Battle of Flodden -- part 6/6

[lusitan600]

scotish is more strong in a figth of body to body than an engilh!

[uafchris]

@lusitan600 I doubt it, at Flodden and most other battles they were crushed by the English.

[robsargent4]

Very sad that so many men died for such a pointless war. James, along with the rest of the Stewarts/Stuarts, was a headstrong tyrant whose idea of honour was asking his subjects to fight and die in a pointless war. Henry, along with the rest of the Tudors, was a headstrong tyrant whose idea of honour was asking his subjects to fight and die in a pointless war.

[MrTotallyenglish]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh poor old silly Scotland

[robsargent4]

@MrTotallyenglish poor old silly MrTotallyenglish.

[YappyRaccoon]

I was vote for Scots to win fights cause they were the underdogs and the English were trying to take all of their wool production as taxes.

Except in Normandy when the Scots were fighting the heroic young German troops. It would have been better for the Scots to start up a new war against England during either WW1 or WW2. During the battle of Britain would have been the best time for a new adventure south to help Germany defeat England.

[nobbytang]

@YappyRaccoon - you are getting your battles wrong mate - Edward the 1st wanted the wool in 1298 but this battle was 230 yesrs later . Henry the 8th was in France with 40,000 english troops but luckily Somerset & Clifford was left behind with 25,000 other troops including militia when 50,000 scots invaded northern england to uphold the alliance with France

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Why in God's name would the Scots fight against England during the First or Second World Wars? Remember they had shared the same monarch since 1603 (albeit with an interruption under Cromwell) and the same Parliament since 1707. A long time away from the days when the Border Country was bandit country and occassional battles between the two Kingdoms, like Flodden, were not unheard of, although Flodden was admittedly quite exceptional.

[YappyRaccoon]

@robsargent4 Scotland needs to punish England for the oppression and bullying that went on for centuries. The genocide of Cromwell against Catholics in Scotland and Ireland is plenty reason enough alone to require a beating be put on the English. The problem is England has always been a big enough bully to fend off the few attacks made by the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Better to hit England when it is busy in another war with the army committed overseas.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Much of the oppression in Scotland in more recent centuries, unlike in Ireland, was carried out by fellow Scots. Cromwell was a bad man, but he didn't exactly treat English Royalists well either. Many English people are good people - I don't see what good killing them would do. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, eh? Well I don't see it that way. If everyone in the world killed descendants of people who had wronged their ancestors we would all be dead several times over.

[YappyRaccoon]

@robsargent4  Ironically you are the one who is brainwashed. Your sermon of ignorance is filled with 1940s propoganda and anti-German hate that was designed to brainwash people in the 40s.... not 2011.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon I don't hate Germans and never have. I think you'll find that 1940s British propaganda was generally more specifically aimed at Nazism and the Nazi Party, rather than Germans in general. Nationalistic, anti-German propaganda was a lot more common in the First World War. Moreover, my feelings concerning the German soldiers are more reminiscent of the feelings of many modern Germans than they are of 1940s or modern-day British or other Allied feelings. No doubt I am brain-washed,...

[YappyRaccoon]

@robsargent4 Research the topic rather than lecturing me about your feelings. Propoganda in the 40s was totally designed to punish all of Germany and to 'learn war out of the jerries' as the English put it. Eisenhower's de-nazification booklet he had distributed to all personnel detailed how Germans should be made to suffer in the after war years as punishment and even included concentration camps used to starve and expose German males to kill them off. Research it and don't preach to me.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Eisenhower was American, was he not? I said "1940s British propaganda was generally more specifically aimed at Nazism and the Nazi Party, rather than Germans in general. Nationalistic, anti-German propaganda was a lot more common in the First World War." I had some idea of Eisenhower's personal feelings about the Germans already, but the majority of his wishes were not carried out. The Americans, and to a lesser extent the British, occupation forces had strict laws concerning...

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon fraternisation. However, as I have explained, this does not contradict what I have said.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Lecturing you about my feelings surely isn't as bad as lecturing the whole nation of Scotland about what it should have done in times past and should do today. If you're Scottish, then I think you'll find people with your views concerning England are in the minority. (Yes, some Scots do resent the English and to some independence has a certain ring to it, but very few Scots I know would say that Scotland should have fought against England in the First or Second World War).

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon If you aren't Scottish, then it's none of your business.

