This is such a legendary allusion, the oldest story ever, the first to come out of the void were immortal or to us seen as gods, It's even in the superman mythos, the kryptonian bible views rao as their god (sun god) the worship the red sun, they believe that Rao was the first being in existence to be born out of the void. This ain't new...someone is trying to tell us something?
@x1101011x not a case of how horrible reality is but how much of a curse immortality can/could be. i myself am writing a book about a young girl who is cursed with immortality, has to watch everything, her loved ones, society, the earth even the universe decay from age while she remains to observe it. Unending..even a universal Big Freeze she still still lingers trillions of years before the curse is lifted. imagine a horrible fate like that; would you really call that a blessing?
@legendarytoyou It turns to ash regardless -- that's what's horrible. The person whose finite life is too short to see it turn to ash is able to believe that it is eternal -- that's delusion.
I think that the First One's Immortality is an allusion to the Bible, specifically Genesis, where the first few generations of human kind lived for centuries. This is also observed in other ancient mythologies. For example, the Assyrians believed that their first kings lived for tens of thousands of years. Knowing JMS' penchant for making classical allusions, I would not be surprised if this was intentional.
I didn't like this guy, how could he possibly know he was the first in the universe? Maybe there was one before him in another galaxy that he had never met.
That's the thing, he's one of the first in the galaxy. The galaxy is a massive place far beyond our immediate comprehension. The universe is beyond Lorien's understanding much like Ivanova's is of the galaxy.
@AllTheseWorldsAreUrs I think it's a little bit of bad narrative in an otherwise great story. But you could know in a number of ways. For example, if we manage not to kill ourselves, pointing radio telescopes at other parts of the galaxy and at other galaxies will give us the electromagnetic "echo" of civilizations that would have lived and perhaps died millions of years ago, the Orions Arm Wiki explains this in some amazing detail.
When Lorien says "Only those whose lives are brief could imagine that love is eternal." he has this look of regret on his face. Could this be to a past love that he lost to death? Could that event have created this realization in him so that he could speak it to Ivanova eons later? Look at the look in his eye. There's something going on there. Lorien lost somebody. Someone very dear to him. And he's remembering it now.
Jesus...starring into Lorien's eyes is like starring into the eyes of a being both timeless and sad..exactly what I'd expect from the eyes of an immortal.
Thanks, I looked forever to find this scene in English.
This is what makes me love Lorien's question best out of all the rest. He acknowledges that without some higher purpose in your life it has no actual meaning. Like he said our ability to dream of love eternal "may be the greatest gift your race has ever recieved." I am a Christian so that especially resonates with me. Even if my faith was false (which I in no way believe it is) I would hold onto it for it to give my life meaning.
@LordGodsServant I don't think that is what he is trying to get at. I think what he is getting at is that the First Ones, including the Vorlons and Shadows, have lost the capacity for love and friendship because being immortal has taught them that those things inevitably fade with with the passage of time. The Younger Races, by virtue of having finite lifespans, lack that pessimistic attitude and are stronger than even the greatest First One because of it.
Love that last line: "Only those whose lives are brief could imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received" oooooo
@FuumaDarina Well as a being Billions of years old, reveared by the 2 most powerfull races in the known Galaxy, A being that can givu some of his life energy and shear it with others.....
I think that is in the job description :D
Thats one of the things that made Kosh so awesom as well.
This is such a legendary allusion, the oldest story ever, the first to come out of the void were immortal or to us seen as gods, It's even in the superman mythos, the kryptonian bible views rao as their god (sun god) the worship the red sun, they believe that Rao was the first being in existence to be born out of the void. This ain't new...someone is trying to tell us something?
Lava91point0 4 days ago
The Vorlons and the Shadows are dicks.
LightHero117 1 month ago
Love is eternal i be lost without mine very touching scene if you understand it
kevthegerbil1958 2 months ago
So, the greatest gift humanity ever received is the ability to deceive themselves about how truly horrible reality is? Swell.
x1101011x 2 months ago
@x1101011x not a case of how horrible reality is but how much of a curse immortality can/could be. i myself am writing a book about a young girl who is cursed with immortality, has to watch everything, her loved ones, society, the earth even the universe decay from age while she remains to observe it. Unending..even a universal Big Freeze she still still lingers trillions of years before the curse is lifted. imagine a horrible fate like that; would you really call that a blessing?
