Well a horse isn't a jet fighter - it doesn't have clearly defined back-blast areas!
Maybe this horse particularly edgy on that day, I dunno.
You need to always make you sure to stay well away from it's rear side - it's the first thing they teach you in those... horse-riding facilities, whatever they're called...
@elKarlo They are hard work to cut down, yes, but if every man in an army were ordered to cut down just one tree a day, that would lay waste to an awful lot of groves.
Would they really even need to go to all the trouble of cutting them down? Presumably ancient people were aware of the effects of driving copper spikes into trees.
Well, even a little horse, could of harmed you significantly, and yes, shin kicks from horses suck, I can tell you. Also, I now feel the need to grow olives, this appeals to me.
From what I remember hacking down olive trees was considered about the worst crime possible going even beyond murder in ancient Greece. It was considered essentially a crime not just against human but divine law (similar in the Bible btw). In myth the olive tree was the competition entree of Athena about who would be the god of a newfounded city. She won against Poseidon and the city was known henceforth as Athen (later Athens (plural form) when Theseus added 12 villages to the original).
If you are trying to conquer a city state it makes sense not to do damage that may take over a decade to recover from. Also, I would think that olives would be easier to pick by soldiers to help keep them fed while besieging a city than wheat would. Soldiers may not mind climbing into a tree and grabbing a few, but would be fairly affronted at being asked to swing a scythe like a common farmer.
Good points, I'd like to plant some olive trees in the rocky areas of my land, I'll have to look into it. Keep sharing your travels with us, great work!
You've either not heard of, or disagree with Hanson's chapter on the apparently stupendous resilience of olive trees to devastation, which he relates in his book on Agriculture and Warfare in Classical Greece. I looked into this a fair bit for my dissertation, so if it's the latter I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning.
@anachronisticon Don' think I've read that one. What's the title? Chopping a tree down certainly harms its yield. Fire and pruning can promote growth.
@lindybeige Think I've found it: Warfare and agriculture in classical Greece By Victor Davis Hanson. I'm having a look at it now... If you have a particular page reference that might speed things up for me a bit.
@lindybeige Just skipped through it. He does not say that chopping down groves is not devastating (unless I've missed a vital bit), he says that not many groves got chopped down in the Peloponnesian War.
@lindybeige My personal guess is that since olive trees are rather painfully hard to chop, and it would also require already heavily equipped soldier to also carry an axe. Seems unproductive time and gear spending in general to try and devastate olives. Especially since you do hope to conquer an city, or at least make them pay tribute, in both cases those olives do come in handy... or even in case of siege, they become your asset.
@Mehow80 Yes, if anything he seems to confirm that chopping down olive groves would be devastating, but his main argument seems to be that there is little evidence of shortages after the raids by the Spartans, and so he concludes that few groves were axed.
@lindybeige I think you are absolutely right to assume that if there was a possibility of chopping down olive trees on a mass scale it could be devastating. However Hanson in his 'Western Way of War- Infantry Battle in Classical Greece' argues that it was virtually impossible for the attackers to devastate olive groves due to the size of the trees and hardness of the wood. He also mentions that this type of trees does not burn easily. (This is chapter 4 pg. 33)
@Mehow80 They had axes. They had saws. These same people, when besieging cities would in a few days heap up earth into massive ramps to overcome high defensive walls. If effort could achieve it, they could use effort. The question is, why did they not always chop down olive groves?
@lindybeige Precisely. He elucidates many of the means and issues with devastating enemy agriculture, but his central thesis is that the long-term economic impact of devastation has been exaggerated in the sources as a topos. He talks about olive trees specifically throughout the book, esp. p.50 onwards. Overall he's arguing against the use of devastation as a viable economic weapon or a form of attrition.
The horse was startled because you were approaching him from behind with the intention of grabbing him (in his mind).
You guys might have shared pony time together but you havent exchanged mutual friendship yet by allowing you to touch the head of the horse and clarifying your an ally.
The horse is a social creature and will allow other social creatures to join them up to 1 or 3 meters. (predators have this limit at 15-30). But you are not yet considered friendly and grabbing is bad..so kick u
@BrutusAlbion Yes, clearly the animal was more nervous than it appeared. In my defence, though, I did not approach it from behind. I will be more careful next time.
If I where to attack a city state with massive olive groves. Would it not make more sense to raid their olive groves time and again. if they cower behind their city walls then if I can steal from them this year, maybe I can steal next year as well.
I think considerations like this may have entered the equation and perhaps although groves make you vulnerable, maybe their value might have afforded some protection from a warlord who went for the long con.
Hmm "That would be a 'No', then." .... methinks despite protestations of merely sharing horse time, and contemplating the serenity of the olive grove - the kick was preceded by an attempt to pat said horse? Ride said horse? ;)
@checkboard I had been contemplating a pat, yes, but I wasn't so reckless as to try to ride it. You can see that I was very close, but I had been very close for quite some while. I do recall saying something like "I could watch you eat all day."
althought when you think about it- if somebody was filming you whilst you gorged in a quaint olive grove...would you not have the desire to kick that individual?
down side to watching this video, now I really want some olives.
tbows7 2 months ago
Dude, horses get spooked when you stand behind them!
