Melty Blood ACTress Again - Ryougi Shiki vs. Nanaya Shiki (Shiki fight part 1)

[Yohko86]

There's simply no denying it.........

this battle HAD to happen.

[KakuKachoO]

Really... Not even one air combo? It's not that hard to learn it

[mentaldagger]

@KakuKachoO I already learned it, this is a really old video.

[Turkisshh2]

not only Maaya Sakamoto... try listening closely to the music as well - KnK movies OST remake, GROOVY

[SouthernRiprey]

The theme that plays in the video is a dead give-away to who's having the upper hand. I MEAN LOOK AT IT, SHIKI IS IN SHIKI'S REALM (Bamboo Forest, Pun intended.) :DD

[puyokiba]

usalo con luna llena bola, si no no lo bajas mas, ryougi se la banca las combos

[TheStrangeN]

Ryougi is freaking relentless if you choose half moon, my new favorite, right next to Sion and Tohno.

[ICCraider]

if it was tohno shiki he wud win in no time.The nanaya shiki in this game sux ass

the dude even lost to hisui in this video ?v=kwRilYfkdNU

[MissAnimeFreak513]

@ICCraider The nanaya shiki is a CPU

[LucarioluMangaArt]

Nanaya Shiki ftwwww

[Itsnameisgundam]

I like dude

[XBacon]

@andrewzzang the novel series is Kara no Kyoukai, "Garden of Sinners" is the films' subtitles.

[JRC3034]

A girl Shiki? With the same powers? o_O

[mentaldagger]

@JRC3034 In similarities, kinda yea. By specifics, no.

[Wurzelknecht]

@JRC3034 Yes she's from Kara no Kyoukai, an early work from the guy who did Tsukihime. The male Shiki from Tsukihime actually looks the same as the female Shiki's boyfriend Kokuto Mikiya. I think the power difference is that Ryougi Shiki can control her eyes and seems to be able to switch them on and off as she likes while Tohno/Nanaya Shiki has to wear his glasses (crafted by another Kara no Kyoukai character btw.) to shut them down and also risks his health when he uses them.

[SlickDX536]

@Wurzelknecht actually, according to the Type-Moon wiki, contrary to popular belief, Ryougi's MEoDP are permanently active... apparently. the difference between them was that Ryougi doesn't have any physical strain from it.

[Wurzelknecht]

@SlickDX536 really? didn't know that. well I only saw the Kara no Kyoukai movies but never read the novels so it always looked like she could turn them on and off at will.

[danimeman]

Ps2 emulator?

[mentaldagger]

@danimeman yes

[truearea53]

I vote for Ryougi Shiki for shes my num#1 ultimate fav death eye warrier and Shiki Tohno 2nd :D

[flik221]

i was nostalgia-ing out on kara no kyoukai clips and came across this...looks badass. <3 shiki.

[mentaldagger]

No, this is the place where Ryougi's friend was killed by her, who looks closely like Tohno. Tohno isn't in this story, but Aoko's sister is.

[XBacon]

@mentaldagger Mikiya was not killed, what are you talking about?

[mentaldagger]

@XBacon I didn't say that, someone else did. I was just replying.

[XBacon]

@mentaldagger > this is the place where Ryougi's friend was killed by her

Sure you didn't? oh well whatever, just wanted to point that out.

[mentaldagger]

@XBacon O that comment..I was just referring to when Mikiya was stabbed in the heart in the past by the male Ryougi personality in the first movies. Nothing big.

[XBacon]

@mentaldagger ...uh, he wasn't stabbed either. Did you read/watch Murder Study part 2?

[mentaldagger]

@XBacon I'm just looking back at the scene right now in movie 2, my bad, it wasn't a stab, it was a cut. And they just left it at the knife at his throat while Ryougi was saying she wanted to kill him, which made me assume she did, while transitioning back to the present scene.

[XBacon]

@mentaldagger heh, I see. :)

[LonElyBoyz1000]

and is this the place in kara no kyoukai where the male shiki was killed??? it has the same theme song as kara no kyoukai...

[LonElyBoyz1000]

both are chokushi no magan users

[zerock07]

two noobs playing -.-

[4CzNs]

@zerock07 Actually, it's the CPU. 

[1CoolDudeMe]

So brutal.

