@ETrain919 I don't have a complete roster car by car, but many of them found their way into museums. I know the Rockhill Trolley Museum at Orbisonia adjacent to East Broad Top has one or more, and there is one at Scranton in the Electric City Trolley Museum. Maybe there are some other folks out there that can give a complete list.
i made a special trip to ride these cars back in the mid-1970's, when they were still in orange garb despite septa, and hung out the "baggage????" door with just a strap across the opening for most of the trip. could be one of the reasons my first wife divorced me, but i thought she enjoyed it......she DID freak out on the Cyclone in coney island, but that's what life's all about.
Great video! Wonder who hit the dislike button? I always loved the sound of the traction motors accelerating. I have ridden many trains and nothing beats riding in a bullet at speed in the summer with all the windows open and watching everyone in the car bounce around. I also remember the stops that were on the super-elevated curves and sliding into the person sitting next to you.
Is it an advantage or a disadvantage to be 3rd rail powered as these were? I can see how they'd be faster vehicles with a 3rd rail, and there's no overhead line to maintain, but how does it compare maintenance-wise, flexibility-wise, and weather-wise with an overhead line?
@Tubes12AX7k No real advantage to either, at the low voltage DC on which these trains run. The type of power feed does not affect the speed one way or the other. You couldn't use third rail for 15-25-50 KV AC. As to maintenance, the third rail must be maintained just like overhead wires. Not sure what the cost comparison is.
@tkandme3 If you are asking about the long viaduct at the beginning, it is the bridge over the Schuylkill River between Norristown and Bridgeport. It is still extant today, being used by the new cars. At one time the viaduct extended all the way into Norristown terminating on the second floor of a drug store (shown in the video) but was cut back when the new transportation center was built in the early 1990's.
@RNecaca I don't think so. MFSE cars were built to trolley gauge 5' 2 1/4". P&W was built to standard gauge, so in order to use MFSE cars on the P&W they would have had to be regauged at a substantial cost per unit. The CTA cars superficially resembled MFSE cars, which I think is where you are making your mistake.
@fmnut Actually 5 MFSE Budd single cars (a.k.a., "Almond Joys") were used on this line for a short time. They were standard-gauged using trucks from scrapped PATH K-cars.
If you check out my "Bullet Finale" video you will see some of the CTA cars in action. These cars were actually used much longer than anticipated due to delays in delivery of the new cars.
1:43 - 5:05 , 6:42 : Listen to that traction motor whine!!! Thanks so much for allowing us to relive our memories. Now if only my HO scale Bullets could sound like that!!
I definitely remember these high speed line cars as they passed through Villanova. At least externally they're nicer looking than the boxy cars that Septa is using today. I think i even remember seeing an orange one at a station once. Very nostalgic video.
Um, no. High speed rail as an IDEA didn't begin with wind testing in tunnels. It started with the attempts to make steam locomotives go faster and faster. There's a reason why Stephenson's 1820s/1830s wonder was called the "Rocket", even though it isn't fast by today's standards. The pinnacle of steam was reached with pre-World-War-II records that hovered around 125 mph.
Okay. As far as "High-speed" itself no dispute there at all, I couldn't agree with you more. But the P&W Bullets were the first STREAMLINED high-speed trains ever built. Because it was right after the Bullets hit the high iron was when the streamlining craze really hit, eg. the Pioneer Zephyr and the M-10000 as well as many streamlined steam locomotives.
THE P&W BULLETS WERE THE WORLD'S **FIRST** SUPERTRAINS. According to "Pig & Whistle" by Ron Degraw, they were the very first RAILROAD equipment ever tested in a wind tunnel and are therefore the world's first streamlined high-speed trains and the granddaddy of todays supertrains like the Acela Express, TGV, ICE, Shinkansen, Eurostar, and others. The City of Salina and the Pioneer Zephyr came out two years AFTER the P&W Bullets and yet they got all the credit. THE P&W BULLETS STARTED IT ALL.
This type of transit seems to make so much sense. Where I live the transportation authorities refuse to consider trollies or streetcars. Buses and concrete elevated trains is their strategy.