And you were standing smack behind that little fella - of course you got kicked!
That's, like, Horse Molesting-101, man - you need to get your shit together...
Zyamaman 3 months ago
@Zyamaman I was to its side. It turned its back on me.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige
Well a horse isn't a jet fighter - it doesn't have clearly defined back-blast areas!
Maybe this horse particularly edgy on that day, I dunno.
You need to always make you sure to stay well away from it's rear side - it's the first thing they teach you in those... horse-riding facilities, whatever they're called...
Zyamaman 3 months ago
So, i think they used horses to defend their olive groves.
mordechaimordechai 3 months ago 2
I think it has been shown that Olive trees are pretty hard to cut down, and almost possible to burn.
elKarlo 3 months ago
@elKarlo They are hard work to cut down, yes, but if every man in an army were ordered to cut down just one tree a day, that would lay waste to an awful lot of groves.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige
Would they really even need to go to all the trouble of cutting them down? Presumably ancient people were aware of the effects of driving copper spikes into trees.
AdNeeb 2 months ago
@AdNeeb Copper is expensive, and axing down a tree is exercise for the servants.
lindybeige 2 months ago
Well, even a little horse, could of harmed you significantly, and yes, shin kicks from horses suck, I can tell you. Also, I now feel the need to grow olives, this appeals to me.
SwordsAndRavens 3 months ago
OI!
rmckim 3 months ago
From what I remember hacking down olive trees was considered about the worst crime possible going even beyond murder in ancient Greece. It was considered essentially a crime not just against human but divine law (similar in the Bible btw). In myth the olive tree was the competition entree of Athena about who would be the god of a newfounded city. She won against Poseidon and the city was known henceforth as Athen (later Athens (plural form) when Theseus added 12 villages to the original).
Segalmed 3 months ago
"okay! that'd be a "no" then"
not laughing at you, however that was a fantastic response!
thanks!
plus, aren't olives poisonous? unless they are treated in a very specific method?
FlyingAxblade 3 months ago
If you are trying to conquer a city state it makes sense not to do damage that may take over a decade to recover from. Also, I would think that olives would be easier to pick by soldiers to help keep them fed while besieging a city than wheat would. Soldiers may not mind climbing into a tree and grabbing a few, but would be fairly affronted at being asked to swing a scythe like a common farmer.
Torome86 3 months ago
@Torome86 Most soldiers were farmers prolly
WoodyHaroo 3 months ago
Good points, I'd like to plant some olive trees in the rocky areas of my land, I'll have to look into it. Keep sharing your travels with us, great work!
rubbernecker13 3 months ago
Does anyone know what kind of horse that was?
Royalemperorblue 3 months ago
Silly old mare.
leeham991 3 months ago
NO PAPARAZZI!
bretlynn 3 months ago
You've either not heard of, or disagree with Hanson's chapter on the apparently stupendous resilience of olive trees to devastation, which he relates in his book on Agriculture and Warfare in Classical Greece. I looked into this a fair bit for my dissertation, so if it's the latter I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning.
anachronisticon 3 months ago
@anachronisticon Don' think I've read that one. What's the title? Chopping a tree down certainly harms its yield. Fire and pruning can promote growth.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige Think I've found it: Warfare and agriculture in classical Greece By Victor Davis Hanson. I'm having a look at it now... If you have a particular page reference that might speed things up for me a bit.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige Just skipped through it. He does not say that chopping down groves is not devastating (unless I've missed a vital bit), he says that not many groves got chopped down in the Peloponnesian War.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige My personal guess is that since olive trees are rather painfully hard to chop, and it would also require already heavily equipped soldier to also carry an axe. Seems unproductive time and gear spending in general to try and devastate olives. Especially since you do hope to conquer an city, or at least make them pay tribute, in both cases those olives do come in handy... or even in case of siege, they become your asset.
Macekinaizaugla 3 months ago
@lindybeige Just came across the same book and went back to this video to ask you about it. Seems to me that I have been beaten to it.
Mehow80 3 months ago
@Mehow80 Yes, if anything he seems to confirm that chopping down olive groves would be devastating, but his main argument seems to be that there is little evidence of shortages after the raids by the Spartans, and so he concludes that few groves were axed.
