The Numbers passage, he takes out of context. "God is not a man that He should lie"... That is talking about the sinnfulness of man. And Jesus is not sinnful.........
First of all, if the verse was reffering to the the fact that God is not sinfull then WHY does the Bible state that God REPENTED OF THE EVIL? a REPENTING BEING is a SINFUL BEING! Second of all, the verse CLEARLY states that GOD IS NOOOT A MAAN, and JESUS WAS A MAAAN, Thirdly, GOD DOESNT CHANGE as your Bible state, but according to you (trinitarian) god Changed into a MAAan!
I am the one that is educated, but by the looks at your comments: I think they speak for themselves.
"God repending" is not like us repented from our wrong. The context will show you wrong like always.
The veres says God is not sinnful like man. duhhhhhhhhhhhhh
And once again the Father did not become man but the Eternal Son did. Jesus became man not the Father. understand our position and stop spitting thrash and vemon out your fangs...
"God repending" is not like us repented from our wrong. The context will show you wrong like always"
Hahaha, the verse said "God repented OF THE EVIL" lol, isnt evil wrong?
"The veres says God is not sinnful like man. duhh" lol where does it say 'sinful like a man' it says "God is not a man that he should repent" yet other verses say he repented
Father did not become a man but the son did? So one God is totally diffrent from another? hahah you are proving our point that u worship 3 gods
My christian cousins, you see we believed in Jesus by the testament of Quran and Mohammad who said that Jesus is the Messiah (christ);however, your bible testify about mohammad by NAME(song of solomon, Ch 5 V 16) but you still have doubts. you can't pick and choose what suits you. i know there are many contradictions because it's a Gospel, not a direct word of god but open your hearts and god will guide.
Naliakbar, you misquoted a speech of balaak to try to prove your point. It's hilarious that you think it's an argument but never mind. Go read the entire chapter and the ones before it to see the story in it's fullness, and you'll see how rediculous it is.
yeah that tells he is god, it is clear if anything that he is the son of MAN, not god, as for being the lord of the sabbath, read the concordance, you will see one of the use of the word lord is as a sign of reverance like a servant to king, so sorry but this is not proof.
Naliakbar, that verse is not talking about Jesus, but ALL men, because "Son of man" is like the islamic expression "Son of Adam" and Adam is basicly MAN according to the Jews! And the expression "Lord" was even used for Abraham: In Genesis 18:12 Sarah said: "..After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, MY LORD (Abraham) being old also?"
Also, it seems strange that some one who was merely a man, would have such an exemplary place in the Koran. Per the Koran, Isa/Jesus did not die but physically ascended into Heaven and will descend to earth before the Day of Judgment and slay the Antichrist/Dajjal. Sounds like more then a man to me, eh?
Even more telling is how often the Qur'an makes a point of rebutting Christian and Judaic doctrine (often with mistaken or incomplete information). If the Qur'an is complete, and Allah is the one and only god, why even acknowledge other religions? Islam is the only religion to expressly refute other theologies. It is replacement theology.
Your argument is that Isa/Jesus was a Man since the father of his Mother Maryam/Mary "boinked" her mother (as you say). Well could not Christians use the same argument: since Isa/Jesus was conceived through Allah/God's will and without a father (something expressly stated in the Koran), he could not be man since all men require a father. In this case Jesus would be more exceptional than Mohammed.
My point is not to prove or disprove anything but to show that the difference between the Muslim view and the Christian view of Jesus is just a matter of degree. Christian-"Jesus is the perfect man, Man cannot be perfect therefore, Jesus is God." Muslim-"Jesus is the perfect man, Man cannot be perfect therefore, Jesus is man." Neither is an unreasonable conclusion to people born into their respective religion.
Additionally, the Koran seems to recognize Jesus as extremely exceptional and important (which you further confirm in the Koran verse since Jesus did not have a father even though all men after Adam did -even Mohammed). Why is Jesus so special in the Koran. A Christian could argue that the Koran clearly indicates how important Jesus is and that he could be none other then the Son of God.
Good point duranali. Allah (God) the almight created Adam from dust (he had no father nor a mother) and created Eve from Adam (No mother) and Jesus peace be upon him (from Mary). God is capable of billions of miracles. So why is it so hard to believe that God created Jesus without a father
rhomas913, you said "he could not be a man since all men require a father" then please explain what about Adam? he had no father and mother, and what about Eve??
well my point is to show that even the Quran recognizes Jesus as very exceptional...IMO more exceptional then Mohammed. Perhaps a Christian could look at the Quran and find support for his belief that Jesus is God.
Per the Quran: 1. Jesus is the only person after Adam (and Eve...thanks for the correction!) without a father; 2. He was the only person born of a virgin; 3. Jesus is the only person referred to as "Holy"; 4. Jesus never died but was taken to heaven alive and will return and slay the pigs, destroy the crosses, and abolish the Jizya (you would think this would be Mohammed's role). Finally, the Hadith indicates Jesus never sinned (whereas Mohammed did). It all sounds very supernatural to me, nay?
Also...an interesting coincidence in the Quran? Quran 74 30 states "Over it are Nineteen." As I understand it, scholars indicate that this is support for the mathematical miracle of the Quran (where the #19 is evident everywhere in the Quran). Then go to Quran 19 19 : "019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." #19 takes you straight to Jesus!
So Allah though Gabriel told Mohammed "over it are nineteen" which muslims believe indicates the 19 angels guarding the gates to hell. One could argue that instead it refers to the future Quran aya 19 19 regarding the coming of Jesus: that Jesus will guard the gates of Hell. All of the Quran is Allah's will; the #19 is very important; there are no coincidences in the Quran.
rhomas, you said Hadith indicates jesus never sinned and you still believe that we are the antichrist, however, accoreding to your christian belief, there is the concept of "the original sin" in which, jesus sinned. Please elaborate on that point??
Zain6766, Jesus was born without "original sin" - this is christian doctrine. "Original sin" is basically the capacity to sin: the basic essence of being human. Orignal sin was the result of Adam's disobedience to God. Adam was once in a perfect relationship with God. His sin severed this perfect path to God for him and all his descendents.
God sent his Son to earth as man to "atone" for this original sin. Jesus' death re-opened the path to salvation. Jesus' example is eternal, perfect, and timeless: love of God; love of fellow man; and forgiveness.
Jesus came as a man because God wanted us to accept Him of our own free will. If God had come as God everyone would have obeyed. We in essence would not have a choice. Jesus also came as man since that was the best way to instruct mankind. If you read the New Testament, Jesus' speaks through stories and parables which the common people can readily relate. But His stories also have a subversive aspect to them challenging the staus quo.
again, in that case Adam would be more exceptional than Jesus? the problem is that you are trying to compare who is better than who, what you should concentrate is that how to make yourself better in the eyes of god becuase all of these prophets have already gained heaven except us. comparision is not going to take you to heaven, its your deeds.
To me Jesus' example (love of God, love of man, and forgiveness) is timeless and far superior to that of Mohammed. Mohammed owned slaves (and allowed the master to bed his slavegirls); allowed the hitting of women; had a mixed message on war; married a nine year old; gave women lesser rights; and created a religion so filled with rules and regulation that the basic spirituality is gone.
first of all you cannot make things up for your arguement. mohammad did not own a slave, he freed them, example, Hazarat Bilal. if you make accusations, please post the source because without it it has no weight. women's rights are in quran, if you had read it, you would not have made these accusations, i already posted my answers about Hazarat Aisha and mohammad. Also, read what mohammad was doing just before the first revalation came upon him
Here is an example. Hadith Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 541: "Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's Apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's Apostle had a slave called Mid'am who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab...."
here is another regarding Mohammed and his slaves. Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 344: Narrated Anas: "Allah's Apostle went to (the house of) his slave tailor, and he was offered (a dish of) gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's Apostle eating it. "
"...and the Prophet had ascended to an upper room of his. At the door of the room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter." He admitted me and I entered to see the Prophet lying on a mat that had left its imprint on his side." - Mohammed had a slave at his service in his household.
Yes, Mohammed did free slaves but he did not forbid slavery. In fact there are many hadith and Koranic verses which support its continuation.
Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428: Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "The Prophet said: If anyone buys a slave who possesses property, his property belongs to the seller unless the buyer makes a proviso."
"....He was told: His brother, AbulYusr ibn Amr. He then sent for him and said: Set her free; when you hear that some slaves have been brought to me, came to me, and I shall compensate you for her.
She said: They set me free, and when some slaves were brought to the Apostle of Allah (PBUH), he gave them a slave in compensation for me."
rhomas i am sure you are very proud to post all the hadiths you find in Bukhari, but have you paid attention to them. read the above hadith with open mind. a slavery in your religion and in islam meant two different things. i am not sure that you know mohammad's enemy at his time never accused him of being a person with ill character. they knew how he treated his people, continue......
