Can Thomas Monson say Jesus sinned and still be a true prophet?

[cbl2988]

Watching someone demonstrate cognitive dissonance is fun. Mormons want to have their cake and eat it too. I love watching them try.

[EvidenceMinistries]

From the 1:30 mark to 2:10, this Mormon effectually says that something cannot truly be blasphemous unless it is an official proclamation. "Official blasphemy." WOW!

[ChristianKid99]

Okay, so if I say Oh my G*d and don't declare it my official doctrine, it isn't blasphemy? Really? We shall not use the Lord's name in vain. Calling Jesus a sinner, who was the PERFECT lamb for our sins isn't in VAIN?

[jrobison2010]

Well said, Aaron. Thank you for clearing up the confusion. Not that I believe that Thomas Monson is perfect by any means, himself. No man is without sin. Jesus Christ, it is said is the only one that has had the ability to become perfect in this life as a whole. The Lord has counseled us to trust no man. Great Counsel! :-)

[jrobison2010]

where's the evidence to prove his point? This whole discussion is erroneous. Thomas Monson has been misrepresented.

[aaronshaf2006]

@jrobison2010 Neighbor, perhaps you misunderstood the conversation? Neither of us were claiming that Monson actually taught that Jesus sinned. Rather, we were discussing what the implications would be IF Monson were ever to teach such a thing.

[hannibalchengthe2nd]

How can they believe that God The Father can be a sinner and his son, Jesus Christ, a sinner? What is up with that? If he is the son of God, and God sinned, how can Jesus be incapable of sin?

[IExposeMormonism]

Well, if "Jesus is a sinner" isn't enough how about "Jesus is a Polygamist". No? Well, how about "Jesus is a polytheist"? No? well, how about endless celestial sex? (I like that one too...). Mormonism is like BF Skinner's pigeon's, you get them to do anything and when you get a Mormon trained you have a true "pigeon dancer". I posted a bunch of Adam=God videos using only Mormon references. Adam=God is pure Mormonism.

[standinmyshoes]

KakkoiGuy posts a comment here about Hebrews 1:1-3. But that passage nowhere says that there will be no more prophets. And we know from Ephesians 4:11-14 that there ARE to be prophets and apostles. So you might say that Ephesians 4 is a "stupidity killer."

[standinmyshoes]

There is a lot of foolishness here, on all sides. The what-if game is utterly useless. It purports to explore prophetic fallibility and infallibility, which means that you could ask the same kinds of questions of a Catholic about the Pope and possibly get the same kinds of poorly considered, incoherent answers if the Catholic fellow happened to be as dopey as this kid.

[reteplekrom]

John 14:26 NIV JESUS said: "But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." God does not require perfection of his apostles or prophets and they are not infalliable, but if Tommy Monson ever said Jesus was a sinner I would run for the hills even if it was just his opnion. I just don't see that happening EVER.

[awolLDSasap]

Doctrines that blow to and fro in the wind.

[KakkoiGuy1]

Do Mormons read and study Hebrews at all? I love the book of Hebrews. It's what I call "THE CULT KILLER". From JW's to SDA's, to Mormonism. Hebrews 1:1-3 deals DIRECTLY with the Mormon church and it's view on living prophets that God speaks through to all of his people on earth like in the Old Testament. Because in these LATTER DAYS He speaks to us through HIS SON. Good word. Hebrews chapter 7-10 deal with the old testament priesthoods vs Jesus being our High Priest & only one like Melchizidek

[Sk8er408]

@KakkoiGuy1 Hebrews 1:1-3

Wait... so it is only by Jesus that God speaks to us? Who wrote the book of Hebrews and when was it written?

[KakkoiGuy1]

@Sk8er408 Did you even read that? There is nothing more to even say. God (Jesus) wrote the Book of Hebrews and used a man to physically write it on paper. Then again, if you were Christian, you'd know that. But you don't have the spirit of truth (They Holy Spirit) nor The Truth (JESUS...the Biblical Jesus) so you don't understand that. The Bible answers that question and if you read it you would know that too. Have a nice day.

[Sk8er408]

@KakkoiGuy1

Yea i did read that "Because in these LATTER DAYS He speaks to us through HIS SON"

God (the Father as Jesus is the Son) Sorry but God nor Jesus wrote it. You are detached from all reality with this stance You are ignorant of the facts. How it works is God inspires men with the Spirit. & they write things down. Then it is translated. & with that translation comes errors. You can deny them but they are plain and simply there. You can not see them cause you are without the spirit.

[Sk8er408]

@KakkoiGuy1 The Bible answers that question and if you read it you would know that too. Have a nice day.

