Abortion Clinic 911 Calls - Patte Smith (1 of 5)

[popazz1]

When a woman,irrespective or her age,sees abortion as just another form of contraception,then shame on her! I am NOT anti-abortion,but somewhere along the line,women need to take responsibility,& if that means not letting your b/f near you unless he agrees to use a condom,then so be it! Yes,of course there are always going to be situations where abortion is appropriate,that's a given.But surely,taking responsibility over your own womb is your primary concern when having sex.

[tjttzcspplt]

As I said to a person below. Abortion is a collective mental illnes on the part of the citizens.

[Earthlinked]

NO - that is not how a republic works - and America IS a republic - NOT a democracy - we vote for represetitives to vote for us in Washington - and those represetitives have decided that abortions ARE legal - and must also be paid for by government funds!!!! I canot decide to pay $20 billion for a nuclear sub - and not pay $2 billion per stealth airplane - it does not work like that!! And you think there is ONE senator or congressman - WITHOUT - an offshore numbered account!!!! NEVER!!!

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked There is something seriously dysfunctional and troublesome about a society that does not protect its own citizens from annihilaiton. The spirit of it is evil, and the society is committing suicide. It is a collective mental illness.

[Earthlinked]

@tjttzcspplt And I would say the EXACT same thing of a society that FORCES women to have children that they do not want - children from incest and rape - BUT - since they are pregnant - they MUST have the child. To me this is a torture that will last a lilfetime and ruin several lives - and the very definition of mental illness!!!!!

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked The woman knows she has the power to confect a new life when she lays down with a man.  If you think family is torture, then, there is something seriously wrong with you. A woman's children are her pride and joy, and in some cases, her only reason for living. Plus, who else is going to take care of you when you are old and "worthless"? The government? I wouldn't put it past you to think so. You need to reconsider your twisted POV.

[Earthlinked]

@tjttzcspplt So you are saying that EVERY SINGLE time a woman has sex - she should expect to have a baby in 9 months? And she MUST define HER joy - based on her children - without children - she has no reason for living - so she was ONLY put here to be a baby factory? And she is never self reliant - she MUST have children to take care of her in her old age? And you think MY POV is twisted???? THAT is what is wrong with America today - too many people think as you do!!!!!!!

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked Yes, when a woman lays with a man, she is accepting this responsibility. And, yes, having a family is the most important and joyous thing a person can do, unless they choose not to for some reason. That is what intercourse is, contrary to the current pornified atmosphere we live in today. Yes, on your death bed you will wish you had children, or at least other family members. And, most people think like I do b/c that is the NORMAL attitude. You are the person with the prob.

[Earthlinked]

@tjttzcspplt SO sex should be for procreation - and nothing else? It is NOT making love to you - it is making children??? IF you think this is a normal attitude - then good for me!!!! Sex is a physical showing of the love two people have for each other - and every time you have sex - you SHOULD NOT expect a child 9 months later!! I assume that you never take birth control pills - or force your lover to wear a condom - that would be wrong in your eyes?!?!??

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked Intercourse is SUPPOSED to be an act of love b/w two people who are committed to each other in such a way that it is a GOOD thing if a child ends up being confected. That's the idea. We all know what the sit. is when a girl seeks out an abortion. She is either coerced into it by the father or family member, or, she uses it for birth control There is no redeeming reason to deny a munchkin a chance to make it on this cruddy planet. Anything but the type of relationship...

[Earthlinked]

@tjttzcspplt 1) Humans are NOT confected - candy is confected!! 2) You ASSUME that all abortions are because the woman is stupid. What if she is 16 - realizes that she is not ready for a child - should she AND THE CHILD be punnished for life for a mistake? And using abortion as birth control is 100% FALSE - it is just NOT done - it is a scare tactic!! But I see your point - you think all women are STUPID - cannot make their own decisions and must be "coerced" - I simply disagree!

