Ive heard nothing but bad things about scientology... But to make a crap video like this - scientology would at least do a better job at propoganda. Gordon Brown has better things to do then read a bunch of fudged numbers. Some of the claims are definetly not credible or supported by fact. weak
jfunf you are selusional. This is no religion come on. Scammology iif it ever was a religion it could be the religion of internet spammers and identity frauds cause you guys have now made a religion of scam. Gone are the days of scam artists. Now they call themselves religious leaders.
Even though I hav e NEVER used a scifag vid and have NEVER hosted a vid unless given permission, I am being taken down for infringement Have tried to respond to complaints, no response. Don't even bother with jewtube; we need another avenue
you need to get the facts right this is so left field, the test was created at oxford university you muppet!!!! fact 7 muppet!! where did you dig that one up you need to get a life!!!!
About getting the facts right. The Oxford University has nothing to do with that silly test Hubbard scraped together, despite the name he made up for it..
The current "OCA" personality test is credited to Hubbard. It was credited to Mary Sue Hubbard after Ray Kemp had refused to assign the copyright to Hubbard - his test was changed slightly to become Mary Sue's. Kemp copied the test from Julia Salman's American Capacity Analysis, which in turn derives from the '40s Johnson Temperament Analysis.
The main problem with Scientologists is that they seem to be so far gone past the realm of sanity, logic and common sense that you cannot possibly reason with them.
I don't know if Lynchy1001 is a proponent of Scientologivemeabreak, but she is helping to prove my point. Somehow she feels that nonsense followed by illogical statements, following unjustified and ridiculous assertions is the same as saying something worthwhile.
Scientology is a detriment to all that mankind has been striving for for at least the last few hundred years.
It's hard for the opposition to be organized, because even Scientologists don't really have a clue what they're talking about, let alone everyone else.
"pshooouw", "I'm an SP and you're a squirrel", "After years of being a Scientologist, I really didn't have a clue...now I get it", etc. Not to mention the fact that most Scientologists have no idea about the core beliefs of Scientology.
I suspect that You 're actually not a real Sc. Or you never used Sc, applied it. If you would you would not claim that "...Scientologists don't really have a clue what they're talking about..". You see it actually works. You would also know that generalizing and dont see the difference is the manifestation of the reactive part of the human mind. The one i do not consider wise.
Generalizing is a way to make a comment about a group of people efficiently and to the highest accuracy possible given a limited amount of time. Generalizing isn't a bad thing just because it's generalizing.
Is it possible to have a discussion/debate with a Scientologist without every difference of opinion being blamed on "the reactive mind"?
Plus, I have no idea what an Sc is. And nor do I care to. If you're going to invent your own language, then keep it to yourself.
I'm trying to show that you are being close-minded and ignorant about all the problems that Scientology has caused.
If all these same stories/statistics had come out about Raelianism instead of Scientology, you probably would've believed them 100%, but yet you refuse to accept this because it is about your own "religion".
I also hope to support the Anti-Scientology side of things, because I am of the opinion that Scientology has some goodness, but overall does more harm than good to the world.
Ok. So if you want to show my ignorance and that i'm being close-minded about all(?) problems that Scientology has caused then why wouldn't you discuss the exact problems it caused?
All we're talking about is that - whats my English skills are, who scientologists are, and so on. But those are subjective thoughts.
About ignorance - i will not retort to you on that cause we're alike on our approach to each other. I'm just never saying it. Whats important - is WHY we think that way of each of us.
Because this video does well to outline some (definitely not all) of the problems that have been caused by Scientology in the past, and despite all the evidence which supports this, you refuse to see this.
I'm trying to get you to realize that you can't disbelieve things you see/hear JUST because it's about your own religion.
No. I have no problem with you choosing to believe that Scientology is the best thing ever - as long as you are aware of everything that Scientology has done that's both good AND bad.
My only problem is if you choose to ignore the problem that Scientology has caused and still believe in it.
Ok. My point is - I'm well aware of the so-called "problems" people say it caused. I just got trouble RECEIVING any reliable data about the actual facts.all i see - is the text online. No scans. Not even the slightest link to an exact page, book, context.
The other thing is that Scientology is not about belief. Its about certain ways to achieve certain state of the mind. thats it. So the correct sentence probably would be that as i'm aware of "problems" i should stop applying it to my life - right?
If it's so - then you understand that to make myself quit out of the Scientology - i have to base my opinion on a very reliable information. I mean VERY reliable. After all - Scientology is very important part of my life and i have to VERY SURE of the "facts" media, or the guys like you present to me. It's not about "brainwashed", or "close minded" - it's about simple priorities of life which every guy has. So i'm opened to research any facts you could provide to me.
1. If you don't know what you're talking about - at least be silent - cause it will make smarter looking. I've audit people, and auditors had audited me - and i tell you it has nothing to do with hypnosis.
When/if you get into the upper OT levels, remeber this.. Xenu and aliens and shit. Then you will know that we're telling the truth. That's the crazy shit scientology is about. Only speaking the truth to help you.
When you get to the higher OT levels, they will tell you about thetans and aliens and "lord xenu" and all that BS. Then you will know I'm telling the truth. And when that time comes, you will realize that I've been trying to help you, and you are welcome to talk to me if you need any support to leave the cult.
They will tell you the concept about thetan much earlier then you get to the 1st step on path to Clear even. Xeny can be compared to Christ tale in turn. As for your trying to help consider this - I was going to study Sc. To be able to help myself. Instead of giving others to cram down my throat anything (regarding how you put that).
And if you just want people to live Sc - and therefore to stop helping themselves or trying to control their choice of ways helping themselves - i think it's a fair thing to at least give them a substitute to their current study which you consider as a wrong path. If its actually possible - cause how they can compare whats better - yours or others theory but by not studying both and deciding who's better.
I know about freezone. I don't want to go to them however. As for free - imagine that field auditors in Sc - either have to audit you for free - or for a price not lower then in sc organisations. Its a skill and therefore its business. freezone dont have a good ethics though. I trust them much less the SeaOrg even cause they do base their info on some data i cannot check. therefore i consider my way in Sc as a rogue one.
i dont know about field auditors - i think they pay tax. they're not religious organsations - therefore they have to pay tax and they do. if they would not - they will make a crime - and therefore they'll become unethical and they cant audit cause of that and so on. so they have to pay and they do.
But you admit sometimes you get depressed. Well, friend, I am never depressed and I don't even use "tech". Now, if tech really worked, it would mke you happy all the time, but it doesn't.
It's alright to ask questions, but of course sci will never tell you the truth, that's the problem with "first hand" information. You have to ask those questions yourself and contrast what sci says to what the real world says. Then you will find happiness, friend :)
Really? I'm so glad for you. but i'm in a different place then you. In Russia. If you got here - i'd see how you feel. Love of my life got cancer. and so on. I do not want you to pity me - i just say that its not so easy task to withstand all this dont you think - yet i manage. Using tech.
I'm sorry that happened to you :( Sometimes it's better to move on and start over with life rather than running away from problems. I don't think you really ever needed tech, I think you needed friends and support. But that shouldn't cost anything, while tech does :( How much have you spent on it? And how much do you work? How much sleep do you get?
I get 9 hours sleep a night :) It's good for the mind.
You know what i figured - that you're a pretty wise man. Its funny - but you are against Sc - because you got wrong data. If only you knew what i know - you would think differently. because you're not an ignorant blabber. Sometimes you have to be with people to help them - she is ill - but its not easy. she is fighting - and she nedds my support. but she is weak and therefore she is emotional and in certain depression. Now how can you be close to this influence and withstand it ? with
"Sometimes you have to be with people to help them - she is ill - but its not easy. "
The better question is - how do you think it makes her feel that you turn your back on her? She is the ill one after all. Don't you think she needs you in her last months/years of life? Don't you think that you should make the most of the time that's left? I think you should consider her feelings - how does she feel about being abandoned? :(
what i meant is that she is in a state of mental instability - in short - she is spilling acid to the guys around her. and i can withstand it - as i know how to fight with suppresion better then regular guy.