The bible answers nothing. You lean on your own understanding of a book when you should be looking to God. Poor soul learned nothing but sins in his pride depending on his own understanding of things.

[reteplekrom]

If the Holy Ghost cannot bear witness of it, then it is false doctrine. It doesn't matter the pulpit, the person or the publication. Truth is borne witness of by The Spirit of the Lord. Prophets make mistakes because they are human beings,

[RPM11111]

@reteplekrom

You said: "It doesn't matter the pulpit, the person or the publication. Truth is borne witness of by The Spirit of the Lord"

So, it doesn't matter what the Bible says then? (Acts 17:11-12; 2 Tim 3:16-17; Isa 55:11; Matt 24:35)

Ps 138:2 "I will worship toward Your holy temple, And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your WORD above all Your name."

What if the spirit conflicts with the Bible? Your approach opens the door for anything.

[RPM11111]

He said: "I don't know...I haven't really thought about it...I can't explain why I believe it that way" 1 Tim 4:1-2

This guy is an upcoming apologist for the Mormon church???

I hope they have others, because he isn't doing much in the way good apologetics for them - just dancing around the real issue with deflections and excuses.

In his defense, nobody can do good apologetics for the Mormon church - it's indefensible within open and honest discussion.

[anonazero]

@RPM11111 well, its like my grampa says. you can't make somethin outta nothin.

mormonism is lies, therefore, impossible to defend.

[RPM11111]

So, it's not blasphemy if it's your own opinion?

Aren't we judged on our own opinion about Jesus?

I get the impression this guy is covering for the eventuality that his "prophet" has or will say something like this (of course without adding that it was a revelation or offical doctrine).

Mormons are astonishingly adept at making excuses or expemptions for any heretical theological comment made by their church leaders.

[MsFreedom2fly]

Whoa! I am so glad that the LORD brought me out of the Mormon church.

[beatleman69]

Calling Jesus a "sinner" whether its your opinion or not is still blasphemy against God because it goes against the Bible and who Jesus was and is. Jesus became sin for us in the garden of Gethsemane and died in our place on the cross. The crown of thorns on Jesus head represents sin. Anyone who brings forth another doctrine that contridicts the Bible and makes claims that are not scriptural IS a false prophet. Jesus warned us in Matthew chap.24 of this. The mormon church is the lie of satan.

[jal84084]

I appreciate the pleasant and respectful exchange by both!

A couple questions for Steve?

How far would the opinion of a LDS prophet, seer and revelator have to stray away from modern/conventional LDS doctrine for him to be considered a false/untrue prophet? I know that is a speculative question, sorry.

I recently had a LDS friend tell me that the King Follett Discourse was J.S.'s opinion, would you agree with that? Do you think J.S. was speaking as prophet when he "unveiled" this teaching?

[skygazeband]

,“How much UNBELIEF exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular DOCTRINE which I revealed to them, AND WHICH GOD REVEALED TO ME—namely that Adam is our father and God—I do not know, I do not inquire, I CARE NOTHING ABOUT IT! ~ Brigham Young, June 8, 1873, reported in DN, June 18, 1873, pp. 308-09.

[dragonhlm]

WOW! It is amazing to watch the mental acrobatics people will go through to maintain belief.

[isthechurchtrue]

Some Mormons believe that God the Father was once a sinner before he became a God and created Jesus Christ (a sinless being). They are willing to say that God the Father was once a sinner but they are unwilling to say that Jesus Christ was ever a sinner. This is very convoluted and raises the question how did God the Father receive forgiveness for his sins before he became a God in a time when Jesus Christ was not created yet.

[IExposeMormonism]

@isthechurchtrue Mormon Jesus must be a sinner. All gods were born men and had to be perfected. To be perfected means there is error in need of correction. This is why it takes eons to become a god and get your own planetary system. Mormon Jesus is a sinning polytheistic polygamist. yummy.

[isthechurchtrue]

The problem with Mormonism is that you cannot tell if the "Prophet" is speaking as a man or the "Prophet" until what he is saying is proven or disproved by another source. Once their statement is proven false then Mormons just say he was speaking as a man even though millions of Mormons thought he was speaking as the "Prophet" when he said it. The potential to be misled in this manner is great in Mormonism. Also it is just a cop-out to say that the "Prophet" was speaking as a man at the time.

[natkinson111]

Wow this gentleman Steve is just making excuses for everything brought up to him. He really needs to read to true bible not the LDS bible and his own churches teachings regarding Mormonism. Just my opinion.

[MrWant2watch]

This is a fine example of brainwashed. putting the so called church above Jesus.