Everyone still needs to look at how she got into that condition in the first place. The official explanation was proven wrong during the autopsy. Thogmartin found that "there was no proof that Terri Schiavo ever had an eating disorder such as bulimia." So how did she end up like that?
@claffey27 That's horseshit and you know it claffey the autopsy couldn't prove one way or the other the coroner stated such. Any signs of anorexia would be disappear after 15 years of not being able to move on your own. Which is why Terri gained weight again. However there was also severe osteoporosis which had set in.
@claffey27b And which headlines are those that don't match the autopsy report? You mean the point that Terri Schiavo was blind according to the autopsy? I remember at the time many people who couldn't face reality on the Schindler's side tried to discredit the autopsy report because it painted such a bleak picture.
@claffey27b There were many details in the press that were wrong. Since you mentioned the blind part, let's start with that. The press made it sound like that she was blind the entire time! In fact the blindness was caused by the dehydration process which damaged all components of the ocular organ. Oh, and bye the way, in my best Columbo imitation, the entire idea that anorexia could cause this situation was discredited by the autopsy report.
@claffey27b Incorrect. The blindness was caused by the disconnect in the neural pathways from her brain to her eyes. Her eyes were intact, however her brain could not interpret the light coming from her eyes. So nice try again but the dehydration process had little to do with it. Her cerebral cortex was completely destroyed. This just goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. It had nothing to do with her eyes being destroyed. No the autopsy report didn't.
@claffey27b The autopsy report stated it couldn't rule one way or the other about Anorexia. Too much time had passed and the body had plenty of time to repair her weight problems. Someone who had anorexia 15 years ago would not have it show up 15 years later.
@PogueMoran Typcical liberal positiion. You have an absolutely hatefull position towards life. You are no different than those ahols in gainesville who want to burn a holy text. I have a reservation to travel on 9/12 You, like all liberals, have no respect for life, religion, the rule of law or anything else. I am in greater danger because of people like you. Of course, you will obviously cheer if something bad happens to me.
@claffey27b As usual claffey you disappear for a month only to come back here rambling on like the idiot you are. I have plenty of respect for life. I find it funny that you ramble on as such but then probably have a problem with health care reform and say the single payer option. Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery and it just goes to show how little you know about the situation. Those who have had a loved one in a similar situation don't act as you do. This hasnothing to do withpolitics
@claffey27b Also your last bit is rather dumb. I have not shown you my economic or social views for you to even construct a label. But like most extremists you jump to labels so quickly that you lose site of reality. I have no respect for the rule of law? That's rather ironic and funny. The rule of law has been followed in this case. It is you who has no respect for the rule of law or the laws that this country has that you'd want to have judges rule the way you want them to
It's murder, no matter how many of you try and cover it up. Just because someone cannot talk, someone cannot move their legs, cannot perform, doesn't mean they don't have a soul and do not deserve to live.
Just because you wouldn't like to be her, also doesn't give you a reason to kill.
Michael Schiavo is a low down sorry piece of shit he kill his wife cause she had another woman and had alot of insured on her whoever said he was a nice guy wake the hell up she is gone and the piece of shit is still living i hate everytime i see his nasty ass face .
After 15 years mona any money which was around 1mm was not enough to cover all her care. She died on medicaid. It was Terri Schiavo's father who wanted him to date and "get laid" and his family met his girlfriend. She never was going to recover no matter how much you pretend or wish
@PogueMoran Your statement is incredibly false, just like all your others. There is absolutely no way that any father would say that to their daughter's husband! But yet, you say that in a way that you would actually expect people to believe it!
@claffey27b I love how you come back here months after the fact to posit another false comment. I'm sure you think that Mr Schindler was at her bedside for those 15 years when in reality he rarely showed up neither did the siblings. It wasn't until after the media got involved that they actually visited regularly. Mr Schindler was bankrupt the media circus was the best thing for his pocketbook.
agree!! The fact that he chose the painfull method of starvation/dehydration, tells you alot about who he is. It is still unanserwed as to how she got into that condition in the first place. Bye the way, have you ever read the book "a life that matters"? There is a lot of information in that book that has not been on TV, internet or any other politically correct place.
Everyone who enters the media, does so with the intention of spreading their left wing agenda. Whether it is to give judges the arbitrary power of life or death with no appeal, or to support their favorite candidate for President. I did not see the health care infomercial(according to the ratings, not many others saw it either) I find it difficult to belive that Charlie Gibson was asking "republican questions" given his past history. Gibson, Couric, and Williams have lost all credibility!!
Good god Claffey you're back with another steaming pile of shit. "Left" wing agenda. The media is owned by conservative corporations. They report what gets ratings. John McCain was their favored candidate before Obama came along. They brought him donuts, went to his house, flew on his plane.
@claffey27 I KNEW that Randall Terry, James Dobson and Tony Perkins were all left-wingers! It all makes sense now! They got into the media to spread their left-wing agenda! George Rekers founded FRC to spread the homosexual agenda. I suspected Perkin (like his namesake) was a big fag.
@virtuallypaul Your reply to my original post makes no sense whatsoever. I made no references to any of the people you mentioned. Are you sure that you intended to respond to me? Are you sure that this was intended for this video? Are you sure that you can pass a drug test?
@claffey27b "Everyone who enters the media, does so with the intention of spreading their left wing agenda."
That means that Dobson & Co. are trying to spread a left-wing, homo agenda. That is why, by your standard, they entered "the media". That's what you meant to say, right?
Go back and get your GED, little wingnut, and learn how to write.
Michael Schiavo is no hitler. I read his book, and the only reason he wrote the book was because Terri's family told too many lies for him to just verbally dispute them, and not for attention like Terri's family and the right to life fanatics who thrive on it.
I don't know the reason he wrote his book. However, I do know that it wasn't to get his story told. All the networks, were on his side in a one sided way. Sort of a run-up to their later being in the tank for Obama. Everyone in the news media repeated everything he said(including the ridiculous statement that starvation was not painful) as though it were the un-challenged truth!!
Rational people don't believe in conspiracies like you do claffey. The networks were on his side because a majority of Americans were on his side. The media made the protests out to be something bigger than they were. The media outnumbered the protesters at the hospital more than 2 to 1 just like during the "letterman protest". The media wasn't in the tank for Obama they were more favorable to Hillary and McCain than they were to Obama
Did you actually say "The media wasn't in the tank for Obama they were more favorable to Hillary and McCain than they were to Obama " ???!!! I don't know what the Obama campaign was doing in 2005. But it was extremely obvious who all three networks and every major paper were rooting for in 07&08. It is pretty obvious that you believe everything that your read on the internet. That must be the reason that you believe in the views that you do. Try reading books sometime. Or get some fresh air
Yeah Idid sa that because its true.A study was done and showed that throughout the election coverage the media was more favorable to McCain.Just because they mentioned Obama doesn't mean they were favorable.A majority of the news articles were negative and brought up stuff about ayers, wright, birth certificates and other discredited BS.I believe reality Claffey which is something you righties haven't done in a long time.I read books which is more than I can say for you as you don't do research.
ABC news has relocated to the WhiteHouse. The President has joked about how that Brian Wiliams is in bed with him. Chris Matthews has made comments about the thrill running up his leg.(1,2or 3?) How can you say with a straight face that the news media does not act on a common liberal impulse to interpret stories according to their byas?! Every reporter says the reason they went into journalism is to "make a difference"
I see your typing but all I hear is more whining. Where were you when Fox News got exclusives inside the white house with the president, first lady and cheney? When they were doing puff pieces for the white house. The forum that was hosted by ABC News was moderated by Charles Gibson who parroted republican talking points. Doesn't seem like such a bias. If there was bias Gibson wouldn't be using republican talking points and they were have planted soft ball questions in the crowd.
To you righties any report that doesn't parrot your right wing talking points is considered bias. There are no shades of grey in your world which isn't in line with reality
What is wrong with someone who is in serious incurable pain wanting to die? I could see if there wa s acure. but if you felt every minute of every day that you were on fire, your skin being peeled from your muscle, like pins were being shoved under your nails, Or similar pain without cure. Should you not want it to stop?
I dOn't know wat 2 think abOut the situation of Terri.. sOmeone ask me that if I were in the cOndtion of Terri schiavo wat would I feel? Her husband and family are arguing about her and even people in the media and in the politics are on it.. If I were Terri I'll be sad seeing my family and my husband are arguing about her cOndition instead of helping each other they even go 2 court just to prove their own beliefs.
Her brain wasn't functioning in the same way that yours and mine does. That doesn't mean that it wasn't functioning at all or that it was okay to kill her.
Likewise it does not mean it was not ok to killer her. A person should be able to choose for themselves within reason whether to live or die. Beyond the usualy self-pitying teen or other person trying to commit suicide, most scuicidal people have a good reason. incurable pain, Or insanity.
No but her telling witnesses she didn't want to live in that condition made it okay to refuse treatment. Patients willfully deny themselves treatment everyday in the US. Saying her brain wasn't functioning the same way mine or yours does is an understatement. Its like calling a double amputee someone who has arm troubles. The only part of her brain that was functioning was the stem which controls lower brain functions like breathing, sleeping. The conscious part of her brain was gone
If you shot a nondisabled person, you could also make the argument that he or she is in a better place, and that wouldn't make shooting them okay. Just because David Gibbs and I happen to agree on some aspects of the Schiavo autopsy doesn't mean that I got my information from him. But, I don't know that discussing this together is worthwhile. You obviously are very set in your view of this case, as am I.
Yeah but if you're shooting someone you're taking an active role instead of what happened in Terri's case by letting nature run its course as it would have 15 years back. The david gibbs explanation just isn't based on logic though. Its not probably in the medical world when you factor everything else in and it has already been discounted.
if you locked a non-disabled person in a closet and left them there with no food or water, you would also be "letting nature take it's course," and it would still be murder.
Yeah false equivalences are always good. Pull out that red herring. Yeah because if you locked me in a closet id try to break down the door and you'd actively be committing murder. I could still feed myself I'd still have survival skills I wouldn't have my cerebral cortex completely destroyed. What you're saying isn't even apples to apples. Terri's brain was gone multiple witnesses said that she said she wouldn't want to live like that. Keeping her alive with no cerebral cortex istorture
Finally, the celebral fluid is exactly what I'm talking about. The biology book articulated that due to dehydation, the fluid leaks out as the brain collapses in on itself. My research in this matter HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DAVID GIBBS. DAVID GIBBS IS A LAWYER. I LOOKED IN MY BIO BOOK for a SCIENTIFIC DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BRAIN DURING DEHYDRATION. If your goal is to use logic to make decisions, I strongly suggest that you not make assumptions about the people you are dialoguing with
You're not making sense. The cerebral fluid would normally be less than the brain weight itself. Its not normal for the cerebral fluid to outweigh the brain. Look at the Karen Quinlan case her brain weighed far more than terri's at death. You're making the argument that Gibbs made saying her brain weight was entirely attributable to dehydration and not the fact that most of her brain was destroyed take your own advice you've made some rather bad assumptions.