"You know what i figured - that you're a pretty wise man"
Thank you for the compliment. Are you eally 35? The surely you know about the things the KGB used to do? What I'm explaining is that the same techniques of subverstion the KGB and CIA used, sci also uses on people. Just because they don't tell you what to think doesn't mean they aren't using suggestive thinking techniques. I say it's better to be a free man against an insane world than a slave who serves others and doesn't live free.
Im 33. About technics - i said you just do not know the picture completely. If you would approach it with open mind you would find it useful. But you see - i notice that your position - better to insure to not be "brainwashed" then actually research. thats a position non the less. Everybody got their own priorities. You see - the point is that you tend to bel.. to be shure that you're currently "free". but the point is - that you think of this reality as of the only possible one.
In fact however - i approve the possibility that the world we live in - is not a free world, so to speak. and i do not mean russia allthough its a multiplied truth for Russia current state. But i mean different thing.
Yes I understand that most things are not free - but price is determined by cost of resources. And for as something as simple as what you are paying for, it shouldn't cost more than a few bucks. Certainly on tens of thousands. I mean really, for that much money they could provide much better facilities and services, don't you think?
I'm no more under indentured servitude as you are. we have to pay for all we acquire throughout of our life - its our priority to pay for what more suits us.
Thanks.
Sc - will never "take over the world". But i hope that in time people will become ready to make a deeper research into subject rather then base their occlusions on doubtful data fed to them by media. By overcoming lies they will be able to see things as they are.
It happened with science once. Regardless middle ages church policy - science endured. Jordan Bruno were burned for it but look were we are now. the same will happen to Sc. hopefully.
Scientology and the study of factual science are two different things. Scientology has nothing to do with the study of science of church persecution.. Scientology is mere brainwashing. It is a pyramid scheme. It is a mafia.
First of all - please be vary to the terms. for instance - Scientology itself - just a certain instructions. SeaOrg - is the actual organization which moves Scientology to the public. So "Scientology" itself - cannot be "mafia" by definition. as for SeaOrg - - I've already said that there are a lot of info - positive and negative. but i trust only what i found out.
Will you trust them even if they lock you up? Keep you from the outside world? Hit you? Threaten you?
Do you have no soul? No conscious mind? No sense of self or life or desire? No dreams? No independence? Instinct? Is there anything in there? Have you lost your mind???
The science Jordan Bruno was burned for is the science we all know as "common reality" It is the real, factual reality that we all live in, collectively.
It is the reality that allows all of us to co-exist.
If you really want to get into that, I can say that all religion - catholic, christianity, sci, all of them are bad for humanity. The mind was not meant to be manipulated. Man was meant to be free. Brainwashing is on a whole new level of evil; more than tyrannical dictatorship.
Furthermore, Jordan Bruno would have advocated scientific based studies such as sociology and PSYCHOLOGY.
Sci is attacking the study of psychology. I wonder why? Because they want to silence those who know the truth. They want to destroy all information that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sci is, in fact, proven by science, a dangerous brainwashing cult.
And ironic as it is - you are the one who believes in fairy tales while I try to use logic and reason as Jordan Bruno did.
In my beliefs, I have more in common with that - fact - than sci's do. Sci's are the one's who wish to destroy anyone who speaks out against the organization.
Sc its easier then without it. Sc just a way to overcome obstacles. thats it. Yes friends are good - but sometimes they tend to dissolve. and with Sc - you understand wider reasons of such dissolving of friendship. and you can predict it.
Sci - will never tell you that you should take anything it says for granted. If you do - than you're a number one candidate to be robbed. You HAVE to check and figure it out yourself. and when you experienced that its true - its TRUE..:)
they do not contradict themselves cause they put it like religion - valuable study about supernatural. thetan - are supernatural. Yet is science - religion. they are after money also - but as a main moving factor of this world.
well.. In russia you have to work a month for a sum of 1000$ - and thats a good wager. but due to my demands(Sc.) I had to choose the alternative route and create my own business which allowed me - in turn - to recieve much more.
You see - thats the concept. YOU think that you pay for "something so simple" just because you think it's "not valuable". but i wonder - why question the price - if you're not interested in value? I mean - really? why could anyone care about the price other have to put on their subject to sell it? Isn't it theirs business? Isn't yours to buy or not to buy depending on your acceptance of the price offered?
I wonder why guys - who against Sc - and says that "its a crap" - always say something about expensiveness. Do the intend to use it if it were cheap? Does the expensiveness - is the reason why they say to others - "its a crap"?
Do you know why x-sci's become x-es? for instance you got wife and husband - and they're in divorce. Each of them will blame the opposite side. I do not know Miscavige. But i'd like to hear his side of the story . But he wont waste time on explanations. As of "talks" - well people can talk all they want , don't they?
People leave scientology because it isn't right to be enslaved, put in a prison, beaten, abused, psychologically tormented and used by a ruthless cult. One day you will realize that I'm not lying to you.
? Enslaved? Put to prison? Beaten? Abused? whoa...thats a big talk. I never experienced any of this in 10 years. Neither my friends. But i heard about it. 10 years ago. from psychiatrists.
That's a lie. You are lying. Psychiatrist don't do those things.
And I bet you have experienced those things. What would happen if you left sci today? They would threaten you. They would try to hurt you. You can't deny this.
Let me guess, they tell you it's bad to think for yourself? They tell you it's bad to ask questions? Well they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting to leave something or to ask questions or to think about anything you like. It is your life and your mind.
Whats a lie? Psychiatrists said - i never said that they HAD camps. But psychiatrists are the ones against Sc. because Sc against them. so they're one of the guys who are interested in you to repeat what they "coached" you to(and many other guys who "repeat").
I guess that you think that can't live cause they'll sue me?
I can live anytime. In fact i wasn't there for several years. So what? Nothing. All they do - sometimes(1 time in 2 years) call me and ask me if i 'll return.
So now we come to a beliefs of YOURS. :) Ok. so you saw videos - well give me a links. Attacking people. Hmph..I'd like to see it. And i tell you - I left for 6 years. And i can come back any moment. Because i never left like McGoo did. I never been an attacker of Sc. I just paused. But if i can pause for 60 years it can be considered as "snapped out of it".
You wrong in your guessing. I think for myself all the time. they do not tell me anything - they do not teach me anything. And you can ask questions - but to the person from whom you want to hear answers from - not from guy from the street who does not have a clue how they could answer to you for a Miscavige man.
They indoctrinate you. Your responses to my questions are the same as every other sci. Distorted facts, blatant lies, it's like talking to a wall.
How could you ever get any truth if the same people who are manipulating you the only one's you seem to trust? Get out of that box. I mean you no harm.
Well - yes. Because what can i answer to the same old fashioned black propaganda media fed you with? You think i should invent different explanations anytime i hear the guy who says something ridiculous? The truth about Sc is one - and all gys like me tells you the actual way of things. What else are you expecting to hear?
ok. 1st. Girl was taped on video. I guess against her will. what her protection of her rights has to do with Scientology?
I can put masks of Anons on 10 of my friends - give the hammers to each of them and ask them to rudely talk to me and push my camera twice. Take two guys with me and ask them to say "Achtung" - and then tape all this stuff about attackers - on video. Put it here. and guys like you will buy it..:) Is that what you expect me to do?
Can you handle the truth? you just so brainwashed with lies about Sc - that even when i tell you something real - and normal - you can't believe it and call me a liar.
FBI - under government. TIME under government. whatever government says - they'll make. Sc was in Nixon's LIST since 50's. Nixon was a crook.I don't believe that FBI suddenly changed their policy.
And i dont believe journalists - cause i see where they invent their conclusions. for instance - you will never find anywere in Sc books that E-meter - is a lie detector. and its cost is cheap.
following this - i can accuse anyone. I can say that someone is a pervert and then he say - no i'm not - i say of course you tell half the truth, othervise you'll be placed in jail. thats a classic way to make a defamation ..:) You just make yourself right - you twist the facts so you would seem to be right about it. and you're not alone. Any of ofencive things spoken about Sc - cannot withstand pure logic.
What you've offered - two flicks - both doubtful...i said why. I nevere recieve no real info about Sc - can it even be provided trough the Internet? And regardless - myself - is my guide. I do not trust anyone completely - not your information sources nor them. What i did though - i did better research Sc then you did. and i see the picture more clearly i guess. what you do - you just blame them - and i have no idea why.
