@ximomo1 F-86 pilots were credited with shooting down 792 MiGs for a loss of only 78 Sabres. 10:1 victory ratio. They flew against veteran Russian pilots, not Koreans. That's not propaganda, that's fact.
@mig21lover no, that's a fact. But I know better than to bother explaining such things ot someone whose name is "Mig21Lover" and who states right above said comment "best interceptor/better than sabre"...your mind is already made up, and fact won't dissuade you. Seen your kind before.
@jnevins1234 Russians dont care about looks. They prefer to make brutally simple weapon platforms (ex AK-47). Looks dont win wars, the men, the weapons, the tactics, and the choices made combined together is what wins a war.
@dogfight001 The hell they don't. They make their choppers and tanks these days to be ugly as hell, which gives them a very menacing, and mean beauty to them.
Also, take a look at the Su-27 Flanker or S-47 Berkut, you can't honestly tell me they didn't put some artistry into the design of either of those, they are both gorgeous and deadly looking.
they should do an episode in the point of view of a Mig pilot...
They did a Luffwaffe episode so maybe it would be nice if they find a Viet airman or a russian black op pilots that fought in the korean or vietnam war..
@JEREX101 oops I think there's still have oatmeal left in my ears (if why I lost my head set) thought it was LED (Light-emitting diode) because you know... incendiary,x-mas light made up of LED = x-mas tree.
@JEREX101 i'm sorry you had to read that, I'll try to abstain from corrupting your young mind any further with tales of what i was forced to do in the hostile skies of mig alley (where i got raped)
I think that MiG-15s would have had better kill ratio if they used their advantages by climbing to high altitude once they take off and attacking only when their in advantage since the sabers can't climb to the MiG-15's altitude.
I think that MiG-15s would have had better kill ratio if they used their advantages by climbing to high altitude once they take off and attacking only when their in advantage since the sabers can't climb to the MiG-15's altitude.
@om996jo the fact of the matter was that the f 86 was an air superioty fighter while the mig was an interceptor designed to shoot down high level bombers not dogfight with better trained american pilots. plus the mig was an unstable gun platform
@om996jo and those same russians claim over 650 f 86 sabres which is complete bullshit 10:1 kill ratio for a reason. this is alos the last time the russians build anything close to being as good as american
@packr72 Explain the 70-90 American aircraft downed in Vietnam mostly by MiG-17s and the the fact that the highest scoring ace was a Vietnamese who scored 9 kills, all American, and the fact that most MiG-21 kills were made by AA-2 Atoll (K-13).
@packr72 you forget that the Vietnamese had excellent ground control and ambush tactics, plus their fighters where more maneuverable than the US F4 even after the introduction of the gun equipped F4E Vietnamese pilots like Mig-17 pilot nguyen van soat another one of Vietnam's top aces , still managed to get kills on a couple of phantoms
@Elfulcrum777 this has nothing to do with mig 17s vs f4 phantoms. this is about the f86 vs mig 15, the mig 17 in vietnam was out of date but good tactics and the fact that the americans were to afraid to bomb north vietnam airfields helped. i give you a good example of another out of date aircraft that got atlot of kills against better planes, the f2a buffalo had a 32:1 kill ratio in the winter war, its all about tactics and pilots not nessecarliy machines.
@packr72 i meant the brief Vietnam argument, i agree about man over machine , the MiG-15 was a very good air craft , it had better rate of climb and was more nimble than he F-86 and it had more powerful 37mm cannon compared to the 86's 50 cal machine guns, may i remind you that the Russian aces in the war did not get shot down the Americans only really got kills against the lesser trained Chinese and north Koreans, over 1000 allied air craft were brought down by MiGs and triple A in Korea
@Elfulcrum777 where are you getting your facts the allies did not lose 1000 planes in korea, most american pilots will telll u that they would never touch the mig 15, chuck yeager said it was an avergae plane. the 37 mm cannon was useless agianst the faster more nimble f 86. the f 86 was also a, donot believ russian and korean reports they claim over 600 sabres while their were hardly 500 sabres ever in korea the sabre also had a better gun sight and was a better gun platform, 10:1 kill ratio.
@packr72 the kill loss ratio, 10 to 1 is exaggerated, it was more like 3 to 1 , and it was due to the poor training of the Korean and Chinese pilots compared to the American pilots, but Russian pilots were highly trained and had experience from world war 2 they were not easy opponents , it wasn't so much technology but pilot ability, the MiG-15bis and the F-86F were in many ways equally matched, the F-86 was not as superior as you might think
@Elfulcrum777 i was wrong the offical was actually 14:1, if you gave me russian pilots from ww2 vs american pilots from ww2 ill take the americans not because im american, simply cause of what the best german pilots think of russian pilots. another big advantage the f86 had was it's diving speed wgich could excede mach 1 something that the mig couldn't do
@packr72 i am sorry but it wasn't 14 to 1, i don't know where you got that number, diving speed doesn't really matter much in dog-fighting unless of course the pilot is trying to escape from the fight using a high speed dive, i think you are being extremely biased here and not giving credit to the also very skilled Russian pilots of the war , if the Americans and their sabres had been as superior as you seem to think then they would have had total air superiority which they did not
@Elfulcrum777 the migs only operated in mig alley that covered only northern north korea. the reasons the migs kept flying was because truman didn't have the balls to send the bombers into china and crush the korean airforce on the ground. according to the us records the sabres enjoyed a 14:1 kill ratio. if you are going by communist recorde good luck.
@Elfulcrum777 During its long service life, the F-86 formed a part of the air forces of 24 different countries. e in The Sabre saw extensive service with the USAF during the Korean war, in which it achieved an outstanding exchange ratio of nearly 14 to I in combat with the Soviet-built MiG-15.
@Elfulcrum777 i was wrong, after chuck yeager test piloted the mig and had a mock dogfight once in an f 86 and once in the mig, he won both times and the said it's not the machines it's the man, however he also said he would rather have a sabre. remeber though the mig is strictly an interceptor, it cant escort bombers over enemy territory like the f 86, thus the f86 is an airsuperiority fighter and those are the planes that win wars not interceptors.
@packr72 your wrong on that too , the MiG-15 is classified as a jet fighter, not an interceptor, even though it can perform interception roles quite well, the only mig to be a dedicated interceptor was the MiG-25 fox-bat, anyways of course yeager would say that he would naturally prefer the plane made in his USA , and it has served in 24 of US allied air forces, just like the F-16 serves in almost all allied air forces now,
@Elfulcrum777 the mig 21 was originally built as an interceptor, the early migs were designed to intercept and destroy b 29 bombers. i don't know the real kill ratio wether it is 3:1 4:1 7:1 or 14;1 all i know is that sabre always came out on top and the sabre served long than the mig, and saying that dive speed doesn't matter is ridicoulos . one last point the sabre was beautiful aircraft, the mig like most things russians is crude. it will do the job and in some cases well but it aint pretty.
@packr72 yeah the MiG-21 was originally an interceptor but later versions were considered second generation fighter planes, the kill ratio was 3 or 4 to 1 but it wasn't because of technological superiority but superior training over korean and chinese pilots, that also large amount of kills on the Koreans side was due to highly trained Russian pilots, i meant dive speed don't matter much in a turning dogfight, and as for looks that is opinion based, i personally think MiGs are beautiful
@Elfulcrum777 migs are flying tractors, the f86 was also used by better airforces than the mig. the canadians, australians, the germans, japanese, turkey, and yugoslavia a communist country, all used sabres and sabres stayed on active duty in portugal until the 1980s long than the mig 15 and 17, plus if the war had continued the f86h would have been involved and it had 4 20 mm cannons and 2 30mm cannons, which out classes the mig 3 cannons.
