I agree... It also puts that being stalked is 'romantic' to young girls. And I tried reading it... Poorly written, and a TON of spelling errors... Who edited it? I mean seriously...
What's so horrible about twilight is that unwittingly encourages teen pregnancy, irrationally moody behaviour, and for young girls to play the damsel in distress. I used to like it, only because my friends kept leaving me out because of i hadn't watched it. I'm fourteen now and with all the differant music, movies, books and animes I've watched I know how stupid it is to like something just to please someone. Twilight is just so poorly written, I just can't bear to look at it anymore
making out that being white is the perfect way to be also shows how meyer stands on the terms of race she obviously favours the white race more than any other the bitch
Edward would have never been interested in Bella if she didn't have good-smelling blood and mind-reader blockage. Even in the book it said he doesn't date other girls. This only proves that Edward likes Bella cause she smells good, not because she's a really good person. This also proves they're not in love, but in LUST. Bella's reasons for loving Edward seem to not go beyond anything but his looks and wealth. Is this what true love is? Based on looks and scent? BAN TWILIGHT!
Also, the whole Edward not looking anyother girl in over 100 years, even though he's 17? That doesnt make sense, because even at that age, Hormones still take over once in a while. That and most of the story, is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY unrealistic. Makes me wonder what was Meyer truly thinking when she thought of Bella and Edward's characters and relationship.
This is very helpful, because i'm trying to think of ways to describe my character for a story i'm writing, and i dont wanna write a mary-sue. Things I have to avoid, and examplesw that were well put. Thanks. ^^
This is an amazingly accurate account of Bella and her Mary Sueism. I don't mean to sound like a stupid helpless nag, but could you (if you have time) review my fanfiction characters? I can send you their profiles and some writing samples. Litmus tests contradict each other and friends will never point out a bad character...
I do agree with you with the Bella being a sue but the name part doesn't really count as a valid agrument. Even if the name is based on the author's name, it's just a name which is used for real people. Also the name Bella doesn't mean much. Take my name Emmy. Despite the spelling, it's meant to be Japanese so it should be spelt like this "Emi". With the chosen characters, Emi would mean E= Blessed Mi= Beauty. That doesn't make me a mary sue. Other than that, I agree with you.
@mewmewlunar What I understand about the name thing is that even if "Bella" is really just a common given name, you gotta admit it lacks creativity on the part of the author. "Bella" really just sounds too easy, especially considering that she's meant to be "beautiful all along". ...
@jusk8lp the meaning "beauty" isn't really uncommon. My mother's name has meaning "beauty" in it as well but the surname "swan"?. The author really needs to find some better surnames.
@mewmewlunar Yeah, I realize what you're saying. What I'm trying to point out, however, is that "Bella", coupled with the surname "Swan", is not subtle at all. You're right; "Bella" would have been okay; "Swan" just made it too easy like I said. And besides, even if you and your mom got similar names, that's besides the point.
the twilight books read like a list- filled with boring, childlike, stilted prose. even sickness -inducing purple prose would be better. it would at least be fun to make fun of.
BYU has thousands of students (I used to live in Salt Lake City and had many friends who attended.) If even 4 guys out of the 3000-5000 guys there asked her out that's not even 1%. Statistically, if Meyers was comparing Bella's experience to hers no one should've asked her out.
I appreciate your intelligent review of Twilight. I consider myself smart, but I don't have the time and the spot on knowledge like you do to dissect the book.
Twilight is basicly a written down version of how Stephanie Meyer wished her high school life was like. Where she is pretty, thin, everybody adores her, guys love her, and she is basicly perfect. Edward is her perfect guy, the Cullens are her perfect family, and Renesmee is her perfect child. Perfect perfect perfect
There are a lot of Mary-Sues in fiction, it makes the main chararcter more interesting. Why read about a totally 'normal' person. I like them, as a well as Gary-Sues, to a point. I don't like Super Mary/Gary-Sues though.
A character that is perfect is pointless, they have nothing interesting about them at all. If they are perfect, why should you care what happens to them?
If you're going to fail the Mary Sue litmus test, than the more characters you fail it with the better. Because if one fails, than theres a higher chance that that one can warp the canon to focus on her or him , but if like four or more fail, than it's likely to a flaw in the test itself than in your characters.
@burningpegasus As a writer myself I don't doubt your statement... I'm working on bringing my character "Luciami" out of mary-suism in fact, and it's not really that complicated...
Most Sues have flaws. Ditto Stus. Most are far from perfect anyway. The only difference is that those flaws are never acknowledged to be flaws by the author. This is the very essence of Mary Sue. It is anything that is done for the sake of author indulgence, and not for the sake of the story.
So lets say you have a chapter of Bella dancing like Michael jackson and her getting rapturous applause for a talent contest - in Twilight. That would be Mary Sue at her finest.
I'll never see Bella Swan the same way... watching this video, it makes you think on how Mary Sueish a character who was supposed to be plain and simple can become.
I lol'd at the realization that Bella was the only one he ever loved. In over 100 years. Never thought of anyone sexually. Ever. Even in his teenage years when the hormones kick in and guys think of sex like crazy (well...more than usual). That's some hardcore restraint there...
In my first year of highschool I was being hit on by this kid I didn`t really like. I don`t hate the guy, but I wasn`t attracted to him either. But he would come to see me at lunch and start conversations with me anyway, and I didn`t like that. Is it ridiculous to think that a girl wouldn`t want that kind of attention? It`s a bit flattering to know someone likes you, but the affect it sort of lost when the guy is a weirdo with whom you have nothing in common.
may i suggest putting all of your videos in a playlist so they are easier to follow. i think your analys of twilight is very indepth and i really respect you for actually taking the time to make a detailed and serious argument to why twilight isnt a very good book and yet why so many people love it. most of the people i know just say TWILIGHT SUCKS and give no reason or thought on why. good job and keep up the good work.
More direct quotes. And you've hit the characteristics of a Sue dead on. I entered this book expecting a good story. I came out of it feeling like I wanted to read fan fiction to clear my mind. Mary Sue= a hard story to make good. And the skin. Isn't it kind of rare to have 'ivory' skin?
