The Great Debate - Capitalism vs Socialism

[shelzoth]

What exactly is capitalistic about a government debt crisis? All government debt is incurred by defect spending. Deficit spending is the antithesis of a free market.

[marsglorious]

@shelzoth In the context I believe that the government debt is incurred such that the government can keep the capitalist system from collapsing. This combined with heavy lobbying by corporate/wealthy vested interests, a product of capitalism, resulting in reduced taxation for the wealthy significantly reducing government revenue, since the rich control much of the wealth, cripples the government budget, necessitating debt.

The logic is that free market advocates dig their own grave.

[shelzoth]

@marsglorious Completely wrong. Government debt is incurred for no other reason than too much government spending. You can't say that corporate welfare is a function of CAPITALISM when it's clearly a function of government (without government ,corporate welfare could not exist).

Your hatred for the rich then goes on for a few lines. I won't waste my time with that ignorant demagoguery.

[DEMOCRACYISFASCISM]

CAPITALISIM + SOCILAISM = FASCISM

MARXISM IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD!

[garrywarne1]

@DEMOCRACYISFASCISM If you truly are a Marxist, then you must accept that Communism can only be achieved after years of Socialism; and that the Socialist revolution should only happen once "everything that can be invented, has been invented."

[joekopor]

@DEMOCRACYISFASCISM very amusing troll you are. Capitalism and Socialism are fundamentally opposite forces and can never be joined

[marsglorious]

@joekopor The definition of Socialism varies because people call government policies they don't like Socialism to induce a McCarthy style fear reaction. Short circuiting logic.

Policies like free education, universal healthcare, welfare are called Socialism in the USA for that reason, thankfully not in Australia, mostly.

If you use the American definition of Socialism, the two can indeed be joined and are so in all Western countries, including the USA.

[RealNewsAustralia]

31:25 idiot

[TJTutorails]

0:12:12 i laughed...

[WukFanatic]

srry my inernet is bugging in the last few days by the A next to Westen European I mean American

[rolling126r]

Simply put Socialism/Communism says everyone should be equal but since everyone can't be wealthy, everyone can be poor and therefore they're now equal. Sounds fantastic! Where do I sign up?? LOL

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r You prove that you do not undesrtand the ideology of communism.In real communism,nobody is wealthy,nobody is poor,bcz there IS NO FUCKING BRAINWASHING MONEY.

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic And you prove that you do not understand money and it's relation to the system of economics. Wealth is a person's purchasing power - for the most part, money represents this to people like you who are slow in understanding. Communism/Socialism inhibits the production of goods to be purchased so no matter how much "money" you have, if it's not on the shelf then you can't buy it. But the leaders who control the distribution can get as much of whatever they want.

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r Tell me something I dont know?Anyway,about the comment from before,it failed bcz,China itself had problems with food during the 20iest century bcz they hada sudden rise in population and it was difficult to feed 1 billion ppl when just a few years earlier you had to feed double the less.So China is out of the picture,since it on its own needed food and other products.Other countries just cant help Russia with anything,since Russia and China were the easter block leaders

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r And what money represents today in the world is sick and just non-moral.Capitalism is bassicly neo-imperialism and slavery.In capitalism only 5 countries of the world are rich,while all others are sinking in their shit,those that try to do something on their own,if they do not have a strong army,get bombed and sent back into stone-age.After that,capitalists,pay politicians to "rule" the country and to literally be colonies to the them.Sick and discusting

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic On the face of it, Capitalism is without gov't interference or influence. Unfortunately in today's world we don't have that and are less off because of it. The real problem is the incestual relationship between gov't and business. True capitalists do not want gov't in business but Scialists advocate for MORE gov't in business which is just the opposite of the solution. It's like a drowning man diving deeper to find air!

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic I have come to realize that most ppl on the left are zealots and no matter how many facts and truths are put in front of their faces disproving everything they believe, they'll never admit the truth to themselves. So it's a waste of time to argue with you. Continue to believe in "the way things should be." The rest of us will live in the reality of the way things are.

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic Oh, and finally, according to you Communist/Socialist countries must be the unluckiest people in the world or they're just completely inept at farming...or could it be that the system JUST DOESN'T WORK!!

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r Every system works,if you put it in the right way.Democracy also doenst work,this what you have is hardly a d of democracy.As I said soviets were a monarchy more then a socialist republic,Yugoslavia prooved that socialism works,Scandinavian countries proved that socialism works.Communism now is a utopia,since people are not yet ready for such a system.All other as you call them "communist" countries had the same system as Russia,monarchy with little socialist ideas.

