This is a great idea, and the future has to be solar.. you say it costs more, but there are leaking and aging nuclear reactors all over the US. there is an old reactor near new york city, if that one melts down like fukushima, what's the cost of evacuating 17 million people from a world financial and business center? Japan could barely evacuate 90,000. Also, how about the cost of nuclear disposal and the cost of nuclear terrorism? Factor all the costs people!!!
There is no fucking way that power from here could be 3 times more expensive. This is fucking monetary propaganda because it doesn't consume any resources!
@sungiga G'day, nice clip ! I enjoyed it, especiajy the juxtaposition that it's the top-related link to a clip of mine; and we're the 2 ends of the Solar R&D spectrum... To see what I mean, search 'solar thermal ramjet', & have a giggle at NASA ranked backseat to a Hillbilly..! For the backstory, search 'sunfoil', & it's an interlocking suite of vid's. The "Short-Talk" is best entrypoint, & "SunFoil Science..." maybe best value. Enjoy..!
Such power plants in the sahara could be used to harness hydrogen from water, transport it where it's needed and harness electricity via hydrogen fuel cell. Looks like arabs won't bankrupt that fast after all.
The PS10 has cost a total of €35 Million. After finishing it still has 300 Maintenance and service jobs. (i couldnt find what the anual cost was of running the plant)
It delivers electricity for a total of €5.1Million per year.
he was talking about sahara deseret. actually morocco would be a good idea, south portugal spain near north africa is the best for all thermal solar, i think all solar facilities are best then turbines one in spain overheated and caused a fire
What makes you think this would be higher risk than anything else? They are producing 11 MW, which would be less than 0.1 percent of spains energy consumption, which is still good since its completely green.
@MikaelLAOhman I'm talking about the threat of being overtaken, destroyed, captured, etc. If we rely on a power source that is located in an isolated desert, we risk providing adequate security to protect the facility.
Its part of a greater project; A 300MW plan in that area. If that is being realised its a significant amount (over 1%). and it covers only a small area on land. One big advantage in this system is that they also have power at night. A big problem with PV driven solar projects.
I invented a breakthrough energy source which violates the law of energy conservation. I have a PROOF that there are electrodynamic phenomena which violate the law of energy conservation (and also experimental evidence of such phenomena). Making a 6 kW generator will cost $1200, value of the energy produced yearly $5400, zero operating costs. I am looking for $300 000 for a prototype and for $3M for patents.
ummm putting millions in the sahara desert to power europe?? how about millions in the sahara desert to power the many countries on the african continent since it is their land.(stop trying to continue to steal from the people of that continent)
Looks like a trip to include Seville would be good too! Thank you for these videos. they are very helpful with understanding how far the rest of the world has advanced in renewable energy production. Come on Australia! Let's compete. we have plenty of sun and wind so no real excuse.
To respond to criticism of the Spanish renewable energy industry ISTAS published a rebuttal of the Calzada report released in 2009. See: ISTAS > Análisis crítico del documento Study of the effects on employment of public aid to renewables energy sources de Calzada. PUNTOS DÉBILES DEL DOCUMENTO DE G. CALZADA
1. Falta de rigor científico-técnico
2. Emplea una mala definición de los empleos verdes
3. Ignora la efectiva rentabilidad socio-económica de las inversiones en renovables.
This system might work if they can overcome one problem. There is the (unmentioned!) requirement of hundreds of millions of gallons of WATER needed annually for cooling, heat transfer and mirror washing... good luck in the Sahara or most other sun-drenched locations on this planet.
Water is the only way they can wash the mirrors... lots of water. Understand the power generating technology: at 600 to 800 gallons per mW cooling water requirement they are a water hog.
Top soil is for growing food. Previously it has not been burned for transport (unless maybe using wood in steam driven trains 2 centuries ago?) With tens of thousands of children dying of starvation every day anyone who would plan to use topsoil to power millions of trucks would be a very "disconnected" person. Top soil in the US was commonly reproted at 18" in the 1800's and now is at an average of 8". *Careful* use of diesel oil is a good way to power trucks and trains.
"BrightSource Energys dry-cooled Ivanpah project in Southern California would consume an estimated 25 million gallons a year, mainly to wash mirrors." - NYT
Yes they could get the water consumption down from an annual 1.3Bn gallons for this type of solar farm to 25 million gallons just for washing (the mirrors have to be very clean - tied to efficiency.) But to do this they will have to use fans for cooling - electric fans juicy fans so there goes the efficiency again. but maybe the only way out for these plants. . Btw, 25 million, while a big savings, and nearly a 50th of the water cooling requirement, is still close to 70,000 gallons per day!
1.9liter per home per day is a lot out in a desert area... where water is already in short supply... and (near) where growers like to irrigate food for (solar) ripening and easy (solar = dry) harvest... good luck with it...
when put into practice, ideas like solar chimneys tend to deliver up new challenges... though they promise startling results... an amazing phenomenon...
Do people really need all that drinkable water to flush away their pee? If they pee on the crops, they save on water AND fertilizer!
"when put into practice, ideas like solar chimneys tend to deliver up new challenges... though they promise startling results..."
If you had spent a few minutes on Google, you'd have learned that solar chimneys have been in use for thousands of years. Lazy people like you are depleting this world.
The question is do YOU really need all that water to flush away YOUR pee? Peeing on crops is probably going to get you in trouble for trespassing and endangering public health.
And look at the hype in the above vid... all about attracting investors.... and hiding the truth... even the term dry-cooling is misleading... it's not dry-coolng, it's cooling using electricity!
