Changes in Book of Mormon? Big deal. Today's headline says "Bible scholars are about half way through a 20-year project to codify thousands of changes that worked their way into the New Testament as it was translated over time. "
People the information in this video is real and from good sources. Don't listen to the LDS spin doctors or spambots. If you want to research Mormonism on your own, don't even bother to listen to me, use their information. The largest source of Anti-Mormon information is from the LDS church; their prophets, their false prophecies, their changes in doctrines, their outlandish doctrines, and the list goes on. Don't listen to just what another mormon tells you. Research on your own. Find Truth
@VictorLepanto maybe you should consult neutral sources, rather then anti-mormon sources. Porter Rockwell was a bodyguard, not an assassin. and if you aren't aware of any attempts on smith's life, you really aren't looking hard enough. First day he got the plates 3 armed men tried to kill him. he was constantly tarred and featherred, driven out of towns by mobs training to kill him. (well not driven, but I will get to that later) now for the all the beer talk (continued)
come on don t drink the cool aid. the only people that argue about the credibility of the book of mormon is a mormon. The book of mormon was written by a man who was involved in the occult and for me the book is only at best religious fiction.
@BaurakAle7 I didn't say all of 2 nephi was in isaiah. but about half of it is. however, does 2 nephi 5:15 talk about chariots? or bronze armor? or horses?
well excuse me, its not my religion that claims that the book of mormon is comp. to the bible, its not my religion that is very racist to the core, its not my religion that claims to be the most correct book, its not my religion that claims that the Indians are Jews, there were no Nephites no golden plates, so if there were no golden plates, then Jesus did not come to the Americas and if Jesus did not come to the Americas then the bom is a fraud
The "Nephites" are supposed to have kept domesticated horses in the thousands & used chariots & bronze armor on battle. There should be examples of these things in abundance if it is true. It is not true. There are no domesticated horses in America b/f Columbus. No chariots, no carts w/ wheel even. No bronze armor. BoM is a lie from beginning to end. Smith was fraud, probably mentally unstable & most likely was more like a Jeffs or a Koresh or Jim Jones.
@VictorLepanto actually the nephites never used any of that stuff. you would know that if you ever actually read the book of mormon. the 2 nephi references to bronze armor, chariots, forged swords, etc. were all quotes from isaiah. half of 2 nephi is quotes from isaiah. so not only have you not read the book of mormon, but I guess you haven't read isaiah either.
@kradrol: I think you might mean plagiarisms from Isaiah. Are you honestly going to claim that the BoM doesn't represent horses as being present in America in the imaginary pre-columbian civilisation of the Nephites? That people ride on horses, in chariots pulled by horses, or that people use metal armor & coins in the New World? I think you are a recent convert.
I do have to say though, it is nice to see you are finally taking my advice and doing some research. sadly, your research seems to show that my claim was right this whole time.
the bible is the only source that has been proven correct , and it speeks for itself. Joe absolutely is a joke, a fraud and a sharlaton and people like you need to discover who is actually telling the lies. mormons are tunnel visioned they do not see what is the truth. The only comments I see and read are uneducated rhetoric
@MrBigbear6718 excuse me? you say the bible has been proven correct? I would like to direct you to any number of "is the bible accurate?" videos, article, or tv documentarys. and they call me indoctarnated. I never claimed the book of mormon is proven accurate, I never claimed the book of abraham was proven accurate. I am here to defend these books scientifical. if you want to get back to that then I will continued, but drop the apologetics right here and right now.
@kradrol: Whether or not the Bible is accurate as it has been handed down, it certainly not a fraud. It is a Jewish book handed down for many generations. Archeological evidence confirms the existance of a Jewish people in the Holy Lan for 1,000s of years. Even if the Bible has been altered, IT IS NOT A FRAUD!
@VictorLepanto I hate to tell you this, but there is archeological evidence to support the book of mormon too. please look up the city of nahom. (recently descoveried on the indian pennisola.)
@VictorLepanto actually they did find horse skeletons. as for bronze artifacts and chariots I assume you are refering to the referrences in 2 nephi, where nephi is quote isaiah. if you aren't then great, but I am unformilliar with any other reference to chariots or forged steel outside of 2 nephi. if you want to "teach me about my religion" then tell me where you are getting the references?
@kradrol: No one denies that wild horses were once in American b/f Columbus. It is also commonly known they all went extinct about the humans 1st appear in the Americas. The modern domestic horses were taken form the wild source known as Pilzudski's horse, native to the steppes of modern Russia. This happened in the bronze age, long after the native Americans (who are in no way what-so-ever related to the Jews) were isolated in their stone age culture. I also mentioned chariots, etc.
youtube will not allow me to post a link in the comment section. (not sure why) but any interested parties can message me for the link to the article referenced below.
of course the mormon will not let down his or her guard, and will not look at the proven items that have been dis-proven.
when you research the Bible you can get codes from it, the book of mormon well, I don t think there is a message to it, because ancient reformed Egyptian does not exist.
@MrBigbear6718 the bible code can also be found in moby dick, war and peace, lord of the rings, even harry potter. pretty much any book over 100 pages, including the book of mormon, contains the "bible code" it's becuase the bible code is total crap. if you took the time to learn the laws of probability you would know that already.
the author needs to do some more research. I can't speak for all 3,000 (or 4,000 depending on who you talk to) so called corrections, but the bom of written using hebrew culture and symbolism. and in hebrew symbols guess what the color white is a symbol of? go ahead guess. did you guess purity? white and pure are the same word, it wasn't speaking of race.
@kradrol BOM wasn't translated from Hebrew to English. Joseph Smith used the occult and the power of a seer stone in his hat to translate what each Egyptian symbol he read to Hyrum Smith his brother. Joseph Smith claimed he translated from Reformed Egyptian, even though no one has ever heard of it. Joseph Smith proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt with his translation of regular Egyptian with the Book of Abraham, that he has absolutely no clue of what he is doing or talking about.
@moronigoldenplates have you ever wonderred what reformed egyptian is? it is egyptian written in a hebrew style. we know this through modern day revelation. that means they used hebrew symbols and peotry in the book of mormon. so my comment stands.
@kradrol: & all I'd ask of you is that you offer the names of all the independent Hebrew & Egyptological scholars who support the LDS position on this matter. How many Hebrew linguists were consulted for this report? How many Egyptologists? Please specify the parts of the "Book of Abraham" which demonstrate its "Hebrew style." Where do I find these stylings in facsimiles of the scroll?
@VictorLepanto let me count the way in which your comment fails. first, the book of abraham is written in regular egyptain, not reformed. (book of abraham is not part of the book of mormon) second, how would egyptologists or hebrew scholars now of a langague spoken in LATIN AMERICA? third, joseph smiths translation of egytian characters was confirmed to be accurate by an egyptoligist of that time. it was only have he found out what joseph smith was working on that he retracted his statement.
@kradrol: Wow! My comments must have really disturbed you to stir up all this insane bluster. It is Smith himself who invented the term "Reformed Egyptian," if you don't like it, or if you think he was mistaken in saying the BoA was written in RE then you need to take it up w/ him. Who says it is in "Regular Egyptian?" What is that, when was it "regular." You realized various forms of Egyptian became common over the centuries? Name any Egyptologist or Hebraist who backs up Smith.
@VictorLepanto the book of abraham wasn't written in reform egytian, the book of mormon was. the book of abraham is not a part of the book of mormon, it is a seperate source. never was i stated that the book of abraham was written in reformed egytian. (do some research, you troll)
@kradrol Joseph Smith failed his test with as a true prophet of God when his prophecies failed to come to pass, and by his evidence of the botched Book of Abraham translation. Joseph Smith was a smooth talker and back in his day when he purchased the Egyptian Papyri for the Book of Breathings (B of Abraham) no one in the church back then could prove him wrong. Just like Smith and Youngs other claims of life on the Moon or Sun. Mormonism is a made in America Religion. Only Jesus can save u!
@moronigoldenplates so the book of breathing is the same as the book of abraham? funny how none of the facsimillies in the book of abraham appear in the book of breathing. but wait, I thought it was the book of the dead? now anit-mormons can't even get their own story straight.
@kradrol: What is the Hebrew word for white, what is the Hebrew word for pure? Are they the same word? Did the "original" golden plates use the one word or the other? Since no one but Smith is supposed to have been able to translate these plates, how can anyone but him alter the translation. Besides, the BoM was written in "Reformed Egyptian." How can you surmise from Hebrew usage what pertains to this fantasy language. Show me a copy of a Reformed Egyptian book & then I'll believe you.
@VictorLepanto it wasn't translated from hebrew, so neither hewbrew word appearred. it was, whoever, written in a hebrew writting style. (see my comments about reformed egyptain below) so I have just completely destroyed your whole argument.
@kradrol: Could you please be so good as to direct me to one known Egyptologist who can explain to me when "Reformed Egyptian" was spoken? "Reformed," so am I take it that this a form of Egyptian spoken by Calvinist Egyptians? Much as Orthodox Egyptians use Coptic in their services. Under which dynasty did R.E. arise? How do you know it was in a Hebrew style, since no one ever saw the original plates. By no one I mean Joe Smith also, except in his imagination.
@VictorLepanto actually 13 seperate people show the plates, that's not including joseph smith. (try doing some research sometime) next, reformed egytian was the langauge of nephi, who lived in jeruselem, and later latin america. therefor reformed egytian isn't going to show up in any of the egytian dynasties. and as I have stated before, church leaders have told us all what reformed egyptian is. GO LOOK IT UP.
@kradrol: So, it is not actually Egyptian, it is just called Egyptian? I am perfectly familiar w/ how J.S. claimed to see these imaginary plates, & how he had his friends back up his lie. This, OBVIOUSLY, proves nothing. No independent person was ever allowed to see these imaginary things. No one but Smith ever offered a "translation" of them. The Jews didn't speak any form of Egyptian, they spoke Hebrew. Why would they right their records in foreign tongue?
@VictorLepanto so the jews, who were enslaved by the egyptians for hunderreds of years, didn't speak egyptian? that must have made communicating with the slaves hard. why did the egyptians just teach them egyptian instead of needing to learn hebrew? oh that right, THEY DID. once again, go do some research. you are starting to look very very stupid.
@kradrol: Wow, this is such a strange "argument." It is called the Book of Abraham b/c Smith was making pretend that Abraham wrote it. You have read your Bible enough to know that Abraham predates the Egyptian captivity? Even if Israelites learned Egyptian, Hebrew is still their native & primary tongue. King David captured Jerusalem centuries after the time of the captivity. No one would have spoken much in Egyptian when the Jews controlled Jerusalem. & there's no "Reformed Egyptian!"
