Questioning Atheists about Paranormal and UFO Phenomena

[xdassinx]

I'm ok with Unidentified Flying Objects. It's when it turns into "I know it was a flying saucer" I've got a problem.

Being Military doesn't automatically make you an expert on identifying objects in the sky.

But, I will say there's better compelling testimony for visiting aliens then magical sky pixies who father themselves only to sacrifice themselves to themselves only to turn into holy zombies three days later. 

[julzabro]

@xdassinx Lol! Well said!

[troydeancarpenter]

I think people can discover if ghosts are real a whole lot faster if they chain smoke cigarettes and eat out at fast food restaurants too much.

[julzabro]

@troydeancarpenter Wow! Such a thoughtful comment!

[delicflower]

hey, i know this video is kinda older and you did make a follow-up on it. But I'd still like to put in my two cents: As an atheist I never struggled with the idea that ufo's or aliens could exist. In fact, I have personal knowledge of such things. Paranormal things I am still iffy on, even after a very terrifying experience that had items in my apt being dragged on the floor by unseen hands/forces. God doesn't have to be part in any of that, and isn't.

[julzabro]

@delicflower Thanx for adding your 2 cents! ;) I agree that there doesn't need to be a god involved in these things and I think many atheists have not considered this. I would love to hear about your personal knowledge of these things and more about your paranormal experience.

[100peppard]

UFO's are not real - just think about it logicaly - crossing vast amounts of time and space just to hover over a planet then leaving...dont make much sense does it? and ghosts well imagine spending an eternity stuck in a bathroom trying to scare people.....Think just THINK!

[julzabro]

@100peppard Lol!

[julzabro]

Also notable of Occam's Razor, "...on many occasions Occam's razor has stifled or delayed scientific progress. For example, appeals to simplicity were used to deny the phenomena of meteorites, ball lightning, continental drift, and reverse transcriptase. It originally rejected DNA as the carrier of genetic information in favor of proteins, since proteins provided the simpler explanation. Theories that reach far beyond the available data are rare, but general relativity provides one example."

[Hopeful71]

Just like there is no proof of "no god" there is no proof of "no ghost, no UFO, no etc."

Things that don't have an available natural explanation is not evidence of the supernatural, it is simply evidence of the unexplained.

EG-phenomenon 'X' COULD be an alien, ghost, swamp gas, a hallucination, or a flying pig. Why assume it is one of those until you have concrete evidence to take you that way?

Because you FEEL a need to have answers. That is not rational; learn to live with ambiguity

[julzabro]

@Hopeful71 I like ur phrase "evidence of the unexplained" It's kind of an oxy moron but is so fitting here! And, btw, I am not assuming anything and feeling or desiring answers is always better than believing in whatever others believe or making answers up for things we don't know!

[pkiverson]

I don't believe the claims I've heard about aliens and ghosts because they're always somewhat clouded in mystery. If aliens had actually visited earth, or ghosts actually existed, you would think there would be a lot more solid evidence.

I think by just sheer probability there are likely other lifeforms somewhere in the Universe, but I've never heard any concrete evidence for their existence. Until some better evidence is presented, I don't believe the claims.

[julzabro]

@pkiverson Thanx for the response! What do u think would be valid evidence for these things?

[pkiverson]

@julzabro In either the case of aliens or ghosts, it would be nice if Katie Couric interviewed one on the CBS Evening News. :-)

I think in the case of ghosts, audio/video evidence is somewhat unconvincing. Perhaps if a ghost of a dead person revealed something that only that person could have known during their lives - which corresponded to something in real life. For example, if a murder victim's ghost revealed the very hidden location of their body & their killer's name.

[julzabro]

@pkiverson Hasn't that. allegedly, happened before?

[pkiverson]

@julzabro Aliens are a lot easier to prove, since they are supposedly real, physical living beings. I think if we were able to interact with them in some way - whether that's recieving radio transmissions of prime numbers from a distant galaxy, or being able to run tests on one that had come to earth in a laboratory.

[Pelonetillo]

no, i wouldnt say theres proof of no ghosts or aliens. aliens would not surprise me as there is already proof of life on one planet: ours--the universe is a big place with lots of planets. ghosts, translucent dead people walkin around, im skeptical of. when youre dead, youre dead.