I mean, as soon as she walks in, she wants to be ignored and to blend in with everyone, and ironically everyone wants her. Its the stupidest thing ive ever read.
In my school, the new girl is completely and utterly invisible for at least the first couple of weeks, you want friends? You gotta make the fist move.
Like I said, I can agree with you about Bella being a sort of Mary Sue, but I still haven't understood why that necessarily is bad. To me, she's maybe more of an archetype. I see the Twilight Saga as more of a fairytale with basic themes, not something to be interpreted in a social realistic view. Most, or all, of the fairytales we know from childhood have Mary Sues as female main characters.
You don't model your life after Romeo and Juliet's destiny. That's my take on it anyway.
Well, yes, but fairy tales give a snapshot of the culture that they're from, and they have lots of sociological influence. There have been a whole lot of studies about this.
Besides, Mary Sues are the mark of a lazy author. it's difficult to write realistic, human characters.
With respect, it's IMPOSSIBLE to write realistic human characters. They're far too complicated and confusing (even to themselves) for that to occur. And I think a lot of us forget that as interesting as characters may be, the story is supposed to be the star. If i'm enjoying what's going on in the story, I don't particularly care how archetypal the characters are.
It's very difficult to write realistic human characters, but many authors over the years have come very, very, close. Even authors who use archetypes manage to do it much better than Meyers (Tusquets, Cervantes, Clarin, Marquez). Using a character that is basically a Mary Sue isn't just using an archetype. It's lazy.
I agree with your comments about how Bella is described. It annoyed me, but I was able to overlook that because I loved the story of the books. I've actually grown to like Bella after re-reading the books. About boys flocking to her, she's described as the "shiny new toy". All the students have gone to school together for several years, so when a new person arrives, it's exciting both for the boys and girls.
Hmm...well, Noah in the sensational novel The Notebook has only ever loved one person in his eighty years of life: Allie. I guess that's a truly terrible book as well!
WOW! So she attended a college that is generally known as a place to major in finding a husband! Strange that MORE WOMEN DON'T ATTEND THIS AMAZING SCHOOL!
Is the tuition too high?
Are the living conditions bad?
Do the professors suck?
Or could it simply be that this school only exists in the minds of Twilight haters?
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Hey shmeiliarockie, Edward can't read her mind because if he could, NO DIALOGUE WOULD OCCUR IN THE STORY AND WE WOULDN'T KNOW WTF WAS GOING ON!! Ever consider that fundamental problem with writing about a mind reader? Apparently not. Much easier to just say it was inserted to make Bella unique, rather than to make fundamental parts of the story work!
Hmm....I guess snotty, preppy bitches feel like the queens of the world if getting asked by just one guy is enough to send them over the top, cause I'm guessing they get asked out A LOT!
Wait...there is another possibility: the logic here is FLAWED!
I'm not really sure that having three guys ask you to a dance really qualifies as proof that "All the Boys Flock to Her." Having three boys ask you to a dance when approximately 500-1000 people attend the school is hardly favorable odds. (But hey, I'm a guy gamer, so what would I know about that.)
Actually...Forks is a small town...there are few students in the school, so, therefore, few guys. Anyways, Edward the *mind reader* admits that most of the 'sheep' men want her. Really, pay attention to what you read and defend.
your argumentation is flawless. If a twitard sees this and still insists on his/her blind adoration for the series... there's indeed no hope for humanity...
James didn't leave her alone because he's a tracker. Since she was the only human on the baseball field when the "evil" vampires showed up, she was the only human he could track. He didn't fixate on her because she smells good; he fixated on her because he likes playing games and tracking "snacks" down.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Where the hell are you reading this from!? None of the books say that. I've read them 3 times so don't doubt me. Plus no one can penetrate Bella's mind. This includes Aro, Jane, Alec, EDWARD, and multiple others. That is her "super natural power" when i first moved to CT 4 guys asked me out on the same day. not unrealistic.
"when i first moved to CT 4 guys asked me out on the same day. not unrealistic"
You can't generalise your personal experiences to the rest of the world's population. Therefore your claim that the situation is "not unrealistic" is not valid.
And those who consider it unrealistic for a girl to be asked out three/four times in a single day shouldn't generalize their opinions as facts either! Have you--or for that matter--weazly13--actually done any research to back up these claims?
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, and I'm not really trying to be rude, but if you're going to make a comment like, "You can't generalize your personal experience to the rest of the world," you have to remember it swings both ways.
What are you talking about? I wasn't stating my opinion on the matter. I was pointing out a rather obvious logical fallacy in the "argument", a fallacy of faulty generalization, more specifically 'Hasty generalization' : the act of reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. In this case the 'insufficient evidence' would be the '4 guys asked me out on the same day' part of the argument.
The fact that weazly13 is basing their conclusion, (the situation not being unrealistic), on this small piece of 'evidence' alone makes this a 'hasty generalization'.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'it swings both ways', but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong in my analysis here.
LOL I wasn't exactly saying that your analysis was wrong. I was simply saying that weazly was basing his/her opinion on a generalization. I was simply saying that you should be sure YOUR statement isn't a generalization either. If it isn't, you're right, but if it IS, you're doing the same thing weazly is. That's all I was saying.
Okay, then you're right. I'm just saying that because we don't get to see the evidence to back up your statement, there's no way for us to KNOW whether it's a generalization or not unless you show us the evidence. And maybe weazly13 actually has evidence besides an anecdote to back up his/her claim as well.
Basically, I was just asking you to prove your point, but that doesn't mean I think you're lying or even wrong.
Does that make sense? Or am I explaining this horribly? Hope not! :)
I think I understand what you're saying now, but I don't think you understand what I mean. My comment isn't in the same category as weazly13's. I wasn't giving a counter argument to their claim, merely pointing out the fault in it. You say that I need evidence to back up my statement, but my statement is widely recognised as a common flaw in debating.
