Pro-War GOP Senators Refusing to be Interviewed about Iraq

[cupera1]

News shows are refusing to tell about the success in Iraq, so no senators on TV to tell about the success of the surge and destruction of AQ/terrorist in Iraq

[CaLifOrniALARoCks]

Neither did they display the "failure" or "Religous Conflict" caused by the War destroying the Iraq-Iran Border. So i would not say any News Station leans one-way or another, besides FOX NEWS, of cource!

[shakil2]

If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy. -James Madison

All wars are fought for money.

--Socrates

Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.

--Sir Peter Ustinov

In times of Universal deceit, telling the truth, is a Revolutionary Act.

-George Orwell

"War is Peace; Lies are Truth; Ignorance is Strength." - George Orwell

"The first casualty of war is the Truth." -- Aeschylus

[madmotomaniac]

you should rebel america your being lied to ha ha lol

[RonPaulVoters]

Of course they don't want to be asked why they support the things they support. It's ok... they are ALL going to be voted out anyway.

[patsagainstrats]

That's curious, my father was a mere eight-years-old by the close of WW2.

You're one twisted sister, fella. Go spin your libel on another thread, 'cause you have zero credibility on this one.

[hell666gop]

Run and hide.

throw the Bums out of office.

[patsagainstrats]

When liberals are backed into a corner, they often make up wretched stories about their opposition. Sad, really.

[patsagainstrats]

Hypocrite liberals, or neo-Copperhead Democrats, are ramapant on this thread. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War, didn't he? Learn your history before you start hammering out presidential quotes, you didpshit. LOL!

[SeattleGuy1968]

Why don't those states recall those senators who are afraid to state their position in public - it's strange that they would want to keep them as senators.

[hell666gop]

Bush and the Republican party started this war, and failed in its operation, then hide behind the Military. They do not want to talk about their fail leadership, Look at Afganistan its now a narco state

[lighthammar]

who audits the senators?

Seems like few oppose Cheney/Bush.

It would be interesting to see a clip of who "contributes" to these lackies.

[b9keith]

I wonder if Lugar from Indiana remembers me tellin' him 15 yrs ago, that he will eventually need to "pay the piper"...

I love to say "I told you so"

[insultant]

Cut-and-run chicken shits. Face the music little girls!

[patsagainstrats]

You can't fault any Rupblican from steering away from a far-left cable news network like MSNBC. They'd get better PR with a visit to Castro's Cuba.

[insultant]

patsagainstrats: For God's sake man..they vote to send our brave men and women to war (and I was one) and they won't even stand up to the media? You chicken hawks really are deluded. Nearly 80% of the American population is against you and most of the world. We've all had it with the neocon fascists. BTW, I'm a true conservative but you probably don't know the difference.

[patsagainstrats]

You probably got booted out of the service for soliciting gay sex while on KP duty, you potato-peelin' coward.

I suggest you watch Ken Burns' new documentary on PBS, you might actually see what it means to be an American.

[CitizenWorm]

It doesn't seem like you know much about being an American. I bet you have one, maybe two sources of information regarding the war. You think Iran wants to start a war with us too right? It's your president who has that goal actually. WAKE UP!

[thucy2]

The PBS documentary is amazing. Thank God we had a president like FDR, and not the shallow and intellectually limited hack we've got now. And did you notice the part about how FDR's oldest son volunteered for a dangerous mission behind enemy lines on Guadalacanal? Another of his sons saw combat in the North Atlantic. Quite a difference from the sort of leadership we have today.

[patsagainstrats]

The same war where George H. Bush served in an heroic fashion, yes?

BTW, would you consider FDR's internment of 110,000 Japanese-Americans during the war as "shallow" and "intellectually limited?"

Learn your history before you start throwing stones, ya ignoramus. LOL!

[thucy2]

pats:Bush Sr. served with distinction, and Joe Kennedy Jr. was KIA over France.

The internment of Japanese-Americans was a disgrace and a blot on FDR's record.I never said he was perfect,but he was far better than what we've got now.

FDR's plan for funding WWII was summed up in 6 words: "Taxes and bonds, bonds and taxes." Bush's plan for funding this war: "Borrow from China."

You end every post with an insult.You even insult our veterans when they disagree with you. Sad.

[patsagainstrats]

Were you also aware that FDR wouldn't allow "negroes" to own land at his beloved Warm Springs--the place were he convalesced his polio-ravaged body?

It's been proven that FDR actually prolonged the depression with his big government, New Deal.