legendarytoyou 2 months ago
@legendarytoyou It turns to ash regardless -- that's what's horrible. The person whose finite life is too short to see it turn to ash is able to believe that it is eternal -- that's delusion.
x1101011x 2 months ago
Every time I see Lorien's beard I have this urge to stroke it. XD
InsurrectionistFungi 2 months ago
why r all the clips with Lorien dubbed in a foreign language and only a few clips in it's orginal form ??
xadam2dudex 3 months ago
I think that the First One's Immortality is an allusion to the Bible, specifically Genesis, where the first few generations of human kind lived for centuries. This is also observed in other ancient mythologies. For example, the Assyrians believed that their first kings lived for tens of thousands of years. Knowing JMS' penchant for making classical allusions, I would not be surprised if this was intentional.
DoctorWortspieler 3 months ago
This is wisdom?!
rakkav 4 months ago
I didn't like this guy, how could he possibly know he was the first in the universe? Maybe there was one before him in another galaxy that he had never met.
AllTheseWorldsAreUrs 4 months ago
@AllTheseWorldsAreUrs
That's the thing, he's one of the first in the galaxy. The galaxy is a massive place far beyond our immediate comprehension. The universe is beyond Lorien's understanding much like Ivanova's is of the galaxy.
marsneedstowels 4 months ago
@AllTheseWorldsAreUrs I think it's a little bit of bad narrative in an otherwise great story. But you could know in a number of ways. For example, if we manage not to kill ourselves, pointing radio telescopes at other parts of the galaxy and at other galaxies will give us the electromagnetic "echo" of civilizations that would have lived and perhaps died millions of years ago, the Orions Arm Wiki explains this in some amazing detail.
proadmin1 4 months ago
When Lorien says "Only those whose lives are brief could imagine that love is eternal." he has this look of regret on his face. Could this be to a past love that he lost to death? Could that event have created this realization in him so that he could speak it to Ivanova eons later? Look at the look in his eye. There's something going on there. Lorien lost somebody. Someone very dear to him. And he's remembering it now.
sunnchilde 5 months ago 10
The writing in this scene is wonderful, as is the acting from Claudia and Wayne.
JMS really knows how to create great characters......
I wish B5 was still going in some form, so much potential for a new series.
FoolsChaos 6 months ago 2
Jesus...starring into Lorien's eyes is like starring into the eyes of a being both timeless and sad..exactly what I'd expect from the eyes of an immortal.
JetJaguar1981 7 months ago
The comments are loosely related to some of those in the Old Testament.
Sealy57 8 months ago
Thanks, I looked forever to find this scene in English.
This is what makes me love Lorien's question best out of all the rest. He acknowledges that without some higher purpose in your life it has no actual meaning. Like he said our ability to dream of love eternal "may be the greatest gift your race has ever recieved." I am a Christian so that especially resonates with me. Even if my faith was false (which I in no way believe it is) I would hold onto it for it to give my life meaning.
LordGodsServant 8 months ago
@LordGodsServant I don't think that is what he is trying to get at. I think what he is getting at is that the First Ones, including the Vorlons and Shadows, have lost the capacity for love and friendship because being immortal has taught them that those things inevitably fade with with the passage of time. The Younger Races, by virtue of having finite lifespans, lack that pessimistic attitude and are stronger than even the greatest First One because of it.
Fbueller129 8 months ago 2
@Fbueller129 Perhaps we're both right.
I sill think I am right but I see where you are coming from. You have a valid point.
Perhaps that was what made Kosh different, he obviously personally loved Sheridan and the others.
LordGodsServant 8 months ago
Love that last line: "Only those whose lives are brief could imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion. It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received" oooooo
mattwho81 10 months ago
@mattwho81 it's cut off I think. At the end he says "it's also your greatest weakness".
xshoreLS1 9 months ago
@xshoreLS1 No, that's the whole scene. Directly after it cuts to a short glimpse of the Vorlon space fleet and then to Londo.
avoozl 9 months ago
Lorien such a great character. He is wise, but sometimes he made me scary...
FuumaDarina 1 year ago 6
@FuumaDarina Well as a being Billions of years old, reveared by the 2 most powerfull races in the known Galaxy, A being that can givu some of his life energy and shear it with others.....
I think that is in the job description :D
Thats one of the things that made Kosh so awesom as well.
Ower8x 7 months ago
that last line always makes me cry.
doctorw2 1 year ago
Thank you! My apologies for not spotting your response earlier. Thank you, Avoozi!
ElegantPaws01 1 year ago