Alright. People waving fans are renewable too. Unless they burn oil, drive animals to extinction, and turn land into desert. I suppose potential Roman fan-wavers didn't do that.
The term "dry cooling" could infer that is is an viable alternative to wet cooling. What s meant by dry cooling is that power generated by the system has to be used to cool the system... a very big efficiency compromise.
Again there is a misunderstanding. At todays energy prices "dry-cooled" solar thermal is not attractive. Developers are pulling out of projects because they are unable to get water rights. Dry cooled projects will appear... but are not as attractive.
@fpvshitsonhsv every one is thumbing that comment down but you've got a good point. there is a long way to go until we can completely transfer over, but this hopefully will be the beggining of investment of time research and money to see whether this type of power is a viable solution to an ever growing problem
No problem then tell them to set one up for your house and you can pay the bill.The price it will cost to build that thing you would never pay it back in your life time
forget about eficiency, nuclear energy is high structured investment and gives power to single hand that makes monopolistic or oligipolistic control on energy. but, small structured solar energy gives people energy freedom, not any kind of dependencency. and that is very very crucial for more free world.
@vanmemet: decentralization's not only necessary for this kind of energy. we know that from p2p networks where there are leechers, seeders and peers. nearly everybody being able to transform energy to scales that are useful for us humans as well as being connected in an energy cloud gives maximum stability and maximum independence for nearly every single household.
It is a mixed bag to get where we may need to go. A family house would combine, some sort of Solar, Wind, and Biodigester for the homes organic waste- that would give you methane. The methane is used to cook and heat. Energy storage would be in Methane Tank and Batteries/Compressed air.
Big citys and heavy industry= nuclear source, no greener way to get the concentrated power needed.
Wow! It only produces 1/100th of the amount of power generated by a nuclear power station and occupies 10 times the amount of space. I can't wait until all of the mountain tops are cleared and filled with these industrial eye sores. All so we can produce half of the amount of power we need.
The "lack of space" argument coming from the nuclear lobby is really rather silly. Look at a google map sometime. I can find you a million square miles in Australia without a single inhabitant, and the Sahara creeps into the Sahel by a mile a year across a four thousand mile front. And further, the area notionally needed to power the United states at the efficiency of one of these units occupies an area less than 1/16th that of Arizona. The energy payback on these rigs leaves nuclear for dead.
1/16th the size of Arizona! Thats a hell of a lot of space! I rest my case. How much environmental impact do you think that will have. How many ecosystems will that disturb. How many resources will be needed to mine the raw materials, build processing and manufacturing plants to create this monster.? How much industrial waste will be produced? What about maintenance? How will you distribute the power equally on the grid across the U.S from the source?
Enviro impact: Less than the present coal/gas system. Area used is similar to the area we presently mine for coal and uranium, but in less sensitive areas. The materials can be supplied from existing infrastructure. Toxic waste from steel and glass? No exotic or high energy materials, I can send a link to an economic assessment if you want to know about maintenance, these have been operating since 1986. We already have a grid for transmission, and they can be added to existing steam plant.
but to those who want to build a lot of them in sahara. these power stations are steam turbines like any other conventional power station and work better when the air is cold. sahara is way to hot to have an efficient station.
the best place to build them would be at the top of mountains above clouds and in cold air.
the maximal efficiency of a steam power plant depends on the temperature of the steam at the intake of the turbine (the higher the better) and the outside air temperature (the lower the better)
any power plant using heat produce less power on a hot day than on a cold day.
for example your car will go a bit faster on a cold day than on a really hot day
Prove it. The cooling part of a steam engine tends to only cool to 100 degrees Celsius. That's well above the climate temperature of most places on Earth. If you need faster cooling, just use a bigger water supply for the pump so it has more time to radiate waste heat.
don't forget the huge areas dug up to find uranium and all the co2 used to extract and deliverer it to the station plus area needed to store spent materials
Exactly right, "apples with apples" needs the whole life-cycle looked at. The difference is that NIMBYs in the States buy purified uranium ores for their geographically small nuclear power stations, and not the mess that comes with it, nor the CO2 that refined it. The epic open-cut mines are here in Australia, but wait...that isn't in their backyard, so it doesn't count, does it?
Let someone else hold the whip, just buy the cotton...
No justification is necessary. It is a fact that no solar unit can consistently produce 1900 megawatts an hour, every hour, 24 hours a day on a space less than 10 acres period. The nuclear power plant that I used to work at could do this. If you want to turn half of your country into a giant industrial power plant to power 2000 homes. Go ahead, I will stick with nuclear fission until nuclear fusion technology is developed.
Nevada Solar One: 400 American survey acres generating 64 MW. At continuous use of 2,000 watt per home, 64 MW powers 32,000 homes. That's 25 acres for 2000 homes. A little more if you want consistent power from molten salts and other energy carriers that aren't as unhealthy as fission fuel.
North Anna units 1 and 2 located in mineral va. Each generate about 980 megawatts each, 24 hours a day on about 15 acres of land. A far cry from 64 megawatts.
You didn't count the specialized mining, refining, and disposal area use; and the generator isn't going to be built on a ship or in the middle of a city (solar, wind, and water power generators can, though).
right they forget to add in the truck drivers the pipe lines the helicopter to fly the people out in the ocean and also the doctor bills and what else did they forget?
1 "Half (my) country" is bunk. in Australia's case, one 20th of 1percent, less area than is covered by coal mines now.
2. not every place needs 2GW in the one place! Distributed generation is better in many cases, less Tx and Dx losses too.
3. Constant output: here in summer, and in Southern USA too, the load varies greatly. Air Con a major component. Solar follows this load. Nuclear is less efficient at part load. Constant output is a straw man, especially in large grid contexts.
