Noobler, your understanding of history is horrible, your argumentative skills are so unfocused and meandering that there is no where for a person to start, and your bombardment of this post is nothing short of cheap.
A couple basic points, Pam talks, in part, about issues of modern international justice, a concept "white" Canada has played a large role in making, and so it makes perfect sense those laws should be upheld. Canada also is not a "white" country. It never has been.
flawed presentation, the assumption that the answer to native's trouble is more favouritism is silly, what needs to be done for the poor quality of life for so many is exactly the same thing that needs to be done for so many other people with a poor quality of life in canada phase the money aspects right out of status, period, then let them decide who they want to be
if that leaves them to poverty, well, that's a general issue for us all
furthermore, there are technical problems with this
@noobler9 for one, you CAN tell where people descend through the clever use of gene markers, and you can tell where they grew up by using their teeth this is indisputable, early eugenics might've been silly but genetics itself doesn't care for it either so that argument against biological sciences is bunk in fact, whitey, aka brits, have been invaded and colonized about 5 times in their history at least, you don't hear them complaining do you? no, the natives of england got over it
@noobler9 and even the comment about higher birth rates, that's a sign of POVERTY, a huge sign of it, and lack of development in the region, that has to be fixed period, and I for one do not appreciate the idea that the rest of canada has to pay for natives based on ethnicity and race, I don't mind if they were given money and aide because they're dirt poor, but I think our charter protects against ethnic discrimination
where's my handout if natives get one, I'm inuit and probably a little welsh
@noobler9 by this point, you might as well scrap the indian act, destroy the reservation system and have communities built around good governance that's just generally good, corruption runs rampant in many reserves, and in poor communities native status is seen as a pass for free stuff, not legitimate identity
separate the money from the status, and help them if they need it, but because they need help, not because they're special skin colour or something white people are poor too you know
@noobler9 what you CAN do is by destroying the indian act, remove a lot of the issues that arise out of this bit of favouritism, AND the detrimental parts, trying to have your cake and eat it too might work well for a lawyer who gets paid to make it happen but will harm the native population in the long run, we don't take kindly to people who're favoured because of ethnicity, look at how harper got into power partly because people hate quebec because it's seen as being favoured
@noobler9 in place of the indian act, there's a variety of things you can do that are non-discriminatory, for instance, the guaranteed annual income idea of conservative senator hugh segal's would go a long way in solving a lot of issues, cleaning up police behaviour in general and then absorbing any reservation policing into our overall system would go a long way too there is no culture that deserves to stay in existence untouched, it just doesn't exist, cultures are always changing
@noobler9 I brought up the brits, because everyone sees them as the be all end all, well no, even european whitey culture amalgamates and changes over time, we can see the implicit racism against white people in this video and I don't like it anymore than I like the racism against natives the brits had the italians (mediterranean), and 3-4 germanic/nordic tribes take over and basically pull what the brits did with the natives, so they aren't special at all in this case
@noobler9 what canada about isn't this, that's for certain, canada is about all the cultures being relatively equal, and ethnicities, under a common bond where we're all able to go our own way to a fair degree based on our family's history, sure but we can't be giving special treatment based on ethnicity, it should be given out based on necessity, not ethnicity and giving special privileges to reserves is disastrous and promotes crime, bad for natives bad for us, no oversight = corruption
@noobler9 and that's not a snag on reservations, that's just a FACT of every single organization, that's why we have audits, we have "checks and balances" and all kinds of independent studies on various things for instance I'm sure there's even a little bit of rejection of "white culture" that amounts to rejecting some pretty smart moves and behaviours on the native end of things, I've seen it with my own eyes, it's small, but it matters, it's a bad thing that needs to stop too
@noobler9 and just to top it all off, at least around the BC area, natives practiced slavery and human sacrifice they don't anymore of course, but let's just make sure that we're not idolizing native culture to the point where we can't tell that some of it's stuff is just damn defunct and bad, whoever does it oh and you know why the slavery stopped? "evil whitey" didn't like it in canada, this is about the time the americans had a civil war over it but here in canada we outgrew it already
@noobler9 oh, and "this claim that you did it on OUR stuff?" that's a pretty big sense of entitlement, I sure as hell don't feel responsible for that crap 150 years ago it's done, you've been beaten, the liberality of the british empire allowed you to live, and the nation has changed over time because of this, for ALL ethnicities, and ALL people, who need it oh, you still think this place is yours? you want me to pay you extra for it? oh PLEASE, you're canadian first and foremost nowadays
@noobler9 and if you want the recognition without the money that's fine by me, since that's the number one reason, right? also fifth generation cree or blackfoot on top of this, I guess I should've added that, I don't have status there but my dad had the ability it's not your land anymore, what's done is done, deal with it, live with it, accept it, you're not telling me to accept worse because of something 100 years ago, maybe because you need help, but not because of racial entitlements
@noobler9 so okay, if you wanna tell me "we're all in it together" that's okay, that's fine, white people, brown people, red people, yellow people, black people
that's cool, we're all in it together, why don't you stop trying to put yourself on the pedestal and ask to be equal instead, if you want to determine who's first nations, don't ask the other nations to pay you for it I HATE it when people are racist and ethnicist for themselves and against everyone else
@noobler9 oh, and according to the talk about treaties, you're even NATIONALIST, well MY nationalism tells me that if someone else wants to be a different nation on my nation's dime, go to hell ;) there's a statute of limitations on this "you stole my land hurrdurr" stuff or do british people get to charge scandanavians and italians money for being invaded, or what? they got taken over for a long time by the romans and the angles, the saxons the normans so do brits get money too?!