@packr72 not of you compare it to the MiG-17 which had an improved 37mm and 23mm cannons on board, it was also of higher performance, plus MiG-17s are legendary for scoring kills on much more advanced F4 phantoms in Vietnam, and as far as the NATO reporting name of the MiG-15 fagot doesn't mean homosexual , but the bundling together of sticks or other things anyways i refuse to call the MiG-15 by what NATO named it cause they make the gayest names ever , except for fox-bat , that one was cool
@Elfulcrum777 yet with bad tactics, no gun and faulty missles the airforce achieved a 2.5:1 kill ratio( that's not good) but the navy achieved a 12:1 kill ratio with the f4. ever hear of the engagement when 2 ai skyraiders shot down 2 migs so yes a more advanced plane can be shot down by an inferoior plane, i'll take 6 cannons over 3 when was useless against(37mm) against fighters.
@packr72 the sky raider kill was nothing but luck, the MiG pilot got cocky and made a stupid decision, as for the F4 later versions such as the F-4E had internally mounted cannons, the missiles were faulty but most of the time would hit their target, , and still F4Es some of them were shot down by MiG-17 , and by K-13 missiles fired from MiG-21PFM, in ambush attacks, anyways , the MiGs were more nimble and hard to see, plus they couldn't be detected below 300 feet by F4 radar,
@Elfulcrum777 you mean a 20 mm vulcan gun, the missles where 50-50 besides the migs wouldn't directly challenge the f4s they went up to shoot down bombers often nva pilots would try and run from the americans but it wouldn't work. the usaf was to far ahead at the begining of the war to tackle an outdated airforce like the vietnamese. the mig 21 was very manorable but it's delta wing was not strong enough to survive many high g turns
@packr72 wow you really seem like you have no idea what you are talking about, Vietnamese guerrilla tactics worked well, they would have good ground control which placed the fighters in the right positions usually MiG-17's attacked from the front while MiG-21 took the rear and make quick escape btw the MiG-21 F-13 which were used in Vietnam could pull about 8 g's in a turn , earlier versions had a 3 g limit at high speed and high altitude , but at lower speed it could outmaneuver the phantom
@Elfulcrum777 if their tactics worked well why did america obtain complete air superiority over north vietnam, they could bomb them whenever they wanted to, and if the americans never had air superiority then operations like linebacker 1 and 2 would have never brought the vietnamese to the peace table. and i dont think their is any denying now who has the greatest fighter plane ever f 22 the russians, brits, french, germans, chinese, have nothing that is even close
@packr72 man are you ignoring that over 1000 us air craft were shot down due to SAM fire and MiG's and you lost over 58,000 troops. yes the Vietnamese lost almost 1 million but they are Asians, you kill 1000 there will be 2000 more ready to fight don't mean to be racist but its true, also they are braver because they go into battle despite the odds being heavily against them , i am sorry to say but you lost this one, the Vietnamese fought valiantly
@Elfulcrum777 that's what im saying, the only way to win the vietnam war was a massive invasion to the north and basically cut off the head and hope we can capture ho chi minh. we did lose alot of planes in vietnam but most were from aa and sam defenses.
@Elfulcrum777 that's what im saying, the only way to beat the vietnamese is to cut off the head( Ho Chi Minh), but operation linebacker did force the vietnamese to the table, that and our psycho pres. nixon was suggesting using tactical nuclear weapons against the north.
@packr72 Also i never said Vietnamese guerrilla tactics worked well to gain air superiority , that wasn't their goal , it worked well to prevent many many bombings by causing the F-105 thuds to jettison their payload before reaching their objective, usually by destroying a couple thuds and then bugging out , in these engagements is where F4's were lost , and like it or not dog-fighting tactics are important when fighting equally matched opponents which the USAF hasn't faced since Korea
@packr72 those air forces are all US allies even Yugoslavia at the time, and its the same as how now virtually all US allied air forces use the F-16, and how they will be receiving the F-35, it doesn't necessarily mean it was so much better it was just the best export for allied countries to buy at the time, and as far as tractors are concerned the MiG-15 and F-86 look very similar, their nose and tail sections are virtually the same, even the wings.
@Elfulcrum777 you claimed that the kill ratio's were faulty because the koreans wud claim they found f 86s shot down when the airforce wouldn't. that doesnt mean they were downed by migs, plus many pilots who ran out of fuel over north korea if they didn't make it to the coast, command would order any plane in the area to destroy the crash landed sabre.
@Elfulcrum777 and with vietnam the f4 was designed to shoot down planes beyond visible sight, NOT DOGFIGHT, it didn't even have a gun but it was an extremely fast plane that could turn on the afterburners and leave the migs in the dust, that includes the 17,19,21, most aircraft losses in vietnam were from AA fire and SAMS , not migs, hanoi had more aa guns around the city than berlin, vietnam was a failure on behalf of the us government, not are armed forces, our politicans had no BALLS
@packr72 Of course taking the easy way out and bombing there air fields would have been better, but the argument here is kill ratios, and you seem to think in a very biased way also if the so much faster F-4s could escape MiGs so easily , why were so many downed by small arc Atoll missiles and in a couple cases 23mm cannon fire from MiG-21 . and more cannon losses to MiG-17? if the USAF were doing so well explain how the Vietnamese managed to do that? plus vietnam had more aces than USA
@Elfulcrum777 lets not forget who your talking about in the vietnamese, the same people that turned away the mongols, helped throw the japanese out in ww2, their the french out in 1954, and out lasted the greatest superpower on the planet, i kinda think vietnam is the america of the east similar to the way we gained independence from the greatest superpower of the day.
@packr72 too be fair though , most of the Vietnamese kills were of vulnerable F-105 "thuds" the vietnamese usually didn't risk dogfighting , they're primary role was to get the US strike bombers to jettison their payload before reaching the objective and were fairly successful at doing so i have a link but the comment wont allow me to paste it in , there did well despite the odds being against them
@Elfulcrum777 if the us government had the kahones the vietnamese airfields would have been bombed into submission but we were to afraid the russian advisors would get killed, if the vietnamese still want to dogfight thats their beef, cause dogfighting unfortunatly for people like us has the way of the piston engine in fighter planes, the navy still teaches dogfighting but it is out of date, which kinda sucks being firing a missles take less skill than trying to aim a gun.
@packr72 are you a complete fool? killing Soviet and Chinese advisers could have led to a full scale nuclear war where millions would have died , it was wise for the government to not wanna risk that, do you think the Soviet Union and China would have been just an easy victory for the US i think not , you are dealing with 2 superpowers there which in combination i am sorry to tell you is much more powerful than the US and so is the European Union , the Ef2000 is also just as good as f22
@Elfulcrum777 no it wouldnt the chinese didn't back the nortth koreans and the russians didn't back the chinese, no one wanted a nuclear war with the united states cause at that time we had enough firepower to end the world several more times than the russians, plus the end of the cold war showed that russian nuclear capacity was no where near as good as america, even the soviets said that.
