They are acting like the nazis that they so often demoniz thats exactly how jews and others were treated by nazis during the second world war. why is the US continuing to support Isreal?
Long live Israel!!70 years of KICKING ARAB ASS! Fascinating to watch from afar as the arabs get defeated and humiliated every time. And they keep coming back for more asswhippings????!! Are they retarded or like getting their asses handed to them??? Its got to be one or the other.
@Trashfished and who will they use those nukes on? all of their enemies are too close to use nukes. And if they do, the whole world will gang up on them.
Hatred of Israel is endemic in palestinians. They are taught as children that killing Jews is the way to heaven. When the baby was murdered, palis celebrated and gave candy to their kids.
Pavlov, anyone?
The situation cannot change. Israel has taken all that it can. A response of unprecedented brutality must follow--not to wipe out palestinians, but to eliminate the threat that they pose.
idf and mossad are terrorist. they were terrorists officaly in the biggening. 1920-30 etc. all must be jailed for war crimes and terrorist acts against innocent palestinian arabs (muslims, jews, christians etc)...Israelits=former slaves of egypts=mossad, IDF=terrorits=facts!! :)
it is my 5th language? why? english is not so important any more. Mandarin is the future. I rather learn that. I hope in the future there will be war with Israel! :) Deutsch land never to forget never to forgive
@citizenintime dead terrorist make me smile also i nearly piss myself laghing when i hear that an idf soldier (bigest terrorist in the world) is killed
@LAITH316 What a clever retort! I'm sure your still cleaning your panties following your reaction to the news that a 3 month old baby was murdered by palestinian animals in the west bank.
Israel must respond with unprecedented brutality to eliminate the threat from the palestinian animals.
@citizenintime i think who ever did that horrid unforgivible crime should be hung drawn and quarterd but the fact is why punish people that had nothing to do with it and also when you shed a tear for those innocent children will you be shedding a tear for the innocent palastinian and gazan children who where also brutilly murderd by the idf ?
Rabbi Martin David Kahane also known as a famous Jewish terrorist stated that, "democracy and Judaism are not the same thing." Kahane also believed that a Jewish democracy with non-Jewish citizens was self-contradictory because the non-Jewish citizens might someday become a numerical majority and vote to make the state non-Jewish.
Arabs have risen from a weakend empire, so why did they loose on 1967? and 1973? that was 40 years they had independence.
The Jews have risen from a much worst event were third of their nation were murdered and they all were hunted. I'm sure that makes you much weaker than rising from a weakend empire.
No, that was not any promised independece. The balfour declaration was the promised independence and also the single reason, why the arabs agreed to a two-state solution. The sykes-picot agreement on the other hand proved that the brits had no intention to give the arabs independence. This was the only reason, why arabs agreed to a two-state solution, the agreement was not made.
Arabs has agreed to the two states solution only the last 15 years. they didnt agree to thatever before. surely not because of Balfour declaration. Arabs have never recognised or excepted Israel freely, they do it only cause the realize they got no other choise since they cannot defeat it.
And u know what? what was legal or illegal is not the question cause we can argue about it for years. what matters now is the present. Arabs can't even make peace among themselves (have a look: Hamas and PA) so offcourse they wouldn't be able to make peace with Israel. They r too busy blaming Israel and cry for everything than build a stable state and create better lives for their citizens.
let them study from the Jews how you build a prosper country from much worst conditions.
So if 1933 is past for you, why do jews still demand money from germany?
Or the sub-marines that they requested.
I also would say, let them study from the zionist how to build white phosphor and use it in a crowded area, how to stop medical flow, how to ruin economically a land, how to violate human rights law and geneva conventions.
Wait, they do not except or recognise israel, because they can't defeat it? What kind of a logic is that?
Of course they won't recognise israel nor except it, because the history shows that the zionists immigrated illegaly, because the brits betrayed the arabs over their land.
So, on one hand you say the arabs agreed to the two state solution right after Balfour declaration (1917) (i qute you: "... the single reason why the arabs agreed to two satets solution") on the other hand you say they never did and never will (i quote you: "ofcourse they won't recognise or except it" -how come they agreed to it but not except it???) i find it really hard to follow you.
i said they did recognise Israel only after they realise Israel is a fact they cant disapear.
When someone kills third of your ppl (if you American that mean 100 million ppl, for example) you will demand more than money from him, be sure of that. it's the Jews compesion they dont demand to kill 25 milliom german in return.
but muslims (and arabs particulary) dont need to study this from the Jews. they are experts in this. look at Egypt and Sudan where they kill Christians. India where they kill Induhists. Pakistan and Iraq where they kill other muslims and arabs.
the irony about this, is with all the accusations, Israel is saving thousands of Palestinians ppl every year by giving them high modern medical care and aid and let them work and earn money inside Israel when their regin only give them mosks and religous dicatatorship.
The high modern medical care and aid HAS TO BE GUARANTEED, because israel is occupying gaza, if they won't guarantee it, then they violate against the fourth geneva convention, and before the incident with the flotilla, this was the case. Look up the ICRC report BEFORE the incident. The irony is, that israel is also occupying more land, abusing a former ottoman law. Or breaking up the weapon truce.
1. Israel has left Gaza 5 years ago so it doesn't rule there. so Israel doesnt need to help any palestinian. including ones from the west bank cause they have their own government. it's helping the Palestinians freely since it feels sorrow for the inecent ppl there who has to suffer under Hamas law.
2. What about turks occupation of kurdish areas? what about the daily massacre of kurds in east Kurdistan (north Iraq).
And why do they still occupy it trough controlling their air and sea space? This is also a criteria, which counts to an occupation.
2. Which occupied areas? Read the treaty of lausanne, every present single area belongs to turkey, there was no such thing as kurdistan, and speaking of kurds, what about mossad supporting the pjak/PKK?
What about the massacres and terrors, caused trough PKK/PJAK with the support and education from the zionists? Trying to achieve a greater israel?
Israel is controlling Gaza sea space because the Palestinians have shot 10,000 missles per years at israeli civiliences right after Israel has left Gaza. that was their thanks for giving them freedom. nice ppl. so now Israel doesnt allow metal inside for thhey will not build more missles.
2. treaty of this, treaty of that. all these treaties are made by the strong nations to control the weak ones. so turkey made the laussane treaty to rule the helpless kurds.
So? It still does not affect the fact, that israel is occupying gaza.
#2, Turkey was the weaker land, had to defend itself against 6 countries, and i'm not counting in the ethnicitys, that started riots and weakened turkey from the inner side.
3# Wrong, Chief of the turkish secret agency, Senkal Atasagun said that turkey worked together with the U.S.A, not with israel.
4. Muslims? Or extremists? Would you stop prejuidicing here?
1. when you occupy a place to defend yourself it's legal and justified.
2. the buttom line, the kurdish are the biggest ethnical minority in the world without a state of his own, depressed by Turkey. also you have killed many Kurds. i wouldnt say anything unless you had talked about Israel. this is purely being hypocrate, since turkey is doing it as well, but point the finger at Israel. someone who do a crime, cannot critisize others for doing the same.
1. I'm not talking about wether it is legal or not, i'm talking about the fourth geneva convention, that israel used to violate several times before this incident, and still does sometimes. Look up what it says, then look up the medical reports from the ICRC.
2. Are you blind? The kurds got their own party in turkey now, and yet most of them still defend the PKK, still the majority runs with an abdullah öcalan poster in their hands. They got more freedom than a migrant in europe.
1. be more specific on what Geneva laws has Israel broken and i'll be able to responde. dont know ICRC reports. again be specific.
2. that's excectly the problem Israel has with the arabs citizens. they support and help the Palestinian terrorists shooting at Israeli cities and blowing ppl up. yet Israel give them full rights. as i said, Turkey is the same as Israel, just Israel isnt hypocrate and never critisize others while it acting like them.
1. The fourth geneva convention. Link: tinyurl(.)com/3bwgby, "The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance."
2. Never compare Turkey with your Zionist-Land."Israeli policies in the West Bank harshly discriminate against Palestinian residents, depriving them of basic necessities while providing lavish amenities for Jewish settlements" want more?
Source is the U.N. Human rights and now from the Den Hague, "Mr Hague said the incident underlined the need for Israel to respect UN resolution 1860, which insisted on unfettered access for aid and commercial goods to Gaza." As you see, Israel violates even against this UN resolution.
1. oh give me a break, would you. that's your source? organization ruled by muslim countries and radical lefts who continiously gather hands to destroy Israel. how come I never heard one resolution condemning horouble countries like Sudan and Somalia? how is this even possible that anti-human right states like Iran and China are members in it? This council is a walking joke and it's resolutions just show how the world is about power and not justice.
So, since this is a joke in your subjective mind, it gives israel the freedom to violate against a few laws? Treat the palestinians like shit?
I talked with a few others about this and every time they said that this and that is a joke, almost every organization is a joke that criticize israels foreign policy.
How come all these organisaztions never criticized China for depressing the Tibetian? had no resolution against Sudan who murdered 2 million ppl in one horrible war? how come millions are tortured and laws are violated in arabs and muslim world but noone in this council speak? when u will be able to answer this, u will have a saying. the thing is that ppl like you try to make a some laws for Israel and diffrent ones to others. hypocrates as i said.
Not hypocrate, hypocrate is when you're trying to justify the crimes done by israel with given examples, like you did. So basically you're saying that israel is on the same level as china for depressing tibetian, like sudan who murdered 2 million people? I'm ok with that.
Actually the Human Rights Watch published a report about the situation there, and blamed the sudanese government and the International Criminal Court is investigating in this case.
no Israel is not like them. but i dont want to argue with about it cause it's not the point. and you keep missing the point everytime either on perpose or cause it's too complicated for you. so GET THE POINT. if you are like it, you cannot criticize others. that's it. Turkey is rulling the kurdish and depress them so you cannot talk about Israel, even if Israel is the worst country on the planet.
The Turks did not stole any land from the kurds, the treaty of lausanne proves this, as i said before, the turks gave the kurds more rights. They had their own party which openly claimed to release the mass murder öcalan, israel would bomb gaza if they would require something similiar.
again we repeat on the same dicussion. what you say is crap mister. you keep mentioning treaties which was created around 100 years ago and because they fit your ideology you decide that these treaties are the truth. if that's so, why you dont pay the armenians compensations for killing 1.5 million of them at this time? the all world acknoledge and say that you murdered them but that doesnt fit you so you denide.
