It must also be kept in mind that out of 47 referenda held since 1905, 45 have ultimately resulted in independent countries. The only exception is Quebec, twice. In the latter case, polls showed only 30% support yes, but on the day just shy of 51% voted yes - a massive jump but not enough to pass. 'Unsures' typically vote YES historically. This is very important to note.
@97kcoats Say that to over 900,000 Scots who voted for the PRO independence SNP party just last May there. Are they all delusional too then? And don't give me your unionist crap about most of the SNP voters not wanting independence. Scottish voters aren't stupid. No true unionist in a million years would vote for a nationalist party that seeks independence ! Calling me delusional is extremely hypocritical. You just can't accept that your precious union could be coming to an end can you?
Just to chip in here. In polls, support for independence is consistently highest in Glasgow and the West, i.e. Labour heartlands.Likewise, people should not confuse a Scottish Conservative voter with a Unionist. All should note that in home rule referenda in 1979 and 1997, the YES vote well exceeded the SNP share of the vote. Home rule support crosses the whole of the political spectrum in Scotland.
@scotsskier Home-rule is not Independence from the United Kingdom. Even in the election for Scotland in May if you were to add Unionist voted combined you will see the majority of Scots still support Unionist parties, if Scots felt so strongly for Independence they would overwhelmingly vote a party to get us out the Union and they concentrate on the following steps, instead Scots support our strong United Kingdom. 630 461 + 276 652 + 157 714 = 1 064 827 is the sum for Unionist votes. (BBC)
If Scots have no interest in independence and a YES vote will never happen, why are unionist parties already campaigning against it? Polls showed >51% definite support for independence in 1997-8; hence devolution. They are currently at ~38% defo YES and 42% NO, i.e. close to equal (average of all polls in last 2 years). With 20% liking the idea but unsure it is sensible/want to hear the pros/cons, a debate is certainly timely.
@scotsskier Devolution is not Independence, you can't just give me a referendum on devolved powers from the United Kingdom and claim Scotland wants to break away from the United Kingdom? Do have any idea how bizarre and flawed that makes your argument look? We have had some of the biggest economical and social changes happen in this century! taking polls from last century and telling me Scots will vote for the break up of the UK is quite frankly laughable! please get some 21st century facts.
@glasgow1234 So you're claiming the 1.6 million Scottish voters who voted Unionist parties as the 2010 General election in May 2010 all now support Independence and the SNP's movement towards separation from the United Kingdom? People voted vote Alex Salmomnd, the best man for the job, not Independence. I know plenty of Unionists who voted for Alex Salmond in the May elections. I can't see any hard core separatist voting a Unionist party, people in Scotland have diverse opinion.
@glasgow1234 Scotland splitting from the United Kingdom is not what Scots wish to have, polls have voting trends tell us this, when the referendum comes it will soon to be hard fact for you to see. Scotland has seats within the UK parliament, without a Scottish vote the Tories would of had a majority Government, Scotland has a massive impact politically within the United Kingdom, fact. You got the backing of Murdoch at the election mixed in with a collapsed Liberal vote.
So you believe the 900 thousand off who voted for the SNP support Independence? Give me a break! The Liberal Democrat vote collapsed plus Salmond was the best candidate for the job, add 2 and 2 you get Alex Salmond. If you add up the Unionist party votes for the election ( 630 461 + 276 652 + 157 714 = 1 064 827 ) we still have over a million supporters and yet that was on Salmond biggest victory, Unionists will always be the majority face it. Scots support the Union.
@97kcoats As i said before, Scottish voters aren't stupid. No pro unionist Scot would vote for the SNP in a million years ! Yes you are correct, added up there were more unionist votes than nationalist. But have a look at the Scottish elections for 2007. Only 600K for Nationalist and over 1 million for unionist. Then in 2011 the nationalist vote rises to over 900K and the unionist vote falls dramatically. It just shows that a lot can change in 4 years. Scotland WILL become an independent country
@glasgow1234 Yes in 2007 they had 600 thousand votes correct, though they did not have the support of the SUN newspaper and the collapse of the Liberal Democrats. You can't just say because the Nationalists got 900 thousand votes it shows they will vote 'yes' in the referendum, what we can see is that the Liberal vote collapsed and they went to the SNP. The Majority support Unionist parties in Scotland, always have and always will, support for Independence is not the case.
