Bogosity Ep. 1: Astrology EXPANDED&REMASTERED Pt. 1

[mandolinic]

Astrology is complete bunkum.... but then I'm a Capricorn and we're notorious skeptics ;-)

[Ghenghy]

I wouldnt expect some goober that lives in one of the most backwardassed towns in North Carolina to understand astrology, much less some bozo that thinks daily horoscopes are anything but FEPO! Horoscopes are bullshit, astrology is not.

[shanedk]

@Ghenghy Another butt-hurt astrologer who has to pretend I only debunked sun-sign astrology.

Explain the time twins study.

[Ghenghy]

@shanedk When Dean actually publishes the results of his study, I'll comment on it, until then its just bullshit as personified by this snippet from one of the very few articles on his alleged results..."100 parameters in connection with health, occupation, marital situation, anxiety level, etc. They tried to collect evidences for similarities between the time twins. However, no similarities could be identified. " NONE? LMAO What nonsense! Now dont you have a hayride in Mt Holly to ready for?

[careggiana]

confuing astrology with the daily horoscopes from newspapers, which are BS as you say... but you are limiting it to that, which is VERY superficial and un-scientific. just to stop having your head up your ass so deep, you should search on Youtube Zeitgeist Jesus Myth and you might get a thing or two

[shanedk]

@careggiana "confuing astrology with the daily horoscopes from newspapers, which are BS as you say... but you are limiting it to that,"

Why does EVERY goddamn woo keep saying that when anyone who's seen the episode knows that that's a complete lie?

EXPLAIN THE TIME TWINS STUDY.

[0hmyy0utubeusername]

WOW, why do so many people dislike this... Are they that stupid? Likes from me, keep spreading a scientific perspective.

[JWICKRAMA]

Brilliant reply to the fraudster "chadow723" ! In addition to being a fraud this CHADOW723 guy is also an insecure cunning prick. I posted a question on his "How astrology works" mumbo-jumbo and after evading the question by posting some irrlelevant messages, he deleted those messages and my responses leaving just the first post and his reply, and then BLOCKED ME from posting anymore !! BUGGER!!

[vspqbd]

Source of the above comment: /watch?v=1PNJtmizCUQ

[vspqbd]

I show someone this video and here's the response I get: "@vspqbd Watched it. Person didn't study astrology. No further comment about whether he's telling the truth or no. What are you like, 8? "--c1k4ml3kc3

I'm not the one believing in bullshit mythos.

[vspqbd]

@vspqbd

Funny how he doesn't have any response to yours or Bill Nye's points.

He's a woo.

[shanedk]

@vspqbd Or to the Time Twins study.

[vspqbd]

Astrology kinda reminds me of fortune cookie fortunes.

[LJStorm]

..watch 6 BILLION PEOPLE be OBLIVIOUS to the answers to what we call LIFE! On that note, I say this guy is a FUCK*N PRICK!!!!!!!!!!!! Good ridence dick. You can thank the moon in aries for that remark MOTHER FUCK*R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Makes me SO MAD!!!!

[ArcanaKnight]

@LJStorm Astrology predates astronomy, not the other way around. Using your example, it would be like promoting the flat earth theory even though we know its not. Its not just that it sounds far-fetched, it is demonstrably not true. All your comments have done is demonstrate your own ignorance of astronomy, gravity, "energy" (the nebulous new-agey form). Astrology is nothing more than cold-reading techniques (or hot-reading if you actually give them detailed info beforehand).

[LJStorm]

@ArcanaKnight The problem is i have anazlyzed many people and have found percise results. I memorize the profiles of each sun sign and moon sign and rising sign if you know what any of that even means i have found by doing so then analyzing to see if these 'percise' profiles are true. What I found... was unbelievable. No one is taking the time to sit back and analyze, it is VERY VERY VERY TRUE. The percise descriptions had me going but as soon as I SAW B4 MY EYES THE TRUTH, I was convinced.

[ArcanaKnight]

@LJStorm Were these "precise profiles" calculated before or after the change in caused by the recalculation due to the earth's tilt?

If astrology were real, then a person would get the same reading regardless of which astrologers they went to, yet if you go to several different astrologers and change your appearance between the meetings, you will get different readings based off how you look at that moment. Astrology is just cold reading (which can be done subconsciously btw).