Incidently, if you think that what was done was so great, than why do you hang out here arguing with people? Your side "won," so what are you so uptight about?
I'm not on any side but the rights of the individual. This happens everyday in America are you standing outside every hospital bitching about it or is this just your cause celebre? Stop getting so emotional and use logic. Would you want to live trapped like that for 15 years as your body continued to deteriorate? The parents didn't care what her wishes were and they stated it in court. This was never about her but more about them.
You must think that the coroner is completely stupid? They figure in that sort of thing when doing the autopsy and even with the lack of water the brain was smaller than it should have even been. That's what happens when a good portion of your brain is destroyed. Her cerebral cortex was completely dead the only thing keeping her alive was the brain stem which controls things like breathing and lower brain functions.
PM-If you look at the neurological report, you will see that the coronor listed marked dehyration as the cause of death...he never articulated whether or not that affected the size of her brain. I also took core biology last year and our biology book said that certain parts of the brain start to shrivel and collapse in on themselves without water. (Life, a core biology textbook.) This also causes blindness, which was noted after Terri's death.
Ive read the report and seen the brain scans. If you saw the initial brain scans you would see that her brain was totally abnormal compared to a normal brain. Her cerebral cortex was destroyed. The cerebral cortex controls higher brain functions she never would have been able to be rehabilitated or had a normal life. So you don't think having the main section of her brain completely destroyed had anything to do with her brain being so light?
Maybe when you read through your biology book you might read that its not normal for the skull to contain more cerebrospinal fluid than the brain itself. The fluid weighed 678 grams while her brain weighed 615. Using the david gibbs suggestion that the weight loss was entirely linked to the dehydration is not based on reason.
I agree with you Progo35! Finally someone that agrees on the simple fact that she died b/c of DEHYDRATION.
PogueMoran is a stuck up, argumental individual who loves to promote his side AND HIS SIDE ONLY of the truth, as I've found out in various debates. :)
There's nothing stuck up about my side. Your side doesn't rely on truth but rather anecdotes. Until you've lived through a similar situation with people's medical right to refuse treatment you have nowhere to grand stand from
I understand that if some one of a SANE mind who is fully capable makes this decision he/ she is entittled to it..they will answer for themselves. But what about when you have others trying to make the decision for you..if you are hady cap or old. The law as I read is not very clear on that. What abaout that?
So you're saying Terri wasn't sane? As told by witnesses in court Terri had said if she was ever in a condition like that she wouldn't want to live like that. The law is very clear on oral directives. Now how about this her parents testified in court that they didn't care what Terri's wishes were that they would keep her alive because it made them feel good. They said they would do everything to keep her alive including open heart surgery and amputation of limbs because its what theywanted.
I think that what happened was tragic..why on earth would they let her die like that..it takes days! and it torture. Why is it that a dog is put to sleep in a more humane way. No onne has that right. And if some one of a sane mind wants to die...how painfull is the process. Is it always in this way. I know that with hospice they diprive nutrients and morphine speeds up the process. Please educate me I want to be better informed! please.
You're right a dog is put to sleep in a humane way but those on the right don't believe in that so this was the only way. You're assuming with the way her brain was absolute mush and the cerebral cortex being destroyed that she could feel pain the same way you or I do.
I don't know if I agree that it was painful for her, considering what neurosurgeons have said. Pulling out teeth with pliers would hurt a lot. But dentists do it every day and people don't feel pain. It's because comparing our normal consious state with any other state is not comparing apples to apples.
Let's look at the prior statement quoting "I hardly call moans of "ahhhh waaaaa" her saying I want to live she could have been saying "I want to die" just as easily." Well if she was doing that,then she obviously did have mental capacity and the claims of PVS are obviously proven to be false. If she was saying she wanted to live, respect that wish. If she was saying she wanted to die, Baker Act her as a threat to herself until she receives proper medical treatment.
You think a crying mother had selfish reasons when she wanted her daughter alive? Eh? You want your mom to pull your plug when you become a vegetable? Huh??
She had selfish reasons because she stated she had selfish reasons in court. The family stated they didn't care what her wishes were they would never have followed them. How is one supposed to get through the grieving process if they couldn't even accept the condition their daughter was in. I hope to god if I ever was in that condition my family would have the decency to follow my wishes and let me move on. She's in a better place what are you crying about?
Terri Shiavo was murdered. Murdered by starvation. Her husband is a heartless wretch. Anyone who doesn't agree ought to have their plug pulled the SAME WAY when they are in her "vegetable state".
I would hope if someone says they don't want to live like that that you'd have the honor and decency to follow their wishes instead of keeping them alive indefinitely because its what you want and not what they want. The fact of the matter is that this was less about how Terri would have felt and more about how the parents felt. The parents stated in court they didn't care what her wishes were and if they knew them they wouldnt follow them because keeping her alive made them happy.
Indeed no. I completely agree with your first half. If someone wrote a will declaring that they want no feeding tube, I actually respect that. But you're saying this is entirely based on her parents' personal desires? Dear Uninformed, you have only to see the evidence. Her wonderful husband, after pledging to keep and love her forever in court, winning his case against the doctor for millions of $, got a girlfriend and started cheating on his lawful wife, while the PARENTS cared a LOT more!
If I were you i'd contemplate changing your username. We do agree the parents cared a lot more... about the money. The fact is no one at her age would have written out a living will and even if she had her parents wouldn't have followed it. I've seen all the evidence you on the other hand would rather believe rumors that have no basis in fact. Terri told several witnesses she didn't want to live like that. Mike brought this up in the 92 suit against the doctor. He didn't win millions.
In all the suit was settled for under a million with Michael getting some for loss of consortium. The reason he didn't win more is because it was concluded she was partially at fault for what happened. The fact is he didn't even have to wait that whole time. If he really wanted to get rid of her like you claim as Guardian he could have pulled the feeding tube without the parents being involved. He got her all the rehab possible and it all failed.
He could have pulled the plug anytime he wanted and we never would have heard about this story. He did the right thing and let the courts decide. Bob Schindler encouraged Michael to date and the Schindlers met many of his gfs. The Schindlers also used to have information supporting the original diagnosis of PVS and information relating to her eating disorder on their website up until the time that the fight over the money occurred and then they pulled off all supporting information
The Schindlers sure as hell didn't know how to show they cared. In Court they stated they didn't care what her wishes were if they knew them they wouldn't follow them and they would do anything to keep her alive even if it meant amputations and open heart surgery because keeping her alive made them feel better. She was a human being not a pet. If they really cared they would have known when to let go. Instead they all quit their jobs and are milking her name for money.
Okay, so I did a mistake in putting an S on millions. Haha...I'm here laughing because you worried enough to write four long paragraphs. I got one word for you. If you care so much about this case, look up "Fighting for Dear Life" and watch all 4 parts. It's by a CLA Attorney, a group I personally trust and know, and gives the complete facts of everything about her. P.S. I will keep my username, thank you. And yours rather suits you...
Lol you wouldn't know the facts if they bit you in the ass. So since you were off on your multitude doesn't that also mean your other "facts" were also off. Yeah I'm sure you think my name fits me if you actually could read. Its Pogue Moran its an irish combination. Well the truth knows no limits because its more than obvious you are devoid of facts relating to this case. The fact is the Schindlers knowingly deceived the court on multiple occasions and were in it for the money
BTW I have seen David Gibbs mockery of a documentary. This is the same guy who lost the case horribly because he had no grasp of the actual legal system. Everything him and the Schindler's attorneys tried had no basis in jurisprudence.
No he got several hundred thousand for loss of consortium and she got 750,000. Sorry bout when you say millions that denotes 2 million or more not 1.5 so yes you were wrong on the millions of dollars. BTW if you get sick I guarantee you that 750,000 she got wouldn't last no 15 years.
The money he paid out in lawyers fees came from his loss of consortium award not from the actual money from the court. He couldn't touch the money for her care without approval for the court. There were no alterior motives. People are taken off feeding tubes everyday in this country and you don't hear about it where is your selective outrage there?
If people want to die, let them. Keep your dumb religion to yourself. Anyone who's terminally ill or severely brain damaged should be allowed to die with dignity in the manner of their own choosing without a bunch of bible-thumping idiots protesting.
Overlooking your rudeness, you have only proved my point. Anyone who's terminally ill or severely brain damaged should be allowed to die with dignity in the manner of their own choosing. Amen!! Terri NEVER SAID SHE WANTED TO DIE. Show me a will. Show me a statement. She tried to say I want to live.
Whatever. Florida courts and about 20 people that testified say otherwise. Only her parents wanted her to remain in a vegetative state for their own selfish reasons. Take a look at her autopsy report in regards to her brain.
Anyone that's terminally ill and wants to commit suicide should be allowed.Your religions are all lies. Prayer has been shown to have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on a person's recovery.
Terri Schiavo did not leave anything in writing about what she would want if she ever became incapacitated. Over the years, courts had sided with her husband -true. Bad judges. Look it up. Her parents said she could get better with rehabilitation, which was CONFIRMED by doctors, who also said it was possible that her husband could have strangled her before her collapse! You have not addressed the point. Allowed to die in the manner of choosing does NOT mean killing a woman who had no will.
She was a young woman how many people do you know in their twenties leave written wills? Even if she did leave her will the parents still wouldn't have followed it. They stated in court they didn't care what her wishes were and would keep her alive because it made them feel better. There's nothing bad about all the judges in the case. They followed the letter of the law. She could not be rehabilited lots of doctors tried over years and she couldn't.
The only doctor who said she could have been rehabilitated was a charleton who claimed he was nominated for a nobel prize, he wasn't. He runs a cash only clinic and had no case studies to prove he could rehabilate her. Not only that but he presented no course of action on how to rehabilitate her. Which means he was clueless and only trying to get money. Yeah I find it hard that a lowly restaurant manager could "strangle" her without ever leaving any marks.
Yeah I'm "spouting crap" that's backed up by the facts of the case, the coroner's report and reports from several of her guardian ad litems. Anyone who has had a loved one in a situation such as that knows that there comes a certain point that no matter how hard it is and how you feel about it eventually what you want has to be overridden by what your loved one would have wanted. The schindlers didn't care what Terri wanted. The siblings didn't bother visiting her until the cameraseven showed
The police did an investigation when she collapsed as is normal when a young person collapses without any prior health problems. They found no indication of foul play and the subsequent investigations found nothing. You're reaching when you think he could have strangled her and caused her condition. There was no killing involved here. Medical treatment was withheld how long do you think the government would have paid to keep her alive?
Lol she never tried to say "I want to live". The lawyer for the Schindlers claimed that. You don't think it odd that the Schindler's personal lawyer who is paid by them would make such a ridiculous statement? I hardly call moans of "ahhhh waaaaa" her saying I want to live she could have been saying "I want to die" just as easily. Witnesses came forward stating if she was ever in a similar situation she wouldn't want to live like that. Isn't she in a better place now?
