We are currently in Santa Fe and are going to the chapel today. One thing that surprises me, frankly, is that the builders and architects of the church didn't foresee, when they were drawing up the plans, this problem of reaching the choir loft. The stories I have read seem to insinuate that they completed the church and then realized that they couldn't reach the loft. If that's true it surprises me.
Beware the "most holy familymonastery" (MHFM) people. Despite how they present themselves they are not Catholic. They mix interesting truths with lies to broadcast their venemous propagandas bashing & trashing the R Catholic Church. You do not need them to learn the best the Catholic church has to offer.
This link is that airing of the "Unsolved Mysteries" segment which features the sacred staircase. Whether or not divine intervention is responsible for the staircase's creation, I try to bear no concern: the legend is enough for me, but most important for me is the skillful mastery resulting to the structural integrity that makes it a marvel. Let's please appreciate it either way.
This "miracle" was featured in the 80's on an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries". I would remember it, randomly from time to time, but I haven't thought of it for a while; thanks for returning this memory to me.
However, I need to criticize: The music is pretty hokie, but I guess it's a track you felt compelled to go with to tie in the mood to the location of the structure, or something. I can see past the text, it didn't take away from what people came to view and admire.
actualy its pretty obvious how this is made...the old fashion morter and cimaises making it hold as a whole instead of hanging to a support. its simply a piece of sculpture of incredible precision. it's a piece of art carpentry, but no miracle.
Interesting but i did not finish the video because of the large text. And the picture has ripples of water. Next time please make the video more simple.
Beautiful staircase, but there are viable explanations for this "phenomenon." Please don't be a lazy thinker and write this off as a miracle. Human beings are granted with the gift of reason.. please exercise it. The legend is maintained to bring in tourists and their money. Read below and see what kotok123 had to say; I agree with him/her.
You got that straight off of Wikipedia, firstplumbline- word for word. This IS in fact an unexplainable phenomenon.
My uncle visited it (he is a superintendent of a major construction firm with 40+ years experience), and he said that there is no way to explain it. He also said that architects come from all around the world and desperately try to explain this to no avail.
And also, how would you even explain not using a single nail or glue of any kind, on top of everything else? You can't.
Thats is bull. No person in the construction industry would say that. Do you think humans always had nails? The japanese have hundreds of wood joining techniques. dove tail, dido joints, mortise and tenon.
Engineers, Architects, and Contractors solve more difficult solutions everyday.
You can do the same thing with a piece of paper, only it won't support nearly the same loads.
However, this staircase does have a concealed central support, an inner wood stringer of a very small radius that, because of its small size, functions effectively as a central pole. This technique is well known. The staircase also has an additional outer support to one of the columns that support the loft. The staircase is made of spruce, but insufficient sampling makes it impossible to conclusively affirm (or deny) the source of this wood.
As to its apparent ability to stand without a central support, this argument proceeds on a faulty premise that all spiral staircases need a central support. In fact, they do not, and lateral or outer supports work just as well.
More recent studies show that there is very little that is "miraculous" about the staircase. It is arguably unsafe since its helix shape makes it oscillate just like a very large spring. The railing, too, was a subsequent addition.
Im a believer, but when it comes down to marketing well,,,,you can clearly see a bar attaching the staircase to a pillar 1:55 ??? I hate it when people point out things like this,,,,,,but certainly im curious for the metal bar/arm holding together the pillar and staircase
i dont think they'll let u, but if u go on a specil visit, they probably will, n i think ur damn lucky, i wish i coud, but wait, which mar auraha?? where u live at?
you know what i dont understand? there has alway been murder and war and hunger and disease in this world but what did 'god" sent a st down to do? to build a staircase that was his cause a STAIRCASE?!
and there is nothing special about it ok I relize it was a long time ago but people have down so many things that are amazing they have sent someone to the moon for fucks sakes I think no matter how long ago that a person could figure out how to make a staircase without a centerpost COME ON!
ok, i have to disagree, God sent his sts to show that himself, i mean that **exits, n about the hunger n wars n those kinda stuff, i've been in it, i knw wat war is, not the one on TV, the real one, n i knw wat is it to see a head in the street when goin to school, and i knw wat is it when a 5 yrs old kid doesnt find anythin to feed his mouth but anyways, we r livin in a world when a conflict= action n good stories, i mean ** surly dont want this to happene, but we're simply disobeying *** will
I understand what you are saying and my comment was not and insult to you you are free to belive in anything you want to and infact I myself belive in god just not this story and the point i am trying to make is that why does he anwser the prayer of someone asking for a staircase but not when people are diying all over the world why does he mircles happen over things that wont shake the world?