Yes, they were called Strafford cars, and most were out of service at the time of these videos. I mainly shot on weekends and the Strafford cars seemed to be only in use at peak periods during the week. And the P&W was part of the "Red Arrow Lines" at one time. More knowledgeable traction fans can explain this further as far as dates and corporate lineage go.
Yes the Strafford cars also ran on this line. They were built in 1924, 1927 and 1929. As built they had bulkhead doors, high mounted headlights, vestibule steps, and trolley poles; looking somewhat like Chicago 4000-series elevated cars. The trolley poles and vestibule steps were removed once the elevated Norristown Terminal opened. The bulkhead doors were sealed and headlights were relocated to make them more aerodynamic while their motors were rewired from 75 to 100 HP so they could....
..more easily keep up with the newer Bullet trains. In 1970 the P&W RR had the dubious distinction of becoming the only railroad anywhere in the world to turn into a trolley operation without any interruption to service. From that moment onward all equipment were referred to as "trolleys" and the line was renamed the "Route 100 Hi-Speed Trolley." Almost all the Straffords' MU jumper cables were severed and multi-car train operation was discontinued in favor of more frequent single-car operation.
Conclusion: The result immediately cut operating costs in half. The line's "trolley" image became etched in stone when SEPTA just recently erected a new sign at the newly-rebuilt Gulph Mills station which says, "SEPTA Route 100 Trolley Station." Even the CTA cars when they were running were called trolleys by the newsmedia. Imagine seeing "SEPTA Trolley Derailment Snarls Service" across the bottom of your TV screen as it simultaneously shows front of a CTA car. "So where's the trolley??"
Not many people think of this but according to the book "Pig & Whistle" by Ron Degraw, the P&W Bullets were the first RAILROAD equipment ever tested in a wind tunnel, making them THE WORLD'S FIRST "BULLET" TRAINS. They were NEVER refered to as trolleys until the SEPTA takeover in 1970. And that was only because there was no more interchange freight and therefore no more need for any FRA control. So by isolating it from the outside world only then it became the "Route 100 Hi-Speed Trolley."
In 1976 my father took me on this train to Norristown one day, I was then hooked, these old bullit cars were 1/3 trolley, 1/3 subway car and the rest was pure speed demon! These cars were an industry first! Placed in to service in 1936, they were sleek and fast, and capable of speeds up to 80 miles an hour or more! They are a true testament to the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the J.G. Brill company, which was based here in Philadelphia I might add, great footage and with original sound to.
A few corrections: The Bullets were built in 1931. Although tested at the century mark, they ran per the FRA-mandated 79 MPH max due to lack of cab signals, plus with their field shunts removed it limited their top speed to 80 anyway. As I mentioned before they were the world's very first Bullet TRAINS and people started calling them trolleys only after the SEPTA takeover in 1970, when it became the world's only railroad to convert to a trolley operation without any interruption to service.
These cars have always remained in my memory from my few visits to Philadelphia when I was little in the 40s & 50s. Thanks for posting this video. (PS: check your date in the explanation, "1998-1990": A typo?
What a great video. Thanks so much for posting it. What runs on that line now? I went to Philly about two years ago. I want to go back in the fall and ride as much as I can.
They got some custom built replacements for the Bullets that were very late in delivery and ran way over budget. They also suffered from many teething problems when new. I haven't kept up with how well they run now, maybe somebody who knows more can comment?
Hi. I took a shop tour about a few months ago and according to the foreman, they are running beautifully. The prototype car is just now getting it's first major overhaul. They have extended dynamic (or regenerative brakes) down to 1 MPH. The air brakes basically just hold the car and therefore some of he cars are still running with their original brake shoes!!! Compared to the old equipment these cars are almost maintenance free. Again this is according to the shop foreman.
No. The last one was retired in 1990. They were TESTED at 100+ MPH, but in regular service they ran at 79 MPH, not only because they lacked cab signals but also because with their field shunts disconnected their top speed was 79-80 MPH anyway. No. 205 still runs today at the Rock Hill Trolley Museum at Orbisonia, PA but has to run with trolley poles. They also have a Liberty Liner, Line car 402, and Plow 10.