@noobler9 the answer is no, they don't, they got over it, moved on, improved their own society and formed a new identity based on BOTH existing, they didn't try to dismantle or shove off the others 200 years after the fact... and they didn't demand special treatment for it either, now with britain you've got scots and welsh and irish, and yes they are seceding somewhat, but here's the thing, those are condensed into a large specific area, we don't have that here, so we can't do that here
@noobler9 what you CAN do is cross over that line, canada welcomes you into it's fold if you're willing to join it and instead of fighting canada, you can work to make it a better place for you and everyone else in it, just like everyone else expects of themselves, they expect it of you ever heard the term asian invasion? it's the white people complaining about asians the same way you do about whites, it's racist/ethnicist what a TERRIBLE sense of entitlement, you're canadian first now
@noobler9 and also, on top of that, PLEASE learn from the americans, separate but equal doesn't work, it just makes minorities go into ghettoes, if you care about your own people, then PLEASE stop supporting incompetent systems of governance on them
@noobler9 oh, AND, since "your culture" was built up based around raiding and slavery and being nomads, I don't think it's fair to say we can't take over land as well complaining just because we were better at doing it than you, well, I don't know, it seems stupid and I see a clear lack of basis for your "it was our land" policy, the brits didn't have any such notions of superiority based on multiculturalism when they took over, their attitude was more like our ancestors raiding! so, yeah
@noobler9 yes that's right, I said your and our, I'm part cree or blackfoot, AND part inuit, I'm eligible for services, but I don't think they should be reserved for natives and I think it's completely selfish of them to expect that kind of treatment for themselves but no other canadian citizens, and are so dedicated to themselves they're not willing to stand up for every canada instead of just themselves my great great gramps was irish, he came here cause of colonialism on ireland
@noobler9 so I know a lot about how you might feel, you know what though? join the system in this place, make it a land of opportunity, if you moved with poor whiteys, you'd get a lot further, be a lot happier, and have more allies, because then the focus would be about what works, for ALL canadians, not screwing about with badly made treaties to remove you why not drive for greater municipal sovereignty? our democracy has great oversight the tribal system ENCOURAGES corruption
@noobler9 because look at quebec, they get help protecting their culture, why not something for all canadians to have their own cultural clubs? I know some ukrainians, you can't claim they weren't persecuted, I know some polish people too, as in polish jews, you know, the country that had 50% dead about 65 years ago, you can't claim your persecution is NEARLY what theirs is
the best compensation they ever got? the ability to move on and live without fear WITH everyone else, not separately
@noobler9 a treaty by definition sets you apart, it's badly written from the core up, it's a kludge at this point, it's also selfish and so you will find enemies everywhere, because it's all about NATIVES, not all all canadians, yea you've got it bad, and the things that'll work for you will work for everyone
democracy is a deliberative process about INCLUSION, not "me first" yeah there's some favouritism, TO THE POOR, who need help, but only because they need help, not arbitary ethnic lines
@noobler9 there, I basically showed how the whole treaty status thing needs to be done away with in favour of something for all canadian citizens including natives, with a variety of technical criticisms on various subjects
and every single thing I've said, is because it happened, and I know natives would like their own cultural system of government, the problem is we've seen it in western cultures too, and it wasn't pretty, it's bad no matter WHO does it
Noobler, your understanding of history is horrible, your argumentative skills are so unfocused and meandering that there is no where for a person to start, and your bombardment of this post is nothing short of cheap.