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r But I aint gonna try to prove that socialism is better the capitalism to and A or Western European,since you just ran like a fly and didnt comment anything on the post where I said how South America,Africa and some parts of Asia are doing thanks to capitalism.But mostly why I cant prove it is bcz you guys are so fucking close-minded,blind and stuborn,every guy that I had a conversation with that was for capitalism,said the same.Clones in a media prison eating McDonalds.

[medinjo17]

@WukFanatic watch?v=t9NJdzLaiAU&feature=re­lated just watch it...

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Sweden bro, just fucking open your eyes...

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 Well gosh BRO..you sure got me if only Sweden was a socialist nation then you might have something, but since it’s not you really don’t have anything do you? No you don’t…I’m sorry

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r I Fucking live in Sweden your moron!! I am Swedish and Sweden is very much a socialistic country... Socialism is NOT communism, do not mix them up because I hate communism as much as you do... Sweden is one of the richest countries in the world and we have not fought in a war in over two hundreds of years, at the same time corruption does not exist here in the same way it does in your country. Do your homework before commentating...

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 Well, you better let IKEA (a privately held corporation) know that they’re breaking the rules of your #33 on the wealthiest nations list Sweden… I would admonish you for getting your facts wrong and overstating your case but I won’t because you live in Sweden… and that by itself is sad.

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r @rolling126r I see that us searched for the list of the wealthiest countries in total and not per person, idiot. If you look on a list that compares per capita, or you take a countries GDP divided by the number of people in that country, you will find that Sweden is above countries as Japan, new zealand and russia. Yes america is on the top of that list, but you also beat Sweden in crime rate and number of poor people per capita. OWNED!

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 hmmm...I see that you can't figure out that the GDP in your "socialist" little Sweden belongs to the government (or the people) but the people don't get to control the money and, therefore, cannot be counted as income per capita. OWNED ya little bitch! HAHAHAHA keep trying though

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Are you serious?? now you are just trolling... You are talking about communism, not socialism. it is two completely different things.. in Communism, the government decides what products to produce and how much of it. In socialism the government pays for my entire civil engineer education, something I would not otherwise afford. And I pay the money back later in taxes. Everyone can choose to get an education basically for free. now you tell me the problem with socialism.

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 "In socialism the government pays for..." that is the problem with people who do not understand government. The government doesn'tpay, the people do. so when you say "the gov't pays" replace that with "my neighbor John pays for me" - I don't want to pay for someone else to do or not do anything. I like the FREEDOM to spend my money how I want. I don't want the gov't to take my money and spend it how they want. I know it's hard for people with slave mentality to understand

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r I know, "the government pays for" is the same thing as me paying for, but see it like this: Now I can attend an education I would not otherwise be able to attend because I will be able to pay for it afterwards through taxes and at the end get more money than if I would have lived in america and wouldn't afford an education and live of a crappy job. But imagine this: the freedom not to be dependent in a rich family for an education, the FREEDOM that everyone can have one.

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 So how much did your education cost? How much did it cost you afterward?  Do you know? See that'sthe ting about people who like socialist policies...they don't know, they don't want to know - leave it to someone else (the gov't) to figure that out. Let's all go through life without having to think or take responsibility for anything. It's like you want to be children again with your parents (the gov't) giving you an allowance.

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Unlike your government the people working in my government would be much better paid working somewhere else. In other words: they get a shitty salary compared to their extremely hard work. The salary's public, so we all know. And another thing, as son as a politician mess up, for example he doesn't pay for his cable TV or e in some love scandal, he or she has to quit. Corruption doesn't exists here, come and look for yourself.

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 LOL...and gays don't exist in Iran - just ask their president. Are you being serious?? you can't honestly believe that. And if you actually do, then you're in for a helluva a letdown at some point in the future.

[rolling126r]

No corruption in Sweden - someone wrote a whole book about it "Exploring Corruption in Sweden: Types of Corruption, Danger Zones and Control Mechanisms "

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Compare sweden to america or russia or any other country except in Scandinavia and we have so little corruption one can say there is none. I mean religion doesn't even matter in Swedish politics.. can you say the same thing about american politics? no, you can't...

