Congress is considering passing a bill by the name of Bill S.978 in a couple of weeks, that of which shut down all livestreams and let's plays! It will ruin the artist community dedicated towards creating fan art for their favorite movie, TV show, videogame, music group, etc. Artists that merely wish to express their interest in copyrighted material cannot. Please act! Thumbs up this comment to magnify this problem! This may become the end of youtube!
@PeterOrszagCallMe I like that you ignorantly use quotes as if doing so actually makes a person have said something they did not literally say. All while attacking the credibility of other debaters. My guess is that you know little about the constitution, the shear lack of a constitutionally supported "wall between church and state" (see what I did there, I use quotes to quote something you ACTUALLY said) not to mention the lack of a 'Power to regulate interpersonal relationships' clause.
I love the fact that more people hit dislike than like on Olbermann. I congratulate the youtube community for their ability to sniff out B.S. like this message.
How about Nancy Pelosi spending Americans' money on socialistic health plans, or Barack Obama supporting a mosque for a religion that attacked us, treats women as slaves, and executes homosexuals?
@primogennaio You're right, we need to spend more money on unnecessary wars and help rich megalomaniac televangelist build more churches rather than waste tax money on sissy health care or let someone build a mosque where he wants like everyone else.
P.S. Olbermann has the absolute worst ratings in Cable news for 3 years running, I wouldn't worry too much about what he says or get in arguments about him :)
I think it's awesome how Olbermann has the guts to attack Dallin Oaks on law issues :) Olbermann = stupid idiot who got fired from ESPN Dallin Oaks: Lawyer and law professor for 20 years, helped draft the bill of rights of Illinois in 1970, and justice on Utah Supreme Court. Hmm...I wonder who knows more about American Law...that's a tough one!
I have no problem with Olby calling a white trash bigot like that Mormon scumbag out. You support him cause you are a bigoted piece of Xtian trash like he is. Legal training or not, the guy is scum. After all, Hitler had distinguished judges and lawyers who helped draft & enforce the Nuremberg laws, You are just another gay hating lowlife scum who hides behind some backwards redneck religious drivel.
No wonder this dude is on MSNBC he is a complete moron, Fox news is the Only News channel u can trust cuz they actually give u FACTS not a bunch of BS. All of the Liberal news sations like MSNBC and CNN praise Obama for what hes doing even though he is slowly leading this country to Hell
Keith has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to the Mormon religion(and probably any religion for that matter). Someone tell keith to shut his face! haha After watching this I realize why his ratings are so bad.
that's not what Keith is saying...he's not talking about the Mormon religion, he's talking about it's history. Read a book you idiot. We had a war with the Mormons. Maybe someone should tell you to shut your face..
@EsClayWilson after reading your erroneous and hatred-filled comments I am surprised by your bigotry after claiming that the mormons are bigots. I think that is called hypocrisy. just saying....
@mhale86 what exactly is erroneous? Mormonism had a built in racist theology that was repudiated only 32 years ago? That most Mormons I met, after they went through their fake friendly Dale Carnegie salesman front, ended up being totally bigoted against all other faiths & arseheads too? That Mormonism was popular in Germany. That the LDS was the driving force behind Prop 8? When you Mormons go around selling your phony crap, did it occur to you that is a slight against the victim's faith.
@EsClayWilson bigotry plain and simple! haha your comments define bigotry! It seems like you are singling out mormons because you have had a few bad examples with them. And if they weren't mormons then what would you do? come onto youtube and find videos that hate people in general and comment on those??? you are classic. How are they reacist? because for almost 170 years they have been anti-slavery. racism is hatred towards a particular race or many.
@EsClayWilson The mormons did not show any hatred towards a particular race. now they did not allow them to hold the priesthood but could partake in every part of church services. Do you see where you are erroneous?
Oh and not to mention, you say mormons took away the "right" of gays to marry. I believe somewhere around 80% of blacks voted YES on Prop 8. I don't see you ripping on blacks for being against gay marriage, or any protests at the NAACP, or desecrating important black monuments. Just saying, the PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA made this decision, not the mormons
Also, the 60s Civil Rights movement proved that overturning institutional discrimination is a slow process and initially unpopular with the majority (in California a VERY SLIGHT majority). One does not attack the public but the entrenched bigot institutions who are the strongholds of intolerance. THE PEOPLE are not necessarily set out to ban fair marriage, but are largely unsure of changing the status quo BLAME THE MORMON CHURCH.
@wildeone121 its a lot easier to blame the mormons than blame black people. keith olbermann is an idiot though. The only guy i like on that channel is jack cafferty.
@EsClayWilson Well in general Black's are very anti gay. The left in california Bussed new black voters to the voting polls for the historic election and they also voted against prop 8. It's the voter that caused prop 8. not the mormons.
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i think that the whole prop 8 thing was missunderstood. Mormons are not anti gay. Mormons believe that giving gays a right to marry infringes on religious freedom. They feel that if this passes, then eventually the government will make churches participate in gay mairrage.
The funny thing is, all (legit) Christian religions are against gay rights, so its stupid to blame it on the mormons. Obviousley a ton of people are against gay marraige, so its stupid to blame it on the mormons.
How does any of that not make them anti gay? As a matter of fact, you seem to be claiming all Christian religions are anti-gay, and you sound anti-gay yourself. So why do you think you have any credibility?
Whatever Mormons feel they need to get a reality check. Gay marriages in no way infringe on religious freedom. Do Jewish, Muslim, Baptist etc... marriages also infringe on Mormon's freedom? In fact just like all of these, gay marriages would have no effect whatsoever on Mormon marriages. The marriages of other people have nothing to do with Mormon marriages. Also, after the history of Mormons with gay people it's stupid to claim that the Mormon church isn't anti-gay.
Dallin Oaks comparing Mormons to blacks during the civil rights movement is idiotic. Especially considering black men couldn't even hold the priesthood till 1979--well after tha civil rights movement had started.
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you might no realize this. but the Mormons have been the most discriminated minority in the United States since the church was started. Much more discriminated than the blacks ever were.
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they weren't enslaved, but there was an extermination order sent out on the Mormons. Let me repeat that, there was an EXTERMINATION order sent against the Mormons.
Never in the history of the United States has there been an order to kill all the blacks.
The Mormons are discriminated much more than any other religion in the United States and more than any ethnic group.
Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, but you know it's true.
Still doesn't rise to the level of blacks. They were considered property and could be killed by their owners. The fact that most Christian churches oppose gay marriage doesn't excuse the Mormons funding the elimination of the human rights of gay & lesbian people in California. And the idea that Mormons are more discriminated against that any ethnic or sexual minority is idiotic. You just come off as whiners. And sure, I'll give you a thumbs down!
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wow, you call us whiners?
the homosexual community are on tv everyday complaining about not being treated properly even though the president sides with them, congress sides with them, and the media sides with them.
Mormons are not eliminating their human right to be homosexual.
Mormons are protecting the sanctity of marriage and nothing else.
Uh-huh. So, you work to vote away a group's human rights and then call them whiners? Gay marriage has nothing to do with Mormon marriage and all Mormons did was show that they're intolerant. Mormons eliminated the right to marry for gay and lesbians in California. Your "right to be homosexual" comment is just offensive. Shows how insensitive you are.