[julzabro]

@Pelonetillo So 4 u aliens maybe but ghosts no. I agree theres probably more possibility for aliens than ghosts. I think, as an atheist, ghosts having the tie to religion they do, makes them even harder to fathom as possibly existing. but they may npt be tied to religion if they are really something more scientific or natural then we know about yet,

[Pelonetillo]

@julzabro i can see if its like, people from other dimensions or something. dead people though, thats just silly to me. the body is necessary for our conciousness.

[julzabro]

@Pelonetillo I appreciate your thoughts on this! How do u know the body is necessary for conciousness or is that just a theory?

[Pelonetillo]

because memory and awareness are completely dependent on how our brain functions. for instance, when the head sustains injury or someone is intoxicated, their consciousness is not in tact--the body and mind are one.

[julzabro]

@Pelonetillo I agree mostly but how do u know that when ur dead ur dead? Have u died? lol! or, as the skeptics would say, where's ur proof?

[DeimosSaturn]

There are an infinite number of things that can potentially/possibly exist (so long as they are not internally inconsistent i.e.: a square circle or a black photon). Cthulhu might exist. Invisible pink unicorns. A transdimensional crystaloid. Flying Saucers from Zeta Reticuli. Until there is solid empirical evidence, NOT testimonials, NOT blurry video or even crystal clear video (because that can be faked), NOT anecdotes, all we can discuss are probabilities (such as the Drake equation).

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I agree except that there have been claims of photos and videos that could not be debunked as faked yet they are ignored. And my intention is not to claim that these things exist nor that I believe they do NOR to believe anything without evidence...the question is WHAT shall we consider valid evidence if all that u mentioned is anecdotal? And while I agree that it is anectdotal...how do we scientifically test for this and what would it take for those results to be irrefutable?

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro You are misinterpreting all the supposed photos of UFOs are "could not be debunked as fake". No report exists that says there is a list of UFO sightings that "could not be debunked as fakes/hoaxes". There is however a list of UFO sightings that was put out by the military that were "inconclusive".

Even the term "UFO" itself implies the possibility it is something entirely mundane but not yet fully understood. e.g. ball lightning.

[DeimosSaturn]

Now you ask what I would consider evidence of extraterrestrial visitors (NOT Unidentified Flying Objects. Keep in mind, I acknowledge the existence of photos of as-of-yet UNIDENTIFIED entities/phenomenon in the sky).

How about an actual crashed flying saucer? Or a dead alien body? Or even a drop of alien blood? A piece of technology that is too advanced for humans to have come up with at this point in our history? Is that too much to ask for?

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I think it's good ur open to yet unidentified UFOs. I'll have to research this but I think they do have, what appears to be a manmade material that is foreign here as well as natural materials (i.e. minerals) that are not from here. And considering the amount of gov. cover up with this, isn't possible that any alien body and/or blood would be cleansed before we get there?

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I agree but inconclusive does not mean debunked as being faked...it means we don't know. I would find it hard to call UFOs lightening however I am open to the idea that they may be something natural or other than what we think they r. Either way, imho, they deserve study. Thanx for ur great replies!...;0)

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn Even when considering researching this...which I have...I am conflicted with knowing undoubtedly what source could be trusted. Not being a scientist myself nor having money to buy equipment that I may need to verify for myself these things, I will have to rely on others who have. Their credibility and techniques will undoubtedly be argued.

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro The simple fact is this: There are many phenomenon in the universe which are real that humans have no clue about. There could be something geological or meteorological that causes orbs or saucers to appear in the sky that zip around like bumble bees. Or it could be something optical that happens inside of cameras and eyes but not actually in the sky. That would be far more likely than life evolving on another planet, that life then (continued)

[DeimosSaturn]

evolving intelligence capable of surviving the gauntlet of cataclysmic events that face any intelligent race of beings (war, disease, politics, religion, asteroid collisions, gamma-ray bursters, super novas) not to mention the sheer improbability of developing Super Luminal transport technology in order to span the VAST distances between star systems only to avoid open contact for decades or centuries. It's even more likely than (continued)

[DeimosSaturn]

interdimensional forces that can only manifest as flying saucers or big-headed gray humanoids that seem to only be interested in sexually torturing and terrifying random people with no eye-witnesses or physical traces of evidence other than the victims of the supposed abduction.