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 First, one can say I'm the king of the world but it doesn't make it true. Second, (I don't know how religion came up but...) almost every major religion is represented in our Congress so I guess I can say that.

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r First I didn't name me king, but it is more likely I'm right because of my experience and knowledge compared to yours in this particular area (I'll bet you are much better than me in many other ways but I don't think this subject is one of them). I mentioned religion because of the corruption it causes, while we talked about corruption. I just have one tip to Americans who share your opinions. Read about Social democracy and Scandinavia and build your own opinion.

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 Fair enough...I'll look into it and study some Scandinavian history 

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r If you want any help in finding anything specific, like how the monarchy in Sweden works and if the king has any power at all, or how Sweden do in the fight against the global warming, just let me know and I will do the best to find fair information in the wanted area.

[rolling126r]

@medinjo17 Not to rub it in but Nigeria is wealthier than Sweden! LOL

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r When I'm done with my education I will have about 4'100 dollar each month after taxes. Which is more than a shitty job where you live which I would have gotten otherwise.

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Just See what one can learn about it. The very thing is that Americans is fed by media all the time that the system you have is great. It is not... Listen to Ron Paul and what he says, his opinions about taxes, gays and abortion is fucked up as an usual American political, but the thing he says about the wars in middle east are wise. And litsen to what Bill Maher says about america, most of it is right on target.

[medinjo17]

@rolling126r Socialism and Communism are NOT the fucking same!!! please do your homework.. here is a hint: Sweden is a Socialistic country (in which i live in) And Russia is a Communistic country (in which I do not live in) I dislike Russia for many reasons as much as you so please don't say that it is the same, it is not.. And for the record, in Communistic countries they don't say that everyone should earn the same amount of money , the gap between rich and poor is large in for example Russia

[16patie]

prove that communism does not work:

China : 30 million dead because of communism and Mao

Russia: 10 million dead because of communism and Stalin

Vietnam: 3 million dead because of a war against communism

[jumpnjza2]

@16patie

All your figures are wrong. So wait, the heroic Vietnamese are responsible for the Americans incinerating 3 million of their fellow people? Do you blame women for being raped too?

[WukFanatic]

@16patie Proof that you are stupid,bcz communism never existed,it was socialism,next,famines appeared not bcz of mao,Lenin or Stalin but because of the west sanctions to "protect the people".If any country was cut off of the rest of the world ofr so long,it would of died out already long ago.In Russia ppl still support "communism" atleast 20 % of them does.If you guys can only think of arguments where ppl died,capitalism is the cause of 2 financial crysis's,famine in Africa....

[WukFanatic]

@16patie and parts of Asia and massive genocide among people who didnt come from Europe.It is responsible for not counted deaths of Indians on the American soil,uncounted number of dead black ppl.Capitalism is a new version of slavery just a little brighter in public.Everything you drink,wear,drive comes from ppl who are used as slaves in their country.Bangladesh for istance has 3 million children pushed by western fabrics to work 12 h a day,if they dont,they get beaten up by the police

[medinjo17]

@16patie If you want to comment communism please seek another thread, this is about socialism and it is not the same as communism. I know this because I live in Sweden (a socialistic country) and live close to communist countries such as Russia (which is not a Socialistic country)

[medinjo17]

@16patie And that is as in very high crime rate in America and many poor people ;) And IKEA is a private owned company as ICA, HM, and Volvo. So? It is Socialism we are talking about not Communism.. for example, Russia is a communist country, they like their government do produce their stuff so the things will get cheaper. Sweden is a socialistic country witch means we as a people like to help each other, so the gap between rich and poor is not as big as in America. Got it?

[HeedAndSucceed]

Capitalism is great; however, in America, it needs to be fairly regulated.

[rolling126r]

@AnDizine Another thing about liberals - they hate to debate, opting to tell the smarter, more prepared conservative to just "shut up". It doesn't matter that everywhere socialism or communism has been tried, it has been a complete failure. But yet liberals like yourself still buy into it. It's amazing how many fools like you there are in the world! Luckily, your heros Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Min, Castro, etc. got rid of a number of you guys.

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r I dont see Hugo Chavez,Jospi Broz Tito,Muammar Gaddafi on your list,Stalin actually led his country great,until WW2 when he lost his mind,Pol Pot was a retard,Castro and so bad,since some americans run to Cuba to get medical assistance for free,instead of going into an American hospital where they have to pay to be cured.It failed mostly bcz of western sanctions and using the media against it.