@97kcoats Are you telling me the SNP got more votes because they had the support of the SUN? And also, you say we got more votes because of the LibDem collapse..... LibDems are a UNIONIST party. SNP are a NATIONALIST party.... For the 3rd time, Scots voters are NOT stupid... Why didn't the lib dem voters vote for labour, tories or another Unionist party? Instead they voted for the SNP because they have seen what they can do and they like it... always have but not always will my friend :)
@glasgow1234 The UK Liberal Democrats done a coalition with the Conservatives there for Scots Liberals refused to vote for them at the Scottish elections that's a fact. Do you really think that people in Scotland are suddenly going to vote SNP for Independence? That's just not true, and if it was it would have been reflected int he poll brought out after the election. Support for the Liberals has been destroyed all over the UK since the coalition, this gave the SNP votes.
@glasgow1234 Labours campaign was terrible, Grey is a boring old far and Alex Salmond was the best man for the job in the election there for people voted for him, that mixed in with a collapsed Liberal vote. It is clear the people of this country support a strong Union and devolution but not Independence, all will be confirmed in due course.
@97kcoats Yes it was, but regardless of campaigns, no unionist, no Scot who is against independence would vote for the SNP. It's as simple as that. You Unionists used to say when Labour won the Scots elections that that ment Scots were against independence and pro unionist. Now the SNP win a majority and you can't accept that ! Instead you find excuses.... Yes the libdem collapse helped the SNP but why would a unionist voter vote for a nationalist party? That doesn't make sense.
@glasgow1234 I don't think there is any real evidence to show Scots support the break up of the United Kingdom, you are the one who seems to like going round giving out numbers, yet Unionist parties seek the majority of votes at all elections, going by your standards that means we will win the referendum. If we go by polls and voting intentions then it shows majority support the Union, I'm looking at the facts and giving you answers, you're just pulling out random thoughts.
@97kcoats On 2nd September a poll was published showing Scots voting intentions for Scots Parliament - SNP = 49%, Labour = 28%, Tory = 13%, LibDems = 7%. The poll also gave Scots voting intentions for Westminster Parliament. SNP = 42% which is up 19% since the last UK election, Labour = 33%, Tory = 16%, LibDems = 6%. The support for the pro independence SNP party is rising and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. Scots do not want to be ruled from London anymore. Independence is coming !!!
No, the majority do not support the union but neither are people supporting independence in clear majority.
As stated previous polls averaged for the last 2 years give:
YES = 38%
Would like but unsure it's sensible = ~20%
NO = 42%
That means up to 58% might vote yes tomorrow. The fact that 70% support holding a referendum suggests only 30% are hardcore unionist in Scotland. Certainly it warrants the question being asked of Scots.
@97kcoats So the Scottish are content with England making most decisions for them? I don't see how there's any point to being Scottish as Scotland is subject to the decisions of England. Their immigration policy alone will wipe out the Scots in a few decades alone.
@OilBarron84 Immigration in Scotland has been decreasing, we need more up Scotland, not less. Devolution means Scotland makes majority of it's decisions itself and not the United Kingdom. You say England makes Scotland's decisions, thought it would be impossible for one part of the United Kingdom to make decisions for another. We elect MP's and MSP's do do that for us, not England. You don't know what you're talking about, foreign fool.
@97kcoats sure you have your representatives but overall doesn't England, via its much larger population, and representation calls the shots in matters the UK oversees? Northern Ireland and Wales are in the same position.
@OilBarron84 No you obviously don't know how it works in the UK. One part of the United Kingdom can't call any shots. All parts of the United Kingdom vote for a Member of Parliament to represent them in the house of commons, there is over 600 seats all over the UK, each of those seats are filled with different MP's from all parties. As I said before,regardless of population, England is only one part of the UK. England is ruled by the United Kingdom, not itself.
@97kcoats Well considering there are only 59 Scottish MPs sitting in a parliament with 533 English MPs i think that one part can definitely call the shots and they do !
WHAT ABOUT ALL THE THIRD WORLD IMMIGRANTS , SCOTLANDS SHARE -ONE MILLION. WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO HOUSE THEM ALL-- THINK IT OVER--BE CAREFUL.
albion605 1 month ago
Latest TNS-BRMB has the yes ahead of the No.
YES = 39%
Want but UNSURE = 23%
NO = 38%
No losing to the 'Want but unsure' - a familiar pattern over the last few years.
scotsskier 5 months ago
It must also be kept in mind that out of 47 referenda held since 1905, 45 have ultimately resulted in independent countries. The only exception is Quebec, twice. In the latter case, polls showed only 30% support yes, but on the day just shy of 51% voted yes - a massive jump but not enough to pass. 'Unsures' typically vote YES historically. This is very important to note.
scotsskier 5 months ago
Thumbs up if you are going to vote YES for SCOTLAND'S INDEPENDENCE
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 You're delusional. You'll see at the referendum results what I mean when I say you're delusional.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats Say that to over 900,000 Scots who voted for the PRO independence SNP party just last May there. Are they all delusional too then? And don't give me your unionist crap about most of the SNP voters not wanting independence. Scottish voters aren't stupid. No true unionist in a million years would vote for a nationalist party that seeks independence ! Calling me delusional is extremely hypocritical. You just can't accept that your precious union could be coming to an end can you?