No one could really explain the truth behind this marvelous structure. It's really up to you on what you want to believe. Even though a man named Mr. Francois-James Rochas designed a similar figure in a smaller scale using known tools during those times. There are no hard evidence whether or not he was the one behind this. Even if he is the one, where did the tools come from? Where did this unknown material come from? How was it stable even before the reconstructions? Believe or don't believe.
Definitely, you ain't gotta ask me for a permission but I appreciate that you did. That's pretty cool of you. The information is out there and it just so happens that when my aunt showed a video about the stairs. I was blown away and facinated since I'm both high religious and skeptic. I tried exploring answers through science, mathematics and history through the eyes of the experts who have been there. None of them came to a conclusion, so they too can only say, maybe it was St. Joseph himself.
I'm both religious and a skeptic and this by far is the most intriguing mystery to me. With all the research I've done and the results of other researchers, scientist and experts alike. None of us could really find an answer to what the material is really made out of. It is non-native wood, that is all what the experts can say. Sure it's a highly stable staircase now, but only because an outer railing was put in. The original construction is what fascinates everyone, on how in can stand strong.
What really fascinates me about this is that the Novena did took place and it was amazing how right after the last day of the Novena, a stranger in need of a Job, who happens to look homeless with a mule and some tools, suddenly appeared on their door step. The only thing this man requested was complete privacy. Three months later, this was found and no sign of the man. No evidence of any delivery of any wooden materials.
You have the whole internet to look up the all your questions for you. the builder is well documented on several sites. What i find appalling is that the lorretto chapel site is still concealing the history which doesn't give credit to the original builder. spiral stairs go all the way back to castles and helical stairs were around in the 13th century. most were built out of stone which has less tensile strength than wood. look into bramante off the top of my head.
You ostensibly keep strictly to the objective facts, but offer no factual support for your opinion. You assert that the nuns and everyone else conspired together to hide the origin of the staircase? Your view strains credulity more than the faith of the nuns'.
..Moreover, faith accepts something as true based upon a source that one considers authoritative, and probabilities extended from known facts, not upon objective facts themselves. You have thus far offered only your opinion and no verifiable facts. Do you ask then that your authority be accepted by all, as a matter of faith?
You're free to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe that St. Joseph materialized out of thin air and built this staircase out of magical unidentiified wood that stands up thanks to prayers you can. But I am going on my professional opinion that it is not a miracle and that the claims in the video are overly dramatic. Please read about it on Wikipedia, Snopes or any other sites.
What you should understand though, is that its a tourist trap that brings in a lot of money to the chapel
Your "professional opinion..." departs from ordinary religious faith only by its rejection of the best available facts, the testimony of the community at the time of the event. But it is faith nonetheless. The facts do not prove the miracle, but the miracle is less offensive to reason. Faith and reason, if fully human, are inextricably joined. Faith without reason is simply irresponsible; reason without faith is stunted and lacks a conscience. Both easily turn murderous.
Their is also a builder of record on the stairs. Architects back then worked on the jobsite a lot more and often worked things out in the field. I read somewhere that architect died during construction which could explain why there were no stairs. The stairs were most likely prefabricated in a shop which could explain why the wood wasn't local.
most architect and engineers would take one look at that, even back then and realize the the tight radius of the inner stringer acts as a center post.
Sorry to take the religiousity out of the mystery. I do get a little mad though when religious people rationalize their reasons for stretching the truth. There really isn't any evidence of any miracles so far. yet all religions like to claim them because it makes people believe.
Please, who is the builder of record? You propose that the nuns and everyone else lied about the carpenter working on site? Where is there another staircase built to equivalent specs in the entire world? Please be specific. It appears that your desire not to believe has overpowered your objectivity.
I think it is rochas or something like that. - the builder that is. I don't know where there is a staircase built just like it. But the technology was around for hundreds of years before this staircase so I find it hard to believe that their wasn't similar ones built in the same time period. Don't forget that it is wood and that a centerpost is more structurally sound. So finding one like it that wasn't torn down a hundred years later could be very hard.
