Great points. It's effective to kick off your argument with Genesis 3:22; the very beginning! I also do not believe that the soul has immortality by default. In fact, the Bible explicitly states it does not:
..the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who **only hath immortality**, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see... (1 Timothy 6:15-16)
Immortality is something we "put on" (1 Corinthians 15:53-54) through Him (2 Timothy 1:10).
After judgement, those who are not written in the book of life will be destroyed. Where Matthew 10:28 says.. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. This states that body and soul will be Destroyed some day in hell(hades) when this is completed Hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire. DESTROYED means An ACT of complete destruction. So we know that without Jesus those people are finished.
Where the bible speaks of the devil in the lake of fire for ever and ever.. each ever is a set amount of time, otherwise he would have said for eternity. Also concerning Hades(hell), we know that death and hades are thrown into the lake as well after they gave up the dead that were in them. When the rich man called for Lazarus to touch his tongue with water we can conclude that hades is a place of torment from Satan, where the lost await judgement and that Paradise is where the believers wait.
@BrandoSauce I agree with myoldteacher - but I understand what you're saying. I believe that nothing that man has experienced so far can prepare him for the experience of having his SOUL being put out of existance. The 'Lake of Fire' experience will be truly awful. But it will 'only' last for as long as it is warranted. Besides - God loves his creation. He WANTS ALL to come to HIm. I therefore believe that it is very imporant to evangelize even IF for that reason alone.
@BrandoSauce - Well the way I approach this is not to base a theological position around one verse (such as Mormons do with their practice of Baptizing the Dead), but I take what is the consistent teaching about immortality across Scripture and use it to explain verses such as this. As such, based on the fact that the Bible never teaches immortality for the unbeliever, this must refer to the everlasting and eternal consequences of judgement.
I suggest you read Rev 20:10> And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet "ARE", and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Your statement of eternal punishing Vs eternal punishment is flawed in the light of this Verse.
The beast and false prophet were cast there 1000 years before, and the Word says they "ARE" still there being punished.
@digger629 - My point in this video is that verses such as Rev 20:10 need to be read (and then re-read) in light of the consistent teaching across the whole of Scripture, that there is no eternal existence for the unbeliever. BTW - Not to pick holes, but Rev. 20:10 speaks only of the Devil and the false prophet, so IMO it would only apply to them!
Rev.20:10 does not only apply to the devil & his angels as far as where unbelievers will spend eternity being punished.
PROOF:
Matt 25:41> Then shall He say also unto THEM (unbelievers) on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Unbelievers are going to the lake of fire to be tormented forever also along with the devil & his angels.
@digger629 to suffer eternal death and separation from God is the worst punishment and eternal torment we could be subjected to. It's necessary to understand the difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing.
The wicked will one day be no more,all gone,they stand before god are judged and then are punished according to their deeds,and then become ashes,kapoot all gone. sin is destroyed death is destroyed!
When Scripture talks about fire that will not be quenched ("unquenchable fire") what it means is that the process of destruction is unstoppable or irreversible. It is important to understand just why God uses such terms in Scripture as "unquenchable fire".
too many wolves in sheeps clothing out there attacking the innocent with their man made doctrines! well i,m here to expose them for the lies they put forth,and i will continue to do so!
n Ezekiel 18:4 God said, "Behold all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die"
i have a video on my posted on my channel from the website Truth or tradition on hell it would be worth while to check out .John sheds light on the subject
amen to you ,i totally see that we both have the same views , i think there are too many confused individuals out there clinging to what the,ve been taught by their tradition rather than believe gods word and what it really says.
@timsh6 - According to the Bible, God created everything, and it would appear to have been done out of nothing! As such, the soul is a created thing, and as a created thing it can be destroyed and reduced to nothing, if God so chooses! I see no reason why the so-called [created] human soul is to be regarded as a permanent, eternal and immortal thing (unless you are a Hindu, and believe your soul is an eternal part of God).
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever who will live forever?
believe the bible over the traditions of man. i believe that traditions of man have blinded many to the truths of the bible.i,ll do my best with what knowledge i have recieved biblically to expose anything which contradicts the word of god! too many false teachers out there repeating the lie of the Devil,and often times those who follow tradition more than they do the word of god ,don,t like to be exposed!
The term forever is an unspecified amount of time,that,s how it is used in the bible especially in the book of revelations which uses mostly symbolic language.
The Bible is not ambiguous on the subject. While Jesus did make it very clear that there is a real hell (see Matthew 10:28), He explained something vitally significant in the parable of the wheat and the tares.
"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire," Jesus said, "so shall it be in the end of this world" (Matthew 13:40).
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever. God's immortality has never been in question. Do you believe that God has lied when He says a man can live forever? I cited a couple instances where the Bible teaches man can live for ever. Do you deny those Scriptures are true? Look for the posts. I shouldn't need to write them all over again.??? so if you burn forever then that means you cannot die ,does it not?
Taotag i understand much more than you,ll ever know! i,m not like your average brainwashed christian there who follows what my church teaches,i follow the word of god without the tradional blinders on,and you should start doing the same thing
Using your logic, prove that man does not have an immortal soul. Bible doesn't say he doesn't so man must have one. It's the same logic you wanna use to prove Jesus was giving a parable in Luke. It doesn't say it's not so it must be. That's just foolish. We could prove all kinds of things with that kind of thinking. A BIG LOL, YOU WANT PROOF WELL HERE IT IS TIMOTHY 6:16 READ IT!!!!!!!! GOD ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY! IT SAYS GOD ONLY NOT MAN!
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever. God's immortality has never been in question. Do you believe that God has lied when He says a man can live forever? I cited a couple instances where the Bible teaches man can live for ever. Do you deny those Scriptures are true? Look for the posts. I shouldn't need to write them all over again.
@timsh6 You may be reading God's Word but you're definitely NOT following what you're reading. How many people are going to Heaven? How does one get saved? Define what being born again means according to the Bible please.
@timsh6 Rev 14:9-11 "....If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,... ." Maybe you can explain this passage to me. I had to edit it to fit so look it up in context.
@Taotog - What do you want to know? If you are suggesting this passage proves the idea of eternal damnation, you are correct! It absolutely does show that the unbeliever will be forever out of the presence of God (i.e. hell). However, if you are then going to suggest that a highly symbolic passage, from a highly symbolic book in the Bible, proves that the unbeliever is in eternal torment - I'm not buying that! The consistent biblical teaching is eternal punishment - yes; eternal punishing - no!
