Can shock collar dog training be something other than awful?

[jbfitzwilliam]

I am so grateful you have posted your e-collar training sessions. My Brittany is "usually" obedient, but when he is on a scent, and off leash, he cannot be trusted. All bets are off as he tunes me out and is gone in a flash. I am now starting to train him on the e-collar; he's trained on the i-fence; this is already easy for him to extrapolate. It could save his life. Thank you so much.Your training is kind, intuitive and provides much reward for good behavior. Sorry about undeserved negativity.

[vegas702bred]

i support these collars. my dog is extremely obedient and knows many commands because of these. i have tried it on myself and it is tolerable. so to say it is animal cruelty is absurd. check out my training video on my page.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

I've changed the title and taken out the ? about +R, perhaps the title change will make this video less offensive to some... perhaps not....but my goal is to get information out on other ways to use the tool, not to create a pissing match with people who are upset by using language to create thought....Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[mebooradley]

I am so completely impressed by your demeanor here on YouTube. The way you handle the sometimes less than kind comments is so professional. When confronted with studies and the trending flavor of the month topics in canine behavior it is a great thing to see you able to refer humbly to your experience as a professional. You are a great example. Thank you! And thank you for having the confidence to share your wisdom when it comes to e-collars. Keep up the great work and the great vids!

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@mebooradley Thank you. I deeply appreciate you taking the time to write those words.

[MsBmm13]

Are you using the shock to stop a behavior?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Am I using electrical stimulation to stop a behavior? No.

[MsBmm13]

@ThatsMyDogInc What does it do then? Does it stop the behavior or a make a behavior occur again? It can only do one of those two things as defined by science.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Much of e/c work is -R so reinforces behavior by making sensation go away, (challenge in education is helping others learn that sensation can be notice-able or annoying and not painful in order for it to work- but that is another subject) However, I also believe there is more too it that is not so easily packaged when we look at e/c training through a different lens.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc But honestly, why do it that way? Would you want to be taught to do something by being annoyed into doing it? Wouldn't you rather be rewarded for your efforts? Even if you set it on vibration with the intent to annoy a dog into doing whatever you ask, you're inhibiting learning and using force to get the dog to do what you want. Capturing a behavior so the dog realizes "every time I sit I get an awesome treat" really works so much better. And they're joyful while learning!

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 because information of both yes and no creates faster learning. Why do they create GPS units that tell you when you make a wrong turn? Why not just congratulate you when you are on the right course and ignore everything else? Or perhaps managers should instruct new employees the same way? How long does it take then to get to an end goal? Again, my stance is that the no information does not have to be painful. Stim is a sensation but I also understand many do not see it that way.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc That didn't answer the question. I wouldn't want an employer to "annoy" me to get me to do work. Since I can't explain to my dog that she didn't sit fast enough, when she gets no reward and called forward out of her sit, she knows something wasn't right. So she tries again. Sometimes I use "no reward markers" but they're not annoyances. So why do you feel the need to "annoy" your dog to get his/her attention? Why is your dog not paying attention to you based on voice alone?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 It doesn't have to annoy, but that is a way to use the tool. Sensation or lack of, is information, like a game of hot/cold. It provides feedback to both correct/ not correct. why not voice alone? Audible is more easily missed when under distraction. Physical sensation is near impossible 2 miss. Same thing when my kids are engrossed in a video game, I can call and call for dinner and they do not hear, but if I walk up and tap on shoulder they look around "huh, you say something mom?"

