Hockey players eat meat and many get injured such as the recently injured superstar who now cannot play any longer due to brain injury. Do you know his name? Hockey is a violent sport a lot of the time.
My main reason for commenting in this video is to dispel the lies in the videos 'arguments'. There is no scientific basis for it.
vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
Conclusion: Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet.
veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-humans-omnivores.html also breaks down the dishonesty in arguments like those in this video.
How can Betty White be working and healthy if the vegan diet is so bad for anyone? Many people do well without meat or it's byproducts. Leonardo da Vinci once said: "There will come a time when the murder of animals is seen as the same as the murder of humans". He was on a plant-based diet from a young age and lived to 67 years of age when most people back then did not live that long.
@veganfemaleathlete FYI I've never said the vegan diet is bad for anyone. Look at my quotes, I say it's certainly healthier than SAD.
I do state, and science backs me up, that it NEEDS B12 and possible other supplementation. All vegan medical experts agree with me here. All of them.
However it is not now and never has been proven that meats (except processed meats) are un-healthy. A meat-only diet isn't healthy, but meat/fish and lots of veggies IS.
@veganfemaleathlete keep in mind too that Davinci's age wouldn't just be attributed to his diet, but to his lifestyle. He had benefactors, and was not one of the poor, working-class uneducated peasants that had no access to doctors of his day. He was also less-likely to be involved in workplace accidents, etc.
It's like saying meat is unhealthy because inuits don't live as long ... it's a baseless argument due to confounding variables, like access to health care, etc.
How many actors in Hollywood are still active and working at 90 years of age? Betty White turned 90 last week and she is still active and working on two different shows now. She has been on a plant-based diet or vegan diet since she was a child. She does not need any medications yet most omnivores take medications for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, and a wide range of types of cancer.
George Burns lived to be 100, and attributed his longevity to his regular diet of martinis, smoking the big cigars that were his lifelong trademark, and dating pretty women. Burns ignored medical advice to change his lifestyle...
It's not science to list one person as evidence offor a lifestyle... There's lots of old people that aren't vegan. Lots of them. My Grandmother is 97 and eats meat every day...
U.S. statistics show only 3.2 percent of Americans are vegetarian, and just 0.5 percent are vegan...
If the rate of veganism in the entertainment industry were more than double the national average, then sure, just UNDER 99% aren't vegan... but unless you can show that with a statistical sampling of the millions of people that work in the entertainment industry, you're just guessing. Throwing a handful of names is hardly scientific, is it?
Well, like he said, that's a very small, incredibly small list of people. Considering that there are hundreds of thousands working in the entertainment industry (if not more) you'd have to come up with a lot more names.... Hundreds...
BTW, as mentioned earlier, many of the names you bring up aren't vegan - documented as meat, fish, egg or dairy eaters.
So... it appears you have a much bigger list to come up with, and some verification to do before you present it. His truth stands.
Sandra Oh, Casey Affleck, Tobey McQuire, Karina Smirnoff, Bob Barker, Betty White, and there are even more than those already listed. AlbertBeefy thinks I am blind or not very intelligent. He just described himself.
AlbertaBeefy has made up some very false stats. He wrote that 99.9% of Hollywood people eat meat. Wrong again as Alicia Silverstone, Emily Deschamel, Zooey Deschamel, Jaoquin Phoenix, Woody Harrelson and many more are vegan. AlbertaBeefy lied once again.
Carl Lewis was not originally vegan and was involved in much of the same cheating scandals as Ben Johnson... He didn't go vegan until later... One could make the case that due to genetics (and "supplementation") he performed well IN SPITE of being vegan, not because of it.
Regardless, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up celebrities... just because a celebrity chooses a lifestyle doesn't make it best. 99.99% of athletes still eat meat... as do 99.99% of hollywood folk...
Check out the video on YouTube entitled, "Carl Lewis- Olympic medals through the vegan diet". He was definitely vegan when he won all those gold medals with no cheating.
I have another question I would like to see someone answer. Why are there so many omnivores who have to take the medication "Lipitor" for the rest of their lives?
@veganfemaleathlete Lipitor? How about because of poorly-trained doctors and the influence of big-pharma. Doctors often don't understand that the total cholesterol isn't the big predictor of cardiac events, that triglycerides and other ratios are. And big-pharma has very misleading advertising and review that make their product look more important than it is.
Can anyone explain why some people who eat meat have a vitamin B12 deficiency? That is a fact by the way. So, can any omnivores explain the answer? I know the answer. Do any of you know?
@veganfemaleathlete "some people who eat meat have a vitamin B12 deficiency? That is a fact by the way. So, can any omnivores explain the answer? I know the answer. Do any of you know?"
Some meat eaters don't absorb it well, some lack intrinsic factor. The truth is, though, that vegans are TWICE as likely as meat-eaters to be B12 deficient. I've shown those studies to everyone here before....
@AlbertaBeefy I am just trying to see what your actually claims about B12 are. I have heard many conflicting, mostly hilarious, claims from you and others today, and want to narrow it down, ok?
"Although bacteria in the large intestine of humans do produce vitamin B12, this vitamin B12 does not appear to be absorbed (5) and is not adequate to prevent a vitamin B12 deficiency (6). Although some vegans may get vitamin B12 from inadequate hand washing, this is not a reliable vitamin B12 source."
Sources:
5. Armstrong BK. Absorption of vitamin B12 from the human colon. Am J clin nutr
Curious, Fathomless, where are the hundreds of scientific articles you mention proving everything said here about B12 is wrong...
You've yet to post any.
NONE.
Because you're full of crapola. All it takes is 30 seconds on google scholar or pubmed searching "vegan" and "b12" to find hundreds of articles showing the dangers of B12 deficiencies in vegans, especially to infants/children...
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Curious, Fathomless, where are the hundreds of scientific articles you mention proving everything said here about B12 is wrong..." Hell, I am still trying to figure out what exactly is being said. Some are saying it is the length of the digestive tract, others are saying it is the existence or size of the rumen, others are saying it is the size of the cecum, still others are saying the B12 elves make it while herbivores sleep.
@VegansDontLikeTruth "In other words, you don't know anything about the subject" No, what I am stating is that I am trying to figure out what all you folks are claiming. You have made several conflicting claims yourself. Care to go on record with a single consolidated claim?
@VegansDontLikeTruth So, you are saying that B12 is produced only inside herbivores? Is that it? The obvious first question is: where do B12 supplements come from?
"I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!"
Actually, I did quote it. It's the exact same quote, and it's on his website, and has been FOR FIVE YEARS.
drmcdougall(dot)com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm
You'd know this if you really cared about the truth. It seems your more-concerned with hiding the truth and propagating zealotry."
"Our recent ancestors have not been vegan, but the ethical reasons for being vegan still hold all the same. A well-planned vegan diet is still healthy during all stages of the life cycle. We don't need to use misleading claims to try to deceive omnivores when we have the truth on our side. "
and another from vegansdontliketruth, again marked as spam:
"That quote below,BTW is from Dr. McArdle, a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist."
Also of note, check out the "Vegetarian Resource Group" at vrg(dot)org with their excellent article on our status:
"Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns. "
Interestingly, there were TONS of comments here last night from somebody posting links to all the vegan experts who show B12 supplementation is necessary on a vegan diet.
There were other links showing Fathomless completely incorrect, proving him wrong...
They all get marked as spam for some reason. I think vegan propagandist is actually Fathomless' full-time job- nobody would have that much time like he does otherwise...
Anyone with an understanding of science and the ability to research can tell you B12 is ONLY produced by bacteria. It is not created by mold, and cows don't eat B12. Cows DO get the bacteria in their rumen, and due to much different digestive system of herbivores, the bacteria create more B12 which is then available to carnivores/omnivores who ingest it.
"Our recent ancestors have not been vegan, but the ethical reasons for being vegan still hold all the same. A well-planned vegan diet is still healthy during all stages of the life cycle. We don't need to use misleading claims to try to deceive omnivores when we have the truth on our side. "
That quote below,BTW is from Dr. McArdle, a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.
It breaks through some of the commonly accepted ignorance that fish is "health food" and exposes lots of the pollution and consquences of fish farming.
Also of note, check out the "Vegetarian Resource Group" at vrg(dot)org with their excellent article on our status:
"Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns. "
@VegansDontLikeTruth Are you just trolling with a bunch of random quotes? We see your bias with your name, so it is clear you are hear to spread lies and hate. But can you at least do so coherently? TIA!
BTW it's also important to note Darwin wrote the Origin of the Species 140 years ago, and although it's a fantastic work, he's been shown incorrect in many of his theories by modern science.
Plus, there is no evidence he ever said we were herbivores, just that on vegan sites...
But hey, making stuff up seems to be what some of y'all like to do.
@VegansDontLikeTruth "But hey, making stuff up seems to be what some of y'all like to do." Said he who offers not a shred of evidence for anything whatsoever. Baffling!
@FathomlessJoy Well, if you had a clue about science, you'd realize herbivores get it from bacteria in their systems. Bacteria that have a chance to grow and develop BECAUSE herbivores are different than us. Especially in the case of ruminants.
Were we truly herbivorous, we'd get the B12 the same way. But we're not.
