You are a stupid ass. In the real world poor people do not make enough money to support a retirement program. When these people get into their 60's and 70's and are no longer employable, what will we do with them if they do not have social security? Are we just going to leave them in the streets? Republicans hate taking care of the elderly, the sick, the poor, and the veterans. They call this redistributing wealth. I just want to know what their alternative is. Millions of homeless?
@shitstick63 The Republicans are just as pro SS as Democrats. It is fiscal conservatives (which Republicans are not) that want to do something about SS. Very very few want to replace it with nothing. And in those cases, they don't hate taking care of the elderly, sick, or poor. They want more control over it. They don't want the government controlling it. It is called charity.
@bmlong137 Bullshit! Republicans hate social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, and any other program that helps the poor, elderly, or sick. We cannot tax out way out of our problems. The problem with our countries economy is a result of NAFTA, and the Iraq war. Our economy is where it will remain until we address the trade deficit. We are bleeding money every week, until this stops we will continue on a downward spiral. This is from a FOX news contributor.
ITs sad that everyone here is going after him for being overweight yet I have not found one comment debating something he has done. Get a life and a brain people.
if all the left wing socialists have are donuts and fat jokes he must be pretty damn good. He knows that the correct way to straighten out this country- but it is a difficult road for those who choose not to work hard and really try to succeed .Its time to stop being victims and work to better yourself and quit looking for others to give it to you. Christie would make a great president
@o5iiawah - Yes very accurate and true comment. We need balance between private and public jobs. Right now since the Bush administration this country has gone way too far to the right with private business sending millions of jobs overseas while the corporations not only pay zero taxes, they get tax subsidies from taxes we pay. The Bush administration destroyed our economical cash flow for all to benefit from our system by allowing so many jobs to be sent overseas.
Well I'm all for merit based pay raises for teachers if its administered properly. I just don't want to see that become corrupt like almost everything else government touches
If he runs and America elects him than this colletively INCOMPETENT nation of human splooge deserves exactly what it gets, and as for Obama, what a dissapointment, truly. The man could have used the machinery of the institution to hold monies from his apponents to get what he wants and he just squandered it, just like the others before him, and now the myth of weak liberals is all but indelible. Now,it's the monsters turn, and are you people FUCKED! Christie can't bring the economy back either.
HAHA.. It's funny cuz' Christie if Fat & Lazy. His face actually reminds me of Porky Pig. I can just hear him wheezing after taking 3 stairs. Of course that would be impossible. This fat F' is definitely an elevator guy.
Why aren't there mass protests here in the US, given that the Top1% of Americans control nearly 40% of the wealth? Check out "Of the 1%, by the 1% for the 1%" by Nobel Prize Winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, in the new issue of Vanity Fair.
The fight in Wisconsin has focused the nation's attention on collective bargaining and its role in a democratic society. Other states facing fiscal crises are watching the battle there. Unfortunately, because of the highly partisan nature of the fight in Wisconsin, the debate has shed more heat than light. Get the FACTS by googling this article: "Public-sector collective bargaining has a proud history"
It's hard to find good teachers willing to work in the toughest schools now, these constant attacks and cuts will only make it harder. Folks don't go into teaching because they are interested in "merit pay." They do it to help kids. Taking away their voice in how their workplace operates (through collective bargaining) just makes the profession even less appealing.
Why is the US trying to export the anti-union model to the developing world instead of demanding fair labor practices from our trading partners (ro help level the playing field for American workers)?
Historians of the future will probably be mystified by today's American middle class and how they incrementally voted themselves out of existence and into poverty as a permanent underclass. Since the Reagan administration, the TV watching public has been fed a relentless diet of corporate disinformation and extreme right-wing agitprop. We used to produce things in this country, but corporations now simply look for ways to skew the playing field and defraud the middle class of its wealth.
Well said Gov. Christie. The way Gov Brown is handling his union issues is one way to tackle the problem, they way you intend to is another. I guess we get to watch and see who's way works better.
It is an American right to organize within labor. We founded our principles and economy on it. But look to the founding fathers of organized labor, look to FDR and he even saw the dangers of what collective bargaining and having too much power in the hands of unions would do. There is no more free money - that's the unpleasant face we ALL must face. And we ALL must sacrifice equally towards the collective good. One is collecting from the other.
@divisioneight Surrender yourself and what's yours, but don't come near me and mine with that disgusting tone of human sacrifice and servitude to some kind of 'collective' good. How many humans have been sacrificed to your greater good already? Over 100 million?
How authoritarian does one have to be in order to tell others they must fall in line with a plan that isn't their own, or that the wants of their fellow man out-weight the rights of one to pursue their own happiness?
@TheAmericanApologist : I presume you are "pro-union" and support their rights. Do you know that in order for them to have these rights, it must be paid for by others besides themselves. I am surrendering myself (tax dollars) to others already. My authority is non-existent as I nave no voice, no lobby, no political activist screaming for my rights in Washington. The bozo's I elect once every two years get most of their campaign dollars from union activists. Where's my Constitutional rights?
@divisioneight What possible evidence do you have for that hasty and wildly off-target presumption? No, I don't support public sector unions, I agree with FDR, public sector unions are unethical.
That issue aside, no, the cost of union burgling does not have to be paid for by others. Sadly, your overpowering sense of entitlement and strong-handed authority come shining through brightly. The huge union lobby (read: special interest) in Washington is also quite demanding and spoiled too.
@TheAmericanApologist None sir - I misread you completely. My apologies. Having taken time to re-read your previous posting I understand now where you are coming from. My referral to the "collective good" is slightly tongue-in-cheek. More to the point, I was meaning balancing the scales between the silent middle class and the unionized middle class. It irks me to hear them call themselves like me and representing my rights.
@divisioneight Then by all means, return rhetorical fire and fight the good fight, comrade.
The conversational wires were crossed a bit there, blame aside it seems we agree on the distinction between middle-class producers, and middle-class looters. At best we seem to disagree about the concept of a 'collective good', I find it best to avoid its direct use, or even friendly sounding reference to it. Rand, it seems, was right: every dictator in history invoked collectivism and the greater good.
@vulturesign Anyone who gains wealth by not producing/contributing anything to the economy is thereby looting it. This isn't up to me, so spar me the attempt of placing this in my lap. Now, some looting is practical (police, over-paid teachers, etc) but to preserve liberty we have to trim back the reaching tentacles of organized looting - we don't need $117,000 janitors.
On Rand, I don't see much in the way of a convincing refutation. What's wrong with receiving that which one has paid for?
Spare me your nonsensensical name calling. I know what teachers, firefighters and police contribute to society. I'd like to know what YOU contribute apart from spreading misinformation. How many janitors make $117K? A CEO of a Standard & Poor’s (S&P) 500 index company was paid, on average, $9.25 million in total compensation in 2009! Much much more than their counterparts in Europe and the rest of the world. Give me a break.
No one is an island, no matter how selfish they are
If you really want to know who the "looters" are, let me recommend the Academy Award winning documentary "Inside Job" about the systemic corruption of the United States by the financial services industry and the consequences of that systemic corruption. Working class Americans (whether in the public or private sector) are not the villains.
@AA, Rand took more from the government than what she paid in. She took more than just a “refund,” thus, according to her philiosphy, she was using funds taken from others by "force". This is exactly what she is decries, hence the hypocrisy.
Rand's philosphy can be pretty much summed up with this quote taken from her journals, "What is good for me is right."
@TheAmericanApologist I believe the unions have the right to make offers up for debate. Corporations do that all the time and in secret and those negotiations are much worse to the taxpayer than any union
@TheAmericanApologist Police and teachers are overpaid? Are you kidding me? Do you know the average salary for teachers and police? Not to mention they are two of the biggest and most important foundations in the structure of the country. They care for you, protect you, educate you, educate your children, and provide a basic and almost completely free daycare while your children are at school anyways. Get your head out of your ass and into the real world.
Have you heard of the social contract whereby individuals unite into a society by a process of mutual consent, agreeing to abide by certain rules and to accept duties to protect and care for one another? We give up sovereignty to a government to receive or maintain social order through the rule of law. It's an agreement by the governed on a set of rules by which they are governed. The concept is fundamental to American Liberty. Read the Declaration of Indepence (and the Founding Fathers)!
@vulturesign The SC is rendered invalid if the state ventures beyond the scope we've allowed it. Should the state insist on acting like a fool, by telling me how to handle my health care for example, there are inherent right to resist breaches of liberty. Your confusion can be cleared up by reading Jefferson/Paine/Locke, or any other enlightenment thinker.
The founders went to great lengths to keep the state checked, it's a shame to see people completely miss the point of their labor.
@ AA, the SC is dependent on the will of the people. You don't want "your" money going to supporting the public good. You don't like universal healthcare? And you think this renders the SC "invalid?" What are you advocating? Revolution? Armed resistance? Treason? Second Ammendment solutions?
I have read Jefferson/Paine/Locke/Rousseau as well as more modern philiosopers like Rawls and Gauthier but I really question whether you have and if you have whether you have understood them.
FDR was only against public employees striking, which is a far different question than the issue of whether public employees should have the right to organize unions and bargain collectively over their wages, benefits, and working conditions.
