anyone who thinks ayahuasca is about meditating and seeking enlightenment is a fool. You will retch and vomit, you will shit, you will tremble with fear, you will go to hell...and heaven. Far from zen. But healing nonetheless. Ayahuasca is about healing not enlightenment.
@MegaMagicman89 If that was your experience then, very well, but that is not true for all peoples. Fact is, the shamans that practice these rituals and lead people through these ceremonies always tell you to make your intent to the brew well-known and they state that the sacred brew will give you the answers you seek or "teach you what you need to know."
So, to you, I say, true spiritual healing can not occur without enlightenment. My two cents and nothing more.
I would really like to hear what Ken Wilbur would say about ayahuasca after going into the jungle with experienced shamans and taking ayahuasca for a few months. I agree about using entheogens in addition to some meditation structure as well as regressive cathartic therapy for the release of past incomplete childhood experiences which are hard wired and difficult change without a very deep grounding. I think Ken Wilbur has so much he could bring to an ayahuasca experience. Of course, he didn't
you send me that dickhead columbian indian to my fuckin house, I let him in and give fuckin tea. then I discover he is a fuckin snitch. so listen ken. fuck you and all your fuckin friends. get back to your books and get the fuck off my life. sign me out if unfortunatelly I am a part of your shitty "school".
I'm not a fan of Wilber and the guru industry but he does make sense here. I know psychedelics are important, but apart from the McKenna brothers, Leary and the other top psychedelic guys, most psychonaughts come across as idiots! If your honest then I think u can see my point
I've been a follower of Ken Wilber for a long time. I've read a bunch of the books but is it just me or are other people starting to get the feeling that he's just winging it? It sounds very deep and elightened what hes saying but is he really saying anything? at the end of the day - seriously - he's a genius at saying a whole lot but not saying anything at all. Or at least can say everything he's really saying with a third of the words he uses. anyone else agree?
@andrewstibs lol hehe, I've experienced this with teachers I've really looked up to and now I'm realizing I am becoming my own best teacher...I totally get what you're stating
Well, I think we need to keep in mind that Wilber is in an awfully, awfully tough spot. He's let being "Ken-Wilber" . . . get out of control.
Almost anyone who becomes as public in History as Wilber has . . . is personally doomed.
We need those kind of people . . . and should be grateful for them . . . but they themselves are trapped by the same dynamics that's made them well-known, popular, influential, etc.
Sort of disconcerting, when you think about it . . .
@greenrate How has everyone who has become "public in history" "personally doomed" Im not sure i agree with that. I can think of countless individuals who that is not true of... I think I know about what you mean about him being trapped playing this role of Ken wilber that he's created for himself. still. i think the need for him to cling to that celebrity not only causes people to loose interest in what he's saying but sort of contradicts everything he's saying.
I've been a follower of Ken Wilber for a long time. I've read a bunch of the books but is it just me or are other people starting to get the feeling that he's just winging it? It sounds very deep and elightenin what hes saying but is he really saying anything? at the end of the day - seriously - he's a genius at saying a whole lot but not saying anything at all. Or at least can say everything he's really saying with a third of the words he uses. anyone else agree?
I've dappled in psychedelics, but I have to say something here. I don't at all equate psychedelics with spirituality. No, no, and no. The BRAIN is altered when you use psychedelics. The trajectory of experience is launched from the brain, NOT the mind. Meditation, on the other hand, is launched from the mind. The source of penetrating the veil is from different points of instigation. One is to traverse the vast and indeterminate plains of quietude in meditation for truth.
@mindrunfree If the meditation is about the mind is´s at a very shallow state. Proper meditation is to go beyond the mind. To get to similar experiences, even enhanced, with entheogens, my experience is that you have to do something more, like pushing yourself very far. Just taking entheogens don´t do much (but I have no experience with for ex Aya)
Ken makes a few good points. Constant use of intoxicants while neglecting the moral dimension and personal development has its down sides. And meditation provides a wonderful centering experience, perhaps permanent transformation in some people. But the idea that meditation alone can deliver high states equivalent to a psychedelic or even cannabis experience I find highly dubious. Ken claims to have reached such states in this way, so I'll take his word for it. I tend to think it's very rare.