@VegansDontLikeTruth Whoops, now you are talking all over yourself. So are you saying that the B12 in herbivores is created inside the animals? Also are you now saying that a rumen is not required for B12 synthesis, as your originally claimed?
So, my question to you, if you could answer just one, because you actually answering what I have asked above is slim: if humans cannot make B12, and they cannot get it off plants, how can they get it from flesh?
@FathomlessJoy You are 1) misinterpreting what people say and 2) grasping at straws.
Herbivores, including ruminants, generate B12. It's in their intramuscular membranes, which we eat to get our B12.
Humans MUST have B12, that much is clear. Obviously, if we need B12, and obviously if supplements (other than meat) are a new thing, then obviously we are omnivores and meant to eat meat.
Scientifically it stands to reason. Anything other claim is unfounded.
@VegansDontLikeTruth " Even vegans know it, they just don't like to admit it... the diet is deficient, period." Even supplements of B12 are plant based, right? No animals are used in the production of it, right?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "How do you explain McDougall stating in EVERY book and EVERY DVD he sells "..." I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!
@FathomlessJoy "I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!"
Actually, I did quote it. It's the exact same quote, and it's on his website, and has been FOR FIVE YEARS.
drmcdougall(dot)com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm
You'd know this if you really cared about the truth. It seems your more-concerned with hiding the truth and propagating zealotry.
@VegansDontLikeTruth "the diet is deficient, period." But you have no proof of that, correct? In fact the very sources you cite, McDougall, Barnard, etc, you say do not fundamentally understand human nutritional and health, right? What strange bed fellows a life of lies creates, no?
@azrodrigues "1- Humans have canines" Dont many herbivores? And certainly our are nothing like those of amimals, right?
"humans cannot digest celulose." But cellulose performs vital functions in the digestive tract. BUT humans cannot digest meat, that is why it has be cooked just to be able to chew it and aborb it, without completely rotting the teeth and intestines. Flesh rots human teeth/intestines, but not as much with cooking. The problem with cooking meat are the carcinogens :(
@FathomlessJoy "humans cannot digest meat". We turn hole animal proteins into amino acids, unless biology changed dramatically since I entered collage, that's called digestion.. And a lot of people eat raw fish in Asia, but human culture have evolved to cook, not only meat but also grains and so on. Look, there are two types of omnivores: A natural carnivorous that evolved to also eat vegetables, fruits and so on and a natural herbivore that evolved to also eat meat. We are the second type.
@azrodrigues "3- dropping b12 vitamin pills and getting iron supplements isn't really natural to humans.." Where do all herbivores get their B12 and iron? From plants! Face it, you have to supplement you meat diet with vegan food, albeit indirectly and inefficiently! I cut out the middle man.
@FathomlessJoy Herbivores CAN get B12 from bacteria because they're designed to.
Humans cannot. Or, are you suddenly a bacteria-filled ruminant?
veganhealth(dot)org/b12/animal
Also, McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn will all tell you that you MUST supplement B12 as a vegan. I guess you ignore your own experts when trying to make your point without science to back you up?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Herbivores CAN get B12 from bacteria because they're designed to." Yep! That is why man can too. You believe too much propaganda. Even the supplements are made from plant sources not animals, right?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Humans cannot. Or, are you suddenly a bacteria-filled ruminant?" Not all herbivores are ruminants tho, right ;) How for instance do non-ruminant animals absorb B12? Are you confusing absorbsion with synthesis? Herbivores, including man, still must consume B12, right? I think you are talking about the way SOME animals absorb it not they way they consume it. All animals consume B12 from the soil and plants, correct?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Also, McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn will all tell you that you MUST supplement B12 as a vegan" That is the recommendation, yes, just as it is there recommendation that you end all consumption of animal products now, to save your own life. I find it surprsing you give so much of your time and engergy to warning others about a very rare condition, when is it not a fact that your own risk of premature heart attack or stroke is 1 in 2?
@azrodrigues "4- 4:39 We do have a couple of enzymes to digest animal protein in our body" Why is man the only animal who has to cook his food? Why do you need utensils to eat it?
@FathomlessJoy We r different from all other animals, and our culture has evolved to cook, not only meat but grains, vegetables etc. We could live without cooking, but we would be more likely to get diseases, and we would spend more time digesting everything.. What cooking does (apart from killing pathogens) is a process called protein denaturation, to both grains and meat, and that makes digestion a lot easier cause you break long protein chains into smaller ones (although nutrients r lost) .
@azrodrigues "We r different from all other animals, and our culture has evolved to cook, not only meat but grains, vegetables etc" So, before man "evolved to cook" he was not able to eat meat?
@FathomlessJoy Yes, and as a matter of fact humans do eat raw fish in some regions (Asia for instance). We are able to turn hole animal protein chains into amino acids, we have pepsin trypsin..
Do you eat raw soybean, beans, rice or quinoa? C'mon!! You could but you probably don't..
@azrodrigues "We are able to turn hole animal protein chains into amino acids, we have pepsin trypsin.." Now you are talking all over yourself, and avoiding answering questions. So you claimed that humans "evolved to cook" and that without cooking you claims there is disease. Don't you mean without cooking meat? So, if eating meat is so natural for man, why is man the only animal who must cook it?
I answered. Humans do eat raw fish in some regions nowadays. It's obvious that raw meat is more likely to have pathogens than raw grains and vegetables if left out of the refrigerator, but before the refrigerator and throw out nature usually one eats meat right after the death of the animal (although some animals like crows can eat a meat that we clearly wouldn't eat). No wonder why sushi is made with fresh fish.
I didn't claimed without cooking there's disease. I said it's more likely to happen
@azrodrigues "Do you eat raw soybean, beans, rice or quinoa? C'mon!! You could but you probably don't.." I said I was 75% raw, not 100%. So I do cook some dried foods and grains. I could easily drop beans and rice from my diet and be 100% raw, but they are healthy. Could you eat 75% of your meat raw? Isn't it true that we found out that most flesh is diseased and indegestible and makes humans very sick without burning it with fire first? Why is the man the only animal who must do this?
@azrodrigues "and that makes digestion a lot easier cause you break long protein chains into smaller ones " I don't understand, I eat tons raw food, about 75% of my diet is raw, and I dont have disease, I am not ill from pathogens, I have no problem with digestion. On the contrary I am in excellent health and very fit and digest my meals from start to finish in less than 8 hours. Can you explain this?
@FathomlessJoy Asians eat raw fish, cook their rice, drink green tea and have one of the highest living expectancy rate in the world. You might not have diseases but your more likely to get a pathogens by eating raw food.. Besides, today all the grains you eat probably are grown with a lot of chemicals involved and that also turn that risk down.
You are able to digest raw food but it would be easier if it was cooked. I eat black beans and rice like every day but their cooked. Never 8 them raw
@azrodrigues "5- 5:03 We are Omnivore!!!!!!!" Only if we are going by how many exclamations points you use ;)
According to Charles Darwin, man is an herbivore. But I do not need any scientist, not even Darwin, to tell me how to eat and treat animals. I am a man. I have learned.
@VegansDontLikeTruth "First, he never stated we were herbivore." Sure he did, right? Do you know who Charles Darwin is/was? Perhaps do a little research, ok?
BTW, not only do I have most of Darwin's works - there's also an internet project that publishes them online.
Knock yourself out trying to find the quote.
Please cite a source from Darwin's works, not some vegan propaganda website saying it's a quote from Darwin, if you can, OK? (Otherwise you have no evidence.)
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Knock yourself out trying to find the quote" I am not worried, as I have had this discussion with many typical meatheads. But my question to you is: if you are so sure we have no record of Darwin's conclusion man is herbivore AND you have already dismissed it out of hand even if I did produce it, why would either of us waste another precious second of our day discussing it? See if we are going to say it is meaningless before it is shown, then what's the point of showing it?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "@FathomlessJoy So you're now admitting you were wrong about Darwin saying we're herbivores?" No, I am asking: what use would it be to show someone evidence when they have already said that any such evidence would be meaningless. Is your time not more valuable than to waste it that way?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Please cite a source from Darwin's works, not some vegan propaganda website saying it's a quote from Darwin, if you can, OK? (Otherwise you have no evidence.)" But you have already claimed that Darwin has been proved wrong in other things, thus even if a quote was shown that absolutely proved what Darwin said, he would be quite obviously wrong anyway. Right? That is not a very scientific method of enquiry, is it?
@IcemanSupaFly "they eat the flesh of HERBIVORES who can synthesize b12 while humans cannot because they ARE NOT HERBIVORES." 2 things you need to check into. 1) Are you 100% sure herbivores, or any animal on earth, can synthesize B12? If so, please provide your source for that ok? 2) Assuming you can possibly prove any animal on the planet makes B12, you still didn't answer my question: how can humans consume it from animals but not consume it from any other source?
@FathomlessJoy "Are you 100% sure herbivores, or any animal on earth, can synthesize B12" yes of course it is well known that b12 is synthesized in the cecum of herbivores.
"how can humans consume it from animals but not consume it from any other source?"
of course they can consume it from any source that has it. what are you talking about?
@IcemanSupaFly "yes of course it is well known that b12 is synthesized in the cecum of herbivores." Nope. No animal synthesizes B12. All of them must digest it. Sorry!