[LJStorm]

...People, the answers are out there. When something seems so 'far fetched' it seems logically impossible which is why back in the day if you thought the world wasn't flat you'd be sent to the menatl asylum!!! Because it was too FAR FETCHED for them! Alot of anger was brought to me by this foolish man. EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can be LOGICALLY explained! We Just don't have enough knowledge don't you people get it do you not see the pattern?! It hurts it really does because I have to sit back and.

[LJStorm]

..Astrology seriously. I've been able to aquire the ability to even select which kind of child I want to have BASED on their time of birth and WHERE they are at the time of birth depends on their personality, you want an intelligent little child, have him be born on September 8th at 5.21am how about that huh, I may also be onto the fact that psychics use mental AWARENESS which is a TRUE FORM of human ability to be aware of different energies to pin point locations, indenities etc...

[LJStorm]

...It all depends on what you are doing with your life, your environment, people you hang with etc has to be brought into play! Astrologists do not spend years and years of their god dam LIVES learning about something that Is FAKE, they spend years and years of their god dam LIVES learning about something that is REAL. The more we deny astrology the more we are denying our own existince. There is more to it than meets the eye, there are severe consequences if people don't take...

[LJStorm]

...It is 'simplified' the two horoscopes he read may as well BOTH been correct because more can be said but astrologists do not give out massive reports on your horoscopes unless you pay. It is also a hypothetical matter of speaking because lets say IF you are seeing someone and the horoscope says this and that, but if you AREN'T seeing someone and the horoscope says this and that then you are not going to believe, but, if you were seeing someone the advice given would BENEFIT...

[LJStorm]

This guys 'BOGUS' attempt to demean the subject speaks for itself, BOGUS. He clearly has a massive lack of knowledge about the planets themselves and whole REASON behind it all. For christ sakes.. the universe is massive and even THAT isn't enough for this guy to believe. I too have read horoscopes that were completely different for the same day, MORE than one thing or situation can be said but because it is only a horoscope the description is narrowed down in a sense that....

[LJStorm]

... they are not Just a random size no, they are a SPECIFIC size to produce THE RIGHT amount of energy for their own specific reason which is based on 'decision'. Time and time again I have been able to PROFILE so many people because you learn about their Sun and Moon combinations and where the planets were during that time. Planet earth orbits the sun ONCE every 365 days, within that 365 days the planets change alignment which explains why people born on a different days are DIFFERENT...

[LJStorm]

...It's gravity to LIFT emotion. To posess such traits energy has to be made from different elements, like all planets posess different elements they exert different amounts of energy and because energy is so dam light each planet is able to use its gravity to pull energy in to the NEAREST object with energy which is why different alignments of stars, planets etc produce different arrays of energy which is why everyday is not the same because the planets are moving and changing alignment...

[LJStorm]

The reason why astrologists are able to identify our traits and personalities so accurately IS because of the stars and moon etc themselves, energy can be portrayed into ACTION, action can only be created by energy, human beings are the TOOLS that the universe use to portray energy through them. For instance the Suns energy Is MASSIVE, it exerts so much! It portrays ego, self etc ect, the moon is our emotions. The reason why the moon is so close to earth is because it uses...

[LJStorm]

Look at this people LOOK AT THIS. How many times over and over and over and over again have we seen THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT THE EARTH WAS FLAT. SO many people abuse astrology by taking it's own credit my writing out FAKE horoscopes which give the impression that horoscopes are ALL fake when THEY ARE not. This man hasn't even gone into advanced astrology to even understand that fact that ENERGY is REAL. The reason why this man does not believe is because THERES MORE TO IT...

[andromidius]

The reason people think Astrology works is because their mind joins up the imaginary dots. If as a young person you're told what your zodiac personality traits are, chances are you'll probably attempt to conform to them in some manner, maybe even unconsciencously.

Personally I don't mind having a starsign. Its a bit of fun. But to think it impacts who I am is rather bizare and unbelievable.

[gdjsky01]

Wonderful. Excellent. Superb. Well done. Keep it up.

[TheCinephile]

Always good to see astrology pilloried as it rightly should be. I especially enjoyed your reply to Young's outrageous analogy.

[Kakarot21591]

There was one other test where classmates rated themselves as complying with an unknown horoscope which was actually one from a mass murderer. Talk about no validity!

[xBuscopanx]

Thanks Mr. Awesome! :)

[pienipaha]

Good vid btw. I'll check the rest of this series too ;)

[pienipaha]

It's also possible to "make the fortune come true" - either conciously or completely without thinking about it.