If you're too brainwashed to watch the thousands of videos of testimony by x sci's and videos made by people who know sci is a cult, you are brainwashed.
Didn't hubbard say that reality is what the majority thinks is true? Hmmm..
There are more disbelievers than there are believers...
And I will leave you with that, because frankly, I have better things to do - like have fun and do whatever I want, whenever I want.
"There are more disbelievers than there are believers..."
there are more believers. Cause you are a believer. you believe "facts". I do not believe. I prefer to research and find out. Its easy to sit at home do nothing and watch you tube and internet on which base your opinion upon.
And I will leave you with that, because frankly, I have better things to do - like have fun and do whatever I want, whenever I want.
Something you will never acheive in sci.
Oh, now we're talking. So you claim that you know what i do and when? and do i want to do what i do? I can say about you the same. doubt that it will be the truth though.
I can say that yeah anyone can do what they want here. We're all die anyway. Have fun. I'm after something more then just fun.
in fact NLP- is a useful thing - though it have nothing to do with Sc. when dilettantes talk - they can only find similarities. experienced ones - can see the differences. And NLP involves intense communication. and comes from the other person. Auditing - only several questions. And all other stuff related to self-NLP - not even researched enough to be claimed as the truth. Yet people think they have the authority to place marks on things.
yup. I saw that. some guy behind the camera, gives bs about what auditing is. no basis. Just pure accusations. I do not believe this. Becides i know what is auditing and i know what people do and what they feel - as i've tried it. And what he says - has nothing to do with what i felt. Orgasmic? Get outa here...:)
I got truth from myself - i believe them no more then i believe you. 50x50. but when i see lie in media - i spot it easily - because i know how things are. From my very own experience. Lies - comes from journalists. Journalists create public opinion on the subject(any subject) byt the order of government. There are no independent press. CNN? Blah..
In auditing - they do not say anything to you. they do not tell you how you should do or what - what they do - they ask. You tell. they write. then they get that to Case Supervisor. He study their writings of their dialog with you and he offers a certain rundowns to be applied. thats how it happens.
I mean i have to take courses but i doubt i'll be with them - i agree that some of their things like games and certain look - makes me feel uncomfortable - i do not like certain aspects in their behavior myself. but i understand from where it come from and i see the motives much more clearly then some anons do for instance.
If they make you uncomfortable and pressure you, then you shouldn't let that happen to you. Please friend, watch this movie and think deeply about what happens in sci.
I saw. Great movie, Yes - some of the things stated there - can be compared to what happens inside the Sc. But i doubt that any of those alone can be a sign of a cult. IMO they all must be in one place. and even that there is a small possibility that its not a cult. For instance - Army - is a cult? Or gym - is a cult?
and i also want to notice that it's not writing which makes cult - it's people. Peaople starting to behave - and noble orgs start to collapce cause of human not cause of tech.
Army does brainwash people. in fact any activity including life brainwash people into believing that they're just bodies.:) Whats brainwash is it to make someone to believe in certain concept? but do we know who we are? yet there are a lot of "explanations". As for Sci - i do not like cult - do i consider them a cult - No.
Yes brainwashing is a deceptive way to make someone believe something. We can't get our explainations from any religion or business, or any other person. That is what they believe. We have to ask ourselves what we truely believe, not what we're suggested to believe. It's not wrong to question, including sci.
exactly. but that does not believe that if someone tend to assure that something possible = he was brainwashed. You have to find out for yourself - but the time you do - you will no loger believe - you'll know. untill you know you believe that it's can be possible. In Sc - you check all the things if they're true for you - thats why i started it in the first place.
Ok. Imagine that when you come to Sc and learn some basic courses - you became more powerful then you were before you did. so you can withstand any suppression better - even theirs. so - they make you more powerful to withstand their own oppression - make no sense if you ask me. Point is - they do not suppress you. and what they do - they provide you with correct technology.
I'm sorry but I don't agree my friend. Technology is a computer. Technology is not psychology or hypnosis or the use of a lie detector test to manipulate people.
"So you know that some people are immune to hypnosis? "
Yes but you can be hypnotised if you want to be - and you want to believe sci is real. Do you understand that by believing in sci you have allowed yourself to be hypnotised?
believing in Sc = agreeing to be hypnotized? - I do not agree. If i follow Sc = I'm under hypnosis - I do not agree completely. Just because Sc is blamed anyone can say that its followers are hypnotized just because they follow it - thats ridiculous. who decides which way is not hypnosis?
Otherwise its a blind following from their side and therefore - it can be compared to a religion dependency - were you become a prophet - wouldn't you agree?
2. It cost "so much" when YOU think of it that for you it has no value. Thats why for you its "so much" because you dont know what it does. What it gives. So it's understandable. But that doe not mean that it has no value in general just because you don't know what value it has for you. so it's actually not so expensive. and there are ways to lower the cost. Question is - how much would you be ready to pay?
It's like a fix to a junky. All they do is overload the mind and force you to believe something that has NEVER happened to you. Have you done any research on Erickson's hypnotic induction? I know it's hard for you to understand, and even harder to admit that you've been had by the cult, but research. The truth is out there. Do you remeber before you joined sci? I bet you were actually more logical, happier.
Yes i remember. No i wasn't logical or happier. As for the Erickson - he got a theory - just as Hubbard did. what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory?
" what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory? "
The information about Hubbard is fact. The FBI has documented Hubbards life. DM lied to Hubbard by the way, and took over Hubbards ideas. Sci would be fine if it weren't run in such a sadistic manner.
" what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory? "
I do not care about LRH info - true or false it may be,it does not add or subtract from the usefulness of the tech invented.mean i checked tech to some extent and it works.For instance i do not need psychologists help to help myself.Can fix my daylife when i want as i understand whats the source of trouble.got depressions sometimes but i know what to do to get out of it.
I believe that no one can ever really KNOW the answers to life by the word of other men. Religion in itself is evil because we simple will NOT know until we die, if there even is anything after death. I follow my own heart, not what others have crammed down my throat to believe. I don't need to be threatened by God or thetans or hell to be a good person. I am because I am.
I don't agree with $cientology because they violate the most basic human rights. How is it freedom when you can't leave?
Ok. So your position and mine - is similar. Yet. "religion" - is a valuable knowledge, study - and therefore its evil in certain definition. After all - without religion - you cant explain the supernatural. Religion - is one of such explanations - wouldn't you agree? I study - whats said in $c. books - because I'm wondering. Don't get me wrong that i blindly follow what it says. But what I've experienced - "i KNOW" - rather then "I believe".
If you want to believe in sci, if it makes you happy, go for it. My problem is that there is no excuse for people, even children, being treated they way they are by sci.
Honestly tell me, if you wanted to leave, would they not fair game you? Why are they so afraid of people asking questions? Why so secretive and vengeful? Religion is supposed to be caring right? So why are people who leave or don't support the chuch spied on and terrorized?
If you live thay dont. If you fight with them - they will as you're becoming offencive. they tend to stop you. they dont abandon all hopes for you though as their goal to Clear the whole planet.
That's the problem, people have the right to believe what they want. And clearing the whole planet would also mean world domination, which is evil itself. I'm sorry, but there are no alien souls in me. LRH was a science fiction writer dude. But I think you're smart enough to figure that out some day, friend :)
People do. clearing the planet - its just a motto. and no its not the world domination - allthough it is..:) the point is - once you clear the planet - people will become really aware of who they are. and they will understand whats truth and whats not. so technically - Scientology bacome the world religion. but the goal - not to become a world religion but clear the minds of the human beings.
You can't disagree with $c - because $c is a technology. And it itself cannot violate anything - its just a text. Who's violating - is a human beings or organization. their mistaken or wrong policy have nothing to do with a value of the knowledge itself.
and you're free to leave. But you wont. You see - in case you have a certain knowledge - you can only stop learning it. But if you'll stop learning it until you've learned it completely - you will have a feeling of unfinished study - and cant help but wonder if you are able to receive what you expected - if you would finish studying it.
I understand you want to help yourself, but I believe that there's no better guidance then your own heart, and nothing better for support than real friends. Follow what you believe.