@packr72 the Chinese didn't back the north Koreans , then explain to me why Chinese forces converged on allied forces and drove them near defeat in the Korean war? i think you have no idea what you are talking about, the Soviet Union. China and North Korea were allies and all communist , they supported each other in the Korean war, the Soviet union however, had a more discreet presence in the war and the Chinese were open supporters and sent their troops into battle
@Elfulcrum777 you obviosly love communism, so i guess you like no freedom of speech and don't have to worry about being sent to a gulag, or suppose you dont like money cause no one in a communist country is rich, except the government officials. or i guess you like kim jong il starving 600,000 of his own people, or josef stalin killing millions in great purges, around 20 million of his own people, not even hitler killed that many of his own people, ps american icbms were better.
@packr72 what makes you think i love communism? just because i like MiG s and Russian air craft better than US jets? , its a fact that the Soviet union ,China north Korea and north Vietnam were communist doesn't mean i support communism , the argument was kill ratios and jets, i never once said i support communism, or people like Kim Jong because i don't , i am more of a socialist , i believe in power to the people and progress, whats your problem?
@Elfulcrum777 russia was never as strong as the us, they even admit it, the cold war was a battle between 2 bullies and the stronger bullier scared the living shit out of the other bully, their is also no evidence to suggest that china joins the ussr in ww3, their is no loyalty between other communist countries, russia had never had the strength to fight us in an open war, thats why we won they couldn't keep up. if ww3 ever happened millons if not billons die, but the west remains.
@packr72 Yes they were , there was a time when the Soviet Union was producing twice as much armor and weapons than the united states and had some of the fastest and most advanced long range strike bombers at the time , not to mention ICBMs , i never said china and Russia would join forces, but if both are provoked to war against the US for the death of their advisers to Vietnam, they would most likely have joined forces, i mean they were allied just a decade earlier in Korea and still are ,
@Elfulcrum777 yeah cause the soviets had a stealth bomber, oh yeah they didn't, agood percentage of that armour went to countries that bought it. russians were in korea for one reason, to gauge american fighting strenght and our weapons. one of the reason why russia was bankrupt was because of over production of material, dude the russians themselves have said they would have never won a nuclear war with the united states i still dont see why you support the communists, their evil governments
@packr72 Russia didn't go bankrupt until the fall of the soviet union you tool, before that the military at least had a lot of money enough to work on advanced projects, when did is say they had a stealth bomber? they had damn good bombers like the Tupolev Tu-160 which as probably the best long range jet bomber at the time i never once mentioned stealth, that technology still hadn't been developed by either side
@Elfulcrum777 yeah cause the soviets had a stealth bomber, oh yeah they didn't, agood percentage of that armour was shit anyways. russians were in korea for one reason, to gauge american fighting strenght and our weapons. one of the reason why russia was bankrupt was because of over production of material, dude the russians themselves have said they would have never won a nuclear war with the united states i still dont see why you support the communists, their evil governments
@Elfulcrum777 this aint even an arguement the f22 raptor is the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world nothing comes close, you cant kill something you cant see.
@packr72 Thats where you are wrong again, the F-22 can be detected on certain low band radar frequencies or with IRST , in mock dogfights with RAF Ef-2000 the F-22 was detected and locked on to from at least 80 miles according to the articles i have read , its not the aviation equivalant of god , no doubt its one of the best fighters ever, but not only Americans have made good technology, jets like the PAK FA and Euro-fighter are also top quality fighter air craft
@packr72 also for the record just because someone doesn't love the United States doesn't make them automatically evil or anti-freedom, i am entitled to my opinion and i have no support at all for the US government especially with so many innocent people US military bombs and soldiers have killed in Iraq and the oil hungry politicians and presidents that spear headed these atrocities, the US isn't some holy perfect nation, corruption exists in every level of Government
@packr72 there are plenty of articles and evidence that that 14 to 1 kill ratio is highly exaggerated but by how bias you are, you would probably just dismiss it all as communist propaganda, even though on multiple cases when the US denied they lost an air craft, north Koreans would find the wreckage of the downed us air craft that the US denied had been lost , i personally think the MiG-15 is one of the best early fighters it has proven itself to be tough , reliable and of high performance.
@om996jo LOL X 2 ......... the only wars that pakis fought were against India and they got ass raped by the Indian Air force so the sabres couldn't have been that awesome !! i mean c'mon take a look at these videos ........ the sabres turn around and shoot at the migs but the migs never turned around to take another shot at the sabres. its as if the mig pilots never had any training. this is bullshit.
yeah but you have to admit they had more trained pilot after 1965 war India claimed 17 aerial victories while Pakistan claimed more than 30 aerial victories.
about "and they got ass raped by the Indian Air force" you have to admit that the 1947 war and the 1965 war were, mostly, a tie.
most of Chinese and Korean pilots were poorly trained but some of these migs were flown by Russians who scored most of the 78 sabres shot during the war !!! :)
@om996jo statistically, yes PAF did claim a lot of indian planes but those were on the ground. You may have missed the indian air raid kills. there are 20 listed dogfight kills scored by IAF and admitted by PAF.
But given the kind of animosity these countries have towards each other this data could be inaccurate. However, there's no data that says PAF had scored more kills if u leave out the bomb runs and count the dogfights only. BUT I'd like to know ur source of information.
Ugh..... All Technology stolen or Taken by force by americans and soviets, from Germans after WW2..... from the Jets, Supersonic Rockets...... to submachine guns & Assault rifles. Nobody gives the Germans enough credit for their contributions.... So sad.....
@Maraudershark1 no....im agree with dexter...of course were all happy the the 3rd reich dosn´t exist anymore.... but most of the weapons and technologie used back in the korean war for example was simply just stolen... there´s also a funny line in some move (i dont remember the name) it say "our germans are better than their germans..." kinda funny XD
Funny how US pilots describe war as it is a game, I didn't know that USA wants to make their citizens believe that killing people is fun during war times. In the Warsaw pact soldiers took it a lot more seriously, even veterans from the wars described them as the most horrific thing you can see with your eyes and lived with the guilt of taking human lives, no matter if it was civilians or enemies. It's not about training, it's about ethics and I seriously doubt that US media wants to promote such
@zaho87. Tragic ain't it? A frend of who was in the military said US servicemen are totally broken down and rebuilt like that to see others as a statistic. They can also be a bit naive about the world. They are often come poor backgrounds with little education and not much chance to improve. Plus Amercain's can be VERY patriotic, I have nouthin wrong with haveing feelings for you country but there is a point where it becomes the virtue of the vicious.
@Strahoz. Ithought you were going to say something nasty to me! The US military are marsters at it, they kinda have too as most of there wars these days are unjuast (in a sense they all are in the end, no matter the reason even it's just) or being throwen into bad situations from bad leadership or politics that a private in other countrys would be able to assess.
@TheGroundedAviator all armies and military forces around the world do this. It's war, you can't show any weakness. It's not just the US. And most people in the AirForce are actually decently educated, so you're wrong there. Most Americans in the Armed Forces are middle class or lower class - not just lower class and poor backgrounds.
@albertsamerica It's mostley secondhand info from guys who had done joint work with the US military (Army mostly, being a pilot I know what you need for the Air Force) and found them hard to work with. And in war you can't show weakness but you can learn to controll it insteed of just shutting it out. And I don't wan't you to think I hate Americans or anything it's quite the opposite.
