@mrzipdisk See the thing is that those corporations are what provide cheap goods over here. Thus even though we as random people are a third party it benefits us indirectly if they are not stolen from. It's not an accident that larger countries or civilizations throughout history that had a greater degree of influence in the world also had a higher standard of living for their citizens.
@JohananRaatz Also just because its a "complex system" doesn't mean that it organize itself to some degree as to avoid complete and utter chaos, a la Adam Smith's Invisible Hand.
I guess cheap goods is a value judgment. I guess my main gripe, and the main support for my view that our history of meddling has yielded less than optimal results is more of the way we meddled than just meddling being bad in general. Overthrowing popular leaders leads to blowback, dictatorships, mistrust where cooperation probably would have been better for the long run. I guess if all you cared about was cheap gas you'd be in favor of this, I can't say I agree with that.
@mrzipdisk Also define "cheap gas." Corporations, big Oil corps, would want to maximize profits, expanding their supply wouldn't mean cheaper gas prices, it would just mean that they get more revenue. Sorry for the sporadic posts.
Order is not mutually dependent with good will. You want a political constant? Injustice will incite change- and corruption will fight it. People in your own State are willing to destroy your way of life for personal profit, how much harder do you think it is to stop when its federal and in another country? Maybe if we fix our system we can rely on it to do well for others.
If you do not respect science- you cannot be a scientist.
If you do not respect the people- you can be a politician.
@jooljetkmae No that's not true. I do think the Egyptians should have democracy. I just don't want it to be a one time vote for the Muslim Brotherhood -which will end up going badly for both them, our allies, and us. I like what they are doing, I just hope nothing rash happens.
@jooljetkmae Well I'm actually not opposed to what's going on in Egypt. I just think it should be done with caution so that the Muslim Brotherhood does not get in and replace Mubarak with a much worse regime.
Meddling is good until it blows up in your face. What if instead of meddling using guns and bombs our country were to send over food and clothing and not in a effort to make dependants but to honestly help. IIt would cost far less and would reduce the number of enemies. perhaps the world does not work in such a fashion. Perhaps it can when enough are ready. At any rate choas interactions would be reduced with food and clothes rather than increased with bombs bullets and puppet governments.
The founders warned against foreign interventions because they understood there would always be control freak advocates like this kid who will use any prod, even unrelated physics to advance the idea that meddling in things that are NONE of your business is somehow good.
So kid, do you also advocate people unconnected to you should interfere in your life?
This video is a perfect example of a under 30 who does not see the horrific blowback effects of meddling. Buy a clue kid...lol
The founders warned against foreign interventions because they understood there would always be control freak advocates like this kid who will use any prod, even unrelated physics to advance the idea that meddling in things that are NONE of your business is somehow good.
So kid, do you also advocate people unconnected to you should interfere in your life?
This video is a perfect example of a under 30 who does not see the horrific blowback effects of meddling. Buy a clue kid...lol
@unameitltd The question is whether or not they are unconnected to us. The gas prices at the pump. You know why (in part) they went up? It's because the democratically elected Hugo Chavez outright STOLE ExxonMobil's oil at the behest of "the people." This kind of thing could have been prevented had we done a little coup.
@JohananRaatz So according to you other countries don't own the oil under their feet, companies like exxon do & young americans should die overthrowing elected governments who arrest US company plunder of resources by companies like exxon.
Wow kid buy a fricking clue!!! BTW: oil prices are set by global energy markets and who owns/sells the oil does not effect gas prices by even a penny, Sending americans to die overthrowing anybody to keep that penny in shareholder hands is sick.
"BTW: oil prices are set by global energy markets"
Yes, and when socialists tamper with the global energy market that will necessarily change the prices won't it?
And no it's not Venezuala's oil because they do not possess property rights to it. And BTW the reason I support coups over invasions is that we can do it that way without loss of life. No American soldiers are sent, just a plane full of CIA operatives to kidnap the president.
Its the height of absurdity to claim a country does not have property rights to oil under its own land. No prinicpal of law supports such sillyness.
Socalism has near zero impact on how global energy markets, unless of course you count federal reserve manulipation of the value of the dollar.
CIA operatives are American soliders. Putting ANY lives at risk or tax dollars into a coup of an elected government for oil company benifit is pure fascism.
@unameitltd First of all that is part of the CIA's job. Secondly, Americans including Americans who own companies have property rights -regardless of the country that property is in. The function of any state is the protection of the rights of its citizens. Thus logically the function of the government here is the protection of ExxonMobil's property rights (ExxonMobil is under American jurisdiction) watch?v=tFKc_Z2tN8E
And coups have been done very cheaply -now often with NO loss of life.
@unameitltd "Socialism has near zero impact on how global energy markets"
Ok let me explain this. Market value is based on the laws of supply and demand right? Now lets say a socialist kleptocracy steals someone's property and reserves it for themselves, what does this do the supply? It reduces it. Demand remains constant though, hence the remaining oil gets sold at a higher price. See the problem?
