers. And by the way, I've met way more GLBT than Christians that are the judgmental ones. I've never hated anyone for their lifestyle. I know your pain; it's a shame your so filled with bitterness that your quick to bite a hand of kindness.
gezmom 3 years ago
I believe there is a reason for many to feel like they've been hated. There is a reason for bitterness. Very little comes out of the conservative Christianity in the way of "kindness" (pointing out the sin does not equate love).
melissabrianne 2 years ago
Hate is a choice; holding onto offense is a choice. Holding the whole accountable for the mistakes of the few is a choice and lends one more toward hatred. As I said before, the main issue should be belief vs. unbelief. God is all or nothing; He's not into this New age idea of open relationship between you and Him; He wants your whole heart. You can't judge God based on fallible people. You'd find a lot more love if you'd quit looking for hate.
gezmom 2 years ago
And furthermore, if it's done in love, pointing out sin is indeed loving. It's a sin to steal; does my two year old know that? If I don't hold him accountable then I don't demonstrate love. Depends on how it's done. You can't serve two masters; you're either for God and have a heart to be all His or you want to be part of a temporary and deprave world that, when all is said and done, will leave you empty. The gamble of living for God is WAY less risky than the gamble of living against Him.
gezmom 2 years ago
@gezmom "you're either for God and have a heart to be all His or you want to be part of a temporary and deprave world"
Sinfulness and depravity have nothing to do with sexual orientation. One can be straight and be sinful and depraved. One can be gay and still love God and be obedient to His Word. Sexual orientation is not a choice. Remember, yours is not the only interpretation out there. You have no objective criteria that guarantees your interpretation of the Bible is the only correct one.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@gezmom "Hate is a choice" I fully agree. So why do so many Christians choose to hate? (I speak as a Christian). So many times we have shown hatred: to Jews, to those we consider "heretics", to the enslaved, to women. The Gospel of love is not "New Age"--that's something entirely different, it's modern Gnosticism--the Gospel of love is the one Jesus taught. He didn't hate, exclude, shun, discriminate and seek to deny the rights of anyone. Gay Christians don't "judge God", they love God.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@gezmom "I've met way more GLBT than Christians that are the judgmental ones."
Maybe you haven't noticed, because you identify with the Christians, while the GLBT people are the "others."
"I've never hated anyone for their lifestyle."By the mere use of the word "lifestyle" you are showing your prejudice. What exactly is this "gay lifestyle"? There's no such thing. Every LGBT person is a unique individual, living their own life. Attempting to lump everyone together is just stereotyping.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@pvampire They're also not telling the truth about the "ex-gay" industry. Lots of people have jumped on the bandwagon because they know there's money to be made. First they manufacture fear and prejudice and then they swoop in to prey on frightened parents and their hapless children, who will pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their "ministry." Talk about money-changing in the Temple!
TheStrong32 1 year ago
word of advice dont take advice from a book that says its an abomanation to eat shrimp
yahyahtoopy 3 years ago
No, he said it wasn't kosher.
Maybe people were eating them out of dirty rivers?
Shrimp kinda eat nasty things anyway. It makes sense.
TazHall 3 years ago
bull crap you can eat most shrimp raw
yahyahtoopy 3 years ago
Because it's properly cleaned and we are under a new covenant now, anyway. Quite simple.
TazHall 3 years ago
lol shut up
yahyahtoopy 3 years ago
Quite mature. You must have run out of ideas.
TazHall 3 years ago
no i just dont want to talk to you anymore
it says its an abomination i have a bible on my lap rite now
Leviticus 11:12
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
yahyahtoopy 3 years ago
@TazHall "No, he said it wasn't kosher." No, he said it was an "abomination" (Leviticus 11:10-12). The kosher laws told the Jews what was clean and unclean (anything in the waters with fins and scales was clean, anything that didn't was unclean). Eating that which is unclean was an abomination.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
snappa - There is a saying in German "Die ton macht die musik." -- The way you say things tells what you mean.. I said what I said.. That is my impression of you.. I am 50 years old.. I have met plenty of people who said they were "non-denominational" - always to the same end.. hence, i do not care to discuss further.. I asked you a question about security of the believer and you skirted the issue... ERGO, all that indicates to me is that you have LAME THEOLOGY, without one thought of your own.