@VictorLepanto once again, you stupid troll, the book of abraham WASN'T part of the book of mormon. it is a seperate source. therefor, the book of abraham WASN'T written in the reformed egyptian of the book of mormon. before trying to discredit something, you might want to learn what the hell you are talkinabout first.
@kradrol: Actually, it is the BoA that Smith claimed written in his imaginary language of RE. I am actually not certain what if any language Smith claimed for his imaginary original BoM. Maybe he claimed it was Hebrew, maybe he eventually claimed it was also in RE. It doesn't matter, both books are frauds. He either totally invented them from his imagination or he cobbled together various plagarized sources to "make" his books. No Israelites came to America & no angels spoke to Smith.
@VictorLepanto I usually reserve that statement for the atheists I talk to, but it applies here too. If you don't want to do research then you have no place in the conversation. you can even check anti-mormon sites, they all say the book of mormon was written in reformed egyptian, they make no such claim about the book of abraham. you will be hardpressed to find anyone, mormon or otherwise, that will make that claim. now for the last time GO RESEACH. until then I am done with you.
@kradrol: You go research, you are making a fool of yourself. You are the one who is ignorant of the inventions of your own religion. I believe the notion of "Reformed Egyptian was invented when Smith acquired the Egyptian scroll & used it as prop to impress his ignorant dupes. I doubt if he even knew there was such a thing as Hebrew when he fabricated the BoM. I know he studied Hebrew for a few months when he lived in Ohio, years after "translating" the BoM. Re: the BoM, How do I reearch them?
@VictorLepanto ok. now it's time to own you using your own comments. first quote "Besides, the BoM was written in "Reformed Egyptian."" that is from your first response. next we have "Actually, it is the BoA that Smith claimed written in his imaginary language of RE. I am actually not certain what if any language Smith claimed for his imaginary original BoM." from your response right before this one. (continued)
@kradrol: I will admit that I assume the BoM was also alleged to have been written in RE, as Smith claimed the BoA was written in RE. I never claimed the BoA was part of the BoM, it is placed in Doctrine & Covenants if I remember correctly. I don't really care. There is no such thing as RE. It is a lie, a demonstrable lie. The original scroll from the Smith estate has been discovered. Father Abraham did not write it. The simple fact is that both the BoM & BoA are inventions of Smith.
@VictorLepanto the book of abraham is part of the pearl of great price. (showing that you are reling only on memory, or even second hand accounts) and I have seen the so called "original scrolls" that the facsillimes came from. guess what, they don't match the ones in abraham. some of the are very simillar (one being almost exact) but none of the writting is the same, just afew of the pictures are simillar. farthermore, egytalogosist cant' agree on certain aspects of the facsillies.
@VictorLepanto so, ivtorlepanto, not only do you know nothing about what the church believes or teaches, you can't even make up YOUR OWN mind about what YOU believe. you are changing your story in same vain attempt to sound educated, rather then admitting that you made a mistake. the book of abraham was written in egytian, the book of mormon was reformed egyptian, which was egyptain characters written in a hewbrew style. do your research, son.
@kradrol: I've never claimed to be particularly educated, I will state that it is now obvious that I know more about your church then you do. What is a silly phrase like "a Hebrew style" supposed to mean anyway? It is into vacuity & subjectivity that the LDS organisation hides. A more obvious fraud then Smith is hardly imaginable. The idea of RE was invented when Smith bought a Egyptian scroll he used as a prop for his dupes. You should look up the case of the Tinderhook plates.
@VictorLepanto "I've never claimed to be particularly educated" well that much is self evident from your lack of historical knowledge, and out-right refusal to do any research on this subject. (which would imply a lack of ability or understanding to proform research) next; "a hebrew style" should be fairly self explanitory. it was written using hebrew sentece structure, phrasing, symoblism, etc. even a basic linguist knows a cultural written styles are. (continued)
@kradrol: A group of hoaxers, or rather counter hoaxers, had a set of plates they had made themselves at their own expense brought to Smith. They had inscribed some Chinese writing, they took randomly from a book, on these plates. They asked Smith if he could "interpret" these "ancient artifacts they found" as he had the other earlier ones. He did, they then busted him by showing they had made the artifacts themselves. Smith was exposed in the very of lying. HE WAS A FRAUD.
@VictorLepanto I did some research on the kinderhook plates. (not tinderhook, but I will chalk that up to a typo) and it turns out joseph smith never attempted to translate them. the hoaxer have several discrepentcies in their accounts, and waiting until after joseph was dead to procliam that "they fooled him" there is a wonderful article about all the innaccuracies of the anti-mormon accounts on wikipedia. here is a link. (link to follow)
@kradrol: DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE ON THE KINDERHOOK PLATES? I can't believe you looked at the same article on Wiki that I did. They have two contemporary quotes of people quoting Smith "interpreting" the plates. One is Smith's own private secretary. One is woman who visited Nauvoo @ the time. They also have quotes from Mormon sources who actually took the plates as authentic. The LDS Church didn't disassociate from then until 1981! They bragged about them in their own publications!
@VictorLepanto you are referring to the now falsified account from william clayton right? read the article "forgeries related to mormonism" it goes into great detail all the discrepencies in clayton's account, leading to a pretty strong opionion that it was written by someone with no first hand knowledge of the incedent. (and certainly not clayton himself)
@VictorLepanto as for the "They bragged about them in their own publications!" I assume you mean the times and seasons; formerally editted by joseph smith. smith resigned as editor of the times and seasons in nov 1842. they didn't written about the plates into april 1843. so it wasn't a church publication then. and yes, maybe member of the church did consider them authentic, but none of them were church leaders.
@VictorLepanto so it would seem not only do you know research the church, you don't even research your own claims. the hinderhook plates were a complete failure (and as I assumed before hand, had nothing to do with the church) you should try reading an article and not just listening to what your anti-mormon paster tells you.
@kradrol: Of course you assumed. That is what the LDS Church teaches you to do w/ it "burning in the bossom" principle. Abandon the notion of rational, objective, varifiable truth for allowing your feelings about a matter to dictate whether you believe it true or not. As for your Wiki article, not doubt it was written by a person like yourself. Go find the actual report of the hoaxers themselves. Why not just check out the "Book of Abraham" scroll. It proves Smith lied.
@VictorLepanto the article included the report from the hoaxers, as well as everything they got wrong. they are admitted hoaxer, and you think they wouldn't lie about fooling the prophet? this is why you must read both sides of any story. the simply fact remains, they failed. joseph's secretary even states that he got out a hebrew dictionary to try to translate them by hand, not by the power of god. the church never offerred an account of joseph's translation, only the hoaxers did. (continued)
@VictorLepanto I said I assumed it had nothing to do with the church, but held off on placing final judgement until after I do research. (I just happened to be right in my inital assessment) now to claim, that that account, that I base what is true and false and my 'feelings' is a gross over-step. this whole it has been ME telling YOU to do research, and find the truth for yourself. If either of use are 'guided by of feelings' then it's you.
@kradrol: & how am I supposed to "research" Smith's golden plates. When angels convenient wisk the relevant evidence back off to Heaven for the prophet. varifying his veracity become difficult. As for the Kinderhook Plates: Smith's own secretary, William Clayton, quotes him as saying the plates were made by a descendent of Pharaoh. The Mormons used to brag about these plates b/f they were proven to be false. Then they were dropped down the Orwellian memory hole
@VictorLepanto I have already addressed the article with all the errors in clayton report. I have no reason to believe that the author of that so called report was william clayton. I have already addressed the times and seasons, and how it wasn't a church publication after nov 1842. if you referring to another publication then name it, so I can look into your claims.
@kradrol: An off hand dismissal is "addressing" an issue. Your own Mark Peterson was bragging about them as late as 1979. I have to ask you something, by "Wiki" do you mean the LDS's own wiki? Does the idea of independent, varifiable evidence mean anything to you? If Clayton didn't write those remarks in the history then who did? It seems that the LDS celebrated these artifacts until they were scientifically & conclusively demonstrated to be a fraud.
@VictorLepanto I will address your concerns about the kinderhook plates AFTER we clear up the issue of reformed egyptian. it is a simply question, where did it come from and which books were written in it? I want your opion on the subject. then we can move on to the kinderhook plates if you still feel like getting owned.
@kradrol: Jeezie petes! How can I be any clearer? No book has ever been written in RE. There is no such thing as RE. No one has ever seen RE, Smith just made up the term to fool his dupes b/c the Mormons were in a bad state in Ohio @ the time as his ponzi scheme bank fraud was in trouble. He needed a big story to keep the suckers attached to his scam. Does that clarify things for you?
@kradrol: Once again, w/ feeling. There is no such thing as RE. No one has ever written any kind of a book in RE. No one ever will, it doesn't exist. No one will ever translate anything from RE either, it is impossible. The actuall Wikipedia does have a good article on RE. You should go look it up. It does say that the BoM references RE in Mormon 9:32. So now I'm teaching your religion to you. Egyptian has nothing to do w/ Hebrew, it is certainly not more compact then Hebrew, as the BoM claims.
@VictorLepanto I have claimed the book of mormon to be written in reformed egytian the whole time. how is you showing me a reference to that "teaching your religion to you" all you just did was support MY CLAIMS (I should say thank you)
@kradrol: I asked you for any source for an earlier date for the term. You couldn't provide it. Thus it is demonstrated you didn't know. I really don't CARE when Smith invented this fraud. It is a lie no matter when it began. I don't blame you for not reading the BoM, it is nearly unreadable. A more obvious fabrication by a near illiterate is hard to imagine.
@VictorLepanto as I started before, I can not post links in the comment section. I did, however, tell you to read joseph smith history, watch any number of youtube videos, or even look it up on wikipedia. how is that not providing a soure?
@kradrol: It is the title of Fawn Brodie's biography of the "prophet." It has many interesting details. Such as Smith getting drunk w/ his friends in the Carthage jail. Smith was probably getting ready to make a plea bargain. Much like Warren Jeffs, when they finally managed to get him in jail.
@VictorLepanto so you are using the title of a biography, which clearly contains lies, ask a direct quote from joseph smith? learn your history. most "biographies" about joseph smith, even church sentioned, contain quotes from other people; which had been reworked and rewritten into "his own words" that goes for most biographies of that time period as well.
@kradrol: If it contains lies, please specify, list just five lies in it so we can discuss them meaningfully. I have picked it up in the book store & poked around in it. I has many interesting passages, such as her account of Smith getting drunk w/ his campanions in the Carthage jail. She makes him out to be getting ready to cop a plea, like Warren Jeffs. Just a day ago you didn't even know the book existed, now you're an expert on the author, slandering her w/ names like "liar." Typical.