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@glasgow1234
Just to chip in here. In polls, support for independence is consistently highest in Glasgow and the West, i.e. Labour heartlands.Likewise, people should not confuse a Scottish Conservative voter with a Unionist. All should note that in home rule referenda in 1979 and 1997, the YES vote well exceeded the SNP share of the vote. Home rule support crosses the whole of the political spectrum in Scotland.
scotsskier 5 months ago
@scotsskier Home-rule is not Independence from the United Kingdom. Even in the election for Scotland in May if you were to add Unionist voted combined you will see the majority of Scots still support Unionist parties, if Scots felt so strongly for Independence they would overwhelmingly vote a party to get us out the Union and they concentrate on the following steps, instead Scots support our strong United Kingdom. 630 461 + 276 652 + 157 714 = 1 064 827 is the sum for Unionist votes. (BBC)
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats
If Scots have no interest in independence and a YES vote will never happen, why are unionist parties already campaigning against it? Polls showed >51% definite support for independence in 1997-8; hence devolution. They are currently at ~38% defo YES and 42% NO, i.e. close to equal (average of all polls in last 2 years). With 20% liking the idea but unsure it is sensible/want to hear the pros/cons, a debate is certainly timely.
scotsskier 5 months ago
@scotsskier Devolution is not Independence, you can't just give me a referendum on devolved powers from the United Kingdom and claim Scotland wants to break away from the United Kingdom? Do have any idea how bizarre and flawed that makes your argument look? We have had some of the biggest economical and social changes happen in this century! taking polls from last century and telling me Scots will vote for the break up of the UK is quite frankly laughable! please get some 21st century facts.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 So you're claiming the 1.6 million Scottish voters who voted Unionist parties as the 2010 General election in May 2010 all now support Independence and the SNP's movement towards separation from the United Kingdom? People voted vote Alex Salmomnd, the best man for the job, not Independence. I know plenty of Unionists who voted for Alex Salmond in the May elections. I can't see any hard core separatist voting a Unionist party, people in Scotland have diverse opinion.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 Scotland splitting from the United Kingdom is not what Scots wish to have, polls have voting trends tell us this, when the referendum comes it will soon to be hard fact for you to see. Scotland has seats within the UK parliament, without a Scottish vote the Tories would of had a majority Government, Scotland has a massive impact politically within the United Kingdom, fact. You got the backing of Murdoch at the election mixed in with a collapsed Liberal vote.
97kcoats 5 months ago
So you believe the 900 thousand off who voted for the SNP support Independence? Give me a break! The Liberal Democrat vote collapsed plus Salmond was the best candidate for the job, add 2 and 2 you get Alex Salmond. If you add up the Unionist party votes for the election ( 630 461 + 276 652 + 157 714 = 1 064 827 ) we still have over a million supporters and yet that was on Salmond biggest victory, Unionists will always be the majority face it. Scots support the Union.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats As i said before, Scottish voters aren't stupid. No pro unionist Scot would vote for the SNP in a million years ! Yes you are correct, added up there were more unionist votes than nationalist. But have a look at the Scottish elections for 2007. Only 600K for Nationalist and over 1 million for unionist. Then in 2011 the nationalist vote rises to over 900K and the unionist vote falls dramatically. It just shows that a lot can change in 4 years. Scotland WILL become an independent country
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 Yes in 2007 they had 600 thousand votes correct, though they did not have the support of the SUN newspaper and the collapse of the Liberal Democrats. You can't just say because the Nationalists got 900 thousand votes it shows they will vote 'yes' in the referendum, what we can see is that the Liberal vote collapsed and they went to the SNP. The Majority support Unionist parties in Scotland, always have and always will, support for Independence is not the case.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats Are you telling me the SNP got more votes because they had the support of the SUN? And also, you say we got more votes because of the LibDem collapse..... LibDems are a UNIONIST party. SNP are a NATIONALIST party.... For the 3rd time, Scots voters are NOT stupid... Why didn't the lib dem voters vote for labour, tories or another Unionist party? Instead they voted for the SNP because they have seen what they can do and they like it... always have but not always will my friend :)
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 The UK Liberal Democrats done a coalition with the Conservatives there for Scots Liberals refused to vote for them at the Scottish elections that's a fact. Do you really think that people in Scotland are suddenly going to vote SNP for Independence? That's just not true, and if it was it would have been reflected int he poll brought out after the election. Support for the Liberals has been destroyed all over the UK since the coalition, this gave the SNP votes.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 Labours campaign was terrible, Grey is a boring old far and Alex Salmond was the best man for the job in the election there for people voted for him, that mixed in with a collapsed Liberal vote. It is clear the people of this country support a strong Union and devolution but not Independence, all will be confirmed in due course.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats Yes it was, but regardless of campaigns, no unionist, no Scot who is against independence would vote for the SNP. It's as simple as that. You Unionists used to say when Labour won the Scots elections that that ment Scots were against independence and pro unionist. Now the SNP win a majority and you can't accept that ! Instead you find excuses.... Yes the libdem collapse helped the SNP but why would a unionist voter vote for a nationalist party? That doesn't make sense.