This WAS the Philadelphia & Western RAILROAD. But after 1970 it was changed to the "Route 100 Norristown High-speed TROLLEY." All that had to be done was get rid of the freight, then the line could be isolated from the outside world, so it would no longer need FRA control. Only then did it become a "trolley." I have many memories of riding the Bullet Train since I was 5 and totally enjoyed every ride.
I stand corrected, I had the service dates crossed with the Brill high speed cars in use over the Delaware river bridge (currently the Ben Franklin)to camden, they being the most distinctive subway cars ever installed on the Philadelphia subway system. J.G. Brill was an exceptional coach and streetcar builder, the Brill DRPA/Broad Street cars were nicknamed the "Buck rodgers cars" in 1936 by a visiting journalist from New York. Thank's for the correction.
What did SEPTA do with these cars?
ETrain919 1 week ago
@ETrain919 I don't have a complete roster car by car, but many of them found their way into museums. I know the Rockhill Trolley Museum at Orbisonia adjacent to East Broad Top has one or more, and there is one at Scranton in the Electric City Trolley Museum. Maybe there are some other folks out there that can give a complete list.
fmnut 1 week ago
i made a special trip to ride these cars back in the mid-1970's, when they were still in orange garb despite septa, and hung out the "baggage????" door with just a strap across the opening for most of the trip. could be one of the reasons my first wife divorced me, but i thought she enjoyed it......she DID freak out on the Cyclone in coney island, but that's what life's all about.
eswillie 9 months ago
Great video! Wonder who hit the dislike button? I always loved the sound of the traction motors accelerating. I have ridden many trains and nothing beats riding in a bullet at speed in the summer with all the windows open and watching everyone in the car bounce around. I also remember the stops that were on the super-elevated curves and sliding into the person sitting next to you.
jlhilden 1 year ago
Is it an advantage or a disadvantage to be 3rd rail powered as these were? I can see how they'd be faster vehicles with a 3rd rail, and there's no overhead line to maintain, but how does it compare maintenance-wise, flexibility-wise, and weather-wise with an overhead line?
Tubes12AX7k 1 year ago
@Tubes12AX7k No real advantage to either, at the low voltage DC on which these trains run. The type of power feed does not affect the speed one way or the other. You couldn't use third rail for 15-25-50 KV AC. As to maintenance, the third rail must be maintained just like overhead wires. Not sure what the cost comparison is.
fmnut 1 year ago
aww theyre so cute. What bridge is this on? What route?
tkandme3 1 year ago
@tkandme3 If you are asking about the long viaduct at the beginning, it is the bridge over the Schuylkill River between Norristown and Bridgeport. It is still extant today, being used by the new cars. At one time the viaduct extended all the way into Norristown terminating on the second floor of a drug store (shown in the video) but was cut back when the new transportation center was built in the early 1990's.
fmnut 1 year ago
Also septa used a few of the old Budd Market Frankford cars as well.
RNecaca 2 years ago
a.k.a. "Almond Joys."
nyshortline 2 years ago
@RNecaca I don't think so. MFSE cars were built to trolley gauge 5' 2 1/4". P&W was built to standard gauge, so in order to use MFSE cars on the P&W they would have had to be regauged at a substantial cost per unit. The CTA cars superficially resembled MFSE cars, which I think is where you are making your mistake.
fmnut 1 year ago
@fmnut Actually 5 MFSE Budd single cars (a.k.a., "Almond Joys") were used on this line for a short time. They were standard-gauged using trucks from scrapped PATH K-cars.
nyshortline 1 year ago
@nyshortline I was unaware of that. Of course, had there not been compatible standard gauge trucks available, my original argument would apply.
fmnut 1 year ago
@fmnut I have a few photos of MFSE cars running on the line. In fact there was once a charter trip on the P&W using a two-car train of "Almond Joys."
nyshortline 1 year ago
I remember when septa had to borrow some 6000 series cars from CTA before they new cars replaced these.
milepost53 2 years ago
If you check out my "Bullet Finale" video you will see some of the CTA cars in action. These cars were actually used much longer than anticipated due to delays in delivery of the new cars.
fmnut 2 years ago
1:43 - 5:05 , 6:42 : Listen to that traction motor whine!!! Thanks so much for allowing us to relive our memories. Now if only my HO scale Bullets could sound like that!!
nyshortline 2 years ago
I definitely remember these high speed line cars as they passed through Villanova. At least externally they're nicer looking than the boxy cars that Septa is using today. I think i even remember seeing an orange one at a station once. Very nostalgic video.