Nuclear power plants never operate at partial load. They are the stabilizing element for the grid. Where I am located they provide about 33% of the total output. If additional power is needed at peak times then a coal, gas, or hydro unit is brought online. Have you ever worked at a power plant?
No, but I have worked for the state office of energy, and spent 8 hours a day with the outputs of the national grid monitors. I have a science degree in energy management, and am pursuing a masters by research in waste heat recovery. I presently work for a mining engineering consultancy. My father in law worked at a thermal power station for 26 years, and I know what makes em tick. And I wouldn't call inflexible baseload a stabilizing effect, frequency control needs dispatchable power.
Oh my! Our argument is over, I must submit to your greatness. You actually have documents hanging on your wall telling all who see them that you are smart. You actually knew someone that worked in a power plant. And you even had a job working as a government bureaucrat. I can only bask in your reflected glory. You are 100% right. Everyone please forgive me for wasting time commenting in this forum.
You suggested that I couldn't know about grid control because I hadn't worked in a power plant. But study is not a less legitimate way of learning, surely? Don't engineers go to school in the USA?
I maintain the objection that you are unwilling to answer: Nuclear is poor at following load, and renewables have a legitimate place supplying a sizable percentage of the supplies mix.
I agree, nuclear is poor at following the load, that is why they are not used in that capacity. They are used to provide a stable, economical, and profitable source of power to the electrical grid. If frequency drags then a hydro, coal, or in your case solar unit can be brought on line. If demand drops then the extra power produced is sold elsewhere. This is how a power company stays in buisiness.
Base load is not a straw man argument. We have enough fuel in Uranium Plutonium and especially Thorium to meet our needs for hundreds of thousands of years.
1. Uranium: Nonsense. Look at how much U235 we have, its not large compared to global energy use. 2. Plutonium: Sure, if we put breeder reactors all over the place, this extends the nuclear fuel available massively. Do you really want the global economy based on plutonium? Even in countries that have a new name every year?
3. Thorium: AMEN! bring it. But how many commercial Thorium reactors are operating? Hell, how many are 'planned'?
wind power is unreliable because it's dependent to the climate: it's not always windy, you know! furthermore the wind should reach a certain speed to make the windmills effective power generators.
It's not always sunny either. Seville has 2898 hours of sun per year, which is 30% of the time. But not every sunny hour is intense enough to produce the 11MW energy in the tower (e.g. dusk, dawn, winter). It's "load-factor" will therefore be lower than 30% (around 20-25% for Seville). Depending on location, wind turbine load factor is 20-40%. In all this 11MW tower powers 6000 homes. 11 MW of wind turbines power 11000 homes.
Wrong. This isn't PV solar, where the rated output is a function of Peak capacity multiplied by annual peak daylight hours equivalent.
Its rating is determined by the output of the steam turbine: you can scale the heat storage capacity and the collector area so that its running at its rated capacity round the clock or following the load profile. Its not intermittent like wind, in that sense: with storage it's dispatchable power.
And Generators have Capacity factors, not Load factors, BTW
Regarding reliability: it's about location. A solar tower in the Sahara will have a much more reliable production than one near London. An offshore wind farm near Scotland will have a more reliable production than one near Rome.
Well, I tend to disagree with both of you. While I think solar energy is a great power source, it should not exclude the use of other renewable energies, e.g. wind or water power. Now, it is right that wind is not always available, but that goes for sunlight aswell. Where I live, we have a huge solar collector field, but several wind turbines, too. The collectors are placed here, in the dale, while the windmills stand on top of a hill, wehere there are nice, strong winds every day.
Who on Earth suggested that we exclude anything? I'm all for wind, solar, geothermal, and even the safer types of nuclear in stable countries.
I dont know why people think that praising one technology's potential implies a denigration of others. It all beats hell out of coal and oil, and each fills a part of the demand curve well.
Oh and btw, Thorium reactors are a really great idea, though it's doubtful, whether they'll get the proper attention, at least in the next years to come.
Another technology (which is even less probable to be widely used, anytime soon) I have always been fascinated with, is nuclear fusion.
I know, at the moment the test reactors are more enegry sinks than sources and it's a loooooong way to go, but I'm sure we'll get it to work, eventually.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This is the awesome! I live in Arizona and we can have these EVERYWHERE! Oh yeah, global warming, or atleast the idea that humans are causing it, is the greatest, most hyped up, false idea ever discussed in human history.
"humans are causing it, is the greatest, most hyped up, false idea ever discussed in human history."
humans release gases that trap the heat inside earth. and particulates reflect sun rays that can make winters colder. isnt this enough to show that global warming can happen?
you pro pollution people are getting annoying. saying that global warming doesnt exists cause its not hotter, is like saying that cell phones wont give you a tumor only cause you dont have one yet.
I am happy to supply you with as much evidence you require, but it is beyond what one can put in a 500 character box. Can you narrow it down a little for me? The resource argument I can address with existing research, as the embodied energy has been calculated by an number of good studies. How much land is too much is another question: but have you seen a desert lately? I live on a continent that is mostly desert, and find it hard to fret about using 0.2% of it for power generation.
We can go back an forth on this issue forever. The fact is it is an impractical means of producing large amounts of energy. When a solar plant can consistently produce 1900 megawatts everyday 24/7 on a space less than 10 acres than it will be a viable competitor to nuclear. If you live in a desert go for it. But it will not work in a country like France. That is why 95% of their power is from nuclear. With no greenhouse gases or coal mining.
No greenhouse gases? Does all the uranium mining and disposal work on recent plants, other forms of solar power, or uranium sources that will be depleted in 60 years or so?