Pogue Moran-I know from your other comments that you are not a believer in the afterlife, so to use that as an argument shows oportunism on your part. More importantly, witnesses also came forward saying that she would have wanted to live "like that," she was cruelly dehydrated to death and her husband was living with another woman. Marriage does not make someone her spouses's property to do with as the spouse pleases when she is in a disabled state, yet the law ignored this conflict of interst
How is it obvious I don't believe in the afterlife? You're making some rather bad assumptions based on my use of actual logic compared to your lack thereof. You think you'd be happy she was in a better place. Ah yes one witness who was the schindler's hired attorney who claimed she said "I want to live" even though it was more like ahhh wahhh. For all she knows she could have said "I want to die now leave me alone". You want to talk about property? Her own parents treated herlikeaplaything
Her parents stated in court that they did not care what her wishes were and if they knew them they wouldn't follow them because keeping her alive made them "happy". This was never about her but more about their own egos. Look how much they profited off showing videos of her in her compromised state. Look how they made money selling off the donor list and quit their jobs to make a "foundation" which doesn't even fulfill any of its actual purpose.Who said she wanted to live like that?
PM-I've heard you mock religion, and use so-called logic to argue that Christians were the only ones against what happened to Terri. You have totally ignored the role of disability rights groups in this situation, and have mocked people who believe in an afterlife directly, so it is obvious you don't believe in an afterlife, since you have openly mocked this belief itself.
You've heard? Based on what? Those at the hospiace protesting were far outnumbered by the media presence they were supported by right wing fundamentalists and terrorist supporting Randall Terry. Calling her disabled is an understatement that's like saying a double amputee has arm troubles. I don't mock people who believe in an afterlife. What are you worried about she's in a better place right? Where have I mocked the afterlife? You're making assumptions based on what?
Oh and people say she would have recovered. well guess what, it had been 15 years..... When she finaly died they looked at her brain.... it had shriveled to half it's orginal size... Recover from that? you act like we have no soul for allowing her peace! Would you rather she just sat in a bed for another 40 years? Thats like chaining someone up! And you call us evil? Reasearch what you preach!
Look up Nancy Cruzan. Reasearch her condition! What happens is terri's heart works while her brain is dead. She is in what is called a persistant vegitative state. she cannot hear feel or anything. it's not murder, nor killing. you say there is no such thing as mercy murder. she wasen't murdered in fact she was already dead! her heart and other organs just kept working. would you like not to be able to move or think? people demanding that letting u rest was murder?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If you look at the debate over the death penality, you will discover that Terri Schindler-Schiavo was the only innocent person to be given the death penality!
She wasn't given the death penalty you idiot. She was allowed her choice to refuse medical treatment in accordance with her wishes. You're such an asshole Terri never took the name Terri Schindler-Schiavo in her life and you bring her great dishonor by not calling her by her real name.
I hope my reference to the jury does not cause any confusion. No jury ever declared that she should die! In 1992 a jury declared that her husband should get a "lottery payout" of 1 million dollars. The fact of the matter is that no Dr said she had any sort of eating disorder or medical condition that would cause her to be in the state she was in. Multiple special interest groups rushed in to kill her so that the state would gain more power over human life!
The 1992 claim was based on the dr having a part in the negligence for not catching any problems terri might have had when getting pregnant. It was decided though that she did probably have an eating disorder and all evidence at the time pointed towards that. Her own parents even thought she had an eating disorder when they thought they'd get some money. You get crazier by the second claffey
FACT: No Dr,back then, or at the autopsy ever diagnosed her with an eating disorder. FACT: eating disorders do not cause this type of injury. Otherwise there would be 10 million Terri Schiavos. For those of you how claim " but the jury ruled that it could! " Jurors do not make a medical diagnosis. In fact, in medical cases, any jury pool members who have any medical knowledge at all are automatically dismissed. The original cause remains unknown!
You wouldn't know the facts if they bit you in the ass claffey. Back in 92 the evidence suggested there was an eating disorder. To say that an eating disorder doesn't cause cardiac arrest is absurd. There have been many times that an eating disorder had an effect on the person's heart to the point they collapsed. The anoxic brain damage came from the lack of oxygen and her heart stopping for over 15 minutes. Anoxic brain damage is progressive and gets worse over time. Its cause and effect.
It used to be that this country was upset with lethal injection, for known ailments(kevorkian) Now we willing accept painfull death by starvation from an ailment from an unknown cause. What is next for this country?
Once again you throw out logical fallacies. People dying of cancer often ask to not be fed. They feel hunger different than we do. She stated to her loved ones she would not want to live like that. How long would you have dragged her out if she could feel pain like you claim then that would be a horrible existence not being able to control your body or be sentient of your surroundings.
The funny and most hypocritical thing about these people is that they tried to kill the judge that ordered the feeding tube removed. I don't support euthanasia being legal like in Holland and Oregon but honestly the people who were protesting outside were hypocrites. Pro-life my ass!!
this issued pissed me off intensely. why does everything have to get politicized? the media is ruthless. exploiting something as sensitive as this. as if the schiavo family wasn't fucked up enough about it! it's a complicated issue and i don't care what your opinion is, if you were someone screaming "live" or "die" you sheeplessly bought into the media's sensacionalist agenda and caused more pain and confusion to schiavo's family.
YOU AGAIN?! Are you suggesting that she gained weight while on a feeding tube? Feeding tubes are not fattening. You refer to a 200 pound woman as anorexic. I would hate to see what your girlfriend looks like.
You're a total absolute idiot. She was 200 pounds when she was back in high school. People say she was annorexic because before the time of her collapse she had dropped to 120 pounds. She lost a lot of weight over a short period of time. This could be the reason she collapsed because she might have been purging. People who purge could be at the risk of having cardiac arrest. The gaining weight could be attributed to sitting in a bed for years.
She was never 120# Anyone who looks at before and after pictures knows she was 200# You (falsely) accuse me of not getting the facts straight, yet you say she was anorexic? Have you looked at Miss America? any model on any runway? That is anorexic. Terri obviously was not. Anorexia is of course the wrong explanation for cause of her state. The explanation must be elsewhere.
My God you are completely insane you can't even get the facts of this case right. Go back and read through documents relating to the case she was 200 pounds in high school, after high school her physician recommended the nutrisystem diet where she lost 55 pounds. In May 1989 when she visited Dr. Prawer she weighed 121 pounds and was referred to Dr. Igel an Obgyn for amenorhea. You can't even seem to get her weight right let alone simple facts of the case.
She was referred for treatment. What was the results????? HMMMMM???? According to the autopsy conducted by Dr Thogmartin, who reviewed all the medical records, he determined that she did not suffer from any eating disorder. The false accusation was that she had bulima nervosa. Michael won an award from based on that false accusation. Will he return the money to Dr Prawer or Dr Igel? The autopsy report is the classic example of how the headlines does not match the information in the news story.
No Thogmartin said that he couldn't confirm or deny it. Its hard to find evidence of an eating disorder 15 years after the fact. That's not something that would show up in an autopsy moron. Her body had enough time to heal that any eating disorder that contributed to her collapse would not have been visible. No Michael won an award based on loss of consortium and the lawsuit was wittled down because it was mainly determined it was terri's fault. Hard to return money that was spent onhercare
Please review the actual autopsy report from a public official! It turns out that the state of Fl has a law similiar to the Freedom of Informaiton Act. Dr Thogmartin reviewed all of the past records and concluded that she did not have an eating disorder. The death certificate was labeled inconclusive. Once again a classic example of the headlines not matching the story. Didn't all you liberals suddenly declare the story over with the autopsy report?
I have reviewed the autopsy report which is something you haven't done. He couldn't confirm or rule out an eating disorder he just said he found no evidence of it. You're not being logical. Do you really think if you had an eating disorder it would show up 15 years after the fact when you stop having an eating disorder? The story was over with the autopsy report and it wasn't liberals declaring it it was a majority of the people out there. Bear in mind you crazy types are the minority.
Dr Thogmartin very clearly stated in his Autopsy report that she did not have an eating disorder! This is a classic example of the headlines, not confirming to the facts of the story! Once again, as I have clearly stated, this is not about the end of life. This is about, how did she end up in that state in the first place? Just what sort of a country or society are we?
No thogmartin said he found no evidence that she had an eating disorder. Can you follow simple logic claffey? If you have an eating disorder and over a period of 15 years you adjust your eating habbits there is no way it would show up later Pay close attention Thogmartin stated that currently available evidence was insufficient to either definitively rule out the existence of an eating or nutritional disorder or to conclude with reasonable certainty that it was the cause of her collapse.
Furthermore, all experts in the 1992 proceedings - relying on all available contemporary records and witness recollections - opined that Terri suffered from an eating disorder and the jury unanimously agreed. Yes what kind of society do we live in where zealots don't rely on fact nor the law and are willing to force people against their will to do what they want. You are not rational Claffey. Stop relying on right to life sites and actually read the damned autopsy report.
I dont get it.. if the husband did it he would be in jailo.. PERIOD.. why dothey think he had anything to do with it.... I mean if she was hit over the head or something then they qwould have saw that right?
Its called rationalization. They've put her on such a pedastal that they think she's a saint at this point. God forbid she might have had something to do with her collapse. Somehow this restaurant manager was craftily enough to not leave any marks on her body and fool everyone for 15 years including the police who investigated. Somehow he bought them all off, all the judges, all the police, medical staff, the governor, the state. This man had more power than God himself in their eyes.
You have called me "completely insane" Does that mean that you think that I am brain dead? Does that mean that you think that I should not live the life that I lead? Does that mean that you would cut off all food and water to me? Would you chain shut my refrigerator? Since I disagree with you, what would you do to me? Michael Shiavo has founded a PAC to force people to be euthanized without their consent or their knowledge. What is the future of USA?
No it means you are insane in that you continue spouting off incorrect information and then say im the one bullshitting you. Michael's PAC has nothing to do with what you claim it is merely to respect people's wishes. You do know Terri's family subsists completely off their "charity" which has done nothing but collect money from willing saps like you. They quit all their jobs in order to mooch off you. Meanwhile Michael still has a job.
I know that you are going to respond in 30 seconds. I have the same question about that I have always had. Do you even have a life? I only check e-mail once every so often. Do you spend all waking(even more?) hours online? What is this case to you? The death of Terri is the Emmet Till case of the 21st century. (google that in your spare time) The total denial of human rights to life based upon a decision from a lynch mob mentality. And they completely get away with it.
Nope wasn't 30 seconds I don't spend as much time on here as you. You usually respond right after I respond. You wonder why I call you insane? It was the previous rant and this rant that you just had that proves it. Apparently you know less about the emmet till case than you did the terri schiavo case. Terri Schiavo was awarded more due process than any other person out there. Her rights were upheld. She stated she didn't want to live like that and so medical treatment was withheld.