[YappyRaccoon]

@robsargent4 Really? Is it illegal for me to voice my support of Scotland's independence online? If you feel so strongly against the scots, they why don't you start your own private war against them? Put on your round hat and red garb and bring it to them.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon No, it is not illegal, but if you aren't Scottish, it is none of your business. I am not against the Scots at all. I am Scottish. That's why you saying "the Scots should invade England" is slightly annoying to me. You clearly don't understand the way that most Scots I know think. Why would I fight against my countrymen, even if they did disagree with me?

[YappyRaccoon]

@robsargent4 You are no patriot nor do you have any honor for your life is full of anger, fear and negativity.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon You've got your priorities mixed up. Lecturing other people about what their nation should or shouldn't do and how patriotic they are is just a wee bit low on the list. Well you're the one who's being so negative about other nations. I am not particularly fearful of anything at this point in my life. Anyone who thinks a whole nation should be punished for some people of that nationality have done in the past has no honour.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Sorry I missed out the word "what" in that last sentence.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon I think you are certainly seem to be the more vengeful of the two of us - judging by your rhetoric at least.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Look there are many people in Scotland who think that Scotland should be independent, but none of the ones who are taken seriously by the general public in Scotland think that England should be punished for what has happened in the past. Out of the two of us, it is you who is most against Scots, because it is you who least understands the way Scottish people think and in fact your opinions are at odds with those of by far most Scots.

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon ...but aren't we all?

[robsargent4]

@YappyRaccoon Many of the people in that Army committed overseas were Scots.

[robsargent4]

What exactly was so heroic about the young German troops? Brainwashed young men no doubt, they only thought that they were doing what was right for their country, but does the eagerness to die for politicians who you've never met and probably don't care if you live or die so that they can carry on their programme of self-aggrandisement and ethnic cleansing not sound more like extreme naivety, heroism? Real heroes are those who pick fights wisely, fighting only when there is no other choice.

[YappyRaccoon]

Damn. I was hoping for a Scottish win. It would have been better that the English had taken a good kicking.

[oo00infinity00oo]

@YappyRaccoon a scottish disaster battle is not simply about might but tactics and organisation

[silu81]

@YappyRaccoon english puppet

[numpyist]

Its not about winning or losing to the Southron, just about fighting them. So glad am not an arrogant Englander.

[silu81]

@numpyist twat

[SiLatics56]

This was partly a case of the English Bill being more effective than the Scottish Pike.

[london2resistance]

Yet another one of many humiliating defeats for Scots at English hands! haha

[Thompsonf1001]

@london2resistance check up your history, and take a look at the future, a euro secured scotland watchin you shitbags go down into anarchy

look around at most economists will tell you likewise

and its also belived the highlanders, if positioned better, couldve changed the outcome EASILY

[london2resistance]

@Thompsonf1001 Fact! your country has had many defeats fighting English armys. Scots have few victorys to celebrate.

[Thompsonf1001]

@london2resistance hadden rig otterburn piperdean sark ancrum moor haddington redeswire also many other (far smaller) border clashes all DECISIVE scots victorys all credit to england for covering them up also most english victorys were due to superior man power

[SiLatics56]

@Thompsonf1001 So much bitterness still from Scots. Do you not think there are plenty of English victories that not many people talk about? Do you do English history in Scotland? Don't think so. Here are other English victories against the Scottish:

Alne

Battle Of The Standard

Halidon Hill

Newcastle

Neville's Cross

Homildon Hill

Solway Moss

Pinkie Cleugh

Numerous victories for Oliver Cromwell's Parliamentarians against Royalist Scots armies, including Dunbar

[SiLatics56]

Actually ignore Newcastle, not sure where I got that from, but you can add Falkirk (the first battle where William Wallace was defeated) and Dunbar to this list, plus of course sieges and massacres, but that's not something to be proud of. Plus, the battles during the Jacobite uprisings (such as Prestonpans, Sheriffmuir, Falkirk II and Culloden) are seen by some as England V Scotland but they were in fact much more complicated, being battles of religion with Scots and English on both sides.

[SiLatics56]

@london2resistance And it also seems that every English victory is, according to Scots 'Because they had the numerical advantage.' Bullshit. Just look at this battle as the Scots had the numerical advantage. Yeah, this must've been an English fluke, haha.