[mentaldagger]

@Evilsmoke333 Crescent Moon Style is similar to that of the ACT Cadenza game. Half Moon and Full Moon have their own set of moves, but Full Moon is a bit more "all out" on skills and Half Moon is more restricted and requires more combos instead.

[mentaldagger]

@innerguardianXIII Just an exclusive Type Moon guest.

[EmperorLjas]

@innerguardianXIII Expanding on mentaldagger's answer, Kara no Kyoukai is regarded as being set in an alternate parallel universe to Nasu's other works, which basically makes KnK bonus material that will probably never see a sequel.

[Levantez]

@innerguardianXIII Most of TYPE MOON products are set in the same universe.

Ryougi Shiki's mentor and Aoko are sister.

[ironragnarok]

@innerguardianXIII They both take place in the same world, but their paths just don't cross.

[link2link8]

@innerguardianXIII Aozaki Touko from kara no kyoukai is the sister to Aozaki Aoko Tsukihime, in the movies Aozaki Aoko appears in the seventh movie hidden up when talking about shiki, so in some way they are in the same universe.

[DjangoEX]

@link2link8 When does Aoko appear in kara no kyoukai movies?!

[WhatCaMaHoZit]

I just ordered this game, and theres something I would like to know:

Ryougi Shiki...is she availble straight away, or do I have to unlock her? If so, How?

[mentaldagger]

@WhatCaMaHoZit She's already availible

[cadejo]

This type of conversation is fun, Nasu said Ryougi is superior to any incarnation of Tohno to be more accurate Nasu said the most powerful characters in the TYPE-MOON (excluding servants) are as follows:

1. Arcueid Brunestud

2. "Ryougi Shiki"

3. Primordial demons

[itoumakoto1980]

ryougi is the best.. period

[gummyocto]

I had a feeling Shiki would win...

[SouthernRiprey]

@gummyocto THE QUESTION YOU FACE IS, WHICH SHIKI WILL WIN~

[DaBigX26]

@SouthernRiprey the answer is OBVIOUSLY the cool shiki BD

[taki255]

i wanted ryougi to win just coz she's hot

[AnimeNikkaJamal]

Tohno/Nanaya doesn't necessarily have a speed advantage at all. In fact, Ryougi creates sonic booms when she's NOT serious. Araya dodged a bullet after it was fired; Ryougi easily outmanuvers him, and her slashes are faster than he can even SEE.

If any version of Tohno can fairly vs Ryougi in-universe, it would be Satsujinki. And I'm only saying 1st Ryougi, not the 3rd one that haxes the nasuverse and kills deities, cuz she's pretty much unbeatable barring Types.

[JakeFuyou]

Wow, nice finish, though I admit I wanted Ryougi to win. Her movements are very cool.

[raidarkangel]

Ryougi Shiki has eyes that can pretty much kill anything that exist and has alot of battle experience. Nanaya eyes are able to kill anything physical and has speed and athletic ablilities that comes from his genes. When it comes down to who will win its literally all about who is faster since they have to make contact with the person to kill them. Which is why nanaya would probaly win because hes far faster although ryougi can kill distance. But tohno would get his ass kicked by ryougi however.

[KAGEYA7]

どっちもあまり上手くない

[shane12435]

if ryougi had a sword this would be over in 3 seconds :p

[NeutralDrow]

She uses a lot of really wide, sweeping knife strikes compared to Tohno or Nanaya, doesn't she?

[mentaldagger]

@NeutralDrow Pretty much. She doesn't have any shanking moves like the Tohnos.

[blastoise01]

I hope this game get a pc version cause i have melty blood act cadenza ver b but i wanna play as ryougi shiki!!!

[IluvVideogames]

I bet 99.9% of melty blood players at evo 2k10 are gonna be japanese.

[xyanide1986]

I like how they used the moves and visual FX you see in the kara no kyoukai movies, a revamped song from the OST is there too.

[MakotoTsuguri]

I've been wondering a lot about Ryougi Shiki.I noticed she's the protagonist of her own anime, but is she related to Tohno in any way or is she a guest character in this game?

[mentaldagger]

@MakotoTsuguri She's a guest character exclusive to this game's version.

[StevoMcEmo332]

@MakotoTsuguri only relation i know of is that Ryuogi and Nanaya are both branches of a demon slaying clan of some sort.

[chiwiwiwi]

@StevoMcEmo332 Ryougi has Toko Aozaki, and Shiki Tohno has Aoko Aozaki... i guess that's a relation.. heheheh..