Also, as far as extermination orders--how about Native Americans--some tribes actually were exterminated.
yeah the gays are whiners. they have put together a brilliant campaign claiming that gay marriage is a "right" that was taken away from them. I am mormon, and I have no problem with gays being together. The problem I have is it being used in the same way a man and a woman are united in "marriage". And gays and lesbians DO have a provision that they can legally be together. It is called CIVIL UNIONS, and most states allow this to happen. And you should really learn to shut up your bigitrous mouth
So, gays marrying desanctifies marriage? And you don't see how people find that offensive? Gay marraige has NO effect on Mormon temple marriage or any other religious or civil marriage. The Mormon church doesn't have to accept gay people into their church--just like they didn't let black men hold the priesthood till 1979 and still don't let women.
um does any other christian church allow women to hold the priesthood? jw because I was under the impression that the answer was NO. And to say that our church is racist is just plain WRONG. the founder of the church, Joseph Smith, gave his best horse to a black man for him to sell to buy his son out of slavery. And you are wrong about gays, we do allow gays, just as long as they dont act on gay tendenciesand for my rebuttal to the rest , please look to my reply to your bigitrous friend, Peter
Both the Methodists and Presbyterians have women priests. And I don't think bigitrous is a word.
You can defend the Mormon church all you want but until the church actually does something to prove they're not bigots they're going to have a problem.
@MaryJesusJoseph You have no idea what you are talking about. you don't know anything about the Priesthood, the same priesthood Jesus gave to his disciples by the laying of hands. And Marriage is sacred, ordained of God from the foundation of the world. After creating Adam and Eve, the Lord God pronounced them husband and wife, Adam said, Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
I don't know about most discriminated--but they're definitely the most passive aggressive. They go out of their way to finance a law writing discrimination into the California Constitution which takes away rights from a group of people, then when they catch some flack for their actions they cry, "everybody's picking on us."
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Thanks for everyone's comments! I don't know if it is possible for us to truly understand where the other side is coming from. What we need is a compromise. If you think about it - we wouldn't be having this conversation six years ago. Why? Civil Unions. It grants many rights to gays, without trying to enforce a law that is contrary to traditional religious beliefs. What happened since then? The answer to that question can bring us together or tear us apart. I hope the former happens.
Civil Unions are not the same as marriage. If my civil union partner and I go to another state and one of us has an accident if that state does not recognize civil unions we won't be allowed to see that partner (it just happened in FLA). There are a raft of rights that come with marriage that don't come with civil rights. What's more--we're talking about CIVIL MARRIAGE it has nothing to do with your church. Gay marriage has been legal in MASS and nothing has happened to the churches.
Also, judging by your comment (you brought up beastiality and incest) I don't think you're really interested in making things right for lesbians and gay people.
The other problem with civil unions are that they are basically "separate but equal" laws--which we all know are not equal. Obama is wrong on this as are many other Democrats.
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And Mary don't just blame the Mormon church like I've told you again we make up only 2% of California and 1% of them can vote. Yes Mormons in Utah contributed, but again there are only about 1.5 million Mormons in Utah so they still are the minority of other religions. It wasn't just us that stopped prop 8.....again Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Christian sects, African Americans....
How is allowing gay marriage enforcing it as law? People entered into polygamist marriages--gay people would enter into marriage--I don't see what your defense is supposed to mean.
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"Persecutions may rage [Keith Olbermann], mobs may combine [gay rights activists at mormon temples], armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent 'til...the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say 'The work is Done'." Persecute the church all you want but it will continue to grow and prosper. In the mean time, I will pray for you Keith in spite of how much you apparently hate us.
I'm not trying to get in a fight with you either Peter, I'm not trying to be "the bad guy" Mormons are nice people and we don't hate gays and abuse them or beat them up in anyway we are not a people like that. If they want to get married we just don't want it in our temples or churches they can get married elsewhere and that's fine with us.....the reason we've been against it is because many have threaten to marry in our temples and we as Mormons must obey federal laws....
Mormons worked to take away gay people's right to marry--soen't seem really nice. And the whole idea that Mormons would be forced to marry gay people in their temples is absurd. They don't have to marry anyone they don't want to and they never will in this country.
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Well it seems that by trying to protect our freedoms of religion others think that we are trampling their rights. Christians views are that gay people are trying to infringe religious rights. Therefore I think you should be a little more objective.
In what way is not allowing gay marriage "protecting your freedoms of religion"? Gay marriage doesn't effect your religion in any way. I think maybe it's you who needs some objectivity. Gay marriage has no effect on your religion at all.
So, Christians (and you mean Christians that agree with you because there are Christians who aren't anti-gay) believe that other people living their lives as they see fit infringes on their rights? Who needs objectivity? This is where religion goes wrong--in trying to force others to live by their standards.
You do realize that because of the Mormons actions and funding gay people in CA can no longer "get married elsewhere"--because of Prop 8 we no longer have that right here. We will gain it back and hopefully stop the same thing from happening in Maine and other states but we had that right and it was voted away by 2 percentage points. The right of gays to marry doesn't affect the Mormon church at all. The constitution prohibits the govt from imposing that on religions.
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Since traditional religious beliefs state that marriage is between a man and a woman, the "right" of gays to marry is a huge violation of separation of church and state. If prop 8 was denied, the government would be adhering to specific (anti)religious views. Being against religion is not being neutral.
Again, in what way does gays being allowed to marry effect your religion? No one is forcing any religion to perform or even to recognize gay marriage. We're talking about civil marriage--and what's more there are religions that are in favor of gay marriage--is your denying others their rights imposing on those religions?
Traditional religious beliefs should not enter into civil marriage. The "right" of gays to marry has nothing to do with the rights of religions to practice.
There are religions that want gays and lesbians to marry so in stating that gay marriage denies you your religious rights you are denying those religions their religious rights.
Just as you are not now required to marry non-members of the church or even members who don't meet your standards the church wouldn't be required to perform gay marriage. The whole idea is more misinformation from the anti-gay marriage propaganda mills. Just like the ridiculous idea that schools would be required to "teach gay marriage" whatever that means.
It seems to me there's a real disconnect here. Mormons really don't seem to understand why gay people are mad at them. The really don't think that eliminating people's rights is such a big deal. I don't know what I can say to get you to understand that. I've had problems discussing it with my family as well. They won't listen and maybe I am just unable to get my point across. It took years to get the church out of my life but then they get involved in this.
You see avgooftroop13, when you read things like the circular and strange logic of theupsidedowner (so well named)--you may think he makes perfect sense, but in reality he's completely disconnected from recent events.
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I just told you how it did effect us, we have gays in our church and we are required to follow the laws of the land given by Joseph Smith, so anything the government eventually forces on us we most obey and they eventually will force things on us because soon enough every state besides maybe Utah and Idaho will allow gays and when that happens it will be forced on us to marry in our churches.....it will happen that's why. I don't hate gays at all I hope you know none of us Mormons do.
The government cannot force you to marry anyone. This is a scare tactic. We have a constitution in the country. I've said this so many times to you that I just think you're not listening. It doesn't really matter if you hate gays or not--you've helped to take away our rights and we're angry at you for that--and we have every right to be angry at you for that. I feel like I'm going in circles with you. Neither the state nor the fed can make a church marry people.
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Good comment. However, there is a difference between adhering to the constitution and merely having a constitution. For example, executive orders. This is an order made by the president without any approval from congress. It is a blatant contradiction of the congress, yet it is still used.
So, you think a President is going to issue an executive order to force Mormons to marry gay people in their temples? Even then it would be challenged and defeated by the church. It's just another scare tactic.