Thank you for the invite, I appreciate the insightful site you have. I try to help as many people that I can with the bible truth about hell, inmortal soul teaching, I pastored a pentacostal church for several years until I finally realize that I was teaching false doctrines. READ THIS TAOTAG THIS IS FROM A FORMER PENTECOSTAL PREACHER WHO BELIEVED AS YOU DO
@timsh6 That is exactly what I said, Jesus was addressing the "multitudes" but the context says Jesus expounded His teaching to His disciples when they were alone. Jesus didn't teach the Apostles with parables, your own references (in context) say He taught the multitudes in parables.
Jesus addresses the crowd gathered at the shore, using a story (or "parable") to teach them about God's kingdom. He likens the kingdom to a farmer planting ..
@timsh6 "I don't need to look at the context" ?? I beg to differ friend, you DO need to look at the context because you're misrepresenting God's Word and you're doing it by taking verses out of context. Are you a Jehovah's Witness? It would explain a whole lot.
@timsh6 Now how is this possible if you are so insistent that man doesn't have an immortal soul? You're contradicting yourself. What do you think eternal life is if not immortality?
Matthew 13:34 (King James Version) 34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: THERE TAOTAG I DID EVEN BETTER,I PROVIDED TWO SCRIPTURES WHICH SAY THAT THE RICHMAN AND LAZARUS WAS A PARABLE!
@timsh6 The key to understanding Matt 13:34 and Mk 4:34 is that you must look at the context and ask who is the "them" that He spoke only in parables to? It was the "multitudes". Mk 4:34 says that Jesus expounded the meanings to the Apostles. Lk 16: 1 says Jesus was teaching the Apostles but the Pharisee were listening (vs 14). If Luke 16:19-31 is a parable then where did Jesus explain it to His Apostles? He always explained His parables to them. Lk 17:1 says He was still teaching His Apostles.
And Taotag it,s not just me who denies the immortal soul ,the bible does.There is not one scripture which states that man is immortal,Is man called immortal? what did job have to say about that ?Job "is mortal man more just than god?" is man called immortal according to the bible? no he is not!
@timsh6 Joh 6:51, 58 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever... he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." Does this passage mean a man can live forever or is it just a lie? Jn 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;..." Can the Comforter abide forever or not? If man cannot become immortal then how can the Comforter abide forever? Truth or lie?
Tao tag is immortality a gift? who receives it? proof that the richman and lazarus was a parable ,you want proof? that,s east matthew 13:34,mark 4:34 ,there you go.
only those in christ receive an immortal,eternal spiritual body! how,s that lavern,i,d love to flood your channel with plenty more scripture which proves you are wrong and a false prophet
As I look at the word of God I can see a lot of false teachings on tv (TBN) and how people are being mislead. Now when I speak to some Pastor's they become angry because I no longer embrace their man made doctrines. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the invite, I appreciate the insightful site you have. I try to help as many people that I can with the bible truth about hell, inmortal soul teaching, I pastored a pentacostal church for several years until I finally realize that I was teaching false doctrines.
time is running out Trustin jc better give everyone here an answer!! show us a scripture which states that man has an immortal soul ,and show us where it says that The richman and Lazarus is not a parable!!
@timsh6 Prove the Luke 16 story is not a parable? Just because it doesn't say it's not a parable doesn't mean it is and I covered this in another post anyway. Using your logic, prove that man does not have an immortal soul. Bible doesn't say he doesn't so man must have one. It's the same logic you wanna use to prove Jesus was giving a parable in Luke. It doesn't say it's not so it must be. That's just foolish. We could prove all kinds of things with that kind of thinking.
immortal means: uncorrupted; not liable to corruption or decay; imperishable; a state of being exempt from death; (deathless).Where int the bible does it say that we have an immortal soul Lavern?
ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Does the idea of friends or even family members burning forever and ever set your mind free? if your a person with an ounce of sanity then how could it?
They will say glibbly that we have an "immortal soul" yet nowhere in the 66 ... not say that all people who teach contrary to Scripture are false teachers.
rustin jc they don,t exist period,their dead ,the soul ceases to exist,the spirit(breath) life force which kept them alive from out of them is not with them it returned to god.We return to the dust from which we came,and there is "no soul" "no spirit" in the form of an invisible entity apart from the body which goes on living.Trustin jc if you believe otherwise then you apparently believe the devil more than you do god,"thou shall not surely die".
1)Trustin jc provide everyone here with a scripture which specifically states that man has an immortal soul! 2) provide a scripture which specifically states that The richman And Lazarus is not a parable
@timsh6 - The thing that really bothers me is why someone would insist that a loving/merciful God wants to torment someone in hell for all eternity? Also, such an idea does not fit well with the biblical picture of God renewing the heavens and the earth after judgment. How can heaven be a place of bliss if people know their loved ones are being eternally tormented? Aside from my comments in the video, these issues also suggest that eternal suffering is a problematic concept and unbiblical.
@myoldreteacher Is eternal life in Heaven really eternal or only temporary? And what verse says God WANTS to send people to Hell? Isn't it their own choice to go there by refusing the provision God has made for sin?
@Taotog - I agree, it seems people choose to go to hell (i.e. they choose to live apart from God). But in my understanding, the presence of God is a sustaining thing, so to be apart from that means you will not be sustained and thus - poof - you're gone! As for the other point about heaven being forever/eternal, I think it safe to assume that it is for ever, but you never know... God could suddenly decide to end the party and kick everyone out!
@myoldreteacher And you don't think there is a presence of God in Hell? Not familiar with Psalm 139:8? Are you aware of the omnipresence of God? That means He is everywhere. Hell is not the absence of the presence of God. Hell is where God pours out His wrath on the unbelieving wicked. Heaven is where He pours out His bliss. If you doubt the eternity of either His bliss in Heaven or His wrath in Hell then you are calling God a liar because His promise is that both are eternal. God cannot lie.
@timsh6 By your denial of an immortal soul can it be assumed that you don't believe there will be eternal life in Heaven? As for you request for a scripture that says the richman and Lazarus is not a parable I would ask you to produce one that says it is a parable. I think that is about as reasonable as your request.
Man is not immortal and the Bible plainly teaches that flesh and blood is subject to combustion and death: “‘You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3). The wicked shall be burned to ashes when they die the second death, from which there is never to be a resurrection (Revelation 20:6, 14).THE BIBLE IS SO CLEAR THAT EVEN A SMALL CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND!
The wicked are "reserved" until when? Until the "day of judgment. .... Peter states: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, ... He says this earth is reserved for that fire which will bring judgment and perdition to the wicked.