Also, your buddy @VegansDontLikeTruth says that it require a rumen, not a cecum, although we are still waiting on him to tell us how herbivorous animals without rumens get B12. which should be good ;) Anyway, why not take it up with him and get your stories straight?
@IcemanSupaFly "of course they can consume it from any source that has it. what are you talking about?" Ah, so your whole thing hinges on whether animals can make it or not, right? You need to check your facts. B12 is produced by mold, it is all around us, in the air, on the soil and thus on all plants. It is a fact. No animal makes it, and every animal must consume it. You are free to try to find a scientific source that suggests otherwise, ok?
@IcemanSupaFly Prove that it is not. You stated that animals make it, that is a lie. Now, it is your turn to show some proof of anything, something, one thing. The fact is that not a single animals on Earth can make B12. That is a fact. Can you cite ANY scientific source that suggests otherwise?
@FathomlessJoy b12 is produced in the gut of herbivores. you claim that it is produced by mold and is everywhere. provide some proof that that is true. the onus is on you.
@AlbertaBeefy Beefy! How are ya, buddy? So it's easy to find a source stating that B12 is neither created by animals nor produced inside animals, but rather it is created by mold in the soil, and cows eat it when they consume plants. My question, before I choose from hundreds of sources, can you please give name a type of or a specific source that is acceptable to you? This way we don't get into the little girl's game of hopscotch @VegansDontLikeTruth plays of "that isn't a real source."
@FathomlessJoy I'll state with a certainty that B12 is produced by bacteria WITHIN an herbivores digestive tract. That is how they 'get' their b12 - it is synthesized by bacteria within their digestive tract.
Humans cannot and do not get it this way - we don't have the same diet nor the same digestive system as we're omnivores.
Until the advent of supplements we got our B12 from meat / animal products. There is no other way.
Please use any scientific source to prove otherwise.
@AlbertaBeefy " I'll state with a certainty that B12 is produced by bacteria WITHIN an herbivores digestive tract" and ONLY within herbivore digestive tracts?
@AlbertaBeefy Humans cannot produce B12. Like all animals humans do not produce B12. that is a fact. Now you claim that humans can get it from eating animals but not from any other source. Is that a fact? If so, can you please provide some scientific evidence of it?
@FathomlessJoy wh do even the vegan "experts" advocate taking b12 pills if it can be obtained in the soil or air as you claim? can it be obtained by breathing?
@AlbertaBeefy "B12 is not generated by bacteria in people, because we're not Herbivores." I am curious, what is the special thing found inside all herbivores that man does not have that allows the bacteria in hebivores to create B12 but not humans?
@MeatheadsDontLikeTruth claims it is the rumen. LOL This is obviously false, as many herbivores are not rumninants. Right? What is this magical part of other herbivores that allows B12 to be in their bodies?
@FathomlessJoy I've been reading his comments, and he doesn't claim it's the rumen, though he did ask if you were suddenly a ruminant... Of course, you're grasping, like always, to try to prove somebody wrong...
When only you are.
As for our differences? We're omnivores, with a different (shorter) digestive tract than herbivores.
@AlbertaBeefy "As for our differences? We're omnivores, with a different (shorter) digestive tract than herbivores." And this somehow is supposed to prove that there is something magical in other animals that produces b12. Hmmm.... Do we have shorter digestive tracts than ALL herbivores?
@AlbertaBeefy So, you saying that there is not a "special thing" inside herbivores, but rather a longer digestive tract that you claim allows them to create B12, is that it?
Also, is B12 only created inside the long digestive tracts of herbivores? Because there are vegan supplements of B12, right? How are those mades?
@FathomlessJoy b12 is NOT produced by mold. it is produced by a very specific kind of bacteria that thrive in the guts of herbivores. if it is all around why do even the vegan "experts" say to consume b12 pills?
@FathomlessJoy "...But you have already claimed that Darwin has been proved wrong in other things, thus even if a quote was shown that absolutely proved what Darwin said..."
So what you're saying is you cannot find any evidence Darwin said what you claim, so now you're grasping at straws for a reason not to back up your claims?
No, I am saying why provide evidence to someone who has already admitted they have closed their mind to enquiry? That would waste both out time, rigtht?
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Second, please provide the source for that quote, as it's not in his works that I can find." What quote? Please paste in the entire quote for us to consider; you are being choppy, fragmented, hard to follow; I am not sure what you are talking about.
@jpastuch You are not saying that smoking is healthy, are you? We should not only address this partially. I recommend looking at this holistically. Taken in it entirely, considered from all the angles of health, compassion, responsibility, the species, the planet, it is clear that the disgusting, brutaility of torting animals to eat them must stop, if man would ever truly evolve.
@azrodrigues "Humans have enzyms to digest both animal protein and sugar.." Actually, we do not. That is why you must cook flesh: we do not have the teeth or digestive systems to eat it. The trouble with cooking flesh is that the creatine burns, which causes powerful carcinogens to form on the meat that alter the very DNA of your body's cells. Any way you slice it, meat is bad news.
Leonardo da Vinci was a famous painter and important inventor. He was also a vegan long before the term was coined by Donald Watson back in the early part of the last century.
"in fact it is not even sure he was vegetarian" Perhaps you wish to provide some evidence? Waiting..."
-To this difficulty we have to add another one: the scarce or no importance which biographers pay to the eating habits of the people they write about. So for example Colin Spencer complains in his book The Heretics Feast that among 60 biographies about Leonardo Da Vinci only two of his biographers mention that he was a vegetarian. - Professor Luis Vallejo Rodríguez, Spain3
@celt130 "Your lies do not work" What lies have I told? Is it a lie animals are rape and tortured every day so that you can eat them? Is it a lie that you pay others to carry out that torture for you? Is it a lie that this is a cruel way of life for both those animals and you? Is it a lie that one can live a completely healthy life without ever killing or exploiting a single animal? What about those are lies?
See, I have the joyous and free position of having seen all of those with my own eyes!
AlbertaBeefy you are likely a beef farmer and making money is more important to you than is proper health. The Canadian Heart & Stroke Foundation has stated that 50% of Canadian women are at high risk of a heart attack or a stroke. That is for "omnivore" women. "Omnivore men have a 1 in 3 chance of the same health problem. That would be you man.
Mayim Bialik is on the Big Bang Theory show. In real life she has a Ph.D in the neurosciences from UCLA. She is a vegan and earned that Ph.D. while she was eating vegan food. Kaly Cuoco is also on the same show and she is also vegan. Check out her gorgeous photos.
@veganfemaleathlete Bialik is vegan simply for her own personal ethical reasons. She doesn't state any health reasons - as she's smart enough to know they're aren't any.
I don't believe Cuoco is a vegan in interviews she says things like ""I'm a good eater and like to make my own meals. I start my day with granola, fresh fruit, and skim milk ..." and we all know milk isn't vegan.
Besides even if these celebs ARE vegan, it doesn't make it healthier, does it?
@AlbertaBeefy "She doesn't state any health reasons - as she's smart enough to know they're aren't any." Actually ending consumption of rotting flesh for a healthy diet of fruits and veggies reduces your risk of every major disease known, including heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and most types of cancers.
@Razwell Actually, if you look beyond the human cattle prod of prime time TV you may learn that fish is extremely unhealthy to eat. Some government reports say that the benefits of fish may outweight the risks, but none of them claim that there are not risks. Fish contain toxins, beyond just the saturated fat and LDL, that are very harmful to humans. Check it: watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE
A video without scientific references and cartoons like this one are not considered as scientific evidence, even if you try as hard as you do. You fail.
"the China Study"
Google "rawfoodsos, The China study"
These are based on scientific articles to prove that some statements are wrong in the China study.
@celt130 "Google "rawfoodso...These are based on scientific articles to prove that some statements are wrong in the China study." LOL You cite a web blog by a 23-year-old catholic high school English teacher as some sort of evidence that counters in any small what the decades of peer-reviewed research by Dr. T. Colin Campbell?
@celt130 "You fail." Well I disagree. While I fail to effectively explain to animal rapists a better way of life, I consider each day that I do not rape animals myself a success. Perfect? Nope! Problem-free? No way! But successful at having a bit of compassion to end the suffering of an animal and some respect for mind, body, and spirit not to ingest or participate in the sickness? Yes.
@Razwell "FRAUDS are KEPT IN CHECK BY PEER REVIEW." Yep, and that's what makes the China Study so HUGE. It's the most comprehensive nutritional study humans have ever conducted; it was extensively peer reviewed. It reveals startling evidence that meat, dairy, eggs are extremely unhealhty. Check out some of the study findings presented by the lead research scientist, Dr T. Colin Campbell, an award winning scientist at Cornell University with over 300 peer reviewed papers here: watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM
Check out Karina Smirnoff's photos. She is a professional dancer who won the DWTS contest this year with the military vet who was hurt by a bomb blast. She is gorgeous and very sexy. She also happens to be vegan as is Kristen Bell. Both women are beautiful without any animal products at all. They will not even wear any fur products. Same for Amanda Beard and many more women.
"On her recent European vocation, she asked restaurants to serve salmon or chicken over a bed of the leafy green instead of carbs like pasta or rice. "
"...eats egg whites, fish, and salad. She has a tablespoon of olive oil on an empty stomach to help with digestion."
I think it's important to realize much of the information contained in this video is completely unscientific and without basis in reality, let-alone science.