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So is putting words in others' mouths. I didn't say what the president WOULD do, I was just commenting that the mere fact of having a constitution is not a guarantee for freedoms. We must live the constitution - I think you were getting at this, in an indirect way. Please don't put words into my mouth. Let's keep it respectful. Thanks
You brought up executive orders so they were your words. Your argument seems to be some slippery sloap theory that IF gay people are allowed to marry something might happen--and having a constitution is the best anyone can do to guarantee religious freedom. The idea that people should be denied human rights based on the fear that something might happen is just ridiculous.
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I see your poing, and that doesn't mean somebody can change the constitution, Obama has already said our country is going to change so it still could happen. But I do see your poing I do listen to you, if you want to marry that's fine as long as it doesn't effect our temples and churches. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just know it could happen
I would fight as hard as you would to prevent the government from telling any church that it had to marry people. If this did come up in the future it would be our responsibility as citizens to stop it. A lot of things could happen--a religion could try to set up a theocracy and I would fight that as much as I would the govt trying to tell religions what to do. But, denying people's rights because someone in the future might try to do something is just wrong.
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I feel that is where the straw man comes in - I never postulated that I am fighting for what will happen in the future. I really appreciate your words here, you have a great point. From my perspective, just the very act of legalizing something contrary to religious beliefs is unconstitutionalism. So its not what will come from the law, but the law itself. From my opinion.
Ah--you must either be a high school debator or a cable news channel pundit. Confuse people with circular logic, say they've hurt your feelings to try to shame them into giving ground, then say they mischaracterized your argument when they haven't. "Legalizing something contrary to my religious beliefs is unconstitutional"... Wow--that says it all. We all have to do what you say and there is no wall between church and state. I'm glad you don't rule the country.
@PeterOrszagCallMe Sir read the first amendment it says as following : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Seperation of church and state has never been a law, it was a phrase coined by Thomas Jeffreson in a letter to the Danbury Baptist assocciation in 1802
All your points were about what could possibly happen in the future. You've still never shown anything that could damage your rights by allowing gay people to marry. Do you know what a straw man is?
A straw man argument is when you make up a foolish argument--attribute it to your opponent then knock it down. I was refuting arguments that were made. You're off the wall here.
I definately see your point you make a good argument with what you said at the end and I appreciate you seeing my side of things too. I really do think something should be worked out that can make the groups a little happier. See I think the Mormons are a lot more on your side then you think compared to other religions. Sure they are against Gay marriage, but we know people have their own free agency to do what they please and we also just want peace as you do.
If you think it's fine that if I want to marry it's fine then don't contribute to things like Prop 8 and try to get the church to stop contributing. While it's true that Mormons make up a small portion of the voters in CA and other states they contributed a lot of money to the campaign--and those ads were full of lies and misinformation.
Your right some of them probably were, but the same also goes for what people said about Mormon missonaries in their ads. Mormon missionaries would never be allowed to walk into somebodys house and rip their marriage licenses up like the ads said or force somebody to give up all the rights. Mormon missionaries never act that way or. I definately see your side and I feel bad for the way you have been treated. Nobody should be mistreated for their beliefs Mormon or Gay
You're talking about a single ad that was in response to the many, many ads put out by NOM and various other anti-gay groups that were partly funded by donations from members of the LDS church. It was over the top, but it also was meant as an alegory--not to be taken literally. The point was that a religious group from outside the state was financing a law to take away the rights of Gay & Lesbian California Citizens. And if those groups had their way those licenses would have been void.
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What church is "The Church of Latter Day Saints?" He forgot that "Jesus Christ" part. Shocking.
Olbermann is full of hate for anyone who doesn't have radical liberal viewpoints. He's completely out of touch with our founding fathers, the constitution and most Americans. Unfortunately for him, his jealosy of guys like O'Reilly and Beck is becoming more and more transparent everyday. There's a reason people watch them and not you, Keith. Let go of your hate.
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Frickface I totally agree with you, but be on our side of things with our church I can tell you are a Christian, but do not like the Mormons because we are supposablly "Not Mormon" even though we believe in Christ? But hey let's come together on this. All Christian churches need to come together in a time like this and forget their differences. We are different, but we have the same goal in mind.
Could you please cite specifically from my post what exactly prompts you to believe that I "do not like the Mormons"? Mormons are good folk by and large.
I stayed with you--the logic that for gay to be right it would reproduce is idiotic. The idea that the standard for the "rightness" of something is that it can reproduce is just idiotic. I know you're not very bright so I don't expect you to get it, but your comment is really, really stupid.
I don't "no" you? Your comment was stupid. So, you believe that "gay" can be singled out of everything else and condemned because it doesn't reproduce. It's stupid, and even if I did "no" you it would still be stupid.
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i dont care if you like the way i type im sure u get what im trying to say so dont complain. singled out of everything else? its being singled out from 1 thing and that is straight people marriage. what "everything else" r u talkin about?
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And everyone the main reason Mormons are against Gay Marriage doesn't necasarilly have to do with the "Bible" it has to do with protecting our temples and churches from Gay ceremonies. We could care less if they get married somewhere else and legalize it we just don't want to be forced to do it in our churches and if we don't comply we might get our tax exempt taken from us. Seriously we don't hate gays, we think they should have equal rights too. We just don't want them in our temples.
The Mormon church is a private institution, the idea that they would be forced to have to perform gay marriage is idiotic. The church doesn't have to marry anyone it doesn't want to. We're talking about civil ceremonies here--it has nothing to do with your church.
No MaryJesusJoseph we could be forced into marrying gay people. That is something we fear because we are taught to follow all the laws of the land and if even one person goes to court against us in this case when they legalize gay marriage countrywide then we will be forced to marry gays, and if we refuse to do so we will have our tax exempt taken from us. Bytheway what are you? Are you a Christian or anti-Christian I can't tell your name's confusing.
Jumping in, that's bullshit. The government can't enact a law saying how religions practice--haven't you read the Constitution? It sounds like you've been listening to those lying ads the Mormon church helped pay for.
Yea Peter I know they can't but that doesn't mean we haven't changed ammendments before, it still can happen we've changed lots of things in the past in our country and the government did already come to Salt Lake City to threaten us that they would step in and take action on us I'm not lying about that. We threaten them back saying we wouldn't help so much with the U.S. welfare program which we contribute a lot to......
It's not an amendment it's in the constitution. And if the church hadn't dishonestly contributed facilities and such to the Prop 8 campaign they wouldn't be in trouble for their tax exempt status. Mormons aren't the victims here--gay people had their rights taken away.
It's been explained to you over and over again that the govt can't make the LDS church marry gay people but you just don't want to believe it. As to what I am, I'm not anti-Christian, but I think Christians do a lot of things that aren't very Christlike. Christ didn't say anything about gay people. I think Christianity has become too much about what other people are doing and not enough about staying true to your own ethics.
excuse me maybe you should listen to the whole speach. Oaks knows what he is talking about he was a judge. and I think he might be a law professor too. his focus is on peoples right to free speach and religion without being discriminated
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Bytheway I'm a student at BYU-Idaho and I went to this talk last week and he twisted some of the things that Elder Oaks really said, and at the beginning of the speech Elder Oaks even told us that the world was going to be watching this talk and he was going to be ridiculed for it! He even prophesized of our persecution just for his speech! Wow!
Wow! You know, I "prophesized" that I would walk into a biker bar and call someone a knuckle dragging piece of shit he would beat me up--and you know what--it happened! I must be divinely inspired!