Malachi 4 1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Obadiah 1:16 (King James Version) 16For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been
Psalm 37:10 (King James Version) 10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that .... but ultimately the wages of sin is death, not eternal existence
Death is the termination of the biological functions that define a living organism. The word refers both to a particular process and to the condition that results thereby. The true nature of the latter has for millennia been a central concern of the world's religious traditions and of philosophical enquiry. Belief in some kind of afterlife or rebirth has been a central aspect of many religious traditions
he physical body is not eternal that,s right ,we all know that ,we are mortal ,subject to death.The righteous are gifted with immortality at jesus coming with a spiritualike body.Corruption must put on incorruption.
great message, I like to use Rev. 21:4 that tells us there is no more pain and crying and so on... so if there is no more, and the former things have passed away, then there can not be an on going torture and punishment. all the thing of the past are done away.
Death means death no life ! death means death no life nothing else, you either have the gift of eternal life or you don,t. god never said your going to live forever ,so you choose whether or not it,s going to be in heaven or hell,god never said this!!
@timsh6 Your definition of death is based on todays culture and understanding rather then a biblical understanding. Learn what the three deaths talked about in scripture are before you preach on the subject.
There are 3 kinds of death. Physical, spiritual, and eternal. The physical body is not eternal. That is what is spoken about in Genesis. When Adam sinned, spiritual death entered the world, not physical death, for we were not immortal yet in the physical sense.
when we are risen, it is in the spiritual and eternal sense. Those people judged unworthy will remain in spiritual death (seperated from God) for all eternity.
@TrustinJC - Not quite what I was saying. I was actually demonstrating that as far as the Bible is concerned, only the believer gains immortality. There is no 'eternity' for the unbeliever, as only the believer is given the gift of eternal life (i.e will live forever). Also, the actual ontological separation of the soul and body is a concept attributed to Plato and Descartes, but it is not something we find taught (as an ontological concept) in Scripture.
@myoldreteacher Bur my point is that the bible does not support your doctine, and neither does scripture excluded from the bible. The writings of Enoch, for example, are very clear. And Jesus and the apostles often drew on the teachings of Enoch.
You need to realize the importance of the 3 deaths and the fact Genesis was speaking of spiritual death entering after Adam sinned. Paul speaks of going to the third heaven, which Enoch describes in great detail.
Failure to understand what kind of death entered the world after Adams sin leads to misinterpretation. Adam was never physically immortal. Spiritual death is seperation from God, but is a temporary thing. Eternal death is eternal seperation from God with no chance of ever being reconciled. So it is your understanding of eternal death that leads to misinterpretaion.
@TrustinJC - I never said Adam was physically immortal... In fact, the Bible is consistent on this matter; humans are NOT and never have been innately immortal, but are given the gift of immortality when they 'believe'. As such, no human can live forever unless they have the gift of immortal life bestowed on them by God, and this is something Scripture says is ONLY given to 'believers'. Not sure what your point is, but it seems you are agreeing me with me?
@myoldreteacher I agree only on the point that we never had an immortal physical body. but this is different from our spiritual. We have two natures, the carnal (physical made from the earth) and our spiritual (the image/spirit of God). The body dies in our first death, but not the spirit. This is evident in the fact that we are all judged on judgement day in the future. How can the dead be judged in the future if they do not exist in spirit form?
So if the dead are to be judged in a future time, this means they exist in spirit form after their physical death. If they remain in spirit form after their death, this means they are immortal. How do you reconcile this?
The problem is with your understanding of death being based in todays culture, rather than in scripture and OT times. There are 3 kinds of death. Physical, spiritual and eternal. Eternal death is eternal spiritual seperation from God.
@TrustinJC - Actually, it is both the body and soul that is raised to be judged, which (as I argue) is the consistent position taken by Scripture. There is no division of the body and soul, as you explain things, at the Judgement. Again, I make reference to this in my video when I discuss the passages from 1 Corinthians 15. As for your comment about the OT, Jews did not divide the body into soul and flesh as you do. They believe we are BOTH body AND soul together!
@myoldreteacher Actually, the Jews did divide the two prior to going into exile into Babylon. It was the corrupt Pharisees and Saducees that changed that teaching. You need only go to scripture that the corrupt Pharisees and Saducees rejected because it conflicted with their corrupt doctrine. You really should read the writings of Enoch, as it clarifies the truth about Heaven, hell, and eternal damnation. You need ALL of God's word.
1 Corinthians simply describes the new kind of body we will have after our ressurection. Now some of those spiritual bodies will enter heaven. the other spiritual bodies will go to hell and suffer eternal punishment. Both the believer and non-believer will be ressurected in spiritual bodies. Sheep will enjoy everlasting life with God, while the goats with suffer eternal death.
Where does Paul say that non-believers are not ressurected?
This is the fulfilment of Rev 20:14, that they will be resurrected and gathered to be burned UP.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in that day...
So you see this group of people does not know God and the are resurrected in mortal bodies again. This is the outstanding TRUTH God has given us that all of those people who have not known God, remote tribes men from a far, miscarriaged babies, etc etc etc, will eventually be resurrected and be given a chance to know and follow God.
Yet there is also an alusion to a 3rd resurrection, which is for people that was given a chance but still rejected God...
I definitely agree on NO immortality of the soul, but the bible also mention what God's plan to those who have not known Christ in their lifetime. Yes the dead in Christ will be raised first, but there is also a proceeding resurrection after a thousand years. Note the term 'but the rest of the dead' Revelation 20:5. Note also the last phrase of that verse is a closing statement from the previous verse.
Now what is this resurrection after 1K years from the first resurrection?... continued...
amen this is the bibles truth,sinners are not immortalized as so many preachers out there teach. why they teach this i have no idea ,i guess to have control over the people maybe!
I think it would be more merciful of God to punish people in hell and burn and torment them for eternity for their sins on earth than to decide they should no longer exist, but then again I don't make these decisions.
maybe we should unite with astro and pray for the eventual annihilation of the lost,remember in scripture God has changed his mind before in certain situations,perhaps he can again one last time
I agree 100% - God prevented Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life, we are not eternal beings. Jesus does give us the gift of eternal life, it is a gift because we do not have it without it (His gift)
Wondering your thoughts on the Parables of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).
Merely to point out that they would not repent of their sins? But why would Jesus himself say that their soul went to the place of the dead and why would the rich man say he is in anguish in flames?
Is this simply a 'parable' / 'story' using thought of that time or was Jesus agreeing that this place does exist for the unbelieving souls?