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic So you're saying that communism can't survive unless it can feed off of a capitalistic system? Whereas capitalism doesn't need communism to thrive. I'm thinking your argument/excuse is a bit weak.

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126r LoL I dont think I said that.First of all,communism has nothing to do with capitalism,communism is actually the most simple system ever,but since ppl arent simple it is hard to achive,so it goes throught socialism.Fristly if America was cut off from the world like SSSR it would also be hard to have a really good economy,but since Russia has tough winters as well,ofc there will be famine.No system is a parasite to another,but still,the entire world does trade,right ???

[rolling126r]

@WukFanatic You're correct - Communism and Capitalism have nothing to do with one another....other than they're both economic systems which are in competition with one another for half a century. Next the USSR was not cut off from the rest of the world - Just because the US did not trade with them didn't stop anyone else from doing so - i.e. China, Cuba, NKorea, Africa, Asia, South America, etc. And they still failed.

[WukFanatic]

@rolling126rAnd 1 more reason why it failed is bcz it was destroyed from inside.Just like Yugoslavia was destroyed from inside USSR was as well.Ofc I do not like USSR socialism,since it more looked like a monarchy then like a republic,but I still dont like when people accuse the entire idea,just bcz it "failed" in one country.Yugoslavia had a pretty good economy,it was open to both sides and when the eastern block was removed,it was time to remove the rest of the socialist world.

[rolling126r]

@AnDizine Ahhh...yes! The liberals favorite fallback. "For God's sake, think of the children!!!" Who do you think sent them out to work?? their parents!

Things to note about liberals. First, no one person is to blame (unless it's Bush), therefore, the system is blamed for failures or used as an excuse for someone's successes. Second, always exaggerate the case. If it was cold, then it was freezing. If there was a puddle, they stood in 6 inches of water.

[NicosMind]

@AnDizine Did you miss this line? "But they want that of society to be high"

Dont confuse capitaists with entreprenuers. A capitalist wants competition to be high along with employment. This does two things. It lowers profits and it supplies the world with more stuff. And its not money that we want but stuff. Thats what economies are meant to supply.

Even Marx said that competition kept wages high. The problem is with goverment and corrupt politicians. Its a democracy fail.

[sajfen]

I would not feel safe among that many socialists in a confined space.

[NicosMind]

@AnDizine First of youre confusing the word entrepreneur with the word capitalist. Efficiency doesnt just mean wage restraint. Wages arent the sole value of the price of a product. For some entrepreneurs especially those of factories yes they can want some wages for some of their employees to be low. But they want that of society to be high. But they also want to keep many of their workers happy. The designers, the specialists, marketers etc. Its counterproductive to have certain workers unhappy

[kookieless]

@AnDizine socialist countries in scandinavia have higher qualitify of life and less currupt government than america

[rolling126r]

Socialists fall in two main groups - 1) rich people who received their money very easily (through inheritance or overpaid professions, i.e. acting) and feel guilty about it, and 2) people who have not become successful and look at successful people with envy. However, if these people were to have worked 15 hrs a day seven days a week for five years to make sure their business was a success, I doubt they would be socialists.

[NicosMind]

@AnD In a capitalist nation the only way you can get rich is to serve the most people. Thomas Edison unlike most of the inventors of his day thought about pleasing the mass market. He worked out the cheapest and best way to produce lightbulbs so even the poorest could afford it. H Ford dramatically reduced the price of cars and his model-T was even being produced at the rate of one every 24 seconds.

It doesnt do the capitalist to have poor workers. The more they can afford the more they can buy

[Ohloveeh]

Without the Socialistic elements in the founding of Australia's public sector in the early 20th century, this country would be a shell of what it is today. All of the so called benefits of Capitalism are derived from similar Socialistic elements which exist in ALL Western countries. A few examples being: Minimum wage, Public education and healthcare, and worker's right to strike and collectively bargain (although this has been undermined greatly).

[NicosMind]

@AnDizin And how did they get so much power? If it was by giving the consumer the best product possible then why complain? They were choosen by the millions of the people by their choices when they shop. VHS over betamax. Blueray over hd dvd. Its whenever government make the decisions over who thrives is when we have an injustice. Monopolies only ever exists when government guarantee their business. Taking money from the winners to prop up the losers(GM Motors)etc is morally & economically wrong

[NicosMind]

@AnDizine What percentage of a wage is taken off the poor to pay for the police, council services etc? Its a massive amount. And if theyre not happy they still have to pay. And the worst thing about it is that the poor dont decide how much of their wage to pay in taxes. Its taken from them. And then the poor have to pay taxes on everything else. Its not right to steal money out of their pockets to pay for wars either. This government that you so praise doesnt serve them but enslaves them!