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked It very much is a confection. Look up the word in the dictionary. I never said abortions were sought because a woman is stupid. Those are your words, not mine. If she is 16, and she cannot handle having a child, she should not be messing around with boys. And, don't even try to lecture me about why a woman gets an abortion. You are out of your league there, pal. Women certainly are coerced. I am intimately aware of such facts. It SUCKS that girls are put in that position.

[Earthlinked]

@tjttzcspplt I looked it up and confect "to create something by combining different materials or items" - that is candy - sperm and eggs I do not see as "materials" - but I'm sure you would - as you have shown - you know everything!!! So I won't try - you already know that I am out of my league - so I will not waste my time - why should I - you already know it all!!!! Keep hitting your head against different brick walls - and expecting different results!! THAT is STUPIDITY!!!

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked Well, try spending more time in doing constructive things, and less time on yo tube.

[tjttzcspplt]

@Earthlinked ...I described above has NEGATIVE consequences for one or more of the parties. There is such a thing as responsibility to others. Now, you choose not to accept this, then be prepared for negative spiritual and/or physical, psychological, and sociological consequences for yourself and whoever else is affected by it. Are ou saying we are all better off since we began dissing marriage and family? I see nothing but hearache, depression and self-centeredness whereever I go.

[NishotheRunemage]

Fetuses, from conception to before birth, are NOT ALIVE. They have the POTENTIAL for life, but they aren't inherently alive. Biologically, an organism must be capable of self-sustained life, and a fetus would die if removed from the womb. QED. The doctor uses compassionate terms because this is a trying ordeal on those INVOLVED. You see, the only people who use terms like murder and baby-killer and use gory pics to try to get their way are YOU religious idiots for shock value. It's terrorism.

[tjttzcspplt]

@NishotheRunemage They are SUBSTANTIVELY a separate person. Their ACCIDENTS may change as they grow. It is an ordeal b/c deep down they both know they are doing wrong and murdering a fellow human being. I have news for you. You have a religion. Religion is paying homage to one's deity. You fit the description. Your deity is YOURSELF. At least admit you are a selfish piece of humanity. At least you could be respected for your honesty.

[stewysgirl79]

abortions are murder, that so call fetus has dna, human dna so therefore you killed a human, earthlink your saying that if you have an abortion your aborting a fetus not a human? well tell me this, if your having a baby and you deliver prematurely due to complications whether or not that baby lives, is that the same? because as far as i am concerned its the same situation except you didnt murder the child!!!!!

[TrinketStarFire]

Partial Birth abortion is monstrous and should be abolished. I have carried 3 pregnancies to term, and delivered healthy babies. I dont understand carrying a child to later term, feeling it kick inside you, seeing your belly grow, and then have that infant removed via this way. It is monstrous. I dont understand how women can do that . It would be the worst thing I could do in this life. The Worst.

[Earthlinked]

IT IS NOT A CHILD!!!!!!! It is a fetus - until it is born - THEN it is a baby. If it is aborted - it is a fetus that is aborted - NOT a baby and certainly not a child!!!!!

[TheGwynnSmith]

@Earthlinked So because it is covered by skin, tissue its not living? Because if its human, and living, its under 18 IT IS A CHILD!!! The fetus can feel, hell, the EMBRYO can feel at 6 weeks gestation. You are sick in the head if you think taking any life is ok.. Maybe, hopefully, you are misinformed.. What about premature born babies, they are born alive! So obviously they were alive inside. Please read up on the subject...

[Earthlinked]

@TheGwynnSmith Lets say it is 1930 - we are in Germany - you have a unique situation - you have the ability to shoot and kill Hitler - do you take the shot?