Remeber, there is a free sci called freezone if you don't believe you can pay. And remeber - would real friends make you feel guilty for wanting to leave your religion? Or would they support your decision and wish you the best of luck?
Ask yourself - are these people real friends or do they care more about sci?
I do have to say thank you for being so nice and having an open conversation with me. Other sci's are a bit rude and don't like to talk much. You're a cool person even if you are into sci :)
He also must pay off eight law firms that worked on contingency over the years."The cult that vowed it would never pay me one thin dime has now paid over 86 million thin dimes."
Yesterday, as a Los Angeles Superior Court judge was set to begin yet another hearing, the Church of Scientology of California suddenly threw in the towel.
At 8:17 a.m., the church deposited $8,674,843 with the court clerk, ending the case.
Wollersheim said "significant amounts" of the judgment are owed to people who loaned him money on faith that he would eventually prevail
But attorneys for Wollersheim said the church evaded payment by setting up corporate shells and employing endless hardball legal tactics, based on Hubbard policies that aim to ruin ex-members who sue the church. "Twenty-two years is extraordinary," attorney Ford Greene said.
As the battle went on, the $2.5 million judgment -- upheld in 1994 by the U.S. Supreme Court -- collected interest at the statutory 10 percent rate
The total was reduced on appeal to $2.5 million. But Scientology officials vowed they would pay "not one thin dime for Wollersheim," and members were rallied to chant that slogan at hearings.Church attorney William Drescher yesterday blamed Wollersheim in part for the long delay in resolving the case. "From what I understand, Wollersheim didn't make any effort to collect [the judgment] for 11 years," he said.
Wollersheim,who suffered from a bipolar disorder, was forbidden to seek medical help under Scientology policies, he says. He quit the church after spending $150,000 on Hubbard's "mental health" regimes, and by 1980 had filed suit. In 1986, a jury awarded him $5 million in compensatory damages and $25 million to punish the church for what jurors called intentional and negligent "infliction of emotional distress."
The ship was part of a mini-navy assembled by L. Ron Hubbard, the science fiction writer who created the church in the early 1950s.
Because of Scientology practices, "Wollersheim's mental condition worsened to the point he actively contemplated suicide," a California appeals court said in 1989. "The church's conduct was manifestly outrageous."
I'm smiling," he said. "It's like being the first plaintiff to get a victory against the cigarette companies."Wollersheim, who ran a small photo business, joined Scientology in 1969 and later became a recruiter. He signed a "billion-year" contract to serve the church but says that he ended up being punished in a "thought reform gulag," consigned to the hold of a ship docked off California for 18 hours a day
Ive heard nothing but bad things about scientology... But to make a crap video like this - scientology would at least do a better job at propoganda. Gordon Brown has better things to do then read a bunch of fudged numbers. Some of the claims are definetly not credible or supported by fact. weak
ScotlandCanada 2 years ago
Obvs, was successful in not having been shut down. Yay, Anon
WinrarIsMe 2 years ago
jfunf you are selusional. This is no religion come on. Scammology iif it ever was a religion it could be the religion of internet spammers and identity frauds cause you guys have now made a religion of scam. Gone are the days of scam artists. Now they call themselves religious leaders.
Pposted 2 years ago
delusional
Pposted 2 years ago
Scientology was banned in Greece. If they can do it, why can't we?
lurholm 2 years ago 3
Even though I hav e NEVER used a scifag vid and have NEVER hosted a vid unless given permission, I am being taken down for infringement Have tried to respond to complaints, no response. Don't even bother with jewtube; we need another avenue
WinrarIsMe 2 years ago
you need to get the facts right this is so left field, the test was created at oxford university you muppet!!!! fact 7 muppet!! where did you dig that one up you need to get a life!!!!
Lynchy1001 2 years ago
About getting the facts right. The Oxford University has nothing to do with that silly test Hubbard scraped together, despite the name he made up for it..
The current "OCA" personality test is credited to Hubbard. It was credited to Mary Sue Hubbard after Ray Kemp had refused to assign the copyright to Hubbard - his test was changed slightly to become Mary Sue's. Kemp copied the test from Julia Salman's American Capacity Analysis, which in turn derives from the '40s Johnson Temperament Analysis.
aambeeld 2 years ago
and now you know what it feels like to have bullshit stated !!! get a life Muppet!!!!!
let other people get on with theirs!!!
Lynchy1001 2 years ago
Comment removed
aambeeld 2 years ago
and your a masterbater!!!!! and you cant climb
Lynchy1001 2 years ago
The main problem with Scientologists is that they seem to be so far gone past the realm of sanity, logic and common sense that you cannot possibly reason with them.
I don't know if Lynchy1001 is a proponent of Scientologivemeabreak, but she is helping to prove my point. Somehow she feels that nonsense followed by illogical statements, following unjustified and ridiculous assertions is the same as saying something worthwhile.
Can't wait for the end of Scientology!
Smudge4C 2 years ago
The end of Scientology - never come. At least while the opposition to it will stay that unorganized.
jfunf 2 years ago
Scientology is a detriment to all that mankind has been striving for for at least the last few hundred years.
It's hard for the opposition to be organized, because even Scientologists don't really have a clue what they're talking about, let alone everyone else.
"pshooouw", "I'm an SP and you're a squirrel", "After years of being a Scientologist, I really didn't have a clue...now I get it", etc. Not to mention the fact that most Scientologists have no idea about the core beliefs of Scientology.
Smudge4C 2 years ago
I suspect that You 're actually not a real Sc. Or you never used Sc, applied it. If you would you would not claim that "...Scientologists don't really have a clue what they're talking about..". You see it actually works. You would also know that generalizing and dont see the difference is the manifestation of the reactive part of the human mind. The one i do not consider wise.
jfunf 2 years ago
Generalizing is a way to make a comment about a group of people efficiently and to the highest accuracy possible given a limited amount of time. Generalizing isn't a bad thing just because it's generalizing.
Is it possible to have a discussion/debate with a Scientologist without every difference of opinion being blamed on "the reactive mind"?
Plus, I have no idea what an Sc is. And nor do I care to. If you're going to invent your own language, then keep it to yourself.
Smudge4C 2 years ago
Generalizing not a bad thing. But it becomes bad once you exchange the real facts with it .
"Is it possible...on "the reactive mind"?"
It is possible. But i do not understand the point of our debate. What you're trying to achieve/understand/prove by this discussion/debate?
jfunf 2 years ago
I'm trying to show that you are being close-minded and ignorant about all the problems that Scientology has caused.
If all these same stories/statistics had come out about Raelianism instead of Scientology, you probably would've believed them 100%, but yet you refuse to accept this because it is about your own "religion".
I also hope to support the Anti-Scientology side of things, because I am of the opinion that Scientology has some goodness, but overall does more harm than good to the world.
Smudge4C 2 years ago
Ok. So if you want to show my ignorance and that i'm being close-minded about all(?) problems that Scientology has caused then why wouldn't you discuss the exact problems it caused?
All we're talking about is that - whats my English skills are, who scientologists are, and so on. But those are subjective thoughts.
About ignorance - i will not retort to you on that cause we're alike on our approach to each other. I'm just never saying it. Whats important - is WHY we think that way of each of us.
jfunf 2 years ago
Because this video does well to outline some (definitely not all) of the problems that have been caused by Scientology in the past, and despite all the evidence which supports this, you refuse to see this.
I'm trying to get you to realize that you can't disbelieve things you see/hear JUST because it's about your own religion.
Smudge4C 2 years ago
I also wonder - why you need to prove to me my "ignorance" about problems Scientology caused?
I suspect that you think that by making me to understand the amount of problems it caused you can make me quit it? Is that what you want?
jfunf 2 years ago
No. I have no problem with you choosing to believe that Scientology is the best thing ever - as long as you are aware of everything that Scientology has done that's both good AND bad.
My only problem is if you choose to ignore the problem that Scientology has caused and still believe in it.