@unameitltd The larger problem is this: A whole lot of American companies (on which the economy depends) own stuff in other countries. Notice that our economy is still (even though it has taken a hit) on top of the world. Our way of life is dependent on that economy. If one country does this then others follow suit (in fact Chavez wants this). What do you suppose happens if all of the countries nationalize their stuff? It's bye-bye to American prosperity.
@unameitltd - Johanan won't go for the "risk YOUR life" bit here - as an avowed neoconservative, he's another armchair general who is more than happy to send other people to get maimed so that he can have all the (fill in the blank) he thinks we need.
Neoconservatism is patently dishonest, lazy, cowardly, & unchristian.
@DownWithThe4eleven Well I was actually thinking of joining the air force, but I have a history of epilepsy.
However I will give you an example that does not fit into your category. One of my brothers shares my political views and is in the air force. Instead of being lazy and uncowardly, he is what they call "gung-ho." He signed up for the shortest stint so that he could then go over as quickly as possible and use his background to join Blackwater. His friends nicknamed him "Lt. Darkside."
Russell Walter Mead divided Murican furrin policy into four schools: Jeffersonian, Jacksonian, Hamiltonian, and Wilsonian. Which category do you believe describes you best?
@JHBowden79 Hmm, I'm going to have to play connect-matching-pairs-with-lines game. (I'm not familiar with Mead but I'm going to guess I'm a Hamiltonian)
There's neoconservativism, realism, liberal internationalism, and isolationism.
Meddling is just an easy way to help a small group of corporations. You're theory suggests that this is "good." Wheres the empirical evidence?
mrzipdisk 3 months ago
@mrzipdisk See the thing is that those corporations are what provide cheap goods over here. Thus even though we as random people are a third party it benefits us indirectly if they are not stolen from. It's not an accident that larger countries or civilizations throughout history that had a greater degree of influence in the world also had a higher standard of living for their citizens.
JohananRaatz 3 months ago
@JohananRaatz Also just because its a "complex system" doesn't mean that it organize itself to some degree as to avoid complete and utter chaos, a la Adam Smith's Invisible Hand.
mrzipdisk 3 months ago
@mrzipdisk *that it CAN't organize
mrzipdisk 3 months ago
I guess cheap goods is a value judgment. I guess my main gripe, and the main support for my view that our history of meddling has yielded less than optimal results is more of the way we meddled than just meddling being bad in general. Overthrowing popular leaders leads to blowback, dictatorships, mistrust where cooperation probably would have been better for the long run. I guess if all you cared about was cheap gas you'd be in favor of this, I can't say I agree with that.
mrzipdisk 3 months ago
@mrzipdisk Also define "cheap gas." Corporations, big Oil corps, would want to maximize profits, expanding their supply wouldn't mean cheaper gas prices, it would just mean that they get more revenue. Sorry for the sporadic posts.
mrzipdisk 3 months ago
Order is not mutually dependent with good will. You want a political constant? Injustice will incite change- and corruption will fight it. People in your own State are willing to destroy your way of life for personal profit, how much harder do you think it is to stop when its federal and in another country? Maybe if we fix our system we can rely on it to do well for others.
If you do not respect science- you cannot be a scientist.
If you do not respect the people- you can be a politician.
EgadsNo 5 months ago
@jooljetkmae No that's not true. I do think the Egyptians should have democracy. I just don't want it to be a one time vote for the Muslim Brotherhood -which will end up going badly for both them, our allies, and us. I like what they are doing, I just hope nothing rash happens.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@jooljetkmae Well I'm actually not opposed to what's going on in Egypt. I just think it should be done with caution so that the Muslim Brotherhood does not get in and replace Mubarak with a much worse regime.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@jooljetkmae Yes, as is consistent with my interests. That is the nature of the entire game though.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Meddling is good until it blows up in your face. What if instead of meddling using guns and bombs our country were to send over food and clothing and not in a effort to make dependants but to honestly help. IIt would cost far less and would reduce the number of enemies. perhaps the world does not work in such a fashion. Perhaps it can when enough are ready. At any rate choas interactions would be reduced with food and clothes rather than increased with bombs bullets and puppet governments.
Connect2Homes 1 year ago
shouldn't be so hard on liberal internationalism....it doesn't specifically mandate that its goals be constrained by the corrupt united nations.
AaronGunn10 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The founders warned against foreign interventions because they understood there would always be control freak advocates like this kid who will use any prod, even unrelated physics to advance the idea that meddling in things that are NONE of your business is somehow good.
So kid, do you also advocate people unconnected to you should interfere in your life?