[TheGwynnSmith]

@Earthlinked I understand this is to see if I contradict myself. Absolutley I believe that it is perfectly justified to take down a murderer. BIG difference between ending the life of a sick murderer than ending the life of any innocent person. If you were told by a Dr. who performed abortions that the fetus/embryo could most definatly feel pain, would you think abortions were okay? Because I HAVE been told as much by a former abortionist

[Earthlinked]

@TheGwynnSmith YES - I think abortions are OK - but really - I have no opinion!!!!!!! I am a male - I will NEVER have one!!! It is between the female, the father, her doctor and her god!!! Men can only have an opinion - when they grow a vagina!!! I think if men are against abortions - then keep you pants up - do your part - but once a woman is pregnant - it is 100% between her, the father, her doctor, and her god!!!! And NOBODY ELSE!!!

[MrChristianBeliever]

@Earthlinked Re: it is 100% between her, the father, her doctor, and her god!!!! And NOBODY ELSE!!!

Not true! I am involved because of more than what I believe.

The government forces me to pay for it so the abortion now involves me and everyone else who helps to pay for it. Since you live in the USA, it also involves you.

[MaryAnneNagy]

Religion need not even be mentioned to outlaw abortion, any more than it has anything to do with murdering a 6 month old or arson. The law is impartial. Our country is built on the Declaration of Independence which states that there are certain inalienable rights .....the one is life. Pro-life will win this battle & if you can't stand religion in it --- so be it. No one in this country has the right to murder another human being, including Dr. Tiller an act condemned by all pro life groups.

[Magsiemagee]

Very true and very well delivered!!!

[Angrywritergrrrl]

Yes but take into account that not all women have your particular beliefs.

just because I may or may not agree with someone else's decisions that doesn't mean I should force my values upon them--that is taking a step back into the middle ages when people burned each other at the steak.

actually, people have already taken a step back when they killed that doctor at sunday worship.

if they wanted to hurt their 'prolife' cause, well they did a great job by making a martyr.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

if you force any set of morals on someone else that is a type of moral oppression and you are no better than those people who burned heretics at the stake in the middle ages.

I also noted that you referred to pedophiles in terms of 'IT'. I think that is VERY APPROPRIATE! :)

[thesixtiesguy]

You have been very well programmed by our educational system. What you may not have been taught is that America was and is founded on a very specific set of moral principles that guarantee the RIGHT TO LIFE , liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The 1973 Roe Vs. Wade decision was someone forcing THEIR morals on a nation who's moral principles had already been established. I should also mention that Norma McCorvey (who was Roe) has since became Pro Life and supports the overturn of RVW. GodBless

[xxcakeisaliexx]

i'm completely pro choice. honestly horse slaughter gets me more infuriated than this. women should have power over their bodies; not what religion tells them or the government tells them... it's a simple decision. babies are alive but they have no knowledge of what happens. i mean how many of us remember coming out of our mother's bodies or getting our diapers changed and all that. there are a lot of reasons to have an abortion but just wanting to get rid of it is not a reason.

[rustybeals]

@xxcakeisaliexx I don't remember what happens when I'm sleeping either, so should someone be able to kill me then? People don't recall what happens when they are under sedation for surgery, should it be ok to kill them then?

[Forlifeandeternity]

Because we are given understanding by God that murder is a violation of His will (His commandments are written on our heart & 'You shall not murder' is one of them) none of us has an excuse for slaying infants. Adoption makes abortion indefensible. Randy Alcorn wisely noted: "There is no such thing as an unwanted child, only unwanting adults."

[EvenWhenItsStormyOut]

Excellent video Patte. Thank you for sharing this.

Sincerely,

Anna Maria

[DragonFruitBabe]

If these women are 'confronted' with what they're doing and still want to proceed..who the hell are you to tell them that they cant?

[Forlifeandeternity]

We are not allowed to adjust truth according to accomodate our carnal desires. What God requires is the eternal rule of Law. God forbids that we use our body to commit sexual immorality. Sex outside of the covenant of marriage is called fornication. "No fornicator has any inheritance in the Kingdom of heaven." God says, "You shall not murder". No exceptions for our own sin. We can't change the perfect requirement of the Almighty God Who created us. He demands obedience & we are simply to obey.

