BMW SauberF1.06 Nordschleife Lap on rFactor

[RoidInjected]

This vid is only great thanks to the first 30 seconds and the engine sound. The rest...

[Warlock2212]

the hand's not move^^, where to get rFactor? :S

[Vkup]

Good game, but I prefer the PS3 game f1 championship edition, much better graphics (on my full hd screen) and better sound to. But I think the gameplay of rfactor is better (didnt play it)

[Jermainesmit21]

Mm i did also a 5:55.751. This was in my second try on the track really hardly know the track.. have no setup so i think i can do easy in a 4 min

[tomwitcomb87]

Mike I've read your argument with the uneducated twit and I think I ought to put things into perspective.

#1: I lapped this track/car combo last night with an xbox 360 controller in 5:46.9

#2: I Qualified on pole ahead of you at full throttle in November.

Therefore I've concluded that I'm categorically without question fastest driver of all time. Amen.

Seriously though, cool video, never realised you were into rFactor, thought the only one was Steve P who plays... NASCAR 2003... ugh.

[11221122112211]

u should paint your helmet;)

[ArosaMike]

Well....My real helmet is painted.....never could quite work out how to paint helmets in rFactor :P

[Thenitrojunkie]

Great! What is your Topspeed on the straight?

[BIBILOUK]

good job...but i think i beat u..well im sure in fact i did sthing like 6min00 or less. With a porsche 917k from the le mans 70 mod (LM 70).i'll put up a video soon.

[ArosaMike]

Yeah I'm first to admit it's not the fastest lap. I was trying to go for a vague bit of realism due to the fact Heidfeld wasn't going to go for absolute broke. Will have to have a look at the LeMans classic mod. Sounds good :)

[d0ubl3sh0t]

can you race in rfactor?

[RIPPERTON]

excellent 10 times better than F1C

[Leoison]

a very good animation!

[pozzowon]

well congratulations, you made about the same unoficcial time that heidfeld did

according to road & track he did something between 5:56 and 5:57

after all, that's a real car and a crash would be real

[bumeyes]

Easy to see why this track isnt used for F1 anymore. Its like a high speed Monaco circuit.

[mattloque]

I can't help but get annoyed at all the petty arguing on this page.

Here's my opinion:

F1 drivers are overpaid, and some of them (Albers, Webber) don't deserve their seats. But there is also some real talent.

rFactor is brilliant. It's a shame that there's no collision detection on the wheels, not arsed about the hands not moving because it really doesn't matter. This Sim shits on everything Sony has ever made, and it is the perfect replacement for the aging Grand Prix 4. Buy it.

[Joe22300]

They are overpaid, but unlike footballers at least work for it, like losing 1 stone in mass during an average 90 minute race.

[bgnw2004]

i personally think Webber is an amazing driver - he has always been unluck though with underperforming cars

[jgorenc]

You must try the new 2007 model by ISI on rfactor - net

[ArosaMike]

Yeah it's awesome isn't it. Serious improvement over the 06 car :)

[jacoby81]

LOL the hands dont even move!

[ArosaMike]

Yeah...it's silly that. No idea why they never bothered to model them. You don't see them in the cockpit view anyway :P This game is all about the physics and not so much about graphical details. Shame that Sony can't integrate the physics of this to their PS3 F1 game graphics. That would be good!

[masterali16]

is this fake or what?

well, no matter what it is it seems that heidfeld doesnt master the nordschleife, i would beat him easily on my playstation

[ArosaMike]

Well of course it's fake. It's a computer game?!!! Beat him on your Playstation? Riiiiight. And I'm better than Tiger Woods cause I can win Tiger Woods Golf! Whatever you say.

[GermanCol]

Nice job....how u make the video??? I have fraps but only record 30 seconds.

[ArosaMike]

I discovered that rFactor can output replays to video file itself! It's in the replay options.

[raikkonen8]

everyones trying to be a formula 1 driver. honestly what youre doing in this game is impossible in real life.

[ArosaMike]

Evidently not though seeing as they just did it!

[raikkonen8]

well whatever makes you happy. ive played countless games too and they dont match what you do in real life. youre trying to make and recreate your car go around every corner and make it look like what you see on TV like fernando and kimi does.

[ArosaMike]

Perhaps you live in a cave, but BMW Sauber and Nick Heidfeld drove the 2006 Formula One car round the Nordschleife last Saturday. Just do a search here on YouTube and you'll find countless videos of it! Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you or something?

