This guy is really wise! Logic and deduction! Its the way were suppose to think! Not someone else hijacking our minds! And run us into the ground! Thats not Alan Watts voice though!
@infonator1 Are you sure you're not confusing the American counter-cultural Alan Watt (still living) with the late English philosopher Alan W. Watts (1915 - 1973)? The voice on this recording is of the late English philosopher, who taught Eastern thought (Buddhism and Zen) to the Hippy generation in the 1960s.
@uilium Alan Watts never claimed to be a guru. So he would never advise anyone on the correct Path. It is said of Zen: its not to teach anything new, but to remind you of something you have forgotten. I believe one should listen to Watts in the same spirit. A good exercise is to try to recapture the experience of the world as a child, when the most fascinating things were found in everyday Nature. Due to social conditioning, most of us have forgotten this very deep and essential connection.
@uilium Take time everyday to look at flowers and trees. Watch birds and marvel how they can achieve everything we do (i.e. build a home, raise offspring), yet without any schooling, governments or a medical plan. Watch your pets and see what you can learn from their very simple ways, such as non-judgement and unconditional love. (alias yinyangnature)
@yingyangnature it is not true "the wisdom is so profound most fans of the late great philosopher don't notice it' and it is a very arrogant thing to say, as if those that are aware or annoyed by the sound quality are either not fans or not enveloped enough in his profoundness. The sound quality is hard to get through especially in the first few minutes, and that is all.
Guys like him dont exist anymore these days. All the intellectuals in the West have been successfully feminazicised!
To the extent women gain power in a culture or a society they are doomed to failure. The shift of wealth and influence from West to East corresponds perfectly with this observation
BTW: Which is the wealthiest country in Europe? Switzerland - They were the last to grant women voting rights (1972).
This is an invitation to anyone or everyone see an artist theory on the physics of light and time!
This theory is based on two postulates
1. Is that the quantum wave particle function Ψ represents the forward passage of time ∆E ∆t ≥ h/2π itself
2. Is that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle ∆×∆p×≥h/4π that is formed by the w- function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event that we can interact with turning the possible into the actual!
Are you seeking truth? Search for "Truth Contest" in Google and click the 1st result, then click on "The Present" to open it. What it says will blow your mind.
"When you are enlightened, whatsoever you say is beautiful; it has to be. But when you are not enlightened and groping in the dark, and yet can find a small window of light, that's tremendous, fantastic. Alan Watts was a drunkard, but still he was very close." - Osho. Hmm, I remember reading that DT Suzuki thought Watts was a Bodhisattva.
@Tengent If Watts had been a Saint rather than a drunkard and a womaniser, this would excuse the rest of us from even trying. However, Watts showed that regardless of our bad habits and neuroses, we can all Walk the Path.
@yinyangnature Yeah, I read somewhere Watts said that he drinks in an enlightened way. I really wish Osho and Watts could have talked. Osho wrote a bit of a critique on Watt's view of leela (God is everything just playing a game), which I agree with. Yet at the same time Osho really likes The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are..
@yinyangnature Ah, yes! Recently I've been pondering the whole "What's the use of seeking enlightenment in the first place, since we all are already in harmony with the Tao, which there is no getting away from?" Trying to wrap your head around it, as Watts said, is a false problem.
@yinyangnature I agree. He laughed about people who turned enlightenment into a competition. The phrase "muscle-bound spirituality" just popped into my mind for some reason. We've all known their sort. Ugh. lol
@justwin6275 Lol there are no levels, "Alan Watts" talk about this. Everything is unity. You have "bad people" so that "good people" are called. "Low Intellectual" so that the opposite is there. You're not alone at all. I am deeper intellectual, yet I am dumb at the same time. Who am I? I am GOD, I choose to play my own game. The game of life is fun, yet I really don't know why I have fun for. See? we are playing a mind game right now justwin6275
You are in a calm swimming pool, keeping the water perfectly still, like glass. It is autumn and every once in a while the wind will gust and blow leaves into your perfectly still pool. You now have a choice: you can swim out and attempt to catch the leaf, making the pool more active from your swimming movements, but preventing it from hitting the water - or you can stay still and calm and know the ripples will eventually fade.
@Tha1calledjoe Difficult question... Need to have the knowledge to answer... Movement of air? Caused by... Trees? :D Some kind of magnetic fields?.. All of nature?.. :D Me? :D
@Lamrod209 The recording is over 40 years old and not done in ideal conditions. However, the wisdom is so profound, most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it.
@Basram The recording is over 40 years old and not done in ideal conditions. However, the wisdom is so profound, most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it.
@yinyangnature "most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it" hmm..its almost as though you saying that Alan watts is like a religious leader and true devotes wont notice the bad sound quality BECAUSE its Alan watts... Seems like religious workshop rather than truly understanding Alan watts philosophy..
Absolutely. I didnt say you have knowledge I said you have wisdom and so it is.If we think we have knowedge we know nothing. The joy of beauty, the happiness of wisdom and the bliss of love is the glory of Unity with God. Walk light of heart, rejoice, follow the higher path. The surest knowledge is the heart's. Let your heart unfold and your age perceive. There is no greater love than love you are a beautiful soul. blessings in love and light ~shine on Om Namah Shivay
@zarny911 Well, you are right in saying that. Not all old people are wise. Some are just downright illogical and stubborn in their ways. Those are the people that have refused to open their mind to other viewpoints and opinions. To consider all options. Those are the people who are content in living within their limited points of view.
I think that the older you get, the more you understand what life is all about. And through that, you can attain your own wisdom. I'm not going to look for wisdom like a madman because I'm young. I think it's better to let wisdom come to you. Oh, and to listen with full attention to those that already have that wisdom. That also helps out a lot. When an old person wishes to teach you of his experiences, those words are priceless.
@RedCrescentDemon I find that older people also think they already know. Just think of old people during the transition between flat earth and round earth. The people who have always believed something will not receive evidence of anything new and it is a problem from young and old. Old people say they know because they are old. But knowing is the problem is it not? When we "know" we leave no room for new information.
@Atomikbrainfu True, there is a mild arrogance in old people sometimes. I think the most important thing to do throughout your life is to learn as much as you can and prepare yourself for learning new things on top of all that experience. It is also important to adapt yourself to new information which is susceptible to change based on the current era's politics, times, things like that. In other words, always open your mind to new information. At least, that's what I think.
@xii226a No, I'm just like you. Like everyone else here. Nothing more. I don't really know anything. I believe pure wisdom comes from age. Because the longer you've lived, the more you understand things. And through a very deep understanding, wisdom manifests. Because I haven't lived a full lifetime, I can't consider myself even close to being wise. Maybe in 50+ years I can look back at these words and really understand what I'm saying. For now though, it's just rambling from a young guy.
@Miami9islove When you realize that you truly know nothing, is when you begin to understand. I know that regardless of all the knowledge and wisdom and experience I acquire in my short lifespan, it will never amount to the entire knowledge of the whole universe(s). This is why I say I know nothing. Life is full of suffering but going through it is much easier when you hear the words of those who've lived before you. They've achieved layers of understanding that youth hasn't reached.