guapobear 3 years ago
i didnt skirt the issue, i gave you an answer that you didnt like. baptism does not assure you salvation if you dont repent of your sins. ergo, you are held just as accountable as i am. you dont get a pass on Jesus' commandments because you prefer homosexual relationships. peace.
snappa52 3 years ago
And, again, YOU are not the arbiter of interpretation for the document known as the bible. Perhaps a career in auto sales would be just the ticket... as you persistently run your mouth on the same broken record and don't understand the words, "I don't believe YOU, and never will."
guapobear 3 years ago
you're right, i'm not the arbiter. and 2000 years of church "arbiters" agree with my theology. i'm not here to convert anyone to my way of thinking. but when someone blatantly lies, guapobear, it has to be refuted. an unrefuted lie stands as truth.
snappa52 3 years ago
Hi there.. Let's see.. 10% Homosexuals.. vs. 90% Heterosexuals??? You are in the WRONG market segment.. If you are a big enough fool to think you are "winning" people for Jesus here, you are as dumb as GWB looks.. GET A LIFE OR AT LEAST A JOB THAT WILL KEEP YOU OFF THE COMPUTER..
guapobear 3 years ago
abosolutely no substance to what you are saying. you are a bombastic person with no regard to the gospel or its integrity. the only proof that you give is emotion and the idea that you are entitled to cross out passages and pages that dont suit your sexual agenda. i invite you to stay on the computer so you can learn something about the faith you pretend to follow. its absurd that your sexual preference supercedes 2000+ years of scripture.
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - absolutely no -- And some Catholics still think the Pope (the former Cardinal Ratzinger) is infallible. BTW, you're really projecting about the sexual agenda thing.. Freud? .. What is absurd is that your "non-denominational" theology is supposed to trump 2000 years of Christianity in the case of scripture and history (of which God actively played a part).. BTW, YOU WERE RUDE TO THAT KID.. 2 minutes and "keep your remarks brief"...
guapobear 3 years ago
because he was not scheduled! he got to speak for a long time too. is he the only one in the audience that had the right to speak? do you think that they had that venue for an unlimited time?
my theology is compatible with scripture. when the scripture says something i accept it as truth, you do not. you try and twist innocent verses to suit your sexual orientation while completely ignoring the rest. we are all bound to the commandments of the scripture and its moral authority, you included
snappa52 3 years ago
@snappa52 "my theology is compatible with scripture. when the scripture says something i accept it as truth," Your problem is that you confuse your INTERPRETATION with THE truth. Gay-affirming theology is compatible with scripture also; it's just a different interpretation.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 To say that Gay affirming theology is a different interpretation, you are completely wrong. It is a falshood. There has never been affirmation of homosexuality and the Mosaic law that Jesus followed as a Jew confirms this. Jesus defined marriage as a union between a man and woman. He said (paraphrasing), "In the beginning God brought man and woman together, and what God brings together let no one separate."
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "To say that Gay affirming theology is a different interpretation, you are completely wrong. It is a falshood."
You are still extolling nothing more than your interpretation. Differing interpetation has been the source of countless wars and violence between Christians. But Jesus said, "By this shall all men know ye are my disciples: how you love one another."
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@snappa52 "In the beginning God brought man and woman together, and what God brings together let no one separate." No gay-affirming Christian has any problem with this verse. Some interpret it as excluding same-sex marriage, some interpret it only as affirming the norm (without excluding diversity) . Scripture also says, "male and female made He them." But what about hermaphrodites? Does this verse mean hermaphrodites are not made by God? Maybe God is more creative than we give Him credit for.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
i'm projecting the sexual agenda thing because it is the basis for your theology. you dont base your life on the scripture, you base your life on being homosexual, and you inflect that back into the scripture to justify it instead of vice versa. the scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support a homosexual agenda. you have no substance in what you say. all of your comments are emotional with no support from the scripture. zero support, NONE.