This video is a perfect example of a under 30 who does not see the horrific blowback effects of meddling. Buy a clue kid...lol
unameitltd 1 year ago
Comment removed
unameitltd 1 year ago
The founders warned against foreign interventions because they understood there would always be control freak advocates like this kid who will use any prod, even unrelated physics to advance the idea that meddling in things that are NONE of your business is somehow good.
So kid, do you also advocate people unconnected to you should interfere in your life?
This video is a perfect example of a under 30 who does not see the horrific blowback effects of meddling. Buy a clue kid...lol
unameitltd 1 year ago
@unameitltd The question is whether or not they are unconnected to us. The gas prices at the pump. You know why (in part) they went up? It's because the democratically elected Hugo Chavez outright STOLE ExxonMobil's oil at the behest of "the people." This kind of thing could have been prevented had we done a little coup.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz So according to you other countries don't own the oil under their feet, companies like exxon do & young americans should die overthrowing elected governments who arrest US company plunder of resources by companies like exxon.
Wow kid buy a fricking clue!!! BTW: oil prices are set by global energy markets and who owns/sells the oil does not effect gas prices by even a penny, Sending americans to die overthrowing anybody to keep that penny in shareholder hands is sick.
unameitltd 1 year ago
@unameitltd
"BTW: oil prices are set by global energy markets"
Yes, and when socialists tamper with the global energy market that will necessarily change the prices won't it?
And no it's not Venezuala's oil because they do not possess property rights to it. And BTW the reason I support coups over invasions is that we can do it that way without loss of life. No American soldiers are sent, just a plane full of CIA operatives to kidnap the president.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz
Its the height of absurdity to claim a country does not have property rights to oil under its own land. No prinicpal of law supports such sillyness.
Socalism has near zero impact on how global energy markets, unless of course you count federal reserve manulipation of the value of the dollar.
CIA operatives are American soliders. Putting ANY lives at risk or tax dollars into a coup of an elected government for oil company benifit is pure fascism.
Again kid, bue a clue
unameitltd 1 year ago
@unameitltd First of all that is part of the CIA's job. Secondly, Americans including Americans who own companies have property rights -regardless of the country that property is in. The function of any state is the protection of the rights of its citizens. Thus logically the function of the government here is the protection of ExxonMobil's property rights (ExxonMobil is under American jurisdiction) watch?v=tFKc_Z2tN8E
And coups have been done very cheaply -now often with NO loss of life.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@unameitltd "Socialism has near zero impact on how global energy markets"
Ok let me explain this. Market value is based on the laws of supply and demand right? Now lets say a socialist kleptocracy steals someone's property and reserves it for themselves, what does this do the supply? It reduces it. Demand remains constant though, hence the remaining oil gets sold at a higher price. See the problem?
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@unameitltd The larger problem is this: A whole lot of American companies (on which the economy depends) own stuff in other countries. Notice that our economy is still (even though it has taken a hit) on top of the world. Our way of life is dependent on that economy. If one country does this then others follow suit (in fact Chavez wants this). What do you suppose happens if all of the countries nationalize their stuff? It's bye-bye to American prosperity.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz let me try to use my 31 years of work as an economist here to disabuse you of your misinformation.
1. The US economy may be largest from past growth, but its very unhealthy NOW
2. The US economy IS NOT at all dependent on foreign owned corp assets
3. American prosperty rises or falls on monitary issues
4. Much of the US economy is already nationalized
If irrevelent Hugo Chavez bothers you so much you should go risk YOUR life and fortune trying to eliminate him.
unameitltd 1 year ago
@unameitltd - Johanan won't go for the "risk YOUR life" bit here - as an avowed neoconservative, he's another armchair general who is more than happy to send other people to get maimed so that he can have all the (fill in the blank) he thinks we need.
Neoconservatism is patently dishonest, lazy, cowardly, & unchristian.
DownWithThe4eleven 1 year ago
@DownWithThe4eleven Well I was actually thinking of joining the air force, but I have a history of epilepsy.
However I will give you an example that does not fit into your category. One of my brothers shares my political views and is in the air force. Instead of being lazy and uncowardly, he is what they call "gung-ho." He signed up for the shortest stint so that he could then go over as quickly as possible and use his background to join Blackwater. His friends nicknamed him "Lt. Darkside."
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
Russell Walter Mead divided Murican furrin policy into four schools: Jeffersonian, Jacksonian, Hamiltonian, and Wilsonian. Which category do you believe describes you best?
JHBowden79 1 year ago
@JHBowden79 Hmm, I'm going to have to play connect-matching-pairs-with-lines game. (I'm not familiar with Mead but I'm going to guess I'm a Hamiltonian)
There's neoconservativism, realism, liberal internationalism, and isolationism.
I'm going to guess it works like this:
Jeffersonian ----> Isolationist
Jacksonian ----> Realist
Hamiltonian ----> Neoconservative
Wilsonian ----> Liberal Internationalist
Did I match them up right?
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
I'll send you a link.
JHBowden79 1 year ago