Smudge4C 2 years ago
Ok. My point is - I'm well aware of the so-called "problems" people say it caused. I just got trouble RECEIVING any reliable data about the actual facts.all i see - is the text online. No scans. Not even the slightest link to an exact page, book, context.
jfunf 2 years ago
The other thing is that Scientology is not about belief. Its about certain ways to achieve certain state of the mind. thats it. So the correct sentence probably would be that as i'm aware of "problems" i should stop applying it to my life - right?
jfunf 2 years ago
If it's so - then you understand that to make myself quit out of the Scientology - i have to base my opinion on a very reliable information. I mean VERY reliable. After all - Scientology is very important part of my life and i have to VERY SURE of the "facts" media, or the guys like you present to me. It's not about "brainwashed", or "close minded" - it's about simple priorities of life which every guy has. So i'm opened to research any facts you could provide to me.
jfunf 2 years ago
Question is that can you provide any fact of which you can think as a reliable to yourself to base your life on?
jfunf 2 years ago
Don't you think it's odd that you're paying for a feeling you get through hypnotic induction?
Why is it not free anyway? Why does it cost so much hm?
drewd1987 2 years ago
1. If you don't know what you're talking about - at least be silent - cause it will make smarter looking. I've audit people, and auditors had audited me - and i tell you it has nothing to do with hypnosis.
jfunf 2 years ago
When/if you get into the upper OT levels, remeber this.. Xenu and aliens and shit. Then you will know that we're telling the truth. That's the crazy shit scientology is about. Only speaking the truth to help you.
drewd1987 2 years ago
What do you know about "truth"? Or, as in - everyone got his own truth eh? Is that what you mean? Xenu? aliens? What the hell are you talking about?
jfunf 2 years ago
When you get to the higher OT levels, they will tell you about thetans and aliens and "lord xenu" and all that BS. Then you will know I'm telling the truth. And when that time comes, you will realize that I've been trying to help you, and you are welcome to talk to me if you need any support to leave the cult.
drewd1987 2 years ago
They will tell you the concept about thetan much earlier then you get to the 1st step on path to Clear even. Xeny can be compared to Christ tale in turn. As for your trying to help consider this - I was going to study Sc. To be able to help myself. Instead of giving others to cram down my throat anything (regarding how you put that).
jfunf 2 years ago
And if you just want people to live Sc - and therefore to stop helping themselves or trying to control their choice of ways helping themselves - i think it's a fair thing to at least give them a substitute to their current study which you consider as a wrong path. If its actually possible - cause how they can compare whats better - yours or others theory but by not studying both and deciding who's better.
jfunf 2 years ago
There are churches of sci that you don't have to pay for, did you know that?
Look up freezone. You study sci and get audits, it's members who left sci because of the abuses of the church itself, but they still believe in sci.
drewd1987 2 years ago
I know about freezone. I don't want to go to them however. As for free - imagine that field auditors in Sc - either have to audit you for free - or for a price not lower then in sc organisations. Its a skill and therefore its business. freezone dont have a good ethics though. I trust them much less the SeaOrg even cause they do base their info on some data i cannot check. therefore i consider my way in Sc as a rogue one.
jfunf 2 years ago
I have a question.. if sci is a business as you have stated, then why are they not taxed? And why do they claim to be a religion?
About auditing, don't you think sometimes they maybe.. trick you into believing something that isn't real? Or never happened?
drewd1987 2 years ago
i dont know about field auditors - i think they pay tax. they're not religious organsations - therefore they have to pay tax and they do. if they would not - they will make a crime - and therefore they'll become unethical and they cant audit cause of that and so on. so they have to pay and they do.
jfunf 2 years ago
Freezone - just gives you some data. some of it - can be invented by freezoners. If i want to study it - o choose to study it from the first hands.
jfunf 2 years ago
But you admit sometimes you get depressed. Well, friend, I am never depressed and I don't even use "tech". Now, if tech really worked, it would mke you happy all the time, but it doesn't.
It's alright to ask questions, but of course sci will never tell you the truth, that's the problem with "first hand" information. You have to ask those questions yourself and contrast what sci says to what the real world says. Then you will find happiness, friend :)
drewd1987 2 years ago
Really? I'm so glad for you. but i'm in a different place then you. In Russia. If you got here - i'd see how you feel. Love of my life got cancer. and so on. I do not want you to pity me - i just say that its not so easy task to withstand all this dont you think - yet i manage. Using tech.
jfunf 2 years ago
I'm sorry that happened to you :( Sometimes it's better to move on and start over with life rather than running away from problems. I don't think you really ever needed tech, I think you needed friends and support. But that shouldn't cost anything, while tech does :( How much have you spent on it? And how much do you work? How much sleep do you get?
I get 9 hours sleep a night :) It's good for the mind.
drewd1987 2 years ago
You know what i figured - that you're a pretty wise man. Its funny - but you are against Sc - because you got wrong data. If only you knew what i know - you would think differently. because you're not an ignorant blabber. Sometimes you have to be with people to help them - she is ill - but its not easy. she is fighting - and she nedds my support. but she is weak and therefore she is emotional and in certain depression. Now how can you be close to this influence and withstand it ? with
jfunf 2 years ago
"Sometimes you have to be with people to help them - she is ill - but its not easy. "
The better question is - how do you think it makes her feel that you turn your back on her? She is the ill one after all. Don't you think she needs you in her last months/years of life? Don't you think that you should make the most of the time that's left? I think you should consider her feelings - how does she feel about being abandoned? :(
drewd1987 2 years ago
You misunderstood - I didnt at all. She is not being abandoned . i guess you've misunderstood.
jfunf 2 years ago
what i meant is that she is in a state of mental instability - in short - she is spilling acid to the guys around her. and i can withstand it - as i know how to fight with suppresion better then regular guy.
jfunf 2 years ago
What is suppression?
drewd1987 2 years ago
Its when someone trying to stop someone from doing something.
jfunf 2 years ago
"You know what i figured - that you're a pretty wise man"
Thank you for the compliment. Are you eally 35? The surely you know about the things the KGB used to do? What I'm explaining is that the same techniques of subverstion the KGB and CIA used, sci also uses on people. Just because they don't tell you what to think doesn't mean they aren't using suggestive thinking techniques. I say it's better to be a free man against an insane world than a slave who serves others and doesn't live free.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Im 33. About technics - i said you just do not know the picture completely. If you would approach it with open mind you would find it useful. But you see - i notice that your position - better to insure to not be "brainwashed" then actually research. thats a position non the less. Everybody got their own priorities. You see - the point is that you tend to bel.. to be shure that you're currently "free". but the point is - that you think of this reality as of the only possible one.
jfunf 2 years ago
In fact however - i approve the possibility that the world we live in - is not a free world, so to speak. and i do not mean russia allthough its a multiplied truth for Russia current state. But i mean different thing.
jfunf 2 years ago
Yes I understand that most things are not free - but price is determined by cost of resources. And for as something as simple as what you are paying for, it shouldn't cost more than a few bucks. Certainly on tens of thousands. I mean really, for that much money they could provide much better facilities and services, don't you think?
drewd1987 2 years ago
I think that your and mine choice is to use their services or learn to do it by ourselves better then they do. Thats all.
jfunf 2 years ago
Comment removed
drewd1987 2 years ago
I'm no more under indentured servitude as you are. we have to pay for all we acquire throughout of our life - its our priority to pay for what more suits us.
Thanks.
Sc - will never "take over the world". But i hope that in time people will become ready to make a deeper research into subject rather then base their occlusions on doubtful data fed to them by media. By overcoming lies they will be able to see things as they are.
jfunf 2 years ago
It happened with science once. Regardless middle ages church policy - science endured. Jordan Bruno were burned for it but look were we are now. the same will happen to Sc. hopefully.
jfunf 2 years ago
"It happened with science once."
Scientology and the study of factual science are two different things. Scientology has nothing to do with the study of science of church persecution.. Scientology is mere brainwashing. It is a pyramid scheme. It is a mafia.
drewd1987 2 years ago
First of all - please be vary to the terms. for instance - Scientology itself - just a certain instructions. SeaOrg - is the actual organization which moves Scientology to the public. So "Scientology" itself - cannot be "mafia" by definition. as for SeaOrg - - I've already said that there are a lot of info - positive and negative. but i trust only what i found out.
jfunf 2 years ago
Will you trust them even if they lock you up? Keep you from the outside world? Hit you? Threaten you?
Do you have no soul? No conscious mind? No sense of self or life or desire? No dreams? No independence? Instinct? Is there anything in there? Have you lost your mind???
drewd1987 2 years ago
If they ever treat me like you said - I'll live immediately. they know it - therefore they'll never do it( i hope).