[ShadowOfLight3000]

@StevoMcEmo332 Ryougi's not from the Nanaya clan... I think.

Anyway, that was an awesome battle especially the last few seconds. God I was biting my nails for Nanaya to pull a miracle victory.

[StevoMcEmo332]

@ShadowOfLight3000 no she is not, Tohno Shiki is though, and Ryougi is another demon slayer clan, at least according to what i read in one of the games.

[xXShinzouXx]

@6headshot9 If you are saying Ryougi has no breasts, then you might offend her female personality, and be killed by her :(

[xyanide1986]

@xXShinzouXx

She only kills you if she loves you.

[xRaize9593x]

this game is gonna e at evo

[Isthatsimple]

I would like from Type-Moon world to also see in Melty Blood some FSN - I know they don't mix that well, but Tohsaka Rin & Emiya Shirou combo character like Kohaku & Hisui could be a killer.

[Cypher0120]

Ryougi's third personality - God. Okay, Akasha but still....

[shinobi300]

thsi is the best knife iv seen in a while

[Djenkov]

in real match nanaya will win:

1-he is acting much cooler than ryougi

2-he is male(that alone is a HUGE ADVANTAGE...this even beats the mystic eyes )

[xXShinzouXx]

Ryougi Shiki - She has breasts, so she automatically wins by default.

[mentaldagger]

lol. I haven't heard that one yet. And yet it's true.

[risenz08]

@xXShinzouXx

Huh? What does her breast even have to do with combat battle? Is there any important aspects about it, and if there is could explain it to me why she'll because she has one (of course all FEMALES have one xD)?

[xXShinzouXx]

@risenz08 It refers to a demotivational picture. It was something like "Boobs: She has them, so you lose" or something like that lol. In actual combat it doesn't matter, unless you're strangely perverted :(

Anyways, a hot boob wielding knife touting female (Am I getting those mixed up?) that can use Mystics Eyes of Death Perception is autowin in my book.

[risenz08]

@xXShinzouXx

Ah, I see. So it's like her boobs is somewhat like a cheering squad? That's only on my opinion and now I see why Arcueid wins over Tohno Shiki in terms of close combat on some manga I read. So females that has boobs will some how win. WOW!

[fibereco]

they should make an anime out of the fight between Nanaya Shiki & Ryougi Shiki. that would an insane battle.

I better in would end Nanaya would end up on top, Ryougi Shiki's blade won't even scratch the even the surface of Nanaya Shiki Death lines, Nanaya's skills of assassination are too much

[shabalabadingdong]

Ryougi Shiki doesn't need to touch Nanaya.

Her 3rd personality will erase Nanaya from reality. >.>

[parklangparklang]

I wouldn't say that as Ryougi family are true specialist of close combat with their power of self-suggestion,

[nitakappa]

They are frail humans, they do not need to hit LINES to end the battle, they can decapitate the other just as easily.

And in pure physical attributes, Ryougi obviously wins.

Sorry to rain on the fanboy tirade.

[Frozeninmymind]

@nitakappa

But that's also a fan thing. In which, the Nanaya's were actually alot physically better. The Ryougi and Nanaya families never really fought, but the Nanayas were assasin through skill, and Ryougi's through self-suggestion. Overall, i also think that Nanaya would win, he's faster then the normal Ryougi, and who cares if Ryougi's third personality can change existance, there's no guarantee that it'll come out. From what I've seen, Nanaya's also alot less wasteful with his movements

[nitakappa]

Who said anything about changing reality or whatnot? Forget lines, forget Akasha.

What Ryougi usually does physically exceeds what Shiki does. She is also very heavily trained while Nanaya boy works with instinct and the body made of INCEST. Finally, Ryougi works mostly with straight-up fighting while Nanaya's are more of the 'sneak around till I lop head suddenly' guys.

In a vs fight, Ryougi has obvious advantage. She will not win every time, but obvious advantage is obvious.

[Frozeninmymind]

You realise litterally everytime we've ever seen Nanaya come out, he's killed hundreds, right? I'm not quite sure what Ryougi does, but even if Nanaya's skill is discerned from incest, I wouldn't say that Ryougi has the hands down advantage physically. Nanaya's wiped out some pretty hectic guys without taking a scratch. And Nanaya's body only works through instinct when he takes OVER Tohno's. Nanaya himself is just crazy. And NO Nanaya has ever been 'sneak around' from what I've read.