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "..because it is the basis for your theology.." - a broad sweeping claim with no substance.. lame.. We are back to the level of the world being flat.. and that's about where you are intellectually.. I'm sure if one started to dig, there are many other subjects besides sexual roles in which you can display your close-minded submission to "what somebody told you"... I'm glad to say that when I looked for a friend, I found Jesus..
guapobear 3 years ago
the bible never said that the world was flat, that was doctrine. Jesus loves us all when we love Him. and the criteria for loving Him is following His commandments. He doesnt expect us to follow them perfectly. but when we fail he expects us to repent and CHANGE from sin.
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "the bible never" - I certainly agree that the bible never said that the world was flat and "that was doctrine"... THE DOCTRINE WAS BASED UPON MISINTERPRETATION.. and exactly makes my point.. AND A WEALTH OF MAJOR THEOLOGIANS IN THE US AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AGREE on a much different interpretation of the scriptures regarding sexual roles from yours. Coming to Colombia or Harvard for a debate? Sorry, but we don't do religion at Juilliard.
guapobear 3 years ago
I would go to Harvard if i wanted to debate a muslim. I would go to Columbia if i wanted to debate a Jesuit.
I'm asking you, and all of your 50 years of experience to cite for me verses that support your position. can you do this or are you limited to name dropping?
snappa52 3 years ago
God doesnt want us to knowingly sin because we know we can repent....and another thing, God said he is the same Yesterday, today and tomorow (from a respnse you had to one of my comments earlier) He in no part of the bible condones homosexuality and fornication(called both an abomination). I will not call you an idiot like you did me, I just believe the whole word of God. Not parts that I can twist to fit my lifestyle. God Bless!!!!
jayjaydry 3 years ago
this came up as a reply to me on the notification. have i called you an idiot or supported any of the things that you say are antibiblical? i didnt say any of that
snappa52 3 years ago
broad and sweeping? provide for me scritural verses that support your lifestyle of same sex relationships.
snappa52 3 years ago
"the scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support a homosexual agenda."
I agree 100%. Homosexuality is nothing new. They were dealing with it in the early church just the same. God is greater than the sexuality he CREATED and he can correct it, but people don't want it corrected.
TazHall 3 years ago
@TazHall "God is greater than the sexuality he CREATED and he can correct it, but people don't want it corrected."
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that God created people gay, but that it was somehow a mistake? I didn't know God made mistakes. Then He has to somehow go back and correct His mistakes? I'm not quite comfortable with this theology. This God of yours doesn't seem to be either omniscient or omnipotent.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 You have the free will to choose what you are going to be. It's not a comfortable choice for everyone, but the day of calvary wasn't comfortable for him either. Your position is overtly disrepectful and willful. be who you want to be, but don't turn a truth into a lie to support your agenda
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "scripture should transform you, not you transforming the scripture to support [an] agenda. you have no substance in what you say. all of your comments are emotional with no support from the scripture. zero support, NONE."
Your words are true. But I am saying them back to you, because they apply to YOU.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 your rhetoric is agenda driven, not truth driven. Mosaic law's penalty for homosexuality was death. Jesus is a Jew and he affirmed that law on many occasions, you are twisting the Bible to suit your lifestyle.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "i'm projecting the sexual agenda thing because it is the basis for your theology. you dont base your life on the scripture, you base your life on being homosexual"
That's a pretty sweeping statement, considering you don't even know me. Being gay is only one aspect of who I am, like having brown hair or being right-handed. I don't base my life on being gay, and I certainly don't base my theology on it. Scripture teaches me to love God and to love my neighbor as my self.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 You don't have to be a soothsayer to see your agenda oozing through your comments.You want to change the Bible instead of allowing it to change you. Homosexual Christians see themselves as set apart from the rest of us because they rewrite the rules instead of bearing their personal burden. we all have a burden, but we are not allowed to rewirte the law to suit our nature so that we can partake in that burden. There is no proof that being gay is nothing more than a choice.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 Well, once again you are doing nothing more than saying that YOUR interpretation of Scripture is the only valid one. The Bible doesn't apply to me in any different way than to anyone else. God's word is eternal and He never changes. It is people who use the Bible to support their own hatreds and prejudices. In the 60s it was about race, in the 70s it was about misogyny, now its about homophobia. Only the hatreds change. Tit for a tat: there is no proof being gay is a choice.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 You assert that you did not have a choice in being gay, but there is not one bit of evidence that proves it is not a choice, but if you have it provide it already. If I were to act on my own urges to sin, I would not have the audacity to justify my actions through the Bible. Yet, here we are with the new protected class of people who think that they are better than the rest of Christianity who is called to repent.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "You assert that you did not have a choice in being gay, but there is not one bit of evidence that proves it is not a choice. "
First of all, there is very interesting scientific evidence that homosexuality is the result of prenatal hormones, so this is more than "not a shred of evidence." There are lots of studies on epigenetics, X chromosomoes, brain structure, etc. Secondly, there is no scientifically-verifiable evidence that it IS a choice (you have nothing more than opinions).