@rhcprxbandits I don't think all of them turn out that way. Plus, you can't blame them for being that way. Seeing as they're so close to the brink of death. Anyone would feel frustrated and hopeless to the passage of time if they knew and had to accept that they are close to dying. They know that these years will be their last years. Although they sometimes upset me because of their ways, I can sympathize with them. I know I'll probably have a mid-life crisis because I love being young.
@RedCrescentDemon In response, I agree in the sense of developing wisdom as it comes, but believe in that by itself. Everything.. in theory, should be questioned regardless of who experiences, and regardless the resource. Older people have lived and experience more, however, a lot of people.. I mean a lot of people have false, influenced ideology that stems from a controlled culture, religion, economy, media etc. Develop your wisdoms & righteousness as the truth of your reality is within you.
@skoakes89 I highly concur. People are heavily influenced by their upbringing. So much so that it practically dictates are large portion of who they are. And not everyone experiences the same problems, hardships, etc. There's a different kind of wisdom to be learned from all faces.
@RedCrescentDemon I am only fourteen years and have made attaining more and more wisdom such an obsession that i feel as if i cannot function normally anymore. I am trying not to want to figure everything out but it has become such a habit i catchmy mind going in circles trying to figure out things that are impossible to figure out, i can no longer sleep at night. This causes me to be unbearably anxious and I just want to relax and not overthink things anymore but I don't know how to.any advice?
@jaykaydee33 I find that when you think about something too much, you exhaust yourself to the brink of fatigue, and in that exhaustion your mind will give you those answers. As for the impossible answers like paradoxes and things that cannot be answered while we are alive, it is best to accept them as what they are since those answers will not be obtained in your lifetime anyway. Try focusing more on the things that can be answered and only figure things out that can be figured out.
@jaykaydee33 You sound like the kind of guy that questions everything around him. This is good. This is healthy. For when the mind stops learning new things, one truly dies. The young are often very impatient and their young minds try speedily to get at something or solve something. Instead of trying to find the answer so quickly, simply remain in that plane of thought and wade through it. Relax, and let these answers come to you. Pace yourself. Practice slowing down yourself and your thoughts.
I'm a young person, and take it from me. I think life is a two sided coin in which young people know many things that old people seem to forget or bury with cynicism/guilt/feelings of responsibility, while old people have experienced many pains that young people are naive to. I think, especially in America where I live, that both groups don't give the other group enough credit for their wisdom. Life is a circle, not a line. Insights are gained and lost.
And with regards to the acquisition of knowledge: There are many ways people like to do it, but the main two that I see (and they're on a continuum, like anything else) are this: Actively seeking it (ambition, which some people see as egotistical, calculating, because of its stressful nature) and letting it come to you (going with the flow, which some people see as lazy, because of its docile nature). Both methods are fine, though the persons behind the methods clash.
@Npowell01 True. Both methods are tried and proven to work. But it's possible that some forms of knowledge can only be acquired by one method or the other simply because of the way they're meant to be understood. Though when I think of the words "meant to be understood" I feel like I go away from the personal interpretation of that knowledge and within that interpretation can come a discovery in itself. I'm not sure if I'm right in saying that but I'm sure that both methods are tried and true.
@cabdunk I know how you feel. Sometimes when I hear these kinds of things, I feel this warm feeling coming from the top of my head and spreading throughout my whole body. It's like not only does my mind grasp to understand it, my body reacts to it as well. It's like something more than understanding it. It's being it. I don't know. I'm probably just rambling.
@RedCrescentDemon You already have it, here, in this observation. It will unfold and give itself to you. Why seek for that which you are? Shared wisdom of older seekers is a finger pointing o the moon. But not the moon. Experience. It's not so much as looking for wisdom like a madman as it is in just being...being aware. In this, comes wisdom-awakening.
@RedCrescentDemon lol there is zero wisdom, but like alan says "you cannot sway someone who is made up his mind", therefore that's your problem :D/ we are taught in school that everything goes in steps. Your mind's comprehension is not by step but the whole, and the whole is there right in front of you/right next to you/always there around/ it is you. Wisdom was never there, yet it is there at the same time. As you grow old, you found out how empty life is. That there is no wisdom, etc.
@Chieu3 The emptiness within everything. The nothingness. When you forget everything about it is when you truly understand it. It's like when Morihei Ueshiba had for a moment forgotten everything he ever learned in martial arts and came upon a new revelation because of it. No, I am not of a stubborn mind. I understand what you're saying. Wisdom is just what step by steppers call it. It was never there because it didn't need to be there for those that can see it without calling it anything.
@RedCrescentDemon what I mean is, "wisdom is a game" we are wise already. It's a mind game we play right now lol, talking to each other about our expressments. I know man, I understand you. I am you, you are me. IF you think not so, well then let the games continue. Life though is empty, the games made it fun. In my current game, I like to relax and not categorize myself. I do what comes to me, go to school, do what I am suppose to do. It gets boring sometimes, but that's part of the ride.
@RedCrescentDemon Man I type a hugh paragraph to you but deleted it... this is the new reply "I understand you, you understand me, you are me and I am you. We are playing a mind game right now lol, we both are in a cycle of reply and comments, but that is the ride of life, the fun. You categorized yourself into a "stuborn mind", it's ok and not ok at the same time. There is nothing you can do to force change on yourself. In the end, I prefer these games. It keep my life going, not the best
@RedCrescentDemon ahaha I didn't deleted it after all. You listen to Alan Watts but Alan Watts talks everything that comes to his mind, he is free of all bounds this "Alan Watts". You might have in mind that you are changed by all this, maybe it's just your mind. I don't know why I care for you enough to type all this. I don't know, really. Maybe of games, but I know that I can't change your mind. DAMNIT I am making everything boring.
@Chieu3 It doesn't matter where the source of the info comes from. It doesn't matter who says it. What matters is that one absorbs it because it is the same regardless of whoever emits it from one mind to another. The only difference is the personal, individual interpretation and mindset that the emitter is resonating from. You come to me emitting. You're sending me a message, and I'm listening. Other people do this too. That's all that matters. The transmitting and absorbing of information.
@Chieu3 Life is change and change is life. Change is inevitable. With all the different waves, vibes, and worlds people carry within them. It is inevitable that people change each other, every day. It could be over time, or it could be a single moment. It could be a short change, or a long term one. But change is always there.
@RedCrescentDemon It's time like these that I like to be honest and tell someone like you matters in this world, and tell myself that life matters. It does, but I do not feel that strong towards it for me at this moment. I may change, I really don;t know ahehe. I found out that no matter what someone says to me, I won't seem to care but only question myself using symbols in my head. It's not zen nor is it fun by any bits. I don't know who I am anymore, that's the point but I feel so empty...
@RedCrescentDemon Empty is my opinion of zen, I don't want it when I have it but I want it when I don't. Ahaha life is a wild goose chase, I already have it at the beginning and I don't have it at the same time symbolitically speaking. I guess that's why people of the past create this whole government stuff, they were bored xD. Simply bored, now we are bored with the politic and sometime stress too. It won't be long before the human race kill itself, but who really knows. Nulear Bomb FTW muahaha
@Chieu3 Emptiness is there and isn't there. I think when you stop looking for a concept and simply try to feel it. Try to be it. I think that's the easiest way to obtain that zen. Don't look for it because ti doesn't need to be found to have it. Just feel it. BE it. Be emptiness. Just be. And if the human race kills itself, better for the planet and this whole universe. We're all a bunch of eternally consuming parasites degenerating all life including our own.