Well...I just searched the hadith and found some that mentioned slaves that Mohammed owned. I figured that you would take the Hadith (especially Bukhari which is taken as the most reliable) more then say Tabari's history. These examples all demonstrate that Mohammed owned slaves which to me is not compatible with modern values.
Jesus never owned slaves. Those so-called "Christians" who were involved in the slave trade were acting contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
Again,i have told you that your own Bible tells you that he is the prophet. Jesus(pbuh) told his diciples that he will come. you don't take that seriously but you are taking bukhari very serious because it serves your purpose. man, you have to prove if mohammad(pbuh) treated his "slaves" badly because the word "slaves" is not the same in your religion and ours. today's christians are also acting contrary to jesus teaching. they are following paul (saul) instead of Jesus(pbuh)
You have said nothing. You say things and you do not even post the verse. Bottom line is that Jesus was the perfect moral example; Mohammed was not. "Bedding" a captive slave girl is not treating them kindly. Allowing one to hit a women is not kind. The act of owning someone is not kind. Raiding your neighbors caravans is not kind. You would not last 10 seconds in a Paltalk Muslim room if you discount Bukari like you do.
Slavery is not acceptable whatsoever in Christianity so there is a difference. In Islam it is allowed (no matter how you want to dilute it). In Christianity it is not. I ask you, would you be ok with being a "slave" as defined by Islam??? Come on be serious: Slavery was never a good or necessary thing even in the time of Mohammed.
Why would God after giving us Jesus and his perfect example, send Mohammed and his imperfect example? Regardless, you never answered my earlier question. Why is Jesus so exceptional in the Quran if he is just a "prophet?"
Per the Quran: 1. Jesus is the only person after Adam (and Eve) without a father; 2. He was the only person born of a virgin; 3. Jesus is the only person referred to as "Holy"; 4. Jesus never died but was taken to heaven alive and will return and slay the pigs, destroy the crosses, and abolish the Jizya (you would think this would be Mohammed's role). Finally, the Hadith indicates Jesus never sinned (whereas Mohammed did). It sounds like one could find evidence of Jesus' divinity in the Quran.
here is the verse which mention mohammad by NAME. Song of solomon, chapter 5 verse 16, it reads, Huk ko me mutakim, me kul lo mohammadin, zah day do wa zah day eeh bai na jerusalem, its in hebrew, because its from your old testament which was preserved in hebrew until you translated it into greek. Muslims have no doubt on Jesus(pbuh), we have many doubts on you and your ways of worshiping. if you want me to translate, then please let me, i will be happy to do that.
The word you are talking about is the Hebrew word "Machmaddim" which means "praised one." Just because it sounds like Mohammed does not mean it is so. So i guess the other Old Testament verses that mention "Machmaddim" also refer to Mohammed as well.
The others say that Machmaddim was destroyed(2 Chron 36:19); was taken captive by an enemy (Lam 1:10); was to be laid waste(Isa 64:10-11); has been traded for food (Lam 1:11); has been slain by God(Lam 2:4; Hos 9:16);has been removed by God(Ezek. 24:16); is to be profaned by God(Ezek 24:21); is to be buried in thorns(Hos 9:6); and been carried away by pagans into their temples (Joel 3:5). So which ones refer to Mohammed?
your level of your hypocracy is just unbelievable. you call yourself a christain and doesn't believe in your own book? the bible is spoon feeding you about mohammad(pbuh) in that verse but you are so ignorant that you still don't believe. when your bible was translated from hebrew to greek, you translated mohammad(pbuh)also which is a name. like Jesus(pbuh) said to Jews, you will not enter heaven because you are not sincere, and they wanted to kill him, you are in the same category.
No, I just don't believe what you are saying about my Book.
Machmaddim is a Hebrew word so it was not translated from Greek to English. Most modern Bibles (in the commonly spoken languages) are directly translated from the original language.
Rhomas, as i said before to you earlier, holy quran says to tell others if they refuse to believe that you believe what you believe and i as our quran tells us. Islam is the only religon that doesn't tell anyone who will go to heaven or not, decsion is only up to god to decide. my responsibility was to have a conversation with you and give you the message, what you do with it is your choice. may god have his mercy upon all of us.
Thanks for the response. I already know my fate per Islam for disbelief.
Quran: 098.006 (YUSUFALI): "Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures."
Sounds like the religion has already decided the fate of disbelievers to me.
yes for those who reject TRUTH, like those who rejected Jesus, they will burn in hell becuase indeed, he was the true messiah and that was and is the truth.
Ad Dibbabs gave Mid'am to mohammad(PBUH) as a geture to serve him as many people wanted who believed in his message. it doesn't mean that Mid'am was tortured or wanted to run away, or was not paid for his work. Moreover, where do you see a "slave" wanting to replicate what his master is doing? you see when jesus said i'm the father and he is me,
The hadith I cited above (Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428) was solely to show that Mohammed owned slaves (how can you give a slave away if you do not own him?). I recognize that Mohammed regulated a practice that did not have regulations before. This was good. The problem is he still allowed slavery to exist when he could have easily banned it.
The hadith I cited above (Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428) was solely to show that Mohammed owned slaves (how can you give a slave away if you do not own him?). I recognize that Mohammed regulated a practice that did not have regulations before. This was good. The problem is he still allowed slavery to exist when he could have easily banned it.
he is claiming to be god, but you have to read the whole story what he was saying, in what context was he saying i am the father and he is me.i would also like to point out that to muslims, it is not obligatory to believe in all the hadiths because they were written by historians and common men, i am not saying that i dont' believe in your sources but if you bring somehting from quran and something from Bukhari, they are two different things.
They also object to the use of the word "persons." They claim that God is one person manifest as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Nevertheless, they maintain the co-equality of the Godhead.
The rest will have to wait for eternity to be fully understood.There are also those who generally accept the principals of trinity but object to the use of the word "Trinity." This is known as the Apostolic or Oneness view. They prefer to use the word "godhead," which is found in the King James Version of the Bible (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9) rather than "Trinity, which is not found in the Bible
The problem we have comprehending something like this is that man is a finite or limited, being that uses a finite language to describe what he sees around him. God on the other hand is infinite or unlimited. So when you try to understand an infinite God using the finite language of finite man, you run into problems. We should seek to understand everything we can about God, but at the same time, realize that what we need to know about God, God has openly revealed to us.
God is: one living God manifest in the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, co-equal and co-eternal. He is holy, infinite, eternal, unchangeable, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and the creator of all things. Although we may not fully understand these things, we know this is what the Bible says and we accept what we know by faith
The idea of the trinity is that God exists as three persons. They are not three separate "gods," but rather the same one God. This is why any understanding of the trinity must be coupled with the concept of co-equality and co-eternity. In other words once you make one portion of the godhead less or greater than the other you have created more than one God
Nevertheless, to say that there are three Gods is blasphemy and violates one of the most cardinal teachings of both Judaism and Christianity, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Dt.6:4 NIV).
MAY I ADD-yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live .1 Corinthians 8:6
maybe you are confused about the bible as it only talks about 2 gods the god of this world(satan)and the father the bible did not say jesus is god or the holy spirit if you believe that all 3 are god then you are decieved-muslims argue about jesus being the son of god and they argue about him being god pls make up your minds
whatever-maybe ppl that speak intelligence are alcoholic in your eyes or maybe its just that you have no clue about the bible if i'm wrong them prove what you saying about 2 or 3 gods in the bible if not grow up,start by finding the word trinity-good luck
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live .1 Corinthians 8:6
Sorry Mr. Intelligence, you are contradicting your own scriptures. You say THREE but your scripture says TWO. Where is the Holly Spirit?! Up in your sleeve?!
1 Corinthians 8:6 talks about "one God, the Father" and "one Lord Jesus". So I was asking where the third guy - the Holly Ghost. Where is he? Why they are not tri - united here? And why you are saying tree but quoting a verse which talks about only two?
This is what I meant when I said that you Christians are confusing.
first i'm not a christian second its wise to read 1 corinth you will find your answers in it--not sure about your 3 theory if you cannot understand that the bible talks about one god instead of imaginary religious ideas (3 gods etc)you have no hope-i am still waiting for you to prove your point
This is a question that has baffled theologians for centuries. We probably will never completely comprehend this issue until we are united with God in heaven. Just as the Apostle Paul said, "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (2Cor.14:12 NIV).
We have diffrent interpertations, I am more of a Gnostic at heart, so forgive me if I offended you. My you find peace with God, or whatever gives you hope and morals.