@zaho87 US pilots don't want to think about killing a person, so to them it helps them to think about the dogfight as more of a machine on machine battle. If you ask any US pilot who's seen someone die in an aircraft they shot down, up close and personal, they will tell you it isn't pretty. And i've heard Russian veterans or WW2 talk the same way - it's a military thing. Saying its just Americans is foolish, because there's a good number of US soldiers which don't view war as a game.
I would have liked them to profile some of the other countries pilots too but you know, they have a market to appeal to and you have to get that market in order to continue the show. If it had stayed on the air they may have done this. I haven't seen any other network put anything different forward. So unless you can convince them to your belly aching about the shows content just makes you sound whiney.
And thanks to the Poles we were able to evaluate the Mig 15. It's a shame how the rest of the world uses Poles. They found the Bismarck, Fought for Britain, Gave us the Mig, were the first to fight communism, had the first non-Roman Pope in 400 years, but their achievements are ignored.
@Historystartsnow God Bless the Poles. Nothing but respect for them. Not many have heard that the Poles inflicted more casualties on the Germans During the invasion of Poland than the British and French did to them during the battle for France.
@MIT1369 yeah, not to mention they made a HUGE contribution to the RAF, delivered the V1 to the allies, located the Bismarck, the list goes on and on... But in the end, it's the efforts of all those men that won the war.
@Historystartsnow rommel takes egypt, suez canal, and the middle east oil fields if the brits donot recieve huge numbers of tanks including the m3 lee and shermans plus the raf operated many p40 warhawks and early p51
Well, if you watch a Russian movie you'll see how soviet aces kicked their enemies...Nobody would tell that the enemy is better...I like the Mig15...This aircraft made many problems to the new Russian pilots who learnt how to use the new Mig19s and Mig21s...they say that sometimes the only thing to escape the 15 is to switch to afterburner and run...
This isn't very factual, since the mig 15s pretty much kicked the Americans' asses for 3 years starting in 1950, a crucial point which isn't addressed at all in this documentary, such propaganda...
@whitesox889 that was propaganda. the kill ration was more like 1.5-2. The two planes were actually pretty evenly matched, but not all MiG-15s were piloted by well trained Russians, so the kill ratio is in our favor.
No it wasn't. Most Mig-15 were flown by quickly trained chinese or north koreans. The kill ration for the russian pilots was 2-1 in their favor, but overall the F-86 had a 8 to 1 kill ratio. This stat is pretty well know...
ur mind set isnt correct the 8-1 kill ratio is right ive done my research and yes ive read the confirmed kills from both sides and found that many of these pilots on both sides cant back up their stories
Yo mean.. F-86 (US pilot).. vs MiG-15(Chinese Pilot).. 1:4 F-86(US pilot).. vs MiG-15(N.Korean Pilot).. 1:7 F-86(US pilot).. vs MiG-15(Russian Pilot) 1: 0.87 I have a book of Korean war air battles.. F-86 vs MiG-15.. kill ratio is 1 Sabre to 7.6 or 8.. MiG.. However its based on the Pilots.. I have read about a dogfight between 12 Sabres and 9 MiG-15.. Russian pilots.. only 1 Sabre survived and tells his story..
Korean War Records F-86 (US) vs MiG-15(Chinese) = 1:4 F-86 (US) vs MiG-15(N.Korean)= 1:7 F-86 (US) vs MiG-15(Russian)= 1:0.87 S.Korea F-51(SKorean) vs MiG-15(N.Korean) = 4:1 F-86(S.Korea) vs MiG-15(N.Korean) = 1:1.26 It shows that.. When MiG-15 is piloted by Russian It is most deadly.. F-86 is slower in acceleration than MiG-15.. and less maneuverable.. but Sabre has better top speed..
mig-15= the best interceptor of the Korean War.... better than the sabre in all instances....
mig21lover 1 week ago
they outto acknowledge the kills the honchos made on the sabres and also show that...
mig21lover 1 week ago
american bullshit :))
batrezz 3 weeks ago
fully respect for MiG-15 .. best fighter at the era
batrezz 3 weeks ago
korea era jet warfare was the best no heat/lock on missle shit it was ww2 syle dogfights with jet engines and machine guns
ww2guy100 3 weeks ago
Wonder how a Sabre would be if it could use missiles. Like modern ones,
Blahmarrow 2 months ago
propaganda
ximomo1 2 months ago
@ximomo1 F-86 pilots were credited with shooting down 792 MiGs for a loss of only 78 Sabres. 10:1 victory ratio. They flew against veteran Russian pilots, not Koreans. That's not propaganda, that's fact.
redreaper2020 1 month ago
@redreaper2020
It's not a fact.
As in any war both side over-exaggerate their victories and minify their losses.
Americans can't confirm a good portion of those 792 MiGs they supposedly shot down.
INDEFICIENTER2112 1 month ago
@INDEFICIENTER2112 those numbers have been pretty much agreed on by both sides.
redreaper2020 1 month ago
@redreaper2020 read up on that... that's not a fact that's your guess you heard of....
mig21lover 1 week ago
@mig21lover no, that's a fact. But I know better than to bother explaining such things ot someone whose name is "Mig21Lover" and who states right above said comment "best interceptor/better than sabre"...your mind is already made up, and fact won't dissuade you. Seen your kind before.
redreaper2020 1 week ago
Sabres are made in china, bangladesh or india as everything else.XD
coel3 3 months ago
SHINY MIGS..... MWUHAHAHA
OminesDragon 3 months ago
why cant the russians make an eye pleasing mig
jnevins1234 4 months ago
@jnevins1234 Russians dont care about looks. They prefer to make brutally simple weapon platforms (ex AK-47). Looks dont win wars, the men, the weapons, the tactics, and the choices made combined together is what wins a war.
dogfight001 4 months ago 3
@dogfight001 I think the MiG-15 is a more beautiful aircraft then the Sabre
f4ubricks 3 weeks ago
@f4ubricks To me the MiG-15 looks like a tractor
dogfight001 3 weeks ago
@dogfight001 The hell they don't. They make their choppers and tanks these days to be ugly as hell, which gives them a very menacing, and mean beauty to them.
Also, take a look at the Su-27 Flanker or S-47 Berkut, you can't honestly tell me they didn't put some artistry into the design of either of those, they are both gorgeous and deadly looking.
Ariana321 6 days ago
They Should Make a Episode Of F4U Corsairs Vs Ki-43 Oscars,A6M2 Zeros,And Ki-84 Franks
ViperGhost68 4 months ago
Great piece ove history 8)
AndreHuguesSolide 6 months ago
they should do an episode in the point of view of a Mig pilot...
They did a Luffwaffe episode so maybe it would be nice if they find a Viet airman or a russian black op pilots that fought in the korean or vietnam war..
magicstorm1 7 months ago 2
Comment removed
INDEFICIENTER2112 6 months ago
@magicstorm1 They should definitely do that.
Soviet fighter ace Yevgeny Pepelyaev is still alive and i bet he has some stories to tell
INDEFICIENTER2112 6 months ago 6
@INDEFICIENTER2112 Yeah and he is most likely more humble and less egotistical anout it all. Hopefully he's honest though.