Oh yeah? What about the armenians killing a whole town in turkey? What about izmir?
Treaties are of course important, how can you say that those treaties are not important?
Turkey was MADE on these treaties, without them zionists like you could claim that the land belonged to the kurds or that atatürk promised this and that. Look up the treaties and look up what happened and you'll see that what i said is not crap, mister.
again you miss the point. the problem is not the treaties. the problem that you choose what treaties to except. you do it all the times. your country use violence but you criticize Israel for the same thing, you rule upon other nation but you talk about Israel's occupation, you condemn Kurdish terror but justifies the Palestinians one, you break laws but cry for Israelis doing the same, you point at one treaty but ignore anothers. man, that is, by defention, Hypocracy.
Kurdish terror = PKK, not the kurd citizen. Turks rule on their own land. Palestinian ones? I tought you're only against the hamas?
Which treatys did i ignore? I did not ignored anyone, the treaty of sevres was not valid, because the turks fought against it and the attackers agreed with the turks to do another treaty, called the treaty of lausanne.
Turkey does not owe anyone a land, and i advice you to read it before you type about turkey with me again.
@Speedsky human right watch. oh thank you very much.
but WHERE IS THE UN??????????????? after 2 million ppl murdered they cant even have one resolution about them. They had 100 resolution already about Israel and the number of Palestinians who died isnt even 10,000. you see- 10,000 against 2 million, and they choose to condemn Israel. that is hypocracy, mister, that is. not to mention the 50,000 ppl murdered in kurdistan, millions who died in china, russia, iraq.
what about other desicions of the world saying you occupy illegaly north cyprus and made illegal war there? ha, that one you dont like so you say it's bullshit. what about the peace treaties done between Israel and Egypt but we keep getting missles from their area to Israeli cities? f*ck peace with them.
require what similiar? arabs parties in Israel support terrorist groups like Hamas publicly and demand to release all their mass murderers. but you keep saying this crap.
We can discuss the mather somewhere else, but just for your information. Greeks tried to kill the turks on cyprus, in the treaty of lausanne, they agreed to respect eachother and treat each other well.
Since this was not fulfilled turkey had the right to invade cyprus. Zionists on the other hand just immigrated illegally into palestine and captured it, i showed you the treatys and declarations.
no. Jews have returned to the land the arab muslims illegaly occupied from them. The UN resolution acknoledge Israel by a declaration (those that you like so much) so it's legal. north cyprus is unrecognized by the world, and turkish occupation there is illegal by UN decision. so your actions are I-L-L-E-G-A-L. as i said, you agree to any resolution and treaty fits you, and kick any other that you dont like.
I want a source for their returning, since i found only one not reliable source and other sources are only in religious books. The UN had the idea for a two-state-solution, not telling the jews that they can have the land.
Besides that the jews immigrated illegaly there, trying to be the majority, along with the help of the jewish terroroganisations, zionists achieved their illegal goal, palestine for themselves.
I would also advice you to read up the history of north cyprus, greeks supporting cyprus greeks to annex the land to greece. I bet you wouldn't open your mouth if this would've happened.
Kurdistan is an area spreading from east Turkey, north iraq, northern west iran and some of syria. these ppl wish to have their freedom, they dont want to be turks but you keep depressng them and occupy their land doing a deal with the arabs and the persians around.
just because ppl die in china gives you the right to murder kurds?
Occupy WHICH land? Can you show me any official treaty or something similiar, that shows that the land belonged to the kurds?
Do it, show it to me.
The treaty of sevres is invalid, because it never was forced trough and at this point the Turkish War of Independence started, and the only valid and legimitate treaty here is the treaty of lausanne.
There was and will be no kurdistan, it's a dream just like greater israel.
I'm not so sure about it. kurds are having babies 3 times more than Turks. there rate in population reaches 20%. today there are 35 million Kurds at this area and around 60 million Turks, who knows what wil happened in 20 years.
And i advice you to visit the Human Rights Watch China site, you'll find many points which the organization criticize. Open your zionistic eyes and do a little bit of research before calling someone a hypocrate.
3. i dont know what did this chief say, and since Israel doesn't want to make more enemies in this place it's likely that he was asked by Israel not to mention it's involvement. Israel has helped Turkey like no other country and just a quick look in wikipedia will show you this.
4. maybe extremists, but since out of 57 muslim countries, around 50 are involve with somekind of bloody conflict, i say that's not just extermists.
Likely, possible etc. Either you come with sources which back your arguments up or don't mention it.
The world will implode likely in 2012... They did not helped to get abdullah öcalan as you falsely claimed.
And now you're trying to drive off-topic again?
4. Maybe? So you're saying that muslims are terrorists? Then i can say that maybe all jews are fu**ing zionists, no? Tell me in what kind of conflict are those 50 countries, with sources not from your own brain.
@Speedsky by the way, that's something i happened to find in many arb and muslim countries. these countries has no democracy, no civil rights, they fight and kill millions, but they also talk about Israel at the UN. Unblievably Hypocrates. the all UN civil rights council composed by states like Sudan, Saudi arabia etc. whatr a joke.
3. sources are very hard to find when it comes to middle east because all is done under the table. like the arabs who wish to bomb Iran but play as it's friends.
it's all about claims. you think that you know something because that's what you wish to believe. truth is in the eyes of the beholder. you dont care if Israel is right or not, doing legal or illegal things. your basic believe is that this land belongs to muslims by GOD's will, and therefore no matter what you will be shown, will not change your mind, cause from the first place, Israelis shouldnt be there...
Israelis shouldn't be there, that's correct, god's will? I said im an agnostic so i don't care much. What i do know is, that the zionists organized an ILLEGAL immigration, read it up yourself.
and here we see the buttom line bursting out of your "human right speach". even if israel were a kidney state you wouldnt care cause you object it's existence. so all the dicussion we had makes to difference from the first place. for that let me tell you: arabs are trying to do it for a long time, they are much more experienced than you at this matter. it didnt work for them before, it wouldnt work ever. as u see, non of their actions (wars, terror, flotillas, condemnations) works,
Tell me, why do i get the feeling that all the jews do support zionism?
Is it accepted amongst your enviroment? I see in zionism another variant of fascism, this is of course off-topic and you do not have to provide me any sources.
But i did not believed in any other arguments you brought up, since the lack of sources.
What about the occupation of north Cyprus and kicking out the greek citizens of this place? where is your sence of justice now?
3. muslims are killing around the world more ppl (including other muslims) than any other nation on earth. it happens in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Yemen, Sudan, Lebanon, China, Russia, Serbia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philipines, and all over Africa. even your country soldiers are killing many inecent afghans in this stupid war.
Sence of justice? Do you know, why the turks landed there? I don't think so, otherwise there would be a genocide.
And why are you talking off-topic? I'm here to discuss the foreign policy of israel.
3. MORE PPL? U.S.A invaded a whole country, collateral damages are above 1 million, i'm an agnostic, but this argument is bullsh*t. My countryman do MORE positive things then damage, because they're not inhuman like the IDF.
@Speedsky but you see, that's not the point. the point is that whatever you say about Israel your own country do the same. you say Israel blockade Gaza? you blockade kurdistan. no such thing kurdistan? no such thing as Palestine. kurds do terror? so does Palestinians. only because it's your country you say it's legal and because it's Israel you say it's illegal.
3. Israel helped Turkey against PKK more than any other state. you captured their leader thanks to Israel.
lets not plat games. the turkish citizens who came upon the flotila were violent provocators who attacked these soldiers who only came to nevigate them to a different location. you and me and all turkey know that it wasnt about peace. they came to kill. which is a little bit cheeky in my eyes, since i never heard Israel sending aid to Kurdistan and trying or brake the blockade from the PKK.
Provocate attackers were the IDF, shooting before landing, look at various videos and you'll see it. Look at those before the boarding. Speaking of came to kill, there was a "list" with details of a few person, this list looked like a hitlist, so tell me which party came in peace? The IDF? Never. And what about the 19-year old US-Citizen Faruk? He got shot from 45 centimetres into the back of his head, does this sound like self defence? Or what about the stolen credit cards?
@Speedsky all the turkish army based on Israel developments. not to mention the huge earth quake in Turkey on 99 when Israel sent you hundreds of ppl to aid.
4. USA fights only Afghanistan and Iraq. muslims fight in 80% of the world around.
5. IDF didnt shot first. lets not argue at it cause neither of us can prove it. you got proves i got as well.
the 19 years old tried to stab a soldier and was shot by another one from behind.
credit cards done by bad soldiers. they were put in jail.
Speaking of supplies, don't hide the fact that turkey is also providing your country supplies, 50 million of litres since 2004, every year. So please, and believe me, turkey will develop their own military equipment, they are already developing a drone, all on their own.
not so sure. i used to admire Turkey once for being the only muslim modern state. but the way it's going these days, i find it hard to belive that it wouldnt be a religous dictatorship at the future. (like famous politician said lately : "in twenty years turkey will be Iran and Iran will be Turkey"). for Israel it makes a little difference cause Turkey is a small player in international playground, but if Turkey will change, it would develop only downwords, to the era of ignorance.
That's your own opinion, i don't want to discuss it, since every free mind on earth got his subjective opinion about turkey, stick to the foreign policys of israel, you did not used ANY sources to back your arguments up. So i will not believe anything you said, i on the other hand told you to look this and that up, seems like you didn't do it either.
@Speedsky prepering with knives, stones, poles and other cold weapons to beat the soldiers. you know, the biggest proof for my point is that one of your newspapers have shown photo of Israeli soldiers wounded and bleeding after they were attacked. if these comandos had wanted to kill the passengers, non of the ppl on boat would stay alive and non of the soldiers would be injured. these soldiers have defeated the best arab terror organizations at the area, surely no ametur could hart them.
No amateur? Well it looked like they were a bunch of rookies, and you call knifes in the galley weapons?
They shooted before landing, which leaded to an escalation of the tense situation, they had it comming, the crew had all the right to defend their ship from the zionist pirates. They had their hitlist, they never came in peace they tried to eliminate or atleast capture the people on the list. The crew wasn't even inhuman as the IDF, they treated 2 soldiers downstairs.
believe me one thing. if the soldiers had wanted to kill these ppl, non of them would be alive. tell me, if they shot first, why didnt they just blow the ship up? why landind on the ship and not putting a sniper that kills each one and than land? this arogancy of you when you say these comandos are rookies are a common atitude of all the arabs towards Israel. that's why they loose everytime.