@VictorLepanto if she makes him out to be copping a plea bargain, and getting drunk with his friends, then it doesn't hold up to comtempary review. no other biography of the prophets life ever protray him drinking, and their is not count in the us that would have offerred him a plea, considerring their entire goal of imprisoning him was to kill him. (after having failed to kill him several times before)
@kradrol: It actually appears Smith ran a bar out of his home in Nauvoo. Church functions in Nauvoo were often quite drunken affairs. Even Brigham Young in Utah brewed beer & sold a great quantity of it. You really need to consult non-mormon souces. I am aware of a number of occasions in Smith's life where he made death treats against others & it appears his henchman Porter might have assassinated some of o Smith's enemies. I am no aware of any other attempts on Smith's life.
@VictorLepanto well it is true that joseph smith ran a socal club (simillar to a bar, but not quite the same) out of his home for church gatherring, he himself did not partake of an alcahol. even as a child he didn't let them give him whiskey to dull the pain during leg surgery. so any source saying smith "got drunk with his friends" is wrong. and most likely is anti-mormon propaganda. as for brigham young, there is no public record of him ever brewing beer. (continued)
@VictorLepanto now for the so called death threats against his enemy. joseph smith commanded the largest millitary brigade of that time, the mormon millita. If he wanted the angry mobs silenced he could have had them slaughterred with one word. He was not driven out of towns, he choose to leave. why? becuase joseph smith wasn't violent. especially not to the capsasity anti-mormons like to make him out to be. try researching from both sides of the fence next time.
@kradrol JS wasn't violent...study up on the Mormon Wars, and how Smith got the church kicked out of Missouri, Govenor Boggs had enough of the Mormons and even put a bounty on them. Mormonism is a made in America Religion, Smith was into the occult and used lies and trickery to deceive people. On that part of the spectrum he was very intelligent when it came to deception. But when Smith is put to the test as a prophet of God, he fails again and again. LDS inc allowed JS to be killed.
@VictorLepanto I have never heard of the tinderhook plates. (or I might just know them under a different name) which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with the LDS church. are you now just grasping at straws? but unlike you, I am willing to research your claim, and examine it before making up unfactial bs to support my own claims. (expect my full report of this case in the next few days, if not sooner)
@VictorLepanto "I believe the notion of "Reformed Egyptian was invented when Smith acquired the Egyptian scroll & used it as prop to impress his ignorant dupes." the problem is you are the only one that believes that. the rest of us actually study, and know that "reformed egyptain" was first brought up long before the establishment of the church in 1830, which would put it before the church aquired the egyptian papyrius scroll in 1835, wouldnt it?
@kradrol: You obviously have no idea of the history of Smith's talk of his mythical RE. He invented this notion for his BoA hoax. We have the original scroll Smith used to perpetrate this fraud. Real Egyptologists know what is on this scroll, Abraham had NOTHING to do w/ it. If Smith was using the fraud of RE b/f the scroll, please specify where & how he used this lie. Regardless of when he invented the RE lie, RE is still a lie.
@VictorLepanto "If Smith was using the fraud of RE b/f the scroll, please specify where & how he used this lie." I did. several time in fact. the book of mormon was written in reformed egytian. the book of mormon, which was what was written in reformed egytian, was given to joseph smith in 1821. the egytian scrolls containing the book of abraham, which were not written in reformed egytian, but rather in standard egytian, were not purchased until 1835.
@kradrol: If Smith claimed the BoM was in RE, when did he do so & where? I don't believe you as you obviously don't know what you're talking about but I need OBJECTIVE VARIFIABLE INFORMATION. Name one source where Smith is shown to use the term RE. You don't know what your talking about. There was no original source for the BoM, there is no RE & the BoA is an ordinary funeral scroll & the LDS Church itself confirms the authenticity of the scroll which was in Emma Smith's estate.
@VictorLepanto go read joseph smith history. in there he says the plates were written in reformed egyptian. watch any number of youtube videos on the subject of the book of mormon, 9 out of 10 say the same thing. I would post you a link to various articles, but as I stated before youtube is not allowing me to do that. I"m sure you can even find something about reformed egyptian on wikipedia or google.
@kradrol I would like to put an end to this whole 'reformed egytian' argument once and for all, as you can not make up your mind what you believe about it. one two occasions you have said the book of mormon was written in reformed egytian, and on two seperate occasions you have said that it was the book of abraham which was written in reformed egytian, and the book of mormon had nothing to do with it. so which is it. where did it come from and which book are written in it?
@kradrol: I am beginning to doubt that English is your 1st language. I assumed the BoM was ascribed to RE b/c Smith invented that term when he "translated" BoA. I have never said the Smith used term b/f the BoA fraud was initiated. Whether he pretended that the BoM was in RE or Hebrew is of no account to me. There were no gold plates, no BoA, & no RE. Just produce one example of Smith talking about RE b/f the BoA hoax & I'll believe he was already using that fraud b/f the BoA fraud.
@VictorLepanto thank you for showing me that you know NOTHING about the timeline of the church. if you claim that smith invented reformed egyptian only after purchasing the abraham scrolls, then the book of mormon can't be in reformed egytian. the book of fully written and published 5 years before the scrolls were purchased. you, my friend, just LOST. now we can move on the kinderhook plates.
@kradrol: I never said anything about anyone buying anything. Whenever Smith bought these things is immaterial to me. The fact is that he saw them & copied them, he hardly needed own them to do that. A man was making a living off them at the time, so maybe Smith couldn't buy them until later. I am actually from Ohio, so I am somewhat familiar w/ his history here. He left the state ahead of the sheriff's posse, as he did throughout his life. A bank fraud, a ponzi scheme like Madoff's
@ Kradol: I would have you answer a question of mine. As no one is supposed to have ever seen these "golden plates" since the time of Smith. How can anyone ever dare to alter the BoM account in any way what-so-ever? No one w/o access to the original sources can know what their accurate contents are. So, how does the LDS Church dare to alter the Prophets original words? How is this not corrupting the supposedly true Prophets words?
@VictorLepanto I can answer your question simply, none of changes made the book for anything significant. any error in publishing, are grammitical change, or simply a rephrasing of symbols. people claim there are over 3,000 corrections (some say 4,000) so why haven't anyone published I list of all 3,000? I can only find about 200, and they are all minor changes.
@kradrol: You will always minimize the gravity of the changes, I am sure. How is "white & delightsome" changing to "pure & delightsome" a small, merely grammatical change? It is clearly a change of meaning. The original & obvious racial signicance was deliberately changed to make the BoM more marketable in our present age. The disgusting racist character of the original is repugnant, this doesn't justify LYING about what it really said.
@VictorLepanto I addressed that at the very begining of this debate. white and pure are the same thing in hebrew symbolism. go read my very first post.
@kradrol: They are not. White is used for instance to reference leprosy. White does not mean the same thing as pure in Hebrew. More importantly, they are not the same word. Ultimately, SINCE NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN THE GOLDEN PLATES SINCE SMITH'S DAY, how can anyone honestly alter the word Smith used. What is the Hebrew word for pure, what is the one for white? How are they connected? This is a clear demonstrable PC lie!
@VictorLepanto thank you for disproven the jewish religion. I do not speak hebrew so I do not know that actual word. I did, however, learn about jewish sybolism and numberology from a jewish friend of mine, while she was trying to convert me. color, number, and even body parts all have symbolic meaning in jewish culuter. (I'm sure you can find this on wiki)
@kradrol: I love the way you try to protect your illusions by hiding them behind vagueries like "Jewish symbols." I am talking about actual Jewish words. Have you ever tried to find out what the Hebrew for pure & white might be? White is used for leprosy in Exodus. It is used in reference to both Moses & his sister Miriam. Both are said one some point to be white w/ leprosy. Black people are called Cushite in the Bible. Moses married a "Cushite."
@VictorLepanto if I had to guess, I would say you are baptist. (judging by your blantant disreguard for symbolic meaning, despite the fact that jesus himself taught in symbols.) weither you are talking about symbolic meaning or not is irrelevent, symbols are common place in the book of mormon. just look at lehi's dream.
@kradrol: If I had to guess, I'd say you haven't met many Baptists. As for symbolism, there are things in the Bible that a Baptist would call symbolic that I'd call literal, & things he'd call literal that I'd call symbolic. But I am irrelevant, just like Fawn Brody is irrelevant. Objective factual truth is what matters. Not sentimental subjectivity, not a "burnin' in the bossom." I could be Orthodox, or atheist, or Buddhist, or just an embittered ex-mormon for all you know. This is irrelevant.
@VictorLepanto you couldn't be orthodox or atheist or buddhist. you said that the bible is the only true word of god, and that only jesus can save me. that means you are christian.
@VictorLepanto so you don't care about the timeline? you said "the invent re when he 'translated' the boa" that didn't happen until the church purchased the mummies in 1835. the were given to joseph (I will even say "given" if it makes you happy) in 1821. so what langauge were they being translated from for the 14 years before the mummies were purchased? (a gap which includes the publication of the book)
I feel sorry for the mormon because there is a lot of data out there that will rock the very foundation of the mormon faith, I guess that is what you get when you base a faith on a lie
@MrBigbear6718 there is alot of data out there that will confirm our foundation too. that's why I do research, so I can see what data is actually just made up.
I am a life-long mormon, inactive for several years. I was *furious* when I started really investigating the church about a year ago. The stone in the hat, JS mulitiple wives, teen aged wives, marrying other people's wives. The story of the golden plate and the free masons. Yep, the changes to the BOM. The talking salamander.
I love the mormon people. They believe and I never argue, because I beleive it is futile, but I am devestated that the lies are being passed on the new generations.
Thank you cherrymiss72 for sharing with us your experience with the Mormon Church. I was born and raised in the church and it was upsetting for me too when I discovered that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Yes Mormons are nice people and if it was a social club I would have stayed in it; however, it is not a social club, it is a religion that JS invented.
I think most churches are social clubs *really*. Everyone just wants to belong somewhere, and that is how they pull you in. I just had to give up to much of myself to keep going. I denyed my true feelings, kept pushing my thoughts about the things that didn't make sense to me to the back of my mind. But I wanted to know the truth, so went looking and found it. What angers me is all the time, the feelings I had were *right*, and I ignored them and listened to someone else. I don't do that anymore
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that Coriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
These Shiz verses sound like they came from a spooky pirate story you would tell the kids around a camp fire. Pirates, burried treasure. Sound familiar? I could never imagine a body without a head raising up and struggling for breath! How could you tell he was struggling for breath when he had no expression of his face?