It's not a generalization of any kind as I am not drawing a conclusion about the general population based on it. Does that make sense? So I don't need to provide evidence to prove my statement is not a generalization, because I never made any generalization in the first place. If you meant evidence to back up my analysis of 'generalization fallacy', I've already provided enough information in my previous comments.
1. Whether or not I agree with weazly13's statement here is not the issue. My statement is neither agreeing nor disagreeing. I was just pointing out that it was a weak argument.
2. My statement is not a generalization. I don't know where you got that from, but the fact is that it's not. It is not constructed like an argument like weazly13's.
Hope I've made myself clear. :) Sorry for the long comments.
I will admit my PDF may not be 100% accurate, but unless you're willing to donate your books to me there's no way in hell I'm obtaining the series. I will not support Meyer's crappy writing with my hard-earned money.
Wait wait wait You haven't even read the books? And you're criticizing them? Why not actually READ the books to gather your evidence?
And please don't say that Meyer's writing is crappy like it's a fact. Say "I THINK she's a crappy writer." (Go ahead: call me anal, but it bugs the hell out of me!)
Sorry weazly13. I just checked the books, and everything she's said so far is true. Wish it wasn't, cause I'm a fan of Twilight, but she's right about this one.
No, I didn't turn them down because I wanted to feel like Isabella, I turned them down because I'm gay. Think before you type please. It would be much appreciated.
I wasn't talking about thinking about how I might be gay, I was talking about how you said I wanted to be like Bella. Why would anyone want to be like Bella. She's boring and depressing and exudes the essence of 'I want to kill myself'. And I'm not stupid. And I don't care if people call me a dyke. I am.
@weazly13 Okay, I agree with you on that last part; some girls really do have guys flocking to them. That's not unrealistic; but I'd assume you're pretty attractive, right? Bella refers to herself as 'plain,' but apparently nobody else thinks so. The fact that a supposedly 'plain' girl would get the attention of almost every boy in her new school and have two supernatural beings fight for her love makes it far fetched at best.
This is awesome. I totally agree, and coming back to the point about Mary Sue's getting truckloads of reviews; I have seen stories for FMA fanfic, where the girl came transmute without a circle and all that, and then falls in love with him. Who wants to read that? Atm, I'm writing fanfic, and I think even my stuff is better than Twilight. And I did do self insertation once, for humour. Got 25 reviews for 4 chapters.
BYU isn't as bad as you make it sound, though a lot of couples do get married while attending. (I live in Utah) Other then that, you are dead on. Bella is the worst Mary Sue ever, and Twilight sucks.
Yes, BYU's female student body is really only there for pairing up with the male student body. It's called getting an "MRS." degree, and SMeyer went there for that exact reason. She just didn't end up with an "Edward"-type guy...
Yes, I've heard of the Mrs. Degree. Sadly, it's not unique to BYU by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of young women strive to attain it instead of an education.
Thank goodness she didn't end up with and Edward type. Nobody deserves that.
@shmeiliarockie After looking up what an MRS degree is I've gotta say that's just stupid... No wonder Meyer sets feminism back a few hundred years in this book....
Actually, I do know plenty of women over a NUMBER of years who've attended BYU for that exact reason, thank you very much. There's no doubt in my mind that SM attended that specific University so she could marry a member of the LDS church. Otherwise, she would have gone to a different school.
And, since when did I EVER say that I know everything? You just show me the evidence.
My apologies. I didn't mean for that to seem so rude.
I'm just frustrated because it seems like everyone I talk to on YouTube wants to simplify everything into a "Good vs. Evil" game. I feel many of them do this because it's easier than acknowledging how truly complicated our world is. (I might say it's intellectual laziness.)
You never said that you know everything, and I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that. It shows you're more open-minded than a lot of people I've spoken to. :)
Once more I applaud you and I think I am going to be doing that for awhile seeing how good your points are and the way you point it out without going around it in circle... did that make sense ?
lol, your little "majoring in finding a husband" put me in tears at work. I'm not surprised though. Colleges like that should have a ban on those not there to learn. I mean, it's hard enough trying to get into college, but to be sent away cause some girl is going there trying to find her meal ticket? They can go on Craig's list like everyone else.
And I applaud your use of going down the list and visually showing how many column Bella fits into.
I try not to comment on "the Mrs. degree" because once I get started it' s hard to stop. To summarize: I agree with you. College is for learning and growing as a person. If you happen to find love while doing it, that's perfectly okay. But if looking for somebody is the whole reason why you went you don't deserve to be there. But that's just my opinion.
so she smells like flowers and all the vampires want to eat her? last time i checked, most flowers were decorative plants and not for eating. I know lavender smells good, but not in an eatable way.
*puts on my rabid fan hat* You just don't understand! She smells wooonderful. (Stephenie says so!) Of course they want to eat her and not projectile vomit every time she walks by. She's SPESHUL. *takes it off again*
Im an English major and I agree with all your points. Myer is a complete vain self-insert. Hell, even in fan-fictions its not as bad as it is in Twilight.
Twilight makes most bad fanfiction look palatable by comparison. I would much rather read all forty-something chapters of My Immortal than trudge though Breaking Dawn again.
I am now a fan of yours, everything you just said in your videos is very interesting and got me thinking about Twilight. I always thought Twilight sucks and now i know it sucks times infinity ...
Frankly, I think Stephanie Meyer doesn't know write a book, all she wrote is just garbage.
The part about her experiencing a flock of guys after her, sounds like wishful thinking. LOL
Bellueh is so SPESHUL!!!1!one!!1
kztar621 2 weeks ago
Swarthy skin is where it's at
Thiefenz 3 weeks ago
@LucretziaVampyre Rascist. Simple as that.
001WindTalker 1 month ago
2:39 Oh wow, when I first read it, I thought he meant that they thought she looked ugly. XD I didn't think it meant THAT way!