[nitakappa]

...Hundreds?No. What are you smoking? Nanaya and Tohno share the same body, he can't magically jump 20 ft more than Shiki can etc. So, basing it on Tsukihime and Kagetsu Tohya, while having crazy reflexes and wall-jumping, it does not match skyscraper hoping. And nobody would call that 'without a scratch'. 95% of the fights he gets maimed.

For 'ultimate sneak attacks', read Tsukihime 2 prologues, aka Satsujinki.

[Frozeninmymind]

In melty blood, and Kogetsu Tohya, Nanaya has his own body, and Tsukihime 2 was an april's fools, not real. Satsujinki is a suggested version of Shiki, not guaranteed. Nrvsqr chaos had 666 bodies, and Nanaya managed to kill at least half of them before Nrvsqr himself. And even without his own body, in several routes (*cough* Akiha's *cough*) He can miraculously move faster then the eye can see when Tohno can't. And Nanaya comes OUT when Tohno gets maimed, Nanaya never actually gets maimed.

[Frozeninmymind]

And i must ask, who mentioned SkyScrapper hoping? Far as i know, not even Ryougi does that one. I'll admit that it'd be close, but Ryougi would not just have the hands down advantage unless she had a katana, and even then, if we remove their eyes, it'd be REALLY close.

[nitakappa]

Tsukihime 2 prologues weere not an april fool's. Rather a sneak peak in Arcueid route follow-up. Nobody said it's 'ONLY OUTCOME', it's a suggestion of what Shiki could become (a much more badass version)

Kohaku route bad end, while he moves faster than Akiha, a person not USED or conditioned to fighting, can follow, he ends up getting two of his limbs BURNED in order to cut her head.

Also, Nero has exactly 560 beasts left before he does his final attack.

[nitakappa]

Nanaya and Tohno have the same physical abilities, it's the same person. He does not magically get stronger.

And even with their eyes, thwy are still frail humans who would die with one good hit or two, so irrelevant.

Ryougi has an edge in straight-up fighting, you exaggerating facts that people can read does not change the case.

Tohno boy is not supposed to be the greatest in up-front fighting either way, that's not his shtick.

[Frozeninmymind]

First off, we should really debate this elsewhere, youytube isn't the best place. And second off, we can't say they have the same physical abilities, as Nanaya in both Kogetsu and Melty is either the version of Shiki which never had the accident, which means he doesn't have the frail body, the embodiment of the rumours of a killer, or the version of Shiki he doesn't use. None of the three actually have any physical attachment to Tohno. Akiha had absorbed Roa, who was a seasoned fighter.

[Frozeninmymind]

It's true that up front fighting is not Tohno's style, but Nanaya fights completely differently in the first place. And although he doesn't magically get stronger, it is shown he gets alot more athletic, and shows more characteristics of the nanaya's. Tohno using Nanaya suddenly gets alot faster, it's even said he moves faster then any human can move in Tsukihime (Though, it is Tohno's own opinion) Ryougi has an advantage mainly from their eyes, but remove it, then Nanaya and Ryougi are equal.

[Frozeninmymind]

Admittedly though, if we add the eyes, Ryougi has the hands down advantage against Nanaya, since Nanaya merely has Shiki's original 'pure eyes' instead of Mystic Eyes. Tsukihime 2 was an april's fools,and Satsukijinki was a 'potential Shiki' that they were contemplating and decided to put into it. In which, I doubt that Ryougi would actually have the hands down advantage agaisnt Satsujinki either.

[nitakappa]

The advantage from the eyes is moot since if you slice the NECK a bit, they both die.They are not regenerating vampires. Unless you go to the extent of Ryougi killing 'the future and distance', which we do not account anyway. Nanaya does not move faster than everyone in Tsukihime (aka, as in sprinting and pure speed, compared to SUPENATURAL GUYS Like vampires, just has reflexes and instincts to avoid shit).And Type Moon does April Fool's on April first, not on works released on different dates.

[Frozeninmymind]

I know he doesn't move faster then everyone, i pointed out humans, but as far as I know Ryougi doesn't move faster then supernatural people either. I'd say they're about at the same speed. And I thought Tsukihime 2 was released on April's Fools, if not, then either way, it was just an experiment I think. Anyways, all i've been saying this whole time is that Ryougi doesn't have the hands down advantage on Nanaya. Definetly on Tohno, but Nanaya is on a whole different league to Tohno.