Why do we discuss this without any solide source? I said i do not want to discuss your subjective opinion with you. I told you the facts, there was a hitlist which indicates that the IDF never came in peace.
You did not disprove any argument of mine, neither the one with the occupation, nor the illegal immigration.
Or the low medical support. Nor can you bring a logic argument, which claims that the shot at the back of the head from 45 centimetres was in self defence, this was an execution. The IDF was shooting at the ship, before entering, spreading fake videos and claims.
7. there was no illegal immigration. Jews have returned to the land the muslims have stolen from them before. when someone take your house by force and after a while you get stronger and take it back, u dont call yourself illegal. you did the right thing.
occupation of Palestinians is excectly like the one in Kurdistan.
8. Israel doesnt help the PKK as it helps the turkish army. though i think it should help the kurds after turkey acts of war against Israel and Erdugan behaviour.
But Muslims did not invaded any country, destroyed it trough collateral damage, made the prices go up, or caused a civil war, just look at iraq, all these things fit to the land, which was invaded by the americans without any reason.
5# Of course there is prove, as i said look at the videos that show the IDF before they enter the ship, the crew still had the opportunity to broadcast live from the ship, before the IDF cut trough any connection, look at those videos.
5. Amercians invaded Iraq to save it's ppl from Sadam Husein,
6. the videos i know and many others show that the IDF didnt shoot at first. only after the "peace activists" attacked the soldiers with cold weapons and stole the gun from one of them and start shooting, the soldiers responded.
you say you want a non-zionist prove. however, i want you to give one non- anti zionist prove that the soldiers killed him for no reason.
5. Yeah, maybe from the kurdish minority, open your eyes, most of the arabs actually liked him.
And since he's gone, iraq is more in a crisis then ever. Prices got higher then ever etc.
6. You did not looked up any videos, where the crew still had the possibility to broadcast right? Almost every debatte partner did this, some kind of jewish ignorance? Look it up, they shoot before they enter the ship, this gave the crew all the rights in the world to defend themselves.
4. no. i respect many muslims. but the muslim world, as a general. should make a discussion among itself about how come there is so many killings and depression all over. how come Turkey is the only democratic state, and even there the army needs to guard and interfer many times to prevent changing it.
6. That is absolutely bullshit. i've seen all the videos (both the Israeli and the international ones). in non of them the soldiers shoot first. what you do see is the ppl on the boat
4. Again your subjective opinion, what do you want me to discuss about your opinion? Come up with sources, i'm not here to discuss with you, i'm here to expose your zionist propaganda you're spreading around here.
6. Let me show it to you, /watch?v=p5AbL8gOre8 for example this, look at 3:36, you can see blood and a ship trying to dock on the flotilla. This happened before the boarding of the zionist soldiers, as you can see the helicopter is still in air at 4:38
you see how your "prooves" are pointless? what do you see? what? you see army boats and than blood in the ship. it could be edited by the editor, it could be two parts from different cameras that were brought together. beside, there was more than one helicopter that put the soldiers down there, so it's obviously not before the soldiers landed but a lot later. are these your prooves? come on is that a joke? if that so, i got many films to show you at once.
Sorry for the typo, Then give me prove for your claim, i'm waiting. But if you would think logical, almost every single videocamera had been confiscated, they were not able to broadcast live. You do the math and tell me if this is possible after the IDF lands on the ship.
Editing? I saw a video, where one of the "terrorists" walked trough an metal obstacle, this video was released by the IDF. So much for editing, i will provide the video if you want to.
So either way, you're just making things up in your mind without providing source, which is not a debatte, or you've to provide me with sources for every single claim you did, i did not see any treaty, declaration, human rights source, geneva convention etc.
And since Israel violated the fourth geneva convention with their blockade, the very same blockade was illegal, which makes the upholding of the same blockade ALSO illegal, thus the attack on the ship and crew was illegal.
it is also not legal to steal something and then sell it as if it would be legal.
I'm sure you (and all the other "anti zionists") dont know what zionism means and you are poisoned by all the non- odjective sources that you read to hate Israel. you welcome to tell me what zionism is and we'll see where you stand.
i can provide you many sources, but that would take a lot of time to make a research which i hardly have.
you didnt provide me any sources other than substential evidences depends on a person's prespective and not total evidences.
As far as i know, zionism is a political ideologie, just like nazism was. They killed and displaced many arabs from their own homeland and claimed it to themselves.
I provided to every argument sources, if not, tell me which one is without a source and i will immediately deliver it. Except for the 19 year old faruks death, you can only conceive that if you're capable of logical thinking.
Zionism, for your information, by defenition, is the Jewish ppl desire to come back to their land of Israel (=Zion), who was taken by force from them long time ago' and to rule upon themselves in this land, and not to let muslims and christians rule them like they did brutally for thousands of years.
Israel has a channel in arabic, arabs in Israel has full rights but no duties, you have murdered more kurdish in last years than all the Palestinians together Israel killed ever.
Whatever you say about Israel is right for Turkey cause Israel and Turkey are doing excectly the same actions regarding to their conflict. and that claim you cannot contradict. anything you mentioned about Israel is done by Turkey as well. you will not find one difference. therefore, if you say it's legal than it's right for Israel as well. if it's not, you cannot critisize Israel while you are the same.
I do not think that turkey stole their own homeland, the treaty of lausanne proves this. Turkey does not bomb a whole town because the PKK attacked a few buildings and areas, turkey does not treat kurds like shit, more give them more rights, like their own tv channel in kurdish, their own party etc. As i said, do not compare turkey with your zionist homeland, you're insulting me.
And turkey does not violate against the fourth geneva convention.
Arabs have 3 politcal parties in Israel, Arabs are alowed to teach their culture and religous in schools. Arabic is a second formal language in Israel. not like tureky who depressed the kurdish for years not allowing them to have self indentity, and just lately you changed it cause you want to flatter the european union to except you. I know arabic better than you. so you see, Israel is 10 times better than Turkey. your words are the propaganda here.
Oh really? What about the little kids threwing stones at a palestinian women with a baby on her arms(/watch?v=adr7lXt3ujo) or stealing land? (/watch?v=rcPO9j4Nqj8).
I could go on and bring about 100 more of these videos if you want me to. "Israel is 10 times better than Turkey" What are you? A troll? I said stop comparing countries, or do you want me to compare israels foreign policy with a few others and call israel a sh'thole? This only happens in kindergarten.
oh come on man... what? now you show me kids who throw stones? what's next? babies who saying bad words to each other? not to mention the all stones throwing the Palestinians invented when they threw tones of stones at Israelis the last conflicts. beside, as i said, me and you both can show 1000 videos to each other. an unobjective director can create any film he wishes that back his claim. that's not proof. you gotta be kidding me...
Most of the turks do not want to join the EU. And i'm not suprised that arabs speak arabic in israel, because it belonged to the arabs. Israel is 10 times better than turkey must be a joke.
My words are not propaganda, i provided and will provide source to any argument that you doubt, i do not pull things out of my arse like you do, i state facts here, i'm waiting for your sources, i did not seen even a single one.
you see, the first moments in the flotilla show excectly the time before army landing, where are the shooting? the only thing you see is the passengers throwing shit on the soldiers at 2:14 on 2:27 u see how the soldiers shoot PAINT BALLS!!! on the passengers (if it was real bullets all this passengers would have been dead and fall to the water since they were on the edge, and you see them later moving)
But then i would be on the same level as you, as you can see they shot first, it doesn't matter if it was paintball or live ammunition, because exactly THIS jewish-rambo behaviour escalated the situation, and exactly THIS gives the crew the right to defend themselves since they were attacked first.
And i didn't see any passenger throwing stuff from 2:14 - 2:27, after that yes, but you can count it as a self defense.
I'm still missing source for your claim, that israel helped the turks to get abdullah öcalan, and i want an honest opinion about the 19 year old, who got shot from 45 centimetres into the back of the head.
Into the back of the head, this means he was lying on his stomach and 45 centimetres is about as long as a ruler, this surely was not any act of self defense, this was an execution.
fourth Geneva convension- i told you Israel doesnt break any law.
the 19 years old- you dont get it? there are no prooves for this since noone took a photo of the incident. you got no proof either and you keep throwing ecusations to the air as if you are court of law. the only thing you got is a balistic exam, created by someone i dont even know.
102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
San Remo Manual.
Forbidding cement to rebuild their houses, enying it other objects essential for its survival.
Israel is not starving the Gazans and doing no excessive blockade. so it's legal.
they can have any food exist, they got homes but no materials for building weapon. though they are smuggling this as well and as we speak they keep shooting missles at Israel without response, and if they go on dont you think that Israel will be a sucker. i promiss you that.
I recognize a gap here that you and other zionists like to abuse. The san remo manual says in his article 102 if the blockade only exists for the punishment it is illegal. It is obvious that the blockade does more damage to the gazan civilization then the hamas. I do not agree that the blockade is legal.
But israel still violates against the fourth geneva convention, against several articles, for example article 27.
Turn it around as you want, israel still violates against rules.
i'll thank you to tell me what is article 27 in brief for i'll be able to relate to this.
wrong. Israel dont damage the population since it gives the Palestinians health care (irony- they shoot at you, you save their lives) in thousands every year, allow them to work and earn bread inside Israel (again irony- they do terror and ruin your economy, you use your economy to finance them), and compensate many times inecents who died excidently during the war.
Oh yeah, look up the ICRC report for the healthcare, before the incident it reached a all-time low, after the incident it grew up a bit and yet there are only 100 prodcuts allowed. This is a violation against the 27th article of the fourth geneva convention. Work? They are getting treated like animals, this is not respectful, the article 27 demands it.
tell me what the ICRC is saying and i can relate to it.
so you search youtube like a robot, find any negetive thing that happens and show it to me. like there is any country around which is perfect. you are so consumed by your hate that you cant make the difference between what's minor and what's big. ok, these ppl pass through a border check (like you dont pass through it when you go to other country), so it's crowded. it's crowded in airports as well many times.