Ken Wilber admits he's never done ayahuasca. His opinion on it doesn't really matter. Ayahuasca or high dose LSD by itself is very healing of birth trauma specifically. Causing permanent transformation in many cases. For me it was the equivalent of 2-5 years of psychotherapy in one session. See the work of Stanislav Grof for more info.
For an informed an sacramental approach please read: The Psychedelic Experience: A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, by Timothy Leary, Ph.D., Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., & Richard Alpert, Ph.D.
Psychedelic Prayers. after the Tao Te Ching, by Timothy Leary
and The Salvia divinorum User's Guide by Daniel Siebert
all are available in HTML on the internet, just google.
"It's not an experience. It doesn't have a beginning in time. Anything that has beginning in time is not real." ...... whoof.
Monitiko 1 week ago
anyone who thinks ayahuasca is about meditating and seeking enlightenment is a fool. You will retch and vomit, you will shit, you will tremble with fear, you will go to hell...and heaven. Far from zen. But healing nonetheless. Ayahuasca is about healing not enlightenment.
MegaMagicman89 1 month ago
@MegaMagicman89 If that was your experience then, very well, but that is not true for all peoples. Fact is, the shamans that practice these rituals and lead people through these ceremonies always tell you to make your intent to the brew well-known and they state that the sacred brew will give you the answers you seek or "teach you what you need to know."
So, to you, I say, true spiritual healing can not occur without enlightenment. My two cents and nothing more.
Lunartrek 1 week ago
I would really like to hear what Ken Wilbur would say about ayahuasca after going into the jungle with experienced shamans and taking ayahuasca for a few months. I agree about using entheogens in addition to some meditation structure as well as regressive cathartic therapy for the release of past incomplete childhood experiences which are hard wired and difficult change without a very deep grounding. I think Ken Wilbur has so much he could bring to an ayahuasca experience. Of course, he didn't
Raina430 1 month ago
How much tall is Wilber, if anyone knows...? and yes I know it's a superficial and a stupid question
hfoshgsdgoud 1 month ago
you send me that dickhead columbian indian to my fuckin house, I let him in and give fuckin tea. then I discover he is a fuckin snitch. so listen ken. fuck you and all your fuckin friends. get back to your books and get the fuck off my life. sign me out if unfortunatelly I am a part of your shitty "school".
holekyo 1 month ago
they come, they torture you a while, and then they leave :)
claudelebel55 2 months ago
One of the most interesting clips on youtube.
HIHIMIII56 2 months ago
The more the altered states of consciousness you experience the more you transform - so true.
YtubeUserr 3 months ago in playlist More videos from Manjushri9
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I'm not a fan of Wilber and the guru industry but he does make sense here. I know psychedelics are important, but apart from the McKenna brothers, Leary and the other top psychedelic guys, most psychonaughts come across as idiots! If your honest then I think u can see my point
godno1god 4 months ago
I've been a follower of Ken Wilber for a long time. I've read a bunch of the books but is it just me or are other people starting to get the feeling that he's just winging it? It sounds very deep and elightened what hes saying but is he really saying anything? at the end of the day - seriously - he's a genius at saying a whole lot but not saying anything at all. Or at least can say everything he's really saying with a third of the words he uses. anyone else agree?
andrewstibs 5 months ago 3
@andrewstibs lol hehe, I've experienced this with teachers I've really looked up to and now I'm realizing I am becoming my own best teacher...I totally get what you're stating
oridniv 4 months ago
@andrewstibs
Well, I think we need to keep in mind that Wilber is in an awfully, awfully tough spot. He's let being "Ken-Wilber" . . . get out of control.
Almost anyone who becomes as public in History as Wilber has . . . is personally doomed.
We need those kind of people . . . and should be grateful for them . . . but they themselves are trapped by the same dynamics that's made them well-known, popular, influential, etc.
Sort of disconcerting, when you think about it . . .
greenrate 4 months ago
@greenrate How has everyone who has become "public in history" "personally doomed" Im not sure i agree with that. I can think of countless individuals who that is not true of... I think I know about what you mean about him being trapped playing this role of Ken wilber that he's created for himself. still. i think the need for him to cling to that celebrity not only causes people to loose interest in what he's saying but sort of contradicts everything he's saying.
andrewstibs 4 months ago
I've been a follower of Ken Wilber for a long time. I've read a bunch of the books but is it just me or are other people starting to get the feeling that he's just winging it? It sounds very deep and elightenin what hes saying but is he really saying anything? at the end of the day - seriously - he's a genius at saying a whole lot but not saying anything at all. Or at least can say everything he's really saying with a third of the words he uses. anyone else agree?
andrewstibs 5 months ago
He doesn't know what he's talking about.