A couple basic points, Pam talks, in part, about issues of modern international justice, a concept "white" Canada has played a large role in making, and so it makes perfect sense those laws should be upheld. Canada also is not a "white" country. It never has been.
Mathrgenius 2 months ago
@noobler another non-indigenous person, who knows more about indigenous people than indigenous people!
kainai2099 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
kiss my ass.
PoizonBoi 3 months ago
flawed presentation, the assumption that the answer to native's trouble is more favouritism is silly, what needs to be done for the poor quality of life for so many is exactly the same thing that needs to be done for so many other people with a poor quality of life in canada phase the money aspects right out of status, period, then let them decide who they want to be
if that leaves them to poverty, well, that's a general issue for us all
furthermore, there are technical problems with this
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 for one, you CAN tell where people descend through the clever use of gene markers, and you can tell where they grew up by using their teeth this is indisputable, early eugenics might've been silly but genetics itself doesn't care for it either so that argument against biological sciences is bunk in fact, whitey, aka brits, have been invaded and colonized about 5 times in their history at least, you don't hear them complaining do you? no, the natives of england got over it
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 and even the comment about higher birth rates, that's a sign of POVERTY, a huge sign of it, and lack of development in the region, that has to be fixed period, and I for one do not appreciate the idea that the rest of canada has to pay for natives based on ethnicity and race, I don't mind if they were given money and aide because they're dirt poor, but I think our charter protects against ethnic discrimination
where's my handout if natives get one, I'm inuit and probably a little welsh
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 by this point, you might as well scrap the indian act, destroy the reservation system and have communities built around good governance that's just generally good, corruption runs rampant in many reserves, and in poor communities native status is seen as a pass for free stuff, not legitimate identity
separate the money from the status, and help them if they need it, but because they need help, not because they're special skin colour or something white people are poor too you know
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 what you CAN do is by destroying the indian act, remove a lot of the issues that arise out of this bit of favouritism, AND the detrimental parts, trying to have your cake and eat it too might work well for a lawyer who gets paid to make it happen but will harm the native population in the long run, we don't take kindly to people who're favoured because of ethnicity, look at how harper got into power partly because people hate quebec because it's seen as being favoured
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 in place of the indian act, there's a variety of things you can do that are non-discriminatory, for instance, the guaranteed annual income idea of conservative senator hugh segal's would go a long way in solving a lot of issues, cleaning up police behaviour in general and then absorbing any reservation policing into our overall system would go a long way too there is no culture that deserves to stay in existence untouched, it just doesn't exist, cultures are always changing
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 I brought up the brits, because everyone sees them as the be all end all, well no, even european whitey culture amalgamates and changes over time, we can see the implicit racism against white people in this video and I don't like it anymore than I like the racism against natives the brits had the italians (mediterranean), and 3-4 germanic/nordic tribes take over and basically pull what the brits did with the natives, so they aren't special at all in this case
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 what canada about isn't this, that's for certain, canada is about all the cultures being relatively equal, and ethnicities, under a common bond where we're all able to go our own way to a fair degree based on our family's history, sure but we can't be giving special treatment based on ethnicity, it should be given out based on necessity, not ethnicity and giving special privileges to reserves is disastrous and promotes crime, bad for natives bad for us, no oversight = corruption
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 and that's not a snag on reservations, that's just a FACT of every single organization, that's why we have audits, we have "checks and balances" and all kinds of independent studies on various things for instance I'm sure there's even a little bit of rejection of "white culture" that amounts to rejecting some pretty smart moves and behaviours on the native end of things, I've seen it with my own eyes, it's small, but it matters, it's a bad thing that needs to stop too
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 and just to top it all off, at least around the BC area, natives practiced slavery and human sacrifice they don't anymore of course, but let's just make sure that we're not idolizing native culture to the point where we can't tell that some of it's stuff is just damn defunct and bad, whoever does it oh and you know why the slavery stopped? "evil whitey" didn't like it in canada, this is about the time the americans had a civil war over it but here in canada we outgrew it already
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 oh, and "this claim that you did it on OUR stuff?" that's a pretty big sense of entitlement, I sure as hell don't feel responsible for that crap 150 years ago it's done, you've been beaten, the liberality of the british empire allowed you to live, and the nation has changed over time because of this, for ALL ethnicities, and ALL people, who need it oh, you still think this place is yours? you want me to pay you extra for it? oh PLEASE, you're canadian first and foremost nowadays
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 and if you want the recognition without the money that's fine by me, since that's the number one reason, right? also fifth generation cree or blackfoot on top of this, I guess I should've added that, I don't have status there but my dad had the ability it's not your land anymore, what's done is done, deal with it, live with it, accept it, you're not telling me to accept worse because of something 100 years ago, maybe because you need help, but not because of racial entitlements
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 so okay, if you wanna tell me "we're all in it together" that's okay, that's fine, white people, brown people, red people, yellow people, black people
that's cool, we're all in it together, why don't you stop trying to put yourself on the pedestal and ask to be equal instead, if you want to determine who's first nations, don't ask the other nations to pay you for it I HATE it when people are racist and ethnicist for themselves and against everyone else
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 oh, and according to the talk about treaties, you're even NATIONALIST, well MY nationalism tells me that if someone else wants to be a different nation on my nation's dime, go to hell ;) there's a statute of limitations on this "you stole my land hurrdurr" stuff or do british people get to charge scandanavians and italians money for being invaded, or what? they got taken over for a long time by the romans and the angles, the saxons the normans so do brits get money too?!