I won't do the work for you, you do it. Or just look up pages, where they report unhuman treats against gazan civilians, that's enough for the violation of the article 27.
but Israel is spending a lot of money to improvethese conditions. considering the fact that any one of these ppl could be a terrorist and iIsraelis were killed by ones like those who passed through border check, it's not an easy job to make it more free.
you tell me where did you get the news about fire breaking and i'll tell you what is your problem since the day we speak. by the way, i remember this truce, it happened because israel transfered it's citizens from gaza.
houses are ruined during wars. it happens all over the world. they are allowed to build their himes and they are doing it as we speak. not my problem that they have a regim that takes all their materials for it's blood reasons.
you want a proof? mind the world news a little bit a you shell see. just yesterday a document leaked from the americans and published in wikileaks said that the israelis and palestinians talk about exchanging areas in peace process. it's all over the news.
it did it, because the palestinians demanded it as a condition of making peace. but in return they gave violence. and after that you ask us to stop build in their territories. why would we? you give them gesture they give you missles.
offcourse i agreee. i told you that the first time. i never lie cause i got nothing to hide. israel is taking land necessary for it's security, and suggest the palestinians alternative land in return in any peace negosiation. it is well recignised by israelis (and today more and more by the all world as well) that arab muslims are very violent and untrustable countries and Israel must take precautions in case they decide to attack it after the peace will be signed.
oh i remeber that truce pretty well, there wasn't even one day of quite from their side, they were keep shooting once in a while and throwing missles, just Israel didnt respond. arabs truce. like there is now. go find how many missles they shot at Israel the last year, all this time a "truce" is agreed, by a treay (those you like so much). as i said, arabs truce is a special one.
there was no arabs in Israel land at 630. there was many Jews.
Jews lived there before 630. Jews have lived there since 1400 BC. in 630 muslims illegaly immigrated and occupied it. go search the web. i dont even need to give you prooves. write the word "kingdom of Israel" in wikipedia and you will see it. but if those who lived there before 630 has no right to claim land, also those who lived there between 630-1948 (palestinians) has no right to claim land.
There are more sources in religious books then normal history books.
Before 630 there was the Ashina-Clan, my ancestors, we should give them land too, no?
630 and 1948 is a big difference, you can not compare it.
But if you're insisting on it, my ancestors the ashina clan lived there before the jews, palestine belongs to the ashina clan, happy? Or how about we restore the Great Seljuq Empire?
no. there is no difference between 630 and 1948. the only difference is that muslim allow themselves to steal and murder but when someone else is doing so they immediately jump on him. you got prooves to be decendant of this clan? no. cause there nothing similiar between you and them. so they are not your ancestors.
muslims on all over the middle east are cruel occupiers who destroyed wonderful cultures like assyrians and babylionians for one religous took over all the area.
no. fourth geneva convension does not apply to Gaza cause Israel doesnt rule there. i told you there before and we repeat it. the blockade is legal since it prevents violence from their side.
The most pathetic thing that shows me how arabs are cruel is that fighters of Hamas hide behind civiliences to protect themselves from israeli soldiers. for godness sake, ok you dont care about inecent Israelis, but why in hell do you use these poor palestinians ppl of your nation, you flesh blood, as human shields? you suppose to defend them. they have chosen you to be their leader, and not just you buy weapon instead of better life for them, you also let then killed to save urself.
it's one thing to do it to ppl from other nations, it's not fine, it's wrong, but my point is not the humanitarian side of it. my point is arabs (and as i see around the world, many muslims as well) are so blood lovers that they kill even those from their own nation and religon, those who love them. they blow each other up in Pakistan, Sudan, Iraq. use each other as shields in Gaza and Lebanon. i'm amazed. like canibals who eat their own specy.
Guess what, i don't give a f**k about your subjective toughts.
I do care, that israel is violating the fourth geneva convention, i gave you one article. Article 27, look it up and then look up how israel treats the gazan civilian.
This article proves that israels action, all of them, are almost illegal.
They can have any food? That's a joke right? Look what is allowed to surpass the blockade, only 100 goods.
They got no materials for rebuilding their homes. Smuggling only supports the hamas, they can sell their goods overpriced, but your zionist brain won't understand this. About the missles, could you retell me who broke up the weapon truce as the first party? WHO started to FIRE FIRST?
untrue. there has been some stupid goods they didnt get, that was silly and caused by birocracy, no israeli support it and today it was changed already.
not fully true. they get small amount of materials for building. supposed to be enough but offcourse the "heroes" of Hamas so care about their ppl that they take all to their needs and leave nothing for the citizens.
are you kidding me? Hamas started the shooting. when did Israel broke the truce, lets hear...?
ONLY organizations that help the gazan civilian are allowed to bring in those goods, and this will also take a while.
The breaking up of the truce happened in november 05. Let me quote it for you.
"A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory."
@Speedsky ha here you go the article about ocalan capture.
"afroarticle" is the site. you need to right it like this:
double u (w). double u. double u. afroarticle. ci oh em (i cant send it to you like it so i tell you what to write). and then the other sentence you see next to it.
Well to be honest, your source is not very reliable, because people can decide to write reports themselves, you got to sign up.
And also look at this, greeces also claim to helped turkey to capture öcalan.
/watch?v=PvuM83BARys
And if i value the statements of your source, an author called Murithi Mutiga and the value of my source which is a personal statement from bülent ecevit himself, i have to say that im sorry but my source sounds more reliable, i will change my mind if you can
sure ,any source i'll get you will not be reliable. bulent ecevit himself. that a reliable source. if inteligences are so reliable, why the saudis and egyptians inteligences and governments always say they got no problem with Iran, and they are united, but then we here in wikileaks that they asked US to bomb Iran? and they even agreed to let Israel strike Iran over their land? i guess in the middle east inteligences are lying often.
Implying that israel was established before, they just immigrated and took the land, just like the several countries beated the ottoman empire and tried to tear turkey into pieces. The major difference here is that the turks managed to beat the "immigrated" ones back to their land and the arabs did not achieved it.
The statement is true for you, not for me. Subjective.
again, you choose to call immigrates to what fits you. in a way, all the muslims in the middle east are illegal immigrants, except the saudis which are the original muslims and they exist more or less since culture began.
so tough the Turks who came to this turkish peninsula around 800 years ago and took in over by force.
if Jews are migrants, so though the Palestinians...
There was NO israel established at all time except for 1948. This is a FACT. There was a palestine, there weren't only turks in ottoman empire but also arabs and other citizens. Fact is, in palestine, more arabs lived there and had more right then jews. They recognized this problem and started with their illegal immigration and causing terror with their jewish terroroganisations, which leaded to the war. Besides that, the arabs got betrayed by the brits.
till the arabs immigrated illegaly to this land and through out it's jewish citizens, arabs recognised that Jews have lived there for 2000 years, so they started immigrate there illegaly, killing millions, taking others land by force. jews got betrayed by the Byzantine empire.
wrong and lie. Israel was exist when the muslims were still pagans who worship statues and camels. in fact, jewish existence in this land was so strong that for years it was called the "Judaya district". this fact has uncountable facts and archeological evidences, cultural prooves (for example, hebrew is a semite language which is very close to arabic. that shows that jews are semite nation), and more. denying it is simply playing the facts.
They are acting like the nazis that they so often demoniz thats exactly how jews and others were treated by nazis during the second world war. why is the US continuing to support Isreal?
sarashitzu 3 months ago
Long live Israel!!70 years of KICKING ARAB ASS! Fascinating to watch from afar as the arabs get defeated and humiliated every time. And they keep coming back for more asswhippings????!! Are they retarded or like getting their asses handed to them??? Its got to be one or the other.
Trashfished 3 months ago
@Trashfished without america, israel is a joke. Theyll get theirs eventually...
SeerSucker1981 1 month ago
@SeerSucker1981 Irael is a joke eh?? Do you think that Israels several hundred well maintained, state of the art nukes are a joke??
Trashfished 2 weeks ago
@Trashfished and who will they use those nukes on? all of their enemies are too close to use nukes. And if they do, the whole world will gang up on them.
SeerSucker1981 2 weeks ago
hahahahaha.... 0:38 "somebody may have something....." what a lie, when i see this video watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI
unknowngitarrist 5 months ago
fucking israel.....blow them up and have a better world.
lumpfish99 6 months ago
Hatred of Israel is endemic in palestinians. They are taught as children that killing Jews is the way to heaven. When the baby was murdered, palis celebrated and gave candy to their kids.
Pavlov, anyone?
The situation cannot change. Israel has taken all that it can. A response of unprecedented brutality must follow--not to wipe out palestinians, but to eliminate the threat that they pose.
citizenintime 11 months ago
@citizenintime
idf and mossad are terrorist. they were terrorists officaly in the biggening. 1920-30 etc. all must be jailed for war crimes and terrorist acts against innocent palestinian arabs (muslims, jews, christians etc)...Israelits=former slaves of egypts=mossad, IDF=terrorits=facts!! :)
MultiHomoErectus 9 months ago
@MultiHomoErectus English isn't your first (or second) language, is it? Rather embarrassing, really.
Israel must eliminate the threat to their existence with unprecedented brutality. Quickly.
citizenintime 9 months ago
@citizenintime
it is my 5th language? why? english is not so important any more. Mandarin is the future. I rather learn that. I hope in the future there will be war with Israel! :) Deutsch land never to forget never to forgive
MultiHomoErectus 9 months ago
@MultiHomoErectus So you're illiterate in 5 languages? I really have no idea what you're trying to say.
citizenintime 9 months ago
@citizenintime
hahaha if u born in USA these days i feel sorry for u. even a ape is smarter than a US citizent these days!
MultiHomoErectus 9 months ago
@MultiHomoErectus Really? That's it? That's the best you've got?
citizenintime 9 months ago
@citizenintime
nope. I don't need to show my best to a sub human with no culture, or correct historical background. piece of shit sub human ape.
MultiHomoErectus 9 months ago
Dead terrorists make me smile.
citizenintime 1 year ago
@citizenintime dead terrorist make me smile also i nearly piss myself laghing when i hear that an idf soldier (bigest terrorist in the world) is killed
LAITH316 11 months ago
@LAITH316 What a clever retort! I'm sure your still cleaning your panties following your reaction to the news that a 3 month old baby was murdered by palestinian animals in the west bank.
Israel must respond with unprecedented brutality to eliminate the threat from the palestinian animals.
citizenintime 11 months ago
@citizenintime i think who ever did that horrid unforgivible crime should be hung drawn and quarterd but the fact is why punish people that had nothing to do with it and also when you shed a tear for those innocent children will you be shedding a tear for the innocent palastinian and gazan children who where also brutilly murderd by the idf ?