As for the arguments below on fish - yes, there are levels of mercury in much of the US's supply of fish, however it's mostly low and science shows that eating moderate amounts of fish, even with low-levels of mercury content, provides health-benefits that more than offset the small risk that MAY come from of very low-levels of mercury.
@CanadaHC "I think it's important to realize much of the information contained in this video is completely unscientific and without basis in reality, let-alone science." Actually these are several opinions you offered here, but absolutely no facts at all. Care to provide some detail behind your opinions?
@CanadaHC "As for the arguments below on fish - yes, there are levels of mercury in much of the US's supply of fish" The toxicity levels of fish are growing and the production methods are getting more disasterous all the time. In addition, when cooked it has carcinogens that alter your DNA. I know some of us are taken in by the concept of "fish is health food" but it's laughable when we consider the facts. Here are some facts about fish and the unhealthiness of eating it: watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE
@Razwell Which points did you want me to address? He is ranting like a madman, totally belligerent, I cannot make out a point at all. Can you help me, please?
I am on FIRM scientific ground, FathomlessFuck, with Dr. Darisuh Mozaffarian's OBJECTIVE, GENUINELY SCIENTIFIC information. Too little is known to nutritional science, yet, for YOUR certitude, as well as the vegan gurus certitude . GENUINE SCIENCE does NOT permit that. Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian ADMITS that there is A LOT of UNANSWERED SCIENCE here.
Educate yourself from REPUTABLE sources. You have A LOT of learning to do.
@DrMarkSuarezPhD "I am on FIRM scientific ground, FathomlessFuck" Which is why you provide no evidence at all, constantly have you use caps lock, call names and spew hate, while providing no rational insight at all? Is that indicative of science in your world?
@AlbertaBeefy I am waiting for any objective information you have, Beefy! Or perhaps you think you get to roll up all redneck and scream, "This is all fuckin bullshit man" and everyone else just magically believes you?
@AlbertaBeefy Again, perhaps I was not clear, in that conversation I was having with someone else that you jumped into. DrSueIsDead asked for sources showing that meat and fish are toxic. I replied saying that I would show him sources of evidence of how meat, fish, dairy and eggs are toxic and unhealthy to humans. Then I pasted those articles that you perhaps you should read really closely. Namaste.
It also states "Based on the current evidence, the health risks for adults of not consuming fish outweigh potential risks from mercury or other contaminants. "
How's that bad? How does this article support you?
@AlbertaBeefy "How's that bad? How does this article support you?" Actually, as pointed out previously, you have read this article selectively, Beefy, which you are prone to do.
@FathomlessJoy "Actually, as pointed out previously, you have read this article selectively, Beefy, which you are prone to do."
Respectfully, I quoted all relevant points. You then pointed out there were questions regarding mercury, which I agree there are, but the article concludes:
"Based on the current evidence, the health risks for adults of NOT consuming fish outweigh potential risks from mercury or other contaminants. "
@AlbertaBeefy "WHO here is reading selectively?" As I said, 1st of all you ignore that in your own selectively pasted quote it notes that 1) there are toxins in fish, which was the request that the DrJaurez request, and 2) that there is in fact a risk from eating fish, again provided at request.
Next, here's a quote you didn't select:
"concerns regarding potential harm from exposure to mercury [2–6], a heavy metal present in fish, have tempered the perception of fish as a healthy food."
My B12 levels are normal as is my blood sugar level at 4.5 mmols/liter. Not bad for a vegan wouldn't you have to admit?
veganfemaleathlete 2 hours ago
Hockey players eat meat and many get injured such as the recently injured superstar who now cannot play any longer due to brain injury. Do you know his name? Hockey is a violent sport a lot of the time.
veganfemaleathlete 3 hours ago
Loreen Dinwinnie is 108 years of age on a vegan diet. That is much older than your grandmother Beef boy.
veganfemaleathlete 3 hours ago
My main reason for commenting in this video is to dispel the lies in the videos 'arguments'. There is no scientific basis for it.
vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
Conclusion: Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet.
veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-humans-omnivores.html also breaks down the dishonesty in arguments like those in this video.
AlbertaBeefy 3 hours ago 4
How can Betty White be working and healthy if the vegan diet is so bad for anyone? Many people do well without meat or it's byproducts. Leonardo da Vinci once said: "There will come a time when the murder of animals is seen as the same as the murder of humans". He was on a plant-based diet from a young age and lived to 67 years of age when most people back then did not live that long.
veganfemaleathlete 3 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete FYI I've never said the vegan diet is bad for anyone. Look at my quotes, I say it's certainly healthier than SAD.
I do state, and science backs me up, that it NEEDS B12 and possible other supplementation. All vegan medical experts agree with me here. All of them.
However it is not now and never has been proven that meats (except processed meats) are un-healthy. A meat-only diet isn't healthy, but meat/fish and lots of veggies IS.
AlbertaBeefy 3 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete keep in mind too that Davinci's age wouldn't just be attributed to his diet, but to his lifestyle. He had benefactors, and was not one of the poor, working-class uneducated peasants that had no access to doctors of his day. He was also less-likely to be involved in workplace accidents, etc.
It's like saying meat is unhealthy because inuits don't live as long ... it's a baseless argument due to confounding variables, like access to health care, etc.
AlbertaBeefy 3 hours ago
How many actors in Hollywood are still active and working at 90 years of age? Betty White turned 90 last week and she is still active and working on two different shows now. She has been on a plant-based diet or vegan diet since she was a child. She does not need any medications yet most omnivores take medications for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, diabetes, and a wide range of types of cancer.
veganfemaleathlete 3 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete By that logic lets take up smoking and drinking.
George Burns lived to be 100, and attributed his longevity to his regular diet of martinis, smoking the big cigars that were his lifelong trademark, and dating pretty women. Burns ignored medical advice to change his lifestyle...
It's not science to list one person as evidence offor a lifestyle... There's lots of old people that aren't vegan. Lots of them. My Grandmother is 97 and eats meat every day...
AlbertaBeefy 3 hours ago
I'd like to pose the same question as AlbertaBeefy:
How does listing celebrity vegans or vegetarians scientifically prove it to be healthier than eating a healthy diet that includes meat?
Please explain your scientific argument here...
CanadaHC 4 hours ago
U.S. statistics show only 3.2 percent of Americans are vegetarian, and just 0.5 percent are vegan...
If the rate of veganism in the entertainment industry were more than double the national average, then sure, just UNDER 99% aren't vegan... but unless you can show that with a statistical sampling of the millions of people that work in the entertainment industry, you're just guessing. Throwing a handful of names is hardly scientific, is it?
CanadaHC 4 hours ago
Just look up vegan actors on Google and you will see numerous actors, musicians, physicists, writers, and politicians including Bill Clinton.
veganfemaleathlete 4 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete Clinton isn't vegan either.
CanadaHC 4 hours ago
Well, like he said, that's a very small, incredibly small list of people. Considering that there are hundreds of thousands working in the entertainment industry (if not more) you'd have to come up with a lot more names.... Hundreds...
BTW, as mentioned earlier, many of the names you bring up aren't vegan - documented as meat, fish, egg or dairy eaters.
So... it appears you have a much bigger list to come up with, and some verification to do before you present it. His truth stands.
CanadaHC 4 hours ago
Sandra Oh, Casey Affleck, Tobey McQuire, Karina Smirnoff, Bob Barker, Betty White, and there are even more than those already listed. AlbertBeefy thinks I am blind or not very intelligent. He just described himself.
veganfemaleathlete 4 hours ago
AlbertaBeefy has made up some very false stats. He wrote that 99.9% of Hollywood people eat meat. Wrong again as Alicia Silverstone, Emily Deschamel, Zooey Deschamel, Jaoquin Phoenix, Woody Harrelson and many more are vegan. AlbertaBeefy lied once again.
veganfemaleathlete 4 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete Do the math... hundreds of thousands of people in Hollywood and you list a handful that don't eat meat?
Are you mentally-challenged? Or just blind?
AlbertaBeefy 4 hours ago
Carl Lewis was not originally vegan and was involved in much of the same cheating scandals as Ben Johnson... He didn't go vegan until later... One could make the case that due to genetics (and "supplementation") he performed well IN SPITE of being vegan, not because of it.
Regardless, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up celebrities... just because a celebrity chooses a lifestyle doesn't make it best. 99.99% of athletes still eat meat... as do 99.99% of hollywood folk...
AlbertaBeefy 5 hours ago 2
Check out the video on YouTube entitled, "Carl Lewis- Olympic medals through the vegan diet". He was definitely vegan when he won all those gold medals with no cheating.
veganfemaleathlete 6 hours ago
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Still no answer to either of my questions. That just proves how ignorant these omnivores happen to be regarding health issues.
veganfemaleathlete 6 hours ago
I have another question I would like to see someone answer. Why are there so many omnivores who have to take the medication "Lipitor" for the rest of their lives?
veganfemaleathlete 8 hours ago
@veganfemaleathlete Lipitor? How about because of poorly-trained doctors and the influence of big-pharma. Doctors often don't understand that the total cholesterol isn't the big predictor of cardiac events, that triglycerides and other ratios are. And big-pharma has very misleading advertising and review that make their product look more important than it is.
Do some research...