HEARTLESSnumber9 4 months ago
fantastic lol. but i can't help but notice YOUR skin doesn't have any freckles or zits either xD
hollyhock18x7 5 months ago
@hollyhock18x7 LOL. Trust me, that's due to lighting and video quality. They're just not showing up.
shmeiliarockie 5 months ago
@shmeiliarockie lucky you xD
hollyhock18x7 5 months ago
@cashdown1000
I agree... It also puts that being stalked is 'romantic' to young girls. And I tried reading it... Poorly written, and a TON of spelling errors... Who edited it? I mean seriously...
TheNeonIcing 7 months ago
@TheNeonIcing I dont think jessica simpson can make that many speeling mistakes, and she mixes up chicken with tuna
cashdown1000 2 weeks ago
What's so horrible about twilight is that unwittingly encourages teen pregnancy, irrationally moody behaviour, and for young girls to play the damsel in distress. I used to like it, only because my friends kept leaving me out because of i hadn't watched it. I'm fourteen now and with all the differant music, movies, books and animes I've watched I know how stupid it is to like something just to please someone. Twilight is just so poorly written, I just can't bear to look at it anymore
cashdown1000 7 months ago
@cashdown1000 And tolerating abuse from boyfriends.
Twilight basically tells the girls: "He treats you like shit because he loves you".
kztar621 2 weeks ago
@kztar621 thank you i missed tolerating abuse from the long, long, looooooong list of reasons
cashdown1000 2 weeks ago
@cashdown1000 You're welcome.
kztar621 2 weeks ago
"As if he was made for her"
Which is actually true :P
Yemmuh4444 7 months ago
Oh, Edward can read her mind. There's just nothing there to hear.
GameSpazzer 8 months ago 11
@GameSpazzer That is a truly great comment.
LastStand2010 6 months ago
My brother said that the reason Edward couldn't read Bella's mind was because there was nothing in there to read.
KoraBloom 9 months ago 2
@KoraBloom *laughs* what a witty sibling!
lu4y4pants 8 months ago
I laughed so hard when I found out Bella's middle name is actually Marie.
xCOOKIECHAN 9 months ago
making out that being white is the perfect way to be also shows how meyer stands on the terms of race she obviously favours the white race more than any other the bitch
Chrisindapurplehouse 9 months ago
why doesnt her blood smell metalic like normal people
Chrisindapurplehouse 9 months ago
@Chrisindapurplehouse Because Mary Sue "ISelfInsertMyselfInCheapPorn" Meyer doesn't know a shit about biology or writing metaphors.
kztar621 2 weeks ago
If skin is translucent shouldnt we be able to see her insides, all those muscles and veins? Not very attractive in my humble opinion.
rainningstorm 11 months ago 8
Hur hur hur! xD
PuddingMewmewChan 1 year ago
Edward can't read her mind, because THERE'S NOTHING GOING ON IN THERE!!!
Iceclaw77 1 year ago 35
What have I learned about Mary Sues and Twilight today? A lot.. Mary Sue might as well be renamed "Bella Swan"
rikimaru700 1 year ago 6
KK: Can someone tell me what PDF stands for?
BBxAJxKK 1 year ago
@BBxAJxKK Portable Document Format
INTPTT 10 months ago
How can her skin be sallow and pallid at the same time?
babyparada2010 1 year ago
@babyparada2010 Pallid means pale. Sallow means sick and pale.
INTPTT 10 months ago
*high fives. You justified yourself very well.
MsFilmFan16 1 year ago
gosh Stephenie Meyer put the thesaurus down
daisyhinojosa23 1 year ago 3
Edward would have never been interested in Bella if she didn't have good-smelling blood and mind-reader blockage. Even in the book it said he doesn't date other girls. This only proves that Edward likes Bella cause she smells good, not because she's a really good person. This also proves they're not in love, but in LUST. Bella's reasons for loving Edward seem to not go beyond anything but his looks and wealth. Is this what true love is? Based on looks and scent? BAN TWILIGHT!
daisyhinojosa23 1 year ago
@daisyhinojosa23 AMEN TO THAT
1bulma1 1 year ago
i know way for a garry stu or marry sue to work in a fanfic but it only works for villains
silverbiometal 1 year ago
meyer keeps on saying bella is "plain," but read the graphic novel, that is NOT plain.
daisyhinojosa23 1 year ago
Also, the whole Edward not looking anyother girl in over 100 years, even though he's 17? That doesnt make sense, because even at that age, Hormones still take over once in a while. That and most of the story, is COMPLETELY and UTTERLY unrealistic. Makes me wonder what was Meyer truly thinking when she thought of Bella and Edward's characters and relationship.
Narutard81321 1 year ago
What the hell is Freshia?
This is very helpful, because i'm trying to think of ways to describe my character for a story i'm writing, and i dont wanna write a mary-sue. Things I have to avoid, and examplesw that were well put. Thanks. ^^
Narutard81321 1 year ago
@Narutard81321
Freshia is a type of flower. They're a type of flower used a lot in perfumes/body sprays (besides roses and lilacs)
Phoenixangelgal 1 year ago
This is an amazingly accurate account of Bella and her Mary Sueism. I don't mean to sound like a stupid helpless nag, but could you (if you have time) review my fanfiction characters? I can send you their profiles and some writing samples. Litmus tests contradict each other and friends will never point out a bad character...
chesiregirl 1 year ago
it's like meyer PURPOSELY made Bella a Mary-Sue!!!
daisyhinojosa23 1 year ago 3
Down with Bella!
WolfeGirl1 1 year ago
I do agree with you with the Bella being a sue but the name part doesn't really count as a valid agrument. Even if the name is based on the author's name, it's just a name which is used for real people. Also the name Bella doesn't mean much. Take my name Emmy. Despite the spelling, it's meant to be Japanese so it should be spelt like this "Emi". With the chosen characters, Emi would mean E= Blessed Mi= Beauty. That doesn't make me a mary sue. Other than that, I agree with you.
mewmewlunar 1 year ago 2
@mewmewlunar What I understand about the name thing is that even if "Bella" is really just a common given name, you gotta admit it lacks creativity on the part of the author. "Bella" really just sounds too easy, especially considering that she's meant to be "beautiful all along". ...
jusk8lp 1 year ago
@jusk8lp the meaning "beauty" isn't really uncommon. My mother's name has meaning "beauty" in it as well but the surname "swan"?. The author really needs to find some better surnames.
mewmewlunar 1 year ago
@mewmewlunar Yeah, I realize what you're saying. What I'm trying to point out, however, is that "Bella", coupled with the surname "Swan", is not subtle at all. You're right; "Bella" would have been okay; "Swan" just made it too easy like I said. And besides, even if you and your mom got similar names, that's besides the point.
jusk8lp 1 year ago
If I may ask, what do the bracketts "[ ]" around Edward's name? My is confused a bit.