TheGroundedAviator 1 month ago
i love the Sabres they look dashing
JEREX101 8 months ago
He led up like x-mas tree... Incendiary ammo hooh!
strikezero01 8 months ago
@strikezero01 i think he said "lit up like christmas tree"
JEREX101 8 months ago
@JEREX101 oops I think there's still have oatmeal left in my ears (if why I lost my head set) thought it was LED (Light-emitting diode) because you know... incendiary,x-mas light made up of LED = x-mas tree.
strikezero01 8 months ago
rateing of game 10 out of 10
buster16ful 8 months ago
I wish this show was on more often it's so EPIC
bubba485 8 months ago
on annd on ann on you two faggots annnnnnnnnnnnnd onnnnnnnnnnnn andddddddd onnnnnn
jkl812009 9 months ago
on annd on ann on you two faggots annnnnnnnnnnnnd onnnnnnnnnnnn andddddddd onnnnnn
jkl812009 9 months ago
on annd on ann on you two faggots
jkl812009 9 months ago
i love the aircraft and tactics not lil guys whove read what they possibly coulda been lol
jkl812009 9 months ago
wow awesome the mig-15 is awesome
wab1201 9 months ago
i got raped in mig alley
martinrking 9 months ago
@martinrking wat u mean???
JEREX101 8 months ago
@JEREX101 i'm sorry you had to read that, I'll try to abstain from corrupting your young mind any further with tales of what i was forced to do in the hostile skies of mig alley (where i got raped)
martinrking 8 months ago
@martinrking lol heheheheh
JEREX101 8 months ago
MIG-15 looks weird...But cool
jakicevic 9 months ago
@jakicevic ya looks way cooler than US jets imo
IcyScythe 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think that MiG-15s would have had better kill ratio if they used their advantages by climbing to high altitude once they take off and attacking only when their in advantage since the sabers can't climb to the MiG-15's altitude.
om996jo 1 year ago
I think that MiG-15s would have had better kill ratio if they used their advantages by climbing to high altitude once they take off and attacking only when their in advantage since the sabers can't climb to the MiG-15's altitude.
om996jo 1 year ago
@om996jo the fact of the matter was that the f 86 was an air superioty fighter while the mig was an interceptor designed to shoot down high level bombers not dogfight with better trained american pilots. plus the mig was an unstable gun platform
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 still they shot down 78 sabers most of those were shot by Russians while the sabers shot down 700 Migs mostly Chinese.
om996jo 1 year ago
@om996jo and those same russians claim over 650 f 86 sabres which is complete bullshit 10:1 kill ratio for a reason. this is alos the last time the russians build anything close to being as good as american
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Explain the 70-90 American aircraft downed in Vietnam mostly by MiG-17s and the the fact that the highest scoring ace was a Vietnamese who scored 9 kills, all American, and the fact that most MiG-21 kills were made by AA-2 Atoll (K-13).
om996jo 1 year ago
@om996jo different tactics in vietnam the usaf was not prepared. the f4 didn't even have a gun and missles were unrealiable
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 you forget that the Vietnamese had excellent ground control and ambush tactics, plus their fighters where more maneuverable than the US F4 even after the introduction of the gun equipped F4E Vietnamese pilots like Mig-17 pilot nguyen van soat another one of Vietnam's top aces , still managed to get kills on a couple of phantoms
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 this has nothing to do with mig 17s vs f4 phantoms. this is about the f86 vs mig 15, the mig 17 in vietnam was out of date but good tactics and the fact that the americans were to afraid to bomb north vietnam airfields helped. i give you a good example of another out of date aircraft that got atlot of kills against better planes, the f2a buffalo had a 32:1 kill ratio in the winter war, its all about tactics and pilots not nessecarliy machines.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 i meant the brief Vietnam argument, i agree about man over machine , the MiG-15 was a very good air craft , it had better rate of climb and was more nimble than he F-86 and it had more powerful 37mm cannon compared to the 86's 50 cal machine guns, may i remind you that the Russian aces in the war did not get shot down the Americans only really got kills against the lesser trained Chinese and north Koreans, over 1000 allied air craft were brought down by MiGs and triple A in Korea
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 where are you getting your facts the allies did not lose 1000 planes in korea, most american pilots will telll u that they would never touch the mig 15, chuck yeager said it was an avergae plane. the 37 mm cannon was useless agianst the faster more nimble f 86. the f 86 was also a, donot believ russian and korean reports they claim over 600 sabres while their were hardly 500 sabres ever in korea the sabre also had a better gun sight and was a better gun platform, 10:1 kill ratio.
packr72 1 year ago
Comment removed
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@packr72 the kill loss ratio, 10 to 1 is exaggerated, it was more like 3 to 1 , and it was due to the poor training of the Korean and Chinese pilots compared to the American pilots, but Russian pilots were highly trained and had experience from world war 2 they were not easy opponents , it wasn't so much technology but pilot ability, the MiG-15bis and the F-86F were in many ways equally matched, the F-86 was not as superior as you might think
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 i was wrong the offical was actually 14:1, if you gave me russian pilots from ww2 vs american pilots from ww2 ill take the americans not because im american, simply cause of what the best german pilots think of russian pilots. another big advantage the f86 had was it's diving speed wgich could excede mach 1 something that the mig couldn't do
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 i am sorry but it wasn't 14 to 1, i don't know where you got that number, diving speed doesn't really matter much in dog-fighting unless of course the pilot is trying to escape from the fight using a high speed dive, i think you are being extremely biased here and not giving credit to the also very skilled Russian pilots of the war , if the Americans and their sabres had been as superior as you seem to think then they would have had total air superiority which they did not
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 the migs only operated in mig alley that covered only northern north korea. the reasons the migs kept flying was because truman didn't have the balls to send the bombers into china and crush the korean airforce on the ground. according to the us records the sabres enjoyed a 14:1 kill ratio. if you are going by communist recorde good luck.
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 During its long service life, the F-86 formed a part of the air forces of 24 different countries. e in The Sabre saw extensive service with the USAF during the Korean war, in which it achieved an outstanding exchange ratio of nearly 14 to I in combat with the Soviet-built MiG-15.
.