[thegirl44]

It's a pity that in seeking out your vengeful God, you missed the entire message of his Son, Forlifeandeternity.

Judge not and practice forgiveness of your fellow man. This basic theology is why I identify myself as a Chistian.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

then u r pro choice. either u r 'pro-life' and u believe that abortion is murder. period.

or u r pro choice and u believe that there r necessary reasons for some people to get abortion.

if the woman's life is in danger as a result of pregnancy

if it is an underage girl & her body is not physically

capable of supporting a pregnancy

if it was a result of rape

and so on

fact is that so many people who claim to be pro life are in fact pro choice.

& u r right about the birth control part though.

[Forlifeandeternity]

It is vitally important that we care enough to reach out to abortion-bound mothers at the killing places themselves. We must be willing to love them as we ourselves would want to be loved. Sin is a serious slavemaster & these mothers need to hear the Law of God "You shall not murder" & they need to be directed to the Lord, who created & sustains both them & their little baby.

[thegirl44]

Out of curiousity, Forlifeandeternity, what are your views on birth control within the sanctity of marriage?

[thegirl44]

In a day and age where easy to use and widely available birth control is all around I cannot, personally, promote abortion as a form of birth control.

I'd be greatly interested, however, in the theological backgrounds of those seeking abortions as my experience in the medical field has revealed to me a staggering amount of unnecessary deaths from advanced STDs in patients where theological familial practice has shamed them into not seeking treatment until it was too late. Is there a parallel?

[cricketts7]

They actually just came out with a report on it. I think it is on MSN.  It showed that those who came from religious schools were more likely to get an abortion than those from public schools.

[thegirl44]

Thanks for that info, cricketts, I'll search that report out. I was raised in an agnostic liberal family because my dad came from a very staunch Roman Catholic one. It would turn your head around to see the difference in common sense, education and even level of fear between my brothers and I and our cousins. So many of the cousins had to get married because they were "Good Catholics" and couldn't have that baby, that they weren't allowed to take birth control to prevent, out of wedlock.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

I think that's very sad. I strongly advocate pro-choice because of the tyranny of many religions that impose their views on nonreligious people by trying to get 'anti-abortion' laws passed.

really I consider abortion a religious topic.

I myself was born and raised as a strict Mormon.

I guess you could call me a 'recovering Mormon' except that I don't even like the word anymore--too many bad memories.

No, I am an Atheist, and I let everyone know that fact!

[thegirl44]

I don't consider abortion to be a religious topic, myself, grrl. There are many agnostics and athiests that are pro life, due to personal experience or a non theologically based moral conviction, those who hold pro life views due to a spiritual conviction are just more vocal about it in their never ending quest to "save" people and make for great news.

The statistics show a pretty even representation of theists and athiest when it comes to pro life convictions.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

I consider it religious cause of my experiences growing up in my religion. & because all I see are the deeply religious people who are also deeply anti-choice.

but those r still my personal experiences and perspectives.

you have different perspective because of different life experiences and I do respect that.

whatever the matter is tho--I never want to be one of those people hating on another group of people for their views

I believe that it is possible 2 coexist even with such differences.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

I think that there is a definite parallel. I am an atheist, and My views on STDs and abortion r different from others posting on this page.

I think that someone who doesn't have a religion or a stringent moral view is more willing and open 2 STD treatments and they are less hateful toward pro-choice people.

I've noticed that religious people react in hate, shame 2 a lot of sexual topics.

[thegirl44]

You can find a parallel between any two subjects if you go looking for it, grrrl.

Granted, I agree with you that most theists hold pro life views due to stigma, dogma and fear many agnostics and atheist examine the situation and decide that they are pro life as well. They may not like the process of abortion or the fact that late term abortion is still practiced, they may have fertility issues of their own, or they may see education about sexual health options as a viable answer to abortion.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

u know this is true--u can find parallels to anything if u scew it right.

you can even warp statistics to mean what u want.

the best way really is the scientific method and be as logical about it as possible.