The parable is (as you say), first and foremost a story, and is set amidst a range of teaching on the matter of attitudes to money. Thus (for me) it's primary intention is not to teach us about the afterlife, but to challenge people about how they treat others in light of their own wealth.
My other question would be Rev. 20:11-15, Rev 21:8.
If John was given this revelation from Jesus why would he talk and describe like this? 20:10 mentions the suffering of the devil/beast/false prophet being tortured for eternity.
After that all the dead are judged (where are their souls if not eternal while waiting judgement and not a christian?) and then join the lake of fire. How do they survive if their soul is not eternal to face judgment?
Well, nobody is denying that people (according to the Bible) will be around to face judgement, but after that I contend that the Biblical teaching is that only the believer will live forever, for only they are given the gift of eternal life in any real sense of the term.
So what then is the punishment for the sinner who rejects God?
He already lives for himself with no thought of anything past death.
What is this 'judgment' that God promises to bring against man?
How can God punish a person who is dead? Upon death they are no more.
What motivation do you propose to make a sinner even turn to God? They could give God the bird and say to bad you can not punish me after telling me i'm a bad person...
From what I understand the Bible to teach, it is more to do with a DESIRE to be with God and dwell with God forever. Heaven will not be full of people who are there because they fear God's wrath; quite the opposite. People will be there because they WANT to be there, because they LOVE God!
The worst preaching of the Gospel (IMHO) is that which focusses on fear and wrath, rather than love and mercy. There's no 'fear and wrath' in John 3:16 (for instance).
As for 'motivation'... well, my kids are not motivated to do what I ask of them because they fear me, but because they love and respect me. They consider the things I ask of them to be wise and good to do, not things they will be punished for if they fail to do them. As far as my reading of the Bible is concerned, people have a choice to seek God and dwell with God forever (their eternal reward), and if they choose not to, they lose out on that - and that is to their eternal cost!
I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I have no argument to win or lose here. I have my own ideas as to what the Bible teaches, and think they are consistent with the ideas talked about in this video, but at the end of the day it really does not matter to me whether there is eternal torment or not, because I think it is far more important to focus on making sure you are living well in this life, rather than fretting about what might or might not come after it. That's just the way I am...
I think this is a well articulated video. For those who do not believe the Bible this entire concept becomes unfounded. Thanks for a great discussion of the concept, though...
this is the most important topic in all of scripture because the fate of billions are in the balance,i never understood how any rational person could torment people forever,this disturbing teaching discredits the bible......i just hope your view is correct and the wicked will just stop existing
Great points. It's effective to kick off your argument with Genesis 3:22; the very beginning! I also do not believe that the soul has immortality by default. In fact, the Bible explicitly states it does not:
..the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who **only hath immortality**, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see... (1 Timothy 6:15-16)
Immortality is something we "put on" (1 Corinthians 15:53-54) through Him (2 Timothy 1:10).
zzpg2g 1 year ago
After judgement, those who are not written in the book of life will be destroyed. Where Matthew 10:28 says.. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. This states that body and soul will be Destroyed some day in hell(hades) when this is completed Hades will be destroyed in the lake of fire. DESTROYED means An ACT of complete destruction. So we know that without Jesus those people are finished.
adrahaxxen 1 year ago
Where the bible speaks of the devil in the lake of fire for ever and ever.. each ever is a set amount of time, otherwise he would have said for eternity. Also concerning Hades(hell), we know that death and hades are thrown into the lake as well after they gave up the dead that were in them. When the rich man called for Lazarus to touch his tongue with water we can conclude that hades is a place of torment from Satan, where the lost await judgement and that Paradise is where the believers wait.
adrahaxxen 1 year ago
@BrandoSauce I agree with myoldteacher - but I understand what you're saying. I believe that nothing that man has experienced so far can prepare him for the experience of having his SOUL being put out of existance. The 'Lake of Fire' experience will be truly awful. But it will 'only' last for as long as it is warranted. Besides - God loves his creation. He WANTS ALL to come to HIm. I therefore believe that it is very imporant to evangelize even IF for that reason alone.
CanadaCraig 1 year ago
@BrandoSauce - Well the way I approach this is not to base a theological position around one verse (such as Mormons do with their practice of Baptizing the Dead), but I take what is the consistent teaching about immortality across Scripture and use it to explain verses such as this. As such, based on the fact that the Bible never teaches immortality for the unbeliever, this must refer to the everlasting and eternal consequences of judgement.
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
Very good video, your smart, not just some ignorant rambling jackass.
Good for both sides, thanks for posting.
Farfromhere001 1 year ago 2
@Farfromhere001 Thank you for your kind comment - appreciated!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
to myoldrreteacher
I suggest you read Rev 20:10> And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet "ARE", and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Your statement of eternal punishing Vs eternal punishment is flawed in the light of this Verse.
The beast and false prophet were cast there 1000 years before, and the Word says they "ARE" still there being punished.
digger629 1 year ago
@digger629 - My point in this video is that verses such as Rev 20:10 need to be read (and then re-read) in light of the consistent teaching across the whole of Scripture, that there is no eternal existence for the unbeliever. BTW - Not to pick holes, but Rev. 20:10 speaks only of the Devil and the false prophet, so IMO it would only apply to them!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago 6
@myoldreteacher
Rev.20:10 does not only apply to the devil & his angels as far as where unbelievers will spend eternity being punished.
PROOF:
Matt 25:41> Then shall He say also unto THEM (unbelievers) on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Unbelievers are going to the lake of fire to be tormented forever also along with the devil & his angels.
digger629 1 year ago
@digger629 - That's fine... You have your interpretation, and I have mine. I guess we will agree to disagree.!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago 3
@digger629 to suffer eternal death and separation from God is the worst punishment and eternal torment we could be subjected to. It's necessary to understand the difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing.