This letter, which is being constantly misused to claim that FDR opposed public sector unions, was actually written congratulating a federal employee's union on it's 20th Anniversary.
If you read the letter in it's entirety, it is clear that what FDR is really concerned about is STRIKES by public sector workers.
There can be little doubt that FDR would support collective bargaining for public sector workers today!
"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry."
"Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government."
Strange that those on right don't have a problem with government bargaining with the corporations who fund their campaigns and give them jobs when they leave public office. Union members are a minority in both the public and private sectors and they don't wield nearly as much power as the corporations whose lobbyists essentially write Republican legislation.
It's ok for corporations to dominate policy debates by buying every member of Congress. Unions didn't sink the stock market or create this financial catatrophe in the first place- asking them and the taxpayers to tighten our belts after a multi-Trillion dollar bailout for Wall Street is a slap in the face.
@ AA, do you really think public workers should have no say in how their workplace operates?
Public sector collective bargaining has been widely recognized around the world and until the recent GOP/TP attacks in the vast majority of US states and it has actually worked quite well (with some room for improvement).
For more info google the EPRN White Paper "Getting it Right: Empirical Evidence and Policy Implications from Research on Public-Sector Unionism and Collective Bargaining."
Christie’s Talk Is Blunt, but Not Always Straight.
Lies about unions. Lies about how working people live. Lies calculated to manipulate the public into supporting making the lives of working people even more difficult. Class warfare.
@vulturesign: The only class warfare is the union lobby forcing politicians to give into their demands and which in turn forces politicians to use taxes to fund the union demands on the backs of taxpayers who are not part of any union or organized labor force. Those taxpayers are happy not to be part of any union or organized labor force. The non-unionized middle class is under attack by the unionized "middle" class.
@divisioneight The most grating (if not frustratingly insulting) aspect of your dilemma is that the same people who actively participate in that union racket you just described are the same people that commonly insist that we haven't really given enough yet - they seem to need just a little bit more every year.
Having to pay for this (dis)service is one thing, but to be continually raked over the coals of increasing costs for the whole shifty scheme may be a whole new tier of absurdity.
You can thank organized labor for the 40 hour week, vacation pay, holiday pay, Social Security, Medicare, safety laws, minimum wage, an end to child labor, etc. etc. etc.
I can understand your frustration with unions if you are one of the Top2% (or one of their paid mouthpieces).
What nonsense. Unionized workers are barely keeping their heads above water while the incomes for the Top 2% are going through the roof. The middle class is NOT under attack from organized labor. Where do you people get this nonsense from? THINK!
@divisioneight The non -union sector has been riding the coat tails of union labor since the beginning of organized labor. It was present 100 years ago and present now. When unions go so will better wages for working class Americans. The gap will widen between the haves and have- nots and class warfare will be entrenched in our society. Good or bad, who has taken it on the chin for the working class? The Dept. of Labor, state and local politiicans? Who? Unions! Not perfect but it's all we have.
the unions must work together to shut down the economy until rights are restored a simple example of 500 or more tractor trailers blocking highways surrounding political buildingd, garbage piling up no snow removal, but the unions must hold steadfast in denying all services until rights are restored,
the unions must work together to shut down the economy until rights are restored a simple example of 500 or more tractor trailers blocking highways surrounding political buildingd, garbage piling up no snow removal, but the unions must hold steadfast in denying all services until rights are restored,
@jagg1951 Your solution to the financial issues is to hold the economy hostage? Like children throwing a fit, the unions and their collectivist supporters show their grace in negotiation and resourcefulness in a crisis.
The jaw-dropping sense of entitlement among the looters is staggering. Collectivists now claim their selfish plundering is a right? I had no idea people could be so solipsistic.
And if the kids don't get their way, guess what they'll do?
When the powers that be choose to circumvent the democratic process by doing an endrun around the rules then there is obviously no good faith in the bargaining process on their part and other means must be used to restore the democrtic bargaining process
A handful of Republicans in the senate held our nation hostage for years and made real reform impossible
What looting/plundering are you talking about? The 19 Trillion dollar bailout of the banks? The immense transfer of wealth upwards to the Top 2% that has occurred over the last few decades?
The GOP/TP majority in the House is now threatening to shut down our whole country if they don't get their way.
The real costs are the sectors who hide money trying to use the short falls to grab cheap properties and to nullify community contributions and benefits. Economic politics are used as legalism and rituals for concentration of power. Why can't govt create jobs with community infrastructures and community small businesses? Is it just another superstitious religious of a super power?
Don't always blame the short fall on the population. Evolve and make new tools and technologies for our economy, our communities, ourselves and our kids.
Where are the money? Everybody is spending for a long time but where are the money gone? Who hides the money? Money is our tool and technology for our economic activities. Who took our tools and technologies from us? If we can find out then we have to invent some new tools and technologies to replace those old tools and technologies. Where are the money? When can we make new replacement? It is Now!
Fundamental human rights - of who? Human rights of union workers or the ones who have to pay the taxes that fund union worker's lives? Who funds the private sector's lives, private sector workers without pensions, with costly, basic health care with high deductibles? Where's the "union" that private sector workers belong to? Can I get twelve paid holidays off a year? Can I get a "Cadillac" insurance policy?
@divisioneight, everyone should have the right to join a union and bargain collectively! Freedom of association is a fundamental human right! Unions have fought hard to give ALL workers things like weekends, unemployment insurance and social security. You might be able cut a better deal for yourself if you ORGANIZE! Join or start a union. This is exactly what the Republicans who represent the top 2% don't want.
@vulturesign I have nothing against folks organizing. But at whose expense do the results of this "organizing" come vulturesign? These benefits cost money. The money tree has stopped giving money. You cannot collect taxes from a foreclosed home or an unemployed worker. So if you want to keep your perks of being a union member, you must go somewhere else to get the money to pay for those perks. (i.e. - increased dues, paycheck with holdings, etc). Are you ready to pay more?
In the US, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers).
Social Security has taken in trillions more than it has or ever payed out but it's broke? It has been used to finance big Government.That's right it goes straight to the Federal Reserve who cash up off shore banks who are demanding more.The people agreed to pay it interest free! Give it away? Lets don't burden the wealthy. They might cut you off! Take every dime in earmarks you can steal and our liberty while you can. The last election was part 1 of a 2 part plan.You just don't get it! OK..
Social Security has taken in trillions more than it has or ever will pay out but it's broke? It has been used to finance big Government.That's right it goes straight to the Federal Reserve who cash up off shore banks who are demanding more.The people agreed to pay it interest free! Give it away? Lets don't burden the wealthy. They might cut you off! Take every dime in earmarks you can steal and our liberty while you can. The last election was part 1 of a 2 part plan.You just don't get it! OK..
Fundamental human rights, like freedom of association (and the right to bargain collectively), are NOT "legislatively created.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Workers fought hard, and paid dearly, to have their rights recognized and protected by legislation. Now politicians like Christie want to unilaterally take away what they struggled years to accomplish. Disgusting!
Only 5 states (not "PLENTY") don't have collective bargaining for educators...those states rank as follows, re: avg. SAT+ACT scores: South Carolina 50th, North Carolina 49th, Georgia 48th, Texas 47th, Virginia 44th. Wisconsin is 2nd...for now
@klrdotorg, thanks for the compliment. These rants are actually my own thoughts (with one or two exceptions [e.g. cookie joke]) . You want to get into the details about something in particular? Look, I admit some public workers have it pretty good (e.g. cops in my hometown in the burbs make 100k+ and retire in 20 years basically chasing kids throwing snowballs). Obviously we should RENEGOTIATE these kinds of deals! Deficits are a problem but destroying unions is not the solution.
@klrdotorg Roosevelt opposed collective bargaining for the National Federation of Federal Employees. There is a difference between Federal Employees and Civil Service Employees. Civil Service employees have the right to collective bargaining. Please see the Civil Service Employee Association (CSEA) for more information as they are standing in solidarity with Wisconsin.
@klrdotorg, FDR did not oppose public employee unions. He opposed strikes by federal public employee unions.
When Republicans who hate everything FDR ever did start quoting FDR in support of one of their middle-class destroying or union-bashing attacks, the public should assume they are lying.
He's a loyal pawn of the GOP and subscribes to Karl Rove strategies. GOP would like the taxpayers to fund all the Charter Schools they plan on building. This is why he's going after teachers. Karl Rove knows that Union dues all across America can influence the outcome of an election. Eliminate the unions and you get full control. Rove recommended Christie for U.S. Attorney.
Christie is the best Governor in the U.S. - imo. It's easy to give in, pass the problem along - as most others have. It's takes guts to take on the powerful Public Employee Union - and tell them that things are going to change. Liberals hate him - because he's winning. This is not about unions ... it's about Public Employee Unions - who negotiate their contracts with the people they helped elect. It's rigged. And it's bankrupting states. Period.
@klrdotorg, if you don't think there is adversarial relationship between management and workers in the public sector you've never worked in the public sector. I was a teacher at an inner-city publlic school and let me tell you the adminstration and city was NOT on our side. Working conditions were awful. The union was our only real ally. Workers need unions and collective bargaining to have a say in how their workplace operates. Check out Mayor Bloomberg's recent NYTs oped piece.