I got what you got. dont see the point of you wondering.
jfunf 2 years ago
"they'll never do it( i hope)."
You hope?
Now you wouldn't believe they would abuse you, now, would you?
And if they were, it's silly to want to be around people who want to control you.
drewd1987 2 years ago
The science Jordan Bruno was burned for is the science we all know as "common reality" It is the real, factual reality that we all live in, collectively.
It is the reality that allows all of us to co-exist.
If you really want to get into that, I can say that all religion - catholic, christianity, sci, all of them are bad for humanity. The mind was not meant to be manipulated. Man was meant to be free. Brainwashing is on a whole new level of evil; more than tyrannical dictatorship.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Furthermore, Jordan Bruno would have advocated scientific based studies such as sociology and PSYCHOLOGY.
Sci is attacking the study of psychology. I wonder why? Because they want to silence those who know the truth. They want to destroy all information that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that sci is, in fact, proven by science, a dangerous brainwashing cult.
drewd1987 2 years ago
And ironic as it is - you are the one who believes in fairy tales while I try to use logic and reason as Jordan Bruno did.
In my beliefs, I have more in common with that - fact - than sci's do. Sci's are the one's who wish to destroy anyone who speaks out against the organization.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Sc its easier then without it. Sc just a way to overcome obstacles. thats it. Yes friends are good - but sometimes they tend to dissolve. and with Sc - you understand wider reasons of such dissolving of friendship. and you can predict it.
jfunf 2 years ago
tech does not exchange itself to the solution of problems - it actually helps you to solve them more effectively.
jfunf 2 years ago
How? By thinking collectively rather than individually?
drewd1987 2 years ago
Sci - will never tell you that you should take anything it says for granted. If you do - than you're a number one candidate to be robbed. You HAVE to check and figure it out yourself. and when you experienced that its true - its TRUE..:)
jfunf 2 years ago
You wouldn't happen to be lying to me and yourself, now, would you?
drewd1987 2 years ago
You said that there sci is a business, yet here they claim to be a religion and don't pay taxes.
They seem to contradict themselves, don't they?..
It couldn't be that they are deceptive and simply after money, it couldn't be that,.... could it?
drewd1987 2 years ago
they do not contradict themselves cause they put it like religion - valuable study about supernatural. thetan - are supernatural. Yet is science - religion. they are after money also - but as a main moving factor of this world.
jfunf 2 years ago
Maybe it works differently in Russia, but it's doubtful.
How many hours do you work a week and what do they pay you? That's the important question.
drewd1987 2 years ago
well.. In russia you have to work a month for a sum of 1000$ - and thats a good wager. but due to my demands(Sc.) I had to choose the alternative route and create my own business which allowed me - in turn - to recieve much more.
jfunf 2 years ago
So you created your own business, but how much of your money does sci take?
And why would you work so much, yet all the money you make, you end up paying for something so simple?
drewd1987 2 years ago
You see - thats the concept. YOU think that you pay for "something so simple" just because you think it's "not valuable". but i wonder - why question the price - if you're not interested in value? I mean - really? why could anyone care about the price other have to put on their subject to sell it? Isn't it theirs business? Isn't yours to buy or not to buy depending on your acceptance of the price offered?
jfunf 2 years ago
I wonder why guys - who against Sc - and says that "its a crap" - always say something about expensiveness. Do the intend to use it if it were cheap? Does the expensiveness - is the reason why they say to others - "its a crap"?
jfunf 2 years ago
Comment removed
drewd1987 2 years ago
Why not Thompson? :)
jfunf 2 years ago
Do you know why x-sci's become x-es? for instance you got wife and husband - and they're in divorce. Each of them will blame the opposite side. I do not know Miscavige. But i'd like to hear his side of the story . But he wont waste time on explanations. As of "talks" - well people can talk all they want , don't they?
jfunf 2 years ago
"But he wont waste time on explanations"
So you spend all of your money to line his pockets, yet your questions are not important to him?
Not that he'd tell you the truth anyway, being the sociopath that he is.
drewd1987 2 years ago
People leave scientology because it isn't right to be enslaved, put in a prison, beaten, abused, psychologically tormented and used by a ruthless cult. One day you will realize that I'm not lying to you.
drewd1987 2 years ago
? Enslaved? Put to prison? Beaten? Abused? whoa...thats a big talk. I never experienced any of this in 10 years. Neither my friends. But i heard about it. 10 years ago. from psychiatrists.
jfunf 2 years ago
That's a lie. You are lying. Psychiatrist don't do those things.
And I bet you have experienced those things. What would happen if you left sci today? They would threaten you. They would try to hurt you. You can't deny this.
Let me guess, they tell you it's bad to think for yourself? They tell you it's bad to ask questions? Well they are wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting to leave something or to ask questions or to think about anything you like. It is your life and your mind.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Whats a lie? Psychiatrists said - i never said that they HAD camps. But psychiatrists are the ones against Sc. because Sc against them. so they're one of the guys who are interested in you to repeat what they "coached" you to(and many other guys who "repeat").
jfunf 2 years ago
I guess that you think that can't live cause they'll sue me?
I can live anytime. In fact i wasn't there for several years. So what? Nothing. All they do - sometimes(1 time in 2 years) call me and ask me if i 'll return.
jfunf 2 years ago
I don't believe a word you say. I have seen so many videos of sci's attacking people. On the news, articles and various other sources.
And even if you left for 2 years, you would not have gone back.
drewd1987 2 years ago
So now we come to a beliefs of YOURS. :) Ok. so you saw videos - well give me a links. Attacking people. Hmph..I'd like to see it. And i tell you - I left for 6 years. And i can come back any moment. Because i never left like McGoo did. I never been an attacker of Sc. I just paused. But if i can pause for 60 years it can be considered as "snapped out of it".
jfunf 2 years ago
You wrong in your guessing. I think for myself all the time. they do not tell me anything - they do not teach me anything. And you can ask questions - but to the person from whom you want to hear answers from - not from guy from the street who does not have a clue how they could answer to you for a Miscavige man.
jfunf 2 years ago
They indoctrinate you. Your responses to my questions are the same as every other sci. Distorted facts, blatant lies, it's like talking to a wall.
How could you ever get any truth if the same people who are manipulating you the only one's you seem to trust? Get out of that box. I mean you no harm.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Well - yes. Because what can i answer to the same old fashioned black propaganda media fed you with? You think i should invent different explanations anytime i hear the guy who says something ridiculous? The truth about Sc is one - and all gys like me tells you the actual way of things. What else are you expecting to hear?
jfunf 2 years ago
just one of many attacks watch?v=FBztJxSxZ_8
I can show you many.
watch?v=0xn7cNdtqwU
drewd1987 2 years ago
and thats it?
ok. 1st. Girl was taped on video. I guess against her will. what her protection of her rights has to do with Scientology?
I can put masks of Anons on 10 of my friends - give the hammers to each of them and ask them to rudely talk to me and push my camera twice. Take two guys with me and ask them to say "Achtung" - and then tape all this stuff about attackers - on video. Put it here. and guys like you will buy it..:) Is that what you expect me to do?
jfunf 2 years ago
I expect to hear the truth. Not distorted lies.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Can you handle the truth? you just so brainwashed with lies about Sc - that even when i tell you something real - and normal - you can't believe it and call me a liar.
jfunf 2 years ago
You're saying that the FBI and TIME who both investigated, in detail, the evil and lies don't by sci are lying?
Sci tapes everything so they can twist the truth to you and use it to lie to you more.
Anyway, I tried my best to help you, but it's obvious your mind is too closed to see the truth.
drewd1987 2 years ago
FBI - under government. TIME under government. whatever government says - they'll make. Sc was in Nixon's LIST since 50's. Nixon was a crook.I don't believe that FBI suddenly changed their policy.
And i dont believe journalists - cause i see where they invent their conclusions. for instance - you will never find anywere in Sc books that E-meter - is a lie detector. and its cost is cheap.
jfunf 2 years ago
The FBI does not "make" anything up. TIME is an independent news organization.