So all the mining and production of materials for wind turbines and solar cells and all the concrete these projects require take no greenhouse gases not to mention the transportation and land that has to be used for such little gain.
Running windmills produce power without having to mine, transport, and purify the last remaining radioactive metal for it. Broken blades can be recycled more easily than radioactive waste.
I have read so many articles of Spain's push towards renewable energy. They are one of the largest producers of wind turbine generated electricity. They have huge plans to add more wind farms. Go Spain! Show the world!
made d same thng 4 science fair.....1st prize!!!!!
Thesagitarrio 1 week ago
:D
AndreSilverheart 2 months ago
There are so many deserts. But you know what? I think this is the kind of energy that Exxon doesn't want you to know about
CamiloSanchez1979 2 months ago
furthermore, this is a simple technology, mirrors and steam generators, that means minimal risk of catastrophic failure. All you need is some space.
tooosweeet 5 months ago
This is a great idea, and the future has to be solar.. you say it costs more, but there are leaking and aging nuclear reactors all over the US. there is an old reactor near new york city, if that one melts down like fukushima, what's the cost of evacuating 17 million people from a world financial and business center? Japan could barely evacuate 90,000. Also, how about the cost of nuclear disposal and the cost of nuclear terrorism? Factor all the costs people!!!
tooosweeet 5 months ago
Have a listen to what he said, Can you imagine the cost of research and development to make something like this work?
TheCaptainbigbird 6 months ago
There is no fucking way that power from here could be 3 times more expensive. This is fucking monetary propaganda because it doesn't consume any resources!
Beef1188 6 months ago
@sungiga G'day, nice clip ! I enjoyed it, especiajy the juxtaposition that it's the top-related link to a clip of mine; and we're the 2 ends of the Solar R&D spectrum... To see what I mean, search 'solar thermal ramjet', & have a giggle at NASA ranked backseat to a Hillbilly..! For the backstory, search 'sunfoil', & it's an interlocking suite of vid's. The "Short-Talk" is best entrypoint, & "SunFoil Science..." maybe best value. Enjoy..!
WarblesOnALot 7 months ago
Rubbia For President :D
Martozzi 7 months ago
Such power plants in the sahara could be used to harness hydrogen from water, transport it where it's needed and harness electricity via hydrogen fuel cell. Looks like arabs won't bankrupt that fast after all.
2009zigi 9 months ago
How much dose it cost to make
mrSnoopcheri 10 months ago
@mrSnoopcheri
The PS10 has cost a total of €35 Million. After finishing it still has 300 Maintenance and service jobs. (i couldnt find what the anual cost was of running the plant)
It delivers electricity for a total of €5.1Million per year.
generalgeert 9 months ago
he was talking about sahara deseret. actually morocco would be a good idea, south portugal spain near north africa is the best for all thermal solar, i think all solar facilities are best then turbines one in spain overheated and caused a fire
badsign1980 11 months ago
love it how can we get one
mhlubs 1 year ago
The only part about this whole idea that fails, is concentrating such a high dependence of power in a fucking desert.
Can anyone else see the vulnerability of placing the source of our power in an isolated area like that? It's just asking to be graped.
visualkei72 1 year ago
@visualkei72
What makes you think this would be higher risk than anything else? They are producing 11 MW, which would be less than 0.1 percent of spains energy consumption, which is still good since its completely green.
MikaelLAOhman 11 months ago
@MikaelLAOhman I'm talking about the threat of being overtaken, destroyed, captured, etc. If we rely on a power source that is located in an isolated desert, we risk providing adequate security to protect the facility.
visualkei72 11 months ago
@MikaelLAOhman
Its part of a greater project; A 300MW plan in that area. If that is being realised its a significant amount (over 1%). and it covers only a small area on land. One big advantage in this system is that they also have power at night. A big problem with PV driven solar projects.
generalgeert 9 months ago
This looks great. Harnessing solar energy can prove to be immensely useful. Spain walks a mile ahead with this one.
amberjacksolar 1 year ago
Lies about not having any Green House gases.. water vapour is a green house gas.
ImTheCanadianEh 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I invented a breakthrough energy source which violates the law of energy conservation. I have a PROOF that there are electrodynamic phenomena which violate the law of energy conservation (and also experimental evidence of such phenomena). Making a 6 kW generator will cost $1200, value of the energy produced yearly $5400, zero operating costs. I am looking for $300 000 for a prototype and for $3M for patents.
H. Tomasz Grzybowski
tel. +48-512-933-540
henrykay01 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ummm putting millions in the sahara desert to power europe?? how about millions in the sahara desert to power the many countries on the african continent since it is their land.(stop trying to continue to steal from the people of that continent)
krzintegraboi 1 year ago
Comment removed
krzintegraboi 1 year ago
Solar is the ONLY green way of producing energy.
More resources have to be invested into its progress.
pharyngealized 1 year ago
@pharyngealized nope zero point field energy ultimate green energy and needs less space and produce a lot more power.
krzintegraboi 1 year ago
@krzintegraboi Hopefully you are just joking. thats psuedoscience rubbish from star trek etc lol.
Try reading up on it.
elevown 1 year ago
YouTube recommended this video. This type of technology is perfect for the desert.