Wow MaryJesusJoseph you sound really bitter and mad. Surely your youtube name doesn't match with your content. I think it's just interesting how this was a devotional given in REXBURG IDAHO out in the middle of nowhere and it somehow made it out!!! Who wastes there time looking for things like this anyways they must have no life or they try and make the good look bad to gain power.
What's your point? Since the devotional was given in Rexburg Idaho (I have been there by the way) it shouldn't be commented on? In this age of cell phones with cameras and tiny recording devices nothing stays quiet.
ok you have said a lot for some one who so obviously didnt read the talk. he says at the very begining that he knows it is going to be every where and that he is speaking to the world
And bytheway it's a private University Mary JesusJospeh so they have no right to tell us what we can and can't say that's what makes it PRIVATE!!! If it was at a normal state school then I can understand their point, but they have no right especially when the school is already 99.8% Mormon and 100% against Gay marriage.
I grew up 7 miles from BYU in Provo so I know what these institutions are--I'm not sure why you're telling me this since it has nothing to do with what I said. Did BYU Idaho used to be Rick's college? I almost went to school there. Who is trying to tell you what you can and can't say? I'm not sure what your point is.
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this guy cracks me up. he's didnt get the name of the church right, he didnt even get the name of the university right, and he didnt have a valid argument. By the way, no matter what is said or done to the church, we will stand strong and nothing will bring it down. if the death of Joseph Smith didnt end it, nothing else will, not even this pathetic guy that doesnt even have his facts right.
He was using ONE of the original names for the LDS Church. Think of all the names your church has had: The Church of Christ, The Church of the Latter-day Saints....don't blame people if they can't keep up with what you are calling yourselves this week.
No one is trying to bring down your church. 99% of the public doesn't even care about Mormonism
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Get your facts right. The Church of Christ and the Church of the Latter Day Saints were never names of our church. If you are reffering to the Reorganized Church then that has nothing to do with us.
ok is so why are you comenting. and just so you know the church of jesus christ of latter day saints has been the official name of the church since the 1830's it hasnt changed
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You are so right Keith Olberman, we should definitely listen to your advise night in and night out, because you have that ever prestigious B.A. in communications. That gives you every right to tell a man who has a JD from the number 6 law school in the country and was twice considered for the US Supreme court, to shut the hell up.
Shouldn't you be covering sports, oh wait thats right you have been fired from just about every sports new station in the country.
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In formal reasoning there is a name for this kind of attack; it is called ad hominem, which means "to the man." It is an attack on the individual who presents an argument with which one does not agree, rather than a reasoned rebuttal of the argument itself. Ad hominem attacks are irrelevant; if this man disagrees with these people, he should put forth a reasoned argument, not a blatant fallacy enshrined in J.S. Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.
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People's issue with Dallin H. Oaks's speech seems to be his comparison of the protests and vandalism against the LDS church after Prop 8 to similar outbreaks against civil rights activists during that movement. While it's true that the civil rights violence was much, much worse, Oaks's point was that the principle is the same. A group of people is being terrorized for exercising their legal rights. The degree of violence is irrelevent; the principle remains the same.
I feel so sorry for them, they went out of their way to deny others the legal rights that they did have and now people are mad at them. Mormons aren't the victims here.
And the amount of lies in the pro-prop 8 campaign and the anti-gay marriage campaign in Maine shows how shallow the reasoning of the anti-gay marriage movement is.
Yes, and all they did was work to take away the human rights of a group of American citizens--that's not an extreme example--it's what the LDS church did. They've also been using various methods to try to make gay people straight for years--sure they stopped using shock therapy but they did use it in the past.
Let me get this straight. A billion dollar multinational corporation calling itself a church goes out of it's way to get involved in denying another group a basic right enjoyed by the majority and now it's members can't understand why members of that group would be mad?
You write: "The degree of violence is irrelevent; the principle remains the same." Well hell, don't stop there! Tell the world that the protests and vandalism were like what the Jews went through in the holocaust.
I'm glad this guy is only on a cable channel that no one cares or knows about...
mrjercan2 3 days ago
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Congress is considering passing a bill by the name of Bill S.978 in a couple of weeks, that of which shut down all livestreams and let's plays! It will ruin the artist community dedicated towards creating fan art for their favorite movie, TV show, videogame, music group, etc. Artists that merely wish to express their interest in copyrighted material cannot. Please act! Thumbs up this comment to magnify this problem! This may become the end of youtube!
onlyweknow2 7 months ago
@PeterOrszagCallMe I like that you ignorantly use quotes as if doing so actually makes a person have said something they did not literally say. All while attacking the credibility of other debaters. My guess is that you know little about the constitution, the shear lack of a constitutionally supported "wall between church and state" (see what I did there, I use quotes to quote something you ACTUALLY said) not to mention the lack of a 'Power to regulate interpersonal relationships' clause.
Xials 1 year ago
@DustinJolley wow, that is so terrible. Don't you understand he did it just to piss off the theotards?
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
I love the fact that more people hit dislike than like on Olbermann. I congratulate the youtube community for their ability to sniff out B.S. like this message.
silkentwilight11 1 year ago
@silkentwilight11 Yes all the Mormons lowlifes came out from under their rocks to attack him since Olby attacked their moron idols.
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
@EsClayWilson Don't feed the trolls, kids.
silkentwilight11 1 year ago
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@EsClayWilson Don't feed the troll, kids.
silkentwilight11 1 year ago
How about Nancy Pelosi spending Americans' money on socialistic health plans, or Barack Obama supporting a mosque for a religion that attacked us, treats women as slaves, and executes homosexuals?
primogennaio 1 year ago
@primogennaio You're right, we need to spend more money on unnecessary wars and help rich megalomaniac televangelist build more churches rather than waste tax money on sissy health care or let someone build a mosque where he wants like everyone else.
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
P.S. Olbermann has the absolute worst ratings in Cable news for 3 years running, I wouldn't worry too much about what he says or get in arguments about him :)
lorenzschuerch 1 year ago
I think it's awesome how Olbermann has the guts to attack Dallin Oaks on law issues :) Olbermann = stupid idiot who got fired from ESPN Dallin Oaks: Lawyer and law professor for 20 years, helped draft the bill of rights of Illinois in 1970, and justice on Utah Supreme Court. Hmm...I wonder who knows more about American Law...that's a tough one!
lorenzschuerch 1 year ago
I have no problem with Olby calling a white trash bigot like that Mormon scumbag out. You support him cause you are a bigoted piece of Xtian trash like he is. Legal training or not, the guy is scum. After all, Hitler had distinguished judges and lawyers who helped draft & enforce the Nuremberg laws, You are just another gay hating lowlife scum who hides behind some backwards redneck religious drivel.
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
Olbermann is such a freak
biggrex 1 year ago
Olberman = lame.
Only gets views when he fucks with the"big dawgs".
SwollenCranium 1 year ago
@SwollenCranium You seem to be cutting and pasting the same comment in several threads. How.... revealing.