I agree that he is talking about future events, but he says that "this genearation will not pass away until all thses things are fulfilled" the disiples were the only ones there when he said that?
yes you are right but do not get confused about then and the future,one thing when he was going to be crucified some one did mention about the temple being destroyed and raised up again in 3 days but jesus was talking about himself,so others were aware of his comments besides his disiples
Jesus said he would return and that generation would not pass away before he second coming, has Jesus second coming happend? Nope, so he was wrong about this generation not passing away before those events, read the whole chapter. How is my info false, are you calling the NT false?
You said that he never lied, I agree with that part of your statment. I think that people misquoted him. I recomend that you read "From Jesus to Chrisianity" by White, and "Misquoting Jesus" by Ehrman. Both are really good. Thank you for the great debat, and may peace be with you!
He is wrong in Mark chapter 13, when he says that the generation that is present will not pass away(die) before the End Times. Mark 13:30, obviously they all died, and we are all here, hence no End Times, Jesus was wrong.
He changed his mind about using the swords. He was wrong about the End Times. Why do you tell me I don't know what I'm reading, perhaps you should read.
Luke 22:36 selling cloak to by a sword,yea and and what, Mark 13:30talking about a building that did get destroyed by the romans,common jesus never lied you have false info
Some think that it refers to the destruction of the Temple, but what about that fact that the prophesy is about the End Times. Read the whole chapter!
What about the Son of Man(Jesus) coming on the clouds, in all the power and glory? Nation against naion, sounds like the Book of Rev. My NIV notes says that this is reference to the End Times
the bible speaks more about the end times than anything else OT to NT,and yes verse 24 is on the same parralel as revelation just like isiah and many other books
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man to be capricious, or a mortal to change his mind. Would he speak and not act, promise and not fulfil? There are many verses were Jesus said something was going to happen and he was wrong. Sorry pal, he also changed his mind.
You said that Jesus never changed his mind. Go to Luke 22:36 and read on about Jesus telling the disiples to buy swords(11) and then says 2 is enough. Then in the Garden he says not to use them. He changed his mind?????
if you have a bible read john chapter 1 onwards that explains jesus in coralation with god.and if you knew the true maassage of christ then you would know that john 1.12 explains who we are and that is not children adam.and the bible never says god is a trinty he has a counsel or hosts,GOD JESUS,HOLY SPIRIT WORK TOGETHER IN ONE LOVE AND AGREEMENT thats why he and the father is one-one love-one unity.you see me you see the father.
1John: Agreement is diffrent then the KJV's "These three are one". The RSV and NIV bibles take out that verse altogther. The first verse of the gospel of John is his narrative not the words of Jesus. If god is a Trinity then why don't Jews believe that, my Jew friends do not. He is one!
Awesome job using Jays words agaisnt him. The Trinity is not inspired of God nor was it taught by the 1st cen Christians. It was a invention of the churchfathers in the 3rd and 4th cen. God is one(1 Tim 2:5). 1 Cor 11:3 shows that Jesus was in a lesser position then the Father at ALL times.
The bible is the inspired word of God. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Philippians 2:11 omg, Jesus said that to his people to. And No One believe Him. He was stoned for being blashphemy. Nali, your one of them. U like criticizing the bible informing its error. Its called Higher/Lower Criticism.
Friend let me ask you a stupid question, a book of god would be with every person of god right? a book of god would be unchanged right? tell me is that true with your bible? answer to both questions is no, the average christian does NOT have an "original" bible, and what they have has been changed so yeah i will critizide the authenticity of the book.
question number one my answer NO! i woudnt say unchanged i would say altered by anti-christ. true my bible, its the preserved word of God. we dont need the original bible. I only need the preserved word of God. When Moses broke the two tablets. God made another two tablets. It wasnt the Original One but was the Still Exact words of God. So Whats ur point?
God you guys cant understand pure english, what i am saying is that the average christian does not have the "original" bible the one that is in hebrew or what ever language they are in, and because of that it is easy to mis-translate something and pass it off as religion. that is my point,.
lol christians DO NOT have the Original Text! who would ever read HEbrew language today anyway? ask the scholars/theologians, they can help! ...the Original bible was written in Greek! well as what Jesus said: Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my word will Still remain FOREVER! Now thats Something!
can you read and understand english? i said "in hebrew or what ever language they are in, and because of that it is easy to mis-translate something and pass it off as religion" so i could care less if it was is greek or Freek it doesnt matter, if you have to go to a scholar to get the meaning, it means that that scholor controls your future in faith, which is why i say it is easy to change your religion.
jinns are demons and they are the real inspiration of the quran they appear as angels of light mohamed accepted them as he was a agnostic of his days -hunufa quote from the glorious quran(at makkah),try and deny that if you do then it just shows that you do not believe in your own book
Actually Jinn are made of fire and Angels are made of light, big diffrence. Allah is the inspiration for the Quran, not sure were you think Demons inspired it, I think you are reading Middle Age European Christian commentators.
one muslim(fot) said to me that jacob wrestled with god and he pointed out the verse to me if god cannot become a man then who did jacob or what did jacob wrestle against,if you disagree with him it just goes to show that muslims do not know what they are talking about except contradictions themselfs
That is not a Muslim problem but the problem with the Bible completley. Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man. So I don't know about Jacob. Some Jewish friends of mine told me that the story was Jacob wrestling with the angel of God, but who knows. Son of Man was a title that was to be given to the Messiah, so of course Jesus would call himself that. That story of Jacob wrestling god is not in the Quran btw.
of course its not in the quran, made up books never contain the full truth/history and its a muslim problem alright and don't tell what your friends say what do you say?did not muhamed say go to the people of the books,if you are going to comment on the bible at least read it first and you may not sound stupid.the quran is made up of the OT and the lost books of the bible with fairytales,ie noahs 4th son with no name allah the moon god splits the moon in half i can go on,but?daughters of allah
Numbers 23:19 god is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should change his mind,muslims love twisting the truth why?jesus never lied nor changed his mind.try harder pal
ERROR, you should study Christians. Or the bible-believing people. Even experts would say that Jesus Christ is God Himself. They would plainly say that Mohamad butchered so many innocents people. You need evidence? Read Quran and the Hadith their books!
tell me where in jesus' living life he said "I AM GOD" not i am the son of god, because may prophets before him were given that title as well.. so tell me in his living life where he said that in your bible?
Im not sure if you read the bible though. Omg, read the New Testament. Oh man.. concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord ..God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. try reading please. believe not?
this is the basis of your faith, without it you are not a christian, you ask me where in the quran god says he is one, i say go to sura 112, so tell me where in jesus' living life he said he was god or to worship him as the son of god.
the bible is the inspired word of God. The apostles are the witnesses of Jesus Christ' birth and ressurection. They are the disciples of Christ Jesus. They are the forefathers of Christianity. They wrote down the bible; they were moved by the HOly Spirit of God. So yeah read the whole passage of 1 John. You'll know. Logical reasons but having no perspective from where I stand is very useless. So thanks!
Yes we believe that he was born through devine intervention, just like adam was created from devine intervention... so unless you call adam god, jesus was less than adam since he needed a woman to come to earth adam didnt.
And no wonder for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then if his servents masquerade as servents of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. "never force your belifs on another it is better to lend a hand then to force it.
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lords servents must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
sometimes he does smoking too.what a fiery and smoky God ?psam18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it.
sam18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it
I don't know why he gets drunk .maybe he is his sons have been gone for having sex with the daughters of man to make giants- gen 6:6-7 to be sorry(nasb)/repented (kjv) grieve to make man and wipe them off
-rested and refreshed(kjv) (exodus31:17) ask yourself when you need rest?
-god defeated but unable to pushed the enemies out of land (judges1:19)
that explains the truth for your jigsaw God that you like to pick the pieces of unable/weak gods. Be happy with it!
actually, christianity tells us that children are not responsible for their salvation yet. people who have never heard about jesus unfortuantely do not go to heaven but in the bible, there is a knowing factor. God will not punish that person as hard as he would a drunk that has access to a church and other christian resources that refuses to believe in jesus.
well, to counter that, other people wrote it down for him. muhhammed just told them what to write. we may not have access to abraham but according to islam, ishmael was a muslim. let me ask something. how was ishmael a muslim even though muhammed did not come until much later?
a muslim is one who follows islam, islam means submission to the one true god, so this is how he can be called a muslim. even adam was a muslim because he submitted his will to one true god. let me ask you can you ever think about calling moses christian? you cannot. but i can call him a muslim.
By definition of the word not by the religion/faith. Moses was a hebrew or jew. If another religion/faith says that 'sabino' means submission in their religion/faith they can claim the same thing, yet it doesn't mean Moses is a 'sabino'. lol The religious term islam/muslim did not exist in the time from adam to the time arabic became a language. Legally by definition of the faith nobody can be called a muslim/islam 'til the time of muhammad. tada
see that is when you make up a name but even if you go to an arab speaking christian and ask him what is a muslim traslate to it is one who submits to the will of god, so the term muslim has been around before islam as a religion.