Occam's razor!

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn About this Occam's razor u all keep bringing up. 2 things, #1), "In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic, and certainly not a scientific result."Wiki. #2) Did u know that William of Ockham said, "“For nothing ought to be posited without a reason given, unless it is self-evident (literally, known through itself) or known by experience or proved by the authority of Sacred Scripture.”

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn For Ockham, the only truly necessary entity is God; everything else, the whole of creation, is radically contingent through and through. In short, Ockham does not accept the Principle of Sufficient Reason. Wikipedia

I agree with the simplicity of Occam's razor that the simplest explaination is usually correct but......

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn ....." in order to have even justified Occam's Razor, a scientist must first identify "the correct explanation". Obviously this must be accomplished using other aspects of the Scientific method besides the Razor itself (or else we would be making a circular argument to support the Razor)." Wiki

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn So maybe we ought to reconsider Occam's Razor especially for this type of phenomenon and just allow ourselves to formulate reasonable theories with which to study/research if we r so inclined.

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro But naturalistic explanations already DO exist. And if they DON'T then you can't then very well start crying "LITTLE GREEN MEN!" That's how I mean Occam's Razor. We are weighing the LIKELIHOOD of each of the hypotheses. Which is more likely: Some as-of-yet not-understood meteorological phenomenon? Interdimensional/Interplanetar­y visitors who have masters superluminal/transdimensional transport? Some as-of-yet not-understood phenomenon of optics?

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I'm not suggesting that we deduce little green men simply cuz other explanations do not yet exist only that we should be open to all possibilities. Sure, natural/scientific explanation is more likely and we should begin by looking for those types of answers, but I don't think it would objective to rule out other lfie forms. My fear is that science will ignore what is dubbed as UfOs due to the stigma of the term and not study these incidents.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I don't think anyone has ever documented or prooved that UFOs are "interdimensional forces" or "big-headed gray humanoids...only interested in sexually torturing" There have been cases were more than just the victim's testimony has been given for evidence....i.e the abductee was gone for weeks after being abducted and OTHERS witnessed the abduction and then was found naked or the people who have foreign metal imbedded in them.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I agree there is much that science needs to learn still and the alien/ghost phenomenon may be nothing more than a natural phenomenon. I don't know that life evolving on other planets is so far fetched though considering they just found a life sustaining planet.

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro "I don't know that life evolving on other planets is so far fetched though considering they just found a life sustaining planet."

First of all, exactly ZERO planets capable of sustaining life have been "found". A planet that according to observations from dozens of lightyears away orbits within the Goldilocks zone of a red dwarf has been indirectly observed by astronomy instruments. I read the story too.

[DeimosSaturn]

Second, The entire scientific community does not agree this planet could support life for the simple fact that it is tidally locked with its host star, meaning only one hemisphere of the planet ever faces the star while the other is in permanent night. No thorough simulations have been done that show the weather on such a planet could be hospitable or inhospitable.

[DeimosSaturn]

Third, I never said it was far fetched or even unlikely for life IN GENERAL to evolve on other worlds. If I were a betting man, I would bet everything on life emerging on other worlds independent of earth. HOWEVER, it is a massive leap to then conclude there is a star-faring civilization just a few dozen lightyears from our planet.

Yes, life probably exists on other worlds, but what percentage of these worlds have life that has evolved written language, never mind superluminal transport.

[DeimosSaturn]

Fourth, the drake's equation gauntlet I posed earlier was being extremely generous. I could write a book on how improbable it was for humans to evolve and then for some of those humans to be part of a space program. To say the least, it is very improbable. It's so improbably that if we were generous there might only be about 10,000 other species in this galaxy even capable of receiving radio signals. And even though 10,000 sounds like a big number

[DeimosSaturn]

those 10,000 civilizations are spread over a disc that is 100,000 lightyears in diameter. And there is a lot of shit in between them that will make it impossible, at least to our current understanding of physics, for them to even make radio contact with each other, never mind meet face to face. Do you even understand how fucking hard it is to get something into orbit? It will still be really really hard for the next 100 years at least. Never mind escape the solar system.

[DeimosSaturn]

But let's say they come up with some special mode of transportation. Perhaps a wormhole or interdimensional projection or warp drive.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING WHEN THEY GET HERE?