[topaloglu321]

nice lap..Thanks..I compared with Heidfeld's :)

[schuf1]

Heidfeld did 8.30 laps today. He had to slow down on every single lap for journalists to take pictures. He only managed 275 km/h at the end of the long straight. But Theissen said they weren't going for times.

[schuf1]

Nice, though I'd prefer the REAL footage from today.

Any videos of Heidfeld taking on the Nürburgring Nordschleife?

[gumbyada]

i like how his hands dont move

[ncekkk]

don't you know every formula 1 driver has telekinesis??? it's one of the requirements for an f1 license. it's actually the main reason why so many people are not qualified.

[raikkonen8]

heeey i guess youre qualified man

[ncekkk]

raikonnen8, I was joking about the telekinesis part... :D

[ArosaMike]

If by telekinesis you mean 'has lots of money' then yes. You're right! I have raced F1 drivers they're nothing hugely special....just very rich! Talent sadly has very little to do with being an F1 driver. If it did, 90% of the grid would be sitting at home watching it on their telly.

[ncekkk]

ArosaMike, not all F1 driver come from a wealthy family and they are special because they have the license to drive an F1 car. I think talent plays a part in F1 but the car you're driving plays a much more major role these days.

[ArosaMike]

Name me one current driver apart from Hamilton who didn't have parents who paid for their entire karting career. It most definitely is about wealth. The super license is just a way for the FIA to get more money. It's some silly amount to get one and virtually no one ever fails it. I mean Ide even got one and it must have been fairly obvious then how bad he was!

[ncekkk]

i think everyone f1 driver who started karting will have their parents or sponsors pay for it since they can't afford it anyway.

and saying all F1 driver nothing special is just stupid. do you think you can drive better?

[ArosaMike]

I know I can drive better - I've raced Liuzzi and Doornbos and beat Doornbos! They have talent yes, but there are thousands of people who are good enough to drive an F1 car. It is purely down to money. A season in FRenault is about £200-250,000. If you do the Euro series it's double that. If you move to F3 it's about £500-750,000 a season. Go into GP2: £2million a season. In all of these 99% of the drivers are part funded to the tune of several tens of thousands by their parents.

[ncekkk]

I saw your karting video and as far as i'm concerned you didn't beat Doornbos. Here's my reasoning:

1. Doornbos qualified in 2nd place you qualified in 6th place so he's obviously faster than you

2. you're only slightly faster than a girl

3. you didn't have the pace of the front runner. in fact the only reason you finished in fourth was because Doornbos and the other guy in front of you crashed

[ArosaMike]

1. Qualifying was done by drawing names from a hat....hence why I was in 6th: My fastest lap was 0.1s off his.

2. The girl finished last

3. I got stuck behind someone for half the race and as soon as I cleared him I reduced a gap of about 5s to about 0.5s. Doornbos did indeed crash yes....but did I...no....hence I beat him. He made a mistake, I didn't.

[ncekkk]

you finishing in a higher place than Doornbos was simply luck and no skill involved so nothing to brag and be proud of. However if you still insist you're a better driver than him, then Olivier Panis is the best F1 driver of all time because he won the 96 Monaco GP(hardest track in F1), in a Ligier, an inferior car to the front-runners. he also 'defeated' Schumacher, Hill, Vileneuve and Hakkinen who altogether has won 11 driver championship. they all had an accident by the way.

[ArosaMike]

No....obviously no skill in being one of 12 drivers out of 20,000 applicants to make it to the final or be one of only 9 who actually finished the race because the rest crashed out. There is very much a skill in not crashing. Why do you think Raikonnen always used to blow his engine...because he drives like an idiot. If he knew how to pace himself he'd have won about 2 championships.

[ncekkk]

doesn't matter what you said. Panis finished higher than those 4 so based on your reasoning Panis > Schu, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen. Raikonnen doesn't drive like an idiot. all the engine failure was because it's unreliable. even McLaren admitted it in 2006.

[ArosaMike]

I have friends who work for Mercedes Ilmor who make the engines. Raikonnen would run the engine to max revs for the whole of qualifying. Something they had told him would damage the engine. He ignored them and hence his engine would give up. Why else was it that his used to blow up and Montoya would finish the race?!

[ArosaMike]

I don't really understand your argument tbh. At the end of the day....I'm not saying I belong in F1.....my point in the first place was that F1 drivers are not some kind of superhuman. They get there because of some talent but mainly money. You basically proved that by saying Panis wasn't that special. How do you explain he got there?! At the end of the day I beat Doornbos fair and square and I can't be bothered to argue with you about that!