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 I have studies that show plastics and other modern products have hormone mimickers that make men feminine and lower their sperm count. The study you're citing is highly debateable and contested. Everything is a choice, you choose to repress your urges, you choose to act on them.
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "The study you're citing is highly debateable and contested."
I actually cited a number of studies. Which one is "highly debateable and contested"? Do you even KNOW any of these actual studies, or are you doing what homophobes do best: simply dismiss scientific evidence out of hand without even considering it?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 i've never seen you cite one of those studies by name, only by the content which covers a wide range of things. be specific
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "Everything is a choice, you choose to repress your urges, you choose to act on them."
That might be a good argument for ceilibacy, but it is not an argument against homosexuality. Of course you can "repress your urges", but you cannot change your sexual orientation. If one is straigt, the urges to be repressed are of opposite-sex objects; if one is gay, the urges to be repressed are of same-sex objects. You have choice over your actions, not over your orientation.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@snappa52 "If I were to act on my own urges to sin, I would not have the audacity to justify my actions through the Bible."
I agree with this. Just becasue I am gay does not mean I am free to act on my urges. I have the exact same moral obligations as everyone else. And--homophobic propoganda to the contrary--homosexuality per-se has no bearing whatsoever on an individual's moral compass. Many straights are immoral, many gays are moral. There is no provable corelation with sexual orientation.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 the act of being homosexual may be culturally acceptable, but if you consider yourself a Christian the act of being a homosexual is not moral, along with the other sins. There are no gay or straight sins like you suggested earlier, they are sins for everyone.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "There are no gay or straight sins like you suggested earlier, they are sins for everyone."
I have never proposed that there is such a thing as a "straight sin" as opposed to a "gay sin"--you may have inferred that, but let me clarify that that is not my position. Sin is sin, and the Scriptures apply equally to everyone. A sraight man is no more entitled to commit adultery than a gay man is. A gay man is no more etitled to hate his neighbor than a straight man.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 most don't hate gay people. the issue is the corruption of the plain sense of the bible. the moral code is clear that homosexuality is a sin along with the other sexual sins. If someone is working through their vice, i dont hold anything against them. If they are dividing the church and corrupting the bible to suit their sexual preferences, I have to speak out because a lie unchallenged stands as truth
snappa52 1 year ago
oh by the way, i'm over 1000 miles away from Charlotte North Carolina, so no, i was not rude to that man. he's not a kid he's an adult.
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "oh by the way, ..." - 'kid' would be up to me and him to decide in person. It is my experience in the LGBT community that men of his age do not resent being called kid or kiddo in a familiar social setting by someone of my age. Surprise.. now you DO know something about gay people..
guapobear 3 years ago
he's an adult. lets get back to the scripture, and away from your emotional rhetoric. show me scritptural documentation that says that your lifestyle is not sin. and for everyone else out there that may be reading this i recognize all other sin too. i want guapobear to put his emotion aside for a moment and prove why 1 sin is acceptable while the rest are not.