Darkmind1970 1 year ago
No wonder this dude is on MSNBC he is a complete moron, Fox news is the Only News channel u can trust cuz they actually give u FACTS not a bunch of BS. All of the Liberal news sations like MSNBC and CNN praise Obama for what hes doing even though he is slowly leading this country to Hell
Metaldude2022 1 year ago
Umm... this guy is a total idiot for thinking that Elder Oaks is the Worst. He used to be a Supreme Justice so he knows the law
Metaldude2022 1 year ago
Keith has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to the Mormon religion(and probably any religion for that matter). Someone tell keith to shut his face! haha After watching this I realize why his ratings are so bad.
mhale86 2 years ago
that's not what Keith is saying...he's not talking about the Mormon religion, he's talking about it's history. Read a book you idiot. We had a war with the Mormons. Maybe someone should tell you to shut your face..
doolin11 1 year ago
@mhale86 So go to FOX so you can havejerks like palin, huckabee, beck, and hume there to jerk off the simple minded theo-saps
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
@EsClayWilson after reading your erroneous and hatred-filled comments I am surprised by your bigotry after claiming that the mormons are bigots. I think that is called hypocrisy. just saying....
mhale86 1 year ago
@mhale86 what exactly is erroneous? Mormonism had a built in racist theology that was repudiated only 32 years ago? That most Mormons I met, after they went through their fake friendly Dale Carnegie salesman front, ended up being totally bigoted against all other faiths & arseheads too? That Mormonism was popular in Germany. That the LDS was the driving force behind Prop 8? When you Mormons go around selling your phony crap, did it occur to you that is a slight against the victim's faith.
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
@EsClayWilson bigotry plain and simple! haha your comments define bigotry! It seems like you are singling out mormons because you have had a few bad examples with them. And if they weren't mormons then what would you do? come onto youtube and find videos that hate people in general and comment on those??? you are classic. How are they reacist? because for almost 170 years they have been anti-slavery. racism is hatred towards a particular race or many.
mhale86 1 year ago
@EsClayWilson The mormons did not show any hatred towards a particular race. now they did not allow them to hold the priesthood but could partake in every part of church services. Do you see where you are erroneous?
mhale86 1 year ago
MaryJesusJoseph... WAY TO GO! REPRESENTIN!
theamazingchris90 2 years ago
Oh and not to mention, you say mormons took away the "right" of gays to marry. I believe somewhere around 80% of blacks voted YES on Prop 8. I don't see you ripping on blacks for being against gay marriage, or any protests at the NAACP, or desecrating important black monuments. Just saying, the PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA made this decision, not the mormons
wildeone121 2 years ago
So your point is that "they did too?"
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
Also, the NAACP of CA was against Prop 8 so it would be stupid to protest at the NAACP.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
@wildeone121:
The NAACP publicly denounced Prop 8.
Also, the 60s Civil Rights movement proved that overturning institutional discrimination is a slow process and initially unpopular with the majority (in California a VERY SLIGHT majority). One does not attack the public but the entrenched bigot institutions who are the strongholds of intolerance. THE PEOPLE are not necessarily set out to ban fair marriage, but are largely unsure of changing the status quo BLAME THE MORMON CHURCH.
marksfox 2 years ago
@wildeone121 its a lot easier to blame the mormons than blame black people. keith olbermann is an idiot though. The only guy i like on that channel is jack cafferty.
wmarcus1203 1 year ago
@wmarcus1203 Why not blame the Mormons? The Mormons were a driving force behind Prop 8 while the NAACP wasn't
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
@EsClayWilson Well in general Black's are very anti gay. The left in california Bussed new black voters to the voting polls for the historic election and they also voted against prop 8. It's the voter that caused prop 8. not the mormons.
wmarcus1203 1 year ago
Can someone tell MaryJesusJoseph to get a job or a daytime talk show? Way too much time on this subject.
Olberman is at the bottom of the ratings for a reason.
brnrms 2 years ago
Why do you care what I do?
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
I don't. Don't flatter yourself.
brnrms 2 years ago
If this is not the pot calling the kettle black. I will bitch slap Keith one day. Fox news actually reports the news.
BIKERJAKE74 2 years ago
@BIKERJAKE74 No sir, FOX is just better at jerking off low class ignorant trash
EsClayWilson 1 year ago
Blerg
alfrederick11 2 years ago
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mcorywyatt2 2 years ago
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what a huge loser keith is. Your face looks like your ass threw up.
tym29 2 years ago
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i think that the whole prop 8 thing was missunderstood. Mormons are not anti gay. Mormons believe that giving gays a right to marry infringes on religious freedom. They feel that if this passes, then eventually the government will make churches participate in gay mairrage.
The funny thing is, all (legit) Christian religions are against gay rights, so its stupid to blame it on the mormons. Obviousley a ton of people are against gay marraige, so its stupid to blame it on the mormons.
mrloughran 2 years ago
How does any of that not make them anti gay? As a matter of fact, you seem to be claiming all Christian religions are anti-gay, and you sound anti-gay yourself. So why do you think you have any credibility?
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 9
Whatever Mormons feel they need to get a reality check. Gay marriages in no way infringe on religious freedom. Do Jewish, Muslim, Baptist etc... marriages also infringe on Mormon's freedom? In fact just like all of these, gay marriages would have no effect whatsoever on Mormon marriages. The marriages of other people have nothing to do with Mormon marriages. Also, after the history of Mormons with gay people it's stupid to claim that the Mormon church isn't anti-gay.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
Also, a funny thing--most Christian religions wouldn't consider the LDS church legit.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
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Keith olberman is worthless.
Dallin Oaks is a great and respectable man.
Olberman will be in hell soon enough.
viperdawg41192 2 years ago
Dallin Oaks comparing Mormons to blacks during the civil rights movement is idiotic. Especially considering black men couldn't even hold the priesthood till 1979--well after tha civil rights movement had started.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 4
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you might no realize this. but the Mormons have been the most discriminated minority in the United States since the church was started. Much more discriminated than the blacks ever were.
viperdawg41192 2 years ago
Yeah, 'cause just like the blacks they were enslaved and considered two thirds a person--except--no they weren't.
This is why we can't take Mormons seriously. Whatever happened at the beginnings of the church the Mormons are now the persecutors--not the victims.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 3
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they weren't enslaved, but there was an extermination order sent out on the Mormons. Let me repeat that, there was an EXTERMINATION order sent against the Mormons.
Never in the history of the United States has there been an order to kill all the blacks.
The Mormons are discriminated much more than any other religion in the United States and more than any ethnic group.
Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, but you know it's true.
Most Christian churches oppose gay marriage.
viperdawg41192 2 years ago
Still doesn't rise to the level of blacks. They were considered property and could be killed by their owners. The fact that most Christian churches oppose gay marriage doesn't excuse the Mormons funding the elimination of the human rights of gay & lesbian people in California. And the idea that Mormons are more discriminated against that any ethnic or sexual minority is idiotic. You just come off as whiners. And sure, I'll give you a thumbs down!
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 3
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wow, you call us whiners?
the homosexual community are on tv everyday complaining about not being treated properly even though the president sides with them, congress sides with them, and the media sides with them.
Mormons are not eliminating their human right to be homosexual.
Mormons are protecting the sanctity of marriage and nothing else.
viperdawg41192 2 years ago
Uh-huh. So, you work to vote away a group's human rights and then call them whiners? Gay marriage has nothing to do with Mormon marriage and all Mormons did was show that they're intolerant. Mormons eliminated the right to marry for gay and lesbians in California. Your "right to be homosexual" comment is just offensive. Shows how insensitive you are.