What you need to understand is that this is a tourist trap that brings a lot of money into the chapel. They have a motive to stretch the truth if it brings tourism in. I don't profit off telling people the truth. You should look up some other miracles that people want to claim since it justifies their beliefs. Look at the watch?v=xfRoJxv3nbY and tell me whether you think its a miracle, Please comment on this miracle. If you find other miracles I would like to see them as well.
nah dude, i think thats stupid.... the idea that hindu still believe in made-up goddeses just dont get in ma mind, not only me tho, but many others....
I agree, but I was trying to point out to Hport. that a lot of religions claim miracles that we might be skeptical of. I read that scientist figured out the milk miracle, but the indian government swept it under the rug.
The 33 steps are really just the result of a calculation. In this case they chose to go with 8" risers which is pretty steep, but perhaps their wasn't enough room to go with 34 treads. That and the fact that they don't really know how old jesus was and there are 4 or 5 theories out their that have him between 30 and 40 years old.
Most ot the other claims about the miracle stairs aren't true or are stretched for tourism purposes.
Spiral stairs & helical stairs date back a long time.
We are currently in Santa Fe and are going to the chapel today. One thing that surprises me, frankly, is that the builders and architects of the church didn't foresee, when they were drawing up the plans, this problem of reaching the choir loft. The stories I have read seem to insinuate that they completed the church and then realized that they couldn't reach the loft. If that's true it surprises me.
WA5CVI 2 months ago
wow' long freakin start
FunnyAnimations 2 months ago
maybe it was jesus who built the stairs...he was a carpenter also
Midnightryder7 3 months ago
Can some1 tell me whats the name of that song? it is awsome i cant stop listening, btw stairs look nice :D
TheDruid45 4 months ago
i want to go see the stair for my self :)
xxC00KI3M0N5T3Rxx1 5 months ago
You spelled miracle wrong in the title.
ducktapegirlshcr 8 months ago
ARGH!!! Someone tell us the song name!!! >:( i'm dying to get this song!!!
pengy94 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Beware the "most holy familymonastery" (MHFM) people. Despite how they present themselves they are not Catholic. They mix interesting truths with lies to broadcast their venemous propagandas bashing & trashing the R Catholic Church. You do not need them to learn the best the Catholic church has to offer.
chimay131 9 months ago
@MrChaldeanPrince
...and all believers and non-believers:
This link is that airing of the "Unsolved Mysteries" segment which features the sacred staircase. Whether or not divine intervention is responsible for the staircase's creation, I try to bear no concern: the legend is enough for me, but most important for me is the skillful mastery resulting to the structural integrity that makes it a marvel. Let's please appreciate it either way.
Here it is: /watch?v=WSb-B-uHDv4
junkshun626 11 months ago
@MrChaldeanPrince
This "miracle" was featured in the 80's on an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries". I would remember it, randomly from time to time, but I haven't thought of it for a while; thanks for returning this memory to me.
However, I need to criticize: The music is pretty hokie, but I guess it's a track you felt compelled to go with to tie in the mood to the location of the structure, or something. I can see past the text, it didn't take away from what people came to view and admire.
junkshun626 11 months ago
actualy its pretty obvious how this is made...the old fashion morter and cimaises making it hold as a whole instead of hanging to a support. its simply a piece of sculpture of incredible precision. it's a piece of art carpentry, but no miracle.
TexanBurgler 11 months ago
Francois-Jean Rochas, "Loretto: The Sisters and Their Santa Fe Chapel." by historian Mary J. Straw Cook. Great video. Keep up the great work.
Topazman12 1 year ago
amazing story
basiuchna1 1 year ago
Interesting but i did not finish the video because of the large text. And the picture has ripples of water. Next time please make the video more simple.
Thanks.
jaysonpana 1 year ago
@jaysonpana well next time i hope i see smarter people watchin videos
MrChaldeanPrince 1 year ago
@MrChaldeanPrince well you're so nice. Aren't you happy with my suggestion?
jaysonpana 1 year ago
@MrChaldeanPrince Well, I also hope next time I see a smarter video editing.
jaysonpana 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrChaldeanPrince Well, I also hope next time I see a smarter video editing.
jaysonpana 1 year ago
Its true the railing had been added later!
n057828 1 year ago
Comment removed
MystykShade 1 year ago
muy buen video, musica y contenido
dirk26 1 year ago
just search loretto chapel on google, the staircase does have central support, and outer support.
nkdboy2011 1 year ago
whats the song name?