Ask the people of Poland how happy they were that FDR handed their country over to the Soviets. Before the war had even ended, no less.

BTW, Joeseph P. Kennedy was a Nazi sympathizer.

[thucy2]

Well, at least you restrained yourself from calling me "an ignoramous" etc.

As I said, FDR wasn't perfect, in fact like all successful US politicians he had serious flaws. He certainly wasn't a civil rights pioneer, and the left wing of the Democratic Party (and Eleanor) gave him lots of grief about that. He did try, as the Burns documentary points out, to temper some of the racism, but like Lincoln with emancipation, FDR's prime goal was winning the war, and social justice had to come later.

[thucy2]

"It's proven that FDR...prolonged the Depression." Pat: it's very difficult to "prove" anything as far as "the dismal science" of macro-economics is concerned. The Depression was an enormously complicated, international problem. My sense is that some of FDR's measures helped, some didn't. Considering he was reelected in 1936 and 1940 (for an unprecedented third term) it seems as though the majority at the time thought he was doing a pretty good job with it.

[thucy2]

FDR "handing over Poland" to the Soviets. This is a conserv. myth. Considering that Stalin had 200 + divisions in Europe, and had complete military control of Poland, I doubt FDR (or Churchill) could have done much, short of declare war on Russia, to free Poland. Just how many casualities do you think the US public would have accepted in 1945, to liberate Poland? And don't forget, at the time we thought we'd need Russian help against Japan.

[thucy2]

I know all about J. Kennedy's ridiculous politics, it's why FDR fired him from his job as US ambassador, and refused to allow him any substantial post in his gov. after that. You do know that the Bush family too has its own less than stellar history regarding Nazism? And Henry Ford used to send Hitler a birthday gift every year. For years FDR was quite far ahead of the public on dealing with Hitler, and rearmament was hugely unpopular, but FDR pushed for it anyway.

[patsagainstrats]

Yes, I'm well aware over Henry Ford's anti-Zionist views. He actually used to publish them in his company magazine, and he used to include one of his anti-Semetic books with every purchase of one his cars. Hitler actually kept Ford's book on his desk. Maybe this is why Dearborn is now referred to as "Dearbornistan."

[dowling1981]

pats - have you portained them?

[annarboriter]

That's a new slight against Dearborn but if true, it's likely because it has one of the largest Arab speaking populations outside the ME.

[varsityeagle89]

ur an idiot, you'll never see a President like Kennedy in your life..He was gonna save this Country, but it cost him his life..

[thucy2]

varsity: if you're replying to me, the fact is I think JFK was a pretty good president, certainly far superior to the current one. In the comment above I was responding to "patsagainstrats" who is a huge Bush supporter, and came at me with the right wing politics of JFK's father, Joe Kennedy. As I said to "pats"--I know all about Joe Sr.'s "ridiculous politics"--but that doesn't change the fact that JFK was a far better president than Bush.Read the rest of the thread and you'll see what I mean.

[thucy2]

Pats: We could go on debating FDR's record and legacy for years. The point is: for all his flaws, under his leadership the US was victorious in WWII, and in less time than we've been fighting now in Iraq.

I've got to get to work, but thanks for the discussion. When I get back I'll look to see what you've posted in reply.

[cupera1]

If the media and Reps had hamstrung FDR like the Dems are doing now we would still be fight Hitler today.

[thucy2]

cupera: the GOP opposed everything FDR tried to do, and the GOP platform in the midterm elections of '42 and the presidential race of '44 was about how FDR was a failure as a war leader. The GOP controlled media was isolationist before the war, and bitterly critical of FDR after Pearl Harbor for tackling Hitler first, instead of Japan.

The GOP had total control of Congress for the first 5 yrs of the Iraq war, and followed Bush without question, so it bears responsibility for its failure.

[cupera1]

There were no calls for surrender or appeasement from the Reps, unlike the Dems. The only ones praising Hitler were from FDR's own administration, Joe Kennedy. Every one wanted to win the war against Germany and Japan. The rounding up of ethnic Germans, Italians and Japanese and putting them in concentration camps would never fly today. If Bush were to fight an all out war against terrorist Like FDR did he would be charged with war crimes.

[thucy2]

The idea that "the only ones praising Hitler were from FDR's" administration is flat-out wrong. Among Hitler's US supporters were Henry Ford and G. Prescott Bush. And Kennedy was dumped for his opinions.