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 the answer is no, they don't, they got over it, moved on, improved their own society and formed a new identity based on BOTH existing, they didn't try to dismantle or shove off the others 200 years after the fact... and they didn't demand special treatment for it either, now with britain you've got scots and welsh and irish, and yes they are seceding somewhat, but here's the thing, those are condensed into a large specific area, we don't have that here, so we can't do that here
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 what you CAN do is cross over that line, canada welcomes you into it's fold if you're willing to join it and instead of fighting canada, you can work to make it a better place for you and everyone else in it, just like everyone else expects of themselves, they expect it of you ever heard the term asian invasion? it's the white people complaining about asians the same way you do about whites, it's racist/ethnicist what a TERRIBLE sense of entitlement, you're canadian first now
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 and also, on top of that, PLEASE learn from the americans, separate but equal doesn't work, it just makes minorities go into ghettoes, if you care about your own people, then PLEASE stop supporting incompetent systems of governance on them
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 oh, AND, since "your culture" was built up based around raiding and slavery and being nomads, I don't think it's fair to say we can't take over land as well complaining just because we were better at doing it than you, well, I don't know, it seems stupid and I see a clear lack of basis for your "it was our land" policy, the brits didn't have any such notions of superiority based on multiculturalism when they took over, their attitude was more like our ancestors raiding! so, yeah
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 yes that's right, I said your and our, I'm part cree or blackfoot, AND part inuit, I'm eligible for services, but I don't think they should be reserved for natives and I think it's completely selfish of them to expect that kind of treatment for themselves but no other canadian citizens, and are so dedicated to themselves they're not willing to stand up for every canada instead of just themselves my great great gramps was irish, he came here cause of colonialism on ireland
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 so I know a lot about how you might feel, you know what though? join the system in this place, make it a land of opportunity, if you moved with poor whiteys, you'd get a lot further, be a lot happier, and have more allies, because then the focus would be about what works, for ALL canadians, not screwing about with badly made treaties to remove you why not drive for greater municipal sovereignty? our democracy has great oversight the tribal system ENCOURAGES corruption
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 because look at quebec, they get help protecting their culture, why not something for all canadians to have their own cultural clubs? I know some ukrainians, you can't claim they weren't persecuted, I know some polish people too, as in polish jews, you know, the country that had 50% dead about 65 years ago, you can't claim your persecution is NEARLY what theirs is
the best compensation they ever got? the ability to move on and live without fear WITH everyone else, not separately
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 a treaty by definition sets you apart, it's badly written from the core up, it's a kludge at this point, it's also selfish and so you will find enemies everywhere, because it's all about NATIVES, not all all canadians, yea you've got it bad, and the things that'll work for you will work for everyone
democracy is a deliberative process about INCLUSION, not "me first" yeah there's some favouritism, TO THE POOR, who need help, but only because they need help, not arbitary ethnic lines
noobler9 4 months ago
@noobler9 there, I basically showed how the whole treaty status thing needs to be done away with in favour of something for all canadian citizens including natives, with a variety of technical criticisms on various subjects
and every single thing I've said, is because it happened, and I know natives would like their own cultural system of government, the problem is we've seen it in western cultures too, and it wasn't pretty, it's bad no matter WHO does it
noobler9 4 months ago