Fiona Phillips on coalitions NHS reforms (20Jan11)

[radicalsystems]

so according to you, privatising the NHS will somehow 'save' it..hmm dont think so..

[educbillstinks]

i totally agree with fiona every local gp ought to be good 5th preference comprehensive school choice - how awful

the population is growing and the cutbacks are growing

i have always found nhs to be second to none and everyone I have ever dealt with great hands off coalition you will all be ok

[arthur1411]

Fiona Philips really embarrass herself here.

Jackie Smith tries to calm her down but her ignorance knows no bounds.

[dikkydoo1]

fiona phillips FUCK OFF YOU LABOUR LACKY !!

[MrGilles1990]

Privatise the NHS!!

[radicalsystems]

@MrGilles1990 fule

[kbdkbd99]

Over the last 15 years the NHS has become infected by beauracrats. Administrators, Managers and Politicians with no medical, clinical or technical knowledge who's primary role is to create more and more beauracracy and red-tape.

The vast majority of these beauracrats are labour-supporting common-purpose wasters.

NHS trusts employ 100's of thousands of these wasters.

Fundamentally these changes are a revolution to get give spending power back to doctors who actually know how to treat patients.

[MODTRASH]

@kbdkbd99 Spot on!!! The same goes for the Jobcentres,Schools e.t.c.

[Marcus3141592653]

@kbdkbd99 It isn’t as simple as getting health insurance, companies don’t insure everybody and they aren’t always guaranteed to give you the money when you need it. One man in America had to pay $60,000 to have the end of his middle finger sewn back on and $12,000 for his ring finger. He could only afford the $12,000 so now there is no tip on his middle finger. Lord only knows what it will cost for heart surgery. Just wait until everything is handed over to greedy private companies.

[kbdkbd99]

@Marcus - you've got me wrong - I believe in Free NHS care for all.

I'm highlighting the beauracracy of Labour and I'm in favour of getting rid of beauracrats full stop.

I'm against Public Sector beauracrats - and I'm against Private Sector beauracrats.

Basically I'm saying that all the problems we face in the world can be solved by technology and science, and only those so trained can solve these problems.

The rise of the administrator and manager into powerful positions is the problem.

[Marcus3141592653]

@kbdkbd99 I agree. I hate bureaucracy to mate. Believe me though, when the government has finished there may be no NHS left for tax payers to fund (it wont be free anymore). Privatising it may very well eliminate most of the bureaucracy BUT it will probably be replaced with hefty health treatment bills that people will have to find from their own pockets. It cauld very well mean that the rich will get health care, but the poor will die because they cant afford to be treated for their illnesses.

[kbdkbd99]

@Marcus3141592653 can I just ask you a theoretical question ?

kid A respect his teachers and grows up well educated and becomes a Doctor and helps discover a technique or a medicine that will cure a certain type of cancer.

kid B despises authority as he has been taught to do so by his parents. Teachers are worthless and he spends his time disrupting lessons holding back others. He grows up to finds he cannot get a job.

Does kid b deserve the medicine that kid A has produced ?

Just a question.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

go die in a hole like Ron Paul's campaign aid

[kbdkbd99]

@unassumption unfortunately for you I won't die in a hole - I'll keep on giving my opinions - which have been rated-up.

Are you one of those beauracrats I referred to ? Were you asleep during the lesson that showed that central planning and fixed targets don't work ?

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

According to a Havard study 45,000 people die each year in the US due to lack of insurance, glad you want a Nam every year in the UK.

You want to give people a death sentence for getting bad grades, fuck you. Over 60% of the uninsured in the US are full time employed, same would be true in the UK if we had a system like theirs.

The overheads (beurocracy) in the NHS are substantially lower than in the US system, but obviously private beurocracy doesn't count only public beurocracy

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

Even the well off, like ron paul's campaign manager, die because of pre-existing conditions, then pass their medical debts off to their families as he had to. The majority of bankrupcies are caused by medicine in the US, should we follow that model?

We must not let philosophy (who 'deserves' what) blind us from seeing effective policy.

If you think people with bad grades deserve to die, you deserve to die. Not implying your not intelligent, just that we don't need sociopaths.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

Were you asleep during the lesson on natural monopolies?

If you think human lives don't matter because the (mostly working) poor don't deserve to live, how about the high costs and overheads of 'private' systems compared to the public ones?

Mixed markets are the most successful, free markets fail as much (or more) than central planing (more as they've never been achieved in practice in a modern technological nation) so 'planning' is no more a dirty word than 'markets' we need both

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

as for the ratings on your comments? This video is clearly attractive to people who share your point of view, and seen by only a small number of people who tend to share it. If I featured it on my page, I'm sure the kind of people it would attract would down thumb your comment and all the other comments here. Thumb ratings mean little to nothing.

[kbdkbd99]

@unassumption you have a lot to learn.

A quote attributed to Churchill goes like this : "Any man in his 20's who is not a liberal does not have a heart. Any man in his 30's who is not a conservative does not have a brain".