[NicosMind]

@AnDi "Companies are beholden to investors"

Such a well "educated" statement there. I see you must be some sort of investor with a statement like that. And prey tell what percentage of companies are "beholden to investors"? I supose shareholders never get screwed.

Companies are beholden to themselves but most importantly they are beholden to their customers. If someone has been buying shoes from a company for 20yrs and finds a marginally better shoe somewhere else theyd drop them in a heart beat

[NicosMind]

Right im gonna end this at 26:19 cause im gonna write a small essay by the time this video ends. But he talks about feudalism. Back in the days of fudalism the serfs had to give 25% of what they earned to the lord and that was considered oppresive. Today we gave a hugh chunk of our wage to the government, pay taxes on everything we buy, and taxes for all sorts of services which we cant opt out of(council tax in the UK for one).The serfs were flying compared to how much government has enslaved us

[NicosMind]

Strawman after strawman after strawman. "The world is controled by a small elite of men"

Very true. Capitalsim is against letting a small elite control the world and make decisions. Things are meant to be drivin by the market. Ie by the millions of consumers on the market by their decisions(what they buy) and not by an elite. He then mentions war!!! Where the fuck is the competition there? Government created monopoly which expands solely to government. No dog eat dog there!

[NicosMind]

16:31 "Capitalism is a whole sick system. It requires war, it requires the destruction of the enviorment"

Lol i decided to watch this video cause i bet to myself that he was going to talk about mercantilism in the name of capitalism. Mercantilism the betterment of business by any means using the might of government. Rather than capitalism where businesses live and die trying to best serve the consumer. Every capitalist book ive read is against what he just said. Hes using a strawman =SYdJflb5ycA

[NicosMind]

@NicosMind Lol and what the fuck? Sexism, homphobia etc? What book and how does he explain capitalism needing sexism and homophobia to survive? Can he explain that? It doesnt even make sense lol. Maybe a theocracy would require those beliefs but even that isnt true yet its the only system i can think of which is applicable!

And all that shit about the far right and racism. Hitler, Stalin and Marx were all racist! Its nothing to do with capitalism or socialism!(Nazism is National Socialism)

[NicosMind]

The capitalist speaker... or rather the guy that spoke to 13.54 hasnt a clue about what cause this crisis and i bet even the banking system. However what cause the current crisis was nothing to do with capitalism at all!

Heres Peter Schiff not just prediciting the crisis but explaining in plain English why it was going to happen, and why it was going to be bad(last years not 1/4s)

watch?v=jj8rMwdQf6k

And heres Tom Woods giving a great(and funny)lecture on the many causes

watch?v=541bajR4k8g

[NicosMind]

@AnDizin And what happens if youre unhappy with all those services? Youre unhappy with your trash services, streetlights, police and airforce etc??? Are you able to take your money back? Are you able to stop paying for those services? Are you able to subscribe to different services whenever government has a monopoly and makes it illegal for competion because they want to "protect" you from "capitalists".

Government decides how much you should pay for all those services. Not you! Isnt that theft?

[AlphaGammaBrho]

Women aren't sex objects? Alright geed. Get a haircut.

[drummermylo]

Without competition, or without the dirty word "greed", then you're not going to ever have ever improving goods and services that are affordable to most people.

[gulbirk]

There is a system that uses both though. That takes the best from capitalism, and the best from socialism.

Its called social democrasy. 

[Chaaarge]

capitalism is the only moral system because it's the only system dedicated to the protection of individual rights. Man survives by reasoning, and therefore we must be free from the initiation of force. An important part of capitalism is the right to own property, which can be considered an extension of the right to life.In order to support yourself through reason and stay alive, you must be able to own and use the product of your labor. Socialism completely ignores this,

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge I agree partly. but capitalism is also original sin like. If your parents dont work, then in no system of capitalism will they be able to pay you through school.

So then you will be punished from their actions.