E-T
etellurian 1 year ago
solar energy is incredibly inefficient
powerplantnl 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@powerplantnl
how you say so
fatehcorp@gmail.com
fatehcorp 1 year ago
How about using magnifying lenses to intensify solar heat? It could save space.
judemanganti1 1 year ago
How about using magnifying lenses to intensify solar heat towards the boiler? A lesser area would be needed.
judemanganti1 1 year ago
How about using magnifying lenses to intensify the heat of the sun?
judemanganti1 1 year ago
nicer movier!
toshiakianzaki 1 year ago
Thought its PlayStation 10 ;/
sbaromb 1 year ago
Looks like a trip to include Seville would be good too! Thank you for these videos. they are very helpful with understanding how far the rest of the world has advanced in renewable energy production. Come on Australia! Let's compete. we have plenty of sun and wind so no real excuse.
EcoAli 1 year ago
To respond to criticism of the Spanish renewable energy industry ISTAS published a rebuttal of the Calzada report released in 2009. See: ISTAS > Análisis crítico del documento Study of the effects on employment of public aid to renewables energy sources de Calzada. PUNTOS DÉBILES DEL DOCUMENTO DE G. CALZADA
1. Falta de rigor científico-técnico
2. Emplea una mala definición de los empleos verdes
3. Ignora la efectiva rentabilidad socio-económica de las inversiones en renovables.
MuchoDoctorJ 1 year ago
Imagine what it would be like if a bird accidentally flew in front of that thing...
randommagnum 1 year ago
toastie
mudassirul 1 year ago
@randommagnum thats an interesting thought
baaasil 1 year ago
Look up : (Ultracapacitor bus) or (Trolleybus) use that technology for the power washing crane.
cyborgsnowyowl 1 year ago
"No emissions" - cut to a huge diesel powered washing crane.
rekkujalmari 2 years ago
Perfect for Israel, and other countries that have no natural resources of there own!!!
NeoAltPower 2 years ago
This system might work if they can overcome one problem. There is the (unmentioned!) requirement of hundreds of millions of gallons of WATER needed annually for cooling, heat transfer and mirror washing... good luck in the Sahara or most other sun-drenched locations on this planet.
yangzone 2 years ago
Cooling? CSP uses oil for heat transfer, and it's a closed loop.
Can't the sand blow off the mirrors? CSP mirrors can be titled and perhaps rotated so the sand falls off.
VCat2006 2 years ago
Water is the only way they can wash the mirrors... lots of water. Understand the power generating technology: at 600 to 800 gallons per mW cooling water requirement they are a water hog.
yangzone 2 years ago
It's a reminder of the bio-diesel scam: to help power millions of trucks and trains we are to burn (renewable?) top soil in the engines!!!
yangzone 2 years ago
Same thing they are already doing, except the top soil is millions of years old.
VCat2006 2 years ago
Top soil is for growing food. Previously it has not been burned for transport (unless maybe using wood in steam driven trains 2 centuries ago?) With tens of thousands of children dying of starvation every day anyone who would plan to use topsoil to power millions of trucks would be a very "disconnected" person. Top soil in the US was commonly reproted at 18" in the 1800's and now is at an average of 8". *Careful* use of diesel oil is a good way to power trucks and trains.
yangzone 2 years ago
@yangzone disconnected = evil
baaasil 1 year ago
They consume that much water? What's your source?
VCat2006 2 years ago
I cannot put in URL's here - they get filtered. So fix these by changing the DOTs to the usual format:
en.wikipediaDOTORG/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy Scroll way down to: "Use Of Water"
Check out:
nytimesDOTCOM/2009/09/30/business/energy-environment/30water.html
yangzone 2 years ago
And if you get "Page does not Exist" go up to the address bar and remove any %20 that are in the address.
yangzone 2 years ago
"BrightSource Energys dry-cooled Ivanpah project in Southern California would consume an estimated 25 million gallons a year, mainly to wash mirrors." - NYT
Can't they use dusters instead?
VCat2006 2 years ago
Yes they could get the water consumption down from an annual 1.3Bn gallons for this type of solar farm to 25 million gallons just for washing (the mirrors have to be very clean - tied to efficiency.) But to do this they will have to use fans for cooling - electric fans juicy fans so there goes the efficiency again. but maybe the only way out for these plants. . Btw, 25 million, while a big savings, and nearly a 50th of the water cooling requirement, is still close to 70,000 gallons per day!
yangzone 2 years ago
It powers 140,000 homes, so that's half a gallon (1.9 liter) per home. How many minutes of showering/flushing is that? How much do alternatives use?
VCat2006 2 years ago 3
And solar chimneys can replace fans.
VCat2006 2 years ago
1.9liter per home per day is a lot out in a desert area... where water is already in short supply... and (near) where growers like to irrigate food for (solar) ripening and easy (solar = dry) harvest... good luck with it...
when put into practice, ideas like solar chimneys tend to deliver up new challenges... though they promise startling results... an amazing phenomenon...
yangzone 2 years ago
Do people really need all that drinkable water to flush away their pee? If they pee on the crops, they save on water AND fertilizer!
"when put into practice, ideas like solar chimneys tend to deliver up new challenges... though they promise startling results..."
If you had spent a few minutes on Google, you'd have learned that solar chimneys have been in use for thousands of years. Lazy people like you are depleting this world.
VCat2006 2 years ago
The question is do YOU really need all that water to flush away YOUR pee? Peeing on crops is probably going to get you in trouble for trespassing and endangering public health.
yangzone 2 years ago
I don't, but i have plenty of water and money so a dual flush toilet isn't needed for me.
Peeing on crops is more common than you'd think. Look it up.
VCat2006 2 years ago
And look at the hype in the above vid... all about attracting investors.... and hiding the truth... even the term dry-cooling is misleading... it's not dry-coolng, it's cooling using electricity!
yangzone 2 years ago
power stations generally use huge amounts of water... their cooling towers are often visible for miles around...
yangzone 2 years ago
Surely their waste heat can be used for something.