Modern Standard Arabic derives from Classical Arabic, the only surviving member of the Old North Arabian dialect group, attested epigraphically since the 6th century, which has been a literary language and the liturgical language of Islam since the 7th century.
If i go to another culture altogether they'll call 'god' by their name: Maasai name for "God" is Ngai. Bhagavan "The Opulent One", Brahman "The Great", Paramatma "The Supersoul" & Ishvara "The Controller", are the terms used for God in the Vedas. So if u go to speak to massai ppl u would have to use their word 'ngai'. In your mind u mean 'allah' but in the massai mind u would come across to them as meaning their 'god'.
U miss my whole point. It's not the 'catch'. It's the wording other cultures use in their consciousness to describe their god or ascribe worship to him, etc. In some of those other cultures they have only 1 god also.
you and even muslims ( islam's muslims that is ) miss the whole point about this as long as someone believes in one god, follows godly priciples and know that everything comes from god, dont ascribe partners to him, my belief is that they will enter heaven because they are muslims be it that they accept muhammad or not. but once they know islam they will see it is the same god, that their prophet told them about and join islam.
So if they have 1 god & follow their own heathen practices which in their own views is 'godly', & they already view everything as coming from a god they'll achieve heaven? Sure they're already 'submitting' to a god which would be considered 'islam' by muslim definition but it's still another god. that's not a very good analogy actually. whatever works...
Godly principles we can say is more or less the 10 commandments. So yeah as long as they are not associating a partner to god, and treating others as they would like to be treated. As for the name of god, well in arabic it is called Allah, for english it is God in Lithuanian it is Dievas. But it all means GOD so what ever they call god doesn't change faith in the same god.
Good grief. I'm implying ppl that live far in the jungles of south america, places that nobody or very few modernized ppl have been to. We're not just talking about the word they use for 'god' the object in their mind called 'god'. Some ppl worship money, sex, food, self, gold, alcohol, etc. If u go up to an alcoholic that worships alcohol & u say talk about their god, they're going to show u a bottle of alcohol. Get it?
does your alcohol bottle god teach the godly principles? no. does your god sex teach about godly princ? NO. some jungle people say god is light and follow godly princ. my opinion is that they will be in heaven.
where is the error? because it doesnt matter what you call god, as long as it is god as i know him to be i believe that person will be in paradise, see this is the thing with christianity if a person never hears aobut jesus how will he go to heaven? a child never heard about jesus what about them? islam has an answer but christianity does not.
That's just it. 'as long as it is god as i know him' We're talking about ppl who DON'T know him as u say u know him. How can u say islam has an answer when u can't even understand this simple concept of someone living in south america, ie, who worships quetzlcoatl as their 1 god. like arguing w/ignorance w/u.
i dont have an issue. i just dont belive in the quran. i believe in the bible. but, it seems like we are not going to convince each other using our religious books so we must go by history. artifacts and records dictate that that abraham actually lived in cannan.
friend i understand where you are comming from, but unfortunately we dont have access to abraham, you cant show me any miricles of jesus today that i cant show you from some other religion. i know i can show you the miricle of muhammad which was the quran a book revealed to a person that could not read or write. it is the word of god with us till the end of time.
read the context of the verse. do you think jesus was talking about that time in the past. Jesus was cleary talking about the future because one of the disciples asked what the end of time would be like. Then jesus starts talking about it and then this generation {referring to the end of time generation} "this" in this context is "this" generation that will have all of these prophecies. look at the context of the verse. see, i am right.
it is interesting that you would all of a sudden realize that there is context to go with that statement but will have an issue when we say the same thing about a verse in the quran.
U still haven't answered the question properly. What would be your relationship to this 'body' that u have created for yourself to walk around in & talk to ppl?
well first of we know that differnt matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time, so i would not be able to create flesh over my invisible flesh most i would be able to do is create skin to my invisible body.
Different matter? U mean same matter. There is spirit & there is flesh. Create flesh over invisible flesh? Ever seen a dead body? Where's their invisible spirit? We're talking about 2 different 'substances'. Flesh is not spirit & spirit is not flesh? Do u agree w/that?
for the arguement you are using i say ok i will bite that you are spirit in flesh, but now this flesh you want me to swallow was born of a woman did just happen so how do you explain that? and i have you know adam is what you are talking about sprit to flesh
i see myself in my dream and i see others in my dream as well, but they dont see me in their dream so how do you explain that? im sure that there is more to dreams but for the most part is it your brain functioning on (to use computer terms) defraging your information of the waking hours.
the body would be a created body like you said in your question and it would be where my spirit resides, but that does not say the body is me in so saying the name of the created body is not the name for me
tell me how do you know you have salvation?
Erap1muzik 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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youneekk 8 months ago
this guy has NO IDEA of what he is talking about.
The Numbers passage, he takes out of context. "God is not a man that He should lie"... That is talking about the sinnfulness of man. And Jesus is not sinnful.........
MBI3030 3 years ago
"God is not a man that He should lie"
First of all, if the verse was reffering to the the fact that God is not sinfull then WHY does the Bible state that God REPENTED OF THE EVIL? a REPENTING BEING is a SINFUL BEING! Second of all, the verse CLEARLY states that GOD IS NOOOT A MAAN, and JESUS WAS A MAAAN, Thirdly, GOD DOESNT CHANGE as your Bible state, but according to you (trinitarian) god Changed into a MAAan!
EDUCATE YOURSELF!
easyonetwothree 3 years ago
I am the one that is educated, but by the looks at your comments: I think they speak for themselves.
"God repending" is not like us repented from our wrong. The context will show you wrong like always.
The veres says God is not sinnful like man. duhhhhhhhhhhhhh
And once again the Father did not become man but the Eternal Son did. Jesus became man not the Father. understand our position and stop spitting thrash and vemon out your fangs...
MBI3030 3 years ago
"God repending" is not like us repented from our wrong. The context will show you wrong like always"
Hahaha, the verse said "God repented OF THE EVIL" lol, isnt evil wrong?
"The veres says God is not sinnful like man. duhh" lol where does it say 'sinful like a man' it says "God is not a man that he should repent" yet other verses say he repented
Father did not become a man but the son did? So one God is totally diffrent from another? hahah you are proving our point that u worship 3 gods
easyonetwothree 3 years ago
I'm not Muslim, but he makes great points.
epic103 3 years ago
My christian cousins, you see we believed in Jesus by the testament of Quran and Mohammad who said that Jesus is the Messiah (christ);however, your bible testify about mohammad by NAME(song of solomon, Ch 5 V 16) but you still have doubts. you can't pick and choose what suits you. i know there are many contradictions because it's a Gospel, not a direct word of god but open your hearts and god will guide.
zain6766 4 years ago
Naliakbar, you misquoted a speech of balaak to try to prove your point. It's hilarious that you think it's an argument but never mind. Go read the entire chapter and the ones before it to see the story in it's fullness, and you'll see how rediculous it is.
RealYungMoney 4 years ago
Matthew 12:8 -- Jesus says he is God
RealYungMoney 4 years ago
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath"
yeah that tells he is god, it is clear if anything that he is the son of MAN, not god, as for being the lord of the sabbath, read the concordance, you will see one of the use of the word lord is as a sign of reverance like a servant to king, so sorry but this is not proof.
naliakbar 3 years ago
Naliakbar, that verse is not talking about Jesus, but ALL men, because "Son of man" is like the islamic expression "Son of Adam" and Adam is basicly MAN according to the Jews! And the expression "Lord" was even used for Abraham: In Genesis 18:12 Sarah said: "..After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, MY LORD (Abraham) being old also?"
easyonetwothree 3 years ago
Also, it seems strange that some one who was merely a man, would have such an exemplary place in the Koran. Per the Koran, Isa/Jesus did not die but physically ascended into Heaven and will descend to earth before the Day of Judgment and slay the Antichrist/Dajjal. Sounds like more then a man to me, eh?
rhomas913 4 years ago
Even more telling is how often the Qur'an makes a point of rebutting Christian and Judaic doctrine (often with mistaken or incomplete information). If the Qur'an is complete, and Allah is the one and only god, why even acknowledge other religions? Islam is the only religion to expressly refute other theologies. It is replacement theology.
hennypenny247 4 years ago
Your argument is that Isa/Jesus was a Man since the father of his Mother Maryam/Mary "boinked" her mother (as you say). Well could not Christians use the same argument: since Isa/Jesus was conceived through Allah/God's will and without a father (something expressly stated in the Koran), he could not be man since all men require a father. In this case Jesus would be more exceptional than Mohammed.
rhomas913 4 years ago
rhomas913,
Let me refute your argument with ONE VERSE FROM THE QURAN...