LAITH316 11 months ago
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Rabbi Martin David Kahane also known as a famous Jewish terrorist stated that, "democracy and Judaism are not the same thing." Kahane also believed that a Jewish democracy with non-Jewish citizens was self-contradictory because the non-Jewish citizens might someday become a numerical majority and vote to make the state non-Jewish.
AntiKyrgyz 1 year ago
Arabs have risen from a weakend empire, so why did they loose on 1967? and 1973? that was 40 years they had independence.
The Jews have risen from a much worst event were third of their nation were murdered and they all were hunted. I'm sure that makes you much weaker than rising from a weakend empire.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
No, that was not any promised independece. The balfour declaration was the promised independence and also the single reason, why the arabs agreed to a two-state solution. The sykes-picot agreement on the other hand proved that the brits had no intention to give the arabs independence. This was the only reason, why arabs agreed to a two-state solution, the agreement was not made.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Arabs has agreed to the two states solution only the last 15 years. they didnt agree to thatever before. surely not because of Balfour declaration. Arabs have never recognised or excepted Israel freely, they do it only cause the realize they got no other choise since they cannot defeat it.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
And u know what? what was legal or illegal is not the question cause we can argue about it for years. what matters now is the present. Arabs can't even make peace among themselves (have a look: Hamas and PA) so offcourse they wouldn't be able to make peace with Israel. They r too busy blaming Israel and cry for everything than build a stable state and create better lives for their citizens.
let them study from the Jews how you build a prosper country from much worst conditions.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
So if 1933 is past for you, why do jews still demand money from germany?
Or the sub-marines that they requested.
I also would say, let them study from the zionist how to build white phosphor and use it in a crowded area, how to stop medical flow, how to ruin economically a land, how to violate human rights law and geneva conventions.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Wait, they do not except or recognise israel, because they can't defeat it? What kind of a logic is that?
Of course they won't recognise israel nor except it, because the history shows that the zionists immigrated illegaly, because the brits betrayed the arabs over their land.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
So, on one hand you say the arabs agreed to the two state solution right after Balfour declaration (1917) (i qute you: "... the single reason why the arabs agreed to two satets solution") on the other hand you say they never did and never will (i quote you: "ofcourse they won't recognise or except it" -how come they agreed to it but not except it???) i find it really hard to follow you.
i said they did recognise Israel only after they realise Israel is a fact they cant disapear.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
When someone kills third of your ppl (if you American that mean 100 million ppl, for example) you will demand more than money from him, be sure of that. it's the Jews compesion they dont demand to kill 25 milliom german in return.
but muslims (and arabs particulary) dont need to study this from the Jews. they are experts in this. look at Egypt and Sudan where they kill Christians. India where they kill Induhists. Pakistan and Iraq where they kill other muslims and arabs.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
the irony about this, is with all the accusations, Israel is saving thousands of Palestinians ppl every year by giving them high modern medical care and aid and let them work and earn money inside Israel when their regin only give them mosks and religous dicatatorship.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
The high modern medical care and aid HAS TO BE GUARANTEED, because israel is occupying gaza, if they won't guarantee it, then they violate against the fourth geneva convention, and before the incident with the flotilla, this was the case. Look up the ICRC report BEFORE the incident. The irony is, that israel is also occupying more land, abusing a former ottoman law. Or breaking up the weapon truce.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
1. Israel has left Gaza 5 years ago so it doesn't rule there. so Israel doesnt need to help any palestinian. including ones from the west bank cause they have their own government. it's helping the Palestinians freely since it feels sorrow for the inecent ppl there who has to suffer under Hamas law.
2. What about turks occupation of kurdish areas? what about the daily massacre of kurds in east Kurdistan (north Iraq).
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
And why do they still occupy it trough controlling their air and sea space? This is also a criteria, which counts to an occupation.
2. Which occupied areas? Read the treaty of lausanne, every present single area belongs to turkey, there was no such thing as kurdistan, and speaking of kurds, what about mossad supporting the pjak/PKK?
What about the massacres and terrors, caused trough PKK/PJAK with the support and education from the zionists? Trying to achieve a greater israel?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Israel is controlling Gaza sea space because the Palestinians have shot 10,000 missles per years at israeli civiliences right after Israel has left Gaza. that was their thanks for giving them freedom. nice ppl. so now Israel doesnt allow metal inside for thhey will not build more missles.
2. treaty of this, treaty of that. all these treaties are made by the strong nations to control the weak ones. so turkey made the laussane treaty to rule the helpless kurds.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
So? It still does not affect the fact, that israel is occupying gaza.
#2, Turkey was the weaker land, had to defend itself against 6 countries, and i'm not counting in the ethnicitys, that started riots and weakened turkey from the inner side.
3# Wrong, Chief of the turkish secret agency, Senkal Atasagun said that turkey worked together with the U.S.A, not with israel.
4. Muslims? Or extremists? Would you stop prejuidicing here?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
1. when you occupy a place to defend yourself it's legal and justified.
2. the buttom line, the kurdish are the biggest ethnical minority in the world without a state of his own, depressed by Turkey. also you have killed many Kurds. i wouldnt say anything unless you had talked about Israel. this is purely being hypocrate, since turkey is doing it as well, but point the finger at Israel. someone who do a crime, cannot critisize others for doing the same.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
1. I'm not talking about wether it is legal or not, i'm talking about the fourth geneva convention, that israel used to violate several times before this incident, and still does sometimes. Look up what it says, then look up the medical reports from the ICRC.
2. Are you blind? The kurds got their own party in turkey now, and yet most of them still defend the PKK, still the majority runs with an abdullah öcalan poster in their hands. They got more freedom than a migrant in europe.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
1. be more specific on what Geneva laws has Israel broken and i'll be able to responde. dont know ICRC reports. again be specific.
2. that's excectly the problem Israel has with the arabs citizens. they support and help the Palestinian terrorists shooting at Israeli cities and blowing ppl up. yet Israel give them full rights. as i said, Turkey is the same as Israel, just Israel isnt hypocrate and never critisize others while it acting like them.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
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@ahulbaloa
1. The fourth geneva convention. Link: tinyurl(.)com/3bwgby, "The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance."
2. Never compare Turkey with your Zionist-Land."Israeli policies in the West Bank harshly discriminate against Palestinian residents, depriving them of basic necessities while providing lavish amenities for Jewish settlements" want more?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Source is the U.N. Human rights and now from the Den Hague, "Mr Hague said the incident underlined the need for Israel to respect UN resolution 1860, which insisted on unfettered access for aid and commercial goods to Gaza." As you see, Israel violates even against this UN resolution.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
1. oh give me a break, would you. that's your source? organization ruled by muslim countries and radical lefts who continiously gather hands to destroy Israel. how come I never heard one resolution condemning horouble countries like Sudan and Somalia? how is this even possible that anti-human right states like Iran and China are members in it? This council is a walking joke and it's resolutions just show how the world is about power and not justice.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
So, since this is a joke in your subjective mind, it gives israel the freedom to violate against a few laws? Treat the palestinians like shit?
I talked with a few others about this and every time they said that this and that is a joke, almost every organization is a joke that criticize israels foreign policy.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
answer the following question:
How come all these organisaztions never criticized China for depressing the Tibetian? had no resolution against Sudan who murdered 2 million ppl in one horrible war? how come millions are tortured and laws are violated in arabs and muslim world but noone in this council speak? when u will be able to answer this, u will have a saying. the thing is that ppl like you try to make a some laws for Israel and diffrent ones to others. hypocrates as i said.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Not hypocrate, hypocrate is when you're trying to justify the crimes done by israel with given examples, like you did. So basically you're saying that israel is on the same level as china for depressing tibetian, like sudan who murdered 2 million people? I'm ok with that.
Actually the Human Rights Watch published a report about the situation there, and blamed the sudanese government and the International Criminal Court is investigating in this case.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
no Israel is not like them. but i dont want to argue with about it cause it's not the point. and you keep missing the point everytime either on perpose or cause it's too complicated for you. so GET THE POINT. if you are like it, you cannot criticize others. that's it. Turkey is rulling the kurdish and depress them so you cannot talk about Israel, even if Israel is the worst country on the planet.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
The Turks did not stole any land from the kurds, the treaty of lausanne proves this, as i said before, the turks gave the kurds more rights. They had their own party which openly claimed to release the mass murder öcalan, israel would bomb gaza if they would require something similiar.
Turkey is not the same.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
again we repeat on the same dicussion. what you say is crap mister. you keep mentioning treaties which was created around 100 years ago and because they fit your ideology you decide that these treaties are the truth. if that's so, why you dont pay the armenians compensations for killing 1.5 million of them at this time? the all world acknoledge and say that you murdered them but that doesnt fit you so you denide.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Oh yeah? What about the armenians killing a whole town in turkey? What about izmir?
Treaties are of course important, how can you say that those treaties are not important?
Turkey was MADE on these treaties, without them zionists like you could claim that the land belonged to the kurds or that atatürk promised this and that. Look up the treaties and look up what happened and you'll see that what i said is not crap, mister.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
again you miss the point. the problem is not the treaties. the problem that you choose what treaties to except. you do it all the times. your country use violence but you criticize Israel for the same thing, you rule upon other nation but you talk about Israel's occupation, you condemn Kurdish terror but justifies the Palestinians one, you break laws but cry for Israelis doing the same, you point at one treaty but ignore anothers. man, that is, by defention, Hypocracy.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Kurdish terror = PKK, not the kurd citizen. Turks rule on their own land. Palestinian ones? I tought you're only against the hamas?
Which treatys did i ignore? I did not ignored anyone, the treaty of sevres was not valid, because the turks fought against it and the attackers agreed with the turks to do another treaty, called the treaty of lausanne.
Turkey does not owe anyone a land, and i advice you to read it before you type about turkey with me again.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky human right watch. oh thank you very much.
but WHERE IS THE UN??????????????? after 2 million ppl murdered they cant even have one resolution about them. They had 100 resolution already about Israel and the number of Palestinians who died isnt even 10,000. you see- 10,000 against 2 million, and they choose to condemn Israel. that is hypocracy, mister, that is. not to mention the 50,000 ppl murdered in kurdistan, millions who died in china, russia, iraq.
so pathetic.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Could you point me out, where to find kurdistan on the map?