XXXKingofSorrow 1 year ago
the twilight books read like a list- filled with boring, childlike, stilted prose. even sickness -inducing purple prose would be better. it would at least be fun to make fun of.
robokill387 1 year ago
My skin is translucent...but than I am part jellyfish.
TomMSTie 1 year ago
BYU has thousands of students (I used to live in Salt Lake City and had many friends who attended.) If even 4 guys out of the 3000-5000 guys there asked her out that's not even 1%. Statistically, if Meyers was comparing Bella's experience to hers no one should've asked her out.
hyperoo 2 years ago
This is the funniest thing I've heard. You put a lot of thought into it. Well Done! :D
nexmires 2 years ago
I appreciate your intelligent review of Twilight. I consider myself smart, but I don't have the time and the spot on knowledge like you do to dissect the book.
Thanks for the great video series.
SmellsLikeHippo 2 years ago
Aaa, nice. This is all really good. Also, it's all accurate! haha, nice. Keep it up!
JenBurton101 2 years ago
Lol, I believe this is the best I've seen
*continues to watch*
uchihakiss 2 years ago
Twilight is basicly a written down version of how Stephanie Meyer wished her high school life was like. Where she is pretty, thin, everybody adores her, guys love her, and she is basicly perfect. Edward is her perfect guy, the Cullens are her perfect family, and Renesmee is her perfect child. Perfect perfect perfect
GGA44 2 years ago 4
There are a lot of Mary-Sues in fiction, it makes the main chararcter more interesting. Why read about a totally 'normal' person. I like them, as a well as Gary-Sues, to a point. I don't like Super Mary/Gary-Sues though.
LightLessStar 2 years ago
A character that is perfect is pointless, they have nothing interesting about them at all. If they are perfect, why should you care what happens to them?
Punk7680 2 years ago 7
agreed, I don't always want a realistic plot but if there aren't realistic characters nothing is going to keep me reading...
TheManeatingchicken 2 years ago
well the thing is that there are many ways to make interesting characters without making them gary or mary sues trust me ^_^
burningpegasus 2 years ago
If you're going to fail the Mary Sue litmus test, than the more characters you fail it with the better. Because if one fails, than theres a higher chance that that one can warp the canon to focus on her or him , but if like four or more fail, than it's likely to a flaw in the test itself than in your characters.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
@burningpegasus As a writer myself I don't doubt your statement... I'm working on bringing my character "Luciami" out of mary-suism in fact, and it's not really that complicated...
DemonicRemption 1 year ago
@LightLessStar
Most Sues have flaws. Ditto Stus. Most are far from perfect anyway. The only difference is that those flaws are never acknowledged to be flaws by the author. This is the very essence of Mary Sue. It is anything that is done for the sake of author indulgence, and not for the sake of the story.
So lets say you have a chapter of Bella dancing like Michael jackson and her getting rapturous applause for a talent contest - in Twilight. That would be Mary Sue at her finest.
Ayatron34 2 years ago
Edward can't read her mind because she doesn't have one XDDD
UnidentifiedFemale 2 years ago 27
Oh lol nice. XD
xXDuskofTwilightXx 2 years ago 3
That's BYU for ya.
Shadowdancer21b 2 years ago
I'll never see Bella Swan the same way... watching this video, it makes you think on how Mary Sueish a character who was supposed to be plain and simple can become.
mayahnati 2 years ago
I lol'd at the realization that Bella was the only one he ever loved. In over 100 years. Never thought of anyone sexually. Ever. Even in his teenage years when the hormones kick in and guys think of sex like crazy (well...more than usual). That's some hardcore restraint there...
IcemaidenYukina 2 years ago 6
Make a book pl0x. I'd be one of the first to get it. We need more logic in our lives!
AsceticDarkness 2 years ago
About the male attention thing
In my first year of highschool I was being hit on by this kid I didn`t really like. I don`t hate the guy, but I wasn`t attracted to him either. But he would come to see me at lunch and start conversations with me anyway, and I didn`t like that. Is it ridiculous to think that a girl wouldn`t want that kind of attention? It`s a bit flattering to know someone likes you, but the affect it sort of lost when the guy is a weirdo with whom you have nothing in common.
shrikechan 2 years ago
LOL what are they odds a sue would meet a stu?
TAfTfilms 2 years ago 8
may i suggest putting all of your videos in a playlist so they are easier to follow. i think your analys of twilight is very indepth and i really respect you for actually taking the time to make a detailed and serious argument to why twilight isnt a very good book and yet why so many people love it. most of the people i know just say TWILIGHT SUCKS and give no reason or thought on why. good job and keep up the good work.
SynaNara 2 years ago 63
How to flowers smell tasty? They smell nice, sure, but edible???
That's confuzzling.
DarkKendall 2 years ago 51
@DarkKendall
This is probably a VERY common perception of situating a color with a taste, or better known as Synesthesia.
SakuranoIzzy 1 year ago
@DarkKendall Actually roses are edible and rose water is used as flavoring and you can use lavender as an herb.
rosetintworld 1 year ago
@DarkKendall You use the word confuzzling??? I'M NOT ALONE :D
jelbertie 9 months ago
@DarkKendall "Buttercups"?
...Yeah, I thought it sounded stupid, too. = 3=
alexjluthor 6 months ago
More direct quotes. And you've hit the characteristics of a Sue dead on. I entered this book expecting a good story. I came out of it feeling like I wanted to read fan fiction to clear my mind. Mary Sue= a hard story to make good. And the skin. Isn't it kind of rare to have 'ivory' skin?