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "broad and sweeping".. We're talking apologetics here.. You made the thesis.. Prove yours.. Definition - Lifestyle: a belittling term assigned by intolerant heterosexuals toward the lives of GLBT persons. IN A SENTENCE: It is not a lifestyle; it is a life.
guapobear 3 years ago
we all live a life, each of us has a "lifestyle" by the way we live that life. and now i see that you can't support what you proclaim. i'm not mad at you guapobear. my point is that if this acceptance of homosexuality through the whole christian community is accepted then we go down a slippery slope. there is no distinction between sin. when one is made acceptable then how can we make the rest unacceptable? who then is accountable? this is a "do as you will" mentality
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "this is a "do as you will" mentality" - What you're working for is called dominionism. That is your goal. Thank God there are still free thinkers in this world.. This acceptance of sin, do you mean like pollution, or war, or theivery, or murder, or backbiting?? Where are your posts on that?? Scapegoating.. So fascististic..
guapobear 3 years ago
actually "do as you will" ushers in the dominion of the evil one. it is his credo. God says, "Do what I say" not "Do as you will". i would presume neither of us do any of those other sins. but they are equal in nature to every other sin except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is not forgiven. I dont think homosexuality is worse than the rest of the sins, my objection is the acceptance of it through scriptural support, because there is none. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the worst sin.
snappa52 3 years ago
i'm not talking about the nature of your sin, my sin is not in any way more acceptable than yours. my distinction is about the scripture and the church, and what is accepted as sin. when a nation disobeys God they come under judgement, so thats you and I both. when we dont admonish each other when it comes to the correct rendering of the Gospel then we all fail. when i introduce something that is incorrect i hope someone shoots a Bible verse at me like a BB.
snappa52 3 years ago
"Scapegoating.. So fascististic.."
Are you saying that when the goat was led out into the wilderness on the day of atonement, it was a fascist act? (i know you dont, but this is not how you exchange ideas) i'm not a fascist guapobear. i dont think you are the devil either. we disagree, thats all, so lets try to focus on the facts without the drama and intrigue.
snappa52 3 years ago
Snappa52- "Are you saying..." What I am saying is that you are a hypocrite. You claim that you are concerned about sin, but the only "sin" you've posted a vid regarding is homosexuality (possibly commited by 10% of the population). Heterosexual fornication and divorce are much more prominent, yet you haven't posted a word regarding that.. ergo.. YOU ARE FOUND WANTING.. JUST KEEPING IT EASY FOR THE KIDDIES TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE..
guapobear 3 years ago
The heterosexuals do not advocate these sins into acceptance through the Christian faith. i've never heard of anyone standing on the pulpit extolling the virtues of fornication and divorce. have you?
snappa52 3 years ago
Snappa52 - "...fornication and divorce..." Either you are defacto endorcing fornication and divorce or you are discriminating against GBLT persons.
guapobear 3 years ago
how do you glean that i am defacto endorsing any sin? lost me there chief. i said that heterosexuals dont advocate on behalf of fornication and divorce. they are accepted as wrong and no one will get on the pulpit to say otherwise. this is not preached in any church that i know of. why is homosexuality different than the rest? because you say so?
snappa52 3 years ago
@snappa52 "heterosexuals dont advocate on behalf of fornication and divorce. they are accepted as wrong and no one will get on the pulpit to say otherwise. this is not preached in any church that i know of. why is homosexuality different than the rest? "
Because, despite the lies, homosexuality does not hurt anyone the way fornication and divorce do. Fornication and divorce are straight sins. And they are MUCH more widespread than homosexuality is. Why are you so obsessed about the gays?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 there is no such thing as a gay or straight sin. its all the same category because we are all human beings
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 "i've never heard of anyone standing on the pulpit extolling the virtues of fornication and divorce. have you?"
No. I've only seen those standing on the pulpit practicing them.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
you can call me all of the nasty names you want boss. your arguement does not have any substance. i'm still waiting for you to provide some substance.
snappa52 3 years ago
snapps52- "you can call" - As I mentioned to you, I will provide you with the name of the most complete text I have access to on the subject.. you can purchase it for yourself if your so all-fire interested in the truth.
guapobear 3 years ago
why dont you e mail that information to me via the mail service on youtube? is this text accessible online?
snappa52 3 years ago
snappa52 - "why don't..." I've gotta get the name of it from a friend.. I read most of it - really well written.. (I know better than to send one of the lightweight ones over.) I was hoping there's some paper published of opinion from Union Theological Seminary here in the city.
guapobear 3 years ago
@guapobear I didnt post this video, and the video is concerning homosexuality. I'm saying that we are all the same and a numbered few don't get preferential treatment because they are willful in their sin and won't submit to the instruction of God through the prophets and writers of the Bible. When i screw up I ask for forgiveness, I don't rewrite the bible to suit the lifestyle I want to lead
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 Interesting thing about the Scapegoat. In the Bible, the scapegoat (la-aza'zeyl) meant, "for absolute removal" or "to be completely let go". But the Pharisees were not content with this, and decided that the scapegoat had to be killed. So in the Second Temple era, they would lead the scapegoat out of the ciy and, instead of letting it go as the Bible commanded, would push it off the cliff. Not much of a symbolf for forgiveness, is it?