Nixon may have done bad - but he was also doing good be investigating your dangerous cult.
drewd1987 2 years ago
"The FBI does not "make" anything up."
keep believing...:)
"TIME is an independent news organization."
Yeah, right.
even not from a Sc protection point of view - those remarks can be considered quite naive..:)
jfunf 2 years ago
Of course they won't tell you that the E meter is a lie detector.. Why would anyone who wanted to control you tell the truth?
They only tell half of the truth to keep you clueless.
drewd1987 2 years ago
following this - i can accuse anyone. I can say that someone is a pervert and then he say - no i'm not - i say of course you tell half the truth, othervise you'll be placed in jail. thats a classic way to make a defamation ..:) You just make yourself right - you twist the facts so you would seem to be right about it. and you're not alone. Any of ofencive things spoken about Sc - cannot withstand pure logic.
jfunf 2 years ago
But you can find it here.
watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI
5:47
and after it you can find it repeated here
watch?v=jyp37GuFDyk&feature=related
jfunf 2 years ago
You just can't offer any truth, mate. all you telling me - i heard. I never got any proof though. Nature of the man i guess.
jfunf 2 years ago
I have offered proof. You simply choose to ignore it.
Nature of man to yourself! Nature of man to always blindly follow leaders - even to their death!
drewd1987 2 years ago
What you've offered - two flicks - both doubtful...i said why. I nevere recieve no real info about Sc - can it even be provided trough the Internet? And regardless - myself - is my guide. I do not trust anyone completely - not your information sources nor them. What i did though - i did better research Sc then you did. and i see the picture more clearly i guess. what you do - you just blame them - and i have no idea why.
jfunf 2 years ago
If you're too brainwashed to watch the thousands of videos of testimony by x sci's and videos made by people who know sci is a cult, you are brainwashed.
Didn't hubbard say that reality is what the majority thinks is true? Hmmm..
There are more disbelievers than there are believers...
And I will leave you with that, because frankly, I have better things to do - like have fun and do whatever I want, whenever I want.
Something you will never acheive in sci.
drewd1987 2 years ago
"Didn't hubbard say that reality is what the majority thinks is true? Hmmm.."
I dont know.
jfunf 2 years ago
"There are more disbelievers than there are believers..."
there are more believers. Cause you are a believer. you believe "facts". I do not believe. I prefer to research and find out. Its easy to sit at home do nothing and watch you tube and internet on which base your opinion upon.
jfunf 2 years ago
And I will leave you with that, because frankly, I have better things to do - like have fun and do whatever I want, whenever I want.
Something you will never acheive in sci.
Oh, now we're talking. So you claim that you know what i do and when? and do i want to do what i do? I can say about you the same. doubt that it will be the truth though.
I can say that yeah anyone can do what they want here. We're all die anyway. Have fun. I'm after something more then just fun.
jfunf 2 years ago
Have fun with neurolinguistic programming then.
drewd1987 2 years ago
in fact NLP- is a useful thing - though it have nothing to do with Sc. when dilettantes talk - they can only find similarities. experienced ones - can see the differences. And NLP involves intense communication. and comes from the other person. Auditing - only several questions. And all other stuff related to self-NLP - not even researched enough to be claimed as the truth. Yet people think they have the authority to place marks on things.
jfunf 2 years ago
Whatever you want to believe. I don't even care anymore. Have a good life.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Finally.
jfunf 2 years ago
I do not understand how come you think od a Sc as a cult - i mean the Book - book is not a cult. have you read any sc books?
jfunf 2 years ago
watch?v=f4ALoW_yppI
Watch the whole thing with an open mind if you have the balls.
drewd1987 2 years ago
ok. I saw it.
jfunf 2 years ago
watch?v=f4ALoW_yppI
yup. I saw that. some guy behind the camera, gives bs about what auditing is. no basis. Just pure accusations. I do not believe this. Becides i know what is auditing and i know what people do and what they feel - as i've tried it. And what he says - has nothing to do with what i felt. Orgasmic? Get outa here...:)
jfunf 2 years ago
I got truth from myself - i believe them no more then i believe you. 50x50. but when i see lie in media - i spot it easily - because i know how things are. From my very own experience. Lies - comes from journalists. Journalists create public opinion on the subject(any subject) byt the order of government. There are no independent press. CNN? Blah..
jfunf 2 years ago
Sci attacks journalists because they expose the truth.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Those guys who you call "journalists" - are not real "journalists". Real journalists ask for permission to make a report. To photoshoot a person.
This guys - are guys with the camera.
they're just mischiefs cause they got nothing valuable to do in life.
watch?v=9D7WzCDT_0s
jfunf 2 years ago
That isn't true. They are professional investigative journalists.
drewd1987 2 years ago
watch?v=hxqR5NPhtLI
I call it not proffesional.
jfunf 2 years ago
watch?v=hxqR5NPhtLI
^^ That is a result of Tommy stalking, harassing, threatening and yelling at the reporter.
Did you even bother to watch the entire documentary by BBC?
drewd1987 2 years ago
regardless. Sweeney loses it - its unprofessional. there is no excuse.
jfunf 2 years ago
Regardless, there is no excuse for what scientology does to people. Scientology is a disgusting crime against humanity.
drewd1987 2 years ago
i saw.
jfunf 2 years ago
I do not work for them btw. I never been agreed with their price policy and still dont get it of why it costs so much.
jfunf 2 years ago
I think it's good you question the price policy.. it seems that behind the facade, all they really care about is money.
Now that couldn't be true, could it?
drewd1987 2 years ago
"it seems that behind the facade, all they really care about is money."
Maybe so - maybe no.
jfunf 2 years ago
In auditing - they do not say anything to you. they do not tell you how you should do or what - what they do - they ask. You tell. they write. then they get that to Case Supervisor. He study their writings of their dialog with you and he offers a certain rundowns to be applied. thats how it happens.
jfunf 2 years ago
I mean i have to take courses but i doubt i'll be with them - i agree that some of their things like games and certain look - makes me feel uncomfortable - i do not like certain aspects in their behavior myself. but i understand from where it come from and i see the motives much more clearly then some anons do for instance.
jfunf 2 years ago
If they make you uncomfortable and pressure you, then you shouldn't let that happen to you. Please friend, watch this movie and think deeply about what happens in sci.
watch?v=EBK5aKOr2Fw
drewd1987 2 years ago
I saw. Great movie, Yes - some of the things stated there - can be compared to what happens inside the Sc. But i doubt that any of those alone can be a sign of a cult. IMO they all must be in one place. and even that there is a small possibility that its not a cult. For instance - Army - is a cult? Or gym - is a cult?
and i also want to notice that it's not writing which makes cult - it's people. Peaople starting to behave - and noble orgs start to collapce cause of human not cause of tech.
jfunf 2 years ago
The army does not brainwash people. The army doesn't tell you what to believe or even suggest you have to believe something.
Clearing the planet would mean that everyone would work with no pay to make the leaders rich. It's the same thing Christianity did a long time ago.
And you notice how sci uses cult tactics, so you know they must be a cult.