First off, I have much respect for inner-city teachers. It's not an easy job.
Your experience may have been adversarial, but many regions aren't. The Public Employee Unions help Democrats get elected - more than any other interest group. If you don't think that creates a rigged bargaining situation, than you're not being honest. It's bankrupting my state, and many others.
Bloomberg is currently fighting the unions. He wants bad ones fired - the unions won't let him.
This isn't just about public employees. It's about trying to destroy all unions and take away collective bargaining from all workers to make the rich richer and undermine support for the democrats. It's a longstanding Republican strategy. The budget nonsense is just pretect. The public knows it. Now that it's backfiring on them watch the GOP try to back peddle. If you are really worried about people negotiating with the people they helped elect look at the military contrators. And lobbying.
This IS about Public Unions. NOT private unions. Nice talking points. There is no way that any republicans are going to "destroy all unions and take away collective bargaining from all workers ..." Can't be done. They couldn't do it - even if they were the 100% majority. That spin sells in the union halls, but most people aren't buying it - I know I'm not.
We're broke, worse than broke. You think budget cuts are bad now? Wait 'til interest rates go up.
Don't kid yourself. This IS NOT just about Public Unions.
House Republicans just passed legislation cutting funding for (and attempted to totally defund) the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) an agency charged with conducting elections for labor union representation and with investigating and remedying unfair labor practices in the PRIVATE SECTOR.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Just look at individual GOP/TP candidates and see what their position is on unions and collective bargaining.
My eyes are wide open. You're right that many Republicans and TP candidates don't like unions. Doesn't mean they can do anything to "bust" them. But I hope they bust the Public Unions. That would be a great day. If not, we'll continue to add debt.
@klrdotorg, if you are really worried about our National Debt (as I am) look at our military spending. By some estimates our military-related expenditures EXCEED ONE TRILLION DOLLARS per year. We spend nearly as much as the rest of the world combined not to defend America but to enrich government contractors and protect the interests of multinations corporations and foreign powers.
Republicans haven't really been worried about the deficits since Reagan TRIPLED our National Debt.
I thought you liberal mush heads are supposed to be open minded and fact base thinkers? Youre hateful little people that need government to make things fair for you because your weak. Shut up and work like the rest of us and stop asking the tax payers to fund your liberal social justice agenda. What part of broke dont you understand? Were broke so spoiled unions need to suffer with the people paying for their benefits.
@vulturesign Not true! When Reagan came into office the debt was 32.5 percent of GDP when he left it was 43 percent of GDP an increase of 11 % He proved trickle down works and the country was booming. Look at the debt after 2 Obama years! You want Reagan back huh? lol
@Shytebrick, Under Reagan our debt went from about $700 billion to over $2 trillion (our GDP grew as we came out of recession despite Reagan). After Bush, our debt was over $4 trillion. Contrast Democrats and "old-style conservatives (Eisenhower and Nixon)" on one hand (decreasing debt), and "new-style Reagan Republicans" on the other (increasing debt). Obama was forced to increase our debt to clean up the mess long-standing "Republican" policies (e.g. blind deregulation) created.
That said, I'm not even sure whether Obama should really be considered a "Democrat." Apart from his bungled attempt at healthcare reform (single payer would have been much better AND clearly constitutional) he's been acting far more like a Republican (e.g. banker bailouts, war-mongering, etc.). Still he's better than what the GOP/TP is offering us.
Since when is socialized medicine constitutional, and since when are conservatives for bailouts? (a keynsian relic of the left; not the right).
Also, the top 1% carries more than 40% of the total tax burden of the country. Why do you so conveniently leave that out? If anything, those corporations who are makiing obscene amounts of money are doing so because of government intervention--yet you and lefties are in favor of more of it!
@regelemihai, The Veterans Health Administration, the military health care system, and the Indian Health Service are all examples of "socialized medicine." Medicare and Medicaid are forms of publicly-funded health care, which fits the looser definition of socialized medicine. You think these are unconstitutional? Bush not Obama enacted TARP and signed the Bank Bailout into law. Get your facts straight. Google "Debt by U.S. presidential term" to see which party is more fiscally responsible.
@regelemihai The New Deal Supreme Court constitutionally sanctioned almost any federal legislation under the commerce clause (see wickard, heart of atlanta, etc.) It is no longer a federal government of enumerated powers. worded correctly,
@spacepatrolman Reagan led this country like a true American Leader with a greatness that will not be matched by the present moron. Reagan also proved that cutting taxes and allowing people to spend their own money instead the government doing it for them boosts the economy, grows the economy and increases revenues to the government!! It’s called Trickle Down or Reaganomics. What other President has an economic philosophy named after them? It’s the only PROVEN philosophy. Economic justice fails!
@Shytebrick ralph nader said that reagan was the worst president since grant [ and he was an alcoholic ] he assumed a lot of credit for the soviet union falling apart when it was economic strife reagonomics was just a buzz word campaighn slogan that bush used like the great society of johnson /when clinton was president he put cops on the street crime went down the economy went up and he paid the deficit
@spacepatrolman Clinton had a Republican Congress that made him balance the budget! And who cares what Nader said lol Facts are facts when taxes are low and companies thrive, more people get hired and more people make money. You can try and dispute that some how but you cant with fact.
@Shytebrick everyone cares what ralph nader said he saved millions of lives with seat beltsd airbags air pollultion laws water pollution laws the safe meat packing act the safe fish handling act ,the seamans bank was in business since 1896 but went out of business with bushinomics same with dry docvk bank and the bowery bank
"clinton had repubs in congress that made him balance the budget."
where were those repubs when bush was running trillion dolllar wars, medicare part D, raiding social security fund to pay for war, etc etc? i'm not a lefty either (I love ron paul) but i'm just saying.
@Shytebrick, Although trickle-down economics is often associated with Ronald Reagan, the theory actually dates back to the 1920s. Humorist Will Rogers coined the term, saying, "The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes it would trickle down to the needy." It was also called the Horse and Sparrow theory. Feed the horse enough oats and some will pass through.The Harding, Coolidge and Kennedy administrations all tried supply-side tax policies before Reagan did.
@vulturesign I’m not saying “Capitalism” didn’t exist before Reagan! I'm just saying that his opinion that "Government is the problem", low corporate tax creates jobs, puts more people to work creating more spending, stimulates the economy and raises revenues to the government trough taxes. He proved less government worked. Hell look at it now! It's opposite of what Reagan wanted and were sinking fast!
"Most Americans are worse off than they were ten years ago, a dozen years ago, so it's actually trickle up economics. All the gains in our economic growth have gone to those at the top."
— Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics and author of Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy
@vulturesign If our system is such a disaster can you explain how the youngest country in the world not only formed using this system but grew faster and passed all other socialistic countries to become the ONLY super power in the world in such short time frame? Tell Stiglitz to bite me! Most Americans are worse off because the government is over taxing, over reaching and in interfering too much in our lives.
How could anyone listen to a fat guy that's speaking about 'stability'?When he sits around the governors office, He sits 'AROUND' the governors office. I hate the way these bastards talk about fiscal responsibilitiy when their dumb ass party started 2 Wars that cost us 13 Billion dollars per month.Someone needs to stick an apple in this boars mouth & feed him to the poor. Oh, about raising taxes? This bastard wants to extend the retirement age.That right there is a huge tax inrease Twinkie man
@rleary1 I can always rely on the left to use ad hominem, and leave the door wide open in the process. It's almost too easy!
The Republicrats didn't start two wars, grow up. You forget two salient facts: we were attacked on 9/11, and we are legally obligated to prevent or punish genocide. We went into wars because we had to. Also, your aggressive and hateful rhetoric is what contributes to political violence, I find it highly offensive.
Why is the left so unashamed about their open hatred?
@TheAmericanApologist There's a problem. I'm a Conservative that grew to hate Repubs & what they've become.When I vote I vote for whomever seems the less dishonest. Dem party sucks too. We did bomb Afghanistan & I was all for it. As far as Iraq (& mushroom cloud/WMD campaign) it was complete BS & I was ashamed I'd voted for Bush.When I typed this I knew someone would call me Lib/Left etc. & that's absurd.3 people that I hate? Olbermann, Beck & Limbaugh. Well, we got rid of 1 of them at least!
@TheAmericanApologist Why aren't we in any of the other 37 wars currently in the world? Isn't there genocide in Darfur, Somali etc.?? If we're so 'legally obligated' to prevent/punish genocide why aren't we over there? We might have been defending ourselves bombing Afghanistan but Iraq was a total lie. Even Pat Buchanon knows that & is a true non nation building Republican. I like Buchanon. Why is the Right so fast to claim me Left?
wait wait.. 0% inflation? who the fuck is he kidding? with the price of gas through the roof.. with the price of food going up, with the price of housing going up... i think that is called, um, inflation :p just a wild shot in the dark here..
Arrogance. having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. This man is arrogant. He exaggerates everything to fit his spectacularly insane view. He is basically saying their are no rights anybody has unless the elected officials say they do. That's their position. Control with no opposition. They want a monopoly of of the legal, financial, and military systems. They are fermenting war at all times. As the sand of our treasure is piles high. We allow it.