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 google search f86 kill ratio and check out global security website, they won't let me post the link
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 i was wrong, after chuck yeager test piloted the mig and had a mock dogfight once in an f 86 and once in the mig, he won both times and the said it's not the machines it's the man, however he also said he would rather have a sabre. remeber though the mig is strictly an interceptor, it cant escort bombers over enemy territory like the f 86, thus the f86 is an airsuperiority fighter and those are the planes that win wars not interceptors.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 your wrong on that too , the MiG-15 is classified as a jet fighter, not an interceptor, even though it can perform interception roles quite well, the only mig to be a dedicated interceptor was the MiG-25 fox-bat, anyways of course yeager would say that he would naturally prefer the plane made in his USA , and it has served in 24 of US allied air forces, just like the F-16 serves in almost all allied air forces now,
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 the mig 21 was originally built as an interceptor, the early migs were designed to intercept and destroy b 29 bombers. i don't know the real kill ratio wether it is 3:1 4:1 7:1 or 14;1 all i know is that sabre always came out on top and the sabre served long than the mig, and saying that dive speed doesn't matter is ridicoulos . one last point the sabre was beautiful aircraft, the mig like most things russians is crude. it will do the job and in some cases well but it aint pretty.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 yeah the MiG-21 was originally an interceptor but later versions were considered second generation fighter planes, the kill ratio was 3 or 4 to 1 but it wasn't because of technological superiority but superior training over korean and chinese pilots, that also large amount of kills on the Koreans side was due to highly trained Russian pilots, i meant dive speed don't matter much in a turning dogfight, and as for looks that is opinion based, i personally think MiGs are beautiful
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 migs are flying tractors, the f86 was also used by better airforces than the mig. the canadians, australians, the germans, japanese, turkey, and yugoslavia a communist country, all used sabres and sabres stayed on active duty in portugal until the 1980s long than the mig 15 and 17, plus if the war had continued the f86h would have been involved and it had 4 20 mm cannons and 2 30mm cannons, which out classes the mig 3 cannons.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 not of you compare it to the MiG-17 which had an improved 37mm and 23mm cannons on board, it was also of higher performance, plus MiG-17s are legendary for scoring kills on much more advanced F4 phantoms in Vietnam, and as far as the NATO reporting name of the MiG-15 fagot doesn't mean homosexual , but the bundling together of sticks or other things anyways i refuse to call the MiG-15 by what NATO named it cause they make the gayest names ever , except for fox-bat , that one was cool
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 yet with bad tactics, no gun and faulty missles the airforce achieved a 2.5:1 kill ratio( that's not good) but the navy achieved a 12:1 kill ratio with the f4. ever hear of the engagement when 2 ai skyraiders shot down 2 migs so yes a more advanced plane can be shot down by an inferoior plane, i'll take 6 cannons over 3 when was useless against(37mm) against fighters.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 the sky raider kill was nothing but luck, the MiG pilot got cocky and made a stupid decision, as for the F4 later versions such as the F-4E had internally mounted cannons, the missiles were faulty but most of the time would hit their target, , and still F4Es some of them were shot down by MiG-17 , and by K-13 missiles fired from MiG-21PFM, in ambush attacks, anyways , the MiGs were more nimble and hard to see, plus they couldn't be detected below 300 feet by F4 radar,
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 you mean a 20 mm vulcan gun, the missles where 50-50 besides the migs wouldn't directly challenge the f4s they went up to shoot down bombers often nva pilots would try and run from the americans but it wouldn't work. the usaf was to far ahead at the begining of the war to tackle an outdated airforce like the vietnamese. the mig 21 was very manorable but it's delta wing was not strong enough to survive many high g turns
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 wow you really seem like you have no idea what you are talking about, Vietnamese guerrilla tactics worked well, they would have good ground control which placed the fighters in the right positions usually MiG-17's attacked from the front while MiG-21 took the rear and make quick escape btw the MiG-21 F-13 which were used in Vietnam could pull about 8 g's in a turn , earlier versions had a 3 g limit at high speed and high altitude , but at lower speed it could outmaneuver the phantom
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 if their tactics worked well why did america obtain complete air superiority over north vietnam, they could bomb them whenever they wanted to, and if the americans never had air superiority then operations like linebacker 1 and 2 would have never brought the vietnamese to the peace table. and i dont think their is any denying now who has the greatest fighter plane ever f 22 the russians, brits, french, germans, chinese, have nothing that is even close
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 man are you ignoring that over 1000 us air craft were shot down due to SAM fire and MiG's and you lost over 58,000 troops. yes the Vietnamese lost almost 1 million but they are Asians, you kill 1000 there will be 2000 more ready to fight don't mean to be racist but its true, also they are braver because they go into battle despite the odds being heavily against them , i am sorry to say but you lost this one, the Vietnamese fought valiantly
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 that's what im saying, the only way to win the vietnam war was a massive invasion to the north and basically cut off the head and hope we can capture ho chi minh. we did lose alot of planes in vietnam but most were from aa and sam defenses.
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 that's what im saying, the only way to beat the vietnamese is to cut off the head( Ho Chi Minh), but operation linebacker did force the vietnamese to the table, that and our psycho pres. nixon was suggesting using tactical nuclear weapons against the north.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Also i never said Vietnamese guerrilla tactics worked well to gain air superiority , that wasn't their goal , it worked well to prevent many many bombings by causing the F-105 thuds to jettison their payload before reaching their objective, usually by destroying a couple thuds and then bugging out , in these engagements is where F4's were lost , and like it or not dog-fighting tactics are important when fighting equally matched opponents which the USAF hasn't faced since Korea
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@packr72 those air forces are all US allies even Yugoslavia at the time, and its the same as how now virtually all US allied air forces use the F-16, and how they will be receiving the F-35, it doesn't necessarily mean it was so much better it was just the best export for allied countries to buy at the time, and as far as tractors are concerned the MiG-15 and F-86 look very similar, their nose and tail sections are virtually the same, even the wings.
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 you claimed that the kill ratio's were faulty because the koreans wud claim they found f 86s shot down when the airforce wouldn't. that doesnt mean they were downed by migs, plus many pilots who ran out of fuel over north korea if they didn't make it to the coast, command would order any plane in the area to destroy the crash landed sabre.
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 and with vietnam the f4 was designed to shoot down planes beyond visible sight, NOT DOGFIGHT, it didn't even have a gun but it was an extremely fast plane that could turn on the afterburners and leave the migs in the dust, that includes the 17,19,21, most aircraft losses in vietnam were from AA fire and SAMS , not migs, hanoi had more aa guns around the city than berlin, vietnam was a failure on behalf of the us government, not are armed forces, our politicans had no BALLS
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Of course taking the easy way out and bombing there air fields would have been better, but the argument here is kill ratios, and you seem to think in a very biased way also if the so much faster F-4s could escape MiGs so easily , why were so many downed by small arc Atoll missiles and in a couple cases 23mm cannon fire from MiG-21 . and more cannon losses to MiG-17? if the USAF were doing so well explain how the Vietnamese managed to do that? plus vietnam had more aces than USA
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 lets not forget who your talking about in the vietnamese, the same people that turned away the mongols, helped throw the japanese out in ww2, their the french out in 1954, and out lasted the greatest superpower on the planet, i kinda think vietnam is the america of the east similar to the way we gained independence from the greatest superpower of the day.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 too be fair though , most of the Vietnamese kills were of vulnerable F-105 "thuds" the vietnamese usually didn't risk dogfighting , they're primary role was to get the US strike bombers to jettison their payload before reaching the objective and were fairly successful at doing so i have a link but the comment wont allow me to paste it in , there did well despite the odds being against them
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 if the us government had the kahones the vietnamese airfields would have been bombed into submission but we were to afraid the russian advisors would get killed, if the vietnamese still want to dogfight thats their beef, cause dogfighting unfortunatly for people like us has the way of the piston engine in fighter planes, the navy still teaches dogfighting but it is out of date, which kinda sucks being firing a missles take less skill than trying to aim a gun.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 are you a complete fool? killing Soviet and Chinese advisers could have led to a full scale nuclear war where millions would have died , it was wise for the government to not wanna risk that, do you think the Soviet Union and China would have been just an easy victory for the US i think not , you are dealing with 2 superpowers there which in combination i am sorry to tell you is much more powerful than the US and so is the European Union , the Ef2000 is also just as good as f22
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 no it wouldnt the chinese didn't back the nortth koreans and the russians didn't back the chinese, no one wanted a nuclear war with the united states cause at that time we had enough firepower to end the world several more times than the russians, plus the end of the cold war showed that russian nuclear capacity was no where near as good as america, even the soviets said that.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 the Chinese didn't back the north Koreans , then explain to me why Chinese forces converged on allied forces and drove them near defeat in the Korean war? i think you have no idea what you are talking about, the Soviet Union. China and North Korea were allies and all communist , they supported each other in the Korean war, the Soviet union however, had a more discreet presence in the war and the Chinese were open supporters and sent their troops into battle
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 you obviosly love communism, so i guess you like no freedom of speech and don't have to worry about being sent to a gulag, or suppose you dont like money cause no one in a communist country is rich, except the government officials. or i guess you like kim jong il starving 600,000 of his own people, or josef stalin killing millions in great purges, around 20 million of his own people, not even hitler killed that many of his own people, ps american icbms were better.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 what makes you think i love communism? just because i like MiG s and Russian air craft better than US jets? , its a fact that the Soviet union ,China north Korea and north Vietnam were communist doesn't mean i support communism , the argument was kill ratios and jets, i never once said i support communism, or people like Kim Jong because i don't , i am more of a socialist , i believe in power to the people and progress, whats your problem?
