Florida Retirement System Compared to Other Southeastern US Retirement Systems

[quick1kungfu]

FRS bank losses are enormous! I wonder why Rep Workman does not seek reimbursement for faulty investment offerings like other states have been doing?

p. 28 Bank of America -316,327,012.67

p. 28 Bank of New York Mellon -2,434,291.60

p. 29 Barclays -19,997,665.40

p. 30 BB&T -6,569,393.34

p. 35 BNP Paribas -9,066,142.18

p. 54 Citigroup -279,818,109.26

See full list of bank losses here:

tawebster (dot) wordpress (dot) com/2011/04/27/florida-retirem­ent-system-frs/

[macmen007]

Let's take the elected official retirement pay FIRST!

Look t what the retire court system people get...let's work on them FIRST!

[olegnalocj]

Excellent vid that explains the FRS very well.

[cplcarlman]

@pbmasterpiece As bad as my video makes it look for Florida teachers, you are right, it's actually worse. Since Florida teachers rate 47th nationally in average salary, and retirement benefits are based in part on average salaries, retiring Florida teachers have even worse benefits when compared to other states. I might make another video, but I would have to look up a lot of information about current and past salary schedules for Florida and other states.

[pbmasterpiece]

Thank you for taking the time to educate all of us on the FRS as compared to other states. I wish you would also add a video on the comparisons between states on teacher pay initially when first teaching as well as what happens salary wise over subsequent years.Additionally all those complaining about teacher salaries might be well served to learn how the profession stacks up against other professions requiring comparable degrees.

[philgorp]

i understand the point you were making exactly. but bitching about making some small sacrifice in your life. when more floridians than there are public servants have completely lost their jobs and the rest of us are really having to struggle to make ends meet.,, well then honestly you just sound childish and self centered. and seriously myself and most any other taxpayer could care less what other states are paying. you knew what you were getting when you signed on.

phil

[cplcarlman]

I do not like being equated to a child fussing over a cookie when I complain that a benefit that I have always had is being taken away from me. If have been polite in responding to your arguments while at the same time you have been condescending. I have explained why being a Florida public employee and not contributing to FRS is financially worse for the employee than it would be if he were for example an employee of Georgia and contributing his 5%. I will no longer respond to your comments.

[philgorp]

this taxpayer pays for his own retirement . your video makes your point well enough. my sister inlaw solves that kind of problem with a scale. she just bit a little off till the cookie halfs were equal. replacements aren't always low quality. these were useless teachers they couldn't fire. did you read it completely? it was more an indictment of the school systems use of the Affirmative Action busing policy. my uncle was stuck with a few of these teachers after the school became an elementary.

[cplcarlman]

I understand this money comes from taxpayers (of which I am one as well). Again the point and scope of this video is to show that FRS is not as good as other similar programs. That can't be disputed no matter your biases. As far as there being plenty of people to "do the job for less." I thought you stated that you had a pretty bad school experience yourself. I'm sure replacing quality experienced teachers with low cost replacements won't make the school experience good for anyone.

[philgorp]

i was going to stop but,,,,

you do not seem able to use the word "taxpayer". "government enitity" is a euphemism for tax payer.

i'm pretty sure the system was in place when you were hired. like i said earlier. if you and anyone else can find a better position go for it. there are plenty of people who will do the job for less.

[cplcarlman]

In other states where the employees contribute, the various government entities also contribute. You still are ignoring the fact that we get less money in retirement (even if you count employee contributions) than other state employees do. You did hear that right? Less money than other states even as the system is now compared to other state systems. Gov. Scott wants us to contribute which would result in us having a bigger net deficit (contributions vs. benefits) than other states.

[philgorp]

ps; 122 billion is 1/9th of a trillion. thats a lot of money. and for the record,, if public employees are only now being asked to pay into the fund. then that means that taxpayers had to have paid into it instead

[philgorp]

i'm going to go with the bulldozer method. the entire system has been made extremely complicated. as you state it it takes too many teachers to to teach one student one thing. i'll just move on to the elephant in the room. i firmly believe the biggest problem with education today is the NEA. they're more intrested in jobs and benefits than students. education has changed, but all that has happened is piecework updates. when we need a completely new program.

i'll leave you with that. good luck.