[ncekkk]

well it's based on your reasoning that since you beat Doornbos, you're better than him. I merely make the same connection with Panis because it was the same situation, eg. Panis finished, the others crashed and hence Panis > Schu, Hill, Villeneuve and Mika. Try beating him one on one in the same car. that's fair.

[ArosaMike]

Well I was in the same car! LOL You couldn't have asked for a better comparison since all the karts were identical. If you really want an exact comparison I think my lap time was something like 32.74 and his was something like 32.65. We're both a similar weight and both had cameras on our karts. The guy who won was about 60kilos as opposed to me 75. In karts on that track it was probably worth around 0.5-0.7s a lap, hence he did a 31.9 if I remember right.

[ncekkk]

so Doornbos is faster than you which means he's better. case closed.

[ArosaMike]

And Schumacher was always always faster than everyone else and never slower. 0.1s is nothing especially in a race. Look at the results of any kart/car race and you'll see that peoples times are all over the place. You evidently are incredibly ignorant when it comes to racing....but then I don't blame you because you're probably not involved in the industry at all or race yourself. I don't think there's any point in continuing this. Believe what you want....it's fine.

[ncekkk]

yeah mock me just because you're losing the argument. you weigh the same as Doornbos, has the same car but he's still faster than you. you're just sour because you think you're better than him and i've proven it otherwise. well, believe what you want to believe.

[ncekkk]

Oh and 0.1s means everything in F1 or racing. Why else would the teams spend millions just to cut down the time by a hundredth of seconds? because they're idiots? no because it can mean the difference between winner and loser. i suggest you check your fact before posting.

[ArosaMike]

So you're honestly saying that every single F1 driver put in the same car would set exactly the same time? I think not. On another occasion and a different track it's highly likely I might have been 0.1s faster than Doornbos. If I was 0.5-1s adrift then it would have been a different matter as that's a huge gap. But anyway....Doornboss isn't necesserally the fastest F1 driver at all. I never once said I thought I was 'the best driver evaahha!!!11!1! OMFG'.

[ncekkk]

where have I said that? different driver set different time on the same car because of skill difference. you're just saying that up to save your face. face it, you're not better than Doornbos. and you're acting like a 6 year old who's balloon is being taken away from him...

[ncekkk]

oh and based on your logic, Panis is the greatest F1 driver. but I still think Fangio, Senna or Prost as the best driver.

[ncekkk]

oh just in case you didn't get what i mean, you set slower times despite having the same weight and car as Doornbos which makes you less skillful, hence worse driver. easy enough to understand for you?

[ArosaMike]

Of course F1 teams look for every possible tenth. It then means they can get away with a slower driver in a fast car because the car makes up for the drivers deficit. As I said before, the whole point of my original comment was that F1 drivers aren't that special. There are a few that are, but many who aren't and are only there because of their money. There are guys I race who would absolutely have pissed all over DB and Liuzzi.

[ncekkk]

well the guy who won the race is probably gonna win against Dornboos one on one in the same car. but it's not gonna be YOU... get it??

[ncekkk]

doesn't mean a crap driver can win in a fast car either. having a fast car doesn't guarantee a win although it makes it easier provided the driver has the skill. try putting heiki kovalainen into the F2007 or the MP4/22 right now. chances are he won't win now because he doesn't have the experience/skill yet.

[ArosaMike]

Jesus man. You seriously have some serious issues. I'm guessing you're perhaps a bit jealous maybe....I don't know. What you actually think means sod all to me really. I'm the one that raced him, I had a lot of fun, and I intend to continue my career both as a hobby and as seriously as I can. If it really troubles you....go and do some motorsport yourself. Or perhaps you'd rather just sit at your computer all day. Each to his own.

[ncekkk]

jealous? not even far. i'll be jealous when you get to formula1. just because i don't race doesn't mean that i don't know shit about racing. you think too highly of yourself. and talking shit about me won't make you a better driver.

[ArosaMike]

I've said about 4 times now and it was the whole point of my comment in the first place that to get into F1 you need money not talent. I wasn't saying that I'm the next Schumi, I was saying that, the fact that DB was beaten by a load of people illustrated he wasn't some super talented driver. If I had enough money then yes...I could get to F1. Hell...there was some bloke who paid Minardi a load of dosh a few years back to be their 3rd driver. He was 11s slower than the other two.

[ncekkk]

strange... i thought you knew about Lewis Hamilton. He basically didn't pay a single cent for his F1 career after he met Ron Dennis. I guess that's a mistake in your stupid argument. you can get to formula 1 with enought talent and skill (which i'm assuming is what you lack) and little money.