I am not superstitious but I have dragon tarot cards that I use to sort my head, mostly for fun. It does help sometimes, but I do not give the credit to the cards. (I just derive inspiration or ideas from them) It's just lighthearted fun for me.

Besides... I like dragons and the pictures are pretty.

[bananafix]

u r an idiot. lol

[Cyrathil]

The Forer Effect!

[Lvzifer11]

part one bullshit.

Astrology is a lot more of a sun sign.

Sun sign must be wrong cuz there is a 12 sings, tropic, 12 signs sideral, 10 planets,

and a lot of aspekts, 360 degrees

So there is a milion combination.

Astrology is not about Sun sign it's about natal chart.

There is not 2 same natal charts in the wolrd.

[johnycannuk]

Its still bogus.

[realk1234]

good job Shane

[Ryuwyvern]

Ah horoscopes, like fortune cookies without the tasty snack.

Good video

[JohnTraviss]

Even then, most fortune cookies taste like crap. FYI fortune cookies are not Chinese.

[AlmightyAtheismo]

When you introduced James Young, you should have said: "and then there's THIS asshole" like Penn does.

I doubt they'd sue you for infringement.

[bignastydragon]

james randi pwns like most people eat food.

[Immevu]

killer dude!

[guitaoist]

skeptical Leo like James Randi.

youre heart has more knowledge through millions of years of instinct than you're so-called logic

Have you read "Cosmos and Psyche" and all that evidence for archetypes? Thought not

[AlmightyAtheismo]

"Have you read "Cosmos and Psyche" and all that evidence for archetypes? Thought not"

I love the fact that you ASSUME he hasn't read that book.

How would you know?

[guitaoist]

hunch

[darkdragonsoul99]

I like that background how did you do that

[shanedk]

It's from a piece of astronomy software called Stellarium.

[darkdragonsoul99]

ok that thing is kinda cool atleast it's nice to look at

[youngrelleus19]

omg i thought he was going to talk about the personalities not horoscopes horos are indeed

bogus but personality traits are over looked they are very real look for your self

[shanedk]

The Time Twins study was ALL ABOUT personality traits! I SAID THAT!

It's AMAZING what these delusional woos will ignore...

[NeoTheo2]

"The point is, believing in nonsense leaves you vulnerable... in the words of Voltaire, "Those who can get you to believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

I can't disagree with you there. In fact I would go one further and say that all belief is absurd. Contrary to popular belief, belief is not a de-facto, but a choice. I choose not to beleive or dis-believe, but simply to know or not know.

Clearly the human condition is such that we don't know a whole lot more than we know.

[NeoTheo2]

I also would like to mention.

I read an article a while back about people who read their daily horoscopes and are pretty regular about it. Like you point out, they are pretty generic and can apply to almost anyone.

So, as in your example, let's say the person goes through the day looking for someone they feel has wronged them that should extend forgiveness too, which if you work, your going to find someone there you think has wronged you.

Is that a bad activity to be engaged in?

[shanedk]

It depends on what they've done to you. But that's not the point.

The point is, believing in nonsense leaves you vulnerable. In the worst case, in the words of Voltaire, "Those who can get you to believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

[NeoTheo2]

By the way, you're computer code hodown is priceless. I don't know when it has been that I laughed that hard.

[NeoTheo2]

I have to take exception to some of your points. Astrology can be very good for people. Let's look:

For one, to study Astrology one has to learn something about Astronomy. Also, one has to learn a little something about math, we're talking angles here. And, if one happens to be obsessive compulsive, you might have to learn something about physics.

Compare that with what one could be learning in America today, Creationism, trickle down economics, or reading Ann Coulter, and astrology wins.

[shanedk]

Okay, in that sense, astrology is better than creationism. And bubonic plague is better than Ebola because it can be treated with antibiotics. Hitler was better than Mao because he didn't kill as many people.

You can't justify something by saying it's not as bad as something terrible.

[NeoTheo2]

Well one doesn't necessarily justify it as much as putting it in context.

[flamablesteve]

Yeah. about that being to embarrassed to say so.

I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder and I wouldn't be bothered.

No one gets embarrassed by telling someone else they made a mistake....

[flamablesteve]

Also, because of my anxiety disorder, I tend to be pretty unsocial.