This is a good video to do a bit of Mormon bragging don't you think? I was raised mormon. I have ancestors from Independance MO, Nauvoo, the Mormon Battalion. Heck, my one and only wife is a direct decendant of Hyrum Smith. Doesn't this sound like I can't wait to get into my man temple and next into man heaven? If there was any possible way to have stopped these ancestors, I would say,"ARE YOU INSANE?" Are you completely stupid or just dyslexic?
Thanks guys (and GiftoAll) for enjoying the video, more will come with more detailed source information. Do you notice no mormons are not even touching the issues in the vid? Why not, because they can see with their own eyes, changes and corrections made, some of these changes are as recent as the 1980's.
These projects you do are very important. I believe the best confrontations and debate will always come from people that have lived within the community and know the lingo.
Ah, Mormons... another factual video on the unfortunate lds predicament. Who will see? Who will open their eyes? Who will repent and be saved? - You can throw a drowning man a rope, but you can't make him grab it.
Be the first in your Stake to own "Reformed Egyptians For Dummies!!" You'll be the envy of your Ward!!
Your "Reformed Egyptian For Dummies" kit includes a new off-gassing hat, your very own set of magic rocks, and a shiny set of electroplated gold tablets!!
I am calling Fairlds right now they also ripped me off on the CTR ring i ordered. They also didn't let me know that I could have save money switching my car insurance to Geiko.
Here is another problem I have with JS He has the first vision in 1820, he doesn't have the priesthood, he converses with Heavenly Father and Jesus. They tell him to join none of the churches (Christian Churches). In 1829 D&C 13 JS and Oliver Cowdrey get the Aaronic Priesthood from John the Baptist who comes back down to Earth as an Angel. Then in D&C 84:1-5 JS makes a false prophecy, then in verses 6, 7-13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19 JS has been going on and on about the priesthood.
One thing that has been nagging me for years is this thing about 'the golden plates'.Did Joseph Smith really receive the book of Mormon from the messenger from the Elohim?I look into this from time to time and still I find NOTHING about these plates. PLEASE fill me in if possible.Why all the fuss you may ask, because the book of Mormon (if true) was supposedly 'found' in the homeland of the Abenaki people.their language is same as my people.Abenaki =dawn land
If your ancestors lived where the plates were burried you should have heard some stories about it. Or at the very least some stories about ancient Americans that were Jews. Maybe your people knew about the plates. They might have tried to dig them up on several occasions but were unsuccessful because they didn't have a special rock to see underground. Or possibly they didn't perform the right blood sacrifice of killing a goat and forgot to chant before the plates slipped away.
I find it deeply ironic and rather humorous that your handle is "moronigoldplates" yet you have nothing very credible nor in depth about the Book of Mormon. Why don't you just use your own handle? You really think this convinces many? I find it hypocritical. In fact, I tuned out to your research immendiately. Rotal Skousen has outclsses all you anti-Mormons together, and you ignore his materials. Very wise he is far beyond what you can even attain in this life were to even live another 55 yrs
BYP even you in your own words on youtube you proclaim there is no proof for the book of mormon, and yet you say out of the other side of your mouth that the proof is in the text. Your logic is flawed and you are giving the mormon people false hope, in a false system started by a false prophet.
You also say in your vid that you have read thousands of books and you really don't know anything. Then why are you out here?
Are you prepared to pick up your cross Kerry and follow Chirst or do you still want to stay in Mormonism?
Few quick questions, where are the swords in the book of mormon, the coins, why is there no map in the book of mormon?
BYP where is the proof of the book of mormon?
Oh and the book of abraham take the alphabet and grammar JS did and the facsimilies to a professor of Egyptology and that is not a mormon and see what they say about the translation smith did, it isn't good!
Perhaps you would like 'proof' of where Abraham lived in UR or see the skeletons of all Assyrians who were burned? How about showing the world where the Savior said rip down, or excuse me 'enlighten', another person's faith merely because you disagree and don't understand. Why should we believe your interpretations and call it truth? What makes You more credible? Nothing. There are Christian faiths that disagree with your views, should they repent and 'follow Christ ' too? ha. Ridiculous
EphriamLDS, the book of mormon isn't real it is made up, there was no gold plates, believe it all you want but you are believing a fable.
I love how you mormons try to twist things around and attack the bible or bible prophets when someone has issues with mormonism. You say you are Christians but JS first vision attacks Christianity. Your 8th article of faith say you believe the bible, but yet you attack it with ease when someone is challenging Mormonism.
I love Apostates who try to change the argument... you say it's false.. yet greater intellectual giants than You say it's true. You say his visions attack Christianity when his very vision has Christian tones and precedents. There is no reasoning with blatant ignorance of history and principles of the Gospel. I'm sure you "know" the BOM is false, just as you "know" better than all Mormons, right? Tell me what you know of ancient Christian themes and rituals without using Google. Nothing.
Joking again right? Greater intellectual giants,"in your mind" these giants are the elect that have been deceived. Christian tones, "'only in your mind'. You have been taught to inhale this UNbiblical doctrine without even looking at the original gospel. How do you think suckers are made? By telling them a fairy tale.
For starters, you need to drop the belief that Satan and Jesus Christ are brothers. Then you will see Christ as the apostles did.
Jesus didn't wander about telling the apostles how the spirit world is and how many spirit children were waiting. He came with miracles and salvation. He walked on water and raised the dead. He came to save your sorry butt. This wasn't good enough for Joseph Smith. Josephs evolving ideas introduced a new Jesus. Christs sacrifice was no longer sufficient to save everyone. Brighams blood atonement proves this point and it is a blasphemy to God.
ephraimLDS you have changed the subject, you were asked what do the symbols mean on the temple garments and what is your secret name from the temple ceremony and you dodge the question.
The vidoe and channel you are on is about the book of Mormon and mormonism. I really don't care what weird stuff you came up with to attack the ancient Christian church.
The fact is Christianity never fell off the face of the earth there was no falling away.
EphraimLDS, what about JS false prophecy in D&C sect 84:1-5, revelation given in 1832 about a temple to be built in Far West Missiouri? It never came to pass! Can you give me some insight on this.
I also want to thank you EphraimLDS for stopping by the channel. This is not a mormon hate channel, it is anti-mormon, but not hate.
The best source i found Ephraim for anti-momron information was the Church itself, their books, their scriptures, their doctrine.
..The problem with mormonism is that they always have a explanation for everything. We should take it right to Monson's door. Have him show us his powers of holding all the keys. Lets see him heal the sick and raise the dead. Lets see him turn that water from the faucet that they use during sacrament to wine(grape). Lets see some real facts of this religions claims. We already know there no plates to view. No Lands to visit. And no museum to visit and bofm artifacts. Come on LDS.. be real
....Lets make a trip to Utah and visit Monson. i want him to show me a miracle; not tell me about how he knows of one, but show me. I want to see his keys at work.
BYP the Bible gives us a test to test a prophet in Deut. 18:20-22. JS fails that test with D&C 84:1-5 revelation of a temple that was never built in Far West Missouri and D&C 114 with apostle Patten.
All it takes BYP to be a false prophet is to get one wrong. JS got many wrong.
Backyard. An obvious unbiblical doctrine in Mormonism is blood atonement. You never hear much about it. Have your leaders tried to shy away from it? This doctrine shows the world that you don't accept the almighty truthfull infinite God of the Bible. So what god are you following? I would say that you are following a god made by a man! A faux god that was never infinite. A god that accepts lies if he thinks they are appropriate. A god that approves of a skin color and religious bigotry.
If Joseph SmYth had been a true prophet, he would have told his followers that they could have saved a bunch of money on their car insurance by swithching to GEICO.
There ya have it! Lijjick 101 for critics. This is about as good as I have ever seen it. Uh, it ain't braggin rights, so don't go slobbering all over my comment with a load of thanks either. GRIN!
I think Omlo said it best. There have been upwards of 10 thousand changes to the Bookofmormon. The Bible has many changes as well. What about the information, the word of God. Has the grace of God been changed in 2 thous. years? Has the story of Christ, his miracles and the purpose of his sacrifice changed? I think NOT!
I wasn't angry about "truth". I am only angry when the "anti-mormons", what words should I call those non-believers? I am only angry when they name calling the mormons, mocked, and tear down their faith. I don't mind them giving their opinion or sharing a sincere facts, but not ridiculing or trying to hurt the mormons feelings. That's all.
glad you liked it splitseeds, I think I want to focus on the rest of the videos I do on having as much source info as I can. This way the LDS can't just accuse me of making things up.
Changes in Book of Mormon? Big deal. Today's headline says "Bible scholars are about half way through a 20-year project to codify thousands of changes that worked their way into the New Testament as it was translated over time. "
Book of Mormon changes, Bible changes. So what?
DrTerminus 9 months ago
People the information in this video is real and from good sources. Don't listen to the LDS spin doctors or spambots. If you want to research Mormonism on your own, don't even bother to listen to me, use their information. The largest source of Anti-Mormon information is from the LDS church; their prophets, their false prophecies, their changes in doctrines, their outlandish doctrines, and the list goes on. Don't listen to just what another mormon tells you. Research on your own. Find Truth
moronigoldenplates 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto maybe you should consult neutral sources, rather then anti-mormon sources. Porter Rockwell was a bodyguard, not an assassin. and if you aren't aware of any attempts on smith's life, you really aren't looking hard enough. First day he got the plates 3 armed men tried to kill him. he was constantly tarred and featherred, driven out of towns by mobs training to kill him. (well not driven, but I will get to that later) now for the all the beer talk (continued)
kradrol 11 months ago
come on don t drink the cool aid. the only people that argue about the credibility of the book of mormon is a mormon. The book of mormon was written by a man who was involved in the occult and for me the book is only at best religious fiction.