@spirituallylit I have no idea why your comment was removed, or who removed it. You or the uploader. But let me reply to you by saying that I believe listening is simply, patiently, absorbing information from someone who is emitting it.
Instead of eagerly waiting for the chance to express yourself, stop. Look. Listen. Feel the words, interpret them. Decide what to think about them. Then, when it is finally over, either you choose to agree or disagree.
Eh, way i see it. Best to just live life by the moment. It's good to think about stuff. I do it all the time. To the point that my thoughts haunt me and intensify moments before I go to sleep. Like loud voices they offer their arguments. But then there are times when your mind can feel blank and null, then something small happens, something insignificant, then I learn something from it. But I believe that true wisdom comes with age more than anything else.
But as many sages and masters have said: It is about realizing the folly of all this, it is to give it up, give up to wisdom and yet have the will to attain wisdom, surrender to truth and yet seek truth, surrender to virtue and yet will to seek virtue. It is paradoxical and beautiful at the same time and yet it leads to the destiny of every human. And well of course we can't know the absolute, only the absolute can know it's own infinite wisdom, love and truth.
There is a self made trap when seeking for enlightment, which is an obssesion for being illumined, people desperatly try to prove their worth, desperate to proveto to the master, to the universe and to themselves that they are worthy because they are willing to suffer enough (many times they will deny it, talk about the unconscious). For some reason they are also expecting to feel something special or a kind of signal that let them know that they have achieved enlightment.
i am merely perplexed by my own existence. life is a paradox--an enigma that starts and ends with two anomalies which can only be within the realm of their own coexistence. and we who are aware of this have the freedom to adopt whatever perspective of this reality we so choose. and we also can change our minds at our own will.
i believe reality is like a sphere. we can never see its entire surface. but we can move to reveal its different perspectives. the truth is we can't know the whole truth.
@jeremyfrancis You have truly glimpsed what only the sages have seen. You must now try to maintain this wisdom without either grasping or ego. In my experience this is far more difficult. Namaste my friend, Bobba.
Wish I could hear Alan's voice when I get confronted with particular situations, but then again perhaps I shouldn't be so attached to his teaching style. But maybe I shouldn't be so attached to wanting to not be attached to it. Oh I give up, I will just let it be and let go
@matthew376 Indeed. Not getting attached to attachment, and not grasping onto grasping, are the most difficult realisations to realise. I often wish I had the nature of a wild bird and could unquestionably act on any moment without hesitation or analysis. To live a life uncalculated must be the ultimate attainment. But how are we ever to escape the double bind of 'just letting it be and let go, in the hope our lives will somehow improve? Of course this is only a rhetorical question...
Attachment causes suffering because we cannot always have the things to which we are attached, or because our attachment causes us to act irrationally. How can either case spring out of attachment to non-attachment?
However you answer, whoever is attached to being unattached is running in the hamster wheel and will eventually get tired and stop.
The restriction they seek to escape is the law of identity. The freedom they seek is freedom from the fact that an A will remain an A, no matter what their tears or tantrums—that water will not run uphill, no matter what comforts they could gain if it did, and if they want to lift it to the roof of a skyscraper, they must do it by a process of thought and labor, in which the nature of an inch of pipe line counts, but their feelings do not.
Do you want to know why we needlessly. It's because as human beings we are willing to dissolve the absolutes of reason, logic, matter, existence, reality, and to erect upon that plastic fog a single holy absolute: their Wish.
Typical nihlistic mental gymnastics. Comparing rationalists who recognize that reality needs to be perceived for what it is by means of our mind and ability to reason to people who think the world is flat is not only absurd, but insulting. He claims that we can't perceive a reality undistorted by out subconscious, which only means that he is unwilling to perceive a reality undistorted by his feelings. He provides no reasoning whatsoever as to why we are not the "I"
Do more reading into Zen, I think the more you learn to more you'll find that it dovetails beautifully with rationality.
If you want reasoning as to why an illusion is an illusion, think a little more deeply about what individual separateness means when taken to its logical extremes. Eventually the concept undoes itself.
And on what basis does the absolute authority of the sovereign mind stand? And how would you define the nature of this mind in relation to the world of sensory experience and of thought?
@WSWarthog That stems from the root of epistemology, but also from the fact that to live, we must think and use our minds. That is our basic tool of survival, that or live on a deficit and rely on the generosity of others. But you still haven't told me precisely what you think are the negative consequence of this.
"That stems from the root of epistemology, but also from the fact that to live, we must think and use our minds."
In terms of our current discussion the former basis is the one we should focus on, I think. So would it be fair to formulate your position as essentially solipsistic? That is to say, since it is the case that the only thing of which we can be sure to exist is the self, that we should consider the individual mind to be of primary importance?
@WSWarthog Nope, it is not solipsistic. I am Aristotelean, and as such accept that everything in the universe follows the axiom of existence, namely the law of identity. This means, in its most simplest form, that existence exists and that you know it. In its actual form, it means the following-existence is identity, consciousness is identification. So will the tool of identification be your mind or someone else's?
Ok so we can at least establish that there is some reality external to the self, and that the self can have some sort of relationship with that reality (in this case the relationship is one of identification). Of-course, for any individual the tool for exercising this relationship cannot be anything other than his own mind. But this prompts me into another question, mainly on the nature of the "tool" and what it is exactly. Is there any better definition for the mind other than
@WSWarthog It is indeed very difficult to write on such matters within 500 characters, but to put it bluntly, the tool specifically is the faculty of reason. This is the faculty that perceives, identifies and integrates the material provided by his senses. The task of his senses is to give him the evidence of existence, but the task of identifying it belongs to his reason, his senses tell him only that something is, but what it is must be learned by his mind.
@WSWarthog All thinking is a process of identification and integration. Man perceives a blob of color; by integrating the evidence of his sight and his touch, he learns to identify it as a solid object; he learns to identify the object as a table; he learns that the table is made of wood; he learns that the wood consists of cells, that the cells consist of molecules, that the molecules consist of atoms.
That seems like a fair description of the relationship between reason and the sensory world. But the mind in its totality is not the faculty of reason alone, so if we want to address the question of whether or not the a person is separate from the perceived reality or one with it we will need to do this in terms of a complete conception of the mind rather than a partial picture which includes only the perception and processing of sensory information.
@WSWarthog Well, to put it simply, the mind is sovereign because the mind makes independent judgement. There are of course limits to your knowledge and mine, but that doesn't mean its better to surrender your sovereignty completely. You do indeed understand my position well, but I have to understand what you mean by being "separate" v. "being one with everything".
"I have to understand what you mean by being "separate" v. "being one with everything""
Well, to be honest I have no idea. As far as I can see the two concepts eventually meet at the same place.
