Yes I remember my Boston Church of Christ days, since my Teen days to my college days. I was told to leave by the leadership in 1991, because they told me that I was not being fruitful or bringing people to church. As I was in a leadership position they told me that I had to go, I realized at that moment that this was not a Church, but a Church Inc, I recognize the guys in this video, my old Teen ministers Peter Garcia who was a great friend and Steve "living Large" Johnson......
I met a lot of good people in this church and a lot of jerks mostly leaders. The leaders want you to pump up the numbers like any organization. You're not working for God, you're working for them and their secretive leadership. Trial and error management and you as the lab rat. You're just a number and experiment to the leadership in their schemes. There is no love in this corporation called ICOC.
I don't know Kip, but I know some of his Kiptians and was blindsided by their cult tactics of brainwashing by asking me to throw away my knowledge and accept without question what they say.
They told me to be like the Bereans, and Examine Eagerly Everyday, but they only meant it to the extend that I'd only look at what they told me to look at and ignore any scripture that goes against the lies they preach. Like how 1Cor15:50, Lk13:28, and Acts14:22 disprove their idea that "Kingdom of God"=ICC
Yoyo is right. ICOC is a cult. It's very controlling-100% committed translates into "be unquestioningly obedient to the organization." This is spiritual abuse. They are very secular despite the trappings of Christianity. Did Christ care about the clothes you wore or other material things? No, but ICOC does. It also isolates people from outside influences and uses all the mind control techniques of any other cult. Don't let them fool you.
Learned much Bible while in this church. Was there for 13 years; great time. Left for doctrinal reasons & tired of church called cult by some (not all). I knew it wasn't. It grew TOO fast; lots of issues because of that. I wasn't controlled & didn't see people abuse anyone. Fam/friends chilled after a while; saw I was actually a BETTER person. Still have some friends from those years; some still with the church, some not. The church learned lessons and made some changes. Time will tell.
YES I AM BITTER! U wanna know why? (in a word--i cant write a book here) BECAUSE THOUSANDS OF SOULS HAVE BEEN HARMED BY THE COLD AND CALCULATING WORK OF THIS CULT, THAT'S WHY. As long as you're a enemy of the Gospel of Christ, you're not my friend.
Yes, I agree. This is a cult, and I was harmed by it too. It's controlling and unreasonable. It's spiritual abuse no doubt about it. What's the test? If you're pushing people away from God, you've got to be doing something wrong. ICOC, is a cult. It does spiritual damage. It's very secular despite the trappings of Christianity.
Product1999, You must be a recent convert to this cult. A word of counsel to you--Don't drink the purple Koolaid. It goes down kindly rough. You must be a recent convert. You seem to have that ICC glowing zeal in your words. Just give it time. Exert your will. Stir up your fervor. Pump up the volume on your iPod as you listen to Kip's sermons. Throw in there a shot or two of espresso. Eureka! We have a sold-out disciple!
for your information i was in this cult since i was 11 I am now 24 and currently don't attend any church.....I know ICC when it was ICOC...and the Koolaid only hurts you if your a fool and don't possess your own convictions.......100% committed means perfect standard...of course you fall thats part of being human...you must have a perfect heart and make a perfect effort whilst being an imperfect person.btw did you notice your friend hasn't responded to me in 4 days seems his support is worthless
I did not respond because its a mute point and I have others hobbies besides enlightening you.. I know better than to "discuss" with the likes of you. My view is reasonable and logical and yours requires evidence-less belief, to each his own, but don't act like non-believers owe YOU and explanation. Your the one trying to convince us there something weres theres nothing so your the one that has to prove his point. I hope your enjoying your day.
Sold Out is a perfect way to describe yourself Product 1999 !! Thats what you are - a Sell Out. You couldn't handle the awe inspiring mystery of life without a concrete definition so you settled for some old stories written by people who thought rain came from flood gates in heaven. But just believing the Bible wasnt enough so you need to define yourself as a "real sold out christian" and surrond yourself with like minded people so you never have to question you blind beliefs.
the awe inspiring mystery of life is just another way of you saying that you don't know what to believe so you drift not standing for anything and criticize those that try to solve the mystery. You have no answers period to the big questions of life. I question my beliefs thoroughly, If you want to argue about the finer points I'm game. You could die tomorrow so you need to make some conclusions about the metaphysical aspects of this mysterious life ASAP
This video from the mid 90's came between the reorg in the late 80's and the imminent, but temporary departure of Kip from the ministry due to his daughter's "falling away" from the faith. Kip has since come back rejuvenated to Oregon and, more recently, southern Cal, in order that he might spread more schism and division by lighting another spark of heightened commitment (or re-commitment) amongst his new breed of followers. This movement will rise and fall with Kip Mckean.