MrBigbear6718 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 I didn't say all of 2 nephi was in isaiah. but about half of it is. however, does 2 nephi 5:15 talk about chariots? or bronze armor? or horses?
kradrol 11 months ago
well excuse me, its not my religion that claims that the book of mormon is comp. to the bible, its not my religion that is very racist to the core, its not my religion that claims to be the most correct book, its not my religion that claims that the Indians are Jews, there were no Nephites no golden plates, so if there were no golden plates, then Jesus did not come to the Americas and if Jesus did not come to the Americas then the bom is a fraud
MrBigbear6718 11 months ago
@MrBigbear6718 if you can say with 100 percent certainty that there were no nephites, then tell me which indian tribe built the city of teotihacon?
kradrol 11 months ago
The "Nephites" are supposed to have kept domesticated horses in the thousands & used chariots & bronze armor on battle. There should be examples of these things in abundance if it is true. It is not true. There are no domesticated horses in America b/f Columbus. No chariots, no carts w/ wheel even. No bronze armor. BoM is a lie from beginning to end. Smith was fraud, probably mentally unstable & most likely was more like a Jeffs or a Koresh or Jim Jones.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto actually the nephites never used any of that stuff. you would know that if you ever actually read the book of mormon. the 2 nephi references to bronze armor, chariots, forged swords, etc. were all quotes from isaiah. half of 2 nephi is quotes from isaiah. so not only have you not read the book of mormon, but I guess you haven't read isaiah either.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I think you might mean plagiarisms from Isaiah. Are you honestly going to claim that the BoM doesn't represent horses as being present in America in the imaginary pre-columbian civilisation of the Nephites? That people ride on horses, in chariots pulled by horses, or that people use metal armor & coins in the New World? I think you are a recent convert.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto no I fully atest to the fact it claims horses were present in pre-columbian america, as do the horse skeletons we found in caves.
kradrol 11 months ago
I do have to say though, it is nice to see you are finally taking my advice and doing some research. sadly, your research seems to show that my claim was right this whole time.
kradrol 11 months ago
the bible is the only source that has been proven correct , and it speeks for itself. Joe absolutely is a joke, a fraud and a sharlaton and people like you need to discover who is actually telling the lies. mormons are tunnel visioned they do not see what is the truth. The only comments I see and read are uneducated rhetoric
MrBigbear6718 11 months ago
@MrBigbear6718 excuse me? you say the bible has been proven correct? I would like to direct you to any number of "is the bible accurate?" videos, article, or tv documentarys. and they call me indoctarnated. I never claimed the book of mormon is proven accurate, I never claimed the book of abraham was proven accurate. I am here to defend these books scientifical. if you want to get back to that then I will continued, but drop the apologetics right here and right now.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Whether or not the Bible is accurate as it has been handed down, it certainly not a fraud. It is a Jewish book handed down for many generations. Archeological evidence confirms the existance of a Jewish people in the Holy Lan for 1,000s of years. Even if the Bible has been altered, IT IS NOT A FRAUD!
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I hate to tell you this, but there is archeological evidence to support the book of mormon too. please look up the city of nahom. (recently descoveried on the indian pennisola.)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: That is really funny. Did they find horses, chariots & bronze artifacts & coins?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto actually they did find horse skeletons. as for bronze artifacts and chariots I assume you are refering to the referrences in 2 nephi, where nephi is quote isaiah. if you aren't then great, but I am unformilliar with any other reference to chariots or forged steel outside of 2 nephi. if you want to "teach me about my religion" then tell me where you are getting the references?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: No one denies that wild horses were once in American b/f Columbus. It is also commonly known they all went extinct about the humans 1st appear in the Americas. The modern domestic horses were taken form the wild source known as Pilzudski's horse, native to the steppes of modern Russia. This happened in the bronze age, long after the native Americans (who are in no way what-so-ever related to the Jews) were isolated in their stone age culture. I also mentioned chariots, etc.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
youtube will not allow me to post a link in the comment section. (not sure why) but any interested parties can message me for the link to the article referenced below.
kradrol 11 months ago
3,913 Changes in the Book of Mormon since 1830. Mormonism still has a lot of other problems to cover up.
rickgigliotti 1 year ago
of course the mormon will not let down his or her guard, and will not look at the proven items that have been dis-proven.
when you research the Bible you can get codes from it, the book of mormon well, I don t think there is a message to it, because ancient reformed Egyptian does not exist.
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
@MrBigbear6718 the bible code can also be found in moby dick, war and peace, lord of the rings, even harry potter. pretty much any book over 100 pages, including the book of mormon, contains the "bible code" it's becuase the bible code is total crap. if you took the time to learn the laws of probability you would know that already.
kradrol 11 months ago
the author needs to do some more research. I can't speak for all 3,000 (or 4,000 depending on who you talk to) so called corrections, but the bom of written using hebrew culture and symbolism. and in hebrew symbols guess what the color white is a symbol of? go ahead guess. did you guess purity? white and pure are the same word, it wasn't speaking of race.
kradrol 1 year ago
@kradrol BOM wasn't translated from Hebrew to English. Joseph Smith used the occult and the power of a seer stone in his hat to translate what each Egyptian symbol he read to Hyrum Smith his brother. Joseph Smith claimed he translated from Reformed Egyptian, even though no one has ever heard of it. Joseph Smith proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt with his translation of regular Egyptian with the Book of Abraham, that he has absolutely no clue of what he is doing or talking about.
moronigoldenplates 1 year ago
@moronigoldenplates have you ever wonderred what reformed egyptian is? it is egyptian written in a hebrew style. we know this through modern day revelation. that means they used hebrew symbols and peotry in the book of mormon. so my comment stands.
kradrol 1 year ago
@moronigoldenplates reformed egyptian is egyptian characters written in a hewbrew style. church leaders have come out and said that.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: & all I'd ask of you is that you offer the names of all the independent Hebrew & Egyptological scholars who support the LDS position on this matter. How many Hebrew linguists were consulted for this report? How many Egyptologists? Please specify the parts of the "Book of Abraham" which demonstrate its "Hebrew style." Where do I find these stylings in facsimiles of the scroll?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto let me count the way in which your comment fails. first, the book of abraham is written in regular egyptain, not reformed. (book of abraham is not part of the book of mormon) second, how would egyptologists or hebrew scholars now of a langague spoken in LATIN AMERICA? third, joseph smiths translation of egytian characters was confirmed to be accurate by an egyptoligist of that time. it was only have he found out what joseph smith was working on that he retracted his statement.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Wow! My comments must have really disturbed you to stir up all this insane bluster. It is Smith himself who invented the term "Reformed Egyptian," if you don't like it, or if you think he was mistaken in saying the BoA was written in RE then you need to take it up w/ him. Who says it is in "Regular Egyptian?" What is that, when was it "regular." You realized various forms of Egyptian became common over the centuries? Name any Egyptologist or Hebraist who backs up Smith.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto the book of abraham wasn't written in reform egytian, the book of mormon was. the book of abraham is not a part of the book of mormon, it is a seperate source. never was i stated that the book of abraham was written in reformed egytian. (do some research, you troll)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol Joseph Smith failed his test with as a true prophet of God when his prophecies failed to come to pass, and by his evidence of the botched Book of Abraham translation. Joseph Smith was a smooth talker and back in his day when he purchased the Egyptian Papyri for the Book of Breathings (B of Abraham) no one in the church back then could prove him wrong. Just like Smith and Youngs other claims of life on the Moon or Sun. Mormonism is a made in America Religion. Only Jesus can save u!
moronigoldenplates 1 year ago
@moronigoldenplates so the book of breathing is the same as the book of abraham? funny how none of the facsimillies in the book of abraham appear in the book of breathing. but wait, I thought it was the book of the dead? now anit-mormons can't even get their own story straight.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: What is the Hebrew word for white, what is the Hebrew word for pure? Are they the same word? Did the "original" golden plates use the one word or the other? Since no one but Smith is supposed to have been able to translate these plates, how can anyone but him alter the translation. Besides, the BoM was written in "Reformed Egyptian." How can you surmise from Hebrew usage what pertains to this fantasy language. Show me a copy of a Reformed Egyptian book & then I'll believe you.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto it wasn't translated from hebrew, so neither hewbrew word appearred. it was, whoever, written in a hebrew writting style. (see my comments about reformed egyptain below) so I have just completely destroyed your whole argument.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Could you please be so good as to direct me to one known Egyptologist who can explain to me when "Reformed Egyptian" was spoken? "Reformed," so am I take it that this a form of Egyptian spoken by Calvinist Egyptians? Much as Orthodox Egyptians use Coptic in their services. Under which dynasty did R.E. arise? How do you know it was in a Hebrew style, since no one ever saw the original plates. By no one I mean Joe Smith also, except in his imagination.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto actually 13 seperate people show the plates, that's not including joseph smith. (try doing some research sometime) next, reformed egytian was the langauge of nephi, who lived in jeruselem, and later latin america. therefor reformed egytian isn't going to show up in any of the egytian dynasties. and as I have stated before, church leaders have told us all what reformed egyptian is. GO LOOK IT UP.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: So, it is not actually Egyptian, it is just called Egyptian? I am perfectly familiar w/ how J.S. claimed to see these imaginary plates, & how he had his friends back up his lie. This, OBVIOUSLY, proves nothing. No independent person was ever allowed to see these imaginary things. No one but Smith ever offered a "translation" of them. The Jews didn't speak any form of Egyptian, they spoke Hebrew. Why would they right their records in foreign tongue?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto so the jews, who were enslaved by the egyptians for hunderreds of years, didn't speak egyptian? that must have made communicating with the slaves hard. why did the egyptians just teach them egyptian instead of needing to learn hebrew? oh that right, THEY DID. once again, go do some research. you are starting to look very very stupid.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Wow, this is such a strange "argument." It is called the Book of Abraham b/c Smith was making pretend that Abraham wrote it. You have read your Bible enough to know that Abraham predates the Egyptian captivity? Even if Israelites learned Egyptian, Hebrew is still their native & primary tongue. King David captured Jerusalem centuries after the time of the captivity. No one would have spoken much in Egyptian when the Jews controlled Jerusalem. & there's no "Reformed Egyptian!"
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto once again, you stupid troll, the book of abraham WASN'T part of the book of mormon. it is a seperate source. therefor, the book of abraham WASN'T written in the reformed egyptian of the book of mormon. before trying to discredit something, you might want to learn what the hell you are talkinabout first.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Actually, it is the BoA that Smith claimed written in his imaginary language of RE. I am actually not certain what if any language Smith claimed for his imaginary original BoM. Maybe he claimed it was Hebrew, maybe he eventually claimed it was also in RE. It doesn't matter, both books are frauds. He either totally invented them from his imagination or he cobbled together various plagarized sources to "make" his books. No Israelites came to America & no angels spoke to Smith.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I usually reserve that statement for the atheists I talk to, but it applies here too. If you don't want to do research then you have no place in the conversation. you can even check anti-mormon sites, they all say the book of mormon was written in reformed egyptian, they make no such claim about the book of abraham. you will be hardpressed to find anyone, mormon or otherwise, that will make that claim. now for the last time GO RESEACH. until then I am done with you.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: You go research, you are making a fool of yourself. You are the one who is ignorant of the inventions of your own religion. I believe the notion of "Reformed Egyptian was invented when Smith acquired the Egyptian scroll & used it as prop to impress his ignorant dupes. I doubt if he even knew there was such a thing as Hebrew when he fabricated the BoM. I know he studied Hebrew for a few months when he lived in Ohio, years after "translating" the BoM. Re: the BoM, How do I reearch them?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto ok. now it's time to own you using your own comments. first quote "Besides, the BoM was written in "Reformed Egyptian."" that is from your first response. next we have "Actually, it is the BoA that Smith claimed written in his imaginary language of RE. I am actually not certain what if any language Smith claimed for his imaginary original BoM." from your response right before this one. (continued)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I will admit that I assume the BoM was also alleged to have been written in RE, as Smith claimed the BoA was written in RE. I never claimed the BoA was part of the BoM, it is placed in Doctrine & Covenants if I remember correctly. I don't really care. There is no such thing as RE. It is a lie, a demonstrable lie. The original scroll from the Smith estate has been discovered. Father Abraham did not write it. The simple fact is that both the BoM & BoA are inventions of Smith.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto the book of abraham is part of the pearl of great price. (showing that you are reling only on memory, or even second hand accounts) and I have seen the so called "original scrolls" that the facsillimes came from. guess what, they don't match the ones in abraham. some of the are very simillar (one being almost exact) but none of the writting is the same, just afew of the pictures are simillar. farthermore, egytalogosist cant' agree on certain aspects of the facsillies.