"the mind is sovereign because the mind makes independent judgement." - ah, but does it really? Of-course we may assume that each person's mind works without any immediate interference to influence on its pattern of thought, but everyone's thinking is influenced over a long period of...
@WSWarthog I never said without influence. Independence does not mean using your mind in a complete vacuum. That's pretty much a straw man fallacy. However the mind comes to its own conclusions volitionally and on its own terms. If you think otherwise, tell me if you believe everything everyone has ever told you. Your consciousness is your consciousness- if there were any interconnectedness, why do still form our own conclusions?
...time by other people's opinions, new knowledge that the mind itself did not generate, the conditions that it finds itself in, its past experiences and so on. So at least it seems to me as if there's some level of interconnectedness between different people's consciousnesses and between people and the sensory world, even if it doesn't seem to be the case at this point that we can say "everything is one".
But I don't want to be side-tracked too far. As far as I understand your position now, the basis for viewing the self as separate from others and from the universe is because of the necessity for a person to situate himself within the context of the various aspects of his life (daily, intellectual, spiritual if you go for that) in a way that allows him to make valuable judgements and that this requires discernment.
I agree that thinking for yourself is important (simply on the basis that it can't be done for you). But it's not clear to me how this can be the basis for the sovereignty of the mind, by which I mean to consider it to be completely separate on the basis of this function you described through which we individually interpret and define reality.
I'll consider any further response and respond tomorrow.
If we follow our discussion through to its logical conclusion and it becomes apparent that the case for separateness is the stronger, I'll concede the point.
"It seems that i know that i know. What i would like to see is the I that knows me when I know that I know that I know." One of my favorite quotes of all time.
@Thesoulofalion Indeed. It is an affront to our ego when things are other than the way the ego desires things to be. Hence, we only suffer because we are unwilling to accept and we are unable to understand. We should also have great compassion for others who are unable or unwilling to experience this fundamental reality. May all beings be released from suffering.
@Thesoulofalion EXACTLY! From "The Power of Now"-E.Tolle I began to practice re-difining some of my old phrase/word meanings. Instead of calling something a 'problem' i use the phrase 'life situation' these little gems can be very helpful/useful on this 'journey'
@Thesoulofalion Sometimes you have to label to move around the idea. Know not to label but to never forget as a tool for building bridges for others to learn and for the thought to be more concrete
From Mr. Watts' description of the Za-zen state (not thinking; rather, perceiving only at a sensory level, and responding to sense, rather than conscious thought), perhaps the best common example, albeit imperfect, is the experience of driving an automobile along an accustomed route, perhaps to work. We drive, and are occasionally jarred to consciousness by distractions such as traffic signals, but arrive having paid little conscious attention while operating a large machine in traffic. =^[.]^=
@Raycheetah I remember recounting the same experience to my friends some years ago. Some of them accused me of being a hazard on the road, but I assured them my sub-conscience (or cerebellum) was capable of performing these functions without my awareness. After all it organises my digestion, cell division, heart beat & gland secretions; surely my trivial day to day stuff wouldn't be any great challenge? Maybe we could learn to live out our entire life in this way? Now that really would be Zen!
This guy is really wise! Logic and deduction! Its the way were suppose to think! Not someone else hijacking our minds! And run us into the ground! Thats not Alan Watts voice though!
infonator1 1 week ago
@infonator1 Are you sure you're not confusing the American counter-cultural Alan Watt (still living) with the late English philosopher Alan W. Watts (1915 - 1973)? The voice on this recording is of the late English philosopher, who taught Eastern thought (Buddhism and Zen) to the Hippy generation in the 1960s.
TaoFAQ 1 week ago
Is he saying he knows the true path one should lead in life?
uilium 1 week ago
@uilium Alan Watts never claimed to be a guru. So he would never advise anyone on the correct Path. It is said of Zen: its not to teach anything new, but to remind you of something you have forgotten. I believe one should listen to Watts in the same spirit. A good exercise is to try to recapture the experience of the world as a child, when the most fascinating things were found in everyday Nature. Due to social conditioning, most of us have forgotten this very deep and essential connection.
yinyangnature 1 week ago 3
@yinyangnature Thank you :) What is the good exercise to recapture childhood?
uilium 1 week ago
@uilium Take time everyday to look at flowers and trees. Watch birds and marvel how they can achieve everything we do (i.e. build a home, raise offspring), yet without any schooling, governments or a medical plan. Watch your pets and see what you can learn from their very simple ways, such as non-judgement and unconditional love. (alias yinyangnature)
TaoFAQ 1 week ago
The problem of life is that it is ridiculously overrated. Death rules.
astrophonix 4 weeks ago
@astrophonix Yes, The Buddha said to think about death all the time for the purpose of purifying our minds and suffering less.
uilium 1 week ago
i think that blew my mind a bit too much...
MrShadyJeff 4 weeks ago
the more i listen to alan watts, the less it all makes sense
executionator 1 month ago
check out my alan watts vid here! watch?v=T_oWRxf2Nrs
mhems372 1 month ago
@yingyangnature it is not true "the wisdom is so profound most fans of the late great philosopher don't notice it' and it is a very arrogant thing to say, as if those that are aware or annoyed by the sound quality are either not fans or not enveloped enough in his profoundness. The sound quality is hard to get through especially in the first few minutes, and that is all.
MissSarakj 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Alan was THE dude! Smart, wise, womanizer!
Guys like him dont exist anymore these days. All the intellectuals in the West have been successfully feminazicised!
To the extent women gain power in a culture or a society they are doomed to failure. The shift of wealth and influence from West to East corresponds perfectly with this observation
BTW: Which is the wealthiest country in Europe? Switzerland - They were the last to grant women voting rights (1972).
Draw your own conclusions.
MrSlapmeister 1 month ago
Interesting video!
This is an invitation to anyone or everyone see an artist theory on the physics of light and time!
This theory is based on two postulates
1. Is that the quantum wave particle function Ψ represents the forward passage of time ∆E ∆t ≥ h/2π itself
2. Is that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle ∆×∆p×≥h/4π that is formed by the w- function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event that we can interact with turning the possible into the actual!
nickharvey7 2 months ago
Are you seeking truth? Search for "Truth Contest" in Google and click the 1st result, then click on "The Present" to open it. What it says will blow your mind.
jchijan 3 months ago
well if the world is flat a binoculars would make every place visible ;-)
KOmaSHOOTER 4 months ago
"When you are enlightened, whatsoever you say is beautiful; it has to be. But when you are not enlightened and groping in the dark, and yet can find a small window of light, that's tremendous, fantastic. Alan Watts was a drunkard, but still he was very close." - Osho. Hmm, I remember reading that DT Suzuki thought Watts was a Bodhisattva.
Tengent 4 months ago
@Tengent If Watts had been a Saint rather than a drunkard and a womaniser, this would excuse the rest of us from even trying. However, Watts showed that regardless of our bad habits and neuroses, we can all Walk the Path.
yinyangnature 4 months ago 15
@yinyangnature Yeah, I read somewhere Watts said that he drinks in an enlightened way. I really wish Osho and Watts could have talked. Osho wrote a bit of a critique on Watt's view of leela (God is everything just playing a game), which I agree with. Yet at the same time Osho really likes The Book on the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are..