SiRTyner 2 years ago
Beautiful staircase, but there are viable explanations for this "phenomenon." Please don't be a lazy thinker and write this off as a miracle. Human beings are granted with the gift of reason.. please exercise it. The legend is maintained to bring in tourists and their money. Read below and see what kotok123 had to say; I agree with him/her.
MostYourBase 2 years ago
what song?
SiRTyner 2 years ago
You got that straight off of Wikipedia, firstplumbline- word for word. This IS in fact an unexplainable phenomenon.
My uncle visited it (he is a superintendent of a major construction firm with 40+ years experience), and he said that there is no way to explain it. He also said that architects come from all around the world and desperately try to explain this to no avail.
And also, how would you even explain not using a single nail or glue of any kind, on top of everything else? You can't.
0SarahJayne0 2 years ago
@0SarahJayne0
Thats is bull. No person in the construction industry would say that. Do you think humans always had nails? The japanese have hundreds of wood joining techniques. dove tail, dido joints, mortise and tenon.
Engineers, Architects, and Contractors solve more difficult solutions everyday.
You can do the same thing with a piece of paper, only it won't support nearly the same loads.
shadowpirate100 2 years ago
J'aimerais bien connaitre un jour cet endroit. congratulations for this video.!!!
Happersberger 2 years ago
However, this staircase does have a concealed central support, an inner wood stringer of a very small radius that, because of its small size, functions effectively as a central pole. This technique is well known. The staircase also has an additional outer support to one of the columns that support the loft. The staircase is made of spruce, but insufficient sampling makes it impossible to conclusively affirm (or deny) the source of this wood.
firstplumbline 2 years ago
As to its apparent ability to stand without a central support, this argument proceeds on a faulty premise that all spiral staircases need a central support. In fact, they do not, and lateral or outer supports work just as well.
firstplumbline 2 years ago
More recent studies show that there is very little that is "miraculous" about the staircase. It is arguably unsafe since its helix shape makes it oscillate just like a very large spring. The railing, too, was a subsequent addition.
firstplumbline 2 years ago
Im a believer, but when it comes down to marketing well,,,,you can clearly see a bar attaching the staircase to a pillar 1:55 ??? I hate it when people point out things like this,,,,,,but certainly im curious for the metal bar/arm holding together the pillar and staircase
dirk26 2 years ago
my mother visited this place when she was a child. nice video real interesting.
svcreeper 2 years ago
Not a bad song choice for the video, but the visual effects and giant text kinda killed much of the interest in viewing this.
Dervius 2 years ago
You should re-title your video "How not to ruin an interesting video with annoying text."
onuess 2 years ago 11
i dont see a point of u trying to be cool, like u knw something
anyways, thanx
i did my best in doin it, u like it, cool, u dont, up too u, i cant change nothin
MrChaldeanPrince 2 years ago
@MrChaldeanPrince i dont think that it was your best, anyone could do an annoying text longer
guitarforsken 1 year ago 4
mar auraha in phoenix arizona
\
mkhorany 2 years ago
hey chaldean prince I'm a chaldo myself i just wanna say i believe in this 100%
matter fact my church mar auraha is going to new mexico to visit it and I'm going
thats why i was watching this video to see what to expect
i hope we can walk on the stairs
mkhorany 2 years ago
i dont think they'll let u, but if u go on a specil visit, they probably will, n i think ur damn lucky, i wish i coud, but wait, which mar auraha?? where u live at?
MrChaldeanPrince 2 years ago
this is just what I think I dont want to start anything and I respect anyone else's views I could be wrong I guess no one really knows for sure...
92Funny 2 years ago
you know what i dont understand? there has alway been murder and war and hunger and disease in this world but what did 'god" sent a st down to do? to build a staircase that was his cause a STAIRCASE?!
and there is nothing special about it ok I relize it was a long time ago but people have down so many things that are amazing they have sent someone to the moon for fucks sakes I think no matter how long ago that a person could figure out how to make a staircase without a centerpost COME ON!