[SiLatics56]

@london2resistance looking at the numerous English victories against The French during the Hundred Years War, they were normally outnumbered so I presume thompson thinks these were flukes, haha. Edward III won battles such as at Crécy and Poitiers, when heavily outnumbered, and we all know what happened under King Henry V at The Battle Of Agincourt.

[k1ngross]

@london2resistance oh stop with the my-team your-team bullshit, this was hundreds of years ago. Fact of the matter if you want to get down to it is that there may have been many battles won and lost but no-one EVER won the war.

[robsargent4]

@london2resistance And you are a heartless idiot.

[SiLatics56]

People need to realise, it was the Scots trying to invade Northern England here, so they were essentially, in the wrong. I've only just signed up to You Tube and every time I look up a battle/war, or any conflict between England and Scotland, all I see is a plethora of anti - English nonsense, from somehow STILL bitter and twisted Scots who need to stop hating all English people due to things that happened hundreds of years ago.

[k1ngross]

@SiLatics56 and all I see are inaccurate facts from people acting like experts. I don't care who was better hundreds of years ago, England or Scotland; I do care about facts. For instance " so they were essentially, in the wrong" ...under who's jurisdiction? They went to war with England honoring their "Auld-allience" with France, which isn't wrong, it's the purpose of a treaty.

[SiLatics56]

@k1ngross It's clear we aren't going to agree on much here, but I can confidently say I'm much more an expert on British battles than a lot of people, and as much an expert as most, so at least value my views a little bit.

[SiLatics56]

@k1ngross I wasn't suggesting anyone was 'better' as such, and the only reason I started commenting on these things on here, in fact the only reason I even set an account up (I'm no expert on You Tube that's for sure) is to try and restore a bit of sanity to proceedings, and in response to the constant and bigoted anti - English rubbish people keep coming out with on here.

[oo00infinity00oo]

@SiLatics56 christ ive seen alot of english arogance and scottish ignorance, to be quite honest what youve said sounds perfectly reasonable to me and im scottish,

both countrys have a right to be proud of their military prowess, if it is anything to be proud of

[nobbytang]

@oo00infinity00oo - absolutely right - Both the english and the scottish fighting spirit is legendary and part of the reason the english were so successful in France was because we mastered how to use dismounted heavy cavalry and longbowmen together against the scots . Respect

[axelfoaly10]

I visited the battlefield on my way home from Newcastle races a few years ago.Its a bleak place with a horrible atmosphere where many brave men died.We should all give thanks that we did not live in these times for they were unfair and brutal for the common people.

Thanks for the post littlemissunnydale its a classic.

[ptriton]

Over and over in various wars and battles throughout their history the Scots had initial successes that were subsequently erased due to simple disorganization, miscommunication and impulsive haste.

[bigyoungy]

Clan young border reivers

we Ride!

[SeeYouNextFall]

Hell yeah!

[oarfrost]

Magnificent!

Many thanks littlemisssunnydale

[CharityBarbossa]

Brilliant, wonderful documentary!

Thank you for uploading this :-)

[revengeofcleveland]

bloody english..the french should just once have sent troops in number..just once just once..

[madbob73]

unlucky frenchie ;)

[grindergaz]

What? Like WW1 (we entered the war because France was invaded by Germany) and WW2 France fell within 2 weeks, Going to Paris for Bastille day but my Grandad Puntin hated the French for surrendering in WW2 so easily. Our ancestors are French. Grandad served with the Durham light Infantry in WW2.

[BillDFC]

It is said his body ended up in a lumber yard in London, where it lay abandoned and workers used his head to play football with.

A sad ending for a renaissance King,if that was so.

[Talbot6832]

There were 12,000 Scots casualties at Flodden and 1500 English.

[JonMacFhearghuis]

Given the exaggeration we see in contemporary accounts (not least in the 60,000 size quoted for the Scots army here), it could have been anything between 7000 and the full 12.

[Vincent100A]

The costumes were bad the fighting for most was bad, the history a little off, but the three days we filmed this was some of the best fun I have ever had on a set

Jack Vincent ( King James)

[oo00infinity00oo]

@Vincent100A the fighting was herendous watch highland warriors vid on utube

[BillDFC]

What happened to the body of King James?

[katharinethequene]

I dont know, but Queen Katherine wanted to send it to Hnery in France, she wasnt allowed to so sent his bloddied coat instead