Tengent 4 months ago
@yinyangnature not only that but one can be a true Saint and still have bad habits, neuroses etc......because that is just the personality.
nyclear 2 months ago
@yinyangnature Ah, yes! Recently I've been pondering the whole "What's the use of seeking enlightenment in the first place, since we all are already in harmony with the Tao, which there is no getting away from?" Trying to wrap your head around it, as Watts said, is a false problem.
Tengent 1 month ago
@yinyangnature I agree. He laughed about people who turned enlightenment into a competition. The phrase "muscle-bound spirituality" just popped into my mind for some reason. We've all known their sort. Ugh. lol
asynkronos 1 week ago
@soran27 incredible i wish there were more people like you and Alan Watts who understand things on a different deeper intellectual level
justwin6275 4 months ago
@justwin6275 Lol there are no levels, "Alan Watts" talk about this. Everything is unity. You have "bad people" so that "good people" are called. "Low Intellectual" so that the opposite is there. You're not alone at all. I am deeper intellectual, yet I am dumb at the same time. Who am I? I am GOD, I choose to play my own game. The game of life is fun, yet I really don't know why I have fun for. See? we are playing a mind game right now justwin6275
Chieu3 3 months ago
A meditation aid:
You are in a calm swimming pool, keeping the water perfectly still, like glass. It is autumn and every once in a while the wind will gust and blow leaves into your perfectly still pool. You now have a choice: you can swim out and attempt to catch the leaf, making the pool more active from your swimming movements, but preventing it from hitting the water - or you can stay still and calm and know the ripples will eventually fade.
The pool is your mind the leaves are ideas.
soran27 4 months ago 20
@soran27 A beautiful image indeed.
yinyangnature 4 months ago
@soran27 But now your pool is full of leaves.
ltftw2 3 months ago
@soran27 What is the wind?
Tha1calledjoe 3 months ago
@Tha1calledjoe Difficult question... Need to have the knowledge to answer... Movement of air? Caused by... Trees? :D Some kind of magnetic fields?.. All of nature?.. :D Me? :D
KaiTendo174 2 months ago
@soran27 That's awesome!
STROUDisLOUD 1 month ago
@soran27 yep, except the leaves go away if you leave them alone.
hampstershat123 1 week ago
i love this
0011STEALTH 5 months ago
whats up with the sound?
Lamrod209 6 months ago
@Lamrod209 The recording is over 40 years old and not done in ideal conditions. However, the wisdom is so profound, most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it.
yinyangnature 6 months ago 5
@yinyangnature the sound problems can't clutter any of the wisdom that Alan shares in this talk :)
Basram 6 months ago
@yinyangnature
Umm don't notice it or they don't care?
How can someone not "notice" this lol
seppukuification925 4 months ago
@Lamrod209 i didnt notice the sound untill i read your comment... thanks
magnesium111 6 months ago
Too bad the sound is bad.. or is it my computer?
Basram 6 months ago 3
@Basram The recording is over 40 years old and not done in ideal conditions. However, the wisdom is so profound, most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it.
yinyangnature 6 months ago 6
This has been flagged as spam show
@yinyangnature "most fans of the great late philosopher don't notice it" hmm..its almost as though you saying that Alan watts is like a religious leader and true devotes wont notice the bad sound quality BECAUSE its Alan watts... Seems like religious workshop rather than truly understanding Alan watts philosophy..
mrfcukdevil 4 months ago
You want to see me now? Well here I am. This is me.
ace1122tw 6 months ago in playlist alan
I already knew the earth was cylindrical.
claudelebel55 8 months ago
@claudelebel55 strange i thought it was geoid.
userwl2850 8 months ago
Absolutely. I didnt say you have knowledge I said you have wisdom and so it is.If we think we have knowedge we know nothing. The joy of beauty, the happiness of wisdom and the bliss of love is the glory of Unity with God. Walk light of heart, rejoice, follow the higher path. The surest knowledge is the heart's. Let your heart unfold and your age perceive. There is no greater love than love you are a beautiful soul. blessings in love and light ~shine on Om Namah Shivay
Miami9islove 8 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon...if pure wisdom came simply from age every old person would be wise. They aren't.
zarny911 9 months ago
@zarny911 Well, you are right in saying that. Not all old people are wise. Some are just downright illogical and stubborn in their ways. Those are the people that have refused to open their mind to other viewpoints and opinions. To consider all options. Those are the people who are content in living within their limited points of view.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
great video, thanks for posting it
blackmagicmarkr 9 months ago
the only learning is unlearning
awareness over knowledge/
i wihsh i kne a way to show everyone this/'
even tho i think theyre just subjective parts of myself
jeffbriggs1987 10 months ago
just poor little o' me eh?
xii226a 10 months ago
I think that the older you get, the more you understand what life is all about. And through that, you can attain your own wisdom. I'm not going to look for wisdom like a madman because I'm young. I think it's better to let wisdom come to you. Oh, and to listen with full attention to those that already have that wisdom. That also helps out a lot. When an old person wishes to teach you of his experiences, those words are priceless.
RedCrescentDemon 11 months ago 41
@RedCrescentDemon Great insight!
yinyangnature 11 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon I find that older people also think they already know. Just think of old people during the transition between flat earth and round earth. The people who have always believed something will not receive evidence of anything new and it is a problem from young and old. Old people say they know because they are old. But knowing is the problem is it not? When we "know" we leave no room for new information.
Atomikbrainfu 11 months ago
@Atomikbrainfu True, there is a mild arrogance in old people sometimes. I think the most important thing to do throughout your life is to learn as much as you can and prepare yourself for learning new things on top of all that experience. It is also important to adapt yourself to new information which is susceptible to change based on the current era's politics, times, things like that. In other words, always open your mind to new information. At least, that's what I think.
RedCrescentDemon 11 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon lol, you ARE that wisdom. age is meaningless.
xii226a 10 months ago
@xii226a No, I'm just like you. Like everyone else here. Nothing more. I don't really know anything. I believe pure wisdom comes from age. Because the longer you've lived, the more you understand things. And through a very deep understanding, wisdom manifests. Because I haven't lived a full lifetime, I can't consider myself even close to being wise. Maybe in 50+ years I can look back at these words and really understand what I'm saying. For now though, it's just rambling from a young guy.