[ArosaMike]

And the fact his Dad paid out about £5k a year working two jobs for the first half of his karting career until he was picked up by Dennis was no money was it? Furthermore....Dennis was a family friend! If you also want to pick him.....he was the ONLY driver in GP2 last year to have a free drive. Every single other driver had to find their own money....all £2m of it. Sorry mate...but your argument is disintigrating rapidly.

[ncekkk]

no my argument still hold because you said Diniz and Ide paid to be in formula 1. Lewis did NOT pay fot his drive at F1(McLaren sponsored him get it??). I get the feeling you're just posting him to hide your talent/skill(or lack of it). A frog in the well doesn't know the ocean i guess...

[ArosaMike]

LOL. You realise you're now arguing against yourself. You've just proved my point that the other drivers aren't as good as Hamilton. They paid their way there due to a lack of talent. He got there because of his talent.

[ArosaMike]

I find it crazy that you're arguing this over a driver who completely stumbled into motorsport through his wealth. DB was a tennis pro until 16 when he went to a GP as VIP. He asked a few teams who he should sign up with to get to F1 and then brought himself a Formula Lotus Vaxhaull. Next thing we know, he's in F1! I'll name a few others...Diniz (Around £2m a year to Minardi), Ide (Put in SA by Honda), and of course good old Karthakyen who is Williams test driver because his family own Tata!!

[ArosaMike]

Do you really think that if (lets say me as you think so lowly of my talent....although I'd love to see what you're like) I turned up knocking at the door of the Fortec Formula Renault team with £250,000 asking for a drive and the only other driver knocking on their door was last years winner of Formula BMW....only with not a penny to his name....hmmm...who do you think they'll take. Me. How the hell can they make any money when they would need to pay out £250+ for the car etc?

[ncekkk]

you claim to have won against Doornbos and can drive better than him. I've stated that i don't race but that doesn't mean i don't know shit about racing. and you claim i was ignorant so i'm just pointing out certain things to you. anyway bottom line is you're slower by 0.1s/lap than Doornbos despite having the same car and environment. you even stated it yourself.

[ArosaMike]

I never said I was 0.1s a lap slower. My overall fastest lap was 0.1s slower. This means nothing in a race. It's consistency that matters.

[ncekkk]

nope. it's average lap that matters. no point being consistent if you're always 1 sec behind. anyway get to F1 (in maybe 5 years from now) and i'll admit you have talent/skill (or maybe lots of money). or better still beat 4 F1 champions in an inferior car (like Panis) with or without any accident involved. with your logic that'll make you > Schu, Mika, Hill, Villeneuve combined.

[ArosaMike]

Yeah OK...that's just being silly. Of course being consistantly slow is not good, but say I do 32.4, 32.45, 32.4, 32.3, 32.3, 32.4 and Doornbos does 32.7, 32.8, 32.1, 32.7, 32.8. That's what I meant. You're opinion is so ill informed it's a joke. You appear to have no idea how the motoracing industry works. How you can even argue against me is a joke considering I both work in Motorsport and race in it! Go away and play Second Life or something.

[ncekkk]

Hahaha... ill-informed? you stated that being consistent is everything didn't you? and again you're accusing me of being ignorant when i was the one who pointed out your mistake... you're really acting like a 6 year old who's balloon was taken from him. And i'm not the one who posted video of me playing an F1 game and claiming to be better driver aren't I? me, get a life? more like you grow up...

[ArosaMike]

Haha....I posted this video for general interest relating to the fact Heidfeld was going to drive round the 'ring. You'll find a lot of racing drivers use simulators to practice. I never once claimed when I posted this that I was better than anyone. You're the one who was set on starting some silly argument!

[ncekkk]

WTF. that's bullshit. look above. I asked if you think you can drive better and you said you did. and now you're taking back your word, accuse me of starting this crap and changing the subject??? that's just pathetic... you're the one who started this shit by saying F1 is all about money and if you don't have enough money, you can't drive in F1...

[ArosaMike]

".. you're the one who started this shit by saying F1 is all about money and if you don't have enough money, you can't drive in F1..."

Which by your own examples is true.

[ncekkk]

not true. you still haven't refuted my statement about Lewis Hamilton. admit it. you're losing this argument. OH SHIITTTT!!! is he going to call me ignorant again??? it's happened every time i have the upper hand...

[ArosaMike]

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. I presume you've taken to hitting random keys on your keyboard in desperation?