As a result, my astrological predictions are REALLY OFTEN way off, because the generalizations about most people simply don't apply to me.

[flamablesteve]

The funny thing is, I'm a Sagittarius, and apparently I'm supposed to be like wild and unpredictable, and have a tendency to act without thinking.

Quite the contrary, I obsessively and compulsively over analyze and hesitate to the point that its a psychological condition.

[pantera692]

I'm a Leo too! And we're both atheists! This PROVES that Astrology's really true!

[nemesisnick66]

James Randi rules ^_^.

[nemesisnick66]

WOO im a libra were the best :P haha lol although every time i read one of those things it describes me like perfectly ^_^ i didnt know they had anything to do with astrology though and i always get astrology and astronomy mixed up :( they sound to much alike.

[freedom0f5peech]

Just like bible verses... the more vague, the more they are used.

[spartacus6839]

Why is he talking about newspaper satrology. Surely he must know astrology is the full chart and not the sun sign. The sun sign is maybe 5% of the chart. Newspapers publish sun sign columns as a novelty, but hes thinking its real and then trying to debunk it. A strange guy.

[shanedk]

Ah, someone else who looks at two minutes of the video and ignores the other 24...

[UrbanZenpk]

Dude astrology is so so silly. Do honest think that if venus is lined up at a center way with the earth via the moon or some shit like that you will be a bad person, or unlucky in love.

If so don't ever go near people offering a "free stress test" because your the kind of sucker they are looking for..... *sigh*

You make my head sore

[spartacus6839]

All it takes is a little education and a whole new world of possibilities could be opened up to you. You sound young, maybe when your older and saturn has been around a few times you will mature and see other posibilities, but until then your stuck the way you are.

[UrbanZenpk]

Young?! :P sorry son, I'm well over the hill, but its ok you'll mature soon. As for astrology, i know some ppl need to be told what to do etc

The whole concept of why we are here, who we are etc.

The fact is we are because because we are,

We are who ever we want to be. And thats it, they is no answers or mystical powers in star positions. Have you even watched this videos? Does a better job exposing the fraud that I could!

[Herufaia]

Bah.

Okay little one allow me to ask you this.

What if PSR 1257+12B,C,or D were in my sign?

What if some other extrasolar planets were.....oh thats right YOU DON'T INCLUDE THEM EVEN THOUGHT THEY MIGHT AFFECT YOUR RESULTS!

Why don't you? Because your ideas are based off of myths.

[Saga000]

Why wasn't penicillin used in medicine hundreds of years ago... oh, that's right, because medicine is based on myths!

(to those who didn't get it: this is an sarcastic reply to Herufaia)

[shanedk]

Actually, it was. The Arabs have been treating saddle sores for centuries by taking mold from the saddle and rubbing it on them. They didn't know why it worked, of course, but it did.

[Saga000]

If I were to nitpick, I'd ask "how many centuries?", but that's really not the point, is it? The thing is, just because something hasn't been studied, tested, or included in common practice... doesn't mean it won't be in the future, nor does it "prove" everything else before its discovery was wrong. It adds to, or transforms/shapes, the old information.

[shanedk]

Something like 12 centuries.

REAL science gets confirmed. Pesudoscience like astrology gets falsified, and those who continue its practice get laughed at.

[dweeper1020]

Actually, you got this completely wrong.

Pseudo-science does not get falsified, that's why it is so difficult to expunge from societies.

Built into Science is the canon of testability, which must include falsifiability, that is: a theory must have some way to prove it false.

So, scientific theories can be either falsified or confirmed. Belief based "theories" can never be falsified; they are simply proclaimed to be true.

[TomSFox]

By the way, Shane, I started subtitling one of your Bogosity episodes in my native tongue German and plan to upload it if I ever get it done. I hope that's ok.

[shanedk]

Yes, it's cool. In fact, if you plan on subtitling the first 6, if you send me the subtitles and timecodes for them I'll stick them on the DVD when I get around to compiling it.

[TomSFox]

Hell yeah, I'll do that!

By the way, if you check my profile, you will find (in between some stupid junk) another yet unfinished subtitling of mine: An English translation of a German TV show that had James Randi as a guest.

[shanedk]

Cool! I watched that and got frustrated because I couldn't understand a thing that was being said.

[TomSFox]

Neat! I'll try to get myself to work on it again.

[TomSFox]

Oh, Shane, don't put "Atheist" in the "Religion" field!