Tubes12AX7k 2 years ago
Um, no. High speed rail as an IDEA didn't begin with wind testing in tunnels. It started with the attempts to make steam locomotives go faster and faster. There's a reason why Stephenson's 1820s/1830s wonder was called the "Rocket", even though it isn't fast by today's standards. The pinnacle of steam was reached with pre-World-War-II records that hovered around 125 mph.
Rickyrab 2 years ago
Okay. As far as "High-speed" itself no dispute there at all, I couldn't agree with you more. But the P&W Bullets were the first STREAMLINED high-speed trains ever built. Because it was right after the Bullets hit the high iron was when the streamlining craze really hit, eg. the Pioneer Zephyr and the M-10000 as well as many streamlined steam locomotives.
RDG484 2 years ago 8
THE P&W BULLETS WERE THE WORLD'S **FIRST** SUPERTRAINS. According to "Pig & Whistle" by Ron Degraw, they were the very first RAILROAD equipment ever tested in a wind tunnel and are therefore the world's first streamlined high-speed trains and the granddaddy of todays supertrains like the Acela Express, TGV, ICE, Shinkansen, Eurostar, and others. The City of Salina and the Pioneer Zephyr came out two years AFTER the P&W Bullets and yet they got all the credit. THE P&W BULLETS STARTED IT ALL.
RDG484 2 years ago 11
This type of transit seems to make so much sense. Where I live the transportation authorities refuse to consider trollies or streetcars. Buses and concrete elevated trains is their strategy.
ethicomm 2 years ago
Glad someone filmed the Bullets in action. Wish I'd been as smart.
UrbanDKaye 3 years ago
5:06--"Push to stop TRAIN."
RDG484 3 years ago 5
Weren't Stafford cars also used here? Or was that on the Red Arrow?
CNJGeep 3 years ago
Yes, they were called Strafford cars, and most were out of service at the time of these videos. I mainly shot on weekends and the Strafford cars seemed to be only in use at peak periods during the week. And the P&W was part of the "Red Arrow Lines" at one time. More knowledgeable traction fans can explain this further as far as dates and corporate lineage go.
fmnut 3 years ago
Yes the Strafford cars also ran on this line. They were built in 1924, 1927 and 1929. As built they had bulkhead doors, high mounted headlights, vestibule steps, and trolley poles; looking somewhat like Chicago 4000-series elevated cars. The trolley poles and vestibule steps were removed once the elevated Norristown Terminal opened. The bulkhead doors were sealed and headlights were relocated to make them more aerodynamic while their motors were rewired from 75 to 100 HP so they could....
RDG484 3 years ago 2
..more easily keep up with the newer Bullet trains. In 1970 the P&W RR had the dubious distinction of becoming the only railroad anywhere in the world to turn into a trolley operation without any interruption to service. From that moment onward all equipment were referred to as "trolleys" and the line was renamed the "Route 100 Hi-Speed Trolley." Almost all the Straffords' MU jumper cables were severed and multi-car train operation was discontinued in favor of more frequent single-car operation.
RDG484 3 years ago 5
Conclusion: The result immediately cut operating costs in half. The line's "trolley" image became etched in stone when SEPTA just recently erected a new sign at the newly-rebuilt Gulph Mills station which says, "SEPTA Route 100 Trolley Station." Even the CTA cars when they were running were called trolleys by the newsmedia. Imagine seeing "SEPTA Trolley Derailment Snarls Service" across the bottom of your TV screen as it simultaneously shows front of a CTA car. "So where's the trolley??"
RDG484 3 years ago 5
Not many people think of this but according to the book "Pig & Whistle" by Ron Degraw, the P&W Bullets were the first RAILROAD equipment ever tested in a wind tunnel, making them THE WORLD'S FIRST "BULLET" TRAINS. They were NEVER refered to as trolleys until the SEPTA takeover in 1970. And that was only because there was no more interchange freight and therefore no more need for any FRA control. So by isolating it from the outside world only then it became the "Route 100 Hi-Speed Trolley."