Democrats today aren't calling for "surrender" to the perpetrators of 9-11. That's BS. But the invasion of Iraq was a huge blunder, which most Americans now understand. It's as if FDR, faced with Japan's attack on Dec. 7 and Germany declaring war on Dec. 11, had responded by attacking Spain.

[cupera1]

Tell that to Hillary, Obama, Pelosi or the real nut jog KUCINICH. all want to abandon the WOT.

[thucy2]

"Nut jog?" Anyway, neither Clinton, Pelosi, or Kucinich have ever said they want to abandon efforts to track down Bin Laden, or end efforts to defend the US from terror attacks. That's just more GOP BS.

[thucy2]

And the fact remains that Bin Laden is still out there, and the al-Quaeda infrastructure in Afghanistan is rebuilding. Bush has had more time to defeat BL than FDR took to defeat Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo. Instead, he took us into Iraq.

And where did you get the idea that ethnic Germans and Italians were put into concentration camps during WWII? Ethnic Japanese, yes, but not most Germans and Italians. Or don't names such as Eisenhower, Einstein and Oppenheimer mean anything to you?

[cupera1]

Tell that to my grandfather, he has dual citizenship, and his wife who were set to Maine for 3 years

[thucy2]

Don't know the details of your grandfather's situation. My aunt and uncle were Germans who immigrated to the States in 1935, opened a business and lived in their home in NY throughout WWII. To say that the situation of the millions of ethnic Germans and Italians in the US during WWII was the same as that of ethnic Japanese, most of whom were US (not dual) citizens, is simply wrong. Of course, my uncle renounced his German citizenship, being anti-Nazi. That might have made the difference.

[cupera1]

Since He was white its ok then.

[thucy2]

The idea that "ethnic Germans" were sent to "concentration camps" under FDR is most interesting. What was the name of this "concentration camp" in Maine? I'd very much like to research this issue.

"Since he was white its ok then." Did I ever say that? Cupera, do you ever rationally debate anything, or do you just put words into other peoples' mouths? You still haven't defended your ridiculous claim that "the only ones praising Hitler" were in FDR's government. Probably because you can't.

[cupera1]

and Joe Kennedy was praising Hitler

[thucy2]

cupera: please give me an example of Joe Kennedy "praising Hitler." A quote and a source would be good. Kennedy did support conservative PM Chamberlin's policy at Munich, but that's not "praising Hitler." And after Pearl Harbor both of Kennedy's military age sons volunteered: Joe Jr. was KIA over France in 1944, JFK was MIA for a time and wounded in combat in the South Pacific.

Among my sources are "Franklyn Roosevelt: His Life and Times" by Otis Graham and Meghan Wander. What are yours?

[thucy2]

cupera: and Prescott Bush's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Was Prescott Bush a member of the FDR administration? He must have been, right, because according to you "the only" appeasers and praisers of Hitler were with FDR. You have yet to defend that argument, probably because it's indefensible. All you can do is repeat the name "Joe Kennedy" again and again and again. I guess that's what passes for debate among Republicans these days. Sad.

[cupera1]

google german interment camps in Maine

Then why did FDR allow the camps to run at full capacity and NOT bomb the rail and roads to them.

[thucy2]

I googled it and found nothing. I did find an entry in Wikopedia saying that of all the tens of millions of German-Americans in the US in 1941`-1945, 11,000 were interned during the war. The vast majority were NOT American citizens, and were among the 114,000Germans who'd come to the country since 1931.

I assume your reference to "bomb the rails and roads" is to Auschwitz. That's a whole other topic. Read Martin Gilbert's "Auschwitz and the Allies" for the complete answer.

[thucy2]

Also from Wikopedia: "President Roosevelt did not hesitate to name Americans of German ancestry to top war jobs, including General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and General Carl Spaatz.... German Americans who were born overseas were the subject of some suspicion and discrimination during the war, although prejudice and sheer numbers meant they suffered less than Japanese-Americans."

[cupera1]

We never got Hitler either

[thucy2]

Newsflash to cupera: Hitler is dead. He committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin at the end of April, 1945. His wife Eva Braun, and his propaganda minister Goebbels went with him. Himmler committed suicide a few weeks later. Goering, Ribbentrop, Speers, and the other major Nazis were captured and publicly tried at Nuremburg. Similarly, Tojo and the other planners of Pearl Harbor were captured and tried. And all of this happened in less time than Bush has had to get Bin Laden.

[cupera1]

We never saw a body and just like OBL, Clinton turned his down three times, we never got Hitler. I will admit the Bush has fought the WOT in a very PC way and has caused the war to drag on. If Bush had used the same methods that Eisenhower had used to suppress the Werewolves in Germany he would be charged with war crimes.