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc But following this train of thought it still makes no sense. You walk up to your children and tap them to get their attention. I do that with my dog on occasion too, but she's learned to listen for my voice because my voice means awesome things. So if you wanted to get your children's attention from a distance (e.g. they're at the park playing with friends and you want to call them to come home), how do you do it? Do you put a shock collar on them too?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 I require my kids to keep their cell phone with them. It is my way to reach out and touch them when needed. As for the collar on kids comment I take that as beneigth our level of conversation, but I'll continue on..dogs are not kids, etc. However, I have worn an e-collar on my neck to make my point about using it to reach out and get attention, at a presentation I did for CAPPDT in May. I can discuss this more if you like or if you know someone who attended, ask them about it.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc It's not beneath our level of conversation if you yourself compared dog training to getting your kid's attention. I wonder what parents did before cells. I mean, if they can't call their kids from across the park, what are they going to do? Walk up to them? Oh wait. That sort of makes sense. I'm not really putting much stock in someone putting it on herself in such a way. I put one on myself too. It ranged from rather uncomfortable to painful and it wasn't at the highest level.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 fair comment. I did bring up the analogy. Sometimes I am edgy cause I get a good amount of hate, name calling and threats sent my way..the abuse/kids stuff is used often..thought we might be heading down that path...Have you ever had e-stim (TENS Unit) at a chiropracter? In my opinion a decent e-collar feels exactly the same. There are 3 levels, too low (can't feel), too high (makes me jump) just right. I attempt to use the e-collar with the same thought process.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc I have not used a TENS unit...thankfully I have no back problems! But I did ask someone with a high quality e-collar a handful of years ago if they could put it on my and try it out. Not because I wanted to use one, but because I wanted to understand why other people did, if they really didn't hurt as it seemed they would. I just cannot fathom using such a thing unless it were in the direst of circumstances. But to train basic behaviors? There are other ways to do it.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 I have never said there aren't other ways. Never. I do believe this is a valid tool though and I believe a person can have wonderful results with minimal stress and no "ticking time bomb" as some might say. I also believe it is quick results, which often times, like it or not...the public wants or they WILL give up on their dog.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc I do agree that, unfortunately, the public often wants quick results. But there are plenty of ways to get quick results without resorting to any sort of force or compulsion. I trained my dog to do so many things so quickly with nothing more than my voice, a hand signal, and a reward. And while I don't think every dog will be a "ticking time bomb" if trained using shock collars, I do think some will be. And why create the potential for that problem?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 If I felt I was creating a potential for that problem, I would not do what I do. I believe I am providing education about something most people don't understand. (that is not meant to point at you) I mean most people assume put the collar on the dog & punish when he/she is "bad". I am trying to get word out about alternative ways for those who chose an e-collar. Thank you for this polite discussion. I appreciate that. As I said, I get a lot of hate and some down right slander me.

[badtrainersgoaway]

@ThatsMyDogInc Your condescending comments show how much contempt you have for others. Shameful!

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@badtrainersgoaway Shame on me for being condescending toward someone who BRAGS about causing people to lose their job?..and you don't believe in using punishment? Really?

[MsBmm13]

@ThatsMyDogInc If you are apply something that is annoying (even if you are saying it is not painful for that particular dog), that is still positive punishment. You have apply the annoying thing in order to take it away, so you are still using P+ and R-. You are also counterconditioning the shock in order to minimize the fallout of using positive punishment- okay. If you follow the R- with food, the removal of the shock can most certainly still be a reward marker...just like a clicker.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 you are on to many of the things I think about in this note...yes removal of sensation marks yes/correct. What IF I am conditioning a response to a sensation (I know that is very hard to consider for someone that may be anti-stim) but for a moment try a paradigm shift..what if the sensation is only "weird", "unusual" what if it doesn't hurt in anyway, but is weird. There is some stress with weird, but can be overcome quickly just as with conditioning to other equipment or new events.

[MsBmm13]

@ThatsMyDogInc - But here is the kicker- If you countercondition the shock fully (to lessen the behavior fallout of the p+), you no longer have a punisher...you have more of a reward marker. If you stop feeding the food after the shock, you will not fully countercondition the punisher so it will still act like a punisher and you still run into the possible behavior fallout of using P+.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 but you can turn it up to a level that is pretty uncomfortable if there is a need for punishment. That is part of the versatility of the tool. Fortunately when training the way that I do, that is very rarely needed, which again...is why I am trying to educate on alternative thinking/using this tool.

[MsBmm13]

@ThatsMyDogInc Whether the punisher is "weird or unusal" is not the issue. You will still have fallout from "lower grades" of punishers.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 I still don't look at it as just a punisher...but we've gone around about that and will have to agree to disagree.....thus I don't see the fallout. I've done this for quite a long time and litterally 1000's of dogs. If there was real fallout I would of been run out of the small community I live in a long time ago. Nor would my services be sought out by some fairly high level places who would have a great deal to risk if their dogs were left messed up.

[MsBmm13]

@ThatsMyDogInc I must say your conversation has been relatively pleasent. We can agree to disagree, that's fine. But if you are applying the shock to stop a behavior and removing the shock to reinforce a behavior, you are using a punisher (application of the shock) which lends itself to behavior fallout. This is science. If it fits the definition, you can't deny it. If you were using a humane heirachy, as trainers should, p+ should be the last thing to use not the first.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Thank you. I do my best to treat people respectfully. My dad taught me that. :-) Science has not proven that the way that I use this tool causes a fallout. Since I have done it nearly 10 year and many, many dogs in this small community...I just don't believe that there is fallout. The opposite has been the effect. People flock here, even from far away because they have heard what I achieve. (please don't take that as boastful, it is just true) ...more to come but youtube limits space..