Another thing that is quite humorous is the date of this video. This should provide sufficient answer to your question. The early 70's to the late 70's were the Gainesville days and the infancy of the "discipleship" that made Kip famous (or, as it were, infamous). From the late 70's to the late 80's the Boston church with all its divisions and schisms. But wait, that's not all! The disciples in this movement were not zealous enough, and there was a reorg in the late 80's...
Read Acts 5: 35-39. Kip's ministry is just like the examples given of Theudas and Judas. The ICOC (or whatever it is called today--the movement changes as often as Kip deems it to change) will only remain as strong as Kip's leadership (if you want to call it that) is strong.
If you take Kip out of the picture, this movement will fall like a house of cards. Isn't it funny to you that the men he "trains" for the ministry are all cookie-cutter images of himself? Even down to the mannerisms behihn the pulpit. This is just one of MANY reasons why this movement cannot and will not last.
Just calling a spade a spade... . Did the Apostle Paul do any less when he identified heresy? I believe the Man-God has said, "Judge righteous judgment". Universalism says that everyone is going to heaven. Yet, Kip McKean would say that only "sold out" (whatever that means) disciples under his jurisdiction are going to heaven. I would call that judgmental, wouldn't you?
sold out means 100% committed to God if you were doing that you had nothing to worry about.....it is your subjective opinion that drives those statements with a little but of bitterness also.........you need to use scriptures to get your point across my friend.
Sold Out is a perfect way to describe yourself Product 1999 !! Thats what you are - a Sell Out. You couldn't handle the awe inspiring mystery of life without a concrete definition so you settled for some old stories written by people who thought rain came from flood gates in heaven. But just believing the Bible wasnt enough so you surround yourself with like minded people so you never have to question you blind beliefs. Enjoy your fake life.
Yes I remember my Boston Church of Christ days, since my Teen days to my college days. I was told to leave by the leadership in 1991, because they told me that I was not being fruitful or bringing people to church. As I was in a leadership position they told me that I had to go, I realized at that moment that this was not a Church, but a Church Inc, I recognize the guys in this video, my old Teen ministers Peter Garcia who was a great friend and Steve "living Large" Johnson......
skoona08 2 months ago
The world needs more dreamers. There is no doubt that mistakes will be made, but we need men of courage who will take chances. Where are they today?
churchtape 11 months ago
Comment removed
richard14ize 1 year ago
I met a lot of good people in this church and a lot of jerks mostly leaders. The leaders want you to pump up the numbers like any organization. You're not working for God, you're working for them and their secretive leadership. Trial and error management and you as the lab rat. You're just a number and experiment to the leadership in their schemes. There is no love in this corporation called ICOC.
richard14ize 1 year ago
they really knew how to sell themselves, with the baby tigers and all. it sad the manipulation of scripture.
doublebassangel 1 year ago
I don't know Kip, but I know some of his Kiptians and was blindsided by their cult tactics of brainwashing by asking me to throw away my knowledge and accept without question what they say.
They told me to be like the Bereans, and Examine Eagerly Everyday, but they only meant it to the extend that I'd only look at what they told me to look at and ignore any scripture that goes against the lies they preach. Like how 1Cor15:50, Lk13:28, and Acts14:22 disprove their idea that "Kingdom of God"=ICC
Mintish 1 year ago
its funny how i see a lot freaking people listen and writtin a cunt like mr mckean......
spending every month in notepads ,books, pens et etc FOR NOTHING....or continues them sins...........kip must be in jailed .....
some day kip ........some day you ll be paid it for everthin done........
gatolocoverga152 1 year ago
Cult.
They dont sound completely "there".
psykick77 1 year ago
Yoyo is right. ICOC is a cult. It's very controlling-100% committed translates into "be unquestioningly obedient to the organization." This is spiritual abuse. They are very secular despite the trappings of Christianity. Did Christ care about the clothes you wore or other material things? No, but ICOC does. It also isolates people from outside influences and uses all the mind control techniques of any other cult. Don't let them fool you.
halideion 1 year ago
Learned much Bible while in this church. Was there for 13 years; great time. Left for doctrinal reasons & tired of church called cult by some (not all). I knew it wasn't. It grew TOO fast; lots of issues because of that. I wasn't controlled & didn't see people abuse anyone. Fam/friends chilled after a while; saw I was actually a BETTER person. Still have some friends from those years; some still with the church, some not. The church learned lessons and made some changes. Time will tell.
angeegold 2 years ago
Comment removed
heddo1978 2 years ago
YES I AM BITTER! U wanna know why? (in a word--i cant write a book here) BECAUSE THOUSANDS OF SOULS HAVE BEEN HARMED BY THE COLD AND CALCULATING WORK OF THIS CULT, THAT'S WHY. As long as you're a enemy of the Gospel of Christ, you're not my friend.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
Yes, I agree. This is a cult, and I was harmed by it too. It's controlling and unreasonable. It's spiritual abuse no doubt about it. What's the test? If you're pushing people away from God, you've got to be doing something wrong. ICOC, is a cult. It does spiritual damage. It's very secular despite the trappings of Christianity.
halideion 1 year ago
"100% committed"? 99% not good enough? Have you ever fallen below 100%? That's what I call a yoke made of iron.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
Thanks for the support, TPsynth.