AlbertaBeefy 5 hours ago
Can anyone explain why some people who eat meat have a vitamin B12 deficiency? That is a fact by the way. So, can any omnivores explain the answer? I know the answer. Do any of you know?
veganfemaleathlete 8 hours ago
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@veganfemaleathlete "some people who eat meat have a vitamin B12 deficiency? That is a fact by the way. So, can any omnivores explain the answer? I know the answer. Do any of you know?"
Some meat eaters don't absorb it well, some lack intrinsic factor. The truth is, though, that vegans are TWICE as likely as meat-eaters to be B12 deficient. I've shown those studies to everyone here before....
AlbertaBeefy 5 hours ago
Hey Fathomless, read the comments and learn something instead of spamming page after page of stupidity... All the answers are there. ]
Not that you care, you simply want the truth to go away.
AlbertaBeefy 8 hours ago
@AlbertaBeefy I am just trying to see what your actually claims about B12 are. I have heard many conflicting, mostly hilarious, claims from you and others today, and want to narrow it down, ok?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@AlbertaBeefy "you simply want the truth to go away" Actually, I want to see if you have any, Big Beefster.
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
From a great scientific article:
"Although bacteria in the large intestine of humans do produce vitamin B12, this vitamin B12 does not appear to be absorbed (5) and is not adequate to prevent a vitamin B12 deficiency (6). Although some vegans may get vitamin B12 from inadequate hand washing, this is not a reliable vitamin B12 source."
Sources:
5. Armstrong BK. Absorption of vitamin B12 from the human colon. Am J clin nutr
6. Callender ST, Spray GH. Latent pernicious anemia. Br J Haematol
AlbertaBeefy 8 hours ago 5
@AlbertaBeefy Oh, so animals are not sources of it, then. Is that what you are saying now?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@AlbertaBeefy So, you claim we can only get it from animals, but not by eating any other source, right?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
Curious, Fathomless, where are the hundreds of scientific articles you mention proving everything said here about B12 is wrong...
You've yet to post any.
NONE.
Because you're full of crapola. All it takes is 30 seconds on google scholar or pubmed searching "vegan" and "b12" to find hundreds of articles showing the dangers of B12 deficiencies in vegans, especially to infants/children...
But hey, you have the truth right? So show it...
VegansDontLikeTruth 8 hours ago 3
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Curious, Fathomless, where are the hundreds of scientific articles you mention proving everything said here about B12 is wrong..." Hell, I am still trying to figure out what exactly is being said. Some are saying it is the length of the digestive tract, others are saying it is the existence or size of the rumen, others are saying it is the size of the cecum, still others are saying the B12 elves make it while herbivores sleep.
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy "Hell, I am still trying to figure out what exactly is being said. Some are saying..."
In other words, you don't know anything about the subject, and are completely clueless yourself, yet you spout dogma like it's truth??
ROFLMAO at your idiocy.
VegansDontLikeTruth 8 hours ago 5
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@VegansDontLikeTruth "In other words, you don't know anything about the subject" No, what I am stating is that I am trying to figure out what all you folks are claiming. You have made several conflicting claims yourself. Care to go on record with a single consolidated claim?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth So, you are saying that B12 is produced only inside herbivores? Is that it? The obvious first question is: where do B12 supplements come from?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
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... and more:
"I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!"
Actually, I did quote it. It's the exact same quote, and it's on his website, and has been FOR FIVE YEARS.
drmcdougall(dot)com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm
You'd know this if you really cared about the truth. It seems your more-concerned with hiding the truth and propagating zealotry."
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
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... yet another:
Or this post, rather well documented and laid-out by a vegan as well:
veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-humans-omnivores.html
"Our recent ancestors have not been vegan, but the ethical reasons for being vegan still hold all the same. A well-planned vegan diet is still healthy during all stages of the life cycle. We don't need to use misleading claims to try to deceive omnivores when we have the truth on our side. "
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
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and another from vegansdontliketruth, again marked as spam:
"That quote below,BTW is from Dr. McArdle, a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist."
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
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and another one:
Also of note, check out the "Vegetarian Resource Group" at vrg(dot)org with their excellent article on our status:
"Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns. "
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
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Oh, searching I found those posts:
"Also, re B12: "Unfortunately for vegans, the only source of B12 is through a supplement." a quote taken from vegfamily(dot)com
How do you explain McDougall stating in EVERY book and EVERY DVD he sells "...take a minimum of 5 micrograms of supplemental vitamin B12 each day. "
It's plain vegans cannot get B12. Even vegans know it, they just don't like to admit it... the diet is deficient, period."
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 5
Interestingly, there were TONS of comments here last night from somebody posting links to all the vegan experts who show B12 supplementation is necessary on a vegan diet.
There were other links showing Fathomless completely incorrect, proving him wrong...
They all get marked as spam for some reason. I think vegan propagandist is actually Fathomless' full-time job- nobody would have that much time like he does otherwise...
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 5
Anyone with an understanding of science and the ability to research can tell you B12 is ONLY produced by bacteria. It is not created by mold, and cows don't eat B12. Cows DO get the bacteria in their rumen, and due to much different digestive system of herbivores, the bacteria create more B12 which is then available to carnivores/omnivores who ingest it.
That is how humans get B12 naturally. Period.
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
Or this post, rather well documented and laid-out by a vegan as well:
veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/10/are-humans-omnivores.html
"Our recent ancestors have not been vegan, but the ethical reasons for being vegan still hold all the same. A well-planned vegan diet is still healthy during all stages of the life cycle. We don't need to use misleading claims to try to deceive omnivores when we have the truth on our side. "
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Or this post, rather well documented and laid-out by a vegan as well:" Did you see this: watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM
It details the tremendous health consequences of meat consumption.
What about this: cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cooked-meats
Lays out clearly the facts that cooking meat creates carcinogens. With lower cutting temps, there are less carcinogens, but they are still present :(
FathomlessJoy 12 hours ago
That quote below,BTW is from Dr. McArdle, a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth You should check out this: watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE
It breaks through some of the commonly accepted ignorance that fish is "health food" and exposes lots of the pollution and consquences of fish farming.
FathomlessJoy 12 hours ago
Also of note, check out the "Vegetarian Resource Group" at vrg(dot)org with their excellent article on our status:
"Conclusion
Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns. "
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth Are you just trolling with a bunch of random quotes? We see your bias with your name, so it is clear you are hear to spread lies and hate. But can you at least do so coherently? TIA!
FathomlessJoy 12 hours ago
BTW it's also important to note Darwin wrote the Origin of the Species 140 years ago, and although it's a fantastic work, he's been shown incorrect in many of his theories by modern science.
Plus, there is no evidence he ever said we were herbivores, just that on vegan sites...
But hey, making stuff up seems to be what some of y'all like to do.
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "BTW it's also important to note Darwin wrote the Origin of the Species 140 years ago" Hedging your bets I see ;)
So, your argument goes like this: Darwin did not conclude that the natural diet of man was plants, BUT even if he did, he was wrong. Riiiight. ROFL
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
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@VegansDontLikeTruth "But hey, making stuff up seems to be what some of y'all like to do." Said he who offers not a shred of evidence for anything whatsoever. Baffling!
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
Also, re B12: "Unfortunately for vegans, the only source of B12 is through a supplement." a quote taken from vegfamily(dot)com
How do you explain McDougall stating in EVERY book and EVERY DVD he sells "...take a minimum of 5 micrograms of supplemental vitamin B12 each day. "
It's plain vegans cannot get B12. Even vegans know it, they just don't like to admit it... the diet is deficient, period.
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "It's plain vegans cannot get B12" How do other herbivores get B12? In fact how do all animals get it?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy Well, if you had a clue about science, you'd realize herbivores get it from bacteria in their systems. Bacteria that have a chance to grow and develop BECAUSE herbivores are different than us. Especially in the case of ruminants.
Were we truly herbivorous, we'd get the B12 the same way. But we're not.
Do you look anything up? Or just make crap up?
VegansDontLikeTruth 11 hours ago 3
@VegansDontLikeTruth Whoops, now you are talking all over yourself. So are you saying that the B12 in herbivores is created inside the animals? Also are you now saying that a rumen is not required for B12 synthesis, as your originally claimed?
So, my question to you, if you could answer just one, because you actually answering what I have asked above is slim: if humans cannot make B12, and they cannot get it off plants, how can they get it from flesh?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy You are 1) misinterpreting what people say and 2) grasping at straws.
Herbivores, including ruminants, generate B12. It's in their intramuscular membranes, which we eat to get our B12.
Humans MUST have B12, that much is clear. Obviously, if we need B12, and obviously if supplements (other than meat) are a new thing, then obviously we are omnivores and meant to eat meat.
Scientifically it stands to reason. Anything other claim is unfounded.
VegansDontLikeTruth 9 hours ago 4
@VegansDontLikeTruth How have I misinterpretted these two statements?
@VegansDontLikeTruth wrote: "Well, if you had a clue about science, you'd realize herbivores get it from bacteria in their systems"
@VegansDontLikeTruth wrote: "Herbivores, including ruminants, generate B12. It's in their intramuscular membranes, which we eat to get our B12."