[nitakappa]

The texts were not released on April Fools. He obviously had not planned to release Tsukihime 2 early on, just gave an idea of arc route follow-up. And that's for Satujinki. I dunno why you reject an exhibition of a STRONGER Tohno, that would help your argument. Nanaya is a dedicated mindset of killing on the same body Tohno has. You overestimate what he can do over Tohno for little reason. It's not a Super Sayan power-up.

[nitakappa]

And regardless of same physical attributes, Ryougi ACTIVELY trained and fought much more. Experience alone wins this. Even the author has attributed physical stats that would allow her in 'serious mode' to fight defensively against Servants. Nanaya boy straight-up is at a disadvantage. He is an assassin, not a killer. Dunno what your hard-on is to insist otherwise. Also, do read Kagetsu Tohya.

[Frozeninmymind]

I plan to read Kagetsu. Just trying to find the english patch. And Satsujinki has little to do with the argument, which is why I don't use him. My argument is for Nanaya, not Tohno, or Satsu. My hard on insist is just cause i'm sick of the Ryougi wins thing. And i'm not saying it's like a Supsaiyan power-up, but he is alot better then Tohno himself. Nanaya may be an assasin, but he is a skilled knife fighter, and Ryougi generally uses a Knife from what I've read.

[Frozeninmymind]

Perhaps if you gave Ryougi a different weapon, but so long as it's knives, neither should theoretically be able to get an advantage. Experienced or no, Nanaya does also have his reflexes, and is apparently able to take on Kouma in a straight on fight, which is basicaly suicide even for Kiri Nanaya. And still, even if you gave Ryougi a sword, i can't see her having the hands-down advantage. An advantage maybe from experience, but she'd still have a good run for her money at best.

[Frozeninmymind]

And i repeat, can we change where we're having the debate, or end it? Neither of us are really budging, and Youtube is too limiting to argue.

[nitakappa]

It's not really a debate, you just insist on false premises. And do go read Kagetsu Tohya and Google Tsukihime 2 segments or read a wiki to gain a better perspective. Because Nanaya Shiki and Nanaya Kiri (amnd the boy is not as good as his father in most regards) are at a SEVERE disadvantage against Kuma. Which is the whole point. 'Run on money' or 'may give trouble' does not change the actual advantage on pure physical abilities or combat experience and conditioning.

[kageyame]

Again, Ryogi was outright speedblitzing a guy that can dodge bullets (not aimdodging, acutally dodging the bullets), so yeah, she's a lot faster than Nanaya.

[hoylguy11]

Ryougi would win. theses are gods words from Nasu, he said that against nanaya tatari would be a easy win and against nanaya taking over tohno she could barely win using a knife, but a sure victory if using a katana, these are Nasu's words not mine

[fibereco]

lol I left this comment for 4 months & it start a war of words, but i would like to add my own opinion...

in terms on physical agility, speed alone & skill (exclude the Mystic eyes of death perception) Nanaya wins hands down, it's rooted in his DNA, Ryougi? well a lot of experience

put in eyes & theres the birth of a god in the name of Rougi Shiki who can now wipe out even concepts but that's just a load bull to add powers that strong so keep it sensible

my final opinion pretty even match ;-)

[mentaldagger]

Sounds the most obvious out of the whole fan jargon in this stockpile of nothing, lol.

[Maravilhalopes]

Actually, ryougi has almost perfect control over her eyes, as for tohno e cant completly control it, since he had to use the bandages over his eyes to try and control it. Physically, nanaya is a beast, enhanced speed, strengh and all that :D HOWEVER ryougi can use her own power, whatever they call it in the type/moon universe to enhance her speed (not to the extent has nanaya of course) and strengh. i think that ryougi being a more wise and calm fighter she can win anyday :D

[hoylguy11]

ryougi trained A LOT more than nanaya, who has little exp compared to ryougi, and even physically ryougi is superior than nanaya, nanaya can reach humans limit, but ryougi can go further than that

[shabalabadingdong]

Akasha. Ryougi 3rd personality. Power over reality. End match. The end. Nuff said.

Get it? I'd like to see how Nanaya would have ANY sort of chance against Araya Souren in the spiral building. Nanaya is probably just going to put up as much fight as Lio, and that's not much at all.