92Funny 2 years ago
ok, i have to disagree, God sent his sts to show that himself, i mean that **exits, n about the hunger n wars n those kinda stuff, i've been in it, i knw wat war is, not the one on TV, the real one, n i knw wat is it to see a head in the street when goin to school, and i knw wat is it when a 5 yrs old kid doesnt find anythin to feed his mouth but anyways, we r livin in a world when a conflict= action n good stories, i mean ** surly dont want this to happene, but we're simply disobeying *** will
MrChaldeanPrince 2 years ago
I understand what you are saying and my comment was not and insult to you you are free to belive in anything you want to and infact I myself belive in god just not this story and the point i am trying to make is that why does he anwser the prayer of someone asking for a staircase but not when people are diying all over the world why does he mircles happen over things that wont shake the world?
92Funny 2 years ago
cuz simply that the world wont shake by them, if u get it, anyways, i dont knw wanna open any kinda argument in here, so yaa
MrChaldeanPrince 2 years ago
this IS a miricale
JulianalovesLadyGaGa 2 years ago
Does anybody know what the music is to this video?
Kentagurna 2 years ago
"Enae Volare Mezzo" by "ERA"
MrChaldeanPrince 2 years ago
Thanks so much!
Kentagurna 2 years ago
No one could really explain the truth behind this marvelous structure. It's really up to you on what you want to believe. Even though a man named Mr. Francois-James Rochas designed a similar figure in a smaller scale using known tools during those times. There are no hard evidence whether or not he was the one behind this. Even if he is the one, where did the tools come from? Where did this unknown material come from? How was it stable even before the reconstructions? Believe or don't believe.
DatxFlipxBoixRon 3 years ago
wow dude, u rock, thanx for thee info, n can i use it to put it on the video description, cuz it woud be great...
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
Definitely, you ain't gotta ask me for a permission but I appreciate that you did. That's pretty cool of you. The information is out there and it just so happens that when my aunt showed a video about the stairs. I was blown away and facinated since I'm both high religious and skeptic. I tried exploring answers through science, mathematics and history through the eyes of the experts who have been there. None of them came to a conclusion, so they too can only say, maybe it was St. Joseph himself.
DatxFlipxBoixRon 3 years ago
I'm both religious and a skeptic and this by far is the most intriguing mystery to me. With all the research I've done and the results of other researchers, scientist and experts alike. None of us could really find an answer to what the material is really made out of. It is non-native wood, that is all what the experts can say. Sure it's a highly stable staircase now, but only because an outer railing was put in. The original construction is what fascinates everyone, on how in can stand strong.
DatxFlipxBoixRon 3 years ago
What really fascinates me about this is that the Novena did took place and it was amazing how right after the last day of the Novena, a stranger in need of a Job, who happens to look homeless with a mule and some tools, suddenly appeared on their door step. The only thing this man requested was complete privacy. Three months later, this was found and no sign of the man. No evidence of any delivery of any wooden materials.
DatxFlipxBoixRon 3 years ago
Kotok123,
Where else, in the entire world, is there another staircase like this one - built to entirely equivalent specifications. Please be specific.
Joseph P.
HPortiers 3 years ago
You have the whole internet to look up the all your questions for you. the builder is well documented on several sites. What i find appalling is that the lorretto chapel site is still concealing the history which doesn't give credit to the original builder. spiral stairs go all the way back to castles and helical stairs were around in the 13th century. most were built out of stone which has less tensile strength than wood. look into bramante off the top of my head.
kotok123 3 years ago
You ostensibly keep strictly to the objective facts, but offer no factual support for your opinion. You assert that the nuns and everyone else conspired together to hide the origin of the staircase? Your view strains credulity more than the faith of the nuns'.
HPortiers 3 years ago
..Moreover, faith accepts something as true based upon a source that one considers authoritative, and probabilities extended from known facts, not upon objective facts themselves. You have thus far offered only your opinion and no verifiable facts. Do you ask then that your authority be accepted by all, as a matter of faith?
HPortiers 3 years ago
You're free to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe that St. Joseph materialized out of thin air and built this staircase out of magical unidentiified wood that stands up thanks to prayers you can. But I am going on my professional opinion that it is not a miracle and that the claims in the video are overly dramatic. Please read about it on Wikipedia, Snopes or any other sites.