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth " Even vegans know it, they just don't like to admit it... the diet is deficient, period." Even supplements of B12 are plant based, right? No animals are used in the production of it, right?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "How do you explain McDougall stating in EVERY book and EVERY DVD he sells "..." I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
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@FathomlessJoy "I am not sure, can you please cite those exact passages in every one of his books for us all to consider? You like all of us to cite sources, correct? Thanks!"
Actually, I did quote it. It's the exact same quote, and it's on his website, and has been FOR FIVE YEARS.
drmcdougall(dot)com/misc/2007nl/nov/b12.htm
You'd know this if you really cared about the truth. It seems your more-concerned with hiding the truth and propagating zealotry.
VegansDontLikeTruth 11 hours ago 2
@VegansDontLikeTruth "the diet is deficient, period." But you have no proof of that, correct? In fact the very sources you cite, McDougall, Barnard, etc, you say do not fundamentally understand human nutritional and health, right? What strange bed fellows a life of lies creates, no?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
put it this way. When you eat a lot of meat, or a lot of vegetables, how do you feel? Case closed.
AntonTheSpot 22 hours ago
1- Humans have canines
2- 1:35 Unlike cows, giraffes, rabbits, horses, deers, llamas and camels, humans cannot digest celulose.
3- dropping b12 vitamin pills and getting iron supplements isn't really natural to humans..
4- 4:39 We do have a couple of enzymes to digest animal protein in our body
5- 5:03 We are Omnivore!!!!!!!
azrodrigues 1 day ago 4
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@azrodrigues "1- Humans have canines" Dont many herbivores? And certainly our are nothing like those of amimals, right?
"humans cannot digest celulose." But cellulose performs vital functions in the digestive tract. BUT humans cannot digest meat, that is why it has be cooked just to be able to chew it and aborb it, without completely rotting the teeth and intestines. Flesh rots human teeth/intestines, but not as much with cooking. The problem with cooking meat are the carcinogens :(
FathomlessJoy 22 hours ago
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azrodrigues 10 hours ago
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azrodrigues 10 hours ago
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@FathomlessJoy "humans cannot digest meat". We turn hole animal proteins into amino acids, unless biology changed dramatically since I entered collage, that's called digestion.. And a lot of people eat raw fish in Asia, but human culture have evolved to cook, not only meat but also grains and so on. Look, there are two types of omnivores: A natural carnivorous that evolved to also eat vegetables, fruits and so on and a natural herbivore that evolved to also eat meat. We are the second type.
azrodrigues 10 hours ago
@azrodrigues "3- dropping b12 vitamin pills and getting iron supplements isn't really natural to humans.." Where do all herbivores get their B12 and iron? From plants! Face it, you have to supplement you meat diet with vegan food, albeit indirectly and inefficiently! I cut out the middle man.
FathomlessJoy 22 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy Herbivores CAN get B12 from bacteria because they're designed to.
Humans cannot. Or, are you suddenly a bacteria-filled ruminant?
veganhealth(dot)org/b12/animal
Also, McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn will all tell you that you MUST supplement B12 as a vegan. I guess you ignore your own experts when trying to make your point without science to back you up?
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
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@VegansDontLikeTruth "Herbivores CAN get B12 from bacteria because they're designed to." Yep! That is why man can too. You believe too much propaganda. Even the supplements are made from plant sources not animals, right?
FathomlessJoy 12 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Humans cannot. Or, are you suddenly a bacteria-filled ruminant?" Not all herbivores are ruminants tho, right ;) How for instance do non-ruminant animals absorb B12? Are you confusing absorbsion with synthesis? Herbivores, including man, still must consume B12, right? I think you are talking about the way SOME animals absorb it not they way they consume it. All animals consume B12 from the soil and plants, correct?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Also, McDougall, Barnard, Esselstyn will all tell you that you MUST supplement B12 as a vegan" That is the recommendation, yes, just as it is there recommendation that you end all consumption of animal products now, to save your own life. I find it surprsing you give so much of your time and engergy to warning others about a very rare condition, when is it not a fact that your own risk of premature heart attack or stroke is 1 in 2?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
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azrodrigues 10 hours ago
@azrodrigues "4- 4:39 We do have a couple of enzymes to digest animal protein in our body" Why is man the only animal who has to cook his food? Why do you need utensils to eat it?
FathomlessJoy 22 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy We r different from all other animals, and our culture has evolved to cook, not only meat but grains, vegetables etc. We could live without cooking, but we would be more likely to get diseases, and we would spend more time digesting everything.. What cooking does (apart from killing pathogens) is a process called protein denaturation, to both grains and meat, and that makes digestion a lot easier cause you break long protein chains into smaller ones (although nutrients r lost) .
azrodrigues 10 hours ago
@azrodrigues "We r different from all other animals, and our culture has evolved to cook, not only meat but grains, vegetables etc" So, before man "evolved to cook" he was not able to eat meat?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy Yes, and as a matter of fact humans do eat raw fish in some regions (Asia for instance). We are able to turn hole animal protein chains into amino acids, we have pepsin trypsin..
Do you eat raw soybean, beans, rice or quinoa? C'mon!! You could but you probably don't..
azrodrigues 10 hours ago
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@azrodrigues "We are able to turn hole animal protein chains into amino acids, we have pepsin trypsin.." Now you are talking all over yourself, and avoiding answering questions. So you claimed that humans "evolved to cook" and that without cooking you claims there is disease. Don't you mean without cooking meat? So, if eating meat is so natural for man, why is man the only animal who must cook it?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
I answered. Humans do eat raw fish in some regions nowadays. It's obvious that raw meat is more likely to have pathogens than raw grains and vegetables if left out of the refrigerator, but before the refrigerator and throw out nature usually one eats meat right after the death of the animal (although some animals like crows can eat a meat that we clearly wouldn't eat). No wonder why sushi is made with fresh fish.
I didn't claimed without cooking there's disease. I said it's more likely to happen
azrodrigues 9 hours ago
@azrodrigues "Do you eat raw soybean, beans, rice or quinoa? C'mon!! You could but you probably don't.." I said I was 75% raw, not 100%. So I do cook some dried foods and grains. I could easily drop beans and rice from my diet and be 100% raw, but they are healthy. Could you eat 75% of your meat raw? Isn't it true that we found out that most flesh is diseased and indegestible and makes humans very sick without burning it with fire first? Why is the man the only animal who must do this?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@azrodrigues "and that makes digestion a lot easier cause you break long protein chains into smaller ones " I don't understand, I eat tons raw food, about 75% of my diet is raw, and I dont have disease, I am not ill from pathogens, I have no problem with digestion. On the contrary I am in excellent health and very fit and digest my meals from start to finish in less than 8 hours. Can you explain this?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy Asians eat raw fish, cook their rice, drink green tea and have one of the highest living expectancy rate in the world. You might not have diseases but your more likely to get a pathogens by eating raw food.. Besides, today all the grains you eat probably are grown with a lot of chemicals involved and that also turn that risk down.
You are able to digest raw food but it would be easier if it was cooked. I eat black beans and rice like every day but their cooked. Never 8 them raw
azrodrigues 9 hours ago
@azrodrigues "5- 5:03 We are Omnivore!!!!!!!" Only if we are going by how many exclamations points you use ;)
According to Charles Darwin, man is an herbivore. But I do not need any scientist, not even Darwin, to tell me how to eat and treat animals. I am a man. I have learned.
FathomlessJoy 22 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy Interesting, I see vegans bring up the Darwin quote a lot...
Yet I just checked his complete works, and it's not there.
I assume you're talking about the "normal food of humans is vegetable" quote?
First, he never stated we were herbivore. Second, please provide the source for that quote, as it's not in his works that I can find.
Without a source, the quote is likely made-up.
VegansDontLikeTruth 21 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Interesting, I see vegans bring up the Darwin quote a lot..." What Darwin quote are you talking about?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "First, he never stated we were herbivore." Sure he did, right? Do you know who Charles Darwin is/was? Perhaps do a little research, ok?
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy You think Darwin stated humans are herbivores? Please cite YOUR source this time...
VegansDontLikeTruth 11 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth Now you are asking. Hmmm...maybe I just might ;)
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy That'd be great.
BTW, not only do I have most of Darwin's works - there's also an internet project that publishes them online.
Knock yourself out trying to find the quote.
Please cite a source from Darwin's works, not some vegan propaganda website saying it's a quote from Darwin, if you can, OK? (Otherwise you have no evidence.)
VegansDontLikeTruth 10 hours ago 4
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Knock yourself out trying to find the quote" I am not worried, as I have had this discussion with many typical meatheads. But my question to you is: if you are so sure we have no record of Darwin's conclusion man is herbivore AND you have already dismissed it out of hand even if I did produce it, why would either of us waste another precious second of our day discussing it? See if we are going to say it is meaningless before it is shown, then what's the point of showing it?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy So you're now admitting you were wrong about Darwin saying we're herbivores?
Wow. Amazing. There might be hope for you yet.
VegansDontLikeTruth 9 hours ago 3
@VegansDontLikeTruth "@FathomlessJoy So you're now admitting you were wrong about Darwin saying we're herbivores?" No, I am asking: what use would it be to show someone evidence when they have already said that any such evidence would be meaningless. Is your time not more valuable than to waste it that way?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Please cite a source from Darwin's works, not some vegan propaganda website saying it's a quote from Darwin, if you can, OK? (Otherwise you have no evidence.)" But you have already claimed that Darwin has been proved wrong in other things, thus even if a quote was shown that absolutely proved what Darwin said, he would be quite obviously wrong anyway. Right? That is not a very scientific method of enquiry, is it?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy "if humans cannot make B12, and they cannot get it off plants, how can they get it from flesh?"
thats a very simple answer. they eat the flesh of HERBIVORES who can synthesize b12 while humans cannot because they ARE NOT HERBIVORES.