UNANSWERED QUESTION!! What caused the "no quality of life"? How was the flow of oxygen cut off to her brain, at the same time that her throat was damaged to the point of being unable to swallow food?
Listen,my comment was not referring to any crimes that may have been committed.The state she ended up in there is not quality of life.Doctors,forensic specialists,police,are suppose to invstetigate any criminal intent.I am am employed in a medical field though not a doctor have seen ppl without quality of life.I wouldn't want to live like that.I hope she's at peace now.
Her throat was not damaged to the point of being unable to swallow food. This idea of yours comes from nowhere in the medical records. She couldn't swallow food because her brain stem didn't have the full capacity to do so. Her cerebral cortex was destroyed.
The digestive system is an autonomic process. It does not require the higher brain functions(cerebral cortex) No person could even possible concentrate on ordering all the tasks the trachea, stomac, liver, pancreas, gall bladder, small intestines, large colon all perform. Swallowing is an autonomic task. The best example, is while sleeping. Saliva, (and even phlegm during these increasing cold temperatures) are routinely swallowed without conscious thought. What caused physical damage?
The digestive system has nothing to do with your ability to swallow. You're talking about the stomach and not the actual mechanism for ingesting food as opposed to digesting food. Is there anything you can actually talk on with some authority? Thus far you have failed miserably on every topic you've talked about. Swallowing is not an autonomical task that is why when they did the autopsy there was evidence that she had been aspirating. It is because she didn't have the ability to swallow.
Swallowing saliva is automatic yes otherwise we would choke on our own saliva on our sleep. Swallowing food is a different matter if it was automatic as you say have someone pour water into your mouth while you sleep and see how that works out. She didn't have the ability to swallow because her cerebral cortex was destroyed she failed multiple swallow tests. There was no physical damage on her throat where is proof of this? You keep talking about it but any damage would have healed.
I find it ironic that this woman was in the state she was because she wouldn't eat and in order to end her suffering they had to pull the tube that fed her. The only objection I find in this is that it wasn't possible for her to be given a lethal injection to end it quickly instead of letting her body starve. I don't know if she felt anything but it should have been done quickly.
The autopsy showed she had 50% of her brain. What is the cutoff point? Would you starve someone with 55%? 60%? 70%? 80%? 90% brain capacity? 95%? 99%? Come one, what is the cutoff point that you would starve someone?
The autopsy said she had her cerebral cortex destroyed. The 50% you're talking about his that her brain weight is 50% of what it should have been. She was functioning on only a brain stem. When someone says to their loved one they wouldn't want to live in that condition how long is it before you honor their wishes or do you totally ignore their wishes? Her family stated they didn't care what her wishes were and if they had known them they would have ignored them.
Spamming the same thing over and over again doesn't make you right claffey. It just makes your argument so weak that you have to repeat it over and over again. Terri Schiavo told witnesses she wouldn't want to live the way she was forced to live. The parents stated in court they didn't care what terri would have wanted and would have done what they wanted regardless. They cared nothing for their daughter.
Listing the myriad ways that starvation and dehydration is painfull is not "the same thing over and over again". FACT: it was a cruel and unusual death and just what sort of human being would wish it upon themeselves or upon someone else?
You wouldn't know the facts as you have never witnessed anyone close to this condition. I've told you time and time again you still starve when you're on a feeding tube and still feel the pain associated with hunger. However, as she had not higher brain functions she most likely wasn't able to process that pain.
Terri Shiavo did not request this form of death! 14 days of starvation,dehydration, and torture! It is an extremely agonizing form of death! Please do not insult me, and others , by claiming otherwise.
Bob Schindler used to call his daughter fat and make fun of her. Great dad way to give your daughter low self esteem. Which is probably why she ended up in the condition she was in because she was trying to stay skinny through extreme means
Anorexia does not cause this type of injury. Otherwise, there would be 10 million Terri Schiavos. Just what can cause the flow of oxygen to be stopped to the brain , and at the same time damage the throat to the point of not being able to swallow food?
How the hell do you know? You're not a doctor. People who are far gone in their purging can have their heart stop or collapse and at that point when oxygen is cut off to the brain anoxic brain damage is possible. There was no throat damage time and time again you claim this when there's no proof of it. She couldn't swallow because her brain no longer had the capability that's why she failed the swallow tests
The whole Terri Shiavo situation is just so complex. I am fully in support of euthanasia, assisted suicide, but this was a totally different case. Humans should have the right to speak for their-selves, but she did not have that capability obviously. The court systems should not have allowed her husband who she had no affiliation with in years make the decision.
i totally respect this video and everybody's perspective but... in my point of view she wasnt muredered bcuz if it wasnt for human's hand she would have died long time ago, it wasnt herself living it was the tube or whatever she was connected to.. i dont know
Terry Schaivo was a VEGETABLE. Her brain was gone. Her vision center had been dead for years. She was only being kept alive through artificial means. She had NO hope of 'recovery' any more than you can recover a casette tape that has been erased. Her death was the only way to end the pain for those around her. I'd hardly call that 'murder.'
She was treated like a human being as opposed to the trophy that her parents treated her like. They stated in Court they did not care what her wishes were and they wouldn't follow them if they did know. They said keeping her alive made THEM feel better. Why is it the whole family has quit their jobs to make money off her name? Looking at the filings of their charity makes the whole practice even more questionable.
Terri's cause of death, starvation, is blamed on "they." "They starved you to death." The thing about that is, if it were up to the people allowing her to die, she would probably have been mercifully dispached with a dose of morphine. Instead she had to wither away from lack of water.
Except, of course, that this was not murder. I sometimes think Christians don't believe in eternal life. If they did, they wouldn't react to death the way they typically do. In any event, I'm sure even you can agree that, if someone is going to be killed, a dose of morphine is a kinder death than starvation. (If one can feel pain, which Terri apparently couldn't.)
Terri was not murdered she was allowed to pass on naturally. How long would you force someone to stay alive on a feeding tube without any hope of recovery even though they have stated to loved ones they wouldn't want to live like that? She had no way of recovering. Would you keep your loved ones in that condition? Her parents kept her around like some sort of trophy and stated they didn't care what she wanted.
PogueMoran, in addition to your comment being incorrect, you have incorrectly stated her parents actions. The parents know better than you about the real situation.
The parents showed nothing but their own greed in the entire situation. Bob Schindler twice filed bankruptcy and now him and his family are living off the good will of the right to life movement and saps who paid money to buy videos they hawked on their website. They've shown that they cannot come to grips with their own grief and because of that they will never get through the grieving process. Aligning themselves with the terrorist Randall Terry only backfired
The parents showed themselves to be questionable as they consistently deceived the court and lied to the court on multiple occasions. They also stated in court that they didn't care what Terry's wishes were that they wouldn't follow them and that they kept her alive because it made them feel good. Their whole fight had less to do with Terry and more to do with themselves.
There have been no perjury charges,and obviously no conviction. In America, a person is innocent ,unless and until proven guilty. So therefore immediately cease and desist saying they lied to the court!
This was not a criminal case fool. Obviously you don't even understand what perjury is. You can lie and not be perjuring yourself. And yes the court did discipline the schindler family for contempt and for a time they were not allowed to be near terri
No life is sacred... It's true; if everything that lived is dead and everything alive is going to die, when does life become sacred? Cancer cells aren't sacred, are they? Your thanksgiving Turkey wasn't sacred enough to be saved. How about that throat infection you went to the doctor for-- those anti-biotics you were prescribed were truly doing the Lord's work, right?
Terry Schiavo was fucking DEAD years before they finally pulled the plug.
lisambofoh 3 months ago 2
Butt scratcher? BUTT SCRATCHER!
creamygoodness420 1 year ago
euthanasia must be a right!
living in a coma or in pain... is not a life...
milkakat 1 year ago
Brought back many sadful moments. Video is very good.
I just finished my video about Terri; look under goody59
goody59 1 year ago
Everyone still needs to look at how she got into that condition in the first place. The official explanation was proven wrong during the autopsy. Thogmartin found that "there was no proof that Terri Schiavo ever had an eating disorder such as bulimia." So how did she end up like that?
claffey27 1 year ago
@claffey27 That's horseshit and you know it claffey the autopsy couldn't prove one way or the other the coroner stated such. Any signs of anorexia would be disappear after 15 years of not being able to move on your own. Which is why Terri gained weight again. However there was also severe osteoporosis which had set in.
PogueMoran 1 year ago
@PogueMoran The headlines did not match the autopsy report. What was the real cause?
claffey27b 1 year ago
@claffey27b And which headlines are those that don't match the autopsy report? You mean the point that Terri Schiavo was blind according to the autopsy? I remember at the time many people who couldn't face reality on the Schindler's side tried to discredit the autopsy report because it painted such a bleak picture.
PogueMoran 1 year ago
@claffey27b There were many details in the press that were wrong. Since you mentioned the blind part, let's start with that. The press made it sound like that she was blind the entire time! In fact the blindness was caused by the dehydration process which damaged all components of the ocular organ. Oh, and bye the way, in my best Columbo imitation, the entire idea that anorexia could cause this situation was discredited by the autopsy report.
claffey27b 1 year ago
@claffey27b Incorrect. The blindness was caused by the disconnect in the neural pathways from her brain to her eyes. Her eyes were intact, however her brain could not interpret the light coming from her eyes. So nice try again but the dehydration process had little to do with it. Her cerebral cortex was completely destroyed. This just goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. It had nothing to do with her eyes being destroyed. No the autopsy report didn't.
PogueMoran 1 year ago
@claffey27b The autopsy report stated it couldn't rule one way or the other about Anorexia. Too much time had passed and the body had plenty of time to repair her weight problems. Someone who had anorexia 15 years ago would not have it show up 15 years later.
PogueMoran 1 year ago
@PogueMoran Typcical liberal positiion. You have an absolutely hatefull position towards life. You are no different than those ahols in gainesville who want to burn a holy text. I have a reservation to travel on 9/12 You, like all liberals, have no respect for life, religion, the rule of law or anything else. I am in greater danger because of people like you. Of course, you will obviously cheer if something bad happens to me.
claffey27b 1 year ago
@claffey27b As usual claffey you disappear for a month only to come back here rambling on like the idiot you are. I have plenty of respect for life. I find it funny that you ramble on as such but then probably have a problem with health care reform and say the single payer option. Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery and it just goes to show how little you know about the situation. Those who have had a loved one in a similar situation don't act as you do. This hasnothing to do withpolitics
PogueMoran 1 year ago
@claffey27b Also your last bit is rather dumb. I have not shown you my economic or social views for you to even construct a label. But like most extremists you jump to labels so quickly that you lose site of reality. I have no respect for the rule of law? That's rather ironic and funny. The rule of law has been followed in this case. It is you who has no respect for the rule of law or the laws that this country has that you'd want to have judges rule the way you want them to
PogueMoran 1 year ago
It's murder, no matter how many of you try and cover it up. Just because someone cannot talk, someone cannot move their legs, cannot perform, doesn't mean they don't have a soul and do not deserve to live.