[ncekkk]

well you really haven't come with any justification why Lewis Hamilton is in F1 since you said F1 is for those people who pay. DAMMITT!! here it goes again. He's probably gonna call me ignorant because he couldn't come with an answer and since he works in the racing industry and i don't even race...

[ncekkk]

and i wonder if you really work in the motor racing industry because of the stupid mistakes you said. can i have a video of you and your friend at Ilmor or the McLaren technology centre (and while you're at it get me a signature of Alonso, it may worth some money to fund my F1 dream). I'm guessing you're gonna make a lame excuse though. (Oh NO, no camera's allowed) well, i'm not hoping much from you anyway.

[ArosaMike]

1. Mercedes HPE is based at Brixworth Northampton not the McLaren Tech Centre and was called Ilmor until 2 years ago when Mercedes brought them out. Alonso hasn't visited yet. I have an old fax back home from Coulthard though. LOL

2. My friend works there and not me. I did do a summer placement there. Another friend, Alex Morgan, races for Manor in Formula Renault UK.

3. I work for Big Thunder at the moment as a driving instructor.

4. I am a team leader in my Formula Student Team UBRacing.

[ncekkk]

yuppp another lame excuse... you're probably gonna say i'm ignorant next anyway

[ArosaMike]

Lame excuse for what? Are you talking about what I said about Mercedes etc? Look it all up mate. Any photos I linked to you'd just rubbish. If you go on to our Teams website you'll see a picture of me. Can't get much better proof than that.

[ncekkk]

well explain Lewis Hamilton... so where does he fit into the equation. i find it strange everytime i brought a new point across, you refused to explain it. maybe i'm just ignorant about racing, but hey, i'm the one who pointed it to you that 0.1s does mean something. so i'm probably not so ignorant after all. please enlighten me.

[ArosaMike]

I wasn't going to bother going on about the 0.1 secs, but as you keep bringing it up......results for the national MSA ICA Karting this season: Rd 1:

1. Oliver ROWLAND 50.26

2. Jordan CHAMBERLAIN 50.31

3. Sam JENKINS 50.49

4. James THORP 50.50

So...that's the top 4 separated by .3 s. This is the premier league of karting and if I'd have been 2nd if I'd have been 0.1s slower than the guy in 1st. Furthermore....ever heard of consistancy?

[champ1alonso]

LOL Pedro Diniz never drove for Minardi, you mean Forti or Arrows or Sauber not Minardi

[ArosaMike]

Yup....your right. My bad LOL. Guess even Minardi had standards then! LOL

[champ1alonso]

LOL, yeah, I don't know who this guy is who's arguing with you but I've driven a Formula Ford (I know it's not F1 but hey...) and I agree with you. Once you get a few laps under your belt and start to learn how the car works then it's not difficult to get a good rhythm going and some good lap times. But I wouldn't know that unless I'd tried it.

[ArosaMike]

Great fun isn't it! The thing I think that holds a lot of people back is the ability to 'unplug your brain'. Overcoming the thoughts of hitting the wall at 100mph if you get it wrong overrides a lot of peoples ability to go quick. To find the final few tenths you HAVE to try going flat in places that you really think you shouldn't :P

[davidrocke]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think in some places you can always find an extra tenth if you look past the corner and try and ignore the barriers!

[ArosaMike]

I would say that in that situation, yes he was better than them. He stayed on track....the didn't. Hakinnen was great at this. He was never a stunningly fast driver, but he was incredibly consistent.

[ncekkk]

oh and Panis started the race in 14th position. he was able to overtake 13 cars to win most of which were superior. you started in 6th against rookies and one F1 driver but couldn't win and you still think you belong in F1? wake up. you've been dreaming long enough.

[ArosaMike]

At what point did I say I belonged in F1? The other people weren't rookies either and neither am I. The guy that won was 2nd in the British National Super1 championship 3 years ago, the guy who finished behind me is an endurance karter and the two in front both work for a karting company. I race in a National 2 Stroke championship as well. As I pointed out....my 6th place was because of drawing names from a hat. It had nothing to do with times.

[ncekkk]

you said you can drive better than Doornbos and since Doornbos has been in F1, it implies you're fit to be in F1. So if you're good why can't you win the race with only 5 people in front of you? Panis did it with 13.

[ArosaMike]

LOL.....well you obviously know very little about racing my friend. It's possible that someone like Schumacher could have won that race from 6th, but it's not easy. On a street circuit where one touch of the barriers meant you were out, and only 10 laps in the race, it doesn't really compare to the wide racetracks F1 has and the 70 odd laps they race over. If that race had been 70laps long....then I could possibly have won it yes.