And just because people died in china gives israel the right to murder gazans?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
what about other desicions of the world saying you occupy illegaly north cyprus and made illegal war there? ha, that one you dont like so you say it's bullshit. what about the peace treaties done between Israel and Egypt but we keep getting missles from their area to Israeli cities? f*ck peace with them.
require what similiar? arabs parties in Israel support terrorist groups like Hamas publicly and demand to release all their mass murderers. but you keep saying this crap.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
We can discuss the mather somewhere else, but just for your information. Greeks tried to kill the turks on cyprus, in the treaty of lausanne, they agreed to respect eachother and treat each other well.
Since this was not fulfilled turkey had the right to invade cyprus. Zionists on the other hand just immigrated illegally into palestine and captured it, i showed you the treatys and declarations.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
no. Jews have returned to the land the arab muslims illegaly occupied from them. The UN resolution acknoledge Israel by a declaration (those that you like so much) so it's legal. north cyprus is unrecognized by the world, and turkish occupation there is illegal by UN decision. so your actions are I-L-L-E-G-A-L. as i said, you agree to any resolution and treaty fits you, and kick any other that you dont like.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I want a source for their returning, since i found only one not reliable source and other sources are only in religious books. The UN had the idea for a two-state-solution, not telling the jews that they can have the land.
Besides that the jews immigrated illegaly there, trying to be the majority, along with the help of the jewish terroroganisations, zionists achieved their illegal goal, palestine for themselves.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I would also advice you to read up the history of north cyprus, greeks supporting cyprus greeks to annex the land to greece. I bet you wouldn't open your mouth if this would've happened.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Kurdistan is an area spreading from east Turkey, north iraq, northern west iran and some of syria. these ppl wish to have their freedom, they dont want to be turks but you keep depressng them and occupy their land doing a deal with the arabs and the persians around.
just because ppl die in china gives you the right to murder kurds?
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Occupy WHICH land? Can you show me any official treaty or something similiar, that shows that the land belonged to the kurds?
Do it, show it to me.
The treaty of sevres is invalid, because it never was forced trough and at this point the Turkish War of Independence started, and the only valid and legimitate treaty here is the treaty of lausanne.
There was and will be no kurdistan, it's a dream just like greater israel.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
I'm not so sure about it. kurds are having babies 3 times more than Turks. there rate in population reaches 20%. today there are 35 million Kurds at this area and around 60 million Turks, who knows what wil happened in 20 years.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I love it how you're trying to drive off-topic or trying to excuse israels violatin with the violatin of other lands.
That is what i call hypocracy, you got no back up arguments and sources. You did not showed me any of them.
But keep trying. I will still insist on discussing israels foreign policy and showing up the violations.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
And i advice you to visit the Human Rights Watch China site, you'll find many points which the organization criticize. Open your zionistic eyes and do a little bit of research before calling someone a hypocrate.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
3. i dont know what did this chief say, and since Israel doesn't want to make more enemies in this place it's likely that he was asked by Israel not to mention it's involvement. Israel has helped Turkey like no other country and just a quick look in wikipedia will show you this.
4. maybe extremists, but since out of 57 muslim countries, around 50 are involve with somekind of bloody conflict, i say that's not just extermists.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Likely, possible etc. Either you come with sources which back your arguments up or don't mention it.
The world will implode likely in 2012... They did not helped to get abdullah öcalan as you falsely claimed.
And now you're trying to drive off-topic again?
4. Maybe? So you're saying that muslims are terrorists? Then i can say that maybe all jews are fu**ing zionists, no? Tell me in what kind of conflict are those 50 countries, with sources not from your own brain.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky by the way, that's something i happened to find in many arb and muslim countries. these countries has no democracy, no civil rights, they fight and kill millions, but they also talk about Israel at the UN. Unblievably Hypocrates. the all UN civil rights council composed by states like Sudan, Saudi arabia etc. whatr a joke.
3. sources are very hard to find when it comes to middle east because all is done under the table. like the arabs who wish to bomb Iran but play as it's friends.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
That's your subject opinion and prejuidices, me and many other people think that israel has a double standard and hypocrates all the time.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
it's all about claims. you think that you know something because that's what you wish to believe. truth is in the eyes of the beholder. you dont care if Israel is right or not, doing legal or illegal things. your basic believe is that this land belongs to muslims by GOD's will, and therefore no matter what you will be shown, will not change your mind, cause from the first place, Israelis shouldnt be there...
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Israelis shouldn't be there, that's correct, god's will? I said im an agnostic so i don't care much. What i do know is, that the zionists organized an ILLEGAL immigration, read it up yourself.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
and here we see the buttom line bursting out of your "human right speach". even if israel were a kidney state you wouldnt care cause you object it's existence. so all the dicussion we had makes to difference from the first place. for that let me tell you: arabs are trying to do it for a long time, they are much more experienced than you at this matter. it didnt work for them before, it wouldnt work ever. as u see, non of their actions (wars, terror, flotillas, condemnations) works,
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Wow nice counter-argument, it really convinced me to think otherwise.
Either way, bring up an argument with a source or leave it like that.
I see that nothing worked, israel still continous to violate laws and do crimes.
If you got no counter-argument then leave it.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
3. So, you can claim whatever you want and there is no chance for me to see if you're correct, is that so?
Then i claim that all your accuses are bullsh*t and zionist propaganda, come up with sources or leave it as a zionist propaganda.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Tell me, why do i get the feeling that all the jews do support zionism?
Is it accepted amongst your enviroment? I see in zionism another variant of fascism, this is of course off-topic and you do not have to provide me any sources.
But i did not believed in any other arguments you brought up, since the lack of sources.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
What about the occupation of north Cyprus and kicking out the greek citizens of this place? where is your sence of justice now?
3. muslims are killing around the world more ppl (including other muslims) than any other nation on earth. it happens in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Yemen, Sudan, Lebanon, China, Russia, Serbia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philipines, and all over Africa. even your country soldiers are killing many inecent afghans in this stupid war.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Sence of justice? Do you know, why the turks landed there? I don't think so, otherwise there would be a genocide.
And why are you talking off-topic? I'm here to discuss the foreign policy of israel.
3. MORE PPL? U.S.A invaded a whole country, collateral damages are above 1 million, i'm an agnostic, but this argument is bullsh*t. My countryman do MORE positive things then damage, because they're not inhuman like the IDF.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky but you see, that's not the point. the point is that whatever you say about Israel your own country do the same. you say Israel blockade Gaza? you blockade kurdistan. no such thing kurdistan? no such thing as Palestine. kurds do terror? so does Palestinians. only because it's your country you say it's legal and because it's Israel you say it's illegal.
3. Israel helped Turkey against PKK more than any other state. you captured their leader thanks to Israel.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@Speedsky
lets not plat games. the turkish citizens who came upon the flotila were violent provocators who attacked these soldiers who only came to nevigate them to a different location. you and me and all turkey know that it wasnt about peace. they came to kill. which is a little bit cheeky in my eyes, since i never heard Israel sending aid to Kurdistan and trying or brake the blockade from the PKK.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Provocate attackers were the IDF, shooting before landing, look at various videos and you'll see it. Look at those before the boarding. Speaking of came to kill, there was a "list" with details of a few person, this list looked like a hitlist, so tell me which party came in peace? The IDF? Never. And what about the 19-year old US-Citizen Faruk? He got shot from 45 centimetres into the back of his head, does this sound like self defence? Or what about the stolen credit cards?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky all the turkish army based on Israel developments. not to mention the huge earth quake in Turkey on 99 when Israel sent you hundreds of ppl to aid.
4. USA fights only Afghanistan and Iraq. muslims fight in 80% of the world around.
5. IDF didnt shot first. lets not argue at it cause neither of us can prove it. you got proves i got as well.
the 19 years old tried to stab a soldier and was shot by another one from behind.
credit cards done by bad soldiers. they were put in jail.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I want a non-zionist or israel-near source for your claim with the 19 year old, because he got shot first into the stomach with a 9mm.
Bad soliders? I think all the participiants from the zionist party are bad soldiers and all should be put in jail.
Also, i want source for that claim too. If it is true what you're saying, i will not bring this argument up again.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Speaking of supplies, don't hide the fact that turkey is also providing your country supplies, 50 million of litres since 2004, every year. So please, and believe me, turkey will develop their own military equipment, they are already developing a drone, all on their own.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
not so sure. i used to admire Turkey once for being the only muslim modern state. but the way it's going these days, i find it hard to belive that it wouldnt be a religous dictatorship at the future. (like famous politician said lately : "in twenty years turkey will be Iran and Iran will be Turkey"). for Israel it makes a little difference cause Turkey is a small player in international playground, but if Turkey will change, it would develop only downwords, to the era of ignorance.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
That's your own opinion, i don't want to discuss it, since every free mind on earth got his subjective opinion about turkey, stick to the foreign policys of israel, you did not used ANY sources to back your arguments up. So i will not believe anything you said, i on the other hand told you to look this and that up, seems like you didn't do it either.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky prepering with knives, stones, poles and other cold weapons to beat the soldiers. you know, the biggest proof for my point is that one of your newspapers have shown photo of Israeli soldiers wounded and bleeding after they were attacked. if these comandos had wanted to kill the passengers, non of the ppl on boat would stay alive and non of the soldiers would be injured. these soldiers have defeated the best arab terror organizations at the area, surely no ametur could hart them.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
No amateur? Well it looked like they were a bunch of rookies, and you call knifes in the galley weapons?
They shooted before landing, which leaded to an escalation of the tense situation, they had it comming, the crew had all the right to defend their ship from the zionist pirates. They had their hitlist, they never came in peace they tried to eliminate or atleast capture the people on the list. The crew wasn't even inhuman as the IDF, they treated 2 soldiers downstairs.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
believe me one thing. if the soldiers had wanted to kill these ppl, non of them would be alive. tell me, if they shot first, why didnt they just blow the ship up? why landind on the ship and not putting a sniper that kills each one and than land? this arogancy of you when you say these comandos are rookies are a common atitude of all the arabs towards Israel. that's why they loose everytime.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Why do we discuss this without any solide source? I said i do not want to discuss your subjective opinion with you. I told you the facts, there was a hitlist which indicates that the IDF never came in peace.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
You did not disprove any argument of mine, neither the one with the occupation, nor the illegal immigration.