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 The Pharisees were under Mosaic law, we are not because we are not Jewish. Jesus was a Jew and had to abide to Mosaic law. He not only abided by it, he affirmed it to his disciples. For you to use the scapegoat as an example is another straw man, because it is not applicable to you or I. We have the moral commandments that have been in effect from Moses until now, Jesus' sacrifice replaced the functions of the Temple.
snappa52 1 year ago
@snappa52 In your posts you keep using the expression "lifestyle". Please explain what you mean by the gay "lifestyle."
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 lifestyle=the type of life you live. everyone has one, are you going to build a diatribe of faux anger because I've used a commonly understood term?
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "abosolutely no substance to what you are saying. you are a bombastic person with no regard to the gospel or its integrity. the only proof that you give is emotion and the idea that you are entitled to cross out passages and pages that dont suit your sexual agenda."
I'm not quite sure whether you are talking here to gays or to the homophobes. It certainly fits the homophobes.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@snappa52 "2000 years of church "arbiters" agree with my theology."
I hope you're not Protestant (or Mormon). Protestantism was all about throwing out tradition. The concept of "Sola Scriptura" was invented by Martin Luther--and even he said "Scripture and *reason*" Protestants have no right to appeal to tradition.
Mormonism is also all about tossing out the whole of Christian tradition from the time of the apsostles until 1840s. So theye have no appeal to 2000 years of church "arbiters"
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 There is not one word that condones same sex relations or marriage within the Bible. You have to wrench a completely new meaning out of the bible, totally devoid of the intent. You have to make theology up, which is what you are doing. You have no support for your position, at all. But you do a fine job with the straw man, because I've never mentioned the 2000 years of church arbiters
snappa52 1 year ago
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@snappa52 "There is not one word that condones same sex relations or marriage within the Bible."
By the same token, there is nothing within the Bible that condemns it. It is in fact the homophobes who are wrenching completely new meanings out of the Bible when they take their verses out of context and refuse to consider the meaning of the original languages in order to come up with their homophobic interpretation.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 same sex relations garner a death sentence. Its part of Mosaic law which Jesus upheld. The moral laws of the OT stil hold. This is a blatant lie on your part
snappa52 1 year ago
The premise of this thread/video is that thesse guys ganged up on this gay christian who is/was a Southern Baptist kid. A total blindside... A verbal attack of the most belittling types... BTW, if you really know the bible, you will see that most everything they say about the bible is absolutely incorrect beyond regurgitation of text. ABSOLUTELY LAME THEOLOGY - "NON-DNOMINATIONAL" = "Everybody is going to hell but me.".. STUPIDS...
guapobear 3 years ago
you assume way too much, and i've never said that everyone is going to hell but me. if i dont repent of my sins daily i dont receive any blessing. but you seem to think that because a homosexual lifestyle is what you want, you can have it contrary to what the bible says. i'm accountable for every single sin i commit, and so are you. i'm saying we have the same standard to live up to. what do you think about that?
snappa52 3 years ago
@snappa52 "but you seem to think that because a homosexual lifestyle is what you want, you can have it contrary to what the bible says."
Please explain exactly what you mean by a "homosexual lifestyle."