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@glasgow1234 I don't think there is any real evidence to show Scots support the break up of the United Kingdom, you are the one who seems to like going round giving out numbers, yet Unionist parties seek the majority of votes at all elections, going by your standards that means we will win the referendum. If we go by polls and voting intentions then it shows majority support the Union, I'm looking at the facts and giving you answers, you're just pulling out random thoughts.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats On 2nd September a poll was published showing Scots voting intentions for Scots Parliament - SNP = 49%, Labour = 28%, Tory = 13%, LibDems = 7%. The poll also gave Scots voting intentions for Westminster Parliament. SNP = 42% which is up 19% since the last UK election, Labour = 33%, Tory = 16%, LibDems = 6%. The support for the pro independence SNP party is rising and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. Scots do not want to be ruled from London anymore. Independence is coming !!!
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@97kcoats
No, the majority do not support the union but neither are people supporting independence in clear majority.
As stated previous polls averaged for the last 2 years give:
YES = 38%
Would like but unsure it's sensible = ~20%
NO = 42%
That means up to 58% might vote yes tomorrow. The fact that 70% support holding a referendum suggests only 30% are hardcore unionist in Scotland. Certainly it warrants the question being asked of Scots.
scotsskier 5 months ago
Independence by the ballot, not the sword. What a long time in the making too!
Renegen1 5 months ago
'Bout time too - money-sink.
tojoconfused 5 months ago
English government would fuck you little Scottish in the ass!!!!!!!
codeagent47 5 months ago
@codeagent47 England does not have a Government, read a book.
97kcoats 5 months ago
they should consider stepping out of the EU as well.. Right now, Scotland is not in control of its own destiny as it's not a real country.
OilBarron84 5 months ago
@OilBarron84 Scots don't support Independence, there for nothing like that should be considered as of now.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats
See first Scotland-wide poll since May from IPSOS MORI; out yesterday.
SNP intention up to 47-49% for Holyrood, but more signficant..up to 42% in Westminster intention.
42% is probably a tad high - UK wide poll subsets suggest 36% for Westminster intention, which is up 16.1% since the 2010 general election.
Certainly; if these keep on rising, the Union will end soon. Voting SNP for Westminster means only one thing.
scotsskier 5 months ago
@97kcoats So the Scottish are content with England making most decisions for them? I don't see how there's any point to being Scottish as Scotland is subject to the decisions of England. Their immigration policy alone will wipe out the Scots in a few decades alone.
OilBarron84 5 months ago
@OilBarron84 Immigration in Scotland has been decreasing, we need more up Scotland, not less. Devolution means Scotland makes majority of it's decisions itself and not the United Kingdom. You say England makes Scotland's decisions, thought it would be impossible for one part of the United Kingdom to make decisions for another. We elect MP's and MSP's do do that for us, not England. You don't know what you're talking about, foreign fool.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats sure you have your representatives but overall doesn't England, via its much larger population, and representation calls the shots in matters the UK oversees? Northern Ireland and Wales are in the same position.
OilBarron84 5 months ago
@OilBarron84 No you obviously don't know how it works in the UK. One part of the United Kingdom can't call any shots. All parts of the United Kingdom vote for a Member of Parliament to represent them in the house of commons, there is over 600 seats all over the UK, each of those seats are filled with different MP's from all parties. As I said before,regardless of population, England is only one part of the UK. England is ruled by the United Kingdom, not itself.
97kcoats 5 months ago
@97kcoats Well considering there are only 59 Scottish MPs sitting in a parliament with 533 English MPs i think that one part can definitely call the shots and they do !
glasgow1234 5 months ago
@OilBarron84 though*
97kcoats 5 months ago