VCat2006 2 years ago
I was referring to solar chimneys in the context of being used as a source that can help replace non-renewable energy systems.
yangzone 2 years ago
Alright. People waving fans are renewable too. Unless they burn oil, drive animals to extinction, and turn land into desert. I suppose potential Roman fan-wavers didn't do that.
VCat2006 2 years ago
So electricity is wet? If it doesn't drink, it's called "dry".
VCat2006 2 years ago
The term "dry cooling" could infer that is is an viable alternative to wet cooling. What s meant by dry cooling is that power generated by the system has to be used to cool the system... a very big efficiency compromise.
yangzone 2 years ago
It IS a viable alternative. It appears you fail at remembering things more than 24 hours.
VCat2006 2 years ago
Again there is a misunderstanding. At todays energy prices "dry-cooled" solar thermal is not attractive. Developers are pulling out of projects because they are unable to get water rights. Dry cooled projects will appear... but are not as attractive.
yangzone 2 years ago
I pay for 100% renewable power. It's too bad you can't afford that.
VCat2006 2 years ago
It really is magnanimous of you to even consider exchanging ideas with a person who is "lazy" and a prone to failure. Thank you for your patience.
yangzone 2 years ago
wonder if all these solar power projects will change the earth's natural climate
heoquayhp 2 years ago
10 mw? keep going you got another 590mw to go before it will replace the others
fpvshitsonhsv 2 years ago
@fpvshitsonhsv every one is thumbing that comment down but you've got a good point. there is a long way to go until we can completely transfer over, but this hopefully will be the beggining of investment of time research and money to see whether this type of power is a viable solution to an ever growing problem
MightyBobzilla 2 years ago
10 MW is enough for my house.
VCat2006 2 years ago
No problem then tell them to set one up for your house and you can pay the bill.The price it will cost to build that thing you would never pay it back in your life time
fpvshitsonhsv 2 years ago
I would never use so much power either.
I do, however, get the power i use from renewable resources.
VCat2006 2 years ago
oleeeee mi pueblo saliendo por la BBC qe artee!!!
eRSaNluka19 2 years ago
forget about eficiency, nuclear energy is high structured investment and gives power to single hand that makes monopolistic or oligipolistic control on energy. but, small structured solar energy gives people energy freedom, not any kind of dependencency. and that is very very crucial for more free world.
vanmemet 2 years ago 29
@vanmemet and nuclear causes leukemia.
timeforchange . org / nuclear-power-station-causing-cancer-leukemia
trandoductin 1 year ago
@vanmemet Amen Brother.
xrockthe40ozx 1 year ago
@vanmemet: decentralization's not only necessary for this kind of energy. we know that from p2p networks where there are leechers, seeders and peers. nearly everybody being able to transform energy to scales that are useful for us humans as well as being connected in an energy cloud gives maximum stability and maximum independence for nearly every single household.
screezwiitz 10 months ago
It is a mixed bag to get where we may need to go. A family house would combine, some sort of Solar, Wind, and Biodigester for the homes organic waste- that would give you methane. The methane is used to cook and heat. Energy storage would be in Methane Tank and Batteries/Compressed air.
Big citys and heavy industry= nuclear source, no greener way to get the concentrated power needed.
aloisgault 8 months ago
Comment removed
carmenlee87 2 years ago
Wow! It only produces 1/100th of the amount of power generated by a nuclear power station and occupies 10 times the amount of space. I can't wait until all of the mountain tops are cleared and filled with these industrial eye sores. All so we can produce half of the amount of power we need.
jasmine547 2 years ago
The "lack of space" argument coming from the nuclear lobby is really rather silly. Look at a google map sometime. I can find you a million square miles in Australia without a single inhabitant, and the Sahara creeps into the Sahel by a mile a year across a four thousand mile front. And further, the area notionally needed to power the United states at the efficiency of one of these units occupies an area less than 1/16th that of Arizona. The energy payback on these rigs leaves nuclear for dead.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago 3
1/16th the size of Arizona! Thats a hell of a lot of space! I rest my case. How much environmental impact do you think that will have. How many ecosystems will that disturb. How many resources will be needed to mine the raw materials, build processing and manufacturing plants to create this monster.? How much industrial waste will be produced? What about maintenance? How will you distribute the power equally on the grid across the U.S from the source?
jasmine547 2 years ago
Enviro impact: Less than the present coal/gas system. Area used is similar to the area we presently mine for coal and uranium, but in less sensitive areas. The materials can be supplied from existing infrastructure. Toxic waste from steel and glass? No exotic or high energy materials, I can send a link to an economic assessment if you want to know about maintenance, these have been operating since 1986. We already have a grid for transmission, and they can be added to existing steam plant.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
really good technology
but to those who want to build a lot of them in sahara. these power stations are steam turbines like any other conventional power station and work better when the air is cold. sahara is way to hot to have an efficient station.
the best place to build them would be at the top of mountains above clouds and in cold air.
enicao 2 years ago
Liquid -> gas of water works better at higher temperatures and lower pressure, so only the pressure would help when building it on top of a mountain.
VCat2006 2 years ago
the maximal efficiency of a steam power plant depends on the temperature of the steam at the intake of the turbine (the higher the better) and the outside air temperature (the lower the better)
any power plant using heat produce less power on a hot day than on a cold day.
for example your car will go a bit faster on a cold day than on a really hot day
enicao 2 years ago
Prove it. The cooling part of a steam engine tends to only cool to 100 degrees Celsius. That's well above the climate temperature of most places on Earth. If you need faster cooling, just use a bigger water supply for the pump so it has more time to radiate waste heat.