Asuna6573 2 years ago 5
how could blood smell like flowers?? o.O
justmeArezuRosey 2 years ago 10
I totally agree with everything you said.
I mean, as soon as she walks in, she wants to be ignored and to blend in with everyone, and ironically everyone wants her. Its the stupidest thing ive ever read.
In my school, the new girl is completely and utterly invisible for at least the first couple of weeks, you want friends? You gotta make the fist move.
Am I right, or do I have a bitchy class?
cuteminti3 2 years ago 7
The new kids at your school are ignored because, like in all schools, the kids are a bit rude and want to keep to their old friends.
shrikechan 2 years ago
Like I said, I can agree with you about Bella being a sort of Mary Sue, but I still haven't understood why that necessarily is bad. To me, she's maybe more of an archetype. I see the Twilight Saga as more of a fairytale with basic themes, not something to be interpreted in a social realistic view. Most, or all, of the fairytales we know from childhood have Mary Sues as female main characters.
You don't model your life after Romeo and Juliet's destiny. That's my take on it anyway.
forsyne 2 years ago
Well, yes, but fairy tales give a snapshot of the culture that they're from, and they have lots of sociological influence. There have been a whole lot of studies about this.
Besides, Mary Sues are the mark of a lazy author. it's difficult to write realistic, human characters.
SapphoGrl4U 2 years ago
With respect, it's IMPOSSIBLE to write realistic human characters. They're far too complicated and confusing (even to themselves) for that to occur. And I think a lot of us forget that as interesting as characters may be, the story is supposed to be the star. If i'm enjoying what's going on in the story, I don't particularly care how archetypal the characters are.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
It's very difficult to write realistic human characters, but many authors over the years have come very, very, close. Even authors who use archetypes manage to do it much better than Meyers (Tusquets, Cervantes, Clarin, Marquez). Using a character that is basically a Mary Sue isn't just using an archetype. It's lazy.
SapphoGrl4U 2 years ago 9
I agree with your comments about how Bella is described. It annoyed me, but I was able to overlook that because I loved the story of the books. I've actually grown to like Bella after re-reading the books. About boys flocking to her, she's described as the "shiny new toy". All the students have gone to school together for several years, so when a new person arrives, it's exciting both for the boys and girls.
forsyne 2 years ago
Hmm...well, Noah in the sensational novel The Notebook has only ever loved one person in his eighty years of life: Allie. I guess that's a truly terrible book as well!
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
WOW! So she attended a college that is generally known as a place to major in finding a husband! Strange that MORE WOMEN DON'T ATTEND THIS AMAZING SCHOOL!
Is the tuition too high?
Are the living conditions bad?
Do the professors suck?
Or could it simply be that this school only exists in the minds of Twilight haters?
Get real!
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey shmeiliarockie, Edward can't read her mind because if he could, NO DIALOGUE WOULD OCCUR IN THE STORY AND WE WOULDN'T KNOW WTF WAS GOING ON!! Ever consider that fundamental problem with writing about a mind reader? Apparently not. Much easier to just say it was inserted to make Bella unique, rather than to make fundamental parts of the story work!
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
Hmm....I guess snotty, preppy bitches feel like the queens of the world if getting asked by just one guy is enough to send them over the top, cause I'm guessing they get asked out A LOT!
Wait...there is another possibility: the logic here is FLAWED!
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
I'm not really sure that having three guys ask you to a dance really qualifies as proof that "All the Boys Flock to Her." Having three boys ask you to a dance when approximately 500-1000 people attend the school is hardly favorable odds. (But hey, I'm a guy gamer, so what would I know about that.)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
Actually...Forks is a small town...there are few students in the school, so, therefore, few guys. Anyways, Edward the *mind reader* admits that most of the 'sheep' men want her. Really, pay attention to what you read and defend.
AbbyGabb101 2 years ago
Touche, Abby. You're right. I forgot about that. Good call.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
your argumentation is flawless. If a twitard sees this and still insists on his/her blind adoration for the series... there's indeed no hope for humanity...
nimbemon 2 years ago
With respect, she only smells "fantastic" to Edward. All other vampires think she smells normal.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
i think she does smell good to other vampires too. Alice says so, and James wouldn't leave her alone and take another human.
jusk8lp 2 years ago
James didn't leave her alone because he's a tracker. Since she was the only human on the baseball field when the "evil" vampires showed up, she was the only human he could track. He didn't fixate on her because she smells good; he fixated on her because he likes playing games and tracking "snacks" down.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
hmm, thanks for clearing that up for me. i'm not a fan, so when i saw it in the film, i got that impression.
jusk8lp 2 years ago
Well, don't quote me on it. I don't exactly know the books by heart. You could still be right. That's simply the impression I got when I read them.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Where the hell are you reading this from!? None of the books say that. I've read them 3 times so don't doubt me. Plus no one can penetrate Bella's mind. This includes Aro, Jane, Alec, EDWARD, and multiple others. That is her "super natural power" when i first moved to CT 4 guys asked me out on the same day. not unrealistic.
weazly13 2 years ago
weazly13,
"when i first moved to CT 4 guys asked me out on the same day. not unrealistic"
You can't generalise your personal experiences to the rest of the world's population. Therefore your claim that the situation is "not unrealistic" is not valid.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago 5
And those who consider it unrealistic for a girl to be asked out three/four times in a single day shouldn't generalize their opinions as facts either! Have you--or for that matter--weazly13--actually done any research to back up these claims?