TheStrong32 1 year ago
@TheStrong32 a homosexual separates themselves from the rest of Christianity because they won't accept the instruction of the Bible. You think your sin is okay and there is another set of sins that only apply to straight people, you've said as much. You and I are no different when it comes to the sins we commit. The only difference is that I know the sins I commit are wrong, you justify the sins you commit because you think you are a different. I say that we are the same under Biblical law
snappa52 1 year ago
well, since you want to go by the book of leviticus, lets see 1. if your wife(i'm sure you're married)is having her period, you are forbidden to touch,sleep with, even eat with her, she's unclean. so i imagine you take her to the mikveh to purify her. 2. can't eat shellfish and pork. and definately no cheeseburgers or meat served with dairy. wait- that would make you an orthodox jew. isn't that paradoxical with christianity.
oaklynlen 3 years ago
oaklynlen, Jesus was speaking to Jews. He only spoke to Gentiles on very few occasions. The moral portions of the Tanakh are binding on the Gentile believers, the ten commandments and the law of noah sum up the law and the prophets, but they do not abolish it. these laws were never binding on me because i'm not a Jew. but understand, the moral standard set forth by the Tanakh can't be contradicted by our actions. Peter's vision let us know what God thought about Gentile cuisine.
snappa52 3 years ago
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@snappa52 "Peter's vision let us know what God thought about Gentile cuisine."
Actually, Peter's vision let us know what God though about Genties. The food was only a symbol. The whole point of the vision was to prepare him for the ministry to the Gentiles. It was the people--not their food--that God was telling Peter not to call common or unclean.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
and dont forget that Jesus confirmed that Mosaic law you hate so much. are we reading the same New Testament or are you skipping over the parts contrary to your lifestyle?
snappa52 3 years ago
oaklynlen, does Matthew 5:17-20 make Jesus and orthodox Jew too? actually you dont have an absolute understanding of orthodox judaism. 75% of the laws that say "forever" are unable to be accomplished because there is no temple. so they had to figure out how to practice their faith without a temple, therefore they started to lean more and more on the traditions of the elders which is the Talmud. Jesus decried many traditions, but not all of them. His stance is that the law is above any tradition
snappa52 3 years ago
i'll say this once more- the book of leviticus was given by god only for jews. the story of S&G wasn't about gay lust, read rashi a jewish scribe who was born before jesus, it was about people who were cruel and inhospitable to strangers. and as for romans- paul was dealing with a rome whose idolaters dealt with temple prostitutes. stop hiding behind a cross to promote hate. after all what would jesus do?
oaklynlen 3 years ago
Jesus would tell you oaklynlen, not to be hypocritical. all sin defiles, God's word does not change.
snappa52 3 years ago
ok so question. You're saying all sin is equal. You also say that you cannot practice a homosexual lifestyle and be a "christian". If all sin is equal what about the straight man who watches porn? Isn't that a sin? So yeah you can't watch porn and be a christian by your own argument. Sorry you're attempt to stop homosexuality doesn't really float.
dramadrama6694 3 years ago
I think the Christian and the right thing to do would be to love and respect everybody, no matter what their personal lifestyle is. That's what Jesus would do. Why would people even be so intolerant over another person's choices, especially when those choices have no effect on your life? God is infinite love and wisdom, and that spreads over everyone gay or not.
theguitfiddle 3 years ago
Did these people read actually read the Bible? Do they know what Jesus said about homosexuality? No? That's because he DIDN'T say anything on the subject!
nikkimaxwell 4 years ago
This is a load of crap. These people claim not to be hateful or Prejudiced and then they turn around and say nasty things disguised in "nice guy" language for them to eat it all up. Digusting.
VampireLord66 4 years ago
PLZ READ THIS IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE WORD OF GOD
Ezekial 16
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
god destroyed sodom for its pride and selfishness... that sounds alot like America today... not just the homosexual community
musaka06 4 years ago
Ok then, read Leviticus 18:22, hmmm....sounds like an abomination!!!!
jayjaydry 4 years ago
Jay, I thought Leviticus laws were done away with, then the homosexual sin was brought back in the New testement,hmmmmm sounds like a contradiction.
Clemburke1111 4 years ago
God is the same yesterday, today and always....Thats not a contradiction, He never said that this wasnt an abomination anywhere in the bible. The Old Testament is still God inspired and should lead us in a christian lifestyle along with the New Test.
jayjaydry 4 years ago
jayjay,,its obvious you did not read my comment correctly,,.