Or the low medical support. Nor can you bring a logic argument, which claims that the shot at the back of the head from 45 centimetres was in self defence, this was an execution. The IDF was shooting at the ship, before entering, spreading fake videos and claims.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
7. there was no illegal immigration. Jews have returned to the land the muslims have stolen from them before. when someone take your house by force and after a while you get stronger and take it back, u dont call yourself illegal. you did the right thing.
occupation of Palestinians is excectly like the one in Kurdistan.
8. Israel doesnt help the PKK as it helps the turkish army. though i think it should help the kurds after turkey acts of war against Israel and Erdugan behaviour.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
But Muslims did not invaded any country, destroyed it trough collateral damage, made the prices go up, or caused a civil war, just look at iraq, all these things fit to the land, which was invaded by the americans without any reason.
5# Of course there is prove, as i said look at the videos that show the IDF before they enter the ship, the crew still had the opportunity to broadcast live from the ship, before the IDF cut trough any connection, look at those videos.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
5. Amercians invaded Iraq to save it's ppl from Sadam Husein,
6. the videos i know and many others show that the IDF didnt shoot at first. only after the "peace activists" attacked the soldiers with cold weapons and stole the gun from one of them and start shooting, the soldiers responded.
you say you want a non-zionist prove. however, i want you to give one non- anti zionist prove that the soldiers killed him for no reason.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
5. Yeah, maybe from the kurdish minority, open your eyes, most of the arabs actually liked him.
And since he's gone, iraq is more in a crisis then ever. Prices got higher then ever etc.
6. You did not looked up any videos, where the crew still had the possibility to broadcast right? Almost every debatte partner did this, some kind of jewish ignorance? Look it up, they shoot before they enter the ship, this gave the crew all the rights in the world to defend themselves.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
4. no. i respect many muslims. but the muslim world, as a general. should make a discussion among itself about how come there is so many killings and depression all over. how come Turkey is the only democratic state, and even there the army needs to guard and interfer many times to prevent changing it.
6. That is absolutely bullshit. i've seen all the videos (both the Israeli and the international ones). in non of them the soldiers shoot first. what you do see is the ppl on the boat
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
4. Again your subjective opinion, what do you want me to discuss about your opinion? Come up with sources, i'm not here to discuss with you, i'm here to expose your zionist propaganda you're spreading around here.
6. Let me show it to you, /watch?v=p5AbL8gOre8 for example this, look at 3:36, you can see blood and a ship trying to dock on the flotilla. This happened before the boarding of the zionist soldiers, as you can see the helicopter is still in air at 4:38
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
you see how your "prooves" are pointless? what do you see? what? you see army boats and than blood in the ship. it could be edited by the editor, it could be two parts from different cameras that were brought together. beside, there was more than one helicopter that put the soldiers down there, so it's obviously not before the soldiers landed but a lot later. are these your prooves? come on is that a joke? if that so, i got many films to show you at once.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Sorry for the typo, Then give me prove for your claim, i'm waiting. But if you would think logical, almost every single videocamera had been confiscated, they were not able to broadcast live. You do the math and tell me if this is possible after the IDF lands on the ship.
Editing? I saw a video, where one of the "terrorists" walked trough an metal obstacle, this video was released by the IDF. So much for editing, i will provide the video if you want to.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
So either way, you're just making things up in your mind without providing source, which is not a debatte, or you've to provide me with sources for every single claim you did, i did not see any treaty, declaration, human rights source, geneva convention etc.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
And since Israel violated the fourth geneva convention with their blockade, the very same blockade was illegal, which makes the upholding of the same blockade ALSO illegal, thus the attack on the ship and crew was illegal.
it is also not legal to steal something and then sell it as if it would be legal.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
I'm sure you (and all the other "anti zionists") dont know what zionism means and you are poisoned by all the non- odjective sources that you read to hate Israel. you welcome to tell me what zionism is and we'll see where you stand.
i can provide you many sources, but that would take a lot of time to make a research which i hardly have.
you didnt provide me any sources other than substential evidences depends on a person's prespective and not total evidences.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
As far as i know, zionism is a political ideologie, just like nazism was. They killed and displaced many arabs from their own homeland and claimed it to themselves.
I provided to every argument sources, if not, tell me which one is without a source and i will immediately deliver it. Except for the 19 year old faruks death, you can only conceive that if you're capable of logical thinking.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Zionism, for your information, by defenition, is the Jewish ppl desire to come back to their land of Israel (=Zion), who was taken by force from them long time ago' and to rule upon themselves in this land, and not to let muslims and christians rule them like they did brutally for thousands of years.
Israel has a channel in arabic, arabs in Israel has full rights but no duties, you have murdered more kurdish in last years than all the Palestinians together Israel killed ever.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@Speedsky
but the biggest prove i have is this:
Whatever you say about Israel is right for Turkey cause Israel and Turkey are doing excectly the same actions regarding to their conflict. and that claim you cannot contradict. anything you mentioned about Israel is done by Turkey as well. you will not find one difference. therefore, if you say it's legal than it's right for Israel as well. if it's not, you cannot critisize Israel while you are the same.
I think that's the winning proof.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I do not think that turkey stole their own homeland, the treaty of lausanne proves this. Turkey does not bomb a whole town because the PKK attacked a few buildings and areas, turkey does not treat kurds like shit, more give them more rights, like their own tv channel in kurdish, their own party etc. As i said, do not compare turkey with your zionist homeland, you're insulting me.
And turkey does not violate against the fourth geneva convention.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Arabs have 3 politcal parties in Israel, Arabs are alowed to teach their culture and religous in schools. Arabic is a second formal language in Israel. not like tureky who depressed the kurdish for years not allowing them to have self indentity, and just lately you changed it cause you want to flatter the european union to except you. I know arabic better than you. so you see, Israel is 10 times better than Turkey. your words are the propaganda here.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Oh really? What about the little kids threwing stones at a palestinian women with a baby on her arms(/watch?v=adr7lXt3ujo) or stealing land? (/watch?v=rcPO9j4Nqj8).
I could go on and bring about 100 more of these videos if you want me to. "Israel is 10 times better than Turkey" What are you? A troll? I said stop comparing countries, or do you want me to compare israels foreign policy with a few others and call israel a sh'thole? This only happens in kindergarten.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
oh come on man... what? now you show me kids who throw stones? what's next? babies who saying bad words to each other? not to mention the all stones throwing the Palestinians invented when they threw tones of stones at Israelis the last conflicts. beside, as i said, me and you both can show 1000 videos to each other. an unobjective director can create any film he wishes that back his claim. that's not proof. you gotta be kidding me...
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
This is a response to your accusions of palestinians being barbaric to jews, as you can see it is the exact same but with different roles.
If you keep posting arguments like that (this was your real first argument with source), i will debatte with you on the same level.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Most of the turks do not want to join the EU. And i'm not suprised that arabs speak arabic in israel, because it belonged to the arabs. Israel is 10 times better than turkey must be a joke.
My words are not propaganda, i provided and will provide source to any argument that you doubt, i do not pull things out of my arse like you do, i state facts here, i'm waiting for your sources, i did not seen even a single one.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
here you go again:
/watch?v=1oPgnDF1Smo&feature=related
you see, the first moments in the flotilla show excectly the time before army landing, where are the shooting? the only thing you see is the passengers throwing shit on the soldiers at 2:14 on 2:27 u see how the soldiers shoot PAINT BALLS!!! on the passengers (if it was real bullets all this passengers would have been dead and fall to the water since they were on the edge, and you see them later moving)
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I didn't get the last video..
But then i would be on the same level as you, as you can see they shot first, it doesn't matter if it was paintball or live ammunition, because exactly THIS jewish-rambo behaviour escalated the situation, and exactly THIS gives the crew the right to defend themselves since they were attacked first.
And i didn't see any passenger throwing stuff from 2:14 - 2:27, after that yes, but you can count it as a self defense.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I'm still missing source for your claim, that israel helped the turks to get abdullah öcalan, and i want an honest opinion about the 19 year old, who got shot from 45 centimetres into the back of the head.
Into the back of the head, this means he was lying on his stomach and 45 centimetres is about as long as a ruler, this surely was not any act of self defense, this was an execution.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
fourth Geneva convension- i told you Israel doesnt break any law.
the 19 years old- you dont get it? there are no prooves for this since noone took a photo of the incident. you got no proof either and you keep throwing ecusations to the air as if you are court of law. the only thing you got is a balistic exam, created by someone i dont even know.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
San
102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
San Remo Manual.
Forbidding cement to rebuild their houses, enying it other objects essential for its survival.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Israel is not starving the Gazans and doing no excessive blockade. so it's legal.
they can have any food exist, they got homes but no materials for building weapon. though they are smuggling this as well and as we speak they keep shooting missles at Israel without response, and if they go on dont you think that Israel will be a sucker. i promiss you that.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I recognize a gap here that you and other zionists like to abuse. The san remo manual says in his article 102 if the blockade only exists for the punishment it is illegal. It is obvious that the blockade does more damage to the gazan civilization then the hamas. I do not agree that the blockade is legal.
But israel still violates against the fourth geneva convention, against several articles, for example article 27.
Turn it around as you want, israel still violates against rules.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
i'll thank you to tell me what is article 27 in brief for i'll be able to relate to this.
wrong. Israel dont damage the population since it gives the Palestinians health care (irony- they shoot at you, you save their lives) in thousands every year, allow them to work and earn bread inside Israel (again irony- they do terror and ruin your economy, you use your economy to finance them), and compensate many times inecents who died excidently during the war.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Oh yeah, look up the ICRC report for the healthcare, before the incident it reached a all-time low, after the incident it grew up a bit and yet there are only 100 prodcuts allowed. This is a violation against the 27th article of the fourth geneva convention. Work? They are getting treated like animals, this is not respectful, the article 27 demands it.
Look at the video. watch?v=L5dCddGAIVg
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
tell me what the ICRC is saying and i can relate to it.
so you search youtube like a robot, find any negetive thing that happens and show it to me. like there is any country around which is perfect. you are so consumed by your hate that you cant make the difference between what's minor and what's big. ok, these ppl pass through a border check (like you dont pass through it when you go to other country), so it's crowded. it's crowded in airports as well many times.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I won't do the work for you, you do it. Or just look up pages, where they report unhuman treats against gazan civilians, that's enough for the violation of the article 27.