Also, as far as extermination orders--how about Native Americans--some tribes actually were exterminated.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 3
yeah the gays are whiners. they have put together a brilliant campaign claiming that gay marriage is a "right" that was taken away from them. I am mormon, and I have no problem with gays being together. The problem I have is it being used in the same way a man and a woman are united in "marriage". And gays and lesbians DO have a provision that they can legally be together. It is called CIVIL UNIONS, and most states allow this to happen. And you should really learn to shut up your bigitrous mouth
wildeone121 2 years ago
So, gays marrying desanctifies marriage? And you don't see how people find that offensive? Gay marraige has NO effect on Mormon temple marriage or any other religious or civil marriage. The Mormon church doesn't have to accept gay people into their church--just like they didn't let black men hold the priesthood till 1979 and still don't let women.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
um does any other christian church allow women to hold the priesthood? jw because I was under the impression that the answer was NO. And to say that our church is racist is just plain WRONG. the founder of the church, Joseph Smith, gave his best horse to a black man for him to sell to buy his son out of slavery. And you are wrong about gays, we do allow gays, just as long as they dont act on gay tendenciesand for my rebuttal to the rest , please look to my reply to your bigitrous friend, Peter
wildeone121 2 years ago
Both the Methodists and Presbyterians have women priests. And I don't think bigitrous is a word.
You can defend the Mormon church all you want but until the church actually does something to prove they're not bigots they're going to have a problem.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
@MaryJesusJoseph You have no idea what you are talking about. you don't know anything about the Priesthood, the same priesthood Jesus gave to his disciples by the laying of hands. And Marriage is sacred, ordained of God from the foundation of the world. After creating Adam and Eve, the Lord God pronounced them husband and wife, Adam said, Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
wmarcus1203 1 year ago
@wmarcus1203 Bullshit you dumbass--I was raised Mormon and probably know more about your misguided church than you.
MaryJesusJoseph 1 year ago
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mcorywyatt2 2 years ago
I don't know about most discriminated--but they're definitely the most passive aggressive. They go out of their way to finance a law writing discrimination into the California Constitution which takes away rights from a group of people, then when they catch some flack for their actions they cry, "everybody's picking on us."
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
True, but cannot stand them.
BIKERJAKE74 2 years ago
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Thanks for everyone's comments! I don't know if it is possible for us to truly understand where the other side is coming from. What we need is a compromise. If you think about it - we wouldn't be having this conversation six years ago. Why? Civil Unions. It grants many rights to gays, without trying to enforce a law that is contrary to traditional religious beliefs. What happened since then? The answer to that question can bring us together or tear us apart. I hope the former happens.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
Civil Unions are not the same as marriage. If my civil union partner and I go to another state and one of us has an accident if that state does not recognize civil unions we won't be allowed to see that partner (it just happened in FLA). There are a raft of rights that come with marriage that don't come with civil rights. What's more--we're talking about CIVIL MARRIAGE it has nothing to do with your church. Gay marriage has been legal in MASS and nothing has happened to the churches.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 4
Also, judging by your comment (you brought up beastiality and incest) I don't think you're really interested in making things right for lesbians and gay people.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
The other problem with civil unions are that they are basically "separate but equal" laws--which we all know are not equal. Obama is wrong on this as are many other Democrats.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
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And Mary don't just blame the Mormon church like I've told you again we make up only 2% of California and 1% of them can vote. Yes Mormons in Utah contributed, but again there are only about 1.5 million Mormons in Utah so they still are the minority of other religions. It wasn't just us that stopped prop 8.....again Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Christian sects, African Americans....
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
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It is true that we once practiced polygamy, but we never tried to enforce polygamy as a law!
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
How is allowing gay marriage enforcing it as law? People entered into polygamist marriages--gay people would enter into marriage--I don't see what your defense is supposed to mean.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 4
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"Persecutions may rage [Keith Olbermann], mobs may combine [gay rights activists at mormon temples], armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent 'til...the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the Great Jehovah shall say 'The work is Done'." Persecute the church all you want but it will continue to grow and prosper. In the mean time, I will pray for you Keith in spite of how much you apparently hate us.
swensation55 2 years ago
I'm not trying to get in a fight with you either Peter, I'm not trying to be "the bad guy" Mormons are nice people and we don't hate gays and abuse them or beat them up in anyway we are not a people like that. If they want to get married we just don't want it in our temples or churches they can get married elsewhere and that's fine with us.....the reason we've been against it is because many have threaten to marry in our temples and we as Mormons must obey federal laws....
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Mormons worked to take away gay people's right to marry--soen't seem really nice. And the whole idea that Mormons would be forced to marry gay people in their temples is absurd. They don't have to marry anyone they don't want to and they never will in this country.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 8
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Well it seems that by trying to protect our freedoms of religion others think that we are trampling their rights. Christians views are that gay people are trying to infringe religious rights. Therefore I think you should be a little more objective.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
In what way is not allowing gay marriage "protecting your freedoms of religion"? Gay marriage doesn't effect your religion in any way. I think maybe it's you who needs some objectivity. Gay marriage has no effect on your religion at all.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
So, Christians (and you mean Christians that agree with you because there are Christians who aren't anti-gay) believe that other people living their lives as they see fit infringes on their rights? Who needs objectivity? This is where religion goes wrong--in trying to force others to live by their standards.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 6
You do realize that because of the Mormons actions and funding gay people in CA can no longer "get married elsewhere"--because of Prop 8 we no longer have that right here. We will gain it back and hopefully stop the same thing from happening in Maine and other states but we had that right and it was voted away by 2 percentage points. The right of gays to marry doesn't affect the Mormon church at all. The constitution prohibits the govt from imposing that on religions.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
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Since traditional religious beliefs state that marriage is between a man and a woman, the "right" of gays to marry is a huge violation of separation of church and state. If prop 8 was denied, the government would be adhering to specific (anti)religious views. Being against religion is not being neutral.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
Again, in what way does gays being allowed to marry effect your religion? No one is forcing any religion to perform or even to recognize gay marriage. We're talking about civil marriage--and what's more there are religions that are in favor of gay marriage--is your denying others their rights imposing on those religions?
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
Traditional religious beliefs should not enter into civil marriage. The "right" of gays to marry has nothing to do with the rights of religions to practice.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
There are religions that want gays and lesbians to marry so in stating that gay marriage denies you your religious rights you are denying those religions their religious rights.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
Just as you are not now required to marry non-members of the church or even members who don't meet your standards the church wouldn't be required to perform gay marriage. The whole idea is more misinformation from the anti-gay marriage propaganda mills. Just like the ridiculous idea that schools would be required to "teach gay marriage" whatever that means.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 5
It seems to me there's a real disconnect here. Mormons really don't seem to understand why gay people are mad at them. The really don't think that eliminating people's rights is such a big deal. I don't know what I can say to get you to understand that. I've had problems discussing it with my family as well. They won't listen and maybe I am just unable to get my point across. It took years to get the church out of my life but then they get involved in this.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 4
You see avgooftroop13, when you read things like the circular and strange logic of theupsidedowner (so well named)--you may think he makes perfect sense, but in reality he's completely disconnected from recent events.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 4
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I just told you how it did effect us, we have gays in our church and we are required to follow the laws of the land given by Joseph Smith, so anything the government eventually forces on us we most obey and they eventually will force things on us because soon enough every state besides maybe Utah and Idaho will allow gays and when that happens it will be forced on us to marry in our churches.....it will happen that's why. I don't hate gays at all I hope you know none of us Mormons do.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
The government cannot force you to marry anyone. This is a scare tactic. We have a constitution in the country. I've said this so many times to you that I just think you're not listening. It doesn't really matter if you hate gays or not--you've helped to take away our rights and we're angry at you for that--and we have every right to be angry at you for that. I feel like I'm going in circles with you. Neither the state nor the fed can make a church marry people.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 4
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Good comment. However, there is a difference between adhering to the constitution and merely having a constitution. For example, executive orders. This is an order made by the president without any approval from congress. It is a blatant contradiction of the congress, yet it is still used.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
So, you think a President is going to issue an executive order to force Mormons to marry gay people in their temples? Even then it would be challenged and defeated by the church. It's just another scare tactic.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
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So is putting words in others' mouths. I didn't say what the president WOULD do, I was just commenting that the mere fact of having a constitution is not a guarantee for freedoms. We must live the constitution - I think you were getting at this, in an indirect way. Please don't put words into my mouth. Let's keep it respectful. Thanks
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
You brought up executive orders so they were your words. Your argument seems to be some slippery sloap theory that IF gay people are allowed to marry something might happen--and having a constitution is the best anyone can do to guarantee religious freedom. The idea that people should be denied human rights based on the fear that something might happen is just ridiculous.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
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You just fell into the "straw man" logical fallacy.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
In what way? Where did I build a straw man? I think I pretty much represented your argument.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
I do apologize, it wasn't you who brought up beastiality and incest, it was "frickface".