Atheism is not a religion!

[shanedk]

Hey, that's how MySpace does it. Not my choice.

[TomSFox]

Sorry, I don't have no MySpace.

[TomSFox]

Come to think of it, why are you a member of such a woo site anyway?

[shanedk]

Because I have a lot of friends there. I prefer Facebook, though.

[deadcommie10]

The only acception is for capricorn because we don't have anyone in the office who is a capricorn, so she usually says that something is gonna happen to you if you are a capricorn.

With her, the horiscopes are usually only random words or private comments to the lives of her co-workers.

[deadcommie10]

I work for a small, private newspaper in Phoenix, Arizona, and I can tell you that horiscopes are completely random. The woman who is in charge of horiscopes comes up to me every week and asks, "How are you today?" I tell her that im nervous. And sure enough, when the paper comes out, it says "You may be nervous today, but be strong and you will overcome great things."

[ZeroMotivation]

Eh...there is no way to really prove Astrology's validity...but it's still fun ^^ it's nice to just kind of pretend that you know what is in store for your future. (Just nice to think and fantasize about, no?)

[shanedk]

Hey, as long as you're doing it for fun, I've got no problem with it. It's when you start claiming there's a real effect there that I have a problem--and particularly if you charge other people money for it.

[ZeroMotivation]

Oh no, I agree because there is NO way to scientifically prove it. Logic is the answer to everything...morals, faith, and beliefs help us in many ways, but logic should always triumph in the debating field.

[Dan14159]

What are you talking about, Zero?

Logic used alone doesn't do much.

Once you apply the scientific method (which has integrated logic and scepticism), you're fine. Logic... is the answer to FAITH?! Faith by definition doesn't use logic (or reason.)

[4EverShadowless]

Yes, but logic is then defined by science.

Sorry, guess I didn't make that part clear, but I meant in term of arguing against religion, faith loses to logic.

[Dan14159]

Just because you use a fork to eat pasta, doesn't mean your fork is defined by pasta.

Sorry if I don't get something here, I'm still waking up.

[KellyLeePhipps]

Also, authentic astrologers know that astrology is not concretely predictive, (ie. predicting exact events) but archetypally predictive...so before you keep flaming astrology, why not actually study what it really is.

[shanedk]

Again, TIME-TWINS STUDY. Why do NONE of you bozos have an answer for that???

I'm sorry, I'm just getting fed up with the same bullshit over and over and over again. You do NOT want to learn. You're a sad pathetic example of humanity.

[shanedk]

By the way, you've got a lot of astrologers on your YouTube site--why have none of them, OR YOU, walked away with Randi's $1 million?

Come on, let's hear the pathetic excuses...

[Dan14159]

Because us astrologers don't need it.

Don't go on about how I can send the money to charity. I deserve the money much more. I know that by looking into faith's eyes. Faith never lies, it is the eye of god. Potatos have eyes too. Speaking of potatos, Do you like mashed potatos? I do. I also like being outside. When you're outside your lungs are absorbing all the pollutants and toxins. Did you know that genetically modified food contains pollutants and toxins? I sure don't want to grow four eyes!

[rouey]

Uh oh, we have a source of bogons lurking around here. Get the shields up quickly.

[KellyLeePhipps]

First of all, this guy is doing some very sloppy thinking about astrology, since he is looking at newspaper horoscopes and not real astrological charts. So he thinks it's stupid that there is a connection between the heavens and humans, even though astrophysicists claim that we all originate in the forges of stars!

[shanedk]

WRONG. The Stossel video was a REAL chart, not just sun-sign astrology, which you would have known if you had WATCHED THE SMEGGING VIDEO.

You pathetic woos are all alike. You just look at one part of something and ignore the rest. What about the time-twins study? How can astrology POSSIBLY be valid given that data?

[WareSquirrel]

I've always found the bit with James Young a bit troubling. The problem is when you say, "But then, he wouldn't. He's an astrologer." That's the poisoning-the-well version of the ad hominem fallacy, declaring his position is invalid simply because he's the one stating it. It is better, I would think, to let his load of nonsense show him to be a fraud rather than dismiss him as one in advance.

Fairly minor nit-pick, this. I still like the vid.

[shanedk]

I don't think so; I thought it was just a clever way of introducing him. And I think it's perfectly natural that an astrologer would take issue with someone who says astrology is bogus, and I don't think it's Poisoning the Well to play off of that.