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, and I'm not really trying to be rude, but if you're going to make a comment like, "You can't generalize your personal experience to the rest of the world," you have to remember it swings both ways.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
What are you talking about? I wasn't stating my opinion on the matter. I was pointing out a rather obvious logical fallacy in the "argument", a fallacy of faulty generalization, more specifically 'Hasty generalization' : the act of reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. In this case the 'insufficient evidence' would be the '4 guys asked me out on the same day' part of the argument.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
The fact that weazly13 is basing their conclusion, (the situation not being unrealistic), on this small piece of 'evidence' alone makes this a 'hasty generalization'.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'it swings both ways', but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong in my analysis here.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
LOL I wasn't exactly saying that your analysis was wrong. I was simply saying that weazly was basing his/her opinion on a generalization. I was simply saying that you should be sure YOUR statement isn't a generalization either. If it isn't, you're right, but if it IS, you're doing the same thing weazly is. That's all I was saying.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
But my statement is a fact based on critical, (and valid), analysis of weazly13's argument. How can that possibly be interpreted as a generalization?
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
Okay, then you're right. I'm just saying that because we don't get to see the evidence to back up your statement, there's no way for us to KNOW whether it's a generalization or not unless you show us the evidence. And maybe weazly13 actually has evidence besides an anecdote to back up his/her claim as well.
Basically, I was just asking you to prove your point, but that doesn't mean I think you're lying or even wrong.
Does that make sense? Or am I explaining this horribly? Hope not! :)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
I think I understand what you're saying now, but I don't think you understand what I mean. My comment isn't in the same category as weazly13's. I wasn't giving a counter argument to their claim, merely pointing out the fault in it. You say that I need evidence to back up my statement, but my statement is widely recognised as a common flaw in debating.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
It's not a generalization of any kind as I am not drawing a conclusion about the general population based on it. Does that make sense? So I don't need to provide evidence to prove my statement is not a generalization, because I never made any generalization in the first place. If you meant evidence to back up my analysis of 'generalization fallacy', I've already provided enough information in my previous comments.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
Basically, what I'm saying is two things.
1. Whether or not I agree with weazly13's statement here is not the issue. My statement is neither agreeing nor disagreeing. I was just pointing out that it was a weak argument.
2. My statement is not a generalization. I don't know where you got that from, but the fact is that it's not. It is not constructed like an argument like weazly13's.
Hope I've made myself clear. :) Sorry for the long comments.
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
LOL Don't apologize for long comments! I've posted infinitely longer ones on political videos! :)
I understand now that you weren't countering the argument; just pointing out a flaw in it. That was my misinterpretation, so EYE apologize! ;)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
XD That's okay. I enjoyed the discussion. :)
18xmagicx18 2 years ago
*golf clap* Well, aren't you just special.
I will admit my PDF may not be 100% accurate, but unless you're willing to donate your books to me there's no way in hell I'm obtaining the series. I will not support Meyer's crappy writing with my hard-earned money.
shmeiliarockie 2 years ago 14
Wait wait wait You haven't even read the books? And you're criticizing them? Why not actually READ the books to gather your evidence?
And please don't say that Meyer's writing is crappy like it's a fact. Say "I THINK she's a crappy writer." (Go ahead: call me anal, but it bugs the hell out of me!)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
I couldn't find a pdf so i borrowed my friend's who's a big fan.
haven't touched it yet and I won't until summer (just to tell her off that Twilight TRULY sucks)
Phoenixangelgal 2 years ago
It's on page 10 in the actual Twilight book.
sleepyvinny 2 years ago
Sorry weazly13. I just checked the books, and everything she's said so far is true. Wish it wasn't, cause I'm a fan of Twilight, but she's right about this one.
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
@weazly13
I bet you turned them all down didn't you. Because it made you feel like Isabella?
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
No, I didn't turn them down because I wanted to feel like Isabella, I turned them down because I'm gay. Think before you type please. It would be much appreciated.
weazly13 1 year ago
@weazly13
How am I supposed to know you're a faggot? Thinking before you type doesn't give you all knowing abillities, stupid dyke.
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
I wasn't talking about thinking about how I might be gay, I was talking about how you said I wanted to be like Bella. Why would anyone want to be like Bella. She's boring and depressing and exudes the essence of 'I want to kill myself'. And I'm not stupid. And I don't care if people call me a dyke. I am.
weazly13 1 year ago
@Ayatron34
Ayatron34 1 year ago
@weazly13 Okay, I agree with you on that last part; some girls really do have guys flocking to them. That's not unrealistic; but I'd assume you're pretty attractive, right? Bella refers to herself as 'plain,' but apparently nobody else thinks so. The fact that a supposedly 'plain' girl would get the attention of almost every boy in her new school and have two supernatural beings fight for her love makes it far fetched at best.
celtickawaii57 1 year ago
I'd honestly rather jump off a cliff than make one of my characters
1. Fall in love with the main protagonist (Naruto, Sasuke, Al, Ed, Neji etc)
2. Be so unique they can either do an entire new jutsu, transmute without a circle, have seen the gate of truth, and has automail.
.....I hate Sue's, but I love this video. Bella should die in a corner someplace.
Elixina 2 years ago 4
This is awesome. I totally agree, and coming back to the point about Mary Sue's getting truckloads of reviews; I have seen stories for FMA fanfic, where the girl came transmute without a circle and all that, and then falls in love with him. Who wants to read that? Atm, I'm writing fanfic, and I think even my stuff is better than Twilight. And I did do self insertation once, for humour. Got 25 reviews for 4 chapters.
Elixina 2 years ago
Although mine isn't exactly mary sue, I only got like 5 reviews for my story
Phoenixangelgal 2 years ago
You posted this on my birthday. Therefore, this video has become 20x more special and deserves a place in my heart.
♥ <--- my heart
SheWritesToLive 2 years ago
bella is the queen of mary sue
ByakuganRaven123 2 years ago 6
4:20
Best point! The Mary Sue videos help me tremendously with my own writing. Thanks!
GothChick723 2 years ago 2
BYU isn't as bad as you make it sound, though a lot of couples do get married while attending. (I live in Utah) Other then that, you are dead on. Bella is the worst Mary Sue ever, and Twilight sucks.
Alertafifalwonder 2 years ago
Your "Edward voice" was so funny! I'm really enjoying watching your videos! It's like all of my feelings are being spoken out! ^_^
TheGreatMillz 2 years ago
LOL. Yes, Bella is very special indeed.
Yanxie 2 years ago
I used to be a very huge Twilight fan.