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto so, ivtorlepanto, not only do you know nothing about what the church believes or teaches, you can't even make up YOUR OWN mind about what YOU believe. you are changing your story in same vain attempt to sound educated, rather then admitting that you made a mistake. the book of abraham was written in egytian, the book of mormon was reformed egyptian, which was egyptain characters written in a hewbrew style. do your research, son.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I've never claimed to be particularly educated, I will state that it is now obvious that I know more about your church then you do. What is a silly phrase like "a Hebrew style" supposed to mean anyway? It is into vacuity & subjectivity that the LDS organisation hides. A more obvious fraud then Smith is hardly imaginable. The idea of RE was invented when Smith bought a Egyptian scroll he used as a prop for his dupes. You should look up the case of the Tinderhook plates.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto "I've never claimed to be particularly educated" well that much is self evident from your lack of historical knowledge, and out-right refusal to do any research on this subject. (which would imply a lack of ability or understanding to proform research) next; "a hebrew style" should be fairly self explanitory. it was written using hebrew sentece structure, phrasing, symoblism, etc. even a basic linguist knows a cultural written styles are. (continued)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: A group of hoaxers, or rather counter hoaxers, had a set of plates they had made themselves at their own expense brought to Smith. They had inscribed some Chinese writing, they took randomly from a book, on these plates. They asked Smith if he could "interpret" these "ancient artifacts they found" as he had the other earlier ones. He did, they then busted him by showing they had made the artifacts themselves. Smith was exposed in the very of lying. HE WAS A FRAUD.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I did some research on the kinderhook plates. (not tinderhook, but I will chalk that up to a typo) and it turns out joseph smith never attempted to translate them. the hoaxer have several discrepentcies in their accounts, and waiting until after joseph was dead to procliam that "they fooled him" there is a wonderful article about all the innaccuracies of the anti-mormon accounts on wikipedia. here is a link. (link to follow)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THE ARTICLE ON THE KINDERHOOK PLATES? I can't believe you looked at the same article on Wiki that I did. They have two contemporary quotes of people quoting Smith "interpreting" the plates. One is Smith's own private secretary. One is woman who visited Nauvoo @ the time. They also have quotes from Mormon sources who actually took the plates as authentic. The LDS Church didn't disassociate from then until 1981! They bragged about them in their own publications!
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto you are referring to the now falsified account from william clayton right? read the article "forgeries related to mormonism" it goes into great detail all the discrepencies in clayton's account, leading to a pretty strong opionion that it was written by someone with no first hand knowledge of the incedent. (and certainly not clayton himself)
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto as for the "They bragged about them in their own publications!" I assume you mean the times and seasons; formerally editted by joseph smith. smith resigned as editor of the times and seasons in nov 1842. they didn't written about the plates into april 1843. so it wasn't a church publication then. and yes, maybe member of the church did consider them authentic, but none of them were church leaders.
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto so it would seem not only do you know research the church, you don't even research your own claims. the hinderhook plates were a complete failure (and as I assumed before hand, had nothing to do with the church) you should try reading an article and not just listening to what your anti-mormon paster tells you.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Of course you assumed. That is what the LDS Church teaches you to do w/ it "burning in the bossom" principle. Abandon the notion of rational, objective, varifiable truth for allowing your feelings about a matter to dictate whether you believe it true or not. As for your Wiki article, not doubt it was written by a person like yourself. Go find the actual report of the hoaxers themselves. Why not just check out the "Book of Abraham" scroll. It proves Smith lied.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto the article included the report from the hoaxers, as well as everything they got wrong. they are admitted hoaxer, and you think they wouldn't lie about fooling the prophet? this is why you must read both sides of any story. the simply fact remains, they failed. joseph's secretary even states that he got out a hebrew dictionary to try to translate them by hand, not by the power of god. the church never offerred an account of joseph's translation, only the hoaxers did. (continued)
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I said I assumed it had nothing to do with the church, but held off on placing final judgement until after I do research. (I just happened to be right in my inital assessment) now to claim, that that account, that I base what is true and false and my 'feelings' is a gross over-step. this whole it has been ME telling YOU to do research, and find the truth for yourself. If either of use are 'guided by of feelings' then it's you.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: & how am I supposed to "research" Smith's golden plates. When angels convenient wisk the relevant evidence back off to Heaven for the prophet. varifying his veracity become difficult. As for the Kinderhook Plates: Smith's own secretary, William Clayton, quotes him as saying the plates were made by a descendent of Pharaoh. The Mormons used to brag about these plates b/f they were proven to be false. Then they were dropped down the Orwellian memory hole
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I have already addressed the article with all the errors in clayton report. I have no reason to believe that the author of that so called report was william clayton. I have already addressed the times and seasons, and how it wasn't a church publication after nov 1842. if you referring to another publication then name it, so I can look into your claims.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: An off hand dismissal is "addressing" an issue. Your own Mark Peterson was bragging about them as late as 1979. I have to ask you something, by "Wiki" do you mean the LDS's own wiki? Does the idea of independent, varifiable evidence mean anything to you? If Clayton didn't write those remarks in the history then who did? It seems that the LDS celebrated these artifacts until they were scientifically & conclusively demonstrated to be a fraud.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I will address your concerns about the kinderhook plates AFTER we clear up the issue of reformed egyptian. it is a simply question, where did it come from and which books were written in it? I want your opion on the subject. then we can move on to the kinderhook plates if you still feel like getting owned.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Jeezie petes! How can I be any clearer? No book has ever been written in RE. There is no such thing as RE. No one has ever seen RE, Smith just made up the term to fool his dupes b/c the Mormons were in a bad state in Ohio @ the time as his ponzi scheme bank fraud was in trouble. He needed a big story to keep the suckers attached to his scam. Does that clarify things for you?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto appearently my grammer is confusing you. which books were "written" in reformed egytian? is that better?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Once again, w/ feeling. There is no such thing as RE. No one has ever written any kind of a book in RE. No one ever will, it doesn't exist. No one will ever translate anything from RE either, it is impossible. The actuall Wikipedia does have a good article on RE. You should go look it up. It does say that the BoM references RE in Mormon 9:32. So now I'm teaching your religion to you. Egyptian has nothing to do w/ Hebrew, it is certainly not more compact then Hebrew, as the BoM claims.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I have claimed the book of mormon to be written in reformed egytian the whole time. how is you showing me a reference to that "teaching your religion to you" all you just did was support MY CLAIMS (I should say thank you)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I asked you for any source for an earlier date for the term. You couldn't provide it. Thus it is demonstrated you didn't know. I really don't CARE when Smith invented this fraud. It is a lie no matter when it began. I don't blame you for not reading the BoM, it is nearly unreadable. A more obvious fabrication by a near illiterate is hard to imagine.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto as I started before, I can not post links in the comment section. I did, however, tell you to read joseph smith history, watch any number of youtube videos, or even look it up on wikipedia. how is that not providing a soure?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: Is not Smith supposed to have stated, "No man knows my history?" He is your prophet after all, if he said it it's gotta be true.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I'm an unformilliar with that particular quote, where did you get it from?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: It is the title of Fawn Brodie's biography of the "prophet." It has many interesting details. Such as Smith getting drunk w/ his friends in the Carthage jail. Smith was probably getting ready to make a plea bargain. Much like Warren Jeffs, when they finally managed to get him in jail.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto so you are using the title of a biography, which clearly contains lies, ask a direct quote from joseph smith? learn your history. most "biographies" about joseph smith, even church sentioned, contain quotes from other people; which had been reworked and rewritten into "his own words" that goes for most biographies of that time period as well.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: If it contains lies, please specify, list just five lies in it so we can discuss them meaningfully. I have picked it up in the book store & poked around in it. I has many interesting passages, such as her account of Smith getting drunk w/ his campanions in the Carthage jail. She makes him out to be getting ready to cop a plea, like Warren Jeffs. Just a day ago you didn't even know the book existed, now you're an expert on the author, slandering her w/ names like "liar." Typical.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto if she makes him out to be copping a plea bargain, and getting drunk with his friends, then it doesn't hold up to comtempary review. no other biography of the prophets life ever protray him drinking, and their is not count in the us that would have offerred him a plea, considerring their entire goal of imprisoning him was to kill him. (after having failed to kill him several times before)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: It actually appears Smith ran a bar out of his home in Nauvoo. Church functions in Nauvoo were often quite drunken affairs. Even Brigham Young in Utah brewed beer & sold a great quantity of it. You really need to consult non-mormon souces. I am aware of a number of occasions in Smith's life where he made death treats against others & it appears his henchman Porter might have assassinated some of o Smith's enemies. I am no aware of any other attempts on Smith's life.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto well it is true that joseph smith ran a socal club (simillar to a bar, but not quite the same) out of his home for church gatherring, he himself did not partake of an alcahol. even as a child he didn't let them give him whiskey to dull the pain during leg surgery. so any source saying smith "got drunk with his friends" is wrong. and most likely is anti-mormon propaganda. as for brigham young, there is no public record of him ever brewing beer. (continued)
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto now for the so called death threats against his enemy. joseph smith commanded the largest millitary brigade of that time, the mormon millita. If he wanted the angry mobs silenced he could have had them slaughterred with one word. He was not driven out of towns, he choose to leave. why? becuase joseph smith wasn't violent. especially not to the capsasity anti-mormons like to make him out to be. try researching from both sides of the fence next time.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol JS wasn't violent...study up on the Mormon Wars, and how Smith got the church kicked out of Missouri, Govenor Boggs had enough of the Mormons and even put a bounty on them. Mormonism is a made in America Religion, Smith was into the occult and used lies and trickery to deceive people. On that part of the spectrum he was very intelligent when it came to deception. But when Smith is put to the test as a prophet of God, he fails again and again. LDS inc allowed JS to be killed.