[jackass255]

Abortion saves these babies from having to live in such a horrible world..

They're much better off in heaven

Abortions send babies straight to heaven before the world corrupts them into going to hell.

Pro Choice !!!!!

[Gingagirl]

Agreed, but late abortions horrible.. But women obously know theyre pregnant by 15 weeks.. I'm 21 weeks pregnant with my first son, I'm 17. But keeping him was my choice. My baby's pro-choice. I have many friends that gone throug an abortion. Some regret it, some doesn't care. But it's their body, nobody should take that away from them.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

I wholeheartedly agree with u whether u choose abortion or you choose to allow the fetus to grow into a person is all your own choice. it should be ur choice to believe that abortion is or isn't a woman's right. whether u think it is murder or u don't should all be ur choice and no one elses!

that is what pro-choice means to me.

it is inclusive and accepting of anti-choice individuals as well because it is 'pro-choice' that means you choose your own beliefs & no one enforces theirs upon you!!

[Forlifeandeternity]

The Sixth commandment (You shall not murder) is a divine mandate for pro-actively intervening to prevent harm from coming to any innocent person. Obeying God's command includes the mandate to preserve the life of others: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The person who does not repel an injury from another when he can is as much to blame as the one who commits it.

[MickeyMousesFriend]

You seem like the kind of person who likes the smell of their own farts.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

until we can eliminate all those disparities then Im afraid that for many women an abortion is the proper option--and very necissary.

[awesome11991]

this is the way i see it. abortion shoudnt be known as abortion. it should be known as getting rid of unwanted babies. in the animal kingdom, mothers kill their unwanted babies all the time because they are too big of a burden, or other reasons. abortion should be used alot more than it is now and it shouldnt be frowned upon by religious or other people. dont forget that these people condone the use of contraceptives and lead to thousands of poor children to die each year

[USMonarchist2008]

So, because animals do it, we should?

[awesome11991]

if it helps us out, why not

[pixelpink]

Wow. I don't even need to comment on what is wrong with that statement. It speaks for itself...

[sueezee]

US:So, because animals do it, we should? Do you know why animals do it??? Find out & then ask that question

[EmilyGreene1984]

People were never meant to behave like animals.

[Forlifeandeternity]

Let's all look for opportunities to love the mothers who are tempted to murder their babies. How can we show true love? By telling the moms the truth & helping them obey the commandment of God. Let's be there for one another when her flesh, the world & the devil are all justifying the ruthless, violent attack against her innocent person. Learn about adoption. Help imperiled babies by walking with their lost mothers through the process of choosing a loving adoptive couple for their infants.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

what we need to do is eliminate the conditions that make abortion necessary: eliminate the abstinence talk--it doesn't work universally free and accessible birth control Free universal health care eliminate all: Rape Incest Coercion sexual ailments STDs discrimination/violence Sexual shame/Guilt from family and religion Poverty death from pregnancy (other unspecified inconvenience)

[thegirl44]

This is a great illustration of why I don't advocate abortion as a form of birth control, grrrl. Although I am a Christian, my dislike of abortion as birth control is based on my hatred of ignorance and has nothing to do with my spirituality.

Also, I'm not opposed to abortion in it's entirety. I don't expect a rape victim to have to give birth to a child conceived of a crime but I do think that the woman seeking an abortion in this situation must take responsibility to charge the perpetrator.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

U know I completely agree with a lot of ur points here.

I find that the most vocal pro-life people are religious in some way though. --or maybe its just me noticing it that way.

I am pro-choice 1. because I do not have a right to force my morals and values on other people who might not view things the way I do. 2. because 4 the health of many women this is necessary.

i don't believe in abortion as 'birth control' there are pills 4 that--which the well woman clinics also provide 2 low & no cost

[thegirl44]

And there in lay the conundrum, my intelligent friend. In our democracies partial access to certain goods and services is a sticky situation (Look at the brouhaha that happens every time the age of consent, driving, drinking gets readdressed).