What you should understand though, is that its a tourist trap that brings in a lot of money to the chapel
kotok123 3 years ago 2
Kotok123,
Your "professional opinion..." departs from ordinary religious faith only by its rejection of the best available facts, the testimony of the community at the time of the event. But it is faith nonetheless. The facts do not prove the miracle, but the miracle is less offensive to reason. Faith and reason, if fully human, are inextricably joined. Faith without reason is simply irresponsible; reason without faith is stunted and lacks a conscience. Both easily turn murderous.
HPortiers 3 years ago
Their is also a builder of record on the stairs. Architects back then worked on the jobsite a lot more and often worked things out in the field. I read somewhere that architect died during construction which could explain why there were no stairs. The stairs were most likely prefabricated in a shop which could explain why the wood wasn't local.
most architect and engineers would take one look at that, even back then and realize the the tight radius of the inner stringer acts as a center post.
kotok123 3 years ago
wow, thanx for the info dude, n i believe ur right in every word :D
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
thanks.
kotok123 3 years ago
Thanks, Kotok, for taking the religiosity out of the mystery. It's still a wonder, but an explainable one. Ruthkando
RUTHKANDO 3 years ago 2
Sorry to take the religiousity out of the mystery. I do get a little mad though when religious people rationalize their reasons for stretching the truth. There really isn't any evidence of any miracles so far. yet all religions like to claim them because it makes people believe.
kotok123 3 years ago 2
Kotok123,
Please, who is the builder of record? You propose that the nuns and everyone else lied about the carpenter working on site? Where is there another staircase built to equivalent specs in the entire world? Please be specific. It appears that your desire not to believe has overpowered your objectivity.
HPortiers 3 years ago
I think it is rochas or something like that. - the builder that is. I don't know where there is a staircase built just like it. But the technology was around for hundreds of years before this staircase so I find it hard to believe that their wasn't similar ones built in the same time period. Don't forget that it is wood and that a centerpost is more structurally sound. So finding one like it that wasn't torn down a hundred years later could be very hard.
kotok123 3 years ago
What you need to understand is that this is a tourist trap that brings a lot of money into the chapel. They have a motive to stretch the truth if it brings tourism in. I don't profit off telling people the truth. You should look up some other miracles that people want to claim since it justifies their beliefs. Look at the watch?v=xfRoJxv3nbY and tell me whether you think its a miracle, Please comment on this miracle. If you find other miracles I would like to see them as well.
kotok123 3 years ago 2
nah dude, i think thats stupid.... the idea that hindu still believe in made-up goddeses just dont get in ma mind, not only me tho, but many others....
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
I agree, but I was trying to point out to Hport. that a lot of religions claim miracles that we might be skeptical of. I read that scientist figured out the milk miracle, but the indian government swept it under the rug.
kotok123 3 years ago 2
well whateverr, they dont deserve to have miracles..... besides miracles tho, there is sceince. so think about that
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
freaky !
htownbowler1988 3 years ago
Thats real!
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
does anyone knows the name of the song/remix?
it would be very helpful!
juanpepejohns 3 years ago
its called, "Enae Volare Mezzo" by "ERA" n if u want more awsome songs like that one, just search for "Era" u'll find more better ones
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
Yeah! my brother showed it to me ages ago but i couldnt find it anywhere in english! so yeah thanks again!
xoAnniieexo 3 years ago
Wow thats amazing. especially the part about how many steps there were! thanks for uploading!
xoAnniieexo 3 years ago
yup ur welcome, but thats a true story u knw...
MrChaldeanPrince 3 years ago
The 33 steps are really just the result of a calculation. In this case they chose to go with 8" risers which is pretty steep, but perhaps their wasn't enough room to go with 34 treads. That and the fact that they don't really know how old jesus was and there are 4 or 5 theories out their that have him between 30 and 40 years old.
Most ot the other claims about the miracle stairs aren't true or are stretched for tourism purposes.
Spiral stairs & helical stairs date back a long time.
kotok123 3 years ago
are you trying to say that Jesus doesn't exist and he didn't build it
your trying to be smart but face it kotok 123 Jesus built it
ieatgrenades271 3 years ago
loot flesruoy kcuf og
kotok123 3 years ago