<b>"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.(003.059)"</b>
Yes, Adam didn't have Father or Mother, is He God?...Think About It...
duranali 4 years ago
My point is not to prove or disprove anything but to show that the difference between the Muslim view and the Christian view of Jesus is just a matter of degree. Christian-"Jesus is the perfect man, Man cannot be perfect therefore, Jesus is God." Muslim-"Jesus is the perfect man, Man cannot be perfect therefore, Jesus is man." Neither is an unreasonable conclusion to people born into their respective religion.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Additionally, the Koran seems to recognize Jesus as extremely exceptional and important (which you further confirm in the Koran verse since Jesus did not have a father even though all men after Adam did -even Mohammed). Why is Jesus so special in the Koran. A Christian could argue that the Koran clearly indicates how important Jesus is and that he could be none other then the Son of God.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Good point duranali. Allah (God) the almight created Adam from dust (he had no father nor a mother) and created Eve from Adam (No mother) and Jesus peace be upon him (from Mary). God is capable of billions of miracles. So why is it so hard to believe that God created Jesus without a father
abusalahedin 4 years ago
rhomas913, you said "he could not be a man since all men require a father" then please explain what about Adam? he had no father and mother, and what about Eve??
zain6766 4 years ago
well my point is to show that even the Quran recognizes Jesus as very exceptional...IMO more exceptional then Mohammed. Perhaps a Christian could look at the Quran and find support for his belief that Jesus is God.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Per the Quran: 1. Jesus is the only person after Adam (and Eve...thanks for the correction!) without a father; 2. He was the only person born of a virgin; 3. Jesus is the only person referred to as "Holy"; 4. Jesus never died but was taken to heaven alive and will return and slay the pigs, destroy the crosses, and abolish the Jizya (you would think this would be Mohammed's role). Finally, the Hadith indicates Jesus never sinned (whereas Mohammed did). It all sounds very supernatural to me, nay?
rhomas913 4 years ago
Also...an interesting coincidence in the Quran? Quran 74 30 states "Over it are Nineteen." As I understand it, scholars indicate that this is support for the mathematical miracle of the Quran (where the #19 is evident everywhere in the Quran). Then go to Quran 19 19 : "019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." #19 takes you straight to Jesus!
rhomas913 4 years ago
So Allah though Gabriel told Mohammed "over it are nineteen" which muslims believe indicates the 19 angels guarding the gates to hell. One could argue that instead it refers to the future Quran aya 19 19 regarding the coming of Jesus: that Jesus will guard the gates of Hell. All of the Quran is Allah's will; the #19 is very important; there are no coincidences in the Quran.
rhomas913 4 years ago
rhomas, you said Hadith indicates jesus never sinned and you still believe that we are the antichrist, however, accoreding to your christian belief, there is the concept of "the original sin" in which, jesus sinned. Please elaborate on that point??
zain6766 4 years ago
Zain6766, Jesus was born without "original sin" - this is christian doctrine. "Original sin" is basically the capacity to sin: the basic essence of being human. Orignal sin was the result of Adam's disobedience to God. Adam was once in a perfect relationship with God. His sin severed this perfect path to God for him and all his descendents.
rhomas913 4 years ago
God sent his Son to earth as man to "atone" for this original sin. Jesus' death re-opened the path to salvation. Jesus' example is eternal, perfect, and timeless: love of God; love of fellow man; and forgiveness.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Jesus came as a man because God wanted us to accept Him of our own free will. If God had come as God everyone would have obeyed. We in essence would not have a choice. Jesus also came as man since that was the best way to instruct mankind. If you read the New Testament, Jesus' speaks through stories and parables which the common people can readily relate. But His stories also have a subversive aspect to them challenging the staus quo.
rhomas913 4 years ago
again, in that case Adam would be more exceptional than Jesus? the problem is that you are trying to compare who is better than who, what you should concentrate is that how to make yourself better in the eyes of god becuase all of these prophets have already gained heaven except us. comparision is not going to take you to heaven, its your deeds.
zain6766 4 years ago
Well...Adam sinned, Jesus did not. Simple logic is Jesus is the perfect man (sinless); man cannot be perfect; therefore Jesus is God.
I agree with you here. We should focus on improving ourselves. Christians would hold that the best way is to strive to imitate Jesus' example.
By the way, I do not believe that Muslims are the anti-christ.
rhomas913 4 years ago
To me Jesus' example (love of God, love of man, and forgiveness) is timeless and far superior to that of Mohammed. Mohammed owned slaves (and allowed the master to bed his slavegirls); allowed the hitting of women; had a mixed message on war; married a nine year old; gave women lesser rights; and created a religion so filled with rules and regulation that the basic spirituality is gone.
rhomas913 4 years ago
first of all you cannot make things up for your arguement. mohammad did not own a slave, he freed them, example, Hazarat Bilal. if you make accusations, please post the source because without it it has no weight. women's rights are in quran, if you had read it, you would not have made these accusations, i already posted my answers about Hazarat Aisha and mohammad. Also, read what mohammad was doing just before the first revalation came upon him
zain6766 4 years ago
Here is an example. Hadith Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 541: "Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's Apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's Apostle had a slave called Mid'am who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab...."
rhomas913 4 years ago
here is another regarding Mohammed and his slaves. Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 344: Narrated Anas: "Allah's Apostle went to (the house of) his slave tailor, and he was offered (a dish of) gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's Apostle eating it. "
rhomas913 4 years ago
Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 734:
"...and the Prophet had ascended to an upper room of his. At the door of the room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter." He admitted me and I entered to see the Prophet lying on a mat that had left its imprint on his side." - Mohammed had a slave at his service in his household.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Yes, Mohammed did free slaves but he did not forbid slavery. In fact there are many hadith and Koranic verses which support its continuation.
Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428: Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: "The Prophet said: If anyone buys a slave who possesses property, his property belongs to the seller unless the buyer makes a proviso."
rhomas913 4 years ago
Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428:
"....He was told: His brother, AbulYusr ibn Amr. He then sent for him and said: Set her free; when you hear that some slaves have been brought to me, came to me, and I shall compensate you for her.
She said: They set me free, and when some slaves were brought to the Apostle of Allah (PBUH), he gave them a slave in compensation for me."
rhomas913 4 years ago
rhomas i am sure you are very proud to post all the hadiths you find in Bukhari, but have you paid attention to them. read the above hadith with open mind. a slavery in your religion and in islam meant two different things. i am not sure that you know mohammad's enemy at his time never accused him of being a person with ill character. they knew how he treated his people, continue......
zain6766 4 years ago
Well...I just searched the hadith and found some that mentioned slaves that Mohammed owned. I figured that you would take the Hadith (especially Bukhari which is taken as the most reliable) more then say Tabari's history. These examples all demonstrate that Mohammed owned slaves which to me is not compatible with modern values.
Jesus never owned slaves. Those so-called "Christians" who were involved in the slave trade were acting contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Again,i have told you that your own Bible tells you that he is the prophet. Jesus(pbuh) told his diciples that he will come. you don't take that seriously but you are taking bukhari very serious because it serves your purpose. man, you have to prove if mohammad(pbuh) treated his "slaves" badly because the word "slaves" is not the same in your religion and ours. today's christians are also acting contrary to jesus teaching. they are following paul (saul) instead of Jesus(pbuh)
zain6766 4 years ago
You have said nothing. You say things and you do not even post the verse. Bottom line is that Jesus was the perfect moral example; Mohammed was not. "Bedding" a captive slave girl is not treating them kindly. Allowing one to hit a women is not kind. The act of owning someone is not kind. Raiding your neighbors caravans is not kind. You would not last 10 seconds in a Paltalk Muslim room if you discount Bukari like you do.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Slavery is not acceptable whatsoever in Christianity so there is a difference. In Islam it is allowed (no matter how you want to dilute it). In Christianity it is not. I ask you, would you be ok with being a "slave" as defined by Islam??? Come on be serious: Slavery was never a good or necessary thing even in the time of Mohammed.
rhomas913 4 years ago
Why would God after giving us Jesus and his perfect example, send Mohammed and his imperfect example? Regardless, you never answered my earlier question. Why is Jesus so exceptional in the Quran if he is just a "prophet?"
rhomas913 4 years ago
Per the Quran: 1. Jesus is the only person after Adam (and Eve) without a father; 2. He was the only person born of a virgin; 3. Jesus is the only person referred to as "Holy"; 4. Jesus never died but was taken to heaven alive and will return and slay the pigs, destroy the crosses, and abolish the Jizya (you would think this would be Mohammed's role). Finally, the Hadith indicates Jesus never sinned (whereas Mohammed did). It sounds like one could find evidence of Jesus' divinity in the Quran.