Although many are in the same frame of mind as you and I when it comes to the subject at hand, who decides who can and cannot have an abortion? Who takes responsibility for the education to prevent it from being viewed as a source of birth control?

[thegirl44]

Women fought long and hard for the right to choose then other women took advantage of the right by not being responsible with their bodies.

We send out a message in double speak by calling instituations where abortion information is available, "Planned Parenthood."

We allow underaged women to enter into legal contacts with doctors who should have their parent's consent to treat them.

For some, it's easier to just remove the entire issue than to have to address the individual problems.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

and as far as who should take responsibility to prevent abortion being viewed as an easy escape? well ultimately it should be the woman herself.

teachers, parents and leaders need to make sure young people see all sides of the coin equally and fairly, without coercing them either way.

and then let the young person come to their own conclusion.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

this is always gonna be a conundrum.

who should have an abortion and who not? I think it all comes down to each person's individual crisis.

you can't really lump every person together because everyone goes through different struggles.

the best I can say is that the doctor treating the woman should use discernment. and the woman herself.

not everyone makes a good decision. sometimes parents can be abusive of their children.

u really must judge each circumstance differently and individually.

[BaronGrackle]

sandroeleven, if I understand your position, then I'm pretty sure the general Pro-Life arguments won't change your mind. With most folk, we could compare the similarities between an unborn and a newborn, and they'd be horrified at the idea of killing a baby outside the womb (and offended by the comparison). But it seems that you could understand the justification of killing a newborn, maybe for population control or some such (correct me if I'm mistaken). So, I'm not sure what to say.

[threeicys]

Isn't abortion practice against the Hippocratic oath?

[sandroeleven]

it is but docs dont take the oath anymore

[Forlifeandeternity]

God creates us in our mother's womb. He says: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you ..." Jeremiah 1:5 We are not mistakes or accidents & we are certainly not 'choices'. We are made in the image of God. No matter what the circumstance, we shall not murder. Our conscience tells us this is wrong. Adoption makes abortion indefensible.

We must do everything in our power to love mothers & their babies through pregnancy. We must go to them & help them obey God's commandment.

[sandroeleven]

god killed lots of children, so please dont mention the bible

[RebeccaFS1982]

My husband and I were looking at the ultra sound pictures of my 3 year old daughter the other day and I noticed on one of my 6 week gestational ultra sound pics that the technition typed baby next to one of the arrows. Yet the pro-aborts call he/she a blob of cells. It's amazing.

Wanted=baby, unwanted=blob of cells.

[sandroeleven]

You are tissue my friend. We are all creatures. Humans just happened to be able to wipe out other species, but not all of them. I'd like to see you get preg w 7 children and keep all of them no matter what.

[CaMediaRC]

...like my mother did with 9 children?

It seems like there is an extreme lack of manhood with guys who murder defenseless babies so they don't have to take any charge.

The CHOICE is not made at the abortion clinic, but 98% of the time it is made when the couple chose to have sex. Lack of self-control.

[sandroeleven]

Actually alot of women feel the same way. Sex is biological.Un almost uncontrollabel urge. Many women have contracep. that fails. I dont love abortion, but understand why women willget one.

[CaMediaRC]

Sex is a choice and is totally controllable. It is just the lack of self control that makes it seem so impossible.

Abstinence is possible if we can just grow up.

[sandroeleven]

totally controllable ? Really? You sound more like a youth pastor than an intelligent adult. How old are you? Why do we all haev to choose abstinence? Its will give you nothing but burning desires.

[CaMediaRC]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. When you can control your body, then your body cannot control you. It is not impossible. We choose abstinence so babies aren't murdered. Does that seem like a good reason?

[sandroeleven]

Some of us dont consider it murder. WE also do not want to abstain. If you choose to simply stare at your naked spouse rather than screw em, i pity you.

[CaMediaRC]

"I don't want to."