[thucy2]

"We never saw a body..."So you're saying Hitler is alive?Or Bin Laden is dead and nobody is saying so?

I'm not going to get into the right wing crap about "the Werewolves" because then you'll just come up with some other bogus issue. You have yet to answer any of my direct questions. What was the name of the "concentration camp" where FDR imprisoned ethnic Germans? Where is your evidence that "the only" people praising Hitler were in the FDR administration?

You can't answer, can you?

[cupera1]

from the people in FRD admin Jeo Kennedy

[thucy2]

As I said cupera, the only argument you've got to support your claim that "all" pro-Hitler voices in the US during FDR's time were within the administration is to repeat "Joe Kennedy Joe Kennedy Joe Kennedy." Now you're not even spelling it right.

Here's a little fact for you. When FDR proposed Lend-Lease to provide a life-line to Britain, the vote in the House was 135 in favor, 24 against. ALL 24 votes against were Republicans. Were they also in the FDR administration?

[thucy2]

cupera you obviously have some grudge against FDR. Probably it's because he was a liberal Democrat, and in the right wing echo chamber liberal Democrats are to blame for everything wrong with the world. I'm not saying FDR was perfect, but when it came to confronting the Nazis he was the most far-seeing statesman on the American scene. Winston Churchill said as much time and again.

You really should read some more history. Life is more complicated than "Dems always evil, Repubs always good."

[cupera1]

It's just the ones that believe that you can not wipe your ass with out government help and want to rule the world because they can do it better. I did not leave the Dems they left me.

[thucy2]

cupera: This last comment is so off the wall it's obvious we come from different worlds. I don't know any Dems who believe "that you can not wipe your ass without gov. help" nor any that "want to rule the world." I doubt you do either.

You've been listening to the right wing echo chamber too long. Get out, meet some people different from yourself, read some books by genuine historians--not ideologues--and your attitude will change.

Best wishes to you and your grandfather.

[thucy2]

cupera:this is from Winston Churchill: "I have formed the very highest regard and admiration for the President.His breadth of view, resolution, and his loyalty to the cause [of defeating Hitler] are beyond all praise."

Was there antiSemitism in the gov. during FDR's time in office? Yes. As there was throughout American society. Was FDR perfect? No. But he was far and away the best man for the job at that time, and one of the three best presidents (along with Lincoln and Washington) ever.

[thucy2]

cupera:I just had to revisit your comment that "the only ones praising Hitler were from FDR's own administration." This statement is so unbelievably skewed it demonstrates just how partisan you are. Among the leading voices for appeasement were Charles Lindburgh and Father Charles Coughlin. Lindburgh obviously wasn't in FDR's administration, Coughlin was a conservative radio commentator who hated FDR with a passion.

It's amazing, what passes for "history" in the right wing echo chamber.

[cupera1]

The Anti Semitism ran rampant through FDR's administration Joe just said that in public.

[thucy2]

Anti-Semitism ran rampant throughout American society in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and the legislation capping Jewish immigration was passed under a GOP administration, through a GOP Congress. Do you think the Coolidge and Harding administrations were beacons of tolerance? Anyway, your statement was that the "only" voices calling for appeasement were within the FDR administration. This is completely, obviously, indisputably false, as anyone who knows anything of the history of that era will tell you.

[thucy2]

cupera: I suggest you read the bio of FDR by James MacGregor Burns, esp. vol. 2 "Roosevelt: Soldier of Freedom." For a good look at US domestic politics, check out "V Was for Victory: Politics and American Culture During WWII" by John Morton Blum. If books aren't your thing, the BBC did an excellent segment on US politics in its "World at War" series. And Churchill of course has lots to say on FDR as well.

[thucy2]

To continue on this theme: FDR and his team assembled a multi-million man military, oversaw the production of hundreds of thousands of planes, tanks, and ships, and defeated (with our allies) two of the world's preeminent military powers, and he did it all in less time than we've spent in Iraq since "Mission Accomplished." Bush vs. FDR? No comparison.

[thucy2]

Not to forget: FDR, with a Dem. Congress, also passed "The GI Bill of Rights" which provided a college education and low cost mortgage for every single US vet, leading to the economic explosion of the 1950s and the growth of the US middle class. By contrast, this administration's treatment of vets has been shabby and incompetent.