RedCrescentDemon 10 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon What a wisdom and understanding you already have. You are blessed...x
Miami9islove 8 months ago
@Miami9islove When you realize that you truly know nothing, is when you begin to understand. I know that regardless of all the knowledge and wisdom and experience I acquire in my short lifespan, it will never amount to the entire knowledge of the whole universe(s). This is why I say I know nothing. Life is full of suffering but going through it is much easier when you hear the words of those who've lived before you. They've achieved layers of understanding that youth hasn't reached.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon They don't gain wisdom. Their brain cells begin to die. They just get irritable and cynical
rhcprxbandits 8 months ago
@rhcprxbandits I don't think all of them turn out that way. Plus, you can't blame them for being that way. Seeing as they're so close to the brink of death. Anyone would feel frustrated and hopeless to the passage of time if they knew and had to accept that they are close to dying. They know that these years will be their last years. Although they sometimes upset me because of their ways, I can sympathize with them. I know I'll probably have a mid-life crisis because I love being young.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon In response, I agree in the sense of developing wisdom as it comes, but believe in that by itself. Everything.. in theory, should be questioned regardless of who experiences, and regardless the resource. Older people have lived and experience more, however, a lot of people.. I mean a lot of people have false, influenced ideology that stems from a controlled culture, religion, economy, media etc. Develop your wisdoms & righteousness as the truth of your reality is within you.
skoakes89 8 months ago
@skoakes89 I highly concur. People are heavily influenced by their upbringing. So much so that it practically dictates are large portion of who they are. And not everyone experiences the same problems, hardships, etc. There's a different kind of wisdom to be learned from all faces.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
Well put. I commend your awareness and agree with your insights. Keep on keepin on
skoakes89 8 months ago
@skoakes89 Thanks man. Blessings to you. Safe travels. o/
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon I am only fourteen years and have made attaining more and more wisdom such an obsession that i feel as if i cannot function normally anymore. I am trying not to want to figure everything out but it has become such a habit i catchmy mind going in circles trying to figure out things that are impossible to figure out, i can no longer sleep at night. This causes me to be unbearably anxious and I just want to relax and not overthink things anymore but I don't know how to.any advice?
jaykaydee33 8 months ago
@jaykaydee33 I find that when you think about something too much, you exhaust yourself to the brink of fatigue, and in that exhaustion your mind will give you those answers. As for the impossible answers like paradoxes and things that cannot be answered while we are alive, it is best to accept them as what they are since those answers will not be obtained in your lifetime anyway. Try focusing more on the things that can be answered and only figure things out that can be figured out.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
@jaykaydee33 You sound like the kind of guy that questions everything around him. This is good. This is healthy. For when the mind stops learning new things, one truly dies. The young are often very impatient and their young minds try speedily to get at something or solve something. Instead of trying to find the answer so quickly, simply remain in that plane of thought and wade through it. Relax, and let these answers come to you. Pace yourself. Practice slowing down yourself and your thoughts.
RedCrescentDemon 8 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon thank you for your advice it seems like it will definitely help, :)) much love
jaykaydee33 7 months ago
@jaykaydee33 You too. Later bro.
RedCrescentDemon 7 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon yea i love hearing old guys talk about their past.. best thing EVER
pumitaproductions 7 months ago
@pumitaproductions yeah, it's like reading a good book.
RedCrescentDemon 7 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon
I'm a young person, and take it from me. I think life is a two sided coin in which young people know many things that old people seem to forget or bury with cynicism/guilt/feelings of responsibility, while old people have experienced many pains that young people are naive to. I think, especially in America where I live, that both groups don't give the other group enough credit for their wisdom. Life is a circle, not a line. Insights are gained and lost.
cont.
Npowell01 6 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon
cont.
And with regards to the acquisition of knowledge: There are many ways people like to do it, but the main two that I see (and they're on a continuum, like anything else) are this: Actively seeking it (ambition, which some people see as egotistical, calculating, because of its stressful nature) and letting it come to you (going with the flow, which some people see as lazy, because of its docile nature). Both methods are fine, though the persons behind the methods clash.
Npowell01 6 months ago
@Npowell01 True. Both methods are tried and proven to work. But it's possible that some forms of knowledge can only be acquired by one method or the other simply because of the way they're meant to be understood. Though when I think of the words "meant to be understood" I feel like I go away from the personal interpretation of that knowledge and within that interpretation can come a discovery in itself. I'm not sure if I'm right in saying that but I'm sure that both methods are tried and true.
RedCrescentDemon 6 months ago
I remember Alan Watts from when i was a kid in the early 70's. & now i am hearing this and going ...Yeah.
cabdunk 6 months ago
@cabdunk I know how you feel. Sometimes when I hear these kinds of things, I feel this warm feeling coming from the top of my head and spreading throughout my whole body. It's like not only does my mind grasp to understand it, my body reacts to it as well. It's like something more than understanding it. It's being it. I don't know. I'm probably just rambling.
RedCrescentDemon 6 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon You already have it, here, in this observation. It will unfold and give itself to you. Why seek for that which you are? Shared wisdom of older seekers is a finger pointing o the moon. But not the moon. Experience. It's not so much as looking for wisdom like a madman as it is in just being...being aware. In this, comes wisdom-awakening.
MrOhjok 5 months ago
@MrOhjok Precisely!!!! :) You've hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't have said it better myself.
RedCrescentDemon 5 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon lol there is zero wisdom, but like alan says "you cannot sway someone who is made up his mind", therefore that's your problem :D/ we are taught in school that everything goes in steps. Your mind's comprehension is not by step but the whole, and the whole is there right in front of you/right next to you/always there around/ it is you. Wisdom was never there, yet it is there at the same time. As you grow old, you found out how empty life is. That there is no wisdom, etc.
Chieu3 3 months ago
@Chieu3 The emptiness within everything. The nothingness. When you forget everything about it is when you truly understand it. It's like when Morihei Ueshiba had for a moment forgotten everything he ever learned in martial arts and came upon a new revelation because of it. No, I am not of a stubborn mind. I understand what you're saying. Wisdom is just what step by steppers call it. It was never there because it didn't need to be there for those that can see it without calling it anything.
RedCrescentDemon 3 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon what I mean is, "wisdom is a game" we are wise already. It's a mind game we play right now lol, talking to each other about our expressments. I know man, I understand you. I am you, you are me. IF you think not so, well then let the games continue. Life though is empty, the games made it fun. In my current game, I like to relax and not categorize myself. I do what comes to me, go to school, do what I am suppose to do. It gets boring sometimes, but that's part of the ride.
Chieu3 3 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon Man I type a hugh paragraph to you but deleted it... this is the new reply "I understand you, you understand me, you are me and I am you. We are playing a mind game right now lol, we both are in a cycle of reply and comments, but that is the ride of life, the fun. You categorized yourself into a "stuborn mind", it's ok and not ok at the same time. There is nothing you can do to force change on yourself. In the end, I prefer these games. It keep my life going, not the best
Chieu3 3 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon ahaha I didn't deleted it after all. You listen to Alan Watts but Alan Watts talks everything that comes to his mind, he is free of all bounds this "Alan Watts". You might have in mind that you are changed by all this, maybe it's just your mind. I don't know why I care for you enough to type all this. I don't know, really. Maybe of games, but I know that I can't change your mind. DAMNIT I am making everything boring.
Chieu3 3 months ago
@Chieu3 It doesn't matter where the source of the info comes from. It doesn't matter who says it. What matters is that one absorbs it because it is the same regardless of whoever emits it from one mind to another. The only difference is the personal, individual interpretation and mindset that the emitter is resonating from. You come to me emitting. You're sending me a message, and I'm listening. Other people do this too. That's all that matters. The transmitting and absorbing of information.