Just because you wouldn't like to be her, also doesn't give you a reason to kill.
chavrons1 1 year ago
Michael Schiavo is a low down sorry piece of shit he kill his wife cause she had another woman and had alot of insured on her whoever said he was a nice guy wake the hell up she is gone and the piece of shit is still living i hate everytime i see his nasty ass face .
rip terri you will always be beauiful
monalisasmith 2 years ago
After 15 years mona any money which was around 1mm was not enough to cover all her care. She died on medicaid. It was Terri Schiavo's father who wanted him to date and "get laid" and his family met his girlfriend. She never was going to recover no matter how much you pretend or wish
PogueMoran 2 years ago 4
@PogueMoran Your statement is incredibly false, just like all your others. There is absolutely no way that any father would say that to their daughter's husband! But yet, you say that in a way that you would actually expect people to believe it!
claffey27b 1 year ago
@claffey27b I love how you come back here months after the fact to posit another false comment. I'm sure you think that Mr Schindler was at her bedside for those 15 years when in reality he rarely showed up neither did the siblings. It wasn't until after the media got involved that they actually visited regularly. Mr Schindler was bankrupt the media circus was the best thing for his pocketbook.
PogueMoran 1 year ago
agree!! The fact that he chose the painfull method of starvation/dehydration, tells you alot about who he is. It is still unanserwed as to how she got into that condition in the first place. Bye the way, have you ever read the book "a life that matters"? There is a lot of information in that book that has not been on TV, internet or any other politically correct place.
claffey27 2 years ago
Everyone who enters the media, does so with the intention of spreading their left wing agenda. Whether it is to give judges the arbitrary power of life or death with no appeal, or to support their favorite candidate for President. I did not see the health care infomercial(according to the ratings, not many others saw it either) I find it difficult to belive that Charlie Gibson was asking "republican questions" given his past history. Gibson, Couric, and Williams have lost all credibility!!
claffey27 2 years ago
Good god Claffey you're back with another steaming pile of shit. "Left" wing agenda. The media is owned by conservative corporations. They report what gets ratings. John McCain was their favored candidate before Obama came along. They brought him donuts, went to his house, flew on his plane.
PogueMoran 2 years ago
@claffey27 I KNEW that Randall Terry, James Dobson and Tony Perkins were all left-wingers! It all makes sense now! They got into the media to spread their left-wing agenda! George Rekers founded FRC to spread the homosexual agenda. I suspected Perkin (like his namesake) was a big fag.
Thanks for getting the truth out there, claffey!
virtuallypaul 1 year ago
@virtuallypaul Your reply to my original post makes no sense whatsoever. I made no references to any of the people you mentioned. Are you sure that you intended to respond to me? Are you sure that this was intended for this video? Are you sure that you can pass a drug test?
claffey27b 1 year ago
@claffey27b "Everyone who enters the media, does so with the intention of spreading their left wing agenda."
That means that Dobson & Co. are trying to spread a left-wing, homo agenda. That is why, by your standard, they entered "the media". That's what you meant to say, right?
Go back and get your GED, little wingnut, and learn how to write.
virtuallypaul 1 year ago
Michael Schiavo is no hitler. I read his book, and the only reason he wrote the book was because Terri's family told too many lies for him to just verbally dispute them, and not for attention like Terri's family and the right to life fanatics who thrive on it.
BigArtistMiMi 2 years ago
I don't know the reason he wrote his book. However, I do know that it wasn't to get his story told. All the networks, were on his side in a one sided way. Sort of a run-up to their later being in the tank for Obama. Everyone in the news media repeated everything he said(including the ridiculous statement that starvation was not painful) as though it were the un-challenged truth!!
claffey27 2 years ago
Rational people don't believe in conspiracies like you do claffey. The networks were on his side because a majority of Americans were on his side. The media made the protests out to be something bigger than they were. The media outnumbered the protesters at the hospital more than 2 to 1 just like during the "letterman protest". The media wasn't in the tank for Obama they were more favorable to Hillary and McCain than they were to Obama
PogueMoran 2 years ago
Did you actually say "The media wasn't in the tank for Obama they were more favorable to Hillary and McCain than they were to Obama " ???!!! I don't know what the Obama campaign was doing in 2005. But it was extremely obvious who all three networks and every major paper were rooting for in 07&08. It is pretty obvious that you believe everything that your read on the internet. That must be the reason that you believe in the views that you do. Try reading books sometime. Or get some fresh air
claffey27 2 years ago
Yeah Idid sa that because its true.A study was done and showed that throughout the election coverage the media was more favorable to McCain.Just because they mentioned Obama doesn't mean they were favorable.A majority of the news articles were negative and brought up stuff about ayers, wright, birth certificates and other discredited BS.I believe reality Claffey which is something you righties haven't done in a long time.I read books which is more than I can say for you as you don't do research.
PogueMoran 2 years ago
ABC news has relocated to the WhiteHouse. The President has joked about how that Brian Wiliams is in bed with him. Chris Matthews has made comments about the thrill running up his leg.(1,2or 3?) How can you say with a straight face that the news media does not act on a common liberal impulse to interpret stories according to their byas?! Every reporter says the reason they went into journalism is to "make a difference"
claffey27 2 years ago
I see your typing but all I hear is more whining. Where were you when Fox News got exclusives inside the white house with the president, first lady and cheney? When they were doing puff pieces for the white house. The forum that was hosted by ABC News was moderated by Charles Gibson who parroted republican talking points. Doesn't seem like such a bias. If there was bias Gibson wouldn't be using republican talking points and they were have planted soft ball questions in the crowd.
PogueMoran 2 years ago
To you righties any report that doesn't parrot your right wing talking points is considered bias. There are no shades of grey in your world which isn't in line with reality
PogueMoran 2 years ago
What is wrong with someone who is in serious incurable pain wanting to die? I could see if there wa s acure. but if you felt every minute of every day that you were on fire, your skin being peeled from your muscle, like pins were being shoved under your nails, Or similar pain without cure. Should you not want it to stop?
Charagrin 3 years ago
I dOn't know wat 2 think abOut the situation of Terri.. sOmeone ask me that if I were in the cOndtion of Terri schiavo wat would I feel? Her husband and family are arguing about her and even people in the media and in the politics are on it.. If I were Terri I'll be sad seeing my family and my husband are arguing about her cOndition instead of helping each other they even go 2 court just to prove their own beliefs.
donna0408 3 years ago
yeah,,
last March 18,2005
donna0408 3 years ago
Her brain wasn't functioning in the same way that yours and mine does. That doesn't mean that it wasn't functioning at all or that it was okay to kill her.
Progo35 3 years ago
Likewise it does not mean it was not ok to killer her. A person should be able to choose for themselves within reason whether to live or die. Beyond the usualy self-pitying teen or other person trying to commit suicide, most scuicidal people have a good reason. incurable pain, Or insanity.
Charagrin 3 years ago
No but her telling witnesses she didn't want to live in that condition made it okay to refuse treatment. Patients willfully deny themselves treatment everyday in the US. Saying her brain wasn't functioning the same way mine or yours does is an understatement. Its like calling a double amputee someone who has arm troubles. The only part of her brain that was functioning was the stem which controls lower brain functions like breathing, sleeping. The conscious part of her brain was gone
PogueMoran 3 years ago
If you shot a nondisabled person, you could also make the argument that he or she is in a better place, and that wouldn't make shooting them okay. Just because David Gibbs and I happen to agree on some aspects of the Schiavo autopsy doesn't mean that I got my information from him. But, I don't know that discussing this together is worthwhile. You obviously are very set in your view of this case, as am I.
Progo35 3 years ago
Yeah but if you're shooting someone you're taking an active role instead of what happened in Terri's case by letting nature run its course as it would have 15 years back. The david gibbs explanation just isn't based on logic though. Its not probably in the medical world when you factor everything else in and it has already been discounted.
PogueMoran 3 years ago 6
okay, poguemoran-
if you locked a non-disabled person in a closet and left them there with no food or water, you would also be "letting nature take it's course," and it would still be murder.
Progo35 3 years ago
Yeah false equivalences are always good. Pull out that red herring. Yeah because if you locked me in a closet id try to break down the door and you'd actively be committing murder. I could still feed myself I'd still have survival skills I wouldn't have my cerebral cortex completely destroyed. What you're saying isn't even apples to apples. Terri's brain was gone multiple witnesses said that she said she wouldn't want to live like that. Keeping her alive with no cerebral cortex istorture
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Finally, the celebral fluid is exactly what I'm talking about. The biology book articulated that due to dehydation, the fluid leaks out as the brain collapses in on itself. My research in this matter HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DAVID GIBBS. DAVID GIBBS IS A LAWYER. I LOOKED IN MY BIO BOOK for a SCIENTIFIC DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BRAIN DURING DEHYDRATION. If your goal is to use logic to make decisions, I strongly suggest that you not make assumptions about the people you are dialoguing with
Progo35 3 years ago
You're not making sense. The cerebral fluid would normally be less than the brain weight itself. Its not normal for the cerebral fluid to outweigh the brain. Look at the Karen Quinlan case her brain weighed far more than terri's at death. You're making the argument that Gibbs made saying her brain weight was entirely attributable to dehydration and not the fact that most of her brain was destroyed take your own advice you've made some rather bad assumptions.
PogueMoran 3 years ago 4
Incidently, if you think that what was done was so great, than why do you hang out here arguing with people? Your side "won," so what are you so uptight about?
Progo35 3 years ago
I'm not on any side but the rights of the individual. This happens everyday in America are you standing outside every hospital bitching about it or is this just your cause celebre? Stop getting so emotional and use logic. Would you want to live trapped like that for 15 years as your body continued to deteriorate? The parents didn't care what her wishes were and they stated it in court. This was never about her but more about them.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
quertyfello-IF YOU WERE DEPRIVED OF WATER FOR TWO WEEKS, YOUR BRAIN WOULDN'T LOOK SO HOT, EITHER!!!!
Progo35 3 years ago
You must think that the coroner is completely stupid? They figure in that sort of thing when doing the autopsy and even with the lack of water the brain was smaller than it should have even been. That's what happens when a good portion of your brain is destroyed. Her cerebral cortex was completely dead the only thing keeping her alive was the brain stem which controls things like breathing and lower brain functions.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
PM-If you look at the neurological report, you will see that the coronor listed marked dehyration as the cause of death...he never articulated whether or not that affected the size of her brain. I also took core biology last year and our biology book said that certain parts of the brain start to shrivel and collapse in on themselves without water. (Life, a core biology textbook.) This also causes blindness, which was noted after Terri's death.
Progo35 3 years ago 2
Ive read the report and seen the brain scans. If you saw the initial brain scans you would see that her brain was totally abnormal compared to a normal brain. Her cerebral cortex was destroyed. The cerebral cortex controls higher brain functions she never would have been able to be rehabilitated or had a normal life. So you don't think having the main section of her brain completely destroyed had anything to do with her brain being so light?