They abduct random people and shove things in their ass.

Wow.

Again, Occam's Razor. What's more likely? These people are experiencing some kind of hallucination or life evolved on another planet, evolved intelligence, built interstellar ships only to then molest less-advanced aliens?

[DeimosSaturn]

How much could they possibly be learning from us by shoving shit in our asses? Don't they have MRIs? Or X-rays? Or if they want a stool sample, why not just ask their abductees to take a shit on a petri dish?

I think they are just interpreting some childhood memory of rape as an alien abduction. Or maybe it's the same effect as Satanic Ritual Abuse syndrome (look it up on wikipedia, it's not what it sounds like).

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I dunno. And maybe it is like that syndrome. I dunno.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn I don't think it's always something shoved up their asses...lol...And to say that this is ALL they're doing here would be an assumption that would ignore many other accounts...i.e. cow mutilation, foreign metal embeddings, sightings in water and around nuclear plants ect etc. IF they DO exist there are MANY unanswered questions on this we agree.

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro No, there are not "MANY" unanswered questions. There are only presumptions that an account of some phenomenon is factual and then an unreasonable demand for an answer under the context of some dramatic alien contact. There is no such thing as cow mutilations. People come across a normal decomposed cow and have never seen one before, so they attribute strange details to something supernatural. It's plain old ignorance.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn People "cpme across a normal decomposed cow"????? Have u listened to any testimony on this? Their nor "normal" by any sense of the word!

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn People don't just attribute details to cow mutilations. Experts have studied them and agreed that there is no animal that kills this way...especially this fast and that no human could do this either especially given the speed. What do u make of these?...

UFOnut.com - Episode 004: Aaron Cattle Mutilation

[HST] UFO Files - Cattle Mutilations-1.avi

[Gnomefro]

@julzabro "especially this fast and that no human could do this either especially given the speed."

Much like crop circles were impossible to make, yet people have demonstrated how they did it using a baseball bat and a piece of rope? Look. What you have evidence for is a dead cow. To jump from that to an intergalactic conspiracy is unsupported to say the least. At best, the proper conclusion would be that you don't know how they were killed.

[julzabro]

@Gnomefro well, I agree that there is nothing tying the mutilations into alien invasion necessarily xcept that we don't have the ability or skill 2 do this in the time it happens and no animal could do it. I think what tied mutilations 2 cows was that they were tied 2 UFO sightings or lights and maybe crop circles too. And I thought that even though people had claimed to hoax crop circles that not all were fake and that they could tell the difference by how the stalks looked. It's a mystery.

[Gnomefro]

@julzabro Especially in light of the known frauds of the crop circles, it's pretty clear that lots of people are bored and do crazy stuff. Maybe even the farmers themselves, because there's not much to do out in the corn belt.

Have you heard the conspiracy theory about how the cattle mutilations were connected to the black helicopters btw? =) Apparently they'd airlift cattle and then just drop them from the air randomly. Again, no evidence for the choppers - just corpses of cattle.

[julzabro]

@Gnomefro Well, no I have never heard of any black helicopter connection but I do know that the mutilated cows are not just dropped but r mutilated in a way that is seemingly impossible to from animal attack or by a human. As far as farmers being bored, I HIGHLY doubt that! Farners are generally very busy and their cows are their bread n butter. Neither boredom nor helicopters can satisfactorially explains this phenomena imho! Thanx 4 ur thoughts tho. ;)

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro There has never been a foreign material extracted from a person's body that could not be easily explained as just a random splinter. It happens. Bits of glass, metal, and rocks get embedded in people's skin all the time and they forget about it only to discover it later on and not remembering how it got there. It's not "unanswered", it's too easy to answer.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn Watch this... Dr. Roger Leir Presents New Startling Findings: Alien Implant Research

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn For us and our current understanding of physics sure it would be impossible but maybe not for another more intelligent race.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn "Yes, life probably exists on other worlds, but what percentage of these worlds have life that has evolved written language, never mind superluminal transport." I dunno but it's possible!

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn It COULD be inhabitable. It's 75% water and 40 light years away. Water is a good indication of life.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn Actually it's 20 light years away. Watch CNN: Life on another planet? 

[julzabro]

Watch this documentary...