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige I think you are absolutely right to assume that if there was a possibility of chopping down olive trees on a mass scale it could be devastating. However Hanson in his 'Western Way of War- Infantry Battle in Classical Greece' argues that it was virtually impossible for the attackers to devastate olive groves due to the size of the trees and hardness of the wood. He also mentions that this type of trees does not burn easily. (This is chapter 4 pg. 33)
Mehow80 3 months ago
@Mehow80 They had axes. They had saws. These same people, when besieging cities would in a few days heap up earth into massive ramps to overcome high defensive walls. If effort could achieve it, they could use effort. The question is, why did they not always chop down olive groves?
lindybeige 3 months ago
@Mehow80 Beat me to it. Especially the older trees. Chopping down an 80 plus year old tree with a bronze axe, would have been hard work.
elKarlo 3 months ago
@lindybeige Precisely. He elucidates many of the means and issues with devastating enemy agriculture, but his central thesis is that the long-term economic impact of devastation has been exaggerated in the sources as a topos. He talks about olive trees specifically throughout the book, esp. p.50 onwards. Overall he's arguing against the use of devastation as a viable economic weapon or a form of attrition.
anachronisticon 3 months ago
The horse was startled because you were approaching him from behind with the intention of grabbing him (in his mind).
You guys might have shared pony time together but you havent exchanged mutual friendship yet by allowing you to touch the head of the horse and clarifying your an ally.
The horse is a social creature and will allow other social creatures to join them up to 1 or 3 meters. (predators have this limit at 15-30). But you are not yet considered friendly and grabbing is bad..so kick u
BrutusAlbion 3 months ago
@BrutusAlbion Yes, clearly the animal was more nervous than it appeared. In my defence, though, I did not approach it from behind. I will be more careful next time.
lindybeige 3 months ago
Stupid hayburner.
Polymarkos 3 months ago
Some points I've learned about horses over the years:
a) horses can be jerks.
b) never approach a horse from it's rear arc. They get nervous.
c) horses can be jerks
Yes, I'm repeating but I think it bears emphasis.
colddrake80 3 months ago
A horse broke my pelvis once... they don`t know how to kick softly.
Kooletz71 3 months ago
It seems an update to your conclusion of the "How to say No" video is in order: Lindy Hoppers should
1. Look
2. Count to 1500
3. Kick
AdminOfTheSpacepope 3 months ago 30
@AdminOfTheSpacepope lol I could see that as a Family Guy scene.
BloodfromtheAshes 3 months ago in playlist More videos from lindybeige
the hores is another example of advantages with olive groves, you can keep animals (cattle/sheep/etc) grazing there as well
IVscythia 3 months ago
You should've showed the horse your 'how to say no' video first. Then it wouldn’t kick but pause... and say no.
Kheos100 3 months ago
If I where to attack a city state with massive olive groves. Would it not make more sense to raid their olive groves time and again. if they cower behind their city walls then if I can steal from them this year, maybe I can steal next year as well.
I think considerations like this may have entered the equation and perhaps although groves make you vulnerable, maybe their value might have afforded some protection from a warlord who went for the long con.
take care
;-))
blacksilkblacksilk 3 months ago
I've been hit by a horse before and it really hurt when it hit me in the calf, glad to see you are not hurt.
TheSuperPsychaholic 3 months ago
Hmm "That would be a 'No', then." .... methinks despite protestations of merely sharing horse time, and contemplating the serenity of the olive grove - the kick was preceded by an attempt to pat said horse? Ride said horse? ;)
checkboard 3 months ago
@checkboard I had been contemplating a pat, yes, but I wasn't so reckless as to try to ride it. You can see that I was very close, but I had been very close for quite some while. I do recall saying something like "I could watch you eat all day."
lindybeige 3 months ago
What were you asking it that turned out to be a no? That'll be why it kicked you.
TheBoyFromNorfolk 3 months ago
@TheBoyFromNorfolk "Do you think that 'Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom' is better than 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'?"
lindybeige 3 months ago 7
ow...
althought when you think about it- if somebody was filming you whilst you gorged in a quaint olive grove...would you not have the desire to kick that individual?
1x93cm 3 months ago
@1x93cm Not if he was wearing as much beige as I was.
lindybeige 3 months ago 2
@lindybeige Hmm.. I tihnk I finally understand your name
gepadat2k10 3 months ago
@gepadat2k10 I SPELLED SOMETHING WRONG! >.< Shame on me
gepadat2k10 3 months ago
The build up to the kick was unbearable. Good to see you are still intact and posting videos!
IntonableVab 3 months ago
What a treacherous horse. Glad you passed unharmed and with a nice video.
ambalon 3 months ago
"stupendously muscular calves"
Yeaah right :p
cilibinarii 3 months ago
@cilibinarii Try Lindy hopping for twelve years.
lindybeige 3 months ago 2
:)
Mrbulletproofsamurai 3 months ago
@Mrbulletproofsamurai Happy that I was ultimately unharmed, or happy that I got kicked in the first place, or just happy to see such pastoral scenes?
lindybeige 3 months ago
@lindybeige happy that you made a new video :D
Well that whas my reason for that little smiley
Rhonerin 3 months ago
@lindybeige happy on all accounts
Mrbulletproofsamurai 3 months ago