I hate it now.
Bella IS Mary-Sue.
Edward pretty much abuses Bella.
There is insest.
And what the hell, the werewolves are in love with like two year olds?!
I agree with all of this. :)
ihartmitch123 3 years ago 11
shmeiliarockie converted me as well, though I wasn't such a huge fan, just a normal fan :-)
sheldrake123 2 years ago
pokemon?
ihatetylerE 3 years ago
Comment removed
h0wir0nic07 3 years ago
Yes, BYU's female student body is really only there for pairing up with the male student body. It's called getting an "MRS." degree, and SMeyer went there for that exact reason. She just didn't end up with an "Edward"-type guy...
AsajjVentress 3 years ago
Yes, I've heard of the Mrs. Degree. Sadly, it's not unique to BYU by any stretch of the imagination. Lots of young women strive to attain it instead of an education.
Thank goodness she didn't end up with and Edward type. Nobody deserves that.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
@shmeiliarockie After looking up what an MRS degree is I've gotta say that's just stupid... No wonder Meyer sets feminism back a few hundred years in this book....
DemonicRemption 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hmmm...I take it you've met Stephenie Meyer to be making such claims about why she went to college.
And I take it you've met a fair number of the women attending BYU as well?
Or are you simply doing what a lot of YouTubers do? (Pretending you know everything)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
Actually, I do know plenty of women over a NUMBER of years who've attended BYU for that exact reason, thank you very much. There's no doubt in my mind that SM attended that specific University so she could marry a member of the LDS church. Otherwise, she would have gone to a different school.
And, since when did I EVER say that I know everything? You just show me the evidence.
AsajjVentress 2 years ago 3
My apologies. I didn't mean for that to seem so rude.
I'm just frustrated because it seems like everyone I talk to on YouTube wants to simplify everything into a "Good vs. Evil" game. I feel many of them do this because it's easier than acknowledging how truly complicated our world is. (I might say it's intellectual laziness.)
You never said that you know everything, and I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that. It shows you're more open-minded than a lot of people I've spoken to. :)
Sonicisbadazz 2 years ago
Hey, it's alright. This world is made of different shades of gray...
I'll be the first person to say that I don't know everything, since I realize how impossible that is.
AsajjVentress 2 years ago 2
wow,I love your videos! & before, I thought I was the only one who saw through the real twilight...Its evil >O
but That edward quote about horny teenage boys was FANTASTIC
except for the fact that I was drinkin Fuze and I choked on it :(
5*
:D
qweer6669 3 years ago
Thanks. It IS evil.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
Once more I applaud you and I think I am going to be doing that for awhile seeing how good your points are and the way you point it out without going around it in circle... did that make sense ?
~Ja Ne~
~QuIcKsTaR~
QuickStarBlossom 3 years ago
Yes, it did. I try not to circle back too much, but when talking about Twilight that's a bit hard for me.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
I do not blame you I had the same trouble with my friend ... let say she still doesn't see my point
QuickStarBlossom 3 years ago
You're my hero.
peaceloveandoreos 3 years ago
"That blonde bitch Lauren!"
hahahaha. That made my day. Your videos are brilliant|!
wickedlydandy 3 years ago
*shakes fist* Damn you, Laurrrren!
Thank you. ^__^
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
"He chuckled blackly, huh, huh, huh!"
You're funny and so intelligent, I love watching your videos!
Great arguments!
YasmineS94 3 years ago 2
Thank you!
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
Maybe the reason Edward can't read her mind is because there is nothing going on in her head She is such an air head.
CrimsonEclipse 3 years ago
That's it exactly!
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
lol, your little "majoring in finding a husband" put me in tears at work. I'm not surprised though. Colleges like that should have a ban on those not there to learn. I mean, it's hard enough trying to get into college, but to be sent away cause some girl is going there trying to find her meal ticket? They can go on Craig's list like everyone else.
And I applaud your use of going down the list and visually showing how many column Bella fits into.
KillerBunnyFooFoo 3 years ago 2
I try not to comment on "the Mrs. degree" because once I get started it' s hard to stop. To summarize: I agree with you. College is for learning and growing as a person. If you happen to find love while doing it, that's perfectly okay. But if looking for somebody is the whole reason why you went you don't deserve to be there. But that's just my opinion.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
nd this is why i will not read twlight
tenshiuve 3 years ago
You're not exactly missing anything, anyway.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
i read a few chaps and can say i red better fanfics
tenshiuve 3 years ago
so she smells like flowers and all the vampires want to eat her? last time i checked, most flowers were decorative plants and not for eating. I know lavender smells good, but not in an eatable way.
anerindreams92 3 years ago
*puts on my rabid fan hat* You just don't understand! She smells wooonderful. (Stephenie says so!) Of course they want to eat her and not projectile vomit every time she walks by. She's SPESHUL. *takes it off again*
I feel dirty now.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
Im an English major and I agree with all your points. Myer is a complete vain self-insert. Hell, even in fan-fictions its not as bad as it is in Twilight.
ExperimentalArmy 3 years ago
Twilight makes most bad fanfiction look palatable by comparison. I would much rather read all forty-something chapters of My Immortal than trudge though Breaking Dawn again.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
The reason why Edward can't read Bella's thoughts is because Bella isn't thinking at all ...
Stupid Twilight...Stupid Stephanie Meyer
Miyuki1Miyahara614 3 years ago 12
I totally agree with everything you just said.
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
Why thank you ^.^
I am now a fan of yours, everything you just said in your videos is very interesting and got me thinking about Twilight. I always thought Twilight sucks and now i know it sucks times infinity ...
Frankly, I think Stephanie Meyer doesn't know write a book, all she wrote is just garbage.
The part about her experiencing a flock of guys after her, sounds like wishful thinking. LOL
Miyuki1Miyahara614 3 years ago
She may not know how to write a book, but she sure knows how to write Suefic!
shmeiliarockie 3 years ago
I second that. People are always asking me why I'm not into the Twilight fanbase. My answer is because most of them are idiots.
Sprikenz 3 years ago