moronigoldenplates 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I have never heard of the tinderhook plates. (or I might just know them under a different name) which leads me to believe it has nothing to do with the LDS church. are you now just grasping at straws? but unlike you, I am willing to research your claim, and examine it before making up unfactial bs to support my own claims. (expect my full report of this case in the next few days, if not sooner)
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto "I believe the notion of "Reformed Egyptian was invented when Smith acquired the Egyptian scroll & used it as prop to impress his ignorant dupes." the problem is you are the only one that believes that. the rest of us actually study, and know that "reformed egyptain" was first brought up long before the establishment of the church in 1830, which would put it before the church aquired the egyptian papyrius scroll in 1835, wouldnt it?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: You obviously have no idea of the history of Smith's talk of his mythical RE. He invented this notion for his BoA hoax. We have the original scroll Smith used to perpetrate this fraud. Real Egyptologists know what is on this scroll, Abraham had NOTHING to do w/ it. If Smith was using the fraud of RE b/f the scroll, please specify where & how he used this lie. Regardless of when he invented the RE lie, RE is still a lie.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto "If Smith was using the fraud of RE b/f the scroll, please specify where & how he used this lie." I did. several time in fact. the book of mormon was written in reformed egytian. the book of mormon, which was what was written in reformed egytian, was given to joseph smith in 1821. the egytian scrolls containing the book of abraham, which were not written in reformed egytian, but rather in standard egytian, were not purchased until 1835.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: If Smith claimed the BoM was in RE, when did he do so & where? I don't believe you as you obviously don't know what you're talking about but I need OBJECTIVE VARIFIABLE INFORMATION. Name one source where Smith is shown to use the term RE. You don't know what your talking about. There was no original source for the BoM, there is no RE & the BoA is an ordinary funeral scroll & the LDS Church itself confirms the authenticity of the scroll which was in Emma Smith's estate.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto go read joseph smith history. in there he says the plates were written in reformed egyptian. watch any number of youtube videos on the subject of the book of mormon, 9 out of 10 say the same thing. I would post you a link to various articles, but as I stated before youtube is not allowing me to do that. I"m sure you can even find something about reformed egyptian on wikipedia or google.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol I would like to put an end to this whole 'reformed egytian' argument once and for all, as you can not make up your mind what you believe about it. one two occasions you have said the book of mormon was written in reformed egytian, and on two seperate occasions you have said that it was the book of abraham which was written in reformed egytian, and the book of mormon had nothing to do with it. so which is it. where did it come from and which book are written in it?
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I am beginning to doubt that English is your 1st language. I assumed the BoM was ascribed to RE b/c Smith invented that term when he "translated" BoA. I have never said the Smith used term b/f the BoA fraud was initiated. Whether he pretended that the BoM was in RE or Hebrew is of no account to me. There were no gold plates, no BoA, & no RE. Just produce one example of Smith talking about RE b/f the BoA hoax & I'll believe he was already using that fraud b/f the BoA fraud.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto thank you for showing me that you know NOTHING about the timeline of the church. if you claim that smith invented reformed egyptian only after purchasing the abraham scrolls, then the book of mormon can't be in reformed egytian. the book of fully written and published 5 years before the scrolls were purchased. you, my friend, just LOST. now we can move on the kinderhook plates.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I never said anything about anyone buying anything. Whenever Smith bought these things is immaterial to me. The fact is that he saw them & copied them, he hardly needed own them to do that. A man was making a living off them at the time, so maybe Smith couldn't buy them until later. I am actually from Ohio, so I am somewhat familiar w/ his history here. He left the state ahead of the sheriff's posse, as he did throughout his life. A bank fraud, a ponzi scheme like Madoff's
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@ Kradol: I would have you answer a question of mine. As no one is supposed to have ever seen these "golden plates" since the time of Smith. How can anyone ever dare to alter the BoM account in any way what-so-ever? No one w/o access to the original sources can know what their accurate contents are. So, how does the LDS Church dare to alter the Prophets original words? How is this not corrupting the supposedly true Prophets words?
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I can answer your question simply, none of changes made the book for anything significant. any error in publishing, are grammitical change, or simply a rephrasing of symbols. people claim there are over 3,000 corrections (some say 4,000) so why haven't anyone published I list of all 3,000? I can only find about 200, and they are all minor changes.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: You will always minimize the gravity of the changes, I am sure. How is "white & delightsome" changing to "pure & delightsome" a small, merely grammatical change? It is clearly a change of meaning. The original & obvious racial signicance was deliberately changed to make the BoM more marketable in our present age. The disgusting racist character of the original is repugnant, this doesn't justify LYING about what it really said.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto I addressed that at the very begining of this debate. white and pure are the same thing in hebrew symbolism. go read my very first post.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: They are not. White is used for instance to reference leprosy. White does not mean the same thing as pure in Hebrew. More importantly, they are not the same word. Ultimately, SINCE NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN THE GOLDEN PLATES SINCE SMITH'S DAY, how can anyone honestly alter the word Smith used. What is the Hebrew word for pure, what is the one for white? How are they connected? This is a clear demonstrable PC lie!
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto thank you for disproven the jewish religion. I do not speak hebrew so I do not know that actual word. I did, however, learn about jewish sybolism and numberology from a jewish friend of mine, while she was trying to convert me. color, number, and even body parts all have symbolic meaning in jewish culuter. (I'm sure you can find this on wiki)
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: I love the way you try to protect your illusions by hiding them behind vagueries like "Jewish symbols." I am talking about actual Jewish words. Have you ever tried to find out what the Hebrew for pure & white might be? White is used for leprosy in Exodus. It is used in reference to both Moses & his sister Miriam. Both are said one some point to be white w/ leprosy. Black people are called Cushite in the Bible. Moses married a "Cushite."
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto if I had to guess, I would say you are baptist. (judging by your blantant disreguard for symbolic meaning, despite the fact that jesus himself taught in symbols.) weither you are talking about symbolic meaning or not is irrelevent, symbols are common place in the book of mormon. just look at lehi's dream.
kradrol 11 months ago
@kradrol: If I had to guess, I'd say you haven't met many Baptists. As for symbolism, there are things in the Bible that a Baptist would call symbolic that I'd call literal, & things he'd call literal that I'd call symbolic. But I am irrelevant, just like Fawn Brody is irrelevant. Objective factual truth is what matters. Not sentimental subjectivity, not a "burnin' in the bossom." I could be Orthodox, or atheist, or Buddhist, or just an embittered ex-mormon for all you know. This is irrelevant.
VictorLepanto 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto you couldn't be orthodox or atheist or buddhist. you said that the bible is the only true word of god, and that only jesus can save me. that means you are christian.
kradrol 11 months ago
@VictorLepanto so you don't care about the timeline? you said "the invent re when he 'translated' the boa" that didn't happen until the church purchased the mummies in 1835. the were given to joseph (I will even say "given" if it makes you happy) in 1821. so what langauge were they being translated from for the 14 years before the mummies were purchased? (a gap which includes the publication of the book)
kradrol 11 months ago
I feel sorry for the mormon because there is a lot of data out there that will rock the very foundation of the mormon faith, I guess that is what you get when you base a faith on a lie
MrBigbear6718 1 year ago
@MrBigbear6718 there is alot of data out there that will confirm our foundation too. that's why I do research, so I can see what data is actually just made up.
kradrol 1 year ago
i heard that joseph smith had a tail, and that his head was as big as a Burger King WHOPPER...
MrTruthsifter 1 year ago
Well done. thanks.
bigeyedfish0041 2 years ago
Good job, keep up the good work.
theoptionator 2 years ago
yea and i say unto thee,
good job you have taken the challenge and suceeded :)
p3tr0114 2 years ago
good vid! ;) thanks
MALDITTOROKKERO 2 years ago
Glad you like the video, It is now available in French and Spanish for people to learn the truth about Mormonism.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
I am a life-long mormon, inactive for several years. I was *furious* when I started really investigating the church about a year ago. The stone in the hat, JS mulitiple wives, teen aged wives, marrying other people's wives. The story of the golden plate and the free masons. Yep, the changes to the BOM. The talking salamander.
I love the mormon people. They believe and I never argue, because I beleive it is futile, but I am devestated that the lies are being passed on the new generations.
cherrymiss72 2 years ago
Thank you cherrymiss72 for sharing with us your experience with the Mormon Church. I was born and raised in the church and it was upsetting for me too when I discovered that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Yes Mormons are nice people and if it was a social club I would have stayed in it; however, it is not a social club, it is a religion that JS invented.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
I think most churches are social clubs *really*. Everyone just wants to belong somewhere, and that is how they pull you in. I just had to give up to much of myself to keep going. I denyed my true feelings, kept pushing my thoughts about the things that didn't make sense to me to the back of my mind. But I wanted to know the truth, so went looking and found it. What angers me is all the time, the feelings I had were *right*, and I ignored them and listened to someone else. I don't do that anymore
cherrymiss72 2 years ago
A sister in Christ, you found the truth?
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
...thank you brother ...you teach us non-mormons so much...we'll definitely pass this on...
dimtry19 2 years ago
great video, great background music.
Very revealing. Thank you.
*****
james3v6 2 years ago
thanks james3v6 glad you liked it.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Book of Mormon - Ether 15:30-32
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that Coriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
What's the music to this video?
cuttlefisch 2 years ago
These Shiz verses sound like they came from a spooky pirate story you would tell the kids around a camp fire. Pirates, burried treasure. Sound familiar? I could never imagine a body without a head raising up and struggling for breath! How could you tell he was struggling for breath when he had no expression of his face?
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
"...their liberty, their lands, their wives, and their children..." Alma 48:10
"...they have taken up arms to defend themselves, and their wives, and their children, and their lands..." Alma 35:13
"We have taken up Arms in defence of our Liberty, our Property; our Wives and our Children..." George Washington, 1775 Canada Letter.
exmoagogo 2 years ago
Howdy exmo. Good to hear from you.
This is a good video to do a bit of Mormon bragging don't you think? I was raised mormon. I have ancestors from Independance MO, Nauvoo, the Mormon Battalion. Heck, my one and only wife is a direct decendant of Hyrum Smith. Doesn't this sound like I can't wait to get into my man temple and next into man heaven? If there was any possible way to have stopped these ancestors, I would say,"ARE YOU INSANE?" Are you completely stupid or just dyslexic?
GiftoAll 2 years ago
Thanks guys (and GiftoAll) for enjoying the video, more will come with more detailed source information. Do you notice no mormons are not even touching the issues in the vid? Why not, because they can see with their own eyes, changes and corrections made, some of these changes are as recent as the 1980's.
That goes beyond just an error with the press.
Thanks all of you for your support and help!