Now, you wouldn't think you don't like sci anymore , would you?
drewd1987 2 years ago
Army does brainwash people. in fact any activity including life brainwash people into believing that they're just bodies.:) Whats brainwash is it to make someone to believe in certain concept? but do we know who we are? yet there are a lot of "explanations". As for Sci - i do not like cult - do i consider them a cult - No.
jfunf 2 years ago
Yes brainwashing is a deceptive way to make someone believe something. We can't get our explainations from any religion or business, or any other person. That is what they believe. We have to ask ourselves what we truely believe, not what we're suggested to believe. It's not wrong to question, including sci.
drewd1987 2 years ago
exactly. but that does not believe that if someone tend to assure that something possible = he was brainwashed. You have to find out for yourself - but the time you do - you will no loger believe - you'll know. untill you know you believe that it's can be possible. In Sc - you check all the things if they're true for you - thats why i started it in the first place.
jfunf 2 years ago
Ok. Imagine that when you come to Sc and learn some basic courses - you became more powerful then you were before you did. so you can withstand any suppression better - even theirs. so - they make you more powerful to withstand their own oppression - make no sense if you ask me. Point is - they do not suppress you. and what they do - they provide you with correct technology.
jfunf 2 years ago
I'm sorry but I don't agree my friend. Technology is a computer. Technology is not psychology or hypnosis or the use of a lie detector test to manipulate people.
drewd1987 2 years ago
do you know what hypnosis is and how it works? So you know that some people are immune to hypnosis?
jfunf 2 years ago
"So you know that some people are immune to hypnosis? "
Yes but you can be hypnotised if you want to be - and you want to believe sci is real. Do you understand that by believing in sci you have allowed yourself to be hypnotised?
drewd1987 2 years ago
believing in Sc = agreeing to be hypnotized? - I do not agree. If i follow Sc = I'm under hypnosis - I do not agree completely. Just because Sc is blamed anyone can say that its followers are hypnotized just because they follow it - thats ridiculous. who decides which way is not hypnosis?
jfunf 2 years ago
Otherwise its a blind following from their side and therefore - it can be compared to a religion dependency - were you become a prophet - wouldn't you agree?
jfunf 2 years ago
2. It cost "so much" when YOU think of it that for you it has no value. Thats why for you its "so much" because you dont know what it does. What it gives. So it's understandable. But that doe not mean that it has no value in general just because you don't know what value it has for you. so it's actually not so expensive. and there are ways to lower the cost. Question is - how much would you be ready to pay?
jfunf 2 years ago
It's like a fix to a junky. All they do is overload the mind and force you to believe something that has NEVER happened to you. Have you done any research on Erickson's hypnotic induction? I know it's hard for you to understand, and even harder to admit that you've been had by the cult, but research. The truth is out there. Do you remeber before you joined sci? I bet you were actually more logical, happier.
drewd1987 2 years ago
Yes i remember. No i wasn't logical or happier. As for the Erickson - he got a theory - just as Hubbard did. what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory?
jfunf 2 years ago
" what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory? "
The information about Hubbard is fact. The FBI has documented Hubbards life. DM lied to Hubbard by the way, and took over Hubbards ideas. Sci would be fine if it weren't run in such a sadistic manner.
Peace! And research freezone. :)
drewd1987 2 years ago
whats DM?
jfunf 2 years ago
" what makes you certain of the truthfulness of Ericson's theory rather then Hubbard's theory? "
I do not care about LRH info - true or false it may be,it does not add or subtract from the usefulness of the tech invented.mean i checked tech to some extent and it works.For instance i do not need psychologists help to help myself.Can fix my daylife when i want as i understand whats the source of trouble.got depressions sometimes but i know what to do to get out of it.
jfunf 2 years ago
This is what tech really is, watch it with an open mind, and compare it with your own experience with scientology:
watch?v=EBK5aKOr2Fw
drewd1987 2 years ago
As for aliens - do you want to be in position of an eye-opener for me? What do YOU believe in?
jfunf 2 years ago
I believe that no one can ever really KNOW the answers to life by the word of other men. Religion in itself is evil because we simple will NOT know until we die, if there even is anything after death. I follow my own heart, not what others have crammed down my throat to believe. I don't need to be threatened by God or thetans or hell to be a good person. I am because I am.
I don't agree with $cientology because they violate the most basic human rights. How is it freedom when you can't leave?
drewd1987 2 years ago
Ok. So your position and mine - is similar. Yet. "religion" - is a valuable knowledge, study - and therefore its evil in certain definition. After all - without religion - you cant explain the supernatural. Religion - is one of such explanations - wouldn't you agree? I study - whats said in $c. books - because I'm wondering. Don't get me wrong that i blindly follow what it says. But what I've experienced - "i KNOW" - rather then "I believe".
jfunf 2 years ago
Listen I agree with you TOTALLY :)
If you want to believe in sci, if it makes you happy, go for it. My problem is that there is no excuse for people, even children, being treated they way they are by sci.
Honestly tell me, if you wanted to leave, would they not fair game you? Why are they so afraid of people asking questions? Why so secretive and vengeful? Religion is supposed to be caring right? So why are people who leave or don't support the chuch spied on and terrorized?
drewd1987 2 years ago
If you live thay dont. If you fight with them - they will as you're becoming offencive. they tend to stop you. they dont abandon all hopes for you though as their goal to Clear the whole planet.
jfunf 2 years ago
That's the problem, people have the right to believe what they want. And clearing the whole planet would also mean world domination, which is evil itself. I'm sorry, but there are no alien souls in me. LRH was a science fiction writer dude. But I think you're smart enough to figure that out some day, friend :)
drewd1987 2 years ago
People do. clearing the planet - its just a motto. and no its not the world domination - allthough it is..:) the point is - once you clear the planet - people will become really aware of who they are. and they will understand whats truth and whats not. so technically - Scientology bacome the world religion. but the goal - not to become a world religion but clear the minds of the human beings.
jfunf 2 years ago
You can't disagree with $c - because $c is a technology. And it itself cannot violate anything - its just a text. Who's violating - is a human beings or organization. their mistaken or wrong policy have nothing to do with a value of the knowledge itself.
jfunf 2 years ago
and you're free to leave. But you wont. You see - in case you have a certain knowledge - you can only stop learning it. But if you'll stop learning it until you've learned it completely - you will have a feeling of unfinished study - and cant help but wonder if you are able to receive what you expected - if you would finish studying it.
jfunf 2 years ago
I understand you want to help yourself, but I believe that there's no better guidance then your own heart, and nothing better for support than real friends. Follow what you believe.
Remeber, there is a free sci called freezone if you don't believe you can pay. And remeber - would real friends make you feel guilty for wanting to leave your religion? Or would they support your decision and wish you the best of luck?
Ask yourself - are these people real friends or do they care more about sci?
drewd1987 2 years ago
I do have to say thank you for being so nice and having an open conversation with me. Other sci's are a bit rude and don't like to talk much. You're a cool person even if you are into sci :)
drewd1987 2 years ago
no problem.
jfunf 2 years ago
He also must pay off eight law firms that worked on contingency over the years."The cult that vowed it would never pay me one thin dime has now paid over 86 million thin dimes."
jacksprack73 2 years ago
Yesterday, as a Los Angeles Superior Court judge was set to begin yet another hearing, the Church of Scientology of California suddenly threw in the towel.
At 8:17 a.m., the church deposited $8,674,843 with the court clerk, ending the case.
Wollersheim said "significant amounts" of the judgment are owed to people who loaned him money on faith that he would eventually prevail
jacksprack73 2 years ago
But attorneys for Wollersheim said the church evaded payment by setting up corporate shells and employing endless hardball legal tactics, based on Hubbard policies that aim to ruin ex-members who sue the church. "Twenty-two years is extraordinary," attorney Ford Greene said.
As the battle went on, the $2.5 million judgment -- upheld in 1994 by the U.S. Supreme Court -- collected interest at the statutory 10 percent rate
jacksprack73 2 years ago
The total was reduced on appeal to $2.5 million. But Scientology officials vowed they would pay "not one thin dime for Wollersheim," and members were rallied to chant that slogan at hearings.Church attorney William Drescher yesterday blamed Wollersheim in part for the long delay in resolving the case. "From what I understand, Wollersheim didn't make any effort to collect [the judgment] for 11 years," he said.
jacksprack73 2 years ago
Wollersheim,who suffered from a bipolar disorder, was forbidden to seek medical help under Scientology policies, he says. He quit the church after spending $150,000 on Hubbard's "mental health" regimes, and by 1980 had filed suit. In 1986, a jury awarded him $5 million in compensatory damages and $25 million to punish the church for what jurors called intentional and negligent "infliction of emotional distress."
jacksprack73 2 years ago
The ship was part of a mini-navy assembled by L. Ron Hubbard, the science fiction writer who created the church in the early 1950s.
Because of Scientology practices, "Wollersheim's mental condition worsened to the point he actively contemplated suicide," a California appeals court said in 1989. "The church's conduct was manifestly outrageous."
jacksprack73 2 years ago
I'm smiling," he said. "It's like being the first plaintiff to get a victory against the cigarette companies."Wollersheim, who ran a small photo business, joined Scientology in 1969 and later became a recruiter. He signed a "billion-year" contract to serve the church but says that he ended up being punished in a "thought reform gulag," consigned to the hold of a ship docked off California for 18 hours a day
jacksprack73 2 years ago