RDG484 3 years ago 5
In 1976 my father took me on this train to Norristown one day, I was then hooked, these old bullit cars were 1/3 trolley, 1/3 subway car and the rest was pure speed demon! These cars were an industry first! Placed in to service in 1936, they were sleek and fast, and capable of speeds up to 80 miles an hour or more! They are a true testament to the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the J.G. Brill company, which was based here in Philadelphia I might add, great footage and with original sound to.
italobambino43 3 years ago
A few corrections: The Bullets were built in 1931. Although tested at the century mark, they ran per the FRA-mandated 79 MPH max due to lack of cab signals, plus with their field shunts removed it limited their top speed to 80 anyway. As I mentioned before they were the world's very first Bullet TRAINS and people started calling them trolleys only after the SEPTA takeover in 1970, when it became the world's only railroad to convert to a trolley operation without any interruption to service.
RDG484 3 years ago 5
These cars have always remained in my memory from my few visits to Philadelphia when I was little in the 40s & 50s. Thanks for posting this video. (PS: check your date in the explanation, "1998-1990": A typo?
cccookies 3 years ago
Yes, fingers moving too fast and failed to proofread. Should read "1988-1990" Sorry!
fmnut 3 years ago
Unusually good footage of a fascinating transit operation. I really enjoyed riding this line while visiting the Philadelphia area.
OldZephyr 3 years ago
What a great video. Thanks so much for posting it. What runs on that line now? I went to Philly about two years ago. I want to go back in the fall and ride as much as I can.
adelgado75 3 years ago
They got some custom built replacements for the Bullets that were very late in delivery and ran way over budget. They also suffered from many teething problems when new. I haven't kept up with how well they run now, maybe somebody who knows more can comment?
fmnut 3 years ago
Hi. I took a shop tour about a few months ago and according to the foreman, they are running beautifully. The prototype car is just now getting it's first major overhaul. They have extended dynamic (or regenerative brakes) down to 1 MPH. The air brakes basically just hold the car and therefore some of he cars are still running with their original brake shoes!!! Compared to the old equipment these cars are almost maintenance free. Again this is according to the shop foreman.
RDG484 3 years ago
In addition some of the cars still have their original wheels because they have steerable axles which drastically reduce wheel and tread wear.
RDG484 3 years ago 2
Simply marvelous video. I grew up in Philly but never saw these. Are they still running? How fast do these go? I heard they could do 100 mph.
ROCKSTARCRANE 3 years ago
No. The last one was retired in 1990. They were TESTED at 100+ MPH, but in regular service they ran at 79 MPH, not only because they lacked cab signals but also because with their field shunts disconnected their top speed was 79-80 MPH anyway. No. 205 still runs today at the Rock Hill Trolley Museum at Orbisonia, PA but has to run with trolley poles. They also have a Liberty Liner, Line car 402, and Plow 10.
RDG484 3 years ago
Does a really fine job of capturing what these cars were like in their later years.
chuckwc2003 3 years ago
Very well done. Bravo!
intheupperroom 3 years ago
This WAS the Philadelphia & Western RAILROAD. But after 1970 it was changed to the "Route 100 Norristown High-speed TROLLEY." All that had to be done was get rid of the freight, then the line could be isolated from the outside world, so it would no longer need FRA control. Only then did it become a "trolley." I have many memories of riding the Bullet Train since I was 5 and totally enjoyed every ride.
RDG484 3 years ago
I stand corrected, I had the service dates crossed with the Brill high speed cars in use over the Delaware river bridge (currently the Ben Franklin)to camden, they being the most distinctive subway cars ever installed on the Philadelphia subway system. J.G. Brill was an exceptional coach and streetcar builder, the Brill DRPA/Broad Street cars were nicknamed the "Buck rodgers cars" in 1936 by a visiting journalist from New York. Thank's for the correction.
italobambino43 3 years ago
it seems to be a yery little train for a large line? I'm right?
merdaenorme 3 years ago
It is a transit line. The short time between trains handles the traffic fine, even with the small cars.
fmnut 3 years ago
Now called the 100.
videonut33 4 years ago