He's just another Old School FatCat Plutocrat. Every last one of these rich white men hates working people and won't be happy until they rob us of our Social Security money and they can finally return this nation to the days of the Robber Barons at the turn of the last century. You know, those "good old days." A time when people of the working classes finally outlived their usefulness to the social elites and would simply drop dead in the street when they became sick, penniless wretches.
@vulturesign The ability to use money taken from your neighbors to fund overly generous benefits while making political contributions to keep the gravy pouring is a human right?
Just because a bunch of people are doing something doesn't mean America ought to. Arguments from popularity are boring and unconvincing, it's a bit like being told that your personal views are not in-line with opinion polls - who cares? The US is the economic engine of the world, why take advice from lesser nations?
Public employees, such as teachers, have traded higher wages for better benefits. Studies controlling for education, skill levels etc. show that public workers earn less in total compensation (including benefits) than comparable private sector employees. Now you want to RENEGE? What about the sanctity of contract? I guess you don't think waterboarding is torture either?
Although the US might still havce a relatively high GDP per worker this is largely because US workers work far longer than their counterparts in other developed countries. Unfortunately far too much of the wealth generated goes not to the workers but those at the very top. The Top 1% in US own something like 40% of all the wealth, a level of inequality not seen since before the Great Depression and one of the very highest in the world. The US is in steep economic and moral decline.
You want to see obscene wages? Look no further than Wall Street and the CEOs of big US corporations who "earn" SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES what their lowest paid employees make (and far more than their counterparts in Europe and Asia for doing exactly the same job).
I should perhaps preface this by saying that so long as those bonuses are paid without the use of coercion (meaning unions, bailouts, or tax-funded support of any variety) this is simply not a matter for our concern. Some people (hate to say it) are worth more than others from the standpoint of productive output.
Do you suppose that society should be in the business of telling it's citizens what they're allowed to earn for themselves, by the work they perform?
Unfortunately executive compensation has nothing to do with productive output. In “Pay Without Performance: The Unfulfilled Promise of Executive Compensation” Bebchuk and Fried show that corporate governance in America is best described as a “managerial power” model in which C.E.O.’s have sufficient power over their boards to dictate their own compensation at the expense of shareholders (and the general public). Obviously, shareholders should have a greater say in executive compensation.
@vulturesign Those numbers should be treated skeptically. Just to give one example of why, America is somehow docked points for NOT having socialized medicine and other left-wing favorites. Basically, one has to challenge to premises under which the numbers were arrived at. Lucky for us America is known to be the critical hub of international medical technology and development and pushes the bleeding edge of break-through treatments before many other countries do.
Unfortunately, despite our growing reliance on expensive "bleeding edge" medical technology and procedures the US has been dropping in relative life expectancy compared to the rest of the world.
Currently we rank 49th for male life expectancy and 46th for female. This is pathetic.
We spend more and get less for our healthcare dollars than any other 1st world country.
The US has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any developed nation today, and that gap continues to grow. This could undermine and destabilize the country's economy and standard of living. As Alan Greenspan has observed, "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".
Unions are not the problem, they are part of the solution.
@vulturesign You're putting your creaky cart before your wheezing horse. One of the reasons we see that wealth disparity is due to unions redistributing wealth from the workers to the organizers and politicians who keep the gravy train rolling. To be honest, I'm sick of seeing the Gov involved in the economy at all, given all the problems (looting of the public purse in the case of unions, and bailouts in the case of big business) it creates. Can we just earn a living without Gov?
This is just plain delusional. As union membership has dropped in the US we have seen a growing concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. In contrast countries with strong unions and collective bargaining have much greater equality.
So you don't want the government involved in the economy at all? OK how about we get rid of corporations along with trademark and copyright protections? These are products of government intervention. There is no such thing as a "Free Market."
A union employee, a tea party activist, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the tea partier and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie."
"These laws .... didn't come down from a mountain on tablets" - wow. Guess what else didn't come down from a mountain on tablets - The United States Constitution, you ignorant piece of shit.
I believe in, and practice freedom of speech. You can take away that right from paper from me, but goddammit I will still speak up!
The right to organize should be a basic human right and certainly an American Right in a country that prides itself of freedom. To deny people the right to organize is to be a dictator and is oppressive. Christie is an arrogant hot shot that will over reach. He has already lied to his citizens by taking steps he promised not to in the campaign. He has exposed his lack of character.
@afblac No one possess a right to loot and redistribute other people's property. If one assumes that they have a right to their neighbor's property, that person is exactly the type our founders warned us about.
On the subject of oppressiveness, are we free to NOT support your ideas? Or are they a function of coercion? ;)
You make a salient point though: the alarming amount of authority and entitlement expressed by pro-union types makes freedom-minded citizens raise an eyebrow in concern.
Freedom of association is an important individual right to come together with other individuals and collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests (and it includes the right to form unions and bargain collectively). The US Supreme Court held in NAACP v. Alabama that freedom of association is an essential part of the Freedom of Speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others.
You are a stupid ass. In the real world poor people do not make enough money to support a retirement program. When these people get into their 60's and 70's and are no longer employable, what will we do with them if they do not have social security? Are we just going to leave them in the streets? Republicans hate taking care of the elderly, the sick, the poor, and the veterans. They call this redistributing wealth. I just want to know what their alternative is. Millions of homeless?
shitstick63 3 weeks ago
@shitstick63 The Republicans are just as pro SS as Democrats. It is fiscal conservatives (which Republicans are not) that want to do something about SS. Very very few want to replace it with nothing. And in those cases, they don't hate taking care of the elderly, sick, or poor. They want more control over it. They don't want the government controlling it. It is called charity.
bmlong137 1 week ago
@bmlong137 Bullshit! Republicans hate social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, and any other program that helps the poor, elderly, or sick. We cannot tax out way out of our problems. The problem with our countries economy is a result of NAFTA, and the Iraq war. Our economy is where it will remain until we address the trade deficit. We are bleeding money every week, until this stops we will continue on a downward spiral. This is from a FOX news contributor.
shitstick63 1 week ago
Respect. This is what sets Christie apart. He is balanced. That's what makes him a consummate negotiator.
combinatoric 1 month ago
ITs sad that everyone here is going after him for being overweight yet I have not found one comment debating something he has done. Get a life and a brain people.
CorranHorn3331 1 month ago
I believe that Chris Christie would eat all of Americas GDP. If he ran/became president.
BearWrestler1013 4 months ago
if all the left wing socialists have are donuts and fat jokes he must be pretty damn good. He knows that the correct way to straighten out this country- but it is a difficult road for those who choose not to work hard and really try to succeed .Its time to stop being victims and work to better yourself and quit looking for others to give it to you. Christie would make a great president
ronpi4286 4 months ago
0 inflation world what world does he live?
phildirt3 4 months ago
@phildirt3 The every other job in america world. Inflation was the wrong term, but his point was clear.
bmlong137 1 week ago
Google Chris Christies Pants
chrischristiespants 4 months ago
Let us do America a favor and Rollback Christie's heart beat, that Nazi Fascist Fat Ass Pig!
lionssong2525 5 months ago
Union employees ARE TAXPAYERS!
lionssong2525 5 months ago
@lionssong2525 They are only an employee because of other taxpayers. The Union public worker cannot exist without the private sector taxpayer
o5iiawah 1 month ago
@o5iiawah - Yes very accurate and true comment. We need balance between private and public jobs. Right now since the Bush administration this country has gone way too far to the right with private business sending millions of jobs overseas while the corporations not only pay zero taxes, they get tax subsidies from taxes we pay. The Bush administration destroyed our economical cash flow for all to benefit from our system by allowing so many jobs to be sent overseas.
lionssong2525 1 month ago
Well I'm all for merit based pay raises for teachers if its administered properly. I just don't want to see that become corrupt like almost everything else government touches
enjoyitbro 5 months ago
LARDO IN 2012....DONUTS FOR EVERYBODY!!
HUMANSAREBENEATHME 5 months ago
If he runs and America elects him than this colletively INCOMPETENT nation of human splooge deserves exactly what it gets, and as for Obama, what a dissapointment, truly. The man could have used the machinery of the institution to hold monies from his apponents to get what he wants and he just squandered it, just like the others before him, and now the myth of weak liberals is all but indelible. Now,it's the monsters turn, and are you people FUCKED! Christie can't bring the economy back either.
imaginativelads 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
HAHA.. It's funny cuz' Christie if Fat & Lazy. His face actually reminds me of Porky Pig. I can just hear him wheezing after taking 3 stairs. Of course that would be impossible. This fat F' is definitely an elevator guy.
rleary1 7 months ago
Comment removed
rleary1 7 months ago
Why aren't there mass protests here in the US, given that the Top1% of Americans control nearly 40% of the wealth? Check out "Of the 1%, by the 1% for the 1%" by Nobel Prize Winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, in the new issue of Vanity Fair.
vulturesign 11 months ago
"teachers union is looting our money" and there i was... thinking that americans couldn't get any dumber...