They do not treat me like sh*t in airports.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
but Israel is spending a lot of money to improvethese conditions. considering the fact that any one of these ppl could be a terrorist and iIsraelis were killed by ones like those who passed through border check, it's not an easy job to make it more free.
you tell me where did you get the news about fire breaking and i'll tell you what is your problem since the day we speak. by the way, i remember this truce, it happened because israel transfered it's citizens from gaza.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Consider the fact that any jews could be also radical zionists. They bombed and raided towns in gaza, occupied palestine.
Where i got the news? Research and european TV.
Wether israel transfered its citizen or stole another land, they broke up the truce. This is a fact.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
no. israel isn't doing inhuman treays so it's not a violation. noe you are the one who talk from ur heart and without prooves.
israel is not treating palestinians like shit in this borders cross. they are asked to do anything passengers in other airports are asked.
again european TV, filled by mulsim and lefts reporters willing to lie in order to make a point.
are you listening to what you say? israel transferred it's own citizens from this area
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Are you retarded? Or do you got some kind of another disease?
The Fourth Geneva Convention, does it ring a bell inside your brain?
If so, look up the articles, what do these articles tell you? Even if the occupier treats the occupied territory with no respect, it is a crime.
Now tell me, how does stealing land, discriminating palestinians in the waiting lines and using live ammunition get along with the article?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
taking land for security reasons is allowed. i can show it to you if you like.
noone descriminate palestinians. it's something you invent out of your biased point of view.
no body uses live emunition against palesinians. again, you bring up unbased accusations.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Show it to me,
oh no discrimination of palestians you say? Then what else is, destroying their houses and forbidding supplies to build up again? Love?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
houses are ruined during wars. it happens all over the world. they are allowed to build their himes and they are doing it as we speak. not my problem that they have a regim that takes all their materials for it's blood reasons.
you want a proof? mind the world news a little bit a you shell see. just yesterday a document leaked from the americans and published in wikileaks said that the israelis and palestinians talk about exchanging areas in peace process. it's all over the news.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
They are not allowed, only the humanitarian organisations are allowed to bring in cement, which takes a while.
It is a problem that the regime of israel BLOCKADES goods.
I want sources from your side, to check if you're using neutral sources.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
it did it, because the palestinians demanded it as a condition of making peace. but in return they gave violence. and after that you ask us to stop build in their territories. why would we? you give them gesture they give you missles.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Oh wait, so you're admitting that you agree with israel to steal land from the palestinians and build own jewish settlements?
Is that correct?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
offcourse i agreee. i told you that the first time. i never lie cause i got nothing to hide. israel is taking land necessary for it's security, and suggest the palestinians alternative land in return in any peace negosiation. it is well recignised by israelis (and today more and more by the all world as well) that arab muslims are very violent and untrustable countries and Israel must take precautions in case they decide to attack it after the peace will be signed.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I want a source that proves me, that israelis wanted to exchange land.
If you cannot provide source, then i call bullsh*t, why do you think they're abusing the former ottoman law?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
oh i remeber that truce pretty well, there wasn't even one day of quite from their side, they were keep shooting once in a while and throwing missles, just Israel didnt respond. arabs truce. like there is now. go find how many missles they shot at Israel the last year, all this time a "truce" is agreed, by a treay (those you like so much). as i said, arabs truce is a special one.
there was no arabs in Israel land at 630. there was many Jews.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
I want a non-jewish/non-zionistic source for your claim.
630? So you're saying that ethnicitys which lived in 630 got the right to claim a land they colonized?
Then let us give illegal israel to the people who lived before 630.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
Jews lived there before 630. Jews have lived there since 1400 BC. in 630 muslims illegaly immigrated and occupied it. go search the web. i dont even need to give you prooves. write the word "kingdom of Israel" in wikipedia and you will see it. but if those who lived there before 630 has no right to claim land, also those who lived there between 630-1948 (palestinians) has no right to claim land.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
There are more sources in religious books then normal history books.
Before 630 there was the Ashina-Clan, my ancestors, we should give them land too, no?
630 and 1948 is a big difference, you can not compare it.
But if you're insisting on it, my ancestors the ashina clan lived there before the jews, palestine belongs to the ashina clan, happy? Or how about we restore the Great Seljuq Empire?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
no. there is no difference between 630 and 1948. the only difference is that muslim allow themselves to steal and murder but when someone else is doing so they immediately jump on him. you got prooves to be decendant of this clan? no. cause there nothing similiar between you and them. so they are not your ancestors.
muslims on all over the middle east are cruel occupiers who destroyed wonderful cultures like assyrians and babylionians for one religous took over all the area.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to israel because israel occupies palestine.
Almost all the movements made by the israelis are illegal, you can look it up yourself.
Compare the news about israels brutality with the laws of the fourth geneva convention.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
no. fourth geneva convension does not apply to Gaza cause Israel doesnt rule there. i told you there before and we repeat it. the blockade is legal since it prevents violence from their side.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@Speedsky
The most pathetic thing that shows me how arabs are cruel is that fighters of Hamas hide behind civiliences to protect themselves from israeli soldiers. for godness sake, ok you dont care about inecent Israelis, but why in hell do you use these poor palestinians ppl of your nation, you flesh blood, as human shields? you suppose to defend them. they have chosen you to be their leader, and not just you buy weapon instead of better life for them, you also let then killed to save urself.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
The IDF did the same, picking a boy up and holding him infront of them, while checking houses.
You and your zionist double standart.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Oh wait, i forgot, the IDF did the same with a palestinian, not with their own citizen. How human, no?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
it's one thing to do it to ppl from other nations, it's not fine, it's wrong, but my point is not the humanitarian side of it. my point is arabs (and as i see around the world, many muslims as well) are so blood lovers that they kill even those from their own nation and religon, those who love them. they blow each other up in Pakistan, Sudan, Iraq. use each other as shields in Gaza and Lebanon. i'm amazed. like canibals who eat their own specy.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Guess what, i don't give a f**k about your subjective toughts.
I do care, that israel is violating the fourth geneva convention, i gave you one article. Article 27, look it up and then look up how israel treats the gazan civilian.
This article proves that israels action, all of them, are almost illegal.
Now, prove me wrong.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
They can have any food? That's a joke right? Look what is allowed to surpass the blockade, only 100 goods.
They got no materials for rebuilding their homes. Smuggling only supports the hamas, they can sell their goods overpriced, but your zionist brain won't understand this. About the missles, could you retell me who broke up the weapon truce as the first party? WHO started to FIRE FIRST?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
untrue. there has been some stupid goods they didnt get, that was silly and caused by birocracy, no israeli support it and today it was changed already.
not fully true. they get small amount of materials for building. supposed to be enough but offcourse the "heroes" of Hamas so care about their ppl that they take all to their needs and leave nothing for the citizens.
are you kidding me? Hamas started the shooting. when did Israel broke the truce, lets hear...?
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
ONLY organizations that help the gazan civilian are allowed to bring in those goods, and this will also take a while.
The breaking up of the truce happened in november 05. Let me quote it for you.
"A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory."
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
as for ocalan, as i said, i have a very good source. impossible sending it to you at any combination i use.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@Speedsky afroarticles./article-dashboard/Article/11-Years-Ago--How-Israel-s-Mossad-Captured-Kurdish-Fugitive-Abdullah-Ocalan-in-Kenya/202576
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
You also did not answered to my tiny url, the fourth geneva convention.
Did you even looked it up or did it also get lost like my last video?
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky ha here you go the article about ocalan capture.
"afroarticle" is the site. you need to right it like this:
double u (w). double u. double u. afroarticle. ci oh em (i cant send it to you like it so i tell you what to write). and then the other sentence you see next to it.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Well to be honest, your source is not very reliable, because people can decide to write reports themselves, you got to sign up.
And also look at this, greeces also claim to helped turkey to capture öcalan.
/watch?v=PvuM83BARys
And if i value the statements of your source, an author called Murithi Mutiga and the value of my source which is a personal statement from bülent ecevit himself, i have to say that im sorry but my source sounds more reliable, i will change my mind if you can
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
sure ,any source i'll get you will not be reliable. bulent ecevit himself. that a reliable source. if inteligences are so reliable, why the saudis and egyptians inteligences and governments always say they got no problem with Iran, and they are united, but then we here in wikileaks that they asked US to bomb Iran? and they even agreed to let Israel strike Iran over their land? i guess in the middle east inteligences are lying often.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Provide me a more reliable source.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
wanted to show you true statement made by Binjamin Netanyahu:
"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."
That is the base for all the conflict...
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Implying that israel was established before, they just immigrated and took the land, just like the several countries beated the ottoman empire and tried to tear turkey into pieces. The major difference here is that the turks managed to beat the "immigrated" ones back to their land and the arabs did not achieved it.
The statement is true for you, not for me. Subjective.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
again, you choose to call immigrates to what fits you. in a way, all the muslims in the middle east are illegal immigrants, except the saudis which are the original muslims and they exist more or less since culture began.
so tough the Turks who came to this turkish peninsula around 800 years ago and took in over by force.
if Jews are migrants, so though the Palestinians...
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
There was NO israel established at all time except for 1948. This is a FACT. There was a palestine, there weren't only turks in ottoman empire but also arabs and other citizens. Fact is, in palestine, more arabs lived there and had more right then jews. They recognized this problem and started with their illegal immigration and causing terror with their jewish terroroganisations, which leaded to the war. Besides that, the arabs got betrayed by the brits.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
till the arabs immigrated illegaly to this land and through out it's jewish citizens, arabs recognised that Jews have lived there for 2000 years, so they started immigrate there illegaly, killing millions, taking others land by force. jews got betrayed by the Byzantine empire.
ahulbaloa 1 year ago
@ahulbaloa
Ah, there is a little difference here, you got no sources. You're talking with your subjective mind.
The brits reported about the illegal immigration and about the jewish terrororganizations.
But keep having fun.
Speedsky 1 year ago
@Speedsky
ha now i got your point.
wrong and lie. Israel was exist when the muslims were still pagans who worship statues and camels. in fact, jewish existence in this land was so strong that for years it was called the "Judaya district". this fact has uncountable facts and archeological evidences, cultural prooves (for example, hebrew is a semite language which is very close to arabic. that shows that jews are semite nation), and more. denying it is simply playing the facts.
ahulbaloa