Ego disappearing doesn't mean you don't look at yourself and vacation from yourself..
He's blowing smoke. Or needs better stuff.
Meditation vs. Hallucinogens...
You cannot GET THERE WITHOUT PSYCHEDELICS.
slipmaggot3 9 months ago
the guy who set up the question would make a good speaker himself.
avedic 9 months ago 9
the guy talking his eyes are dilated!
natespence83 10 months ago
LOL it is Tein from Dragonball Z!!
ygkenn 10 months ago
Great to see that Wilber has a sense of humour about the subject.
TheMikakoivu 1 year ago
I've dappled in psychedelics, but I have to say something here. I don't at all equate psychedelics with spirituality. No, no, and no. The BRAIN is altered when you use psychedelics. The trajectory of experience is launched from the brain, NOT the mind. Meditation, on the other hand, is launched from the mind. The source of penetrating the veil is from different points of instigation. One is to traverse the vast and indeterminate plains of quietude in meditation for truth.
mindrunfree 1 year ago
@mindrunfree If the meditation is about the mind is´s at a very shallow state. Proper meditation is to go beyond the mind. To get to similar experiences, even enhanced, with entheogens, my experience is that you have to do something more, like pushing yourself very far. Just taking entheogens don´t do much (but I have no experience with for ex Aya)
HIHIMIII56 10 months ago
Meditation is the path to mental clarity, peace and wisdom, Ayahuasca is the vine of the soul. Im glad to have tried both.
Gerazini 1 year ago 7
This is very, very good speech. I´m a bit surprised over the deep and eloquent Insight that´s presented here.
High Respect to Ken Wilber & Eric from Australia & great thanks to Manjushri9 for sharing this.
HIHIMIII56 1 year ago
Comment removed
HIHIMIII56 1 year ago
Ken makes a few good points. Constant use of intoxicants while neglecting the moral dimension and personal development has its down sides. And meditation provides a wonderful centering experience, perhaps permanent transformation in some people. But the idea that meditation alone can deliver high states equivalent to a psychedelic or even cannabis experience I find highly dubious. Ken claims to have reached such states in this way, so I'll take his word for it. I tend to think it's very rare.
pape37 1 year ago
Ken Wilber doesn't talk so much about Ayahuasca specific.
micaminosagrado 1 year ago
Ken Wilber admits he's never done ayahuasca. His opinion on it doesn't really matter. Ayahuasca or high dose LSD by itself is very healing of birth trauma specifically. Causing permanent transformation in many cases. For me it was the equivalent of 2-5 years of psychotherapy in one session. See the work of Stanislav Grof for more info.
rmfurr 1 year ago
@rmfurr Very Good! See why it´s not accepted using Aya or LSD in Psychotherapy (except in Holland I think?) - it´s too effective!
Puts lots of Psychoanalysts out of work and the profit of big companies selling dangerous legal drugs is threatened.
HIHIMIII56 1 year ago
@HIHIMIII56 horseshit
bille77 6 months ago
@rmfurr never had the pleasure myself to do a high dose LSD...kinda freaks me out a lil
ssssaintmarcus 1 month ago
so give me all your money ken
zorbatheok 1 year ago
The last 30 seconds is key: the advanced course is....
sacca7 1 year ago
Wonderful Upload!
Keep it up! Ron
plague613 1 year ago
Yeah... Breakfast, Lunch & Dinner
hahahahah :)
DOGGPOUNDGANGST 1 year ago
Wonderful :)
For an informed an sacramental approach please read: The Psychedelic Experience: A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, by Timothy Leary, Ph.D., Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., & Richard Alpert, Ph.D.
Psychedelic Prayers. after the Tao Te Ching, by Timothy Leary
and The Salvia divinorum User's Guide by Daniel Siebert
all are available in HTML on the internet, just google.
Anomki 1 year ago 2
@Anomki thankyouverymuch!!
luismog 9 months ago