Tabbouful 1 year ago
The wicked will one day be no more,all gone,they stand before god are judged and then are punished according to their deeds,and then become ashes,kapoot all gone. sin is destroyed death is destroyed!
timsh6 1 year ago
When Scripture talks about fire that will not be quenched ("unquenchable fire") what it means is that the process of destruction is unstoppable or irreversible. It is important to understand just why God uses such terms in Scripture as "unquenchable fire".
timsh6 1 year ago 2
too many wolves in sheeps clothing out there attacking the innocent with their man made doctrines! well i,m here to expose them for the lies they put forth,and i will continue to do so!
timsh6 1 year ago
he blocked me big deal is that not like a false prophet,lol the poor man is deceived and can,t handle the truth,lol!
timsh6 1 year ago
must be Tao tag became to overwhelmed with the amount of biblical evidence that i presented!
timsh6 1 year ago
where did you go Taotag?
timsh6 1 year ago
n Ezekiel 18:4 God said, "Behold all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die"
timsh6 1 year ago
The false doctrine of the immortal soul and its accompanying doctrine about an ever-burning hell were lies originating from pagan teaching. ...
timsh6 1 year ago
its called what does gods word say about hell
timsh6 1 year ago
i have a video on my posted on my channel from the website Truth or tradition on hell it would be worth while to check out .John sheds light on the subject
timsh6 1 year ago
were waitin on your answer to the question tao tag what ,s your definition of a soul?
timsh6 1 year ago
we,ve done our homework ,i think taotag needs to start doing his,lol
timsh6 1 year ago
i,m just waiting on Tao tags definition of a soul,he ,s for some reason avoiding the question
timsh6 1 year ago
amen to you ,i totally see that we both have the same views , i think there are too many confused individuals out there clinging to what the,ve been taught by their tradition rather than believe gods word and what it really says.
timsh6 1 year ago
and according to the bible can a soul die?
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 - According to the Bible, God created everything, and it would appear to have been done out of nothing! As such, the soul is a created thing, and as a created thing it can be destroyed and reduced to nothing, if God so chooses! I see no reason why the so-called [created] human soul is to be regarded as a permanent, eternal and immortal thing (unless you are a Hindu, and believe your soul is an eternal part of God).
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
taotag ,what,s your definition of a soul?
timsh6 1 year ago
it feels like i,ve been doing this forever,wait a minute how long have i been really doing this? oh a few hours maybe,it sure felt like along time.
timsh6 1 year ago
that,s right ! the wicked don,t see life,this is the only life they have now the first life! eternal life can either be accepted or denied.
timsh6 1 year ago
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Taotog
17 hours ago
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever who will live forever?
timsh6 1 year ago
about me:
timsh6 1 year ago
believe the bible over the traditions of man. i believe that traditions of man have blinded many to the truths of the bible.i,ll do my best with what knowledge i have recieved biblically to expose anything which contradicts the word of god! too many false teachers out there repeating the lie of the Devil,and often times those who follow tradition more than they do the word of god ,don,t like to be exposed!
timsh6 1 year ago
i don,t use my logic i use the bible as my reference ,and the bible knowhere mentions that man has an immortal soul,agree? yes or no
timsh6 1 year ago
and no i am not a jehovah witness!! even though they may be more biblically literate then you ,i am not one of them!
timsh6 1 year ago
The term forever is an unspecified amount of time,that,s how it is used in the bible especially in the book of revelations which uses mostly symbolic language.
timsh6 1 year ago
Psalm 37:38 (King James Version) 38But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
timsh6 1 year ago
The Bible is not ambiguous on the subject. While Jesus did make it very clear that there is a real hell (see Matthew 10:28), He explained something vitally significant in the parable of the wheat and the tares.
"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire," Jesus said, "so shall it be in the end of this world" (Matthew 13:40).
timsh6 1 year ago
The book of Revelation is written mostly in symbolic language.ok with that forever does not mean endless it means a certain period of time.
timsh6 1 year ago
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever. God's immortality has never been in question. Do you believe that God has lied when He says a man can live forever? I cited a couple instances where the Bible teaches man can live for ever. Do you deny those Scriptures are true? Look for the posts. I shouldn't need to write them all over again.??? so if you burn forever then that means you cannot die ,does it not?
timsh6 1 year ago
Taotag i understand much more than you,ll ever know! i,m not like your average brainwashed christian there who follows what my church teaches,i follow the word of god without the tradional blinders on,and you should start doing the same thing
timsh6 1 year ago
NOmy CAPITAL button is not BROKEN.sErIoUsly!
timsh6 1 year ago
WHAT?
timsh6 1 year ago
Using your logic, prove that man does not have an immortal soul. Bible doesn't say he doesn't so man must have one. It's the same logic you wanna use to prove Jesus was giving a parable in Luke. It doesn't say it's not so it must be. That's just foolish. We could prove all kinds of things with that kind of thinking. A BIG LOL, YOU WANT PROOF WELL HERE IT IS TIMOTHY 6:16 READ IT!!!!!!!! GOD ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY! IT SAYS GOD ONLY NOT MAN!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 I didn't say man was born immortal but the Bible does teach that a born again Bible believing Christian will live forever. God's immortality has never been in question. Do you believe that God has lied when He says a man can live forever? I cited a couple instances where the Bible teaches man can live for ever. Do you deny those Scriptures are true? Look for the posts. I shouldn't need to write them all over again.
Taotog 1 year ago
@timsh6 Is your caps key broken or are you naturally rude? A big LOL hardly addresses the issue does it?
Taotog 1 year ago
AND I,M NOT FOOLISH,I FOLLOW GODS WORD NOT MAN MADE DOCTRINES! TAOTAG!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 You may be reading God's Word but you're definitely NOT following what you're reading. How many people are going to Heaven? How does one get saved? Define what being born again means according to the Bible please.
Taotog 1 year ago
@timsh6 Rev 14:9-11 "....If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night,... ." Maybe you can explain this passage to me. I had to edit it to fit so look it up in context.
Taotog 1 year ago
@Taotog - What do you want to know? If you are suggesting this passage proves the idea of eternal damnation, you are correct! It absolutely does show that the unbeliever will be forever out of the presence of God (i.e. hell). However, if you are then going to suggest that a highly symbolic passage, from a highly symbolic book in the Bible, proves that the unbeliever is in eternal torment - I'm not buying that! The consistent biblical teaching is eternal punishment - yes; eternal punishing - no!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
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Thank you for the invite, I appreciate the insightful site you have. I try to help as many people that I can with the bible truth about hell, inmortal soul teaching, I pastored a pentacostal church for several years until I finally realize that I was teaching false doctrines. READ THIS TAOTAG THIS IS FROM A FORMER PENTECOSTAL PREACHER WHO BELIEVED AS YOU DO
timsh6 1 year ago
using parables to teach
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 To teach the multitudes, read your own references in context.
Taotog 1 year ago
jesus adressed the crowds .taotag don,t try and change the word of god,take the bible as it is written..
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 That is exactly what I said, Jesus was addressing the "multitudes" but the context says Jesus expounded His teaching to His disciples when they were alone. Jesus didn't teach the Apostles with parables, your own references (in context) say He taught the multitudes in parables.