And dont say "Oh, but you can just get a job"". Because thats a MUST. I MUST have a job to cover housing and food. But over all, history shows us that less public insitutions and lower taxes do not benefit the majority.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk I happen to believe in an almost completely free economy (with minor anti fraud regulation), but the real question here was capitalism vs socialism. I'm pretty sure you would rather choose a society that trends more towards capitalism than socialism. Basically, capitalism allows you to own stuff privately, socialism doesn't. As far as high taxes, more / less regulation go, I personally believe taxes are stealing, and you don't have a right to a job, money etc...

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge Ok, so you believe that original sin is fair, great.

I believe that we should ALL pay taxes, so we all benefit from it. Because if we dont, our lifes are based on what are parents to.

I believe in "Different people, same uppertunity"".

As for regulations and restrictons. Without them we can pretty much just go kill ourselfe right now, because we already over use.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk If I produce something, it's mine, if I want to sell it, the money I make from it should therefore also be mine. And since it's my money, I should be able to give it to my kids if I want to. What do you mean by same opportunity? Do you mean that smart people have to be kept away from school so that they become dumber because they have too much of an opportunity? How about someone born stronger? should we forbid them from lifting weights? you said you wanted same opportunity

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge """Do you mean that smart people have to be kept away from school""" no, but you apperantly believe that only rich kids can be smart. I believe EVERYONE should be able to go to school

You suffer from something that I call being a compleate egoistic self caring person.

You ONLY care about yourself. Mine, mine mine mine mine, cant share, cant share, cant share.

Everyone SHOULD have the same opportunities, explain how my system takes AWAY peoples oppertunitys.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk what I ment was, let's say someone is born stronger or faster. They have a better opportunity at making it in for example sports. But you want the SAME opportunity for everyone, so would you keep that person away from sports? I don't think only rich kids can be smart, but in a free market, there'll be plenty of opportunity even for poor people to get schooling. I agree, I do only care about my own rational self interest. I do not believe anyone has the right to one cent of my earnings.

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge """but in a free market, there'll be plenty of opportunity even for poor people to get schoolin""" hahhahaha, bullshit.

It wasnt until public schools came, that normal people could actually go to school.

"""But you want the SAME opportunity for everyone, so would you keep that person away from sports?"""

Are you mentally challenged?

Same oppertunity means that no one is PREVENTED from doing it due to lack of money, since lack of money is inherited by their parents.

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge """but in a free market, there'll be plenty of opportunity even for poor people to get schoolin""" hahhahaha, bullshit.

It wasnt until public schools came, that normal people could actually go to school.

"""But you want the SAME opportunity for everyone, so would you keep that person away from sports?"""

Are you mentally challenged?

Same oppertunity means that no one is PREVENTED from doing it due to lack of money, since lack of money is inherited by their parents. 

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk what I ment was that they have a higher genetic potential for being athletic (like michael phelps), and therefore their genes give them a better opportunity over others. You must look at other things of value than just money if you want equal opportunity for everyone. I think your principle is wrong. And you shouldn't be able to inherit a "lack of money" since that would mean inheriting debt, I agree. but anything above 0 isn't "lack of money"

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk what about homeschooling? and why does it have to be a typical school? what about learning a trade like farming, cooking etc... Not everyone has to know history, math and so on...

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge hahahahha. Anything about 0 isnt lack, LOL.

YES IT FUCKING IS. Study history. I cant go to school then because they are private.

"""what about learning a trade like farming, cooking etc"" ROFL. Yeah, like we did back in the old days. Working class people stay poor and rich stay rich.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk You know what's causing the right to stay rich and poor to stay poor? it's not free markets, it's the fact that government is giving special privilidges to corporations. But that's not capitalism. The only way they can stay rich in real capitalism is if they produce something of value. And poor people used to be able to go to school back in the day. There were charity schools and homeschooling.

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge OMG.

Go study history for crying out loud. If you go back only 50 years it was NOT normal for people from working class families to get higher education.

EVERYONE went to grade school. Charity is for the lucky few that the rich suporters of the system wants to point out as a succes, when really its just a failure.

Its clear that pooverty is inherited.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk I don't know which country you're talking about. In the USA, higher education used to be cheaper than it is now, with more regulations and sanctions by the department of education. You could study and work a part time job and you could pay for it with no problem. since 1986, cost of education has skyrocketed compared to other inflationary items. one of the problems are government backed loans.

[gulbirk]

@Chaaarge I am talking about every single country outside of USA.

And I dont believe for a second that working class people took higher education in america before the 1940`s.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk and I don't mean that I never share. I will share if I want to share, and I have given money to certain charities of my choice because I wanted to. I just don't think anyone automatically has a right to my money.