MGP
(ex-mormon for Jesus)
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
These projects you do are very important. I believe the best confrontations and debate will always come from people that have lived within the community and know the lingo.
Thanks again MGP.
GiftoAll 2 years ago
they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all Alma 43:45
they fight for their wives, their children, their liberty, and their all.
Peter Thatcher, "A Sermon, Preached Before the Ancient and Honorable Artillery
Company, June 3, 1793"
exmoagogo 2 years ago
Good work moronigoldenplates -
Ah, Mormons... another factual video on the unfortunate lds predicament. Who will see? Who will open their eyes? Who will repent and be saved? - You can throw a drowning man a rope, but you can't make him grab it.
Blessings to you.
RPM11111 2 years ago
ou've PRAYED!! You've PAID!! You've OBEYED!!
NOW, IT'S HERE!!
"Reformed Egyptian For Dummies!!"
Be the first in your Stake to own "Reformed Egyptians For Dummies!!" You'll be the envy of your Ward!!
Your "Reformed Egyptian For Dummies" kit includes a new off-gassing hat, your very own set of magic rocks, and a shiny set of electroplated gold tablets!!
All Yours for only $149.95 + Shipping & Handling
Call 1- 800 -324 -7l37 That's 1-800-FAIRLDS
Call NOW!! "Se Habla Lamanite"!!
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
I am calling Fairlds right now they also ripped me off on the CTR ring i ordered. They also didn't let me know that I could have save money switching my car insurance to Geiko.
Those creeps!
calivideoguy 2 years ago
Then in D&C verse 22 after JS has gone on and on about the priesthood, says "For without this (priesthood) no man can see the face of God and live.
One of 4 things happened in 1820 (remember JS did not have the priesthood):
#1 JS died in 1820, we know that didn't happen.
#2 JS didn't see God, the LDS will deny that.
#3 D&C 84:22 is false, LDS don't like that they will not call their own scripture false.
#4 JS didn't see anything in 1820.
That is the theory believe and follow.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Here is another problem I have with JS He has the first vision in 1820, he doesn't have the priesthood, he converses with Heavenly Father and Jesus. They tell him to join none of the churches (Christian Churches). In 1829 D&C 13 JS and Oliver Cowdrey get the Aaronic Priesthood from John the Baptist who comes back down to Earth as an Angel. Then in D&C 84:1-5 JS makes a false prophecy, then in verses 6, 7-13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19 JS has been going on and on about the priesthood.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
One thing that has been nagging me for years is this thing about 'the golden plates'.Did Joseph Smith really receive the book of Mormon from the messenger from the Elohim?I look into this from time to time and still I find NOTHING about these plates. PLEASE fill me in if possible.Why all the fuss you may ask, because the book of Mormon (if true) was supposedly 'found' in the homeland of the Abenaki people.their language is same as my people.Abenaki =dawn land
interstellarwonder 2 years ago
If your ancestors lived where the plates were burried you should have heard some stories about it. Or at the very least some stories about ancient Americans that were Jews. Maybe your people knew about the plates. They might have tried to dig them up on several occasions but were unsuccessful because they didn't have a special rock to see underground. Or possibly they didn't perform the right blood sacrifice of killing a goat and forgot to chant before the plates slipped away.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
It's like a who's who of anti-Mormon slack-jawed yokels on this board.
canadianbacon007 2 years ago
I find it deeply ironic and rather humorous that your handle is "moronigoldplates" yet you have nothing very credible nor in depth about the Book of Mormon. Why don't you just use your own handle? You really think this convinces many? I find it hypocritical. In fact, I tuned out to your research immendiately. Rotal Skousen has outclsses all you anti-Mormons together, and you ignore his materials. Very wise he is far beyond what you can even attain in this life were to even live another 55 yrs
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
BYP even you in your own words on youtube you proclaim there is no proof for the book of mormon, and yet you say out of the other side of your mouth that the proof is in the text. Your logic is flawed and you are giving the mormon people false hope, in a false system started by a false prophet.
You also say in your vid that you have read thousands of books and you really don't know anything. Then why are you out here?
Could it be the blind leading the blind?
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Proof and evidence are not the same things. Until youfigure this out, you will continue to misunderstand my stance.
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
Are you prepared to pick up your cross Kerry and follow Chirst or do you still want to stay in Mormonism?
Few quick questions, where are the swords in the book of mormon, the coins, why is there no map in the book of mormon?
BYP where is the proof of the book of mormon?
Oh and the book of abraham take the alphabet and grammar JS did and the facsimilies to a professor of Egyptology and that is not a mormon and see what they say about the translation smith did, it isn't good!
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Perhaps you would like 'proof' of where Abraham lived in UR or see the skeletons of all Assyrians who were burned? How about showing the world where the Savior said rip down, or excuse me 'enlighten', another person's faith merely because you disagree and don't understand. Why should we believe your interpretations and call it truth? What makes You more credible? Nothing. There are Christian faiths that disagree with your views, should they repent and 'follow Christ ' too? ha. Ridiculous
EphraimLDS 2 years ago
EphriamLDS, the book of mormon isn't real it is made up, there was no gold plates, believe it all you want but you are believing a fable.
I love how you mormons try to twist things around and attack the bible or bible prophets when someone has issues with mormonism. You say you are Christians but JS first vision attacks Christianity. Your 8th article of faith say you believe the bible, but yet you attack it with ease when someone is challenging Mormonism.
Joseph Smith is a false prophet!
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
I love Apostates who try to change the argument... you say it's false.. yet greater intellectual giants than You say it's true. You say his visions attack Christianity when his very vision has Christian tones and precedents. There is no reasoning with blatant ignorance of history and principles of the Gospel. I'm sure you "know" the BOM is false, just as you "know" better than all Mormons, right? Tell me what you know of ancient Christian themes and rituals without using Google. Nothing.
EphraimLDS 2 years ago
Joking again right? Greater intellectual giants,"in your mind" these giants are the elect that have been deceived. Christian tones, "'only in your mind'. You have been taught to inhale this UNbiblical doctrine without even looking at the original gospel. How do you think suckers are made? By telling them a fairy tale.
For starters, you need to drop the belief that Satan and Jesus Christ are brothers. Then you will see Christ as the apostles did.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
Jesus didn't wander about telling the apostles how the spirit world is and how many spirit children were waiting. He came with miracles and salvation. He walked on water and raised the dead. He came to save your sorry butt. This wasn't good enough for Joseph Smith. Josephs evolving ideas introduced a new Jesus. Christs sacrifice was no longer sufficient to save everyone. Brighams blood atonement proves this point and it is a blasphemy to God.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
ephraimLDS you have changed the subject, you were asked what do the symbols mean on the temple garments and what is your secret name from the temple ceremony and you dodge the question.
The vidoe and channel you are on is about the book of Mormon and mormonism. I really don't care what weird stuff you came up with to attack the ancient Christian church.
The fact is Christianity never fell off the face of the earth there was no falling away.
JS failed the biblical test for a false prophet
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
EphraimLDS, what about JS false prophecy in D&C sect 84:1-5, revelation given in 1832 about a temple to be built in Far West Missiouri? It never came to pass! Can you give me some insight on this.
I also want to thank you EphraimLDS for stopping by the channel. This is not a mormon hate channel, it is anti-mormon, but not hate.
The best source i found Ephraim for anti-momron information was the Church itself, their books, their scriptures, their doctrine.
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
..The problem with mormonism is that they always have a explanation for everything. We should take it right to Monson's door. Have him show us his powers of holding all the keys. Lets see him heal the sick and raise the dead. Lets see him turn that water from the faucet that they use during sacrament to wine(grape). Lets see some real facts of this religions claims. We already know there no plates to view. No Lands to visit. And no museum to visit and bofm artifacts. Come on LDS.. be real
uSoBayArea 2 years ago
EpraimLDS what do the symbols mean on your temple garments? What is your secret name that was given to you in the temple?
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
I already have and already do, and Jesus told me it's just fine for me to be a Mormon. I got it covered, thanks.
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
..Jesus also probably told you that you will be judged by your belief in false apostles and prophets.
uSoBayArea 2 years ago
No, he told me to be wise and recognize the true prophets and Apostles......
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
....Lets make a trip to Utah and visit Monson. i want him to show me a miracle; not tell me about how he knows of one, but show me. I want to see his keys at work.
uSoBayArea 2 years ago
BYP the Bible gives us a test to test a prophet in Deut. 18:20-22. JS fails that test with D&C 84:1-5 revelation of a temple that was never built in Far West Missouri and D&C 114 with apostle Patten.
All it takes BYP to be a false prophet is to get one wrong. JS got many wrong.
And you still want to follow a false prophet?
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Backyard. An obvious unbiblical doctrine in Mormonism is blood atonement. You never hear much about it. Have your leaders tried to shy away from it? This doctrine shows the world that you don't accept the almighty truthfull infinite God of the Bible. So what god are you following? I would say that you are following a god made by a man! A faux god that was never infinite. A god that accepts lies if he thinks they are appropriate. A god that approves of a skin color and religious bigotry.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
It isn't Mormon doctrine. So there isn't a problem.
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
If Joseph SmYth had been a true prophet, he would have told his followers that they could have saved a bunch of money on their car insurance by swithching to GEICO.
It's so easy, even a LAMANITE could do it!!
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
There ya have it! Lijjick 101 for critics. This is about as good as I have ever seen it. Uh, it ain't braggin rights, so don't go slobbering all over my comment with a load of thanks either. GRIN!
TheBackyardProfessor 2 years ago
I think Omlo said it best. There have been upwards of 10 thousand changes to the Bookofmormon. The Bible has many changes as well. What about the information, the word of God. Has the grace of God been changed in 2 thous. years? Has the story of Christ, his miracles and the purpose of his sacrifice changed? I think NOT!
Jesus did not lie. His word will last forever.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
lol.
EphraimLDS 2 years ago
Isn't it funny how Mormons will cry "Anti Mormon" when their true history is revealed?
Mormons laugh when they lied about. But Mormons get angry when the truth about them is told.
Jesus Christ, Not Joseph Christ. !
Great Video
walkonking 2 years ago
I wasn't angry about "truth". I am only angry when the "anti-mormons", what words should I call those non-believers? I am only angry when they name calling the mormons, mocked, and tear down their faith. I don't mind them giving their opinion or sharing a sincere facts, but not ridiculing or trying to hurt the mormons feelings. That's all.
klown1975 2 years ago
glad you like the vid walkonking. :)
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago
Very good!
splitspeeds 2 years ago
glad you liked it splitseeds, I think I want to focus on the rest of the videos I do on having as much source info as I can. This way the LDS can't just accuse me of making things up.
Have a great day!
moronigoldenplates 2 years ago