Okay, you can't be forced. I guess I should stop arguing with someone who is thrown around by his emotions. I would rather be freed from the constraints of what my body says it "needs".

[sandroeleven]

Again conservative lies. If all of us did what you say we would end up exploding and would haev more diseases than we already have. We would do every other thing necessary to get out our frustrations. You need to read a bio book. WE humans need water, air, emotional/sexual fulfillment. WE need to be whole people.

[CaMediaRC]

I'm sorry again, but you don't need sex to survive. The body produces sperm according to your sexual activity and almost never "needs" to be released. The proof is endless.

[sandroeleven]

SEx is not needed for survival i agree. But it IS part of a whole normal life. What are you so worked up about?

[CaMediaRC]

You use the word "normal" but that implies that countless sex is permissible and babies shouldn't get in the way and should be murdered. That doesn't seem very fair. Does that not seem grossly selfish?

[sandroeleven]

yes it is selfish, but in light of all the other things its small

[BaronGrackle]

"Some of us dont consider it murder." Could you define murder? I consider murder to be the killing of a distinct, living human being. Biology is really against you here. I can say that I don't consider oxygen to be a gas, but I'd be incorrect to do so.

[sandroeleven]

murder is the criminal taking of a life.

[BaronGrackle]

Oh, okay. Well, I'll have to give you that, for semantics. But I know you yourself could cite numerous genocides throughout history, which wouldn't count as murder because the killing was "lawful".

[sandroeleven]

yes and those genocides were wrong.I dont put the fetus on the same level as i would you. If i killed you i would ger 10 yrs (for instance0. if i killed a baby, the same.A fetus is inside and under the control of the mother, so we give her no jailtime...too hard.

[BaronGrackle]

"A fetus is inside and under the control of the mother, so we give her no jailtime...too hard." Would you give the same 10 years to a mother who, after giving birth, panicked and left her newborn at home, forgetting to feed the baby and starving it, not knowing what she was doing but just hoping it would go away? Maybe not 10 years. But maybe something. And you sound like you'd give some jail sentence to a man who beat the fetus to death inside a mother, against the mother's will.

[sandroeleven]

yes i would hold her resp. The prob w your view is that lots of women would be in jail. If not jail then what punishment, public service? Thats no punishment. Leave it to god.

[BaronGrackle]

Well, the problem with your feelings on adult murder is that lots of people would be in jail for that. We don't leave that to God.

[sandroeleven]

Well, the problem with your feelings on adult murder is that lots of people would be in jail for that."

Huh?

[BaronGrackle]

What I mean is that a lot fewer people would be in jail if it were legal to murder adults. A lot fewer people would be in jail if it were legal to steal things. A lot fewer people would be in jail if it were legal to neglect or abuse your born baby.

[RebeccaFS1982]

I'm sorry but I don't belong to the religion or theory of evolution so most of your sentences = nothing to me. I have 2 children with my husband. Both planned. It's called responsibility. When you're raised with morals and abortion isn't a choice for you, you tend to be more responsible. When you're taught the liberal way of life you have a bunch of unplanned pregnancies who end up dead babies. Maybe you are tissue, but I was greatly made.

[sandroeleven]

Planned? What about an unplanned preg? Waht would you do?

[Angrywritergrrrl]

not really. that goes along the same misguided thinking that someone who doesn't believe in a god will be more likely to go to prison for crimes committed.or live a sleazy lifestyle.

quite the contrary-mon-frairie. :)

I am an atheist. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't swear. & I abstain from sex.

since Ive seen so many religious people kill, hurt, discriminate, & force their 'morals' on nonreligious people in the name of values, I begin 2 think religious people r the immoral ones.

[RebeccaFS1982]

P.S. My mom had 7 kids and kept them all.

[sandroeleven]

Well i am taking about women who DONT want to have that may children. IF they keep them they end up not treating them right.

[Angrywritergrrrl]

My mom had nine children. her body broke down. she's depressed, and the younger ones have issues.