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 russia was never as strong as the us, they even admit it, the cold war was a battle between 2 bullies and the stronger bullier scared the living shit out of the other bully, their is also no evidence to suggest that china joins the ussr in ww3, their is no loyalty between other communist countries, russia had never had the strength to fight us in an open war, thats why we won they couldn't keep up. if ww3 ever happened millons if not billons die, but the west remains.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Yes they were , there was a time when the Soviet Union was producing twice as much armor and weapons than the united states and had some of the fastest and most advanced long range strike bombers at the time , not to mention ICBMs , i never said china and Russia would join forces, but if both are provoked to war against the US for the death of their advisers to Vietnam, they would most likely have joined forces, i mean they were allied just a decade earlier in Korea and still are ,
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 yeah cause the soviets had a stealth bomber, oh yeah they didn't, agood percentage of that armour went to countries that bought it. russians were in korea for one reason, to gauge american fighting strenght and our weapons. one of the reason why russia was bankrupt was because of over production of material, dude the russians themselves have said they would have never won a nuclear war with the united states i still dont see why you support the communists, their evil governments
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Russia didn't go bankrupt until the fall of the soviet union you tool, before that the military at least had a lot of money enough to work on advanced projects, when did is say they had a stealth bomber? they had damn good bombers like the Tupolev Tu-160 which as probably the best long range jet bomber at the time i never once mentioned stealth, that technology still hadn't been developed by either side
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 im done arguing i have better things to do, i like the f 86, you like the mig 15 end it at that.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 lol, sore loser i see , haha that's cool , i have better things to do too
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 no we agree to disagree
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 sure
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@packr72 Whatever
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@packr72 I like US of A more than commuism RUSSIAN!
PlushGallade 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 yeah cause the soviets had a stealth bomber, oh yeah they didn't, agood percentage of that armour was shit anyways. russians were in korea for one reason, to gauge american fighting strenght and our weapons. one of the reason why russia was bankrupt was because of over production of material, dude the russians themselves have said they would have never won a nuclear war with the united states i still dont see why you support the communists, their evil governments
packr72 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 this aint even an arguement the f22 raptor is the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world nothing comes close, you cant kill something you cant see.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 Thats where you are wrong again, the F-22 can be detected on certain low band radar frequencies or with IRST , in mock dogfights with RAF Ef-2000 the F-22 was detected and locked on to from at least 80 miles according to the articles i have read , its not the aviation equivalant of god , no doubt its one of the best fighters ever, but not only Americans have made good technology, jets like the PAK FA and Euro-fighter are also top quality fighter air craft
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@packr72 also for the record just because someone doesn't love the United States doesn't make them automatically evil or anti-freedom, i am entitled to my opinion and i have no support at all for the US government especially with so many innocent people US military bombs and soldiers have killed in Iraq and the oil hungry politicians and presidents that spear headed these atrocities, the US isn't some holy perfect nation, corruption exists in every level of Government
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
@Elfulcrum777 how could like a plane named the fagot.
packr72 1 year ago
@packr72 there are plenty of articles and evidence that that 14 to 1 kill ratio is highly exaggerated but by how bias you are, you would probably just dismiss it all as communist propaganda, even though on multiple cases when the US denied they lost an air craft, north Koreans would find the wreckage of the downed us air craft that the US denied had been lost , i personally think the MiG-15 is one of the best early fighters it has proven itself to be tough , reliable and of high performance.
Elfulcrum777 1 year ago
Hey I want to fly here on my Flight Simulator X. What are the coordinates to the nearest airport to Mig Alley?
theeking247 1 year ago
@Shashank8685 sure it's wikipedia organization :)
om996jo 1 year ago
the F-86 is amazing...the pakistani air force used them with great success.
even shooting down mig-21s with them !!!!!lol
om996jo 1 year ago
@om996jo LOL X 2 ......... the only wars that pakis fought were against India and they got ass raped by the Indian Air force so the sabres couldn't have been that awesome !! i mean c'mon take a look at these videos ........ the sabres turn around and shoot at the migs but the migs never turned around to take another shot at the sabres. its as if the mig pilots never had any training. this is bullshit.
Shashank8685 1 year ago
@Shashank8685
yeah but you have to admit they had more trained pilot after 1965 war India claimed 17 aerial victories while Pakistan claimed more than 30 aerial victories.
about "and they got ass raped by the Indian Air force" you have to admit that the 1947 war and the 1965 war were, mostly, a tie.
most of Chinese and Korean pilots were poorly trained but some of these migs were flown by Russians who scored most of the 78 sabres shot during the war !!! :)
om996jo 1 year ago
@om996jo statistically, yes PAF did claim a lot of indian planes but those were on the ground. You may have missed the indian air raid kills. there are 20 listed dogfight kills scored by IAF and admitted by PAF.
But given the kind of animosity these countries have towards each other this data could be inaccurate. However, there's no data that says PAF had scored more kills if u leave out the bomb runs and count the dogfights only. BUT I'd like to know ur source of information.
Shashank8685 1 year ago
Ugh..... All Technology stolen or Taken by force by americans and soviets, from Germans after WW2..... from the Jets, Supersonic Rockets...... to submachine guns & Assault rifles. Nobody gives the Germans enough credit for their contributions.... So sad.....
23dexter89 1 year ago
@23dexter89 I wonder if that may be due to the fact that their "contributions" were intended to render the world helpless under the Nazi regime...
Maraudershark1 1 year ago
@Maraudershark1 no....im agree with dexter...of course were all happy the the 3rd reich dosn´t exist anymore.... but most of the weapons and technologie used back in the korean war for example was simply just stolen... there´s also a funny line in some move (i dont remember the name) it say "our germans are better than their germans..." kinda funny XD
FireXtheRipper 1 year ago
@FireXtheRipper true but the US and USSR but these technologies in good use so the Germans' work wasn't done to nothing.
om996jo 1 year ago
LOL
den19902 1 year ago
Dogfight is the BEST Air Force Documentary and BEST Flight Simulator off all time !!! better then even Flight Sim Game !!!
It cover all Angles of Camera .............. ^^ ^^ ^^
Romus011 1 year ago
us airforce is a truly a history, ill give my respect to them, specially those died in a combat. From WW1 to vietnam conflict.
chikie105 1 year ago
look that 37mm. what the hell
kseyo 1 year ago
LOL the poles still celbrate their "victory" over the mongols......now i understand pollock jokes!!!
thgr8khan 1 year ago
Funny how US pilots describe war as it is a game, I didn't know that USA wants to make their citizens believe that killing people is fun during war times. In the Warsaw pact soldiers took it a lot more seriously, even veterans from the wars described them as the most horrific thing you can see with your eyes and lived with the guilt of taking human lives, no matter if it was civilians or enemies. It's not about training, it's about ethics and I seriously doubt that US media wants to promote such
zaho87 1 year ago
@zaho87. Tragic ain't it? A frend of who was in the military said US servicemen are totally broken down and rebuilt like that to see others as a statistic. They can also be a bit naive about the world. They are often come poor backgrounds with little education and not much chance to improve. Plus Amercain's can be VERY patriotic, I have nouthin wrong with haveing feelings for you country but there is a point where it becomes the virtue of the vicious.