IcemanSupaFly 10 hours ago
@IcemanSupaFly "they eat the flesh of HERBIVORES who can synthesize b12 while humans cannot because they ARE NOT HERBIVORES." 2 things you need to check into. 1) Are you 100% sure herbivores, or any animal on earth, can synthesize B12? If so, please provide your source for that ok? 2) Assuming you can possibly prove any animal on the planet makes B12, you still didn't answer my question: how can humans consume it from animals but not consume it from any other source?
FathomlessJoy 10 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy "Are you 100% sure herbivores, or any animal on earth, can synthesize B12" yes of course it is well known that b12 is synthesized in the cecum of herbivores.
"how can humans consume it from animals but not consume it from any other source?"
of course they can consume it from any source that has it. what are you talking about?
IcemanSupaFly 10 hours ago
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@IcemanSupaFly "yes of course it is well known that b12 is synthesized in the cecum of herbivores." Nope. No animal synthesizes B12. All of them must digest it. Sorry!
Also, your buddy @VegansDontLikeTruth says that it require a rumen, not a cecum, although we are still waiting on him to tell us how herbivorous animals without rumens get B12. which should be good ;) Anyway, why not take it up with him and get your stories straight?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@IcemanSupaFly "of course they can consume it from any source that has it. what are you talking about?" Ah, so your whole thing hinges on whether animals can make it or not, right? You need to check your facts. B12 is produced by mold, it is all around us, in the air, on the soil and thus on all plants. It is a fact. No animal makes it, and every animal must consume it. You are free to try to find a scientific source that suggests otherwise, ok?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
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@FathomlessJoy "B12 is produced by mold, it is all around us, in the air, on the soil and thus on all plants"
where is your evidence to back that?
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy if b12 was in the air you could get it by breathing. youre really reaching now.
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@IcemanSupaFly Prove that it is not. You stated that animals make it, that is a lie. Now, it is your turn to show some proof of anything, something, one thing. The fact is that not a single animals on Earth can make B12. That is a fact. Can you cite ANY scientific source that suggests otherwise?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy b12 is produced in the gut of herbivores. you claim that it is produced by mold and is everywhere. provide some proof that that is true. the onus is on you.
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy B12 is generated in herbivores by bacteria. Period.
B12 is not generated by bacteria in people, because we're not Herbivores.
This is the truth, you can search this anywhere. You will never find a scientific source disputing this.
Have a nice day.
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 2
@AlbertaBeefy Beefy! How are ya, buddy? So it's easy to find a source stating that B12 is neither created by animals nor produced inside animals, but rather it is created by mold in the soil, and cows eat it when they consume plants. My question, before I choose from hundreds of sources, can you please give name a type of or a specific source that is acceptable to you? This way we don't get into the little girl's game of hopscotch @VegansDontLikeTruth plays of "that isn't a real source."
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy "it is created by mold in the soil, and cows eat it when they consume plants"
I would like to see evidence of that.
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy I'll state with a certainty that B12 is produced by bacteria WITHIN an herbivores digestive tract. That is how they 'get' their b12 - it is synthesized by bacteria within their digestive tract.
Humans cannot and do not get it this way - we don't have the same diet nor the same digestive system as we're omnivores.
Until the advent of supplements we got our B12 from meat / animal products. There is no other way.
Please use any scientific source to prove otherwise.
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 3
@AlbertaBeefy " I'll state with a certainty that B12 is produced by bacteria WITHIN an herbivores digestive tract" and ONLY within herbivore digestive tracts?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@AlbertaBeefy Humans cannot produce B12. Like all animals humans do not produce B12. that is a fact. Now you claim that humans can get it from eating animals but not from any other source. Is that a fact? If so, can you please provide some scientific evidence of it?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy As stated multiple times, humans cannot get ENOUGH B12 without meat or external supplementation. That is the known fact, yes.
AlbertaBeefy 5 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy wh do even the vegan "experts" advocate taking b12 pills if it can be obtained in the soil or air as you claim? can it be obtained by breathing?
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@AlbertaBeefy "B12 is not generated by bacteria in people, because we're not Herbivores." I am curious, what is the special thing found inside all herbivores that man does not have that allows the bacteria in hebivores to create B12 but not humans?
@MeatheadsDontLikeTruth claims it is the rumen. LOL This is obviously false, as many herbivores are not rumninants. Right? What is this magical part of other herbivores that allows B12 to be in their bodies?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy I've been reading his comments, and he doesn't claim it's the rumen, though he did ask if you were suddenly a ruminant... Of course, you're grasping, like always, to try to prove somebody wrong...
When only you are.
As for our differences? We're omnivores, with a different (shorter) digestive tract than herbivores.
derp.
AlbertaBeefy 9 hours ago 4
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@AlbertaBeefy "As for our differences? We're omnivores, with a different (shorter) digestive tract than herbivores." And this somehow is supposed to prove that there is something magical in other animals that produces b12. Hmmm.... Do we have shorter digestive tracts than ALL herbivores?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy non ruminants have larger cecums than humans
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
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@AlbertaBeefy So, you saying that there is not a "special thing" inside herbivores, but rather a longer digestive tract that you claim allows them to create B12, is that it?
Also, is B12 only created inside the long digestive tracts of herbivores? Because there are vegan supplements of B12, right? How are those mades?
FathomlessJoy 8 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy b12 is NOT produced by mold. it is produced by a very specific kind of bacteria that thrive in the guts of herbivores. if it is all around why do even the vegan "experts" say to consume b12 pills?
IcemanSupaFly 9 hours ago
@FathomlessJoy "...But you have already claimed that Darwin has been proved wrong in other things, thus even if a quote was shown that absolutely proved what Darwin said..."
So what you're saying is you cannot find any evidence Darwin said what you claim, so now you're grasping at straws for a reason not to back up your claims?
Typical.
VegansDontLikeTruth 9 hours ago 3
@VegansDontLikeTruth "So what you're saying is you cannot find any evidence "
No, I am saying why provide evidence to someone who has already admitted they have closed their mind to enquiry? That would waste both out time, rigtht?
FathomlessJoy 9 hours ago
@VegansDontLikeTruth "Second, please provide the source for that quote, as it's not in his works that I can find." What quote? Please paste in the entire quote for us to consider; you are being choppy, fragmented, hard to follow; I am not sure what you are talking about.
FathomlessJoy 11 hours ago
This makes perfect sense! Humans do not naturally eat meat because we:
1. Also enjoy smoking tobacco (a plant)
2. A baby would not eat an entire live rabbit (never mind that a baby also would not eat an entire apple).
tHiS iS rEaL sCieNtiFiC d00d, I'm gonna send it to all my disgusting meat eating (ex)-friends!!!!!!!
jpastuch 1 day ago
@jpastuch You are not saying that smoking is healthy, are you? We should not only address this partially. I recommend looking at this holistically. Taken in it entirely, considered from all the angles of health, compassion, responsibility, the species, the planet, it is clear that the disgusting, brutaility of torting animals to eat them must stop, if man would ever truly evolve.
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
this is why you should at LEAST be a vegetarian: please please watch before you eat your next burger
youtube.com/watch?v=t54hRYciqVE
sunsetsbythesea 2 days ago
Humans have enzyms to digest both animal protein and sugar..
azrodrigues 2 days ago
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@azrodrigues "Humans have enzyms to digest both animal protein and sugar.." Actually, we do not. That is why you must cook flesh: we do not have the teeth or digestive systems to eat it. The trouble with cooking flesh is that the creatine burns, which causes powerful carcinogens to form on the meat that alter the very DNA of your body's cells. Any way you slice it, meat is bad news.
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
Human beings are not able to match the power of true Nature such as storms, hurricanes and so forth.
veganfemaleathlete 2 days ago
Leonardo da Vinci was a famous painter and important inventor. He was also a vegan long before the term was coined by Donald Watson back in the early part of the last century.
veganfemaleathlete 2 days ago
@veganfemaleathlete
"He was also a vegan long before"
No he was not, in fact it is not even sure he was vegetarian. Your lies do not work.
celt130 1 day ago
@celt130 "No he was not," Was too! ;)
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
@celt130 "in fact it is not even sure he was vegetarian" Perhaps you wish to provide some evidence? Waiting...
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
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"in fact it is not even sure he was vegetarian" Perhaps you wish to provide some evidence? Waiting..."
-To this difficulty we have to add another one: the scarce or no importance which biographers pay to the eating habits of the people they write about. So for example Colin Spencer complains in his book The Heretics Feast that among 60 biographies about Leonardo Da Vinci only two of his biographers mention that he was a vegetarian. - Professor Luis Vallejo Rodríguez, Spain3
OUPS
celt130 1 day ago
@celt130 "Your lies do not work" What lies have I told? Is it a lie animals are rape and tortured every day so that you can eat them? Is it a lie that you pay others to carry out that torture for you? Is it a lie that this is a cruel way of life for both those animals and you? Is it a lie that one can live a completely healthy life without ever killing or exploiting a single animal? What about those are lies?