UFO Coverup Documentary - Out Of The Blue Part 1/9

[ChristopherJManess]

I like this video. It gives an honest opinion, withyour energy. Thank you.

[julzabro]

@ChristopherJManess Thanx!

[naejimba]

There is currently no empirical evidence for the paranormal or for aliens, therefore, I do not believe until such a time as said evidence is presented.

[julzabro]

@naejimba Do you feel that eyewitness testimony is credible or videos that experts say are actually real is credible? I'm wondering what evidence there would have to be for us skeptics to believe this.

[naejimba]

@julzabro, well often individuals can be incorrect regarding input from our senses. In order for me to say "I believe" I require empirical evidence regarding a highly improbable claim.

[julzabro]

@naejimba I wanted to get a proper definition of "empirical ecidence" and ironically a big part of that is observation and even experience.

em•pir•i•cal

adjective

1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.

2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.

3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.

[julzabro]

@naejimba Or if we get more specific...Empirical evidence is a provable fact that shows unquestionable results. It is the observable proof that knowledge was gained by data, rather than hypothesis, or conjecture.

My question for u is...what do u suppose wooul BE empiricasl proof of ghosts cuz we know videos n photos can be manipulated and I think even tho there has been photos that could NOT b debunked, it's not enuff to prove paranormal. Maybe a vile of ectoplasm?

[naejimba]

@julzabro, anything that is observable and repeatable through scientific experiment will do.

[julzabro]

@naejimba Makes sense!

[ecidemon1]

Hi, as both an atheist and a skeptic I think you are looking at this from the wrong end or perspective. I do not believe in ghosts or that aliens have visited us because those things have definitely been scientifically debunked. Rather claims like these have not held any water. To put in another light:

suppose i say i have an invisible and undetectable horse in my house, this must be true unless it can be debunked but since it can't be debunked it must be true?

Theres a flaw in that statement.

[ecidemon1]

@ecidemon1

Alien life:

the sheer vastness of universe makes it reasonable and very probable to think there is life out there. Is it intelligent?, it could well be. That said, it is also very unlikely that any intelligent life has visited us due to the sheer vastness of space and the time it would take to even get here from other solar systems or galaxies.

What makes it even more improbable that we ever met them here is the very tiny window of time we have occupied thus far.

[ecidemon1]

@ecidemon1

And this is what it boils down to imo.

a photo of something we can not identify is just that, be that a supposed ufo or a ghost. these are anomalies, start looking for them long enough and you will find them. we cant really say anything about it. Know also that most of these photo evidence can be explained by optical phenomena, double exposure or fraud etc. so we are left with just a tiny fraction of anomalies we can't really deduce anything about.

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 Yes, but hasn't there been photos that expert say are real??? I will have to research this!

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 Did u see those exmilitary give their testimony about the UFO incidents (link in description) over nuke sites? What is ur opinion of that. Other atheists won't even give an opinion as they do not see this as "hard evidence". I find it strange that even an opinion is withheld for this reason.

[ecidemon1]

@julzabro well eyewitness accounts is the very worst kind of evidence there is. The power of suggestion alone has a profound effect as well, brain fills in the blanks. Air-force vets, you know i once red that trained air-force people are a bit worse then the average guy at identifying objects as their minds have been trained to spot and identify specific things. Regardless of that however this is an appeal to authority. Im sure they saw something tho.

But look up "Pareidolia" some time :)

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 Thanx 4 that and all ur responses. I will look that up!

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 I started with Youtube and watched... Auras, Ghosts and Pareidolia

This is a great explaination of our own witness of things being possibly flawed. And this pareidolia like many other things that cause us to be mistaken or biased cause me to wonder what kind of empirical evidence could we ever truly believe regarding these phenomena? The link to the movie in details.

[ecidemon1]

@julzabro yes i saw the clip, my opinion is these guys probably saw something they can not explain, think about this: We saw something, we dont know what it is, so it must have been aliens visiting from another planet!, humm...

They have also had more then 40 years to think about this, to let their own minds fill in the blanks. Our own senses are so easily fooled as well and we are not accurate data collecting devices. We produce false positives all the time ;)

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 I agree about being easily fooled and I suppose that I fear that if this IS the government and either they possess this tech OR r creating THIS big of a diversion that it something we oughta figure out and take seriously instead of writing it off as bunk. But that in regards to UFOs...ghosts r another story...;)

[ecidemon1]

@julzabro Also consider this:

People have been looking up to the skies since the dawn of time

compare the relative amount of ufo sightings of the general public with amateur astronomers. Should be about the same if there was something there right?