Clemburke1111 4 years ago
God still loves the person, but hates the sin or abomination........but in order to be saved you have to turn from your sins and ask for forgiviness(honestly, not with intent of doing them again) and ask him into your heart.
jayjaydry 4 years ago
Its not that church's are against gay people, But to accept the lord into your heart for salvation, you must turn from your sins at that time. Thats not saying that you will not backslide into them, but we all will do that. But God destroyed Sodemn and Gamora for man lying with man and woman with woman.....so it is a sin according to my KJV bible.
jayjaydry 4 years ago
Please stop comparing RAPE to my love for my significant other. And on another note: The rape in Sodom occurred AFTER God had already decided to destroy the cities. Your KJV Bible does NOT say Sodom was destroyed for homosexuality. You are misreading it.
matthillnc 4 years ago
Ok then, read Leviticus 18:22 then.....thats as plain as it gets for me about homosexuality!!!!!!
jayjaydry 4 years ago
right up there with rape your wife, and beat your slave, and don't eat shrimp.. idiot.. read the whole books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.. The only message that is clear is this: THINGS CHANGE... Get real..
guapobear 3 years ago
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them."
Things havent changed in the dishonest manner you portray them. The moral law of the Tanakh still holds for all people calling themselves Christian because not everything the Messiah is tasked with is finished. The only thing that has changed is the temple, it is not in Jerusalem anymore it is you, you are the temple. sin defiles the temple god gave you
snappa52 3 years ago
@jayjaydry Sodom and Gommorah were not destroyed because of homosexuality, but because of inhospitality.
TheStrong32 1 year ago
they do not believe in the Resurrection and /or Christ's Second Coming or engage in the outright New Age approach.
In that light, I should think that the ex gay ministry could be a considerable option for some gay Christians who want to strive for the holy living.
dksf 4 years ago
(I was even subjected by a pseudo 'date' rape by a minister when I was lured into his apartment only to realize that I wasn't even aware that I was on a 'date'!)
And all this happened in the evangelical/ charismatic variety of gay churches I have attended, while those liberal varieties without such carnal sins practice buffet Christianity and/ or apostasy: To be continued.
dksf 4 years ago
The carnality within these churches has really made me question if one could be a gay person and God-fearing Christian. Pastors who would go out on dates with newcomers to the church with catastrophic consequences, church leaderships that turn a closed eye to and get defensive about sexual addictions among members of church and condone malicious gossiping in the congregation, disguised or blatant racism and the general lack of accountability. To be continued.
dksf 4 years ago
After twenty years of the life as a gay Christian, I have serious doubts about the authenticity of the gay Christian movement. So many things I have witnessed in the course of years at various gay/ gay-affirming churches were so far removed from what Bible teaches us as the fruits of the Spirit. To be continued.
dksf 4 years ago
i think some have a warped view of gay people...the main man made a statement about people who practice homosexuality....what?>...i dont practice being gay...i am gay.....do people practice being straight?????? just something to think about. also since i have come out of the "closet", i have led a more positive lifestyle.
evilkate666 4 years ago
The Bible DOES condem homosexuality, even in the original languages. Dr. Brown is an expert in Greek/Hebrew. He knows what he is talking about. Believe God, and be delivered from all sins.
RoseJamison 4 years ago
There are plenty of other experts and biblical scholars who disagree with Dr. Brown. Your statement should accurately be read as "Believe in God (a.k.a. Dr. Brown) and God (a.k.a. Dr. Brown) will deliver from all sins.
matthillnc 4 years ago
A lot of people think that simply believing in God and asking for forgiveness is all you need, when the Bible says you must repent, which is a turning from sin, and to trust Jesus to save you from the wrath to come. The Bible says once you do that, God will transform you from the inside out, and you'll become a new person with new desires; being born again. I think it's best to let God handle homosexuality in the individual person.
Rapgeezer 4 years ago
@RoseJamison During the conference Dr. Brown read from a defective translation which disingenuously inserted the word "homosexual" into the text of 1 Corinthians 6. The word "homosexual" did not exist in the first century AD. The Greek word is arsenokoitēs, a unique word which is only found in this one instance. Scholars have argued for centuries over what exactly it means. It could refer to pederasty, prostitution, male rape, or any number of other things.
TheStrong32 1 year ago