[PhantomCrimson]

nanaya shiki as in the one with chokushi or not?

nanaya(tohno) shiki will kill araya like nothing. Vampires(nero chaos) >>> human magus(araya souren). In terms of physical abilities nanaya is far superior to ryougi(faster and stronger), but in terms of overall strength well ryougi is stronger(if 3rd persona manifest, which is extremely unlikely). Heck nasu said ORT is stronger than kogen ryougi(3rd persona), although connected to akasha ryougi is still a human vessel thus still limited.

[shabalabadingdong]

If Ryougi Shiki had trouble seeing Araya's lines in the spiral building, what makes you think Nanaya can do any better? Give Ryougi Shiki a blade, and she'll win.

Limited or not, Akasha can do anything. Kill distance(teleport), kill time or some ridiculous things like that.

[PhantomCrimson]

and what made you think that's anything different than neros chaos?

limited by human vessel well duh. if she were limited she could have killed araya by staring at him (actualize his death). if she was truely limiteless, then ORT or enreis would have no chance against her, which is clearly no the case. if 3rd persona doesnt manifest(like 99.9999 to infinity of the times), ryougi is no match for satsujinki who can kill one of the 27 apostles like nothing.

[PhantomCrimson]

to continue from previous post. araya's lines are hard to cut cs of his age and nero chaos has lived way longer than araya. nero chaos's kekkai is just still a normal spell nothing compared to nero chaos' reality marble.

one last thing. according to nasu kogen is finite(merely the place with all the causes that naturally moves towards the effect, plus a record full of infos), thats why spells get weaker when more people draws on kogen's power.

[PhantomCrimson]

oops i mean araya's kekkai is still a normal spell while nero chaos has a reality marble. far higher in rank

[PhantomCrimson]

lastly, ryougi is limited because of her human perception. kogen is just a bunch of information, but it takes ryougi herself to sort them and understand them. Thus, she cant use everything at one time(demonstrated by ryougi having to search for info instead of just pop there it is). Basically kogen ryougi is far from the strongest in Type-moon universe(well nasu said ORT is the strongest and counter forces are almost unstoppable).

[shabalabadingdong]

Yet the point is that Nanaya cannot defeat Ryougi Shiki.

[PhantomCrimson]

ryougi's 3rd persona will not manifest in 99.999999999999999% of the time (she said herself that she has no interest because she is nothingness that she has no will). therefore, regular shiki vs nanaya(tohno) shiki will end up with a win for satsujinki(actually satsujinki will most likely beat future ryougi, just look at how he killed one of the 27 apostles in dark 6, killing gravity thats on the par of normal ryougi's perceptions).

[PhantomCrimson]

just look at ryougi and nanaya's opponents you can get a rough estimate of their physical strength and speed.

ryougi: asagami: ryougi's speed can barely dodge her mystic eyes, fail to kill her even with the cost of an arm(takes time to perceive her powers)

fuju kirei: easy win here especially with the artifical spirit grabbing arm

araya souren: toughest opponent for ryougi, easily killed after an unexpected 3rd persona awakening, but normal ryougi got owned.

shirazumi rio: trashed

[shabalabadingdong]

Barely dodge? You're making it sound like she struggled. Hell, you think Nanaya can do any better? And she didn't kill her. She killed the disease inside her.

I doubt Nanaya can take Fujou Kirei's mind control thing that made 8 people suicide by jumping off buildings. He doesn't have the mentality that Ryougi has. Easy death for Nanaya.

[shabalabadingdong]

Araya would have died outright normally, but had no lines as the entire building was him.

Nanaya would have the same problems. 3rd Persona just made his lines easy to see. Tatari would be no different.

[PhantomCrimson]

no araya has lines just thin. normal ryougi can see them when she concentrated. btw nanaya can see points far easier than normal. but thats beyond the point. chokushi itself cant do shit, since nanaya has better physical abilities(confirmed by the author), normal ryougi cant beat him. kogen ryougi relies on more than just physical abilites so it stupid to compare in the first place.

[PhantomCrimson]

kurogiri satsuki: couldnt kill, cs he also got kogen linked power(heck kurogiri could easily kill ryougi by telling her to suicide, and normal ryougi speed cant not kill him before he finish talking).

nanaya: arcueid: split into 17 piece before she even noticed anything

nero chaos(27 apostle #10):stabbed his dot

roa: stabbed his dot

tatari:stabbed his dot(he is a phenomenon like araya).

forest of Einnashe(27 apostle #7):satsujinki trashed it.

satsujinki outranks normal ryougi easily.