rhomas913 4 years ago
here is the verse which mention mohammad by NAME. Song of solomon, chapter 5 verse 16, it reads, Huk ko me mutakim, me kul lo mohammadin, zah day do wa zah day eeh bai na jerusalem, its in hebrew, because its from your old testament which was preserved in hebrew until you translated it into greek. Muslims have no doubt on Jesus(pbuh), we have many doubts on you and your ways of worshiping. if you want me to translate, then please let me, i will be happy to do that.
zain6766 4 years ago 2
The word you are talking about is the Hebrew word "Machmaddim" which means "praised one." Just because it sounds like Mohammed does not mean it is so. So i guess the other Old Testament verses that mention "Machmaddim" also refer to Mohammed as well.
rhomas913 4 years ago
The others say that Machmaddim was destroyed(2 Chron 36:19); was taken captive by an enemy (Lam 1:10); was to be laid waste(Isa 64:10-11); has been traded for food (Lam 1:11); has been slain by God(Lam 2:4; Hos 9:16);has been removed by God(Ezek. 24:16); is to be profaned by God(Ezek 24:21); is to be buried in thorns(Hos 9:6); and been carried away by pagans into their temples (Joel 3:5). So which ones refer to Mohammed?
rhomas913 4 years ago
your level of your hypocracy is just unbelievable. you call yourself a christain and doesn't believe in your own book? the bible is spoon feeding you about mohammad(pbuh) in that verse but you are so ignorant that you still don't believe. when your bible was translated from hebrew to greek, you translated mohammad(pbuh)also which is a name. like Jesus(pbuh) said to Jews, you will not enter heaven because you are not sincere, and they wanted to kill him, you are in the same category.
zain6766 4 years ago
No, I just don't believe what you are saying about my Book.
Machmaddim is a Hebrew word so it was not translated from Greek to English. Most modern Bibles (in the commonly spoken languages) are directly translated from the original language.
So now you decide if I will go to Heaven?
rhomas913 4 years ago
Rhomas, as i said before to you earlier, holy quran says to tell others if they refuse to believe that you believe what you believe and i as our quran tells us. Islam is the only religon that doesn't tell anyone who will go to heaven or not, decsion is only up to god to decide. my responsibility was to have a conversation with you and give you the message, what you do with it is your choice. may god have his mercy upon all of us.
zain6766 4 years ago
Thanks for the response. I already know my fate per Islam for disbelief.
Quran: 098.006 (YUSUFALI): "Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures."
Sounds like the religion has already decided the fate of disbelievers to me.
rhomas913 4 years ago
yes for those who reject TRUTH, like those who rejected Jesus, they will burn in hell becuase indeed, he was the true messiah and that was and is the truth.
zain6766 4 years ago
Ad Dibbabs gave Mid'am to mohammad(PBUH) as a geture to serve him as many people wanted who believed in his message. it doesn't mean that Mid'am was tortured or wanted to run away, or was not paid for his work. Moreover, where do you see a "slave" wanting to replicate what his master is doing? you see when jesus said i'm the father and he is me,
zain6766 4 years ago
The hadith I cited above (Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428) was solely to show that Mohammed owned slaves (how can you give a slave away if you do not own him?). I recognize that Mohammed regulated a practice that did not have regulations before. This was good. The problem is he still allowed slavery to exist when he could have easily banned it.
rhomas913 4 years ago
The hadith I cited above (Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3428) was solely to show that Mohammed owned slaves (how can you give a slave away if you do not own him?). I recognize that Mohammed regulated a practice that did not have regulations before. This was good. The problem is he still allowed slavery to exist when he could have easily banned it.
rhomas913 4 years ago
he is claiming to be god, but you have to read the whole story what he was saying, in what context was he saying i am the father and he is me.i would also like to point out that to muslims, it is not obligatory to believe in all the hadiths because they were written by historians and common men, i am not saying that i dont' believe in your sources but if you bring somehting from quran and something from Bukhari, they are two different things.
zain6766 4 years ago
but rhomas, it says in the bible that when asked about god, jesus said no one has seen god. also, if jesus was god, then who was he praying to?
zain6766 4 years ago
you'll have to give me the verse.
rhomas913 4 years ago
They also object to the use of the word "persons." They claim that God is one person manifest as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Nevertheless, they maintain the co-equality of the Godhead.
emeandme 4 years ago
But didn't Jay Smith himself admit in his video that 1 John 5:7-8 are not found in earliest manuscripts i.e. it is a later addition.
Now if that is true, then where do you christians find the concept of trinity in the bible??
aimalkhan 4 years ago
The rest will have to wait for eternity to be fully understood.There are also those who generally accept the principals of trinity but object to the use of the word "Trinity." This is known as the Apostolic or Oneness view. They prefer to use the word "godhead," which is found in the King James Version of the Bible (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9) rather than "Trinity, which is not found in the Bible
emeandme 4 years ago
The problem we have comprehending something like this is that man is a finite or limited, being that uses a finite language to describe what he sees around him. God on the other hand is infinite or unlimited. So when you try to understand an infinite God using the finite language of finite man, you run into problems. We should seek to understand everything we can about God, but at the same time, realize that what we need to know about God, God has openly revealed to us.
emeandme 4 years ago
well said
twnky1 4 years ago
God is: one living God manifest in the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, co-equal and co-eternal. He is holy, infinite, eternal, unchangeable, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and the creator of all things. Although we may not fully understand these things, we know this is what the Bible says and we accept what we know by faith
emeandme 4 years ago
The idea of the trinity is that God exists as three persons. They are not three separate "gods," but rather the same one God. This is why any understanding of the trinity must be coupled with the concept of co-equality and co-eternity. In other words once you make one portion of the godhead less or greater than the other you have created more than one God
emeandme 4 years ago
Nevertheless, to say that there are three Gods is blasphemy and violates one of the most cardinal teachings of both Judaism and Christianity, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Dt.6:4 NIV).
emeandme 4 years ago
MAY I ADD-yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live .1 Corinthians 8:6
forlatagate 4 years ago
So there are only two of them now? Where is the third god? You Christians are so confusing!!!
Gambaronee 4 years ago
maybe you are confused about the bible as it only talks about 2 gods the god of this world(satan)and the father the bible did not say jesus is god or the holy spirit if you believe that all 3 are god then you are decieved-muslims argue about jesus being the son of god and they argue about him being god pls make up your minds
forlatagate 4 years ago
What?!?!?!?! What that abracadabra was about?!
You should stop drinking. Alcohol is not good for you.
Gambaronee 4 years ago
whatever-maybe ppl that speak intelligence are alcoholic in your eyes or maybe its just that you have no clue about the bible if i'm wrong them prove what you saying about 2 or 3 gods in the bible if not grow up,start by finding the word trinity-good luck
forlatagate 4 years ago
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live .1 Corinthians 8:6
forlatagate 4 years ago
Sorry Mr. Intelligence, you are contradicting your own scriptures. You say THREE but your scripture says TWO. Where is the Holly Spirit?! Up in your sleeve?!
Gambaronee 4 years ago
show me the scriptures to prove your point if you cannot stop wasting time
forlatagate 4 years ago
Oh, you are so funny Mr. Intelligence!
1 Corinthians 8:6 talks about "one God, the Father" and "one Lord Jesus". So I was asking where the third guy - the Holly Ghost. Where is he? Why they are not tri - united here? And why you are saying tree but quoting a verse which talks about only two?
This is what I meant when I said that you Christians are confusing.
Gambaronee 4 years ago
first i'm not a christian second its wise to read 1 corinth you will find your answers in it--not sure about your 3 theory if you cannot understand that the bible talks about one god instead of imaginary religious ideas (3 gods etc)you have no hope-i am still waiting for you to prove your point
forlatagate 4 years ago
This is a question that has baffled theologians for centuries. We probably will never completely comprehend this issue until we are united with God in heaven. Just as the Apostle Paul said, "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (2Cor.14:12 NIV).
emeandme 4 years ago
How can God be one yet exist as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the Trinity?
emeandme 4 years ago
We have diffrent interpertations, I am more of a Gnostic at heart, so forgive me if I offended you. My you find peace with God, or whatever gives you hope and morals.