Taotog 1 year ago
The Gospel According to Mark - Chapter 4
Jesus addresses the crowd gathered at the shore, using a story (or "parable") to teach them about God's kingdom. He likens the kingdom to a farmer planting ..
timsh6 1 year ago
don,t need to look at the context i know what the word of god says versus man manmade doctrines and all false precepts!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 "I don't need to look at the context" ?? I beg to differ friend, you DO need to look at the context because you're misrepresenting God's Word and you're doing it by taking verses out of context. Are you a Jehovah's Witness? It would explain a whole lot.
Taotog 1 year ago
immortality is a gift from god,it,s called eternal life! not everyone receives it.
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 Now how is this possible if you are so insistent that man doesn't have an immortal soul? You're contradicting yourself. What do you think eternal life is if not immortality?
Taotog 1 year ago
Matthew 13:34 (King James Version) 34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: THERE TAOTAG I DID EVEN BETTER,I PROVIDED TWO SCRIPTURES WHICH SAY THAT THE RICHMAN AND LAZARUS WAS A PARABLE!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 The key to understanding Matt 13:34 and Mk 4:34 is that you must look at the context and ask who is the "them" that He spoke only in parables to? It was the "multitudes". Mk 4:34 says that Jesus expounded the meanings to the Apostles. Lk 16: 1 says Jesus was teaching the Apostles but the Pharisee were listening (vs 14). If Luke 16:19-31 is a parable then where did Jesus explain it to His Apostles? He always explained His parables to them. Lk 17:1 says He was still teaching His Apostles.
Taotog 1 year ago
Mark 4:34 (King James Version) 34But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples
timsh6 1 year ago
Tao tag it,s time you start trusting god and his word more than satan!
timsh6 1 year ago
And Taotag it,s not just me who denies the immortal soul ,the bible does.There is not one scripture which states that man is immortal,Is man called immortal? what did job have to say about that ?Job "is mortal man more just than god?" is man called immortal according to the bible? no he is not!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 Joh 6:51, 58 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever... he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." Does this passage mean a man can live forever or is it just a lie? Jn 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;..." Can the Comforter abide forever or not? If man cannot become immortal then how can the Comforter abide forever? Truth or lie?
Taotog 1 year ago
.timothy 6:16 says that god only hath immortality! god is the only one is immortal. those whoend up in heaven will be made like christ.
timsh6 1 year ago
Tao tag is immortality a gift? who receives it? proof that the richman and lazarus was a parable ,you want proof? that,s east matthew 13:34,mark 4:34 ,there you go.
timsh6 1 year ago
only those in christ receive an immortal,eternal spiritual body! how,s that lavern,i,d love to flood your channel with plenty more scripture which proves you are wrong and a false prophet
timsh6 1 year ago
myold teacher Lavern aka Trustin jc canot provide any scripture for us to see that mna has an immortal soul,is that not like a false teacher,lol
timsh6 1 year ago
see this man found the truth!. he was a penetecostal preacher at a church for years
timsh6 1 year ago
As I look at the word of God I can see a lot of false teachings on tv (TBN) and how people are being mislead. Now when I speak to some Pastor's they become angry because I no longer embrace their man made doctrines. Keep up the good work.
timsh6 1 year ago
doclove63
Thank you for the invite, I appreciate the insightful site you have. I try to help as many people that I can with the bible truth about hell, inmortal soul teaching, I pastored a pentacostal church for several years until I finally realize that I was teaching false doctrines.
timsh6 1 year ago
time is running out Trustin jc better give everyone here an answer!! show us a scripture which states that man has an immortal soul ,and show us where it says that The richman and Lazarus is not a parable!!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 Prove the Luke 16 story is not a parable? Just because it doesn't say it's not a parable doesn't mean it is and I covered this in another post anyway. Using your logic, prove that man does not have an immortal soul. Bible doesn't say he doesn't so man must have one. It's the same logic you wanna use to prove Jesus was giving a parable in Luke. It doesn't say it's not so it must be. That's just foolish. We could prove all kinds of things with that kind of thinking.
Taotog 1 year ago
immortal means: uncorrupted; not liable to corruption or decay; imperishable; a state of being exempt from death; (deathless).Where int the bible does it say that we have an immortal soul Lavern?
timsh6 1 year ago
ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Does the idea of friends or even family members burning forever and ever set your mind free? if your a person with an ounce of sanity then how could it?
timsh6 1 year ago
Why To Listen To False Teachers Blog
They will say glibbly that we have an "immortal soul" yet nowhere in the 66 ... not say that all people who teach contrary to Scripture are false teachers.
timsh6 1 year ago
man riseth not til the heavens are no more.
timsh6 1 year ago
i repeat,The living know they will die but the dead know not anything.
timsh6 1 year ago
The living know they will die but the dead know not anything.
timsh6 1 year ago
rustin jc they don,t exist period,their dead ,the soul ceases to exist,the spirit(breath) life force which kept them alive from out of them is not with them it returned to god.We return to the dust from which we came,and there is "no soul" "no spirit" in the form of an invisible entity apart from the body which goes on living.Trustin jc if you believe otherwise then you apparently believe the devil more than you do god,"thou shall not surely die".
timsh6 1 year ago
1)Trustin jc provide everyone here with a scripture which specifically states that man has an immortal soul! 2) provide a scripture which specifically states that The richman And Lazarus is not a parable
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 - The thing that really bothers me is why someone would insist that a loving/merciful God wants to torment someone in hell for all eternity? Also, such an idea does not fit well with the biblical picture of God renewing the heavens and the earth after judgment. How can heaven be a place of bliss if people know their loved ones are being eternally tormented? Aside from my comments in the video, these issues also suggest that eternal suffering is a problematic concept and unbiblical.
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Is eternal life in Heaven really eternal or only temporary? And what verse says God WANTS to send people to Hell? Isn't it their own choice to go there by refusing the provision God has made for sin?
Taotog 1 year ago
@Taotog - I agree, it seems people choose to go to hell (i.e. they choose to live apart from God). But in my understanding, the presence of God is a sustaining thing, so to be apart from that means you will not be sustained and thus - poof - you're gone! As for the other point about heaven being forever/eternal, I think it safe to assume that it is for ever, but you never know... God could suddenly decide to end the party and kick everyone out!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
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Taotog 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@myoldreteacher And you don't think there is a presence of God in Hell? Not familiar with Psalm 139:8? Are you aware of the omnipresence of God? That means He is everywhere. Hell is not the absence of the presence of God. Hell is where God pours out His wrath on the unbelieving wicked. Heaven is where He pours out His bliss. If you doubt the eternity of either His bliss in Heaven or His wrath in Hell then you are calling God a liar because His promise is that both are eternal. God cannot lie.