Product1999, You must be a recent convert to this cult. A word of counsel to you--Don't drink the purple Koolaid. It goes down kindly rough. You must be a recent convert. You seem to have that ICC glowing zeal in your words. Just give it time. Exert your will. Stir up your fervor. Pump up the volume on your iPod as you listen to Kip's sermons. Throw in there a shot or two of espresso. Eureka! We have a sold-out disciple!
You make your leaders proud
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
for your information i was in this cult since i was 11 I am now 24 and currently don't attend any church.....I know ICC when it was ICOC...and the Koolaid only hurts you if your a fool and don't possess your own convictions.......100% committed means perfect standard...of course you fall thats part of being human...you must have a perfect heart and make a perfect effort whilst being an imperfect person.btw did you notice your friend hasn't responded to me in 4 days seems his support is worthless
Product1999 2 years ago
@Product1999
I did not respond because its a mute point and I have others hobbies besides enlightening you.. I know better than to "discuss" with the likes of you. My view is reasonable and logical and yours requires evidence-less belief, to each his own, but don't act like non-believers owe YOU and explanation. Your the one trying to convince us there something weres theres nothing so your the one that has to prove his point. I hope your enjoying your day.
TPsynth 1 year ago
Sold Out is a perfect way to describe yourself Product 1999 !! Thats what you are - a Sell Out. You couldn't handle the awe inspiring mystery of life without a concrete definition so you settled for some old stories written by people who thought rain came from flood gates in heaven. But just believing the Bible wasnt enough so you need to define yourself as a "real sold out christian" and surrond yourself with like minded people so you never have to question you blind beliefs.
TPsynth 2 years ago
the awe inspiring mystery of life is just another way of you saying that you don't know what to believe so you drift not standing for anything and criticize those that try to solve the mystery. You have no answers period to the big questions of life. I question my beliefs thoroughly, If you want to argue about the finer points I'm game. You could die tomorrow so you need to make some conclusions about the metaphysical aspects of this mysterious life ASAP
Product1999 2 years ago
(Part b of b)
This video from the mid 90's came between the reorg in the late 80's and the imminent, but temporary departure of Kip from the ministry due to his daughter's "falling away" from the faith. Kip has since come back rejuvenated to Oregon and, more recently, southern Cal, in order that he might spread more schism and division by lighting another spark of heightened commitment (or re-commitment) amongst his new breed of followers. This movement will rise and fall with Kip Mckean.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
(Part a of b)
Another thing that is quite humorous is the date of this video. This should provide sufficient answer to your question. The early 70's to the late 70's were the Gainesville days and the infancy of the "discipleship" that made Kip famous (or, as it were, infamous). From the late 70's to the late 80's the Boston church with all its divisions and schisms. But wait, that's not all! The disciples in this movement were not zealous enough, and there was a reorg in the late 80's...
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
Comment removed
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
(part 1 of 2)
Read Acts 5: 35-39. Kip's ministry is just like the examples given of Theudas and Judas. The ICOC (or whatever it is called today--the movement changes as often as Kip deems it to change) will only remain as strong as Kip's leadership (if you want to call it that) is strong.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
(part 2 of 2)
If you take Kip out of the picture, this movement will fall like a house of cards. Isn't it funny to you that the men he "trains" for the ministry are all cookie-cutter images of himself? Even down to the mannerisms behihn the pulpit. This is just one of MANY reasons why this movement cannot and will not last.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
This is a truly sad performance of the flesh. God is not glorified in any of this mess.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
really which part in particular?
Product1999 2 years ago
all of it
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
That's a very large and judgmental statement.
Product1999 2 years ago
Well, then, shame on me.
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
Just calling a spade a spade... . Did the Apostle Paul do any less when he identified heresy? I believe the Man-God has said, "Judge righteous judgment". Universalism says that everyone is going to heaven. Yet, Kip McKean would say that only "sold out" (whatever that means) disciples under his jurisdiction are going to heaven. I would call that judgmental, wouldn't you?
yoyodojo4 2 years ago
sold out means 100% committed to God if you were doing that you had nothing to worry about.....it is your subjective opinion that drives those statements with a little but of bitterness also.........you need to use scriptures to get your point across my friend.
Product1999 2 years ago
Sold Out is a perfect way to describe yourself Product 1999 !! Thats what you are - a Sell Out. You couldn't handle the awe inspiring mystery of life without a concrete definition so you settled for some old stories written by people who thought rain came from flood gates in heaven. But just believing the Bible wasnt enough so you surround yourself with like minded people so you never have to question you blind beliefs. Enjoy your fake life.
TPsynth 2 years ago