RedCrescentDemon 3 months ago
@Chieu3 Life is change and change is life. Change is inevitable. With all the different waves, vibes, and worlds people carry within them. It is inevitable that people change each other, every day. It could be over time, or it could be a single moment. It could be a short change, or a long term one. But change is always there.
RedCrescentDemon 3 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon It's time like these that I like to be honest and tell someone like you matters in this world, and tell myself that life matters. It does, but I do not feel that strong towards it for me at this moment. I may change, I really don;t know ahehe. I found out that no matter what someone says to me, I won't seem to care but only question myself using symbols in my head. It's not zen nor is it fun by any bits. I don't know who I am anymore, that's the point but I feel so empty...
Chieu3 3 months ago
@RedCrescentDemon Empty is my opinion of zen, I don't want it when I have it but I want it when I don't. Ahaha life is a wild goose chase, I already have it at the beginning and I don't have it at the same time symbolitically speaking. I guess that's why people of the past create this whole government stuff, they were bored xD. Simply bored, now we are bored with the politic and sometime stress too. It won't be long before the human race kill itself, but who really knows. Nulear Bomb FTW muahaha
Chieu3 3 months ago
@Chieu3 Emptiness is there and isn't there. I think when you stop looking for a concept and simply try to feel it. Try to be it. I think that's the easiest way to obtain that zen. Don't look for it because ti doesn't need to be found to have it. Just feel it. BE it. Be emptiness. Just be. And if the human race kills itself, better for the planet and this whole universe. We're all a bunch of eternally consuming parasites degenerating all life including our own.
RedCrescentDemon 3 months ago
Comment removed
spirituallylit 3 months ago
@spirituallylit I have no idea why your comment was removed, or who removed it. You or the uploader. But let me reply to you by saying that I believe listening is simply, patiently, absorbing information from someone who is emitting it.
Instead of eagerly waiting for the chance to express yourself, stop. Look. Listen. Feel the words, interpret them. Decide what to think about them. Then, when it is finally over, either you choose to agree or disagree.
Then you begin emitting.
RedCrescentDemon 3 months ago
Eh, way i see it. Best to just live life by the moment. It's good to think about stuff. I do it all the time. To the point that my thoughts haunt me and intensify moments before I go to sleep. Like loud voices they offer their arguments. But then there are times when your mind can feel blank and null, then something small happens, something insignificant, then I learn something from it. But I believe that true wisdom comes with age more than anything else.
RedCrescentDemon 11 months ago
Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule.
Buddha
PurposeOnEarth 11 months ago
And yet humans can partake of this infinity, realize the rapport between the human sould and the divine
TheMayito1000 1 year ago
But as many sages and masters have said: It is about realizing the folly of all this, it is to give it up, give up to wisdom and yet have the will to attain wisdom, surrender to truth and yet seek truth, surrender to virtue and yet will to seek virtue. It is paradoxical and beautiful at the same time and yet it leads to the destiny of every human. And well of course we can't know the absolute, only the absolute can know it's own infinite wisdom, love and truth.
TheMayito1000 1 year ago
There is a self made trap when seeking for enlightment, which is an obssesion for being illumined, people desperatly try to prove their worth, desperate to proveto to the master, to the universe and to themselves that they are worthy because they are willing to suffer enough (many times they will deny it, talk about the unconscious). For some reason they are also expecting to feel something special or a kind of signal that let them know that they have achieved enlightment.
TheMayito1000 1 year ago
Nice words of wisdom and more.
AlgisKemezys 1 year ago
i am merely perplexed by my own existence. life is a paradox--an enigma that starts and ends with two anomalies which can only be within the realm of their own coexistence. and we who are aware of this have the freedom to adopt whatever perspective of this reality we so choose. and we also can change our minds at our own will.
i believe reality is like a sphere. we can never see its entire surface. but we can move to reveal its different perspectives. the truth is we can't know the whole truth.
jeremyfrancis 1 year ago 19
@jeremyfrancis You have truly glimpsed what only the sages have seen. You must now try to maintain this wisdom without either grasping or ego. In my experience this is far more difficult. Namaste my friend, Bobba.
yinyangnature 1 year ago 4
Wish I could hear Alan's voice when I get confronted with particular situations, but then again perhaps I shouldn't be so attached to his teaching style. But maybe I shouldn't be so attached to wanting to not be attached to it. Oh I give up, I will just let it be and let go
matthew376 1 year ago 7
@matthew376 Indeed. Not getting attached to attachment, and not grasping onto grasping, are the most difficult realisations to realise. I often wish I had the nature of a wild bird and could unquestionably act on any moment without hesitation or analysis. To live a life uncalculated must be the ultimate attainment. But how are we ever to escape the double bind of 'just letting it be and let go, in the hope our lives will somehow improve? Of course this is only a rhetorical question...
yinyangnature 1 year ago 7
but what about getting attached to not getting attached to things.
topbluffa1 1 year ago
@topbluffa1
Attachment causes suffering because we cannot always have the things to which we are attached, or because our attachment causes us to act irrationally. How can either case spring out of attachment to non-attachment?
However you answer, whoever is attached to being unattached is running in the hamster wheel and will eventually get tired and stop.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
The restriction they seek to escape is the law of identity. The freedom they seek is freedom from the fact that an A will remain an A, no matter what their tears or tantrums—that water will not run uphill, no matter what comforts they could gain if it did, and if they want to lift it to the roof of a skyscraper, they must do it by a process of thought and labor, in which the nature of an inch of pipe line counts, but their feelings do not.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
Do you want to know why we needlessly. It's because as human beings we are willing to dissolve the absolutes of reason, logic, matter, existence, reality, and to erect upon that plastic fog a single holy absolute: their Wish.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
Typical nihlistic mental gymnastics. Comparing rationalists who recognize that reality needs to be perceived for what it is by means of our mind and ability to reason to people who think the world is flat is not only absurd, but insulting. He claims that we can't perceive a reality undistorted by out subconscious, which only means that he is unwilling to perceive a reality undistorted by his feelings. He provides no reasoning whatsoever as to why we are not the "I"
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
Do more reading into Zen, I think the more you learn to more you'll find that it dovetails beautifully with rationality.
If you want reasoning as to why an illusion is an illusion, think a little more deeply about what individual separateness means when taken to its logical extremes. Eventually the concept undoes itself.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog I have, and I see nothing particularly compelling.
Stop speaking in ambiguity. Please explain exactly what happens when individual separateness is taken to an "extreme"
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
Well you tell me, what is the most extreme conception of separateness that you can think of?
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog The independent mind that recognizes no authority higher than its own and no value higher than its judgment of truth.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
And on what basis does the absolute authority of the sovereign mind stand? And how would you define the nature of this mind in relation to the world of sensory experience and of thought?
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog That stems from the root of epistemology, but also from the fact that to live, we must think and use our minds. That is our basic tool of survival, that or live on a deficit and rely on the generosity of others. But you still haven't told me precisely what you think are the negative consequence of this.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@WSWarthog But do tell me this, but what standard do you reject individual sovereignty?
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
"That stems from the root of epistemology, but also from the fact that to live, we must think and use our minds."