[ncekkk]

I'm not mentioning Schu. Schu could win it from 6th because he had a competitive car. it's Panis i'm talking about and from 13th in Monaco (Overtaking is hard because it's narrower than most track). and guess what Monaco is a street circuit so my argument still holds.

[ArosaMike]

But it's about 60-70 laps! He had all that time to overtake and/or wait for people to crash out. I had 10laps! LOL. It's impossible to compare because he had 7x the time to overtake. If my race had been 1 lap longer, I'd have been challenging 2nd and 3rd for their positions.

[davidrocke]

ncekk, You've made it obvious that you really don't have a clue. Fastest lap doesn't mean best driver. But then it would be unfair to expect someone who has never raced would understand that 0.1 between two drivers could be something as simple as slightly differing tyre pressures. On that day, Doornbos was beaten by Mike. There drivers all over the world who beat F1 drivers. Look into Schumachers results in the World Kart Championship.

[davidrocke]

In any case, I don't see any videos of you beating anyone, let alone F1 drivers. If you are jealous that Mike can drive better than you, go and get a kart or something.

[davidrocke]

Oh, and good luck! I'm sure you'll need a lot of practice!

[ncekkk]

WTF... did people even read what i wrote? or is Mike calling me ignorant actually gets reflected to anyone who read it... oh i don't need any practice because i do NOT race. but some things is very obvious in racing. you're accusing i'm jealous of Mike?? LOL not unless he's in F1 earns shitloads of money...

[davidrocke]

So why spend so much time criticising what other people manage to do with their lives? Mike beat an f1 driver fair and square, I think that is something he should be proud of. If you want to have a dig at him, maybe you should first prove you could do better.

[ncekkk]

just answer this question for me then. let's say on that race there's someone who laps 3sec slower per lap. now you know Doornbos crashed but let's say this guy made it to the finish line, is he a better driver than Doornbos? please just answer either 'yes' or 'no'

[davidrocke]

yes. To finish first, first you have to finish.

[ncekkk]

that's ridiculous. did you even read what i wrote? the guy drives 3 sec slower a lap. over 10 lap that's 30 secs. how does that make him a better driver? elaborate please.

[davidrocke]

nobody was driving 3 seconds a lap slower, so your point is completely off topic anyway, you're just desperately trying to save yourself what you know is a lost argument. Doornbos lost control, and hit the barrier. Race over. Like i said, if you don't finish you score nothing.

[ncekkk]

i said IF there was someone who was driving 3 sec slower a lap. do you understand that? i never said anyone was driving 3 sec slower a lap. and what i ask if he was a better driver (more skilled) instead of did he win. so you haven't really answered the question.

[ArosaMike]

But he did answer your question. I quote again incase you can't see it: "yes. To finish first, first you have to finish."

[ncekkk]

so are you implying that the better driver will finish in front? in that case do you agree that Panis is better than Schu, Hill, Villeneuve, and Mika? just to refresh your memory he won 96 monaco gp in an inferior car. and please tell me the reason if you disagree.

[ArosaMike]

What is your obsession with that one race and Panis? There are literally thousands of other races like that where drivers in slower cars finish higher up the finishing order than normal. At the end of the day...if you win a race, you win a race. For whatever reason, you managed to do something everyone else didn't in that race.

[ncekkk]

can i just have the answer? you seem to avoid answering that question. i know he won the race but is he a better driver?

[ArosaMike]

It's an impossible question to answer though. You'd have to put him in the same car as all the others. If you're talking just about that one race in that car then yes, he clearly was better than all the others as he won the race! The quote 'To finish first, first you have to finish' is classic and very well known. You don't win a championship by being the fastest person on track but crashing out every race.

[ArosaMike]

How can you say he didn't read what you wrote. He answered exactly what you asked and basically in as many words as you asked.

[ncekkk]

i asked if he was a better driver instead of did he win against Doornbos. so i still haven't got my question answered. maybe you wanna answer it for me?

[ncekkk]

well I never said I race or better than anyone didn't I?? so what's your point???

[davidrocke]

I don't see the point in you sitting here openly criticising other peoples achievements. Especially since I don't see any evidence of you achieving anything at all.

[ncekkk]

I never mention that fastest lap is everything... where the hell did you even have that idea? did you even read what i wrote? let me guess... you're probably gonna call me ignorant right??