PogueMoran 3 years ago 2
Maybe when you read through your biology book you might read that its not normal for the skull to contain more cerebrospinal fluid than the brain itself. The fluid weighed 678 grams while her brain weighed 615. Using the david gibbs suggestion that the weight loss was entirely linked to the dehydration is not based on reason.
PogueMoran 3 years ago 3
I agree with you Progo35! Finally someone that agrees on the simple fact that she died b/c of DEHYDRATION.
PogueMoran is a stuck up, argumental individual who loves to promote his side AND HIS SIDE ONLY of the truth, as I've found out in various debates. :)
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
There's nothing stuck up about my side. Your side doesn't rely on truth but rather anecdotes. Until you've lived through a similar situation with people's medical right to refuse treatment you have nowhere to grand stand from
PogueMoran 3 years ago
I understand that if some one of a SANE mind who is fully capable makes this decision he/ she is entittled to it..they will answer for themselves. But what about when you have others trying to make the decision for you..if you are hady cap or old. The law as I read is not very clear on that. What abaout that?
WhatAchickado 2 years ago
So you're saying Terri wasn't sane? As told by witnesses in court Terri had said if she was ever in a condition like that she wouldn't want to live like that. The law is very clear on oral directives. Now how about this her parents testified in court that they didn't care what Terri's wishes were that they would keep her alive because it made them feel good. They said they would do everything to keep her alive including open heart surgery and amputation of limbs because its what theywanted.
PogueMoran 2 years ago 3
I think that what happened was tragic..why on earth would they let her die like that..it takes days! and it torture. Why is it that a dog is put to sleep in a more humane way. No onne has that right. And if some one of a sane mind wants to die...how painfull is the process. Is it always in this way. I know that with hospice they diprive nutrients and morphine speeds up the process. Please educate me I want to be better informed! please.
WhatAchickado 2 years ago
You're right a dog is put to sleep in a humane way but those on the right don't believe in that so this was the only way. You're assuming with the way her brain was absolute mush and the cerebral cortex being destroyed that she could feel pain the same way you or I do.
PogueMoran 2 years ago
I don't know if I agree that it was painful for her, considering what neurosurgeons have said. Pulling out teeth with pliers would hurt a lot. But dentists do it every day and people don't feel pain. It's because comparing our normal consious state with any other state is not comparing apples to apples.
bchernak 2 years ago
Let's look at the prior statement quoting "I hardly call moans of "ahhhh waaaaa" her saying I want to live she could have been saying "I want to die" just as easily." Well if she was doing that,then she obviously did have mental capacity and the claims of PVS are obviously proven to be false. If she was saying she wanted to live, respect that wish. If she was saying she wanted to die, Baker Act her as a threat to herself until she receives proper medical treatment.
claffey27 3 years ago
You think a crying mother had selfish reasons when she wanted her daughter alive? Eh? You want your mom to pull your plug when you become a vegetable? Huh??
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
She had selfish reasons because she stated she had selfish reasons in court. The family stated they didn't care what her wishes were they would never have followed them. How is one supposed to get through the grieving process if they couldn't even accept the condition their daughter was in. I hope to god if I ever was in that condition my family would have the decency to follow my wishes and let me move on. She's in a better place what are you crying about?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Terri Shiavo was murdered. Murdered by starvation. Her husband is a heartless wretch. Anyone who doesn't agree ought to have their plug pulled the SAME WAY when they are in her "vegetable state".
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
I would hope if someone says they don't want to live like that that you'd have the honor and decency to follow their wishes instead of keeping them alive indefinitely because its what you want and not what they want. The fact of the matter is that this was less about how Terri would have felt and more about how the parents felt. The parents stated in court they didn't care what her wishes were and if they knew them they wouldnt follow them because keeping her alive made them happy.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Indeed no. I completely agree with your first half. If someone wrote a will declaring that they want no feeding tube, I actually respect that. But you're saying this is entirely based on her parents' personal desires? Dear Uninformed, you have only to see the evidence. Her wonderful husband, after pledging to keep and love her forever in court, winning his case against the doctor for millions of $, got a girlfriend and started cheating on his lawful wife, while the PARENTS cared a LOT more!
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
If I were you i'd contemplate changing your username. We do agree the parents cared a lot more... about the money. The fact is no one at her age would have written out a living will and even if she had her parents wouldn't have followed it. I've seen all the evidence you on the other hand would rather believe rumors that have no basis in fact. Terri told several witnesses she didn't want to live like that. Mike brought this up in the 92 suit against the doctor. He didn't win millions.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
In all the suit was settled for under a million with Michael getting some for loss of consortium. The reason he didn't win more is because it was concluded she was partially at fault for what happened. The fact is he didn't even have to wait that whole time. If he really wanted to get rid of her like you claim as Guardian he could have pulled the feeding tube without the parents being involved. He got her all the rehab possible and it all failed.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
He could have pulled the plug anytime he wanted and we never would have heard about this story. He did the right thing and let the courts decide. Bob Schindler encouraged Michael to date and the Schindlers met many of his gfs. The Schindlers also used to have information supporting the original diagnosis of PVS and information relating to her eating disorder on their website up until the time that the fight over the money occurred and then they pulled off all supporting information
PogueMoran 3 years ago
The Schindlers sure as hell didn't know how to show they cared. In Court they stated they didn't care what her wishes were if they knew them they wouldn't follow them and they would do anything to keep her alive even if it meant amputations and open heart surgery because keeping her alive made them feel better. She was a human being not a pet. If they really cared they would have known when to let go. Instead they all quit their jobs and are milking her name for money.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Okay, so I did a mistake in putting an S on millions. Haha...I'm here laughing because you worried enough to write four long paragraphs. I got one word for you. If you care so much about this case, look up "Fighting for Dear Life" and watch all 4 parts. It's by a CLA Attorney, a group I personally trust and know, and gives the complete facts of everything about her. P.S. I will keep my username, thank you. And yours rather suits you...
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
Lol you wouldn't know the facts if they bit you in the ass. So since you were off on your multitude doesn't that also mean your other "facts" were also off. Yeah I'm sure you think my name fits me if you actually could read. Its Pogue Moran its an irish combination. Well the truth knows no limits because its more than obvious you are devoid of facts relating to this case. The fact is the Schindlers knowingly deceived the court on multiple occasions and were in it for the money
PogueMoran 3 years ago
BTW I have seen David Gibbs mockery of a documentary. This is the same guy who lost the case horribly because he had no grasp of the actual legal system. Everything him and the Schindler's attorneys tried had no basis in jurisprudence.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Oho guess what. I just checked ALL the news sources. I don't know what you were looking at, but he won over 1.5 million.
That's more than a "million". That's million plural.
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
No he got several hundred thousand for loss of consortium and she got 750,000. Sorry bout when you say millions that denotes 2 million or more not 1.5 so yes you were wrong on the millions of dollars. BTW if you get sick I guarantee you that 750,000 she got wouldn't last no 15 years.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
With that 750K Shiavo's husband paid out $358+K to lawyer Felos and $80+ to lawyer Bushnell, leaving only $50K in Terri's fund.
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
The money he paid out in lawyers fees came from his loss of consortium award not from the actual money from the court. He couldn't touch the money for her care without approval for the court. There were no alterior motives. People are taken off feeding tubes everyday in this country and you don't hear about it where is your selective outrage there?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
If people want to die, let them. Keep your dumb religion to yourself. Anyone who's terminally ill or severely brain damaged should be allowed to die with dignity in the manner of their own choosing without a bunch of bible-thumping idiots protesting.
JohnSmith54533 3 years ago
Overlooking your rudeness, you have only proved my point. Anyone who's terminally ill or severely brain damaged should be allowed to die with dignity in the manner of their own choosing. Amen!! Terri NEVER SAID SHE WANTED TO DIE. Show me a will. Show me a statement. She tried to say I want to live.
thetruthreturns 3 years ago
Whatever. Florida courts and about 20 people that testified say otherwise. Only her parents wanted her to remain in a vegetative state for their own selfish reasons. Take a look at her autopsy report in regards to her brain.
Anyone that's terminally ill and wants to commit suicide should be allowed.Your religions are all lies. Prayer has been shown to have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on a person's recovery.
JohnSmith54533 3 years ago
Terri Schiavo did not leave anything in writing about what she would want if she ever became incapacitated. Over the years, courts had sided with her husband -true. Bad judges. Look it up. Her parents said she could get better with rehabilitation, which was CONFIRMED by doctors, who also said it was possible that her husband could have strangled her before her collapse! You have not addressed the point. Allowed to die in the manner of choosing does NOT mean killing a woman who had no will.
thetruthreturns 3 years ago 2
She was a young woman how many people do you know in their twenties leave written wills? Even if she did leave her will the parents still wouldn't have followed it. They stated in court they didn't care what her wishes were and would keep her alive because it made them feel better. There's nothing bad about all the judges in the case. They followed the letter of the law. She could not be rehabilited lots of doctors tried over years and she couldn't.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
The only doctor who said she could have been rehabilitated was a charleton who claimed he was nominated for a nobel prize, he wasn't. He runs a cash only clinic and had no case studies to prove he could rehabilate her. Not only that but he presented no course of action on how to rehabilitate her. Which means he was clueless and only trying to get money. Yeah I find it hard that a lowly restaurant manager could "strangle" her without ever leaving any marks.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Pogue Morgan is spouting crap and has no idea of what he's talking about, so don't listen to him.
Progo35 3 years ago
Yeah I'm "spouting crap" that's backed up by the facts of the case, the coroner's report and reports from several of her guardian ad litems. Anyone who has had a loved one in a situation such as that knows that there comes a certain point that no matter how hard it is and how you feel about it eventually what you want has to be overridden by what your loved one would have wanted. The schindlers didn't care what Terri wanted. The siblings didn't bother visiting her until the cameraseven showed
PogueMoran 3 years ago
The police did an investigation when she collapsed as is normal when a young person collapses without any prior health problems. They found no indication of foul play and the subsequent investigations found nothing. You're reaching when you think he could have strangled her and caused her condition. There was no killing involved here. Medical treatment was withheld how long do you think the government would have paid to keep her alive?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
John Smith-so, it's not okay to mention religion when discussing Schiavo, yet it is okay for you to use her case to prove your own point? Way to go.