Turns out there is much less sightings among astronomers yet they look up all the time. You know why?

Because they know what they are looking at.

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 U don't know that, IF this is true that astronomers c UFOs less and it may very well be, we still can't say that the reason is becuz "they know what they're looking at" implying that all the other billions of claims and many by credible people (like astronaust and pilots) are BS. I do c the point tho.

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 Well. as I said...I will have to research this. I have seen many documentaries and read all kinds of stories where supposedly the photos or video is scrutinized by experts who say they do not think it's a fake, yet the science community never comes out and calls it empirical proof....so who knows. All I have right now is my own theories, opinion and curiousity...I guess skeptics don't have that...;)

[ecidemon1]

@julzabro Im much like you i would think, i have my own ideas and opinions and I was always a very curious person. I too find these things interesting, not as much because every once in a while there is an anomaly people can't explain, but rather what do people make of this, tis far more common for people to jump to unjustified conclusions then there are actual unaccounted for anomalies when fakes and other explanations have been eliminated.

[julzabro]

@ecidemon1 Well, I agree. And I guess that was

one of my points for this...to know what others think especially atheists who, usually, don't have the tendency to jump to conclusions!

[julzabro]

@MrEvilution777 I haven't removed anything.

[julzabro]

@MrEvilution777 If you responded I didn't remove it...I haven't seen it!

[julzabro]

@MrEvilution777 k....kewel!

[grenangle]

I apply Ockams' razor to everything. Take away the least likely until you have an answer or have to admit you don't know.

[julzabro]

@grenangle I think admitting u don't know is always better than just writing off the possibility of something not yet proven.

[TheIslammiracle]

(atheist here:)

1/2

In regards to ghosts, theres always a chance that something not applicable to the term we call 'ghost' could exist and thats what people are experiencing, although im really clutching at straws here as theres no real justification (IMO) that anything along either line is really being seen,

and I've never come across any form of critical,objective and/or logical argument to even make the general idea of 'ghosts' to be at all probable in any direction.

[TheIslammiracle]

2/2

In regards to aliens:

I don't doubt the high potential of life elsewhere, ofcourse what/how/when/where life is (if it exists at all) may be beyond our current comprehension, so I don't have any concrete preconceived expectations at any angle.

In regards to aliens visiting, highly improbable and can't find anything that really supports the scientific method and the requirement for evidence , so I say 'I dont accept unless more can be given/demonstrated'.

[TheIslammiracle]

3/3

In regards to any general paranormal claim,

Absolutely everything that could be claimed as 'paranormal' that I've ever encountered (me and/or friends,family) has been debunked with re-testing and analysis by myself , no concrete evidence for others that can't be easily created with intent and most of them proven to be tricks anyway, so I find no reason to ever think of a real paranormal event really takes place and/or that people are assuming correctly.

Still open to evidence though.

[xy11xy]

@TheIslammiracle

retesting and analysis with what? Did you use your physical senses in combo with electronic detector to detect something not yet defined?

;)

[TheIslammiracle]

@xy11xy

I used my abilities to show that what alot of irrational people perceive as supernatural forces were actually tricks of the light, coincidental household sounds and idiots who use smiley faces at the end of their comments.

[xy11xy]

@TheIslammiracle

You'll understand if I press you on this :)

What "abilities"? No doubt your "abilities are formidable, but I'm sure you don't mind if we judge for ourselves...using sound judgment, of course.

...What "abilities"?

[TheIslammiracle]

@xy11xy

Let's say I walk down the hall fast and at an exact moment I believe I hear something walk onto the stairs, whilst thinking I momentarily see a shadowy figure in that location as I walk past.

My ability is to think about what I just saw, go back and repeat my travel as identically as possible and then to locate the true nature of the sound, 100% of the time, its always a natural household sound and my eyes playing tricks on me etc etc, same for ever case ever encountered by me.

[xy11xy]

@TheIslammiracle

Ok. But presuming you can "precicely" retrace your steps, who's to say that method can detect or recreate the experience. What if you're not accounting for certain criteria? eg..You can't recreate your precise state of mind/consciousness at moment of initial detection.