Darusdei 11 months ago
The fight in Wisconsin has focused the nation's attention on collective bargaining and its role in a democratic society. Other states facing fiscal crises are watching the battle there. Unfortunately, because of the highly partisan nature of the fight in Wisconsin, the debate has shed more heat than light. Get the FACTS by googling this article: "Public-sector collective bargaining has a proud history"
vulturesign 11 months ago
It's hard to find good teachers willing to work in the toughest schools now, these constant attacks and cuts will only make it harder. Folks don't go into teaching because they are interested in "merit pay." They do it to help kids. Taking away their voice in how their workplace operates (through collective bargaining) just makes the profession even less appealing.
vulturesign 11 months ago
Why is the US trying to export the anti-union model to the developing world instead of demanding fair labor practices from our trading partners (ro help level the playing field for American workers)?
vulturesign 11 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
Historians of the future will probably be mystified by today's American middle class and how they incrementally voted themselves out of existence and into poverty as a permanent underclass. Since the Reagan administration, the TV watching public has been fed a relentless diet of corporate disinformation and extreme right-wing agitprop. We used to produce things in this country, but corporations now simply look for ways to skew the playing field and defraud the middle class of its wealth.
Vox91 11 months ago
Well said Gov. Christie. The way Gov Brown is handling his union issues is one way to tackle the problem, they way you intend to is another. I guess we get to watch and see who's way works better.
g0ddessm0ther 11 months ago 5
It is an American right to organize within labor. We founded our principles and economy on it. But look to the founding fathers of organized labor, look to FDR and he even saw the dangers of what collective bargaining and having too much power in the hands of unions would do. There is no more free money - that's the unpleasant face we ALL must face. And we ALL must sacrifice equally towards the collective good. One is collecting from the other.
divisioneight 11 months ago
@divisioneight Surrender yourself and what's yours, but don't come near me and mine with that disgusting tone of human sacrifice and servitude to some kind of 'collective' good. How many humans have been sacrificed to your greater good already? Over 100 million?
How authoritarian does one have to be in order to tell others they must fall in line with a plan that isn't their own, or that the wants of their fellow man out-weight the rights of one to pursue their own happiness?
Non serviam!
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
@TheAmericanApologist : I presume you are "pro-union" and support their rights. Do you know that in order for them to have these rights, it must be paid for by others besides themselves. I am surrendering myself (tax dollars) to others already. My authority is non-existent as I nave no voice, no lobby, no political activist screaming for my rights in Washington. The bozo's I elect once every two years get most of their campaign dollars from union activists. Where's my Constitutional rights?
divisioneight 11 months ago
@divisioneight What possible evidence do you have for that hasty and wildly off-target presumption? No, I don't support public sector unions, I agree with FDR, public sector unions are unethical.
That issue aside, no, the cost of union burgling does not have to be paid for by others. Sadly, your overpowering sense of entitlement and strong-handed authority come shining through brightly. The huge union lobby (read: special interest) in Washington is also quite demanding and spoiled too.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
@TheAmericanApologist None sir - I misread you completely. My apologies. Having taken time to re-read your previous posting I understand now where you are coming from. My referral to the "collective good" is slightly tongue-in-cheek. More to the point, I was meaning balancing the scales between the silent middle class and the unionized middle class. It irks me to hear them call themselves like me and representing my rights.
divisioneight 11 months ago 2
@divisioneight Then by all means, return rhetorical fire and fight the good fight, comrade.
The conversational wires were crossed a bit there, blame aside it seems we agree on the distinction between middle-class producers, and middle-class looters. At best we seem to disagree about the concept of a 'collective good', I find it best to avoid its direct use, or even friendly sounding reference to it. Rand, it seems, was right: every dictator in history invoked collectivism and the greater good.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
So you are calling workers in the public sector such as teachers, firefighters, police etc. are "looters"? Do you hear yourself?
Ayn Rand was a hypocrit. She railed against government Benefits, but grabbed Social Security and Medicare when she needed them.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign Anyone who gains wealth by not producing/contributing anything to the economy is thereby looting it. This isn't up to me, so spar me the attempt of placing this in my lap. Now, some looting is practical (police, over-paid teachers, etc) but to preserve liberty we have to trim back the reaching tentacles of organized looting - we don't need $117,000 janitors.
On Rand, I don't see much in the way of a convincing refutation. What's wrong with receiving that which one has paid for?
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago 3
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
Spare me your nonsensensical name calling. I know what teachers, firefighters and police contribute to society. I'd like to know what YOU contribute apart from spreading misinformation. How many janitors make $117K? A CEO of a Standard & Poor’s (S&P) 500 index company was paid, on average, $9.25 million in total compensation in 2009! Much much more than their counterparts in Europe and the rest of the world. Give me a break.
No one is an island, no matter how selfish they are
vulturesign 11 months ago
If you really want to know who the "looters" are, let me recommend the Academy Award winning documentary "Inside Job" about the systemic corruption of the United States by the financial services industry and the consequences of that systemic corruption. Working class Americans (whether in the public or private sector) are not the villains.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@AA, Rand took more from the government than what she paid in. She took more than just a “refund,” thus, according to her philiosphy, she was using funds taken from others by "force". This is exactly what she is decries, hence the hypocrisy.
Rand's philosphy can be pretty much summed up with this quote taken from her journals, "What is good for me is right."
vulturesign 11 months ago
@TheAmericanApologist I believe the unions have the right to make offers up for debate. Corporations do that all the time and in secret and those negotiations are much worse to the taxpayer than any union
CrossCreed4800 5 months ago
@TheAmericanApologist Police and teachers are overpaid? Are you kidding me? Do you know the average salary for teachers and police? Not to mention they are two of the biggest and most important foundations in the structure of the country. They care for you, protect you, educate you, educate your children, and provide a basic and almost completely free daycare while your children are at school anyways. Get your head out of your ass and into the real world.
TheOuroboros21 5 months ago
Have you heard of the social contract whereby individuals unite into a society by a process of mutual consent, agreeing to abide by certain rules and to accept duties to protect and care for one another? We give up sovereignty to a government to receive or maintain social order through the rule of law. It's an agreement by the governed on a set of rules by which they are governed. The concept is fundamental to American Liberty. Read the Declaration of Indepence (and the Founding Fathers)!
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign The SC is rendered invalid if the state ventures beyond the scope we've allowed it. Should the state insist on acting like a fool, by telling me how to handle my health care for example, there are inherent right to resist breaches of liberty. Your confusion can be cleared up by reading Jefferson/Paine/Locke, or any other enlightenment thinker.
The founders went to great lengths to keep the state checked, it's a shame to see people completely miss the point of their labor.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago 3
@ AA, the SC is dependent on the will of the people. You don't want "your" money going to supporting the public good. You don't like universal healthcare? And you think this renders the SC "invalid?" What are you advocating? Revolution? Armed resistance? Treason? Second Ammendment solutions?
I have read Jefferson/Paine/Locke/Rousseau as well as more modern philiosopers like Rawls and Gauthier but I really question whether you have and if you have whether you have understood them.
vulturesign 11 months ago
FDR was only against public employees striking, which is a far different question than the issue of whether public employees should have the right to organize unions and bargain collectively over their wages, benefits, and working conditions.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign You make me fear for the plain meaning of words, he believed the complete opposite.
In his letter to the president of the NFFE (16 August, 1937), FDR states, very succinctly:
"...collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service."
Now, how difficult is this to hoist in?
One can access this letter easily if they bothered to Google it. You should read it sometime!
The routine ignorance (or dishonesty) of the left is boring.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago 2
This letter, which is being constantly misused to claim that FDR opposed public sector unions, was actually written congratulating a federal employee's union on it's 20th Anniversary.
If you read the letter in it's entirety, it is clear that what FDR is really concerned about is STRIKES by public sector workers.
There can be little doubt that FDR would support collective bargaining for public sector workers today!
Fallacious appeals to authority are boring.
vulturesign 11 months ago
"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry."
--FDR
vulturesign 11 months ago
"Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government."
--FDR
vulturesign 11 months ago
Strange that those on right don't have a problem with government bargaining with the corporations who fund their campaigns and give them jobs when they leave public office. Union members are a minority in both the public and private sectors and they don't wield nearly as much power as the corporations whose lobbyists essentially write Republican legislation.
vulturesign 11 months ago
It's ok for corporations to dominate policy debates by buying every member of Congress. Unions didn't sink the stock market or create this financial catatrophe in the first place- asking them and the taxpayers to tighten our belts after a multi-Trillion dollar bailout for Wall Street is a slap in the face.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign Desire? Yeah! Right? No.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
@ AA, do you really think public workers should have no say in how their workplace operates?
Public sector collective bargaining has been widely recognized around the world and until the recent GOP/TP attacks in the vast majority of US states and it has actually worked quite well (with some room for improvement).
For more info google the EPRN White Paper "Getting it Right: Empirical Evidence and Policy Implications from Research on Public-Sector Unionism and Collective Bargaining."
vulturesign 11 months ago
The New York Times headline is very polite:
Christie’s Talk Is Blunt, but Not Always Straight.