Taotog 1 year ago
@timsh6 By your denial of an immortal soul can it be assumed that you don't believe there will be eternal life in Heaven? As for you request for a scripture that says the richman and Lazarus is not a parable I would ask you to produce one that says it is a parable. I think that is about as reasonable as your request.
Taotog 1 year ago
Man is not immortal and the Bible plainly teaches that flesh and blood is subject to combustion and death: “‘You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3). The wicked shall be burned to ashes when they die the second death, from which there is never to be a resurrection (Revelation 20:6, 14).THE BIBLE IS SO CLEAR THAT EVEN A SMALL CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND!
timsh6 1 year ago
The wicked are reserved unto the day of destruction (2 Peter 3:7 with Job 21:30) , and "They shall be brought forth to the day of wrath" (Job 21:30).
timsh6 1 year ago
The wicked are "reserved" until when? Until the "day of judgment. .... Peter states: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, ... He says this earth is reserved for that fire which will bring judgment and perdition to the wicked.
timsh6 1 year ago
Job 21:30 (King James Version)
30That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
timsh6 1 year ago
Malachi 4 1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
timsh6 1 year ago
Obadiah 1:16 (King James Version) 16For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been
timsh6 1 year ago
Psalm 37:10 (King James Version) 10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
timsh6 1 year ago
Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that .... but ultimately the wages of sin is death, not eternal existence
timsh6 1 year ago
Death is the termination of the biological functions that define a living organism. The word refers both to a particular process and to the condition that results thereby. The true nature of the latter has for millennia been a central concern of the world's religious traditions and of philosophical enquiry. Belief in some kind of afterlife or rebirth has been a central aspect of many religious traditions
timsh6 1 year ago
he physical body is not eternal that,s right ,we all know that ,we are mortal ,subject to death.The righteous are gifted with immortality at jesus coming with a spiritualike body.Corruption must put on incorruption.
timsh6 1 year ago
Trustin in jc""thou shall not surely die" who,s side are you on anyways?
timsh6 1 year ago
Learn what the three deaths talked about in scripture are before you preach on the subject. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE! TRUSTIN JC
timsh6 1 year ago
great message, I like to use Rev. 21:4 that tells us there is no more pain and crying and so on... so if there is no more, and the former things have passed away, then there can not be an on going torture and punishment. all the thing of the past are done away.
resurrectionway 1 year ago
The bible tells us that the truth shall set you free,amen!
timsh6 1 year ago
myold teacher it,s obvious you did your homework and men like Trustin jc have not!
timsh6 1 year ago
Death means death no life ! death means death no life nothing else, you either have the gift of eternal life or you don,t. god never said your going to live forever ,so you choose whether or not it,s going to be in heaven or hell,god never said this!!
timsh6 1 year ago
@timsh6 Your definition of death is based on todays culture and understanding rather then a biblical understanding. Learn what the three deaths talked about in scripture are before you preach on the subject.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
myoldteacher your exactly right!
timsh6 1 year ago
There are 3 kinds of death. Physical, spiritual, and eternal. The physical body is not eternal. That is what is spoken about in Genesis. When Adam sinned, spiritual death entered the world, not physical death, for we were not immortal yet in the physical sense.
when we are risen, it is in the spiritual and eternal sense. Those people judged unworthy will remain in spiritual death (seperated from God) for all eternity.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC - Not quite what I was saying. I was actually demonstrating that as far as the Bible is concerned, only the believer gains immortality. There is no 'eternity' for the unbeliever, as only the believer is given the gift of eternal life (i.e will live forever). Also, the actual ontological separation of the soul and body is a concept attributed to Plato and Descartes, but it is not something we find taught (as an ontological concept) in Scripture.
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Bur my point is that the bible does not support your doctine, and neither does scripture excluded from the bible. The writings of Enoch, for example, are very clear. And Jesus and the apostles often drew on the teachings of Enoch.
You need to realize the importance of the 3 deaths and the fact Genesis was speaking of spiritual death entering after Adam sinned. Paul speaks of going to the third heaven, which Enoch describes in great detail.
Con't
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Pt 2
Failure to understand what kind of death entered the world after Adams sin leads to misinterpretation. Adam was never physically immortal. Spiritual death is seperation from God, but is a temporary thing. Eternal death is eternal seperation from God with no chance of ever being reconciled. So it is your understanding of eternal death that leads to misinterpretaion.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC - I never said Adam was physically immortal... In fact, the Bible is consistent on this matter; humans are NOT and never have been innately immortal, but are given the gift of immortality when they 'believe'. As such, no human can live forever unless they have the gift of immortal life bestowed on them by God, and this is something Scripture says is ONLY given to 'believers'. Not sure what your point is, but it seems you are agreeing me with me?
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher I agree only on the point that we never had an immortal physical body. but this is different from our spiritual. We have two natures, the carnal (physical made from the earth) and our spiritual (the image/spirit of God). The body dies in our first death, but not the spirit. This is evident in the fact that we are all judged on judgement day in the future. How can the dead be judged in the future if they do not exist in spirit form?
Con't
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Pt 2
So if the dead are to be judged in a future time, this means they exist in spirit form after their physical death. If they remain in spirit form after their death, this means they are immortal. How do you reconcile this?
The problem is with your understanding of death being based in todays culture, rather than in scripture and OT times. There are 3 kinds of death. Physical, spiritual and eternal. Eternal death is eternal spiritual seperation from God.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@TrustinJC - Actually, it is both the body and soul that is raised to be judged, which (as I argue) is the consistent position taken by Scripture. There is no division of the body and soul, as you explain things, at the Judgement. Again, I make reference to this in my video when I discuss the passages from 1 Corinthians 15. As for your comment about the OT, Jews did not divide the body into soul and flesh as you do. They believe we are BOTH body AND soul together!
myoldreteacher 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Actually, the Jews did divide the two prior to going into exile into Babylon. It was the corrupt Pharisees and Saducees that changed that teaching. You need only go to scripture that the corrupt Pharisees and Saducees rejected because it conflicted with their corrupt doctrine. You really should read the writings of Enoch, as it clarifies the truth about Heaven, hell, and eternal damnation. You need ALL of God's word.
Con't
TrustinJC 1 year ago
@myoldreteacher Pt 2
1 Corinthians simply describes the new kind of body we will have after our ressurection. Now some of those spiritual bodies will enter heaven. the other spiritual bodies will go to hell and suffer eternal punishment. Both the believer and non-believer will be ressurected in spiritual bodies. Sheep will enjoy everlasting life with God, while the goats with suffer eternal death.