VCat2006 2 years ago
Comment removed
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
Now that's 21st century technology!
ejnewkes 2 years ago 2
thx4added.
zebramol 2 years ago
Billions of mirrors (with thermal heat reservoirs), millions of turbines (with mechanical storage, and other renewable energy...
Equals...
a way out of the global economic disaster, GW and post oil death !!! NO EXCUSE FOR POVERTY CONDITIONS AND WAR!
fireofenergy 2 years ago
Limited living space and jealous gods are all the excuses needed for war.
VCat2006 2 years ago
don't forget the huge areas dug up to find uranium and all the co2 used to extract and deliverer it to the station plus area needed to store spent materials
potterscotter 2 years ago
Exactly right, "apples with apples" needs the whole life-cycle looked at. The difference is that NIMBYs in the States buy purified uranium ores for their geographically small nuclear power stations, and not the mess that comes with it, nor the CO2 that refined it. The epic open-cut mines are here in Australia, but wait...that isn't in their backyard, so it doesn't count, does it?
Let someone else hold the whip, just buy the cotton...
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
Insignificant compared to the resources and space needed for this.
jasmine547 2 years ago
Care to justify this statement? Have you actually looked at the energy and material balance? I have and have come to no such conclusion.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
No justification is necessary. It is a fact that no solar unit can consistently produce 1900 megawatts an hour, every hour, 24 hours a day on a space less than 10 acres period. The nuclear power plant that I used to work at could do this. If you want to turn half of your country into a giant industrial power plant to power 2000 homes. Go ahead, I will stick with nuclear fission until nuclear fusion technology is developed.
jasmine547 2 years ago
Nevada Solar One: 400 American survey acres generating 64 MW. At continuous use of 2,000 watt per home, 64 MW powers 32,000 homes. That's 25 acres for 2000 homes. A little more if you want consistent power from molten salts and other energy carriers that aren't as unhealthy as fission fuel.
VCat2006 2 years ago 2
North Anna units 1 and 2 located in mineral va. Each generate about 980 megawatts each, 24 hours a day on about 15 acres of land. A far cry from 64 megawatts.
jasmine547 2 years ago
You didn't count the specialized mining, refining, and disposal area use; and the generator isn't going to be built on a ship or in the middle of a city (solar, wind, and water power generators can, though).
VCat2006 2 years ago
right they forget to add in the truck drivers the pipe lines the helicopter to fly the people out in the ocean and also the doctor bills and what else did they forget?
ncbookz 2 years ago
$400 - $1000 per gallon in afganistan to buy 800,000 gallons of gasoline
PER DAY FOR THE USA MILITARY FOR OIL AND DON'T FORGET O.I.L. (OPERATION IRAQ LIBERATION )
rwsandham 2 years ago
i'll take the waste products of Nevada Solar One in my backyard Jasmine if you'll take the waste of North Anna units 1 OR 2 in yours
bellinghammond 2 years ago 8
Wow all that space just for 2000 homes and you are the one calling the nuclear industry impractical.
Darkwizzrobe 2 years ago
1 "Half (my) country" is bunk. in Australia's case, one 20th of 1percent, less area than is covered by coal mines now.
2. not every place needs 2GW in the one place! Distributed generation is better in many cases, less Tx and Dx losses too.
3. Constant output: here in summer, and in Southern USA too, the load varies greatly. Air Con a major component. Solar follows this load. Nuclear is less efficient at part load. Constant output is a straw man, especially in large grid contexts.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
Nuclear power plants never operate at partial load. They are the stabilizing element for the grid. Where I am located they provide about 33% of the total output. If additional power is needed at peak times then a coal, gas, or hydro unit is brought online. Have you ever worked at a power plant?
jasmine547 2 years ago
No, but I have worked for the state office of energy, and spent 8 hours a day with the outputs of the national grid monitors. I have a science degree in energy management, and am pursuing a masters by research in waste heat recovery. I presently work for a mining engineering consultancy. My father in law worked at a thermal power station for 26 years, and I know what makes em tick. And I wouldn't call inflexible baseload a stabilizing effect, frequency control needs dispatchable power.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
Oh my! Our argument is over, I must submit to your greatness. You actually have documents hanging on your wall telling all who see them that you are smart. You actually knew someone that worked in a power plant. And you even had a job working as a government bureaucrat. I can only bask in your reflected glory. You are 100% right. Everyone please forgive me for wasting time commenting in this forum.
jasmine547 2 years ago
C'mon, don't be like that.
You suggested that I couldn't know about grid control because I hadn't worked in a power plant. But study is not a less legitimate way of learning, surely? Don't engineers go to school in the USA?
I maintain the objection that you are unwilling to answer: Nuclear is poor at following load, and renewables have a legitimate place supplying a sizable percentage of the supplies mix.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
I agree, nuclear is poor at following the load, that is why they are not used in that capacity. They are used to provide a stable, economical, and profitable source of power to the electrical grid. If frequency drags then a hydro, coal, or in your case solar unit can be brought on line. If demand drops then the extra power produced is sold elsewhere. This is how a power company stays in buisiness.
jasmine547 2 years ago
Base load is not a straw man argument. We have enough fuel in Uranium Plutonium and especially Thorium to meet our needs for hundreds of thousands of years.
Darkwizzrobe 2 years ago
1. Uranium: Nonsense. Look at how much U235 we have, its not large compared to global energy use. 2. Plutonium: Sure, if we put breeder reactors all over the place, this extends the nuclear fuel available massively. Do you really want the global economy based on plutonium? Even in countries that have a new name every year?