Lies about unions. Lies about how working people live. Lies calculated to manipulate the public into supporting making the lives of working people even more difficult. Class warfare.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign: The only class warfare is the union lobby forcing politicians to give into their demands and which in turn forces politicians to use taxes to fund the union demands on the backs of taxpayers who are not part of any union or organized labor force. Those taxpayers are happy not to be part of any union or organized labor force. The non-unionized middle class is under attack by the unionized "middle" class.
divisioneight 11 months ago 7
@divisioneight The most grating (if not frustratingly insulting) aspect of your dilemma is that the same people who actively participate in that union racket you just described are the same people that commonly insist that we haven't really given enough yet - they seem to need just a little bit more every year.
Having to pay for this (dis)service is one thing, but to be continually raked over the coals of increasing costs for the whole shifty scheme may be a whole new tier of absurdity.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago 2
You can thank organized labor for the 40 hour week, vacation pay, holiday pay, Social Security, Medicare, safety laws, minimum wage, an end to child labor, etc. etc. etc.
I can understand your frustration with unions if you are one of the Top2% (or one of their paid mouthpieces).
vulturesign 11 months ago
What nonsense. Unionized workers are barely keeping their heads above water while the incomes for the Top 2% are going through the roof. The middle class is NOT under attack from organized labor. Where do you people get this nonsense from? THINK!
vulturesign 11 months ago
@divisioneight The non -union sector has been riding the coat tails of union labor since the beginning of organized labor. It was present 100 years ago and present now. When unions go so will better wages for working class Americans. The gap will widen between the haves and have- nots and class warfare will be entrenched in our society. Good or bad, who has taken it on the chin for the working class? The Dept. of Labor, state and local politiicans? Who? Unions! Not perfect but it's all we have.
PhillyBAC1 10 months ago
@divisioneight bullshit the reason you have the pay you have is because of unions
phildirt3 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the unions must work together to shut down the economy until rights are restored a simple example of 500 or more tractor trailers blocking highways surrounding political buildingd, garbage piling up no snow removal, but the unions must hold steadfast in denying all services until rights are restored,
jagg1951 11 months ago
the unions must work together to shut down the economy until rights are restored a simple example of 500 or more tractor trailers blocking highways surrounding political buildingd, garbage piling up no snow removal, but the unions must hold steadfast in denying all services until rights are restored,
jagg1951 11 months ago
@jagg1951 your a tool
sprinkler5802 11 months ago 4
@sprinkler5802 \
a good worker knows the importance of tools. used properly they can "get er done"
jagg1951 11 months ago
@jagg1951 Your solution to the financial issues is to hold the economy hostage? Like children throwing a fit, the unions and their collectivist supporters show their grace in negotiation and resourcefulness in a crisis.
The jaw-dropping sense of entitlement among the looters is staggering. Collectivists now claim their selfish plundering is a right? I had no idea people could be so solipsistic.
And if the kids don't get their way, guess what they'll do?
Shut down the economy!
Grow up.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago 3
@TheAmericanApologist
When the powers that be choose to circumvent the democratic process by doing an endrun around the rules then there is obviously no good faith in the bargaining process on their part and other means must be used to restore the democrtic bargaining process
jagg1951 11 months ago
A handful of Republicans in the senate held our nation hostage for years and made real reform impossible
What looting/plundering are you talking about? The 19 Trillion dollar bailout of the banks? The immense transfer of wealth upwards to the Top 2% that has occurred over the last few decades?
The GOP/TP majority in the House is now threatening to shut down our whole country if they don't get their way.
Very mature.
vulturesign 11 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
The real costs are the sectors who hide money trying to use the short falls to grab cheap properties and to nullify community contributions and benefits. Economic politics are used as legalism and rituals for concentration of power. Why can't govt create jobs with community infrastructures and community small businesses? Is it just another superstitious religious of a super power?
beancube2010 11 months ago
Don't always blame the short fall on the population. Evolve and make new tools and technologies for our economy, our communities, ourselves and our kids.
beancube2010 11 months ago
Where are the money? Everybody is spending for a long time but where are the money gone? Who hides the money? Money is our tool and technology for our economic activities. Who took our tools and technologies from us? If we can find out then we have to invent some new tools and technologies to replace those old tools and technologies. Where are the money? When can we make new replacement? It is Now!
beancube2010 11 months ago
Very impressive. Straight talking, no nonsense, to the point, manipulation free facts. I hope he musters the support push these reforms through.
justinm410 11 months ago 2
Fundamental human rights - of who? Human rights of union workers or the ones who have to pay the taxes that fund union worker's lives? Who funds the private sector's lives, private sector workers without pensions, with costly, basic health care with high deductibles? Where's the "union" that private sector workers belong to? Can I get twelve paid holidays off a year? Can I get a "Cadillac" insurance policy?
divisioneight 11 months ago 3
@divisioneight, everyone should have the right to join a union and bargain collectively! Freedom of association is a fundamental human right! Unions have fought hard to give ALL workers things like weekends, unemployment insurance and social security. You might be able cut a better deal for yourself if you ORGANIZE! Join or start a union. This is exactly what the Republicans who represent the top 2% don't want.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign I have nothing against folks organizing. But at whose expense do the results of this "organizing" come vulturesign? These benefits cost money. The money tree has stopped giving money. You cannot collect taxes from a foreclosed home or an unemployed worker. So if you want to keep your perks of being a union member, you must go somewhere else to get the money to pay for those perks. (i.e. - increased dues, paycheck with holdings, etc). Are you ready to pay more?
divisioneight 11 months ago
In the US, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers).
vulturesign 11 months ago
PLEASE run for President Mr. Christie!!!!!!!!!!
bobbyg8744 11 months ago 2
Social Security has taken in trillions more than it has or ever payed out but it's broke? It has been used to finance big Government.That's right it goes straight to the Federal Reserve who cash up off shore banks who are demanding more.The people agreed to pay it interest free! Give it away? Lets don't burden the wealthy. They might cut you off! Take every dime in earmarks you can steal and our liberty while you can. The last election was part 1 of a 2 part plan.You just don't get it! OK..
sparrow053 11 months ago
Social Security has taken in trillions more than it has or ever will pay out but it's broke? It has been used to finance big Government.That's right it goes straight to the Federal Reserve who cash up off shore banks who are demanding more.The people agreed to pay it interest free! Give it away? Lets don't burden the wealthy. They might cut you off! Take every dime in earmarks you can steal and our liberty while you can. The last election was part 1 of a 2 part plan.You just don't get it! OK..
sparrow053 11 months ago
Fundamental human rights, like freedom of association (and the right to bargain collectively), are NOT "legislatively created.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Workers fought hard, and paid dearly, to have their rights recognized and protected by legislation. Now politicians like Christie want to unilaterally take away what they struggled years to accomplish. Disgusting!
vulturesign 11 months ago
Only 5 states (not "PLENTY") don't have collective bargaining for educators...those states rank as follows, re: avg. SAT+ACT scores: South Carolina 50th, North Carolina 49th, Georgia 48th, Texas 47th, Virginia 44th. Wisconsin is 2nd...for now
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign
You really have your talking points down. Congrats.
klrdotorg 11 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
@klrdotorg, thanks for the compliment. These rants are actually my own thoughts (with one or two exceptions [e.g. cookie joke]) . You want to get into the details about something in particular? Look, I admit some public workers have it pretty good (e.g. cops in my hometown in the burbs make 100k+ and retire in 20 years basically chasing kids throwing snowballs). Obviously we should RENEGOTIATE these kinds of deals! Deficits are a problem but destroying unions is not the solution.
vulturesign 11 months ago
If I went to work in a factory the first thing I'd do is join a union.
~ Franklin D. Roosevelt
Sollijuno 1 year ago
@Sollijuno
Nobody is talking about factory unions - except people on your side. FDR strongly opposed Public Employee Unions.
klrdotorg 11 months ago 2
@klrdotorg Roosevelt opposed collective bargaining for the National Federation of Federal Employees. There is a difference between Federal Employees and Civil Service Employees. Civil Service employees have the right to collective bargaining. Please see the Civil Service Employee Association (CSEA) for more information as they are standing in solidarity with Wisconsin.
Sollijuno 11 months ago
@klrdotorg, FDR did not oppose public employee unions. He opposed strikes by federal public employee unions.
When Republicans who hate everything FDR ever did start quoting FDR in support of one of their middle-class destroying or union-bashing attacks, the public should assume they are lying.
vulturesign 11 months ago
He's a loyal pawn of the GOP and subscribes to Karl Rove strategies. GOP would like the taxpayers to fund all the Charter Schools they plan on building. This is why he's going after teachers. Karl Rove knows that Union dues all across America can influence the outcome of an election. Eliminate the unions and you get full control. Rove recommended Christie for U.S. Attorney.
Sollijuno 1 year ago
On February 3, 2011, Christie issued a Conditional Veto of Civil Service Reform A-3590 (collective bargaining on matters covered by civil service.)
Sollijuno 1 year ago
"All of these rights are legislatively created." Wrong. Unions have been around long before democracy.
glocksout 1 year ago
Christie is the best Governor in the U.S. - imo. It's easy to give in, pass the problem along - as most others have. It's takes guts to take on the powerful Public Employee Union - and tell them that things are going to change. Liberals hate him - because he's winning. This is not about unions ... it's about Public Employee Unions - who negotiate their contracts with the people they helped elect. It's rigged. And it's bankrupting states. Period.
klrdotorg 1 year ago 2
@klrdotorg, if you don't think there is adversarial relationship between management and workers in the public sector you've never worked in the public sector. I was a teacher at an inner-city publlic school and let me tell you the adminstration and city was NOT on our side. Working conditions were awful. The union was our only real ally. Workers need unions and collective bargaining to have a say in how their workplace operates. Check out Mayor Bloomberg's recent NYTs oped piece.