Peace be with you
ozzcda 4 years ago
Read verse 24???
ozzcda 4 years ago
I agree that he is talking about future events, but he says that "this genearation will not pass away until all thses things are fulfilled" the disiples were the only ones there when he said that?
ozzcda 4 years ago
yes you are right but do not get confused about then and the future,one thing when he was going to be crucified some one did mention about the temple being destroyed and raised up again in 3 days but jesus was talking about himself,so others were aware of his comments besides his disiples
forlatagate 4 years ago
Excellent thank you brother
ozzcda 4 years ago
peace be with you always
forlatagate 4 years ago
Jesus said he would return and that generation would not pass away before he second coming, has Jesus second coming happend? Nope, so he was wrong about this generation not passing away before those events, read the whole chapter. How is my info false, are you calling the NT false?
ozzcda 4 years ago
maybe your tired,why your having problems understanding what your reading,if your not tired read again,i know your making a mistake
forlatagate 4 years ago
You said that he never lied, I agree with that part of your statment. I think that people misquoted him. I recomend that you read "From Jesus to Chrisianity" by White, and "Misquoting Jesus" by Ehrman. Both are really good. Thank you for the great debat, and may peace be with you!
ozzcda 4 years ago
WHAT DEBATE?I HAVE NOT STARTED YET
forlatagate 4 years ago
He is wrong in Mark chapter 13, when he says that the generation that is present will not pass away(die) before the End Times. Mark 13:30, obviously they all died, and we are all here, hence no End Times, Jesus was wrong.
ozzcda 4 years ago
YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOUR READING DO YOU
forlatagate 4 years ago
He changed his mind about using the swords. He was wrong about the End Times. Why do you tell me I don't know what I'm reading, perhaps you should read.
Peace
ozzcda 4 years ago
Luke 22:36 selling cloak to by a sword,yea and and what, Mark 13:30talking about a building that did get destroyed by the romans,common jesus never lied you have false info
forlatagate 4 years ago
Some think that it refers to the destruction of the Temple, but what about that fact that the prophesy is about the End Times. Read the whole chapter!
ozzcda 4 years ago
he was blantantly talking about the temple as well as future events
forlatagate 4 years ago
What about the Son of Man(Jesus) coming on the clouds, in all the power and glory? Nation against naion, sounds like the Book of Rev. My NIV notes says that this is reference to the End Times
ozzcda 4 years ago
the bible speaks more about the end times than anything else OT to NT,and yes verse 24 is on the same parralel as revelation just like isiah and many other books
forlatagate 4 years ago
Thank you for talking with me may peace be with you!
ozzcda 4 years ago
my pleasure,nothing you said offended me nothing does,i'm way pass that level
forlatagate 4 years ago
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man to be capricious, or a mortal to change his mind. Would he speak and not act, promise and not fulfil? There are many verses were Jesus said something was going to happen and he was wrong. Sorry pal, he also changed his mind.
ozzcda 4 years ago
why are you sorry?tell me the verse were jesus said something and was wrong,this will be a good laugh,i have a lifetime for this answer,pal
forlatagate 4 years ago
You said that Jesus never changed his mind. Go to Luke 22:36 and read on about Jesus telling the disiples to buy swords(11) and then says 2 is enough. Then in the Garden he says not to use them. He changed his mind?????
ozzcda 4 years ago
SO WHAT DID HE CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT
forlatagate 4 years ago
if you have a bible read john chapter 1 onwards that explains jesus in coralation with god.and if you knew the true maassage of christ then you would know that john 1.12 explains who we are and that is not children adam.and the bible never says god is a trinty he has a counsel or hosts,GOD JESUS,HOLY SPIRIT WORK TOGETHER IN ONE LOVE AND AGREEMENT thats why he and the father is one-one love-one unity.you see me you see the father.
forlatagate 4 years ago
1John: Agreement is diffrent then the KJV's "These three are one". The RSV and NIV bibles take out that verse altogther. The first verse of the gospel of John is his narrative not the words of Jesus. If god is a Trinity then why don't Jews believe that, my Jew friends do not. He is one!
ozzcda 4 years ago
where in the bible is the word trinity?
forlatagate 4 years ago
Awesome job using Jays words agaisnt him. The Trinity is not inspired of God nor was it taught by the 1st cen Christians. It was a invention of the churchfathers in the 3rd and 4th cen. God is one(1 Tim 2:5). 1 Cor 11:3 shows that Jesus was in a lesser position then the Father at ALL times.
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
The bible is the inspired word of God. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Philippians 2:11 omg, Jesus said that to his people to. And No One believe Him. He was stoned for being blashphemy. Nali, your one of them. U like criticizing the bible informing its error. Its called Higher/Lower Criticism.
gearzone2611 4 years ago
Friend let me ask you a stupid question, a book of god would be with every person of god right? a book of god would be unchanged right? tell me is that true with your bible? answer to both questions is no, the average christian does NOT have an "original" bible, and what they have has been changed so yeah i will critizide the authenticity of the book.
naliakbar 4 years ago
question number one my answer NO! i woudnt say unchanged i would say altered by anti-christ. true my bible, its the preserved word of God. we dont need the original bible. I only need the preserved word of God. When Moses broke the two tablets. God made another two tablets. It wasnt the Original One but was the Still Exact words of God. So Whats ur point?
gearzone2611 4 years ago
God you guys cant understand pure english, what i am saying is that the average christian does not have the "original" bible the one that is in hebrew or what ever language they are in, and because of that it is easy to mis-translate something and pass it off as religion. that is my point,.
naliakbar 4 years ago
lol christians DO NOT have the Original Text! who would ever read HEbrew language today anyway? ask the scholars/theologians, they can help! ...the Original bible was written in Greek! well as what Jesus said: Heaven and Earth shall pass away but my word will Still remain FOREVER! Now thats Something!
gearzone2611 4 years ago
can you read and understand english? i said "in hebrew or what ever language they are in, and because of that it is easy to mis-translate something and pass it off as religion" so i could care less if it was is greek or Freek it doesnt matter, if you have to go to a scholar to get the meaning, it means that that scholor controls your future in faith, which is why i say it is easy to change your religion.
naliakbar 4 years ago
so i guess you have nothing to say?
gearzone2611 4 years ago
no i do have something to say, but you are not listening. hopefully you open your ears and listen before your last day on the face of the earth.
naliakbar 4 years ago
how is jesus son of a man when he comes from the seed of the woman and not the seed of a man?
forlatagate 4 years ago
jinns are demons and they are the real inspiration of the quran they appear as angels of light mohamed accepted them as he was a agnostic of his days -hunufa quote from the glorious quran(at makkah),try and deny that if you do then it just shows that you do not believe in your own book
forlatagate 4 years ago
Actually Jinn are made of fire and Angels are made of light, big diffrence. Allah is the inspiration for the Quran, not sure were you think Demons inspired it, I think you are reading Middle Age European Christian commentators.
ozzcda 4 years ago
Jinn are made of fire and Angels are made of light,true satan is made from fire angels from light of god,think as much as you like cos you are wrong
forlatagate 4 years ago
one muslim(fot) said to me that jacob wrestled with god and he pointed out the verse to me if god cannot become a man then who did jacob or what did jacob wrestle against,if you disagree with him it just goes to show that muslims do not know what they are talking about except contradictions themselfs
forlatagate 4 years ago
That is not a Muslim problem but the problem with the Bible completley. Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man. So I don't know about Jacob. Some Jewish friends of mine told me that the story was Jacob wrestling with the angel of God, but who knows. Son of Man was a title that was to be given to the Messiah, so of course Jesus would call himself that. That story of Jacob wrestling god is not in the Quran btw.
ozzcda 4 years ago
of course its not in the quran, made up books never contain the full truth/history and its a muslim problem alright and don't tell what your friends say what do you say?did not muhamed say go to the people of the books,if you are going to comment on the bible at least read it first and you may not sound stupid.the quran is made up of the OT and the lost books of the bible with fairytales,ie noahs 4th son with no name allah the moon god splits the moon in half i can go on,but?daughters of allah
forlatagate 4 years ago
Numbers 23:19 god is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should change his mind,muslims love twisting the truth why?jesus never lied nor changed his mind.try harder pal
forlatagate 4 years ago
ERROR, you should study Christians. Or the bible-believing people. Even experts would say that Jesus Christ is God Himself. They would plainly say that Mohamad butchered so many innocents people. You need evidence? Read Quran and the Hadith their books!
gearzone2611 5 years ago
tell me where in jesus' living life he said "I AM GOD" not i am the son of god, because may prophets before him were given that title as well.. so tell me in his living life where he said that in your bible?
naliakbar 5 years ago
Im not sure if you read the bible though. Omg, read the New Testament. Oh man.. concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord ..God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. try reading please. believe not?
gearzone2611 4 years ago
this is the basis of your faith, without it you are not a christian, you ask me where in the quran god says he is one, i say go to sura 112, so tell me where in jesus' living life he said he was god or to worship him as the son of god.
naliakbar 4 years ago
the bible is the inspired word of God. The apostles are the witnesses of Jesus Christ' birth and ressurection. They are the disciples of Christ Jesus. They are the forefathers of Christianity. They wrote down the bible; they were moved by the HOly Spirit of God. So yeah read the whole passage of 1 John. You'll know. Logical reasons but having no perspective from where I stand is very useless. So thanks!
gearzone2611 4 years ago
Yes we believe that he was born through devine intervention, just like adam was created from devine intervention... so unless you call adam god, jesus was less than adam since he needed a woman to come to earth adam didnt.
naliakbar 5 years ago
Your arguments lead to anger in your heart which creates hate and instead of living life out of love you are guided by the evil one.
djsmooth1 5 years ago
And no wonder for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then if his servents masquerade as servents of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. "never force your belifs on another it is better to lend a hand then to force it.
djsmooth1 5 years ago
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lords servents must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
djsmooth1 5 years ago
m1/3
your god even goes to deep sleep.
psalm 78:65 65 Then the Lord woke up as if he had been sleeping.
