Stockhausen: "Kontra-Punkte" 2/2

[pulsarnrg]

Get Stockhausen in Fruity Loops :D



[DangTheWang12]

Charles Ives 

[mehtabb1]

Thanks for the descriptions, really helpful. More people should include analysis with videos I think it would be really cool to watch.

[musoderelict]

Sorry, but the score isn't synchronized with the playing.

[Superape613]

I loathe the way I can't listen to a piece of serial music without seeing one ignorant fool complaining about how it doesn't conform to his antiquated idea of what music should sound like. It's ridiculous.

[AyumuVanguard]

@NevinJarek and @alexandergreenb, have you guys even looked at how serialism is composed? OK, so it's not mathematical. Can you compose it without doing operations on matrices? Of course not. Let's stop arguing over semantics here. I'm getting bored.

[AyumuVanguard]

@NevinJarek All music is pretty much mathematical. At the time of that comment I thought of serialism as particularly mathematical, which it is to some extent or another, but "musical ideas" works well too (although I've never been able to figure out when an idea becomes "extra-musical.")

[alexandergreenb]

@AyumuVanguard This is a categorical error. While music may invoke mathematical principles, and while one can certainly arrange music mathematically, number and pattern is simply an aid in organizing music, just like it's an aid in organizing space or language. A fugue, with its numerically defined structure, is no more "mathematical" than a novel with its numerically defined structure (3 or 5-part formal structure; introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, denouement).

[alexandergreenb]

@AyumuVanguard Any form of organization - from musical composition to housekeeping - is going to be, to some degree, "mathematical," but all this means is that we use numbers and patterns to keep track of structural elements.

[AyumuVanguard]

I can't read French very much (yet,) but from what you said I think he's saying that because it's serial music and it's based on mathematical ideas and program music is defined as music based on extra-musical ideas. In my opinion by extra-music ideas they mean plays, operas, operettas/musicals, movies, etc. and by that they mean that it's in the movie (or whatnot) and you can put whatever ideas you want into pure music.

[NevinJarek]

@AyumuVanguard But how is serialism based on mathematical ideas? It's just perceptual, its not about 'transposing' numbers and geometry into a score like Xenakis, serialism and dodecaphonism were born as some sort of antithesis to the exhausted tonality. It was conceived as listening to something without a key, and later without a uniform texture. The fact that the methodology is strict doesnt mean it's mathematical. All the conceptualization was musical and perceptual, wasnt it?

[omgtkseth]

Notes that are only related to themselves.. they are program notes? How come...

[dalecampbl7]

i don't know what to make of this stuff.

[threviatghei]

thanks a lot for uploading and for the explanations.

[sameusebius]

Merci pour les explications. Elles sont bienvenues pour une personnes qui ne connaît que très peu l'univers de la musique d'après 1950.