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign
First off, I have much respect for inner-city teachers. It's not an easy job.
Your experience may have been adversarial, but many regions aren't. The Public Employee Unions help Democrats get elected - more than any other interest group. If you don't think that creates a rigged bargaining situation, than you're not being honest. It's bankrupting my state, and many others.
Bloomberg is currently fighting the unions. He wants bad ones fired - the unions won't let him.
klrdotorg 11 months ago
This isn't just about public employees. It's about trying to destroy all unions and take away collective bargaining from all workers to make the rich richer and undermine support for the democrats. It's a longstanding Republican strategy. The budget nonsense is just pretect. The public knows it. Now that it's backfiring on them watch the GOP try to back peddle. If you are really worried about people negotiating with the people they helped elect look at the military contrators. And lobbying.
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign
This IS about Public Unions. NOT private unions. Nice talking points. There is no way that any republicans are going to "destroy all unions and take away collective bargaining from all workers ..." Can't be done. They couldn't do it - even if they were the 100% majority. That spin sells in the union halls, but most people aren't buying it - I know I'm not.
We're broke, worse than broke. You think budget cuts are bad now? Wait 'til interest rates go up.
klrdotorg 11 months ago 4
Don't kid yourself. This IS NOT just about Public Unions.
House Republicans just passed legislation cutting funding for (and attempted to totally defund) the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) an agency charged with conducting elections for labor union representation and with investigating and remedying unfair labor practices in the PRIVATE SECTOR.
OPEN YOUR EYES!
Just look at individual GOP/TP candidates and see what their position is on unions and collective bargaining.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign
My eyes are wide open. You're right that many Republicans and TP candidates don't like unions. Doesn't mean they can do anything to "bust" them. But I hope they bust the Public Unions. That would be a great day. If not, we'll continue to add debt.
klrdotorg 11 months ago
@klrdotorg, if you are really worried about our National Debt (as I am) look at our military spending. By some estimates our military-related expenditures EXCEED ONE TRILLION DOLLARS per year. We spend nearly as much as the rest of the world combined not to defend America but to enrich government contractors and protect the interests of multinations corporations and foreign powers.
Republicans haven't really been worried about the deficits since Reagan TRIPLED our National Debt.
vulturesign 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Asshole!!!!!! leave the unions alone
samkurz 1 year ago
I thought you liberal mush heads are supposed to be open minded and fact base thinkers? Youre hateful little people that need government to make things fair for you because your weak. Shut up and work like the rest of us and stop asking the tax payers to fund your liberal social justice agenda. What part of broke dont you understand? Were broke so spoiled unions need to suffer with the people paying for their benefits.
Shytebrick 1 year ago
@Shytebrick, see my comments below.
vulturesign 1 year ago
CHRISTIE FOR PRESIDENT 2012!!!!!!! This guy is the next Reagan!
Shytebrick 1 year ago 4
@Shytebrick, let's hope not. Reagan TRIPLED our National Debt!
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign Not true! When Reagan came into office the debt was 32.5 percent of GDP when he left it was 43 percent of GDP an increase of 11 % He proved trickle down works and the country was booming. Look at the debt after 2 Obama years! You want Reagan back huh? lol
Shytebrick 11 months ago
@Shytebrick, Under Reagan our debt went from about $700 billion to over $2 trillion (our GDP grew as we came out of recession despite Reagan). After Bush, our debt was over $4 trillion. Contrast Democrats and "old-style conservatives (Eisenhower and Nixon)" on one hand (decreasing debt), and "new-style Reagan Republicans" on the other (increasing debt). Obama was forced to increase our debt to clean up the mess long-standing "Republican" policies (e.g. blind deregulation) created.
vulturesign 11 months ago
That said, I'm not even sure whether Obama should really be considered a "Democrat." Apart from his bungled attempt at healthcare reform (single payer would have been much better AND clearly constitutional) he's been acting far more like a Republican (e.g. banker bailouts, war-mongering, etc.). Still he's better than what the GOP/TP is offering us.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign
Since when is socialized medicine constitutional, and since when are conservatives for bailouts? (a keynsian relic of the left; not the right).
Also, the top 1% carries more than 40% of the total tax burden of the country. Why do you so conveniently leave that out? If anything, those corporations who are makiing obscene amounts of money are doing so because of government intervention--yet you and lefties are in favor of more of it!
regelemihai 10 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 10 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@regelemihai, The Veterans Health Administration, the military health care system, and the Indian Health Service are all examples of "socialized medicine." Medicare and Medicaid are forms of publicly-funded health care, which fits the looser definition of socialized medicine. You think these are unconstitutional? Bush not Obama enacted TARP and signed the Bank Bailout into law. Get your facts straight. Google "Debt by U.S. presidential term" to see which party is more fiscally responsible.
vulturesign 10 months ago
@regelemihai The New Deal Supreme Court constitutionally sanctioned almost any federal legislation under the commerce clause (see wickard, heart of atlanta, etc.) It is no longer a federal government of enumerated powers. worded correctly,
finarrykahn13 10 months ago
@Shytebrick reagan ruined 2 unions and deregulated the banks you used to make 18% interest on a bank cd and 24% on a treasury note
spacepatrolman 11 months ago
@spacepatrolman Reagan led this country like a true American Leader with a greatness that will not be matched by the present moron. Reagan also proved that cutting taxes and allowing people to spend their own money instead the government doing it for them boosts the economy, grows the economy and increases revenues to the government!! It’s called Trickle Down or Reaganomics. What other President has an economic philosophy named after them? It’s the only PROVEN philosophy. Economic justice fails!
Shytebrick 11 months ago
@Shytebrick ralph nader said that reagan was the worst president since grant [ and he was an alcoholic ] he assumed a lot of credit for the soviet union falling apart when it was economic strife reagonomics was just a buzz word campaighn slogan that bush used like the great society of johnson /when clinton was president he put cops on the street crime went down the economy went up and he paid the deficit
spacepatrolman 11 months ago
@spacepatrolman Clinton had a Republican Congress that made him balance the budget! And who cares what Nader said lol Facts are facts when taxes are low and companies thrive, more people get hired and more people make money. You can try and dispute that some how but you cant with fact.
Shytebrick 10 months ago 2
@Shytebrick everyone cares what ralph nader said he saved millions of lives with seat beltsd airbags air pollultion laws water pollution laws the safe meat packing act the safe fish handling act ,the seamans bank was in business since 1896 but went out of business with bushinomics same with dry docvk bank and the bowery bank
spacepatrolman 10 months ago
@Shytebrick
"clinton had repubs in congress that made him balance the budget."
where were those repubs when bush was running trillion dolllar wars, medicare part D, raiding social security fund to pay for war, etc etc? i'm not a lefty either (I love ron paul) but i'm just saying.
TeslaDRay 9 months ago
@Shytebrick, Although trickle-down economics is often associated with Ronald Reagan, the theory actually dates back to the 1920s. Humorist Will Rogers coined the term, saying, "The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes it would trickle down to the needy." It was also called the Horse and Sparrow theory. Feed the horse enough oats and some will pass through.The Harding, Coolidge and Kennedy administrations all tried supply-side tax policies before Reagan did.
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign I’m not saying “Capitalism” didn’t exist before Reagan! I'm just saying that his opinion that "Government is the problem", low corporate tax creates jobs, puts more people to work creating more spending, stimulates the economy and raises revenues to the government trough taxes. He proved less government worked. Hell look at it now! It's opposite of what Reagan wanted and were sinking fast!
Shytebrick 10 months ago 2
@Shytebrick,
"Most Americans are worse off than they were ten years ago, a dozen years ago, so it's actually trickle up economics. All the gains in our economic growth have gone to those at the top."
— Joseph Stiglitz, winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics and author of Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy
vulturesign 11 months ago
@vulturesign If our system is such a disaster can you explain how the youngest country in the world not only formed using this system but grew faster and passed all other socialistic countries to become the ONLY super power in the world in such short time frame? Tell Stiglitz to bite me! Most Americans are worse off because the government is over taxing, over reaching and in interfering too much in our lives.
Shytebrick 10 months ago 2
The only good thing about Chris Christie is that he is NOT Jon Corzine.
Zentrails 1 year ago
How could anyone listen to a fat guy that's speaking about 'stability'?When he sits around the governors office, He sits 'AROUND' the governors office. I hate the way these bastards talk about fiscal responsibilitiy when their dumb ass party started 2 Wars that cost us 13 Billion dollars per month.Someone needs to stick an apple in this boars mouth & feed him to the poor. Oh, about raising taxes? This bastard wants to extend the retirement age.That right there is a huge tax inrease Twinkie man
rleary1 1 year ago
@rleary1 I can always rely on the left to use ad hominem, and leave the door wide open in the process. It's almost too easy!