[shabalabadingdong]

What makes you so sure that normal Ryougi can't easily do what a confused Tohno did to Nero? Hell, Nero would probably die in half the time. Normal Ryougi never fought them, so you can never know. But judging from her skill with the Chokushi no Magan, and her skills at fighting, she'd kill most of them with ease.

Arcueid had her guard down, and was downright surprised, nothing special.

Nero Chaos only has 666 beasts in him. Easy to kill.

Roa, nothing special. Death eyes would kill him easily.

[PhantomCrimson]

nanaya killed all of these people cs he is physically strong. when his anti demonic impulse arises he is beyond human speed. normal ryougi cant match nanaya's speed. Chokushi itself does nothing, worthless, it depends on the user's physical abilities. ryougi's physical ability is far worse than nanaya from the fights.

and it is laughable to place human magi the same lvl as 27 dead apostles. araya has lines, ryougi just need to focus to see them(same as nanaya who just to focus to see dots).

[PhantomCrimson]

lol you down play some of the strongest characters in type-moon. 666 beasts are easy to kill? wtf you have you kill them all at the same time or stab nero's death point. ryougi shiki's eyes maybe enough to see it but the speed to actually stab him(hell no).

27 apostles are considered to be group that poses the greatest threat to the world. Roa is nothing special? what are you talking about? judging from ryougi's physical abilities(as described in novel) she cant move like nanaya.

[PhantomCrimson]

okay one last thing. nanaya is not confused, just awakened his blood. nero is surprised at his speed and assassination techs. why did you think arc even choose him as her partner if he sucks so much. chokushi isnt the only thing that arc was surprised at(she mentioned that he's killing ability and speed is better than any she has seen) nanaya would have killed kurogiri before he even finished talking(already demonstrated by dissecting arc).

[shabalabadingdong]

As I said before, Arc was surprised, and had her guard down. Ryougi could do the same thing in the same circumstances.

[shabalabadingdong]

Tohno Shiki couldn't kill Tatari before Arcueid used her Marble Phantasm.

Satsujinki is in the future, and doesn't count. Actually, he doesn't exist.

So no, Normal Ryougi could trash anything that Nanaya fought.

[PhantomCrimson]

okay here is the last part from me.

normal ryougi has trouble with a human magi incapable of reality marble or true magic.

satsujinki trashed 4 of the 27 apostles(roa, nero, tatari, and forest of E).

er... i think the comparison is pretty clear now(of course kogen ryougi is a different story, then satsujinki will stand no chance only counter forces(heroic spirits included) and TYPES can kill kogen ryougi).

[shabalabadingdong]

Satsujinki is in the future, and well, doesn't exist as he was only in some preview or something.

Araya had no lines to see. Obviously Ryougi can't kill him. Tohno/Nanaya Shiki would do even worse as they wouldn't be able to kill him either. Especially when Araya could compress anything in the building, since the building was him.

Roa, Nero, Tatari were all killed by Tohno Shiki, an inexperienced fighter who can't control his Chokushi no Magan. Normal Ryougi would slaughter them.

[PhantomCrimson]

yet the point is nanaya cant beat kogen ryougi. normal one meh no so much. the novel descriptions for ryougi's speed is nothing compared to nanaya's. kogen ryougi doesnt move fast, she is merely cutting distance. nanaya can PHYSICALLY achieve servant lvl speed(something ryougi cant do, cs she is not specialized in that). It is also mentioned that nanaya household has the hightest physically abilities out of all anti-demon families. Satsujinki is official, he'll appear in tsukihime2, confirmed.

[byungheelee]

@fibereco Nanaya doesn't have Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Only the Tohno variant does. In terms of "physical agility, speed and skill", they're an even match. Ryougi is also a family that bred Demon Hunters, similar to Nanaya. Only thing holding Ryougi back from killing anyone is that she likes the thrill of fight, so will not fight helpless people. So against Nanaya, easy victory for her.

[iamandragon]

@fibereco IIRC, Ryougi's speed can go beyond the speed of sound. Nanaya Shiki on the other hand has more agile actions rather than speed alone.

[shabalabadingdong]

Nanaya Shiki can't touch the awesomeness that is Ryougi Shiki.