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
I think you could attempt to split that hair a little more. Mary's summation of your point seemed right on.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 5
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I see your poing, and that doesn't mean somebody can change the constitution, Obama has already said our country is going to change so it still could happen. But I do see your poing I do listen to you, if you want to marry that's fine as long as it doesn't effect our temples and churches. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just know it could happen
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
I would fight as hard as you would to prevent the government from telling any church that it had to marry people. If this did come up in the future it would be our responsibility as citizens to stop it. A lot of things could happen--a religion could try to set up a theocracy and I would fight that as much as I would the govt trying to tell religions what to do. But, denying people's rights because someone in the future might try to do something is just wrong.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
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I feel that is where the straw man comes in - I never postulated that I am fighting for what will happen in the future. I really appreciate your words here, you have a great point. From my perspective, just the very act of legalizing something contrary to religious beliefs is unconstitutionalism. So its not what will come from the law, but the law itself. From my opinion.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
Ah--you must either be a high school debator or a cable news channel pundit. Confuse people with circular logic, say they've hurt your feelings to try to shame them into giving ground, then say they mischaracterized your argument when they haven't. "Legalizing something contrary to my religious beliefs is unconstitutional"... Wow--that says it all. We all have to do what you say and there is no wall between church and state. I'm glad you don't rule the country.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 7
@PeterOrszagCallMe Sir read the first amendment it says as following : "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Seperation of church and state has never been a law, it was a phrase coined by Thomas Jeffreson in a letter to the Danbury Baptist assocciation in 1802
nathantylersturgill 1 year ago
@PeterOrszagCallMe So no technically there has never been a wall between church and state, I rest my case.
nathantylersturgill 1 year ago
All your points were about what could possibly happen in the future. You've still never shown anything that could damage your rights by allowing gay people to marry. Do you know what a straw man is?
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 6
A straw man argument is when you make up a foolish argument--attribute it to your opponent then knock it down. I was refuting arguments that were made. You're off the wall here.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
Ah Mary, I admire you for trying but you remind me of St. Anthony, the patron saint of lost causes. There's no changing these people's minds.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 6
I definately see your point you make a good argument with what you said at the end and I appreciate you seeing my side of things too. I really do think something should be worked out that can make the groups a little happier. See I think the Mormons are a lot more on your side then you think compared to other religions. Sure they are against Gay marriage, but we know people have their own free agency to do what they please and we also just want peace as you do.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
If you think it's fine that if I want to marry it's fine then don't contribute to things like Prop 8 and try to get the church to stop contributing. While it's true that Mormons make up a small portion of the voters in CA and other states they contributed a lot of money to the campaign--and those ads were full of lies and misinformation.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
Your right some of them probably were, but the same also goes for what people said about Mormon missonaries in their ads. Mormon missionaries would never be allowed to walk into somebodys house and rip their marriage licenses up like the ads said or force somebody to give up all the rights. Mormon missionaries never act that way or. I definately see your side and I feel bad for the way you have been treated. Nobody should be mistreated for their beliefs Mormon or Gay
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
You're talking about a single ad that was in response to the many, many ads put out by NOM and various other anti-gay groups that were partly funded by donations from members of the LDS church. It was over the top, but it also was meant as an alegory--not to be taken literally. The point was that a religious group from outside the state was financing a law to take away the rights of Gay & Lesbian California Citizens. And if those groups had their way those licenses would have been void.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
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I am perfectly capable of talking with proper grammar. i just choose not 2. and just cuz you dont have anything 2 say 2 it.
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
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What church is "The Church of Latter Day Saints?" He forgot that "Jesus Christ" part. Shocking.
Olbermann is full of hate for anyone who doesn't have radical liberal viewpoints. He's completely out of touch with our founding fathers, the constitution and most Americans. Unfortunately for him, his jealosy of guys like O'Reilly and Beck is becoming more and more transparent everyday. There's a reason people watch them and not you, Keith. Let go of your hate.
frickface1 2 years ago
Oh yes, he got the name wrong--that shows everything he said is wrong. Really, this point keeps getting made and it's kind of silly.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
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Frickface I totally agree with you, but be on our side of things with our church I can tell you are a Christian, but do not like the Mormons because we are supposablly "Not Mormon" even though we believe in Christ? But hey let's come together on this. All Christian churches need to come together in a time like this and forget their differences. We are different, but we have the same goal in mind.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Yeah, all Christian churches need to gang up on gay people. It's what Jesus would do.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
Its un christian for churches to persecute others, true. But when others rage against us, it is completely ok...
Think through things a little more before you post, please.
theupsidedowner 2 years ago
Because you didn't do anything to deserve their rage? Again, this shows how removed from reality Mormons are.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
Could you please cite specifically from my post what exactly prompts you to believe that I "do not like the Mormons"? Mormons are good folk by and large.
frickface1 2 years ago
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If being gay was right then they would b able 2 REPRODUCE.
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
That's one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. You must be a Beck fan!
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
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how is it stupid?
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
For something to be right it has to reproduce? That's idiotic.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
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i didnt say for something 2 b right i said for gays 2 b right they would b able 2reproduce. try 2 stay with me. now how is what i said stupid?
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
I stayed with you--the logic that for gay to be right it would reproduce is idiotic. The idea that the standard for the "rightness" of something is that it can reproduce is just idiotic. I know you're not very bright so I don't expect you to get it, but your comment is really, really stupid.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
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u dont no me. try explaining that? and its not just something it is 1 specific thing that we r talking about. not hard to comprehend.
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
I don't "no" you? Your comment was stupid. So, you believe that "gay" can be singled out of everything else and condemned because it doesn't reproduce. It's stupid, and even if I did "no" you it would still be stupid.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 3
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i dont care if you like the way i type im sure u get what im trying to say so dont complain. singled out of everything else? its being singled out from 1 thing and that is straight people marriage. what "everything else" r u talkin about?
bobbyrobertss 2 years ago
Mary---I don't think there's much point talking to this guy--it's either drugs or short bus.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 5
You're right. bobbyrobertss first statement was so idiotic I commented but there are times it's better to let things go.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
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And everyone the main reason Mormons are against Gay Marriage doesn't necasarilly have to do with the "Bible" it has to do with protecting our temples and churches from Gay ceremonies. We could care less if they get married somewhere else and legalize it we just don't want to be forced to do it in our churches and if we don't comply we might get our tax exempt taken from us. Seriously we don't hate gays, we think they should have equal rights too. We just don't want them in our temples.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
The Mormon church is a private institution, the idea that they would be forced to have to perform gay marriage is idiotic. The church doesn't have to marry anyone it doesn't want to. We're talking about civil ceremonies here--it has nothing to do with your church.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
No MaryJesusJoseph we could be forced into marrying gay people. That is something we fear because we are taught to follow all the laws of the land and if even one person goes to court against us in this case when they legalize gay marriage countrywide then we will be forced to marry gays, and if we refuse to do so we will have our tax exempt taken from us. Bytheway what are you? Are you a Christian or anti-Christian I can't tell your name's confusing.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Comment removed
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago
Jumping in, that's bullshit. The government can't enact a law saying how religions practice--haven't you read the Constitution? It sounds like you've been listening to those lying ads the Mormon church helped pay for.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 4
Yea Peter I know they can't but that doesn't mean we haven't changed ammendments before, it still can happen we've changed lots of things in the past in our country and the government did already come to Salt Lake City to threaten us that they would step in and take action on us I'm not lying about that. We threaten them back saying we wouldn't help so much with the U.S. welfare program which we contribute a lot to......