3. Thorium: AMEN! bring it. But how many commercial Thorium reactors are operating? Hell, how many are 'planned'?
theGreenChesterfield 2 years ago
Its not really all that much.
Darkwizzrobe 2 years ago
lol this guy sounds like one of those guys that they go this thing some how some way can be don lol
sodia1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Bigger and Bigger.
Small is better.
Windpower is much more better.
I think is it a commercial for very old technologie
CrixiusBretten 3 years ago
wind power is unreliable because it's dependent to the climate: it's not always windy, you know! furthermore the wind should reach a certain speed to make the windmills effective power generators.
hogo1502 3 years ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
Please take a look at my site about free energie wind.
CrixiusBretten 3 years ago
It's not always sunny either. Seville has 2898 hours of sun per year, which is 30% of the time. But not every sunny hour is intense enough to produce the 11MW energy in the tower (e.g. dusk, dawn, winter). It's "load-factor" will therefore be lower than 30% (around 20-25% for Seville). Depending on location, wind turbine load factor is 20-40%. In all this 11MW tower powers 6000 homes. 11 MW of wind turbines power 11000 homes.
honeyrummer 3 years ago
Wrong. This isn't PV solar, where the rated output is a function of Peak capacity multiplied by annual peak daylight hours equivalent.
Its rating is determined by the output of the steam turbine: you can scale the heat storage capacity and the collector area so that its running at its rated capacity round the clock or following the load profile. Its not intermittent like wind, in that sense: with storage it's dispatchable power.
And Generators have Capacity factors, not Load factors, BTW
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
Regarding reliability: it's about location. A solar tower in the Sahara will have a much more reliable production than one near London. An offshore wind farm near Scotland will have a more reliable production than one near Rome.
honeyrummer 3 years ago
Well, I tend to disagree with both of you. While I think solar energy is a great power source, it should not exclude the use of other renewable energies, e.g. wind or water power. Now, it is right that wind is not always available, but that goes for sunlight aswell. Where I live, we have a huge solar collector field, but several wind turbines, too. The collectors are placed here, in the dale, while the windmills stand on top of a hill, wehere there are nice, strong winds every day.
TehBlackFox 3 years ago
Who on Earth suggested that we exclude anything? I'm all for wind, solar, geothermal, and even the safer types of nuclear in stable countries.
I dont know why people think that praising one technology's potential implies a denigration of others. It all beats hell out of coal and oil, and each fills a part of the demand curve well.
theGreenChesterfield 2 years ago
Well spoken, I agree completely.
Oh and btw, Thorium reactors are a really great idea, though it's doubtful, whether they'll get the proper attention, at least in the next years to come.
Another technology (which is even less probable to be widely used, anytime soon) I have always been fascinated with, is nuclear fusion.
I know, at the moment the test reactors are more enegry sinks than sources and it's a loooooong way to go, but I'm sure we'll get it to work, eventually.
TehBlackFox 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is the awesome! I live in Arizona and we can have these EVERYWHERE! Oh yeah, global warming, or atleast the idea that humans are causing it, is the greatest, most hyped up, false idea ever discussed in human history.
brian8793 3 years ago
"humans are causing it, is the greatest, most hyped up, false idea ever discussed in human history."
humans release gases that trap the heat inside earth. and particulates reflect sun rays that can make winters colder. isnt this enough to show that global warming can happen?
you pro pollution people are getting annoying. saying that global warming doesnt exists cause its not hotter, is like saying that cell phones wont give you a tumor only cause you dont have one yet.
HolySpringRolls 3 years ago
Cell phones don't cause tumors
jasmine547 2 years ago
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
jasmine547 2 years ago
I am happy to supply you with as much evidence you require, but it is beyond what one can put in a 500 character box. Can you narrow it down a little for me? The resource argument I can address with existing research, as the embodied energy has been calculated by an number of good studies. How much land is too much is another question: but have you seen a desert lately? I live on a continent that is mostly desert, and find it hard to fret about using 0.2% of it for power generation.
brutusofbadgerfarm 2 years ago
We can go back an forth on this issue forever. The fact is it is an impractical means of producing large amounts of energy. When a solar plant can consistently produce 1900 megawatts everyday 24/7 on a space less than 10 acres than it will be a viable competitor to nuclear. If you live in a desert go for it. But it will not work in a country like France. That is why 95% of their power is from nuclear. With no greenhouse gases or coal mining.
jasmine547 2 years ago
No greenhouse gases? Does all the uranium mining and disposal work on recent plants, other forms of solar power, or uranium sources that will be depleted in 60 years or so?
VCat2006 2 years ago
Don't think uranium is going to be depleted in 60 years. Plus, it fissions into plutonium 239, another fissionable fuel.
jasmine547 2 years ago
you know in the late 70's when we stopped using uranium, you know bought all this stuff ? you guessed it the Oil Companys. They will still own us.
joemc111 2 years ago
So all the mining and production of materials for wind turbines and solar cells and all the concrete these projects require take no greenhouse gases not to mention the transportation and land that has to be used for such little gain.
Darkwizzrobe 2 years ago
Running windmills produce power without having to mine, transport, and purify the last remaining radioactive metal for it. Broken blades can be recycled more easily than radioactive waste.
VCat2006 2 years ago
I have read so many articles of Spain's push towards renewable energy. They are one of the largest producers of wind turbine generated electricity. They have huge plans to add more wind farms. Go Spain! Show the world!
SBha30 3 years ago 7
put the huge one in the sahara, and then hook it up to a tesla tower so i can send the energy all over the world!!!
boxa888 3 years ago
it seems that everyone on this video is yodeling instead of explaining
dudebot09 3 years ago