Where does Paul say that non-believers are not ressurected?
TrustinJC 1 year ago
exactly right ,what people are being told is wrong! man does not have an immortal soul as believed by the ancient pagans.
timsh6 1 year ago
This is the fulfilment of Rev 20:14, that they will be resurrected and gathered to be burned UP.
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in that day...
vidextreme 1 year ago
So you see this group of people does not know God and the are resurrected in mortal bodies again. This is the outstanding TRUTH God has given us that all of those people who have not known God, remote tribes men from a far, miscarriaged babies, etc etc etc, will eventually be resurrected and be given a chance to know and follow God.
Yet there is also an alusion to a 3rd resurrection, which is for people that was given a chance but still rejected God...
vidextreme 1 year ago
In Ezekiel 37 chapter, there is a description of a certain type of resurrection that seems to be not 'sown in imperisable'.
Ezekiel 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Now this is the pivotal verse that shows us that this is not the 'dead in Christ'
Ezekiel 37:13 And YOU SHALL KNOW that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
vidextreme 1 year ago
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vidextreme 1 year ago
I definitely agree on NO immortality of the soul, but the bible also mention what God's plan to those who have not known Christ in their lifetime. Yes the dead in Christ will be raised first, but there is also a proceeding resurrection after a thousand years. Note the term 'but the rest of the dead' Revelation 20:5. Note also the last phrase of that verse is a closing statement from the previous verse.
Now what is this resurrection after 1K years from the first resurrection?... continued...
vidextreme 1 year ago
amen this is the bibles truth,sinners are not immortalized as so many preachers out there teach. why they teach this i have no idea ,i guess to have control over the people maybe!
timsh6 1 year ago
amen brother is that not the truth of the bible! amen!!!
timsh6 1 year ago
I think it would be more merciful of God to punish people in hell and burn and torment them for eternity for their sins on earth than to decide they should no longer exist, but then again I don't make these decisions.
hockeyhatesgooglnow 1 year ago
maybe we should unite with astro and pray for the eventual annihilation of the lost,remember in scripture God has changed his mind before in certain situations,perhaps he can again one last time
theistguy 2 years ago 6
I agree 100% - God prevented Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life, we are not eternal beings. Jesus does give us the gift of eternal life, it is a gift because we do not have it without it (His gift)
demongov 2 years ago
Wondering your thoughts on the Parables of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).
Merely to point out that they would not repent of their sins? But why would Jesus himself say that their soul went to the place of the dead and why would the rich man say he is in anguish in flames?
Is this simply a 'parable' / 'story' using thought of that time or was Jesus agreeing that this place does exist for the unbelieving souls?
Familyworshipguy 2 years ago
The parable is (as you say), first and foremost a story, and is set amidst a range of teaching on the matter of attitudes to money. Thus (for me) it's primary intention is not to teach us about the afterlife, but to challenge people about how they treat others in light of their own wealth.
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
Its a common point of view about that passage.
My other question would be Rev. 20:11-15, Rev 21:8.
If John was given this revelation from Jesus why would he talk and describe like this? 20:10 mentions the suffering of the devil/beast/false prophet being tortured for eternity.
After that all the dead are judged (where are their souls if not eternal while waiting judgement and not a christian?) and then join the lake of fire. How do they survive if their soul is not eternal to face judgment?
Familyworshipguy 2 years ago
Well, nobody is denying that people (according to the Bible) will be around to face judgement, but after that I contend that the Biblical teaching is that only the believer will live forever, for only they are given the gift of eternal life in any real sense of the term.
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
So what then is the punishment for the sinner who rejects God?
He already lives for himself with no thought of anything past death.
What is this 'judgment' that God promises to bring against man?
How can God punish a person who is dead? Upon death they are no more.
What motivation do you propose to make a sinner even turn to God? They could give God the bird and say to bad you can not punish me after telling me i'm a bad person...
Familyworshipguy 2 years ago
From what I understand the Bible to teach, it is more to do with a DESIRE to be with God and dwell with God forever. Heaven will not be full of people who are there because they fear God's wrath; quite the opposite. People will be there because they WANT to be there, because they LOVE God!
The worst preaching of the Gospel (IMHO) is that which focusses on fear and wrath, rather than love and mercy. There's no 'fear and wrath' in John 3:16 (for instance).
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
As for 'motivation'... well, my kids are not motivated to do what I ask of them because they fear me, but because they love and respect me. They consider the things I ask of them to be wise and good to do, not things they will be punished for if they fail to do them. As far as my reading of the Bible is concerned, people have a choice to seek God and dwell with God forever (their eternal reward), and if they choose not to, they lose out on that - and that is to their eternal cost!
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
I agree that our decision to follow him is based out of our love for him. But the fear of the Lord is the beginning of what (Prov 1:7)?
There is respect, love and fear all wrapped up in our relationship with God.
He is a jealous God who desires us to serve Him and Him alone. We are not to play both sides 'courting' Him and the world.
My kids obey me because they love me but they also fear the punishment for choosing to disobey. (Ex 20:20)
Familyworshipguy 2 years ago
I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I have no argument to win or lose here. I have my own ideas as to what the Bible teaches, and think they are consistent with the ideas talked about in this video, but at the end of the day it really does not matter to me whether there is eternal torment or not, because I think it is far more important to focus on making sure you are living well in this life, rather than fretting about what might or might not come after it. That's just the way I am...
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
I agree with you that we'll probably not change either ones opinions and I think yours is very well thought out.
I still try to focus on the love of Christ and what he has done and does for those who follow him. That is always my key/core.
I would rather no one ever have to suffer for eternity (even as the Bible states that would be the prefered thing that none would perish).
I've enjoyed our discussion and your sharing of your beliefs :) God Bless and thanks again!
Familyworshipguy 2 years ago
All the best, and maybe see you here again after my next video posting - Hope so, it was fun chatting with you :)
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
Awesome point - I have not considered this verse before - Thank you.
dffblog 2 years ago
Try reading a book of fiction. Robert A Heinlein. The title of the book is Job: A comedy of Justice
Grimli 2 years ago
Not sure what your comment's got to do with this video, but I will take your recommendation and look out for this book in the future.
myoldreteacher 2 years ago
I think this is a well articulated video. For those who do not believe the Bible this entire concept becomes unfounded. Thanks for a great discussion of the concept, though...
iDeismFounder 2 years ago
this is the most important topic in all of scripture because the fate of billions are in the balance,i never understood how any rational person could torment people forever,this disturbing teaching discredits the bible......i just hope your view is correct and the wicked will just stop existing
MrRationalmind 2 years ago