[cplcarlman]

As far as some of your other proposals, how many bilingual people qualified to teach are just sitting around waiting to be hired. In my county alone, we have over 6,000 teachers (we have over 90,000 students we serve). At the secondary level, students of multiple languages have to learn varied subjects. They won't be able to have one bilingual teacher to fulfill their needs. They would need bilingual teachers in each subject area (math, science). This would cost more than the status quo.

[cplcarlman]

You do realize that teachers are just like ordinary citizens. How would a teacher budget their personal finances if year-to-year their pay went up and down depending on how a particular group of students performed on one test throughout a 180-day school year? As far as the retirement benefit fund, that's what happens when all the different agencies pay into the fund. BTW, he hasn't stated that the savings would be funneled back into the classroom. They would be used for state budget items.

[philgorp]

change scares you.

we could start with merit based pay. or even use that recently invented thing called the inter"tubes" this one thing alone would cut tranportation costs. how about hiring bilingual teachers. we could require english classes. howabout less administration. the entire system needs to be scrapped

or even have public employees pay into their retirement and heathcare like their private counterparts. seriously where did this $122.000.000.000 retirement and benefit fund come from?

[cplcarlman]

So where do you plan to make these cuts? Do you tell the parents that there will be no free or reduced lunches any more? Do you not provide ADA buses (along with the additional bus attendant) to pick up handicapped students? Do the schools not provide speech therapists for students with speech difficulties? Do we get rid of ESOL teachers that help regular teachers with students that speak NO English whatsoever? I agree with you that we need more funds in the classroom. But from where?

[cplcarlman]

So where do you plan to make these cuts? Do you tell the parents that there will be no free or reduced lunches any more? Do you not provide ADA buses (along with the additional bus attendant) to pick up handicapped students? Do the schools not provide speech therapists for students with speech difficulties? Do we get rid of ESOL teachers that help regular teachers with students that speak NO English whatsoever? I agree with you that we need more funds in the classroom. But from where?

[philgorp]

like i said, public schools are top heavy, much less of the funds actually make it to the students education. if the education system were overhauled. there would be more funds available for students and teachers. but that would stand no chance with all the extra hands in the pot. as an analogy. a fried chicken place near my house was so full of bugs that the only choice they had was to bulldoze it and build a new structure. as wisconsins luck has it, thats what they may end up doing.

[cplcarlman]

Funding level per student is a little deceptive. For instance public schools are mandated to provide free transportation for students, free or reduced cost food to low income students (including breakfast) as well as any other accommodation for special needs children. Private schools don't have to do any of this.

[philgorp]

Carl, i appreciate your patience. per pupil spending.estimates in florida. seem to range from 7500 to 10.000+ pr yr. that averages out to 8500. is that fair? the national average is over that. private schools seem to be a little less, some more. the difference would be that private schools by nature must be profitable and deliver results. public schools are completely tax funded and top heavy. less of the per pupil funds go toward students and yes, some parents consider school a daycare.

[philgorp]

this may not be relevant to this discussion. but,

my experience with public schools was not so great . the middle school i attended was a dumping ground for subpar teachers. thru busing, it was then populated by students from low income neighborhoods. the problem then and even now, was these teachers couldn't be fired very easily.

[cplcarlman]

It's amazing to me how some people think that no matter what private industry can do better. In some aspects, I agree. However, the education field is different. You cannot compare private education and public education. On the private side, you have parents that are willing to spend a lot of money to send their children to private schools. On the public side, I can't sometimes get parents to do ANYTHING to help me educate their children. Somehow I am supposed to compete with that?

[philgorp]

if  you still want to argue that your put upon. because some other state or private sector schools have better benefits. then move to the private sector. besides public schools have consistantly performed poorly compared to private schools. i would go so far (and i have) to suggest that education should allow private competition in the form of vouchers. all this talk about greedy corporations, neverminding the monopoly that is public education.