The Republicrats didn't start two wars, grow up. You forget two salient facts: we were attacked on 9/11, and we are legally obligated to prevent or punish genocide. We went into wars because we had to. Also, your aggressive and hateful rhetoric is what contributes to political violence, I find it highly offensive.
Why is the left so unashamed about their open hatred?
TheAmericanApologist 1 year ago
@TheAmericanApologist
"I can always rely on the left to use ad hominem..."
Wow. And you STARTED with it. Good job, dummy.
bjornskivids 1 year ago
@TheAmericanApologist There's a problem. I'm a Conservative that grew to hate Repubs & what they've become.When I vote I vote for whomever seems the less dishonest. Dem party sucks too. We did bomb Afghanistan & I was all for it. As far as Iraq (& mushroom cloud/WMD campaign) it was complete BS & I was ashamed I'd voted for Bush.When I typed this I knew someone would call me Lib/Left etc. & that's absurd.3 people that I hate? Olbermann, Beck & Limbaugh. Well, we got rid of 1 of them at least!
rleary1 1 year ago
@TheAmericanApologist Why aren't we in any of the other 37 wars currently in the world? Isn't there genocide in Darfur, Somali etc.?? If we're so 'legally obligated' to prevent/punish genocide why aren't we over there? We might have been defending ourselves bombing Afghanistan but Iraq was a total lie. Even Pat Buchanon knows that & is a true non nation building Republican. I like Buchanon. Why is the Right so fast to claim me Left?
rleary1 1 year ago
What a gas bag, with his weight, he will not be around long anyway.
splibb 1 year ago
this fatass can just blow me
58tkdmike 1 year ago
Christie is wrong. He has it backwards. The right to organize comes from the electors, not the elected.
cardcreekdesign 1 year ago
wait wait.. 0% inflation? who the fuck is he kidding? with the price of gas through the roof.. with the price of food going up, with the price of housing going up... i think that is called, um, inflation :p just a wild shot in the dark here..
Neskiairti 1 year ago
Arrogance. having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. This man is arrogant. He exaggerates everything to fit his spectacularly insane view. He is basically saying their are no rights anybody has unless the elected officials say they do. That's their position. Control with no opposition. They want a monopoly of of the legal, financial, and military systems. They are fermenting war at all times. As the sand of our treasure is piles high. We allow it.
atomic57 1 year ago
He's just another Old School FatCat Plutocrat. Every last one of these rich white men hates working people and won't be happy until they rob us of our Social Security money and they can finally return this nation to the days of the Robber Barons at the turn of the last century. You know, those "good old days." A time when people of the working classes finally outlived their usefulness to the social elites and would simply drop dead in the street when they became sick, penniless wretches.
ladyreverb 1 year ago
Freedom of association and collective bargaining (for all workers) are FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHTS!!!
Article 23 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights identifies the ability to organize trade unions as a fundamental human right.
Prohibiting public workers from bargaining collectively violates the ILO's core labor standards.
The US is out of step with the rest of the civilzed world when it comes to collective bargaining rights.
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign The ability to use money taken from your neighbors to fund overly generous benefits while making political contributions to keep the gravy pouring is a human right?
Just because a bunch of people are doing something doesn't mean America ought to. Arguments from popularity are boring and unconvincing, it's a bit like being told that your personal views are not in-line with opinion polls - who cares? The US is the economic engine of the world, why take advice from lesser nations?
TheAmericanApologist 1 year ago
Public employees, such as teachers, have traded higher wages for better benefits. Studies controlling for education, skill levels etc. show that public workers earn less in total compensation (including benefits) than comparable private sector employees. Now you want to RENEGE? What about the sanctity of contract? I guess you don't think waterboarding is torture either?
vulturesign 1 year ago
Although the US might still havce a relatively high GDP per worker this is largely because US workers work far longer than their counterparts in other developed countries. Unfortunately far too much of the wealth generated goes not to the workers but those at the very top. The Top 1% in US own something like 40% of all the wealth, a level of inequality not seen since before the Great Depression and one of the very highest in the world. The US is in steep economic and moral decline.
vulturesign 1 year ago
You want to see obscene wages? Look no further than Wall Street and the CEOs of big US corporations who "earn" SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES what their lowest paid employees make (and far more than their counterparts in Europe and Asia for doing exactly the same job).
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign So?
I should perhaps preface this by saying that so long as those bonuses are paid without the use of coercion (meaning unions, bailouts, or tax-funded support of any variety) this is simply not a matter for our concern. Some people (hate to say it) are worth more than others from the standpoint of productive output.
Do you suppose that society should be in the business of telling it's citizens what they're allowed to earn for themselves, by the work they perform?
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
Comment removed
irdaKadri 11 months ago
Unfortunately executive compensation has nothing to do with productive output. In “Pay Without Performance: The Unfulfilled Promise of Executive Compensation” Bebchuk and Fried show that corporate governance in America is best described as a “managerial power” model in which C.E.O.’s have sufficient power over their boards to dictate their own compensation at the expense of shareholders (and the general public). Obviously, shareholders should have a greater say in executive compensation.
vulturesign 11 months ago
Comment removed
vulturesign 11 months ago
This joke sums it up pretty well:
A public union employee, a Tea Party activist, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it.
The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the Tea Partier and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie.'"
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign
Watching a Chris Christie interview made both you and "1911arthur" (see his post below) think of the same joke. Wow, what a coincidence.
klrdotorg 1 year ago
"Why take advice from lesser nations?" Because they are outperforming us in a variety of important ways.
The WHO ranked the US 47th in terms of health care just above Slovemia but below Costa Rica.
The OECD ranked the United States 14th out of 34 member countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.
Although the US usually ranks within the top 20 in standard of living, there is a huge and growing gap between the Top 2% and the rest of us.
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign Those numbers should be treated skeptically. Just to give one example of why, America is somehow docked points for NOT having socialized medicine and other left-wing favorites. Basically, one has to challenge to premises under which the numbers were arrived at. Lucky for us America is known to be the critical hub of international medical technology and development and pushes the bleeding edge of break-through treatments before many other countries do.
Liberal agenda = boring.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
Comment removed
irdaKadri 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Unfortunately, despite our growing reliance on expensive "bleeding edge" medical technology and procedures the US has been dropping in relative life expectancy compared to the rest of the world.
Currently we rank 49th for male life expectancy and 46th for female. This is pathetic.
We spend more and get less for our healthcare dollars than any other 1st world country.
Libertarian fantasies=delusional+dangerous
vulturesign 11 months ago
The US has one of the widest rich-poor gaps of any developed nation today, and that gap continues to grow. This could undermine and destabilize the country's economy and standard of living. As Alan Greenspan has observed, "The income gap between the rich and the rest of the US population has become so wide, and is growing so fast, that it might eventually threaten the stability of democratic capitalism itself".
Unions are not the problem, they are part of the solution.
vulturesign 1 year ago
@vulturesign You're putting your creaky cart before your wheezing horse. One of the reasons we see that wealth disparity is due to unions redistributing wealth from the workers to the organizers and politicians who keep the gravy train rolling. To be honest, I'm sick of seeing the Gov involved in the economy at all, given all the problems (looting of the public purse in the case of unions, and bailouts in the case of big business) it creates. Can we just earn a living without Gov?
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
Comment removed
irdaKadri 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is just plain delusional. As union membership has dropped in the US we have seen a growing concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. In contrast countries with strong unions and collective bargaining have much greater equality.
So you don't want the government involved in the economy at all? OK how about we get rid of corporations along with trademark and copyright protections? These are products of government intervention. There is no such thing as a "Free Market."
vulturesign 11 months ago
Merit Pay failed in the 70s and it fail again.
DarthKap 1 year ago
A union employee, a tea party activist, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the tea partier and says, 'Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie."
1911arthur 1 year ago
This guy is a fat fuck. I hate living in NJ because of him.
TreyParkersBitch 1 year ago
"These laws .... didn't come down from a mountain on tablets" - wow. Guess what else didn't come down from a mountain on tablets - The United States Constitution, you ignorant piece of shit.
I believe in, and practice freedom of speech. You can take away that right from paper from me, but goddammit I will still speak up!
DanielH3342 1 year ago
The right to organize should be a basic human right and certainly an American Right in a country that prides itself of freedom. To deny people the right to organize is to be a dictator and is oppressive. Christie is an arrogant hot shot that will over reach. He has already lied to his citizens by taking steps he promised not to in the campaign. He has exposed his lack of character.
afblac 1 year ago
@afblac No one possess a right to loot and redistribute other people's property. If one assumes that they have a right to their neighbor's property, that person is exactly the type our founders warned us about.
On the subject of oppressiveness, are we free to NOT support your ideas? Or are they a function of coercion? ;)
You make a salient point though: the alarming amount of authority and entitlement expressed by pro-union types makes freedom-minded citizens raise an eyebrow in concern.
TheAmericanApologist 11 months ago
Freedom of association is an important individual right to come together with other individuals and collectively express, promote, pursue and defend common interests (and it includes the right to form unions and bargain collectively). The US Supreme Court held in NAACP v. Alabama that freedom of association is an essential part of the Freedom of Speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others.
vulturesign 11 months ago