See, I have the joyous and free position of having seen all of those with my own eyes!
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
AlbertaBeefy you are likely a beef farmer and making money is more important to you than is proper health. The Canadian Heart & Stroke Foundation has stated that 50% of Canadian women are at high risk of a heart attack or a stroke. That is for "omnivore" women. "Omnivore men have a 1 in 3 chance of the same health problem. That would be you man.
veganfemaleathlete 2 days ago
Mayim Bialik is on the Big Bang Theory show. In real life she has a Ph.D in the neurosciences from UCLA. She is a vegan and earned that Ph.D. while she was eating vegan food. Kaly Cuoco is also on the same show and she is also vegan. Check out her gorgeous photos.
veganfemaleathlete 2 days ago
@veganfemaleathlete Bialik is vegan simply for her own personal ethical reasons. She doesn't state any health reasons - as she's smart enough to know they're aren't any.
I don't believe Cuoco is a vegan in interviews she says things like ""I'm a good eater and like to make my own meals. I start my day with granola, fresh fruit, and skim milk ..." and we all know milk isn't vegan.
Besides even if these celebs ARE vegan, it doesn't make it healthier, does it?
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
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@AlbertaBeefy "She doesn't state any health reasons - as she's smart enough to know they're aren't any." Actually ending consumption of rotting flesh for a healthy diet of fruits and veggies reduces your risk of every major disease known, including heart disease, stroke, diabetes, and most types of cancers.
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
Once again, fish oil EPA/DHA IS VERY WELL ESTABLISHED by PEER REVIEWED science to reduce cardiovascular events, and provides benefits.
Dr. Darisuh Mozaffarian pf Harvard KNOWS what he is talking about and is a CREDIBLE, OBJECTIVE scientist.
Douglas Graham is NOT a scientist, NOR is he credible. He is a CRANK who is IGNORED by mainstream science for GOOD REASON- he's a FRAUD.
FRAUDS are KEPT IN CHECK BY PEER REVIEW.
Razwell 2 days ago
@Razwell Actually, if you look beyond the human cattle prod of prime time TV you may learn that fish is extremely unhealthy to eat. Some government reports say that the benefits of fish may outweight the risks, but none of them claim that there are not risks. Fish contain toxins, beyond just the saturated fat and LDL, that are very harmful to humans. Check it: watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
@FathomlessJoy
"watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE"
A video without scientific references and cartoons like this one are not considered as scientific evidence, even if you try as hard as you do. You fail.
"the China Study"
Google "rawfoodsos, The China study"
These are based on scientific articles to prove that some statements are wrong in the China study.
celt130 1 day ago
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@celt130 "Google "rawfoodso...These are based on scientific articles to prove that some statements are wrong in the China study." LOL You cite a web blog by a 23-year-old catholic high school English teacher as some sort of evidence that counters in any small what the decades of peer-reviewed research by Dr. T. Colin Campbell?
Truly laughable, buddy!
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
@celt130 "You fail." Well I disagree. While I fail to effectively explain to animal rapists a better way of life, I consider each day that I do not rape animals myself a success. Perfect? Nope! Problem-free? No way! But successful at having a bit of compassion to end the suffering of an animal and some respect for mind, body, and spirit not to ingest or participate in the sickness? Yes.
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
@Razwell "FRAUDS are KEPT IN CHECK BY PEER REVIEW." Yep, and that's what makes the China Study so HUGE. It's the most comprehensive nutritional study humans have ever conducted; it was extensively peer reviewed. It reveals startling evidence that meat, dairy, eggs are extremely unhealhty. Check out some of the study findings presented by the lead research scientist, Dr T. Colin Campbell, an award winning scientist at Cornell University with over 300 peer reviewed papers here: watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
Check out Karina Smirnoff's photos. She is a professional dancer who won the DWTS contest this year with the military vet who was hurt by a bomb blast. She is gorgeous and very sexy. She also happens to be vegan as is Kristen Bell. Both women are beautiful without any animal products at all. They will not even wear any fur products. Same for Amanda Beard and many more women.
veganfemaleathlete 2 days ago
@veganfemaleathlete You realize Amanda Beard is a Paleo athlete, right?
appforhealth(dot)com/2011/06/paleo-athletes-diet/
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
@veganfemaleathlete And Karina Smirnoff isn't vegan either:
"On her recent European vocation, she asked restaurants to serve salmon or chicken over a bed of the leafy green instead of carbs like pasta or rice. "
"...eats egg whites, fish, and salad. She has a tablespoon of olive oil on an empty stomach to help with digestion."
That's hardly vegan...
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
@veganfemaleathlete Kristen Bell is also not a vegan. She was, but gave it up in high school. She eats cheese and other animal products, sorry.
Perhaps you vegans should do some research before making untrue claims...
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
I think it's important to realize much of the information contained in this video is completely unscientific and without basis in reality, let-alone science.
As for the arguments below on fish - yes, there are levels of mercury in much of the US's supply of fish, however it's mostly low and science shows that eating moderate amounts of fish, even with low-levels of mercury content, provides health-benefits that more than offset the small risk that MAY come from of very low-levels of mercury.
CanadaHC 2 days ago
@CanadaHC "I think it's important to realize much of the information contained in this video is completely unscientific and without basis in reality, let-alone science." Actually these are several opinions you offered here, but absolutely no facts at all. Care to provide some detail behind your opinions?
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
@CanadaHC "As for the arguments below on fish - yes, there are levels of mercury in much of the US's supply of fish" The toxicity levels of fish are growing and the production methods are getting more disasterous all the time. In addition, when cooked it has carcinogens that alter your DNA. I know some of us are taken in by the concept of "fish is health food" but it's laughable when we consider the facts. Here are some facts about fish and the unhealthiness of eating it: watch?v=zkoUw9gkZfE
FathomlessJoy 1 day ago
Stop picking and choosing what you reply to, Fathlomless FUCK, and ADDRESS Dr. Mark Suarez's points below!
Razwell 2 days ago
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@Razwell What point was that, sir?
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
@Razwell Which points did you want me to address? He is ranting like a madman, totally belligerent, I cannot make out a point at all. Can you help me, please?
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
I am on FIRM scientific ground, FathomlessFuck, with Dr. Darisuh Mozaffarian's OBJECTIVE, GENUINELY SCIENTIFIC information. Too little is known to nutritional science, yet, for YOUR certitude, as well as the vegan gurus certitude . GENUINE SCIENCE does NOT permit that. Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian ADMITS that there is A LOT of UNANSWERED SCIENCE here.
Educate yourself from REPUTABLE sources. You have A LOT of learning to do.
DrMarkSuarezPhD 2 days ago
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Razwell 2 days ago
@DrMarkSuarezPhD "I am on FIRM scientific ground, FathomlessFuck" Which is why you provide no evidence at all, constantly have you use caps lock, call names and spew hate, while providing no rational insight at all? Is that indicative of science in your world?
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
WHAT? You are a mental-case.
Seriously, get some professional help, you're obviously mentally-ill or brain-damaged. Your own comments prove it.
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
@AlbertaBeefy I am waiting for any objective information you have, Beefy! Or perhaps you think you get to roll up all redneck and scream, "This is all fuckin bullshit man" and everyone else just magically believes you?
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
@AlbertaBeefy "WHAT? You are a mental-case." Actually, I am not the one who eats dead rotting bodies, buddy ;)
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
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... and 11566656 was about dairy intake, calcium, and prostate cancer. Nothing to do with meat/fish.
Also, it's an observational study which as you well know, proves nothing.
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago 2
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again, PMH0001891 is about ovarian cancer and says nothing, anywhere about meat/fish.
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago 3
@AlbertaBeefy Again, perhaps I was not clear, in that conversation I was having with someone else that you jumped into. DrSueIsDead asked for sources showing that meat and fish are toxic. I replied saying that I would show him sources of evidence of how meat, fish, dairy and eggs are toxic and unhealthy to humans. Then I pasted those articles that you perhaps you should read really closely. Namaste.
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
It also states "Based on the current evidence, the health risks for adults of not consuming fish outweigh potential risks from mercury or other contaminants. "
How's that bad? How does this article support you?
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
@AlbertaBeefy "How's that bad? How does this article support you?" Actually, as pointed out previously, you have read this article selectively, Beefy, which you are prone to do.
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago
@FathomlessJoy "Actually, as pointed out previously, you have read this article selectively, Beefy, which you are prone to do."
Respectfully, I quoted all relevant points. You then pointed out there were questions regarding mercury, which I agree there are, but the article concludes:
"Based on the current evidence, the health risks for adults of NOT consuming fish outweigh potential risks from mercury or other contaminants. "
... so WHO here is reading selectively?
You're delusional.
AlbertaBeefy 2 days ago
@AlbertaBeefy "WHO here is reading selectively?" As I said, 1st of all you ignore that in your own selectively pasted quote it notes that 1) there are toxins in fish, which was the request that the DrJaurez request, and 2) that there is in fact a risk from eating fish, again provided at request.
Next, here's a quote you didn't select:
"concerns regarding potential harm from exposure to mercury [2–6], a heavy metal present in fish, have tempered the perception of fish as a healthy food."
FathomlessJoy 2 days ago