[brooklou]

Well done. As for philgorp and many others who want to now bring up the economic hardships faced by many of those in the private sector I can only say that I never heard them complain during the economic boom times during the 90's and early 2000's. While those in the private sectors were raking it in both in salary and corporate profit sharing plans my teaching salary increased by less than 2% a year. With my education I certainly would have done better financially in the private sector.

[cplcarlman]

The multiplier is the percentage that is applied to each year of service that an employee has. Florida's is 1.6%, other states have multipliers up to 2.5% (higher = bigger retirement checks). Contribution rate is different. That is the percentage of wage that employees must contribute to their retirement. Florida's multiplier is low compared to other states, and as a result, Florida retirees have lower retirement benefits than other states (smaller retirement checks).

[philgorp]

oh, ok .. by multiplier you mean the percent that taxpayers contribute. and AFC is how your total retirement schedule is figured and paid. so if you all have to pay into the fund. you want more out of it. so your benifits would not be less than the other kids. they only fair thing to do would be to adjust everyones benifits to a standard level with standardised contributions and benefits. and bring them more to the level of private businesses

[cplcarlman]

I have no problem with public employees paying into FRS either as long as our multiplier is raised and our AFC period is shortened. Governor Scott has only talked about changing our retirement into a contributory system (supposedly to make it more like other state retirement systems). If he doesn't increase our multiplier or adjust our AFC period, FRS will be less like other state retirement systems. All of these factors are intertwined.

[philgorp]

making a case that other states have better benefits. rings hollow with nonpublic employees. this might resonate with public employees. but it's really not going to garner much sympathy with the average taxpayer. the worst benefits you receive are better than the benefits of most of the private employees in florida.

i have no problem with public employees paying into a retirement fund.

that's currently around $122 billion. with less than 700.000 public employees. how does that work?

[cplcarlman]

I'm not saying public employees should be immune to the current economic situation. We have not been. My school has lost many units. We have moved from a 4 x 4 scheduling model to a alternating block scheduling model. This has reduced the amount of planning time that I receive. I just don't want the Governor to pass off the half-truth that FRS employees are getting some sort of a benefit that other state employees aren't getting by way of a "free ride".

[philgorp]

don't bother with the hostility angle. i'll take it for the smokescreen it is. for the same reason i would discount a hypothetical arguement like; if your not for greenpeace. then you want to kill the whales. trying to marginalize me doesn't reflect well on your education.

what i do take exception to is, trying to say that public employees should be immune to the current economic situation unlike the rest of us.

with the exception of fire and law the rest would be better off privatized.

[cplcarlman]

@philgorp The fact of the matter is that FRS retirement benefits are worse than most other state retirement system benefits. That can't be disputed. I would be curious why you have such a negative attitude towards public employees. It seems that phrase has a negative connotation to you. Do fires not need extinguishing? Do streets not need policing? Do children not need educating? Firefighters, police officers, and teachers (and other employees) perform necessary jobs. Why the hostility?

[philgorp]

oops i made a mistake in my first post (there very few >private< retirement plans that don't require employees to contribute)

if FRS is noncontributary then where do the funds come from?

i'll go ahead and answer this. initially from me and every other taxpayer. so your correct. you can't compare them. i'm comparing apples to cookies.

[cplcarlman]

@philgorp I was trying to compare apples to apples with this video. It would have been impossible to compare a public retirement system with the myriad of private retirement options available to private employees. Also, you miss the point. The fact that FRS is non-contributory is offset by its lower multiplier and longer AFC period. I thought this was made clear in the video.

[philgorp]

how about comparing public and private retirement systems? this entire comparison is based on public benifits. it sounds like bratty children arguing over whos half of the cookie is bigger. there very few public retirement plans that don't require employees to contribute.  same thing with health insurance.

[jre7007]

Hi Carl, great video. You've explained this very well! Hopefully many more will see it (including our illustrious governor...ha) and realize that Florida state/local workers are NOT getting something for free! Thanks very much for sharing.

[katd1d]

Great Job explaining the Truth about our Retirement!