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Science's purpose is to "prove" or "disprove" theories. It is not uncommon at all to find science that has supported theory/s of the persons who came up with the study. (we can look at how fast "food science" changes for example of that! lol) Therefore it would not be difficult at all to proof fallout from e-training if that is what someone wanted to prove. Using the collar in a way to cause problems can be easily done...no arguement from me on that.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Have you looked at my other videos? Specifically the one just titled: Remote collar

[MsBmm13]

When I'm using food to acclimate to a head halter I am counterconditioning the dog to the head halter. If you are using the "shock" as a punisher, why would you counter condition it? Why wouldn't you just use a lower setting? If you reward after the shock, the dog has some expectation that he will get rewarded. So why wouldn't you just use another tool such as a sound?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 Hi, I am not using "shock" as a punisher.

[sequoyahbean]

Deaf dogs can be trained using a VIBRATING collar with NO shock settings. It is not acceptable to shock a dog to train it.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@sequoyahbean I understand that some feel e-stim is unacceptable. However, that is an opinion & personal choice, nothing more. In 2010 there were well over 3M sold in North America and that is just among a few of the top companies. I'd say many people do find the tools acceptable. However, it is my opinion that many do not know how to use it in the fashion I am demonstrating (but there are others like me, thank goodness) so we need MUCH more massive education programs. The tool isn't the problem

[MsBmm13]

You can countercondition an aversive stimulation with treats, but why bother? You can use a sound that carries a longer distance (like a whistle) if you need need to do work at that much of a distance. I worry about the morals of someone who would choose to use an aversive even if it's counterconditioned to be a reward marker.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@MsBmm13 HI, I am not counter-conditioning stim to be a reward marker (although I am sure it could be done if that was the objective) Why use treats to acclimate a dog to anything (ex:head halter)? Food lessens any possible negative reaction/counter conditions the animals response to it. Later when used as an invisible leash to gain attention (yes; stim CAN be just attention getting and not painful) there is no surprise or negative effect. The dog's first learning experience is return = food.

[lillytimelord]

Sorry there is no way of using a e collar and making it a Positive reinforcement. Between all the studies done with e collars and the damage they do, if this was a highly selective dog you would have a mess on your hands. And the fact that you can not see can't see the avoidance behaviors this dog displays (ducking away, body suddenly sinking down a bit, tail halting in its wag, etc, tells me that you need to go back and update your education. There was no need for using this collar.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@lillytimelord Hi. Have you read the Hannover 2008 study? I've trained 1000s of dogs with e-collars, wide variety of personalities, breeds etc. It is how the collar is used that matters most. I am guessing you hate e-collars, which is fine, personal choice. But they do have a place and like them or not millions of people buy them every year. It is time people start having a better understanding how to use them in the least evasive way.

[badtrainersgoaway]

@ThatsMyDogInc - Who funded the Hannover Study? RSC or another pro-e-collar org? You can't throw studies around and think people are going to think it is the gospel? I am just a dog owner and - well - I already got a trainer fired from a petstore for her methods - so I would do it again..... for anyone who thinks it is allright to use electric shock on a dog?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@badtrainersgoaway Congrats on having someone lose their job, something to be proud of for sure. :-( I don't know who funded it. Perhaps you can find out. I believe it was a dissertation paper. I believe you started the idea of throwing studies around as gospel in your first comment here, I was just asking your take on that one in comparison to the ones you seem to have read?

[badtrainersgoaway]

Yes, I do pride myself for getting rid of a bad trainer. if you lived near me - I would do the same to you. All dogs anywhere do not deserve bad trainers who can't come up with better ways to train then to reach for a "e-collar?" or remote collar and say it will be seen by the dog as a good thing?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@badtrainersgoaway .....just approving this comment for public record.

[badtrainersgoaway]

@ThatsMyDogInc Every dog owner needs to do their homework when deciding to hire a trainer. Yes,, that is what we do - we hire you to help us train our family pet. If we do not like your methods - we have the right to find a better trainer.... Not quite sure what your comment is trying to insinuate?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@badtrainersgoaway Agreed, people should do their homework when making a choice of who to work with. I offer 30 minutes of my time for free to anyone who wishes to come visit and discuss. An in person opportunity to see and decide for themselves. There is no obligation and no high pressure. They decide. Re: the comment, you're words were "I do pride myself for getting rid of a bad trainer. if you lived near me - I would do the same to you." I'm told keeping record of such words is a good idea.