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk If I produce something, it's mine, if I want to sell it, the money I make from it should therefore also be mine. And since it's my money, I should be able to give it to my kids if I want to. What do you mean by same opportunity? Do you mean that smart people have to be kept away from school so that they become dumber because they have too much of an opportunity? How about someone born stronger? should we forbid them from lifting weights? you said you wanted same opportunity

[Chaaarge]

@gulbirk I happen to believe in an almost completely free economy (with minor anti fraud regulation), but the real question here was capitalism vs socialism. I'm pretty sure you would rather choose a society that trends more towards capitalism than socialism. Basically, capitalism allows you to own stuff privately, socialism doesn't. As far as high taxes, more / less regulation go, I personally believe taxes are stealing, and you don't have a right to a job, money etc...

[janakag]

@AnDizine It takes a special kind of dumb fuck to support something without knowing what it is.

Congratulations!

[janakag]

@AnDizine Socialism is "means of production are owned by the workers." Whatever that means. Garbage collection, fire brigade and police forces and public services provided by local government via taxes. In a capitalist society there are many services that are more efficiently provided collectively, and they are, while there are many others that are not, and they are not.

[xFENRISx]

0:36:38

Ironically, there is a book entitled "the selfish gene" by evolutionary biologist Prof. Richard Dawkins in which he explains how humans posses natural traits such as selfishness due to our evolutionary history, and our need to acquire resources. In psychology though, we would look at such traits combined with environment to estimate behaviour. To what extent is human competitiveness influenced by our biology or our environment? Would we still be selfish if we already got all we needed?

[jumpnjza2]

The guy who talks at 33.41 is good!

[AttackTheSource1]

I was here watching this. It was so, so funny to see this guy fail over and over.

[CrazyContrero]

I love how the guy who backed up Capitalism ended his discussion with "well if the idea of Socialism is so great why doesn't the rest of society consider it?" which is a total fallacy haha! He was totally against the ropes in this debate it. Loved it!

[StevenMorello]

In that sense I think capitalism and government needs to be reformed, not overthrown. We don't yet have a dictatorship where that would be necessary. At least socialism has its heart in the right place, but I think if it could tone down its extremism it might find a few more supporters on the left.

[StevenMorello]

The government should be supporting workers rights and setting the framework for it to defend them against the corporations, not helping the already powerful corporates unfairly dismiss people, and reduce their pay in individual agreements.

[StevenMorello]

Unfortunately governments and big business are in bed together too much for them to serve the people well enough. Personally I think legislation and a reordering of priorities is required to create more equity. I think a balance between capitalism and socialism is required to provide work and fairness.

[StevenMorello]

Having said that, capitalism and government need to be reformed to serve the people better. Capitalism has many inherent weaknesses, and it has no inherent desire to care for people's needs. That is where the government is required to collect taxes and supply us with services that everyone needs.

[StevenMorello]

And when the socialists didn't like the regimes being associated with it, they claimed those weren't real socialists. So rather than a rational discussion, it was largely an emotional hate attack. There were some good ideas discussed, and valid criticisms of capitalism raised. The capitalist speaker did have some very weak points, but verbal abuse wasn't called for.

[StevenMorello]

I thought the socialists won this debate, but it was far from civilised. Instead of asking questions calmly, question time was used to whine, shout, throw accusations, and make claims as if the capitalist speaker was a criminal, rich banker ripping people off and denying them dialysis treatment.

[lathouxaris]

"We Communists have been reproached with the desire of abolishing the right of personally acquiring property as the fruit of a man’s own labour, which property is alleged to be the groundwork of all personal freedom, activity and independence.

Hard-won, self-acquired, self-earned property!

[lathouxaris]

He first speaker sounds rather reactionary, doesn't he?

[DarkSatanicMill]

Two questions, did this debate take place at an actual university, and if so, did these people just sit under a tree in between lectures, think about all the things they enjoy about their lifestyle, attribute them to capitalism, then generalize it out to everyone's experience? Wow.

[jumpnjza2]

Stand in solidarity with Polish workers in the 1980's? LOL. Solidarnosc was a right-wing, CIA-backed, Vatican-supported, proto-fascist & anti-semitic movement that succeeded in destroying the progressive property relations the Polish people had.

[jumpnjza2]

What is it to be an Australian? Lol, what a wank.