TheGroundedAviator 1 year ago
@TheGroundedAviator I agree, the perception changes gradually having the people think that they alone are humans, and the rest are something else.
Strahoz 1 year ago
@Strahoz. Ithought you were going to say something nasty to me! The US military are marsters at it, they kinda have too as most of there wars these days are unjuast (in a sense they all are in the end, no matter the reason even it's just) or being throwen into bad situations from bad leadership or politics that a private in other countrys would be able to assess.
TheGroundedAviator 1 year ago
@TheGroundedAviator all armies and military forces around the world do this. It's war, you can't show any weakness. It's not just the US. And most people in the AirForce are actually decently educated, so you're wrong there. Most Americans in the Armed Forces are middle class or lower class - not just lower class and poor backgrounds.
albertsamerica 1 year ago
@albertsamerica It's mostley secondhand info from guys who had done joint work with the US military (Army mostly, being a pilot I know what you need for the Air Force) and found them hard to work with. And in war you can't show weakness but you can learn to controll it insteed of just shutting it out. And I don't wan't you to think I hate Americans or anything it's quite the opposite.
TheGroundedAviator 1 year ago
@zaho87 US pilots don't want to think about killing a person, so to them it helps them to think about the dogfight as more of a machine on machine battle. If you ask any US pilot who's seen someone die in an aircraft they shot down, up close and personal, they will tell you it isn't pretty. And i've heard Russian veterans or WW2 talk the same way - it's a military thing. Saying its just Americans is foolish, because there's a good number of US soldiers which don't view war as a game.
albertsamerica 1 year ago
I would have liked them to profile some of the other countries pilots too but you know, they have a market to appeal to and you have to get that market in order to continue the show. If it had stayed on the air they may have done this. I haven't seen any other network put anything different forward. So unless you can convince them to your belly aching about the shows content just makes you sound whiney.
MIT1369 1 year ago
Нет, я понимаю, что и МИГов сбивали. Но не постоянно же! А тут только Сейбры Мигов пачками лупят, как будто только так и было.
Гавно фильм. Сделали красиво, а смотреть не хочется. Лажа. Не правда ничуть.
Thecubel21 1 year ago
is that a 37mm shell or a bottle of coke?
kseyo 1 year ago
I personally like the F-86d Sabre Dog.
MonkeyPieshaha 1 year ago
The 37 mm had terrible ballistics.
TuAFFalcon 1 year ago
Nicely done thank you mate.
TuAFFalcon 2 years ago 3
how do you download these videos
2254859236 2 years ago
cool!
techapichetvanichk 2 years ago
Nikolai Vasilievich Sutyagin 21 kills korean var he shot down 3 f-86 one day
kawazake 2 years ago
Somebody put up the Mig killers episode please.
whitesox889 2 years ago 2
anybody know where i can find the episode "jet vs. jet"?
stjohn628 2 years ago
great vids thanx for uploading ^^
weathermaster 2 years ago
The Poles are a great people...highly respected in this world...they've proven their mettle... why do you think they"re being ignored?
kvhpkh 2 years ago
the sabre is pritty small
aztec1337 2 years ago
I really like the F86 Sabre...But i think the best is the F86F...Whit 6 Mg...
viame12 2 years ago
I think the 'E' version was better
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
Actually, the best Sabre was the Canadair Sabre Mk6 with the Canadian made Orenda 14 engine @ 7275lbs thrust
ICEMAN440X 1 year ago
Both the Sabre and MiG 15 were great, and about equally matched.
calimar28 2 years ago
the mig is a piece of shit
flaminturds323 2 years ago
the american saber was a responce to the mig couse the Mig-15 was better than anything in the american arsinal.
KrazzyKan 2 years ago
And thanks to the Poles we were able to evaluate the Mig 15. It's a shame how the rest of the world uses Poles. They found the Bismarck, Fought for Britain, Gave us the Mig, were the first to fight communism, had the first non-Roman Pope in 400 years, but their achievements are ignored.
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
That would be, fought with Britain...
beeceesp 2 years ago
@Historystartsnow God Bless the Poles. Nothing but respect for them. Not many have heard that the Poles inflicted more casualties on the Germans During the invasion of Poland than the British and French did to them during the battle for France.
MIT1369 1 year ago
@MIT1369 yeah, not to mention they made a HUGE contribution to the RAF, delivered the V1 to the allies, located the Bismarck, the list goes on and on... But in the end, it's the efforts of all those men that won the war.
Historystartsnow 1 year ago 3
@Historystartsnow rommel takes egypt, suez canal, and the middle east oil fields if the brits donot recieve huge numbers of tanks including the m3 lee and shermans plus the raf operated many p40 warhawks and early p51
packr72 1 year ago
@MIT1369 this post has nothing to do with this dacumantary...
Yevv 1 year ago
@Yevv Ich sprach mit einem anderem zu der Zeit.
*note to assist*
It is spelled in English;
"documentary"
MIT1369 1 year ago
@MIT1369 Danke für die Korrektur
Yevv 1 year ago
@MIT1369 they helped out so much but the birts Thanks to them where giving them to Stalin
Mattebubben 1 year ago
a flying piece of shit
Mizzenmast54 2 years ago
Well, if you watch a Russian movie you'll see how soviet aces kicked their enemies...Nobody would tell that the enemy is better...I like the Mig15...This aircraft made many problems to the new Russian pilots who learnt how to use the new Mig19s and Mig21s...they say that sometimes the only thing to escape the 15 is to switch to afterburner and run...
mouzata 2 years ago
I was an enlisted man in the 335th FIS in 1953. Is Ralph Parr still with us? Most of the Jet Aces of Korea are gone.
whitt702 2 years ago
I checked it and as far as I can tell he's alive and kicking
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
This isn't very factual, since the mig 15s pretty much kicked the Americans' asses for 3 years starting in 1950, a crucial point which isn't addressed at all in this documentary, such propaganda...
Vaioleto 2 years ago
Yeah, many shows are biased. I wouldn't call it propaganda though. Maybe back then
Historystartsnow 2 years ago
No... The F-86 had a 8-1 kill ratio against the mig-15.
whitesox889 2 years ago
@whitesox889 that was propaganda. the kill ration was more like 1.5-2. The two planes were actually pretty evenly matched, but not all MiG-15s were piloted by well trained Russians, so the kill ratio is in our favor.
ummonk 2 years ago
No it wasn't. Most Mig-15 were flown by quickly trained chinese or north koreans. The kill ration for the russian pilots was 2-1 in their favor, but overall the F-86 had a 8 to 1 kill ratio. This stat is pretty well know...
whitesox889 2 years ago
ur mind set isnt correct the 8-1 kill ratio is right ive done my research and yes ive read the confirmed kills from both sides and found that many of these pilots on both sides cant back up their stories
P51F86F4F15F22 2 years ago
i7270 2 years ago
i7270 2 years ago
later models of the sabre can out maneuvor the migs but the migs always could out climb the sabres
P51F86F4F15F22 2 years ago