[WareSquirrel]

'Poisoning The Well' means making some comment about the speaker's identity to create a bias about the speech. It can be a clever rhetorical trick, but it is still an ad hominem fallacy. Observing that an astrologer would naturally take issue with an attack on astrology implies that an astrologer's defense of astrology is necessarily invalid. His defense *is* invalid, as you showed quite clearly, but it is invalid on its own merits, not because it is being made by an astrologer.

Continued...

[WareSquirrel]

To clarify, I have no trouble with mocking liars and idiots, but there's a right way to do it. Your intro of Janet Folgers in episode 2 is an example. You said in advance that she wasn't being honest, but that's not poisoning the well. You just introduced the vid, made that clever 'coffee' comment, and let Folgers speak for herself. On the other hand, if you had said something like, "The creationist Janet Folgers naturally would attack evolution, but..." *that* would be poisoning the well.

[shanedk]

Well, there were all of those coffee references...

[shanedk]

I think you would have a point if I said that about "some guy who believes in astrology." But that's different from, "here's a guy who makes money from people believing in astrology."

[shanedk]

Not when it's POINTING OUT that the speaker has a bias.

[zrice03]

For fun, I like taking individual horoscopes and picking them apart and showing how vague and ridiculous they are. A lot of times they end up pretty funny.

[shanedk]

I saw one that said, "[Y]ou'll encounter confusion. You'll also become acquainted with delusion and misunderstanding." Man, the irony!

[agentorange20]

anyone who still believes in astrology despite all the contradictory evidence and openly allows others to pilfer their pockets of their money, well they pretty much deserve it IMO.

[BeforeTheNoose]

Brings back so many memories seeing that video of JY again...almost brings a tear to my eyes. Wonder what that prat is up to now. Speaking of prats, chadow has been quiet recently.

[BeforeTheNoose]

Yay bogosity is back. Thanks for these, brilliant as always.

[thkaal]

I miss the eyeglasses and the geek look. At least you still have the "YEAH RIGHT!"

[shanedk]

The problem is, light reflects off the glasses too much. I lit myself with 1500 watts of halogen lights; the glasses would have glared WAY too much.

[macman13]

You should at least get a pocket protector to stay true to your geek roots.

[lovasip]

I love when JY speculates without actually doing any similar test.

Those who can -do.

Those who can't- criticize.

[lovasip]

You repeated a mistake describing astrology.

Houses and signs are different. They entertain a nice opportunity to claim that the minute difference in birth is relevant.

Conjunction can occur with only points in a chart, and the beginning of Signs is scarcely used in this manner.

[shanedk]

I get into that Zodiac-vs-the-Constellations thing in Part 2. The thing is, some astrologers say they're the same thing, others (such as Young) say they aren't. They aren't consistent at all.

Originally, the houses, the Zodiac, and the constellations were all the same thing, and it was stated undeniably by the ancient astrologers.

[lovasip]

Thanks. I do not know about the origin of the houses. All I know is that now they are entirely different from the signs/constellations. The 1st house starts from the ascendent and so on, independent from the signs completely.

The fact that astrologers are unable to establish a unified system to calculate them is really telling.

[shanedk]

In Tropical astrology they're different; in Siderial astrology they aren't. Some astrologers say one thing, other astrologers say something completely different.

[lovasip]

Yes, for the signs.

I am reffering to houses. That is even worse. Check out astro dot com and experiment with the options.

There are 10 different house systems. JY praises equal, others Placidus .

The error margin of the aspects (the so-called orbs) also causes a great deal of controversy.

[macman13]

"using science to debunk astrology."

That's practically like beating up an old lady, I mean it's just so easy you almost feel bad for them.

[AbbeyNormal]

That's why it's so sad that people still believe in it. It's a feeble old system that isn't even internally consistent anymore since the stars got up and moved, something early astrologers didn't predict, and yet there are more books on astrology in the bookstore I work at than books on astronomy.

[AbbeyNormal]

Oh James, you are so wacky. I love how he says that jargon is there to simplify things (which in any legitimate field, they do) then he simplifies his jargon by just speaking English. Just try to get this guy to explain to you what the hell Astrology is all about. He'll repeatedly tell you to read a book about it. He won't tell you which one though.

That horoscope test is always neat. I've seen Derren Brown do it as well.

[themadhair]

I like the new look. I look forward to more. I am demanding like that but it was your fault.