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
It's not an amendment it's in the constitution. And if the church hadn't dishonestly contributed facilities and such to the Prop 8 campaign they wouldn't be in trouble for their tax exempt status. Mormons aren't the victims here--gay people had their rights taken away.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 3
It's been explained to you over and over again that the govt can't make the LDS church marry gay people but you just don't want to believe it. As to what I am, I'm not anti-Christian, but I think Christians do a lot of things that aren't very Christlike. Christ didn't say anything about gay people. I think Christianity has become too much about what other people are doing and not enough about staying true to your own ethics.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
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dbmules 2 years ago
Doesn't Oaks see that he's shooting himself in the foot? The hypocrisy is too much to bear!!!
sycocoaster 2 years ago 5
excuse me maybe you should listen to the whole speach. Oaks knows what he is talking about he was a judge. and I think he might be a law professor too. his focus is on peoples right to free speach and religion without being discriminated
niniancat 2 years ago
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Bytheway I'm a student at BYU-Idaho and I went to this talk last week and he twisted some of the things that Elder Oaks really said, and at the beginning of the speech Elder Oaks even told us that the world was going to be watching this talk and he was going to be ridiculed for it! He even prophesized of our persecution just for his speech! Wow!
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Well, sure, if you plan to say ridiculous things while in a position of power you can expect that you'll be ridiculed for it.
sycocoaster 2 years ago 7
Well, it was preeeetty obvious what would happen. No prophecy was necessary there. But hey, he did it anyway since he knew it had to be said.
BarkLabanWoof 2 years ago 5
Wow! You know, I "prophesized" that I would walk into a biker bar and call someone a knuckle dragging piece of shit he would beat me up--and you know what--it happened! I must be divinely inspired!
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
Wow MaryJesusJoseph you sound really bitter and mad. Surely your youtube name doesn't match with your content. I think it's just interesting how this was a devotional given in REXBURG IDAHO out in the middle of nowhere and it somehow made it out!!! Who wastes there time looking for things like this anyways they must have no life or they try and make the good look bad to gain power.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
What's your point? Since the devotional was given in Rexburg Idaho (I have been there by the way) it shouldn't be commented on? In this age of cell phones with cameras and tiny recording devices nothing stays quiet.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
ok you have said a lot for some one who so obviously didnt read the talk. he says at the very begining that he knows it is going to be every where and that he is speaking to the world
niniancat 2 years ago
Maybe MaryJesusJoseph is mad 'cause his/her rights were voted away.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 2
And bytheway it's a private University Mary JesusJospeh so they have no right to tell us what we can and can't say that's what makes it PRIVATE!!! If it was at a normal state school then I can understand their point, but they have no right especially when the school is already 99.8% Mormon and 100% against Gay marriage.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
I grew up 7 miles from BYU in Provo so I know what these institutions are--I'm not sure why you're telling me this since it has nothing to do with what I said. Did BYU Idaho used to be Rick's college? I almost went to school there. Who is trying to tell you what you can and can't say? I'm not sure what your point is.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago 2
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this guy cracks me up. he's didnt get the name of the church right, he didnt even get the name of the university right, and he didnt have a valid argument. By the way, no matter what is said or done to the church, we will stand strong and nothing will bring it down. if the death of Joseph Smith didnt end it, nothing else will, not even this pathetic guy that doesnt even have his facts right.
SandritaPleites 2 years ago
He was using ONE of the original names for the LDS Church. Think of all the names your church has had: The Church of Christ, The Church of the Latter-day Saints....don't blame people if they can't keep up with what you are calling yourselves this week.
No one is trying to bring down your church. 99% of the public doesn't even care about Mormonism
MrOldSlacker 2 years ago 4
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Get your facts right. The Church of Christ and the Church of the Latter Day Saints were never names of our church. If you are reffering to the Reorganized Church then that has nothing to do with us.
ethan8220 2 years ago
ok is so why are you comenting. and just so you know the church of jesus christ of latter day saints has been the official name of the church since the 1830's it hasnt changed
niniancat 2 years ago
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You are so right Keith Olberman, we should definitely listen to your advise night in and night out, because you have that ever prestigious B.A. in communications. That gives you every right to tell a man who has a JD from the number 6 law school in the country and was twice considered for the US Supreme court, to shut the hell up.
Shouldn't you be covering sports, oh wait thats right you have been fired from just about every sports new station in the country.
scubastevepj300 2 years ago
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How many times has he mentioned Afghanistan or Iraq in the last year? The 3 times he has to say it in this video?
tedvenqchenzo 2 years ago
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I have to agree whole heartedly with avgooftroop13!
bouncies 2 years ago
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In formal reasoning there is a name for this kind of attack; it is called ad hominem, which means "to the man." It is an attack on the individual who presents an argument with which one does not agree, rather than a reasoned rebuttal of the argument itself. Ad hominem attacks are irrelevant; if this man disagrees with these people, he should put forth a reasoned argument, not a blatant fallacy enshrined in J.S. Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.
happygirl65366 2 years ago
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People's issue with Dallin H. Oaks's speech seems to be his comparison of the protests and vandalism against the LDS church after Prop 8 to similar outbreaks against civil rights activists during that movement. While it's true that the civil rights violence was much, much worse, Oaks's point was that the principle is the same. A group of people is being terrorized for exercising their legal rights. The degree of violence is irrelevent; the principle remains the same.
happygirl65366 2 years ago
I feel so sorry for them, they went out of their way to deny others the legal rights that they did have and now people are mad at them. Mormons aren't the victims here.
PeterOrszagCallMe 2 years ago 7
What Mormons are "being terrorized"?
And the amount of lies in the pro-prop 8 campaign and the anti-gay marriage campaign in Maine shows how shallow the reasoning of the anti-gay marriage movement is.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
churches have been vandalized and people have been sent death threats. these are extreme examples of course
niniancat 2 years ago
Yes, and all they did was work to take away the human rights of a group of American citizens--that's not an extreme example--it's what the LDS church did. They've also been using various methods to try to make gay people straight for years--sure they stopped using shock therapy but they did use it in the past.
MaryJesusJoseph 2 years ago
Let me get this straight. A billion dollar multinational corporation calling itself a church goes out of it's way to get involved in denying another group a basic right enjoyed by the majority and now it's members can't understand why members of that group would be mad?
You write: "The degree of violence is irrelevent; the principle remains the same." Well hell, don't stop there! Tell the world that the protests and vandalism were like what the Jews went through in the holocaust.
MrOldSlacker 2 years ago 7