[TheIslammiracle]

@xy11xy

'Whos the say'

By that standard, who's to say that the sound I heard from the central heating, wasn't really a demon immitating it and that the shadowy figure I can see again was really a blacked out ghost with the identical shape of the shadow that immediately dissapeared?

I don't deal with emotion and state of mind, I deal with objectivity and so far it's worked 100% of the time as opposed to the emotional method which is always proven wrong whenever testable.

[TheIslammiracle]

#2

and heres an interesting question, why are 'paranormal activities' limited to a split second in times where our eyes and ears are most susceptible to playing tricks?

What, are these forces unable to surpass a single second after all these centuries of practice and can no longer emerge as soon as our brains become alert or when our senses are in full order?

Paranormal by any usable definition is beyond flawed and brings more questions than answers, all leading away from the original.

[julzabro]

@TheIslammiracle Well, it depends on what ghosts or paranormal REALLY is. Humans are like batteries full of electromagnetic signals so this phenomena may boil down to energy. There is also the concept of multiverses or other dimensions which when/if they collide would probably create odd effects such as a split second vision. U said "centuries of practice" but may b speaking of a state that has parameters/rules.

[julzabro]

@TheIslammiracle I agree that objectvity is always necessary but I'm not sure that the paranormal or UFO phenomenons are simply emotional. If we are to be objective, we can't assume that which is not proven. What do u think about all the ex military saying there have been numerous sightings of UFOs around nukes?

[xy11xy]

@TheIslammiracle

Not dealing with emotion is a recipe for schizophrenia.

The psyche is a powerful thing, and will readily project images, and create sounds in any empty space available. Have you ever read "How to Use your Eyes" James Elkins?

There's a chapter called "How to look at nothing". It touches on how when the eyes are deprived of light for a short time, they will immediately begin creating flashes of light, and images... eyes create photons, not just receive them.

[julzabro]

@xy11xy I agree about not dealing with emotions. That book sounds interesting. I know that emotions can make people irational when they're not in check but find it interesting that the only sentient, intelligent beings that we know of...us....still HAVE emotions. Maybe eventually we will evolve and emotions will be done away with but they haven't since the beginning. Intelligence MUST need emotion on some level.

[DeimosSaturn]

@julzabro Emotions are the most rational form of rationality. Emotions evolved as a result of billions of years of hard-won trial-and-error brute-force random mutation and natural selection. They are the best, most appropriate, most efficient response to a given set of stimuli that our parents used to survive and reproduce. Obviously, there are alternative modalities of survival on earth and there will be that don't use emotions, like bread mold or robots.

[julzabro]

@DeimosSaturn True. It seems, however, that many skeptics and/or skeptical atheists put emotions in such a negative light to almost prevent themselves and others from even "what-if" thinking...I suppose thats why emotions were brough up. Thanx for ur insight!

[xy11xy]

@julzabro

Exactly!...why hasn't evolution "weeded" them out. I agree that we need emotion for intelligence. Why hasn't evolution weeded out dreams?

[julzabro]

@TheIslammiracle I agree that much of what people perceive as paranormal is really explainable but there seems to be certain incidents that go unexplained. Again, if we wish to be objective we probably shouldn't write the whole unproven phenomena off as irrational perception, right?.....;)

[julzabro]

@TheIslammiracle It's good that you're, "still open to evidence".

[xy11xy]

No. There is no proof that there are no ghosts and aliens. Re "ghosts"..I think we have to shift our perspective slightly about what constitutes a "ghost", or an alien for that matter. No one - at this point - can tell you whether it's true or not..if they try, they are trying to suppress your inquiry.

There is room however, for us to explore the possibility of what a ghost might be, and where we should begin looking for them..and what type of detector to use, imo.

:)

[julzabro]

@xy11xy Do u ever watch Ghost Hunters on TV? They use electronic voice detectors, EMF detectors...which detect electronic fields at low frequencies, infared etc etc. All of these tools being used are based on theories of what "ghosts" may be. So, in a sense, this is a type of scientific research. Obviously, this is TV tho...however, they do claim to be objective in their determination between real and unreal happenings.

[xy11xy]

@julzabro

No, I don't think I have... At least they're making an inquiry...