[dovecry2]

It has already been proven that once the spine is formed they baby can feel pain - the spine is formed in the first month - whether the baby is 1 month or 9 months the baby feels everything - The Supreme Court of the US WILL ANSWER TO GOD ONE DAY FOR LEGLIZING THE MURDER OF 50 MILLION(AND COUNTING) BABIES - By the way fetus means unborn baby in Latin

[sandroeleven]

wow, this is disgusting...i am pro choice but cannotd figure out how this 'dr' can do what he does unless he likes it.

[CaMediaRC]

You are Pro-choice, but you can't understand why doctors perform abortions? I don't understand...

The "choice" is murder and you can sugar coat it all you want, but the act remains the same.

[sandroeleven]

ca, i am talking about late term abortions.

[CaMediaRC]

Oh I see...

Where is the line drawn for human life then?

[sandroeleven]

well abortions is a sad thing, but i prefer it being done early rather than at 8 mos.

[CaMediaRC]

Why is abortion sad?

Are you compromising with human life?

[RebeccaFS1982]

7 months? 6 months? 5? Abortion is abortion. That's like saying "ok shoot the puppy, but just don't do it in front of me, where I can see it.".

[RebeccaFS1982]

There is no line. With sandroeleven, it's "out of site, out of mind".

[sandroeleven]

Abortion is a necessary evil. I think its a sad thing which is why is preferred it done earlier. I am against LTA, however at least the pain the baby goes thru (in earlier ones)is short lived compared to the suffering the kids of today go thru without relief.

[CaMediaRC]

You are the second person I have ever met who realizes the unborn is a human life, but still thinks the slaughtering of them is necessary. Now that we can agree of life in the womb, can you explain how it measures up that a life can be taken so that the mother doesn't have to take responsibility? This mentality is something we need to rid ourselves of. Murder of a baby so that we can supposedly not have to take responsibility is pure lack of love. Where is the discipline?

[sandroeleven]

that a life can be taken so that the mother doesn't have to take responsibility" What responsibility do you want? Jail time?

[CaMediaRC]

...raising a child is a big responsibility.

Joe is in college and can't afford a child. Joe doesn't want to risk getting diseases. Joe abstains.

It is simple logic, it just takes growing up.

[sandroeleven]

And if joe does not want to abstain then what?

[RebeccaFS1982]

If Joe wants to break into your house should he? I don't think he should, being that I'm against stealing myself.

Have you ever wanted to take something that didn't belong to you but didn't take it because it is wrong or did you take it because you have no self control? Just a question so I know what page you're on.

[sandroeleven]

who hasnt...now back to abortion

[BaronGrackle]

"realizes the unborn is a human life, but still thinks the slaughtering of them is necessary." CaMediaRC, if you want to groan and shake your head, do a google search for "Methodism" and "abortion". Their church officially also has this silly stance; fortunately, I know many of the church's members don't agree with it.

[RebeccaFS1982]

Exactly! Pro-lifers bhave nothing against adoption or keeping the baby. Choice adds in abortion/murdering the baby. Pro-choice=Pro-abortion.

[ilprediletto]

God bless you!

[Forlifeandeternity]

The Holy Spirit teaches us what true religion is: "Pure religion & undefiled is this,

to visit the orphans ... in their affliction."

Let us take the time to go to our local abortuary & reach out to the aborting moms. Let us visit the imperiled babies that we might obey the positive duty implicit in the commandment "You shall not murder". We truly must love these lost mothers enough to live sacrificially to help them turn to Christ in repentant faith & continue their pregnancy.

[CDRphoenix]

Very chilling ... I'm very eager to see the opposing replies. Although incredibly sad, it is in a way fascinating to see how the human mind can rationalize the unthinkable so a person can believe something he thinks he should believe. "Catholic: Obama supporters come to mind as an obvious example.

[prolifeinternational]

This is chilling stuff,but thankyou for putting in into the public arena..the truth *must* be told.