Progo35 3 years ago
Lol she never tried to say "I want to live". The lawyer for the Schindlers claimed that. You don't think it odd that the Schindler's personal lawyer who is paid by them would make such a ridiculous statement? I hardly call moans of "ahhhh waaaaa" her saying I want to live she could have been saying "I want to die" just as easily. Witnesses came forward stating if she was ever in a similar situation she wouldn't want to live like that. Isn't she in a better place now?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Pogue Moran-I know from your other comments that you are not a believer in the afterlife, so to use that as an argument shows oportunism on your part. More importantly, witnesses also came forward saying that she would have wanted to live "like that," she was cruelly dehydrated to death and her husband was living with another woman. Marriage does not make someone her spouses's property to do with as the spouse pleases when she is in a disabled state, yet the law ignored this conflict of interst
Progo35 3 years ago
How is it obvious I don't believe in the afterlife? You're making some rather bad assumptions based on my use of actual logic compared to your lack thereof. You think you'd be happy she was in a better place. Ah yes one witness who was the schindler's hired attorney who claimed she said "I want to live" even though it was more like ahhh wahhh. For all she knows she could have said "I want to die now leave me alone". You want to talk about property? Her own parents treated herlikeaplaything
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Her parents stated in court that they did not care what her wishes were and if they knew them they wouldn't follow them because keeping her alive made them "happy". This was never about her but more about their own egos. Look how much they profited off showing videos of her in her compromised state. Look how they made money selling off the donor list and quit their jobs to make a "foundation" which doesn't even fulfill any of its actual purpose.Who said she wanted to live like that?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
PM-I've heard you mock religion, and use so-called logic to argue that Christians were the only ones against what happened to Terri. You have totally ignored the role of disability rights groups in this situation, and have mocked people who believe in an afterlife directly, so it is obvious you don't believe in an afterlife, since you have openly mocked this belief itself.
Progo35 3 years ago
You've heard? Based on what? Those at the hospiace protesting were far outnumbered by the media presence they were supported by right wing fundamentalists and terrorist supporting Randall Terry. Calling her disabled is an understatement that's like saying a double amputee has arm troubles. I don't mock people who believe in an afterlife. What are you worried about she's in a better place right? Where have I mocked the afterlife? You're making assumptions based on what?
PogueMoran 3 years ago 3
Oh and people say she would have recovered. well guess what, it had been 15 years..... When she finaly died they looked at her brain.... it had shriveled to half it's orginal size... Recover from that? you act like we have no soul for allowing her peace! Would you rather she just sat in a bed for another 40 years? Thats like chaining someone up! And you call us evil? Reasearch what you preach!
qwertyfello 3 years ago
Look up Nancy Cruzan. Reasearch her condition! What happens is terri's heart works while her brain is dead. She is in what is called a persistant vegitative state. she cannot hear feel or anything. it's not murder, nor killing. you say there is no such thing as mercy murder. she wasen't murdered in fact she was already dead! her heart and other organs just kept working. would you like not to be able to move or think? people demanding that letting u rest was murder?
qwertyfello 3 years ago
It isn't murder.. It's Euthinasia. One is because of anger, greed, envy. The other. is because of empathy and mercy.
Chunky549 3 years ago 8
Chunky549, there is no such thing as mercy murder.
rosaryfilms 3 years ago
Amen.
thecelticharp 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you look at the debate over the death penality, you will discover that Terri Schindler-Schiavo was the only innocent person to be given the death penality!
claffey27 3 years ago
She wasn't given the death penalty you idiot. She was allowed her choice to refuse medical treatment in accordance with her wishes. You're such an asshole Terri never took the name Terri Schindler-Schiavo in her life and you bring her great dishonor by not calling her by her real name.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
I hope my reference to the jury does not cause any confusion. No jury ever declared that she should die! In 1992 a jury declared that her husband should get a "lottery payout" of 1 million dollars. The fact of the matter is that no Dr said she had any sort of eating disorder or medical condition that would cause her to be in the state she was in. Multiple special interest groups rushed in to kill her so that the state would gain more power over human life!
claffey27 3 years ago
The 1992 claim was based on the dr having a part in the negligence for not catching any problems terri might have had when getting pregnant. It was decided though that she did probably have an eating disorder and all evidence at the time pointed towards that. Her own parents even thought she had an eating disorder when they thought they'd get some money. You get crazier by the second claffey
PogueMoran 3 years ago
What is the point of this video? Terri Schiavo was dead long before her heart stopped beating.
jippy33 3 years ago
FACT: No Dr,back then, or at the autopsy ever diagnosed her with an eating disorder. FACT: eating disorders do not cause this type of injury. Otherwise there would be 10 million Terri Schiavos. For those of you how claim " but the jury ruled that it could! " Jurors do not make a medical diagnosis. In fact, in medical cases, any jury pool members who have any medical knowledge at all are automatically dismissed. The original cause remains unknown!
claffey27 3 years ago
You wouldn't know the facts if they bit you in the ass claffey. Back in 92 the evidence suggested there was an eating disorder. To say that an eating disorder doesn't cause cardiac arrest is absurd. There have been many times that an eating disorder had an effect on the person's heart to the point they collapsed. The anoxic brain damage came from the lack of oxygen and her heart stopping for over 15 minutes. Anoxic brain damage is progressive and gets worse over time. Its cause and effect.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
It used to be that this country was upset with lethal injection, for known ailments(kevorkian) Now we willing accept painfull death by starvation from an ailment from an unknown cause. What is next for this country?
claffey27 3 years ago
Once again you throw out logical fallacies. People dying of cancer often ask to not be fed. They feel hunger different than we do. She stated to her loved ones she would not want to live like that. How long would you have dragged her out if she could feel pain like you claim then that would be a horrible existence not being able to control your body or be sentient of your surroundings.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
The funny and most hypocritical thing about these people is that they tried to kill the judge that ordered the feeding tube removed. I don't support euthanasia being legal like in Holland and Oregon but honestly the people who were protesting outside were hypocrites. Pro-life my ass!!
ArtGaul 4 years ago
this issued pissed me off intensely. why does everything have to get politicized? the media is ruthless. exploiting something as sensitive as this. as if the schiavo family wasn't fucked up enough about it! it's a complicated issue and i don't care what your opinion is, if you were someone screaming "live" or "die" you sheeplessly bought into the media's sensacionalist agenda and caused more pain and confusion to schiavo's family.
fedeman2 4 years ago
UNANSWERED QUESTION!!! Why was a 200 pound women declared by the courts to be "ANOREXIC"?
claffey27 4 years ago
She wasn't 200 pounds at the time of her collapse. UNANSWERED QUESTION!!!! How do you walk around without a brain?
PogueMoran 3 years ago
YOU AGAIN?! Are you suggesting that she gained weight while on a feeding tube? Feeding tubes are not fattening. You refer to a 200 pound woman as anorexic. I would hate to see what your girlfriend looks like.
claffey27 3 years ago
You're a total absolute idiot. She was 200 pounds when she was back in high school. People say she was annorexic because before the time of her collapse she had dropped to 120 pounds. She lost a lot of weight over a short period of time. This could be the reason she collapsed because she might have been purging. People who purge could be at the risk of having cardiac arrest. The gaining weight could be attributed to sitting in a bed for years.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
She was never 120# Anyone who looks at before and after pictures knows she was 200# You (falsely) accuse me of not getting the facts straight, yet you say she was anorexic? Have you looked at Miss America? any model on any runway? That is anorexic. Terri obviously was not. Anorexia is of course the wrong explanation for cause of her state. The explanation must be elsewhere.
claffey27 3 years ago
My God you are completely insane you can't even get the facts of this case right. Go back and read through documents relating to the case she was 200 pounds in high school, after high school her physician recommended the nutrisystem diet where she lost 55 pounds. In May 1989 when she visited Dr. Prawer she weighed 121 pounds and was referred to Dr. Igel an Obgyn for amenorhea. You can't even seem to get her weight right let alone simple facts of the case.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
She was referred for treatment. What was the results????? HMMMMM???? According to the autopsy conducted by Dr Thogmartin, who reviewed all the medical records, he determined that she did not suffer from any eating disorder. The false accusation was that she had bulima nervosa. Michael won an award from based on that false accusation. Will he return the money to Dr Prawer or Dr Igel? The autopsy report is the classic example of how the headlines does not match the information in the news story.
claffey27 3 years ago
No Thogmartin said that he couldn't confirm or deny it. Its hard to find evidence of an eating disorder 15 years after the fact. That's not something that would show up in an autopsy moron. Her body had enough time to heal that any eating disorder that contributed to her collapse would not have been visible. No Michael won an award based on loss of consortium and the lawsuit was wittled down because it was mainly determined it was terri's fault. Hard to return money that was spent onhercare
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Please review the actual autopsy report from a public official! It turns out that the state of Fl has a law similiar to the Freedom of Informaiton Act. Dr Thogmartin reviewed all of the past records and concluded that she did not have an eating disorder. The death certificate was labeled inconclusive. Once again a classic example of the headlines not matching the story. Didn't all you liberals suddenly declare the story over with the autopsy report?
claffey27 3 years ago
I have reviewed the autopsy report which is something you haven't done. He couldn't confirm or rule out an eating disorder he just said he found no evidence of it. You're not being logical. Do you really think if you had an eating disorder it would show up 15 years after the fact when you stop having an eating disorder? The story was over with the autopsy report and it wasn't liberals declaring it it was a majority of the people out there. Bear in mind you crazy types are the minority.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Dr Thogmartin very clearly stated in his Autopsy report that she did not have an eating disorder! This is a classic example of the headlines, not confirming to the facts of the story! Once again, as I have clearly stated, this is not about the end of life. This is about, how did she end up in that state in the first place? Just what sort of a country or society are we?
claffey27 3 years ago
No thogmartin said he found no evidence that she had an eating disorder. Can you follow simple logic claffey? If you have an eating disorder and over a period of 15 years you adjust your eating habbits there is no way it would show up later Pay close attention Thogmartin stated that currently available evidence was insufficient to either definitively rule out the existence of an eating or nutritional disorder or to conclude with reasonable certainty that it was the cause of her collapse.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Furthermore, all experts in the 1992 proceedings - relying on all available contemporary records and witness recollections - opined that Terri suffered from an eating disorder and the jury unanimously agreed. Yes what kind of society do we live in where zealots don't rely on fact nor the law and are willing to force people against their will to do what they want. You are not rational Claffey. Stop relying on right to life sites and actually read the damned autopsy report.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
I dont get it.. if the husband did it he would be in jailo.. PERIOD.. why dothey think he had anything to do with it.... I mean if she was hit over the head or something then they qwould have saw that right?