In terms of our current discussion the former basis is the one we should focus on, I think. So would it be fair to formulate your position as essentially solipsistic? That is to say, since it is the case that the only thing of which we can be sure to exist is the self, that we should consider the individual mind to be of primary importance?
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog Nope, it is not solipsistic. I am Aristotelean, and as such accept that everything in the universe follows the axiom of existence, namely the law of identity. This means, in its most simplest form, that existence exists and that you know it. In its actual form, it means the following-existence is identity, consciousness is identification. So will the tool of identification be your mind or someone else's?
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
Ok so we can at least establish that there is some reality external to the self, and that the self can have some sort of relationship with that reality (in this case the relationship is one of identification). Of-course, for any individual the tool for exercising this relationship cannot be anything other than his own mind. But this prompts me into another question, mainly on the nature of the "tool" and what it is exactly. Is there any better definition for the mind other than
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog It is indeed very difficult to write on such matters within 500 characters, but to put it bluntly, the tool specifically is the faculty of reason. This is the faculty that perceives, identifies and integrates the material provided by his senses. The task of his senses is to give him the evidence of existence, but the task of identifying it belongs to his reason, his senses tell him only that something is, but what it is must be learned by his mind.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
...that thing which identifies reality?
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog All thinking is a process of identification and integration. Man perceives a blob of color; by integrating the evidence of his sight and his touch, he learns to identify it as a solid object; he learns to identify the object as a table; he learns that the table is made of wood; he learns that the wood consists of cells, that the cells consist of molecules, that the molecules consist of atoms.
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
That seems like a fair description of the relationship between reason and the sensory world. But the mind in its totality is not the faculty of reason alone, so if we want to address the question of whether or not the a person is separate from the perceived reality or one with it we will need to do this in terms of a complete conception of the mind rather than a partial picture which includes only the perception and processing of sensory information.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog Well, to put it simply, the mind is sovereign because the mind makes independent judgement. There are of course limits to your knowledge and mine, but that doesn't mean its better to surrender your sovereignty completely. You do indeed understand my position well, but I have to understand what you mean by being "separate" v. "being one with everything".
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
"I have to understand what you mean by being "separate" v. "being one with everything""
Well, to be honest I have no idea. As far as I can see the two concepts eventually meet at the same place.
"the mind is sovereign because the mind makes independent judgement." - ah, but does it really? Of-course we may assume that each person's mind works without any immediate interference to influence on its pattern of thought, but everyone's thinking is influenced over a long period of...
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog I never said without influence. Independence does not mean using your mind in a complete vacuum. That's pretty much a straw man fallacy. However the mind comes to its own conclusions volitionally and on its own terms. If you think otherwise, tell me if you believe everything everyone has ever told you. Your consciousness is your consciousness- if there were any interconnectedness, why do still form our own conclusions?
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@WSWarthog So if you have no idea what you mean, what point are you trying to argue?
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
...time by other people's opinions, new knowledge that the mind itself did not generate, the conditions that it finds itself in, its past experiences and so on. So at least it seems to me as if there's some level of interconnectedness between different people's consciousnesses and between people and the sensory world, even if it doesn't seem to be the case at this point that we can say "everything is one".
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
But I don't want to be side-tracked too far. As far as I understand your position now, the basis for viewing the self as separate from others and from the universe is because of the necessity for a person to situate himself within the context of the various aspects of his life (daily, intellectual, spiritual if you go for that) in a way that allows him to make valuable judgements and that this requires discernment.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
I agree that thinking for yourself is important (simply on the basis that it can't be done for you). But it's not clear to me how this can be the basis for the sovereignty of the mind, by which I mean to consider it to be completely separate on the basis of this function you described through which we individually interpret and define reality.
I'll consider any further response and respond tomorrow.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@GoingGoingGalt
If we follow our discussion through to its logical conclusion and it becomes apparent that the case for separateness is the stronger, I'll concede the point.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
"It seems that i know that i know. What i would like to see is the I that knows me when I know that I know that I know." One of my favorite quotes of all time.
pointlessaccount100 1 year ago
I loved the 3 monkeys with modern devices, what is the source of this image?
conceitarturo 1 year ago
@conceitarturo I simply Goggled "three wise monkeys" under the image setting. Alias YinYangNature
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
there is no problem, but just by labeling that something is a problem, you make it...a problem.
Thesoulofalion 1 year ago 3
@Thesoulofalion Indeed. It is an affront to our ego when things are other than the way the ego desires things to be. Hence, we only suffer because we are unwilling to accept and we are unable to understand. We should also have great compassion for others who are unable or unwilling to experience this fundamental reality. May all beings be released from suffering.
yinyangnature 1 year ago 2
@Thesoulofalion EXACTLY! From "The Power of Now"-E.Tolle I began to practice re-difining some of my old phrase/word meanings. Instead of calling something a 'problem' i use the phrase 'life situation' these little gems can be very helpful/useful on this 'journey'
Love - Mamma D
to: yinyangnature - thanks f/t vids :)
lspmd2 1 year ago
Naming is abstraction, there are no words in silence!
elvissweet 1 year ago
@Thesoulofalion Sometimes you have to label to move around the idea. Know not to label but to never forget as a tool for building bridges for others to learn and for the thought to be more concrete
blackvertex 1 year ago
Lovely first vid of the day :o)
enjoy your day :o)
GuildF40 1 year ago
@GuildF40 That's so nice to hear. May you always know peace on the Path. (Alias YinYangNature)
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
From Mr. Watts' description of the Za-zen state (not thinking; rather, perceiving only at a sensory level, and responding to sense, rather than conscious thought), perhaps the best common example, albeit imperfect, is the experience of driving an automobile along an accustomed route, perhaps to work. We drive, and are occasionally jarred to consciousness by distractions such as traffic signals, but arrive having paid little conscious attention while operating a large machine in traffic. =^[.]^=
Raycheetah 1 year ago
@Raycheetah I remember recounting the same experience to my friends some years ago. Some of them accused me of being a hazard on the road, but I assured them my sub-conscience (or cerebellum) was capable of performing these functions without my awareness. After all it organises my digestion, cell division, heart beat & gland secretions; surely my trivial day to day stuff wouldn't be any great challenge? Maybe we could learn to live out our entire life in this way? Now that really would be Zen!
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
@TaoFAQ Ask how many of them think about the lyrics when they sing a favorite song. =^[.]^=
Raycheetah 1 year ago
@Raycheetah In the tradition of Watts, it maybe better to ask them how they grow their hair or how they colour the sky blue ;-)
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
great post..thank you...=)
alonealotta 1 year ago
@alonealotta Thank you. (Alias YinYangNature)
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
To bad that the audio is so poor quality...
Thank you for posting these :)
Rip0k 1 year ago
@Rip0k Yes, the audio isn't the best, but I thought the lecture so profound that it would be a crime not to post it.
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
Brilliant, as are your other videos.
gregjhill 1 year ago
@gregjhill Thank you very much for your support!
TaoFAQ 1 year ago
I love your Alan Watts videos, would you consider him one of your favorite philosophers?
FlipCube 1 year ago 5
@FlipCube Thank you. Other than my friends and family, no one has ever influenced my thinking more than Alan Watts.
yinyangnature 1 year ago 7