[thucy2]

Finally, pat., if you've been watching the Burns documentary you no doubt noticed the part where FDR insisted, over his advisors' objections, that the American public be allowed to see raw combat footage of Tarawa, so the people could see what their soldiers were facing. People supported FDR because they trusted him to tell them the truth. Can you say the same about Bush?

And just once, try posting something without namecalling and insults. Come on, I know you can do it!

[patsagainstrats]

He finally had to yield to public will.

There were so many soldiers being killed at that point in the war, people finally stopped believing propaganda they were being fed at the movies.

FDR also wanted to shut down the Chicago Tribune during the war and throw its owner, Robert McCormick, in jail. McCormick was an America First isolationist.

[insultant]

I did watch it. I thought it was great. I've visited Bastogne, Normandy and have studied military history extensively. Do you know the difference between a necessary, declared war? Protecting and defending the Constitution, not some petty fascist dictator's illegal lies? Perhaps you are the one that needs to see what it means to be an American. Your ignorance is astounding.

[thucy2]

Insultant: thank you for your service.

[patsagainstrats]

Evidently Congress felt this was a necessary war, considering the lop-sided authorization vote.

You wouldn't know a dictator if he goose-stepped into your favorite bath house, and started burning your gay pornography.

LMFAO!

[dghulderman628]

"see what it means to be american" by calling names? being american is supposed to be a free and open society, not all these lies and propaganda they feed us. it's amazing how some people want to talk shit about iran and yet want to violate their own citizens rights. hypocrites

[nbwulf]

Quality clip.

[asdffd]

COWARDS. If you support Bush's war you better damn well be able to defend it. If you don't you're a COWARD.

[MarquisdeBarrabas]

Exactly.

[TAMARLANE]

I like it when the energy of certain subversive types is spent promoting Ron Paul. Just means they are pissing in the wind and that ain't a bad thing as far as I am concerned. I like Ron Paul for creating a distraction that sucks in the liberals.

[2Halifaxion2]

A distraction that beat out half of the fascists in the iowa straw poll. You fucking inbred, you have no idea what the consequences of a debate on torture in this country really consist of. Do yourself a favor, look up Project Paperclip, Operation Northwoods, Operation Mockingbird, MK ULTRA, General Smedley Butler, and fucking google 9/11. Ron Paul has more money that Romney, because Rom is in so much debt...a preview of fiscal policy? Yessss

[theor82]

It's funny how liberals duck interviews on Fox News and talk radio all the time but a couple Republicans don't want to go the joke of a news network called MSNBC and they get called out. Fuck the liberal media. Until they start asking tough questions to people like Hillary Clinton, I have no respect for them, and they will always be a joke. They are the reason the world hates us, not Bush as they would like you to believe.

[nightrider767]

theor, you're right, Bush is viewed as a god amongst the rest of the world...

And the Congressmen who don't want to be interviewed about the war are right too.

If we only had more power to project, we'd wrap this whole damn thing up!

[alittlelark]

WTF is wrong w/ you?

...really.

[CounterRevolutionary]

Yeah, wouldn't want all angles of the case to get out there, it's just easier the have our opinions spoon-fed to us by the MSM.

[Ender1zero1]

I am liking David Shuster more and more, Tucker take a walk.

[voiyour]

go AL Franken!!

ppl want to dismiss [ex] comedians, but those like Franken and Jon Daily make a helluva lot more sense than most politicians.

I'd love to see Franken beat Coleman.

[kuriostone]

You don't mean John Stewart... do you?

[voiyour]

yeah, damnit, you're right. i can't keep all the johns and dailies and shows and stewarts straight. i think it's the golfer that screws it up for me, lol.

but you get the point. I hope AF wins...and JS goes to Washington someday, too. Jon Stewart is brilliant. His interview with Bill Moyers was phenomenal.

[dafttool]

The warmongers in the GOP have every reason to want to run and hide from their record, since it is that very blood drenched record that will most likely cost them their jobs in 2008.

[freedomman12]

Yeah man. Ron Paul 2008! Let's get the Neocons out of Washington!

[wiskawind]

Vote every last Republican OUT OF OFFICE; they serve only Bush and their Party, not the American people!

[dingusmungus]

@wiskawind

Lets get the NEOCONS out of office!

Ron Paul is a Republican and a good man.

Neocons are the source of the problems!

BTW Hillary Clinton is a NEOCON too!

[hollyhoodjoe123]

Give that man his own show! Now!

[asdffd]

Definitely second that. Or just give him Tucker's show.

[blackacadian]

Best Tucker show ever!

[darkgatherer]

lol it certainly is better when Tucker isn't there.