DivaAwwKrazy 3 years ago
Its called rationalization. They've put her on such a pedastal that they think she's a saint at this point. God forbid she might have had something to do with her collapse. Somehow this restaurant manager was craftily enough to not leave any marks on her body and fool everyone for 15 years including the police who investigated. Somehow he bought them all off, all the judges, all the police, medical staff, the governor, the state. This man had more power than God himself in their eyes.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
You have called me "completely insane" Does that mean that you think that I am brain dead? Does that mean that you think that I should not live the life that I lead? Does that mean that you would cut off all food and water to me? Would you chain shut my refrigerator? Since I disagree with you, what would you do to me? Michael Shiavo has founded a PAC to force people to be euthanized without their consent or their knowledge. What is the future of USA?
claffey27 3 years ago
No it means you are insane in that you continue spouting off incorrect information and then say im the one bullshitting you. Michael's PAC has nothing to do with what you claim it is merely to respect people's wishes. You do know Terri's family subsists completely off their "charity" which has done nothing but collect money from willing saps like you. They quit all their jobs in order to mooch off you. Meanwhile Michael still has a job.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
I know that you are going to respond in 30 seconds. I have the same question about that I have always had. Do you even have a life? I only check e-mail once every so often. Do you spend all waking(even more?) hours online? What is this case to you? The death of Terri is the Emmet Till case of the 21st century. (google that in your spare time) The total denial of human rights to life based upon a decision from a lynch mob mentality. And they completely get away with it.
claffey27 3 years ago
Nope wasn't 30 seconds I don't spend as much time on here as you. You usually respond right after I respond. You wonder why I call you insane? It was the previous rant and this rant that you just had that proves it. Apparently you know less about the emmet till case than you did the terri schiavo case. Terri Schiavo was awarded more due process than any other person out there. Her rights were upheld. She stated she didn't want to live like that and so medical treatment was withheld.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
This is the reason we fill out DNRs if we have no quality of life.
ellzedd41 4 years ago
UNANSWERED QUESTION!! What caused the "no quality of life"? How was the flow of oxygen cut off to her brain, at the same time that her throat was damaged to the point of being unable to swallow food?
claffey27b 4 years ago
Listen,my comment was not referring to any crimes that may have been committed.The state she ended up in there is not quality of life.Doctors,forensic specialists,police,are suppose to invstetigate any criminal intent.I am am employed in a medical field though not a doctor have seen ppl without quality of life.I wouldn't want to live like that.I hope she's at peace now.
ellzedd41 4 years ago
Her throat was not damaged to the point of being unable to swallow food. This idea of yours comes from nowhere in the medical records. She couldn't swallow food because her brain stem didn't have the full capacity to do so. Her cerebral cortex was destroyed.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
The digestive system is an autonomic process. It does not require the higher brain functions(cerebral cortex) No person could even possible concentrate on ordering all the tasks the trachea, stomac, liver, pancreas, gall bladder, small intestines, large colon all perform. Swallowing is an autonomic task. The best example, is while sleeping. Saliva, (and even phlegm during these increasing cold temperatures) are routinely swallowed without conscious thought. What caused physical damage?
claffey27 3 years ago
The digestive system has nothing to do with your ability to swallow. You're talking about the stomach and not the actual mechanism for ingesting food as opposed to digesting food. Is there anything you can actually talk on with some authority? Thus far you have failed miserably on every topic you've talked about. Swallowing is not an autonomical task that is why when they did the autopsy there was evidence that she had been aspirating. It is because she didn't have the ability to swallow.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Swallowing saliva is automatic yes otherwise we would choke on our own saliva on our sleep. Swallowing food is a different matter if it was automatic as you say have someone pour water into your mouth while you sleep and see how that works out. She didn't have the ability to swallow because her cerebral cortex was destroyed she failed multiple swallow tests. There was no physical damage on her throat where is proof of this? You keep talking about it but any damage would have healed.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
I find it ironic that this woman was in the state she was because she wouldn't eat and in order to end her suffering they had to pull the tube that fed her. The only objection I find in this is that it wasn't possible for her to be given a lethal injection to end it quickly instead of letting her body starve. I don't know if she felt anything but it should have been done quickly.
ahab1138 4 years ago 2
I feel very bad about this whole situation, but keeping her alive attached to some machine like some vegtable would have been hellish.
Perhaps it was for the best. :/
zperra 4 years ago
Terri Schiavo did not request this form of death!
dehydration causes inflammation of the back of the eye and loss of eye sight.
claffey27 4 years ago 2
Either way, she could not feel the pain. When you are brain dead, your brain is literally....dead.
NickjonaslovesUS 3 years ago
The autopsy showed she had 50% of her brain. What is the cutoff point? Would you starve someone with 55%? 60%? 70%? 80%? 90% brain capacity? 95%? 99%? Come one, what is the cutoff point that you would starve someone?
claffey27 3 years ago
The autopsy said she had her cerebral cortex destroyed. The 50% you're talking about his that her brain weight is 50% of what it should have been. She was functioning on only a brain stem. When someone says to their loved one they wouldn't want to live in that condition how long is it before you honor their wishes or do you totally ignore their wishes? Her family stated they didn't care what her wishes were and if they had known them they would have ignored them.
PogueMoran 3 years ago
Terri Schiavo did not request this form of death! The skin becomes so sensitive it peels off upon firm contact.
The lining of the nose can crack and bleed. Dried brain cells can cause convulsions.
There is nothing necessarily dignified about dying from the slow and torturous process of being starved to death
claffey27 4 years ago
Spamming the same thing over and over again doesn't make you right claffey. It just makes your argument so weak that you have to repeat it over and over again. Terri Schiavo told witnesses she wouldn't want to live the way she was forced to live. The parents stated in court they didn't care what terri would have wanted and would have done what they wanted regardless. They cared nothing for their daughter.
PogueMoran 4 years ago
Listing the myriad ways that starvation and dehydration is painfull is not "the same thing over and over again". FACT: it was a cruel and unusual death and just what sort of human being would wish it upon themeselves or upon someone else?
claffey27 4 years ago
You wouldn't know the facts as you have never witnessed anyone close to this condition. I've told you time and time again you still starve when you're on a feeding tube and still feel the pain associated with hunger. However, as she had not higher brain functions she most likely wasn't able to process that pain.
PogueMoran 4 years ago
Terri Shiavo did not request this form of death! 14 days of starvation,dehydration, and torture! It is an extremely agonizing form of death! Please do not insult me, and others , by claiming otherwise.
claffey27 4 years ago
Bob Schindler used to call his daughter fat and make fun of her. Great dad way to give your daughter low self esteem. Which is probably why she ended up in the condition she was in because she was trying to stay skinny through extreme means
PogueMoran 4 years ago
Anorexia does not cause this type of injury. Otherwise, there would be 10 million Terri Schiavos. Just what can cause the flow of oxygen to be stopped to the brain , and at the same time damage the throat to the point of not being able to swallow food?
claffey27 4 years ago
How the hell do you know? You're not a doctor. People who are far gone in their purging can have their heart stop or collapse and at that point when oxygen is cut off to the brain anoxic brain damage is possible. There was no throat damage time and time again you claim this when there's no proof of it. She couldn't swallow because her brain no longer had the capability that's why she failed the swallow tests
PogueMoran 4 years ago
The whole Terri Shiavo situation is just so complex. I am fully in support of euthanasia, assisted suicide, but this was a totally different case. Humans should have the right to speak for their-selves, but she did not have that capability obviously. The court systems should not have allowed her husband who she had no affiliation with in years make the decision.
MitchellDyer 4 years ago
i totally respect this video and everybody's perspective but... in my point of view she wasnt muredered bcuz if it wasnt for human's hand she would have died long time ago, it wasnt herself living it was the tube or whatever she was connected to.. i dont know
nahlaalzareen 4 years ago 2
Terry Schaivo was a VEGETABLE. Her brain was gone. Her vision center had been dead for years. She was only being kept alive through artificial means. She had NO hope of 'recovery' any more than you can recover a casette tape that has been erased. Her death was the only way to end the pain for those around her. I'd hardly call that 'murder.'
DevSodDribble 4 years ago
DevSodDribble, NO, Terri (not Terry) was a human being and deserved to be treated like a human being.
rosaryfilms 4 years ago
She was treated like a human being as opposed to the trophy that her parents treated her like. They stated in Court they did not care what her wishes were and they wouldn't follow them if they did know. They said keeping her alive made THEM feel better. Why is it the whole family has quit their jobs to make money off her name? Looking at the filings of their charity makes the whole practice even more questionable.
PogueMoran 4 years ago
This is quite disturbing.
Terri's cause of death, starvation, is blamed on "they." "They starved you to death." The thing about that is, if it were up to the people allowing her to die, she would probably have been mercifully dispached with a dose of morphine. Instead she had to wither away from lack of water.
hailvishnu 4 years ago
hailvishnu, there is no such thing as mercy murder.
rosaryfilms 4 years ago
Except, of course, that this was not murder. I sometimes think Christians don't believe in eternal life. If they did, they wouldn't react to death the way they typically do. In any event, I'm sure even you can agree that, if someone is going to be killed, a dose of morphine is a kinder death than starvation. (If one can feel pain, which Terri apparently couldn't.)
hailvishnu 4 years ago
hailvishnu, no, you are wrong. Terri was murdered.
rosaryfilms 4 years ago
no, you're wrong, and this video creeps me out big time!
danmcv5 4 years ago
danmcv5, no, you are wrong. Terri was murdered.
rosaryfilms 4 years ago
Terri was not murdered she was allowed to pass on naturally. How long would you force someone to stay alive on a feeding tube without any hope of recovery even though they have stated to loved ones they wouldn't want to live like that? She had no way of recovering. Would you keep your loved ones in that condition? Her parents kept her around like some sort of trophy and stated they didn't care what she wanted.
PogueMoran 4 years ago
PogueMoran, in addition to your comment being incorrect, you have incorrectly stated her parents actions. The parents know better than you about the real situation.
rosaryfilms 4 years ago
The parents showed nothing but their own greed in the entire situation. Bob Schindler twice filed bankruptcy and now him and his family are living off the good will of the right to life movement and saps who paid money to buy videos they hawked on their website. They've shown that they cannot come to grips with their own grief and because of that they will never get through the grieving process. Aligning themselves with the terrorist Randall Terry only backfired
PogueMoran 4 years ago
The parents showed themselves to be questionable as they consistently deceived the court and lied to the court on multiple occasions. They also stated in court that they didn't care what Terry's wishes were that they wouldn't follow them and that they kept her alive because it made them feel good. Their whole fight had less to do with Terry and more to do with themselves.
PogueMoran 4 years ago
There have been no perjury charges,and obviously no conviction. In America, a person is innocent ,unless and until proven guilty. So therefore immediately cease and desist saying they lied to the court!
claffey27 4 years ago
This was not a criminal case fool. Obviously you don't even understand what perjury is. You can lie and not be perjuring yourself. And yes the court did discipline the schindler family for contempt and for a time they were not allowed to be near terri
PogueMoran 4 years ago
No life is sacred. Certainly not mine, certainly not Terri's. It was her husbands decision, and he made the right one.
PapaRoacher 4 years ago
paparoacher, "no life is sacred" May I quote you on that? Perfect
left-wing/athiest/environmentalist/socialist whacko statement
claffey27 4 years ago
My God claffey you make yourself sound nutty. What does Papa roacher's statement have to do with politics or environmentalism or socialism?
PogueMoran 4 years ago
No life is sacred... It's true; if everything that lived is dead and everything alive is going to die, when does life become sacred? Cancer cells aren't sacred, are they? Your thanksgiving Turkey wasn't sacred enough to be saved. How about that throat infection you went to the doctor for-- those anti-biotics you were prescribed were truly doing the Lord's work, right?