I realise you are young and full of ideas - it's clear you have so much more to see and learn. You should stop preaching and start learning.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

I have less education and experience on this topic than most, but age doesn't nesicarilly lead to those things; the only evidence you've made the most of your extra years is the extra knowledge that can be shown in comments. I know I've got a lot to lean, I was trolling in those last comments, if you really believe people with a bad education deserve to die you're a thoroughly despicable human, but I wouldn't want you to die, but I doubt you'd really pull the plug.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

JS Mill, "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." You can find famous and intelligent people to support any position, appeals to authority ftf. Though you were probably just using that to illustrate your position which is perfectly OK. I don't know much about economic theory, but the UK seems to beat the US in cost and quality of healthcare, and Sweden seems to beat the UK (though the US beats the USSR )

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

Support for a mixed market welfare state doesn't mean you're a commie. If you have facts that discount or diminish what I said about the US as a model for market healthcare, and it's healthcare costs as a % of GDP, overheads, preventative care or amenable deaths, It'd be great to hear it. If in all you extra years all you've got is an emotional or philosophical 'they don't deserve to live because they got bad grades,' it seems those were wasted years on your part.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

I find outcomes more important than theories- all theories must match the facts. If the facts show a more socialized system like Germany or France beats our own, and our own beats the more market driven US healthcare system (just the healthcare industry here) it seems markets are something we would want to avoid. The number of economists who seem to be OK with universal HC makes me doubt that the theory would oppose this though I'm going on their authority

[kbdkbd99]

@unassumption you say "you prefer FACTS to THEORIES" yet you clearly don't understand the difference.

You say that the facts show a more socialized system like France beats our own, yet you present no objective measurements.

Stop talking theoryShow me the set of FACTS that puts France ahead of us.

Let's look at the healthcare systems of France or Germany - they are both systems that combine strong elements of private healthcare provision, so your example actually destroys your case on the NHS.

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

Stop talking theory?

% GDP spent on HC per nation is given in OECD Health Data 2011

Amenable deaths are given in "Measuring the health of nations: analysis of mortality amenable to health care"

How is that theory?

The NHS is the worst universal system in Europe, we should look to successes in the continent, but these reforms look likely to follow the Atlantic's model -as would any reforms that killed people with poor grades as your first comment advocated may I remind you >_>

[kbdkbd99]

@unassumption I am glad to hear that you are finally accepting my point of view that the NHS requires urgent reform.

Regarding your other comment - that I am advocating killing people with poor grades - I didn't say that at all.

I make a simple point to this fundamental question : " What is a person entitled to, from society". It's a question of political economics, and is a fair question given finite resources.

Should a man who produces nothing (by his own choice) be entitled to everything ?

[unassumption]

@kbdkbd99

Resources are finite but we have enough to let everyone live. As the UK proves.

You Ayn Rand BS is synonymous with "let him die because he's stupid" but you will use semantics to make 'let him die' something other than 'kill him' which it translates to. You have the means to save but blow it on... some guy who's richer than you's vanity goods.

Individualism ignores the fact the language you speak, the ground you walk on, the food you eat, was all made by others.

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 thats twaddle and fascistic.whats next? if hes disabled and unable to work .you think he should lose right to vote...you think like an accountant...whats this produces nothing...does a lollipop lady produce anything? does a roadsweeper produce anything..dont you have ANY concept of public service? no of course not..its all trade , after all health is just product isnt it?..

[kbdkbd99]

@radicalsystems I have more of a concept of government sector than do you. I see it for what it is.

That's becuase I am a well-paid, well-educated and successful worker. Whereas I know which group you belong to.

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 and which group is that then? im not part of any group in fact..i see what is there..you want to slag offf public service the go ahead but if yo think that the private sector delivers then you are deluded..ask anyone about the railways in UK what a disaster..cuts in maintenance, longer drivers hours low pay low moral, cuts in safety lead to the most horrendous railway accidents..the same with buses..none of this was open to public scrutiny..commercial confidentiality

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 NHS doesnt need this kind of 'reform in fact its not a reform at all..its tory speak for shovelling more cash into their paymasters bank accounts..its a scam..

[kbdkbd99]

@radicalsystems have you noticed that every market in which the government intervenes delivers a low quality product at high prices.

Public sector schooling has failed. Public sector housing has failed. Public sector healthcare has failed.

Are you too stupid to see that whatever government touches - turns to shit ?

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 i suppose the so called free market delivers all..actually anyone in businesss doesnt want competition at all they want to monopolise everything in order to profit by..er a bit like public sector ,,except of course its no longer free..how ironic that sounds..

[kbdkbd99]

@radicalsystems you say "anyone in business doesnt want competition".

So what ? They will have competition whether they like it or not. That is the nature of man - to find better economic arrangements. If a businessman produces shoes too expensive for the taste of his customers - he will soon be of business, and his profits will be gone.

On the other hand -public sector works without competition - and that is why it does a poor job. Only government creates monopolies.

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 funny that lrge companie buy up more companies to remove competition and become a monopoly...oh without any unnessary red tape regulation...like the banks who pissed other peoples money up the wall then went cap in hand to govts ,please sir can we have some more..to piss away again..but oh no lets blame de imigrunts and the workshy disabled..etc etc..wealthfare its called..

[kbdkbd99]

@radicalsystems obviously you have not heard of anti-monopoly or anti-trust laws.

also you do not appear to underst that in a free economy - monopolies cannot survive. If Hovis buys all the bread bakers, and starts charging £100 per loaf - what do you think would happen dumb-ass ?

Only governments can allow monopolies to come in to effect.

You have so much to leaarn.

[radicalsystems]

@kbdkbd99 conservative with a brain...?? calculator maybe but brain no..

[Marcus3141592653]

@kbdkbd99 Revolution, yes I like the sound of that! I'm guessing you are a person who is not short of money, in that case don’t even bother replying to what I have to say. If you don’t have any savings I suggest you start accruing them. If the government privatises the NHS all expenses will be laid solely on the individual person who needs treatment and not everybody can afford the thousands of pounds in treatment costs. Continued in next post.....