He gets sad , repent and even take a revenge from animals too
gen 6:6-7 to be sorry(nasb)/repented (kjv) grieve to make man and wipe them off
your god even goes to deep sleep.
psalm 78:65 Then the Lord woke up as if he had been sleeping.He was like a man waking up from the deep sleep caused by wine. (NI Reader's version)
123onlyfacts 5 years ago
m2/3
he gets tired and exhausted
rested and refreshed(kjv) (exodus31:17)
sometimes he does smoking too.what a fiery and smoky God ?psam18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it.
sam18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it
123onlyfacts 5 years ago
m3/3
I don't know why he gets drunk .maybe he is his sons have been gone for having sex with the daughters of man to make giants- gen 6:6-7 to be sorry(nasb)/repented (kjv) grieve to make man and wipe them off
-rested and refreshed(kjv) (exodus31:17) ask yourself when you need rest?
-god defeated but unable to pushed the enemies out of land (judges1:19)
that explains the truth for your jigsaw God that you like to pick the pieces of unable/weak gods. Be happy with it!
123onlyfacts 5 years ago
actually, christianity tells us that children are not responsible for their salvation yet. people who have never heard about jesus unfortuantely do not go to heaven but in the bible, there is a knowing factor. God will not punish that person as hard as he would a drunk that has access to a church and other christian resources that refuses to believe in jesus.
iwilleatyou6 5 years ago
but punish them none the less. do you think this is fair from a 'loving god' that christians claim him to be?
naliakbar 5 years ago
well, to counter that, other people wrote it down for him. muhhammed just told them what to write. we may not have access to abraham but according to islam, ishmael was a muslim. let me ask something. how was ishmael a muslim even though muhammed did not come until much later?
iwilleatyou6 5 years ago
a muslim is one who follows islam, islam means submission to the one true god, so this is how he can be called a muslim. even adam was a muslim because he submitted his will to one true god. let me ask you can you ever think about calling moses christian? you cannot. but i can call him a muslim.
naliakbar 5 years ago
By definition of the word not by the religion/faith. Moses was a hebrew or jew. If another religion/faith says that 'sabino' means submission in their religion/faith they can claim the same thing, yet it doesn't mean Moses is a 'sabino'. lol The religious term islam/muslim did not exist in the time from adam to the time arabic became a language. Legally by definition of the faith nobody can be called a muslim/islam 'til the time of muhammad. tada
RinnEgade 5 years ago
see that is when you make up a name but even if you go to an arab speaking christian and ask him what is a muslim traslate to it is one who submits to the will of god, so the term muslim has been around before islam as a religion.
naliakbar 5 years ago
Modern Standard Arabic derives from Classical Arabic, the only surviving member of the Old North Arabian dialect group, attested epigraphically since the 6th century, which has been a literary language and the liturgical language of Islam since the 7th century.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
If i go to another culture altogether they'll call 'god' by their name: Maasai name for "God" is Ngai. Bhagavan "The Opulent One", Brahman "The Great", Paramatma "The Supersoul" & Ishvara "The Controller", are the terms used for God in the Vedas. So if u go to speak to massai ppl u would have to use their word 'ngai'. In your mind u mean 'allah' but in the massai mind u would come across to them as meaning their 'god'.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
see the catch is their god is not one.
naliakbar 5 years ago
U miss my whole point. It's not the 'catch'. It's the wording other cultures use in their consciousness to describe their god or ascribe worship to him, etc. In some of those other cultures they have only 1 god also.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
you and even muslims ( islam's muslims that is ) miss the whole point about this as long as someone believes in one god, follows godly priciples and know that everything comes from god, dont ascribe partners to him, my belief is that they will enter heaven because they are muslims be it that they accept muhammad or not. but once they know islam they will see it is the same god, that their prophet told them about and join islam.
naliakbar 5 years ago
So if they have 1 god & follow their own heathen practices which in their own views is 'godly', & they already view everything as coming from a god they'll achieve heaven? Sure they're already 'submitting' to a god which would be considered 'islam' by muslim definition but it's still another god. that's not a very good analogy actually. whatever works...
RinnEgade 5 years ago
Godly principles we can say is more or less the 10 commandments. So yeah as long as they are not associating a partner to god, and treating others as they would like to be treated. As for the name of god, well in arabic it is called Allah, for english it is God in Lithuanian it is Dievas. But it all means GOD so what ever they call god doesn't change faith in the same god.
naliakbar 5 years ago
Good grief. I'm implying ppl that live far in the jungles of south america, places that nobody or very few modernized ppl have been to. We're not just talking about the word they use for 'god' the object in their mind called 'god'. Some ppl worship money, sex, food, self, gold, alcohol, etc. If u go up to an alcoholic that worships alcohol & u say talk about their god, they're going to show u a bottle of alcohol. Get it?
RinnEgade 5 years ago
does your alcohol bottle god teach the godly principles? no. does your god sex teach about godly princ? NO. some jungle people say god is light and follow godly princ. my opinion is that they will be in heaven.
naliakbar 5 years ago
That analogy would be stupendously in error then. U missed the whole boat on this concept then.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
where is the error? because it doesnt matter what you call god, as long as it is god as i know him to be i believe that person will be in paradise, see this is the thing with christianity if a person never hears aobut jesus how will he go to heaven? a child never heard about jesus what about them? islam has an answer but christianity does not.
naliakbar 5 years ago
That's just it. 'as long as it is god as i know him' We're talking about ppl who DON'T know him as u say u know him. How can u say islam has an answer when u can't even understand this simple concept of someone living in south america, ie, who worships quetzlcoatl as their 1 god. like arguing w/ignorance w/u.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
i dont have an issue. i just dont belive in the quran. i believe in the bible. but, it seems like we are not going to convince each other using our religious books so we must go by history. artifacts and records dictate that that abraham actually lived in cannan.
iwilleatyou6 5 years ago
friend i understand where you are comming from, but unfortunately we dont have access to abraham, you cant show me any miricles of jesus today that i cant show you from some other religion. i know i can show you the miricle of muhammad which was the quran a book revealed to a person that could not read or write. it is the word of god with us till the end of time.
naliakbar 5 years ago
read the context of the verse. do you think jesus was talking about that time in the past. Jesus was cleary talking about the future because one of the disciples asked what the end of time would be like. Then jesus starts talking about it and then this generation {referring to the end of time generation} "this" in this context is "this" generation that will have all of these prophecies. look at the context of the verse. see, i am right.
iwilleatyou6 5 years ago
it is interesting that you would all of a sudden realize that there is context to go with that statement but will have an issue when we say the same thing about a verse in the quran.
naliakbar 5 years ago
U still haven't answered the question properly. What would be your relationship to this 'body' that u have created for yourself to walk around in & talk to ppl?
RinnEgade 5 years ago
well first of we know that differnt matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time, so i would not be able to create flesh over my invisible flesh most i would be able to do is create skin to my invisible body.
naliakbar 5 years ago
Different matter? U mean same matter. There is spirit & there is flesh. Create flesh over invisible flesh? Ever seen a dead body? Where's their invisible spirit? We're talking about 2 different 'substances'. Flesh is not spirit & spirit is not flesh? Do u agree w/that?
RinnEgade 5 years ago
test
naliakbar 5 years ago
my friend have you seen your spirit? i believe we are spirits controling the body we have, but your question was if i was invisible, not as a spirit.
naliakbar 5 years ago
for the arguement you are using i say ok i will bite that you are spirit in flesh, but now this flesh you want me to swallow was born of a woman did just happen so how do you explain that? and i have you know adam is what you are talking about sprit to flesh
naliakbar 5 years ago
Whew. Yes. Ever seen yourself in a dream? What's your relationship to the body of flesh that u have created to put your spiritual body in?
RinnEgade 5 years ago
i see myself in my dream and i see others in my dream as well, but they dont see me in their dream so how do you explain that? im sure that there is more to dreams but for the most part is it your brain functioning on (to use computer terms) defraging your information of the waking hours.
naliakbar 5 years ago
Still avoiding the question. What's your relationship to the body of flesh that u have created/formed/made to put your spiritual body into?
RinnEgade 5 years ago
the body would be a created body like you said in your question and it would be where my spirit resides, but that does not say the body is me in so saying the name of the created body is not the name for me
naliakbar 5 years ago