[lillytimelord]

@ThatsMyDogInc I am sorry however, I am a dog trainer myself, and i tend to get cases from trainers who uses these collars or owners and the dog is a mess. Everything you are training for can be and has been trained with out a e collar. There is a reason why many countries are outlawing these type of collars. And there is a heck of more studies against the e collar and outline the massive issues with them than pro shock collars.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@lillytimelord I don't disagree that some trainers or jqp can use them horribly. But it is a fact that they are VERY popular tools available on the mass market to pretty much anyone...my opinion is than lets at least teach people a better way to use them rather than frustration and blast the crap out of a dog. I also understand there are philosophical differences about training and some may NEVER want to use an e-collar. That is a choice I understand and respect, but it isn't everyone's choice. 

[taylormadeNo1]

People are so rediculous! You can't really be that concerned she is using a collar. Seriously. This IS one of the MOST effective ways to train a dog. Absolutely no harm done. The dogs tail is wagging...that should tell you something.

[BuffaloDogTraining]

@PipaLee Many dogs put their paw up when they really want something, such as a ball. lick lipping: of course! she's giving him food! Taking calming signals out of context doesn't help at all. Great job Robin.

[BuffaloDogTraining]

@PipaLee Many dogs put their paw up when they really want something, such as a ball. lick lipping: of course! she's giving him food! Taking calming signals out of context doesn't help at all.

[goodsouthernboy12345]

Hey, thanks for your video. I've been considering using the e-collar/treats with my GSD to get his attention back on me when other dogs are around. tips?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@goodsouthernboy12345 The first step is finding a level that the dog perceives..establishing a working level for the environment you are in. (start out in a area free of distractions/other dogs) Then add the rewards (treats, praise, toy etc) as soon as the dog gives you the attention you want. Add in distractions as the dog understands. If poss find a pro in your area for some coaching. If not, you can check out my training dvd's Just Right Training 1 & 2. Both are on my website, ThatsMyDog

[badtrainersgoaway]

@ThatsMyDogInc If you need to get your dogs attention again.... I would suggest throwing the remote collar away and getting back to reading about dogs behavior.... there are many really good experts out there who will really teach you how to get your dogs attention..... my favorites are Dr. Patricia McConnell, Dr. Daniel Estep, Dr. Suzanne Hetts, Dr. Ian Dunbar..... The thought of shocking a dog - ugh - is criminal.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@badtrainersgoaway I've studied techniques from many you recommend. And admire much of their work. I understand there are those who do not believe in remote collars and those who would not choose to use them. While I respect others for their personal chose. I believe remote collars do have a place and therefore it is important to learn to use them in a proper way which includes understanding early collar conditioning exercise such as one demonstrated here.

[jktcz]

so why not just use a clicker?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@jktcz For one, the clicker won't cover any where near the distance that a remote collar can. When the dog is out 50 yards or 200 yards, it is attached to him, also works if he is deaf.

[crysania4]

@ThatsMyDogInc So use a whistle like sheepherders do with their dogs. Works great with them. Also, vibrating collars work great with deaf dogs if you need to have them out a distance away from you. No need for shocking the dog. Why do you feel it's necessary? I find those who use pain simply aren't good enough or creative enough trainers.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@crysania4 Hi. Yes, I've done whistle training as well. Use vib also, although not always for deaf dogs...sometime vib is overwhelming for some. Unfortunately most vib is not adjustable enough for some. Depends on the dog. I don't think of it as "shock" unless used at a startling level to the dog. It is a sensation. How strong or weak depends on the user and physical sensitivity of the dog. The reason for video is to help show those who are interested...in alternative way to use the tool.

[claudiahoyle]

@ThatsMyDogInc you only need a device to control a dog at a great distance because you need something than can punish your dog that far, otherwise "he won't do it", if you learn how to get your dog to do what you want by cooperation you can have nothing and have him do what you want even further than 200 yards...

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@claudiahoyle Hi, In some aspects I agree with you. The e-collar is a way to get the dog to do something when they don't esp want to, particularly useful when off leash. However, I don't agree that is it only +P. If the collar is conditioned FIRST as demonstrated, it takes very little to get a great recall in a short amount of time, even when a dog goes into drive and gives chase.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

what I find really interesting about all the hub-bub over my videos is if I took out the sound and never mentioned the use of the remote collar, I don't believe there is one among you that would realize it or see all this supposed distress. You see all this *horribleness* cause I tell you I'm using a remote collar. Your perception becomes skewed as soon as the tool is mentioned.

[duenorthkennels]

I was at your presentation in Toronto....beautiful communication going on in this video. I just love it.

[polikarpoheritercio]

Is the e-collar effective, of course. Go out and try to e-collar yourself !

[fetterArsch]

People that use electro shocks on dogs, shouldn't own a dog! Get a stuffed toy or a robot instead! To remote controll an living animal with shocks (=pain)is simply disgusting!

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@fetterArsch I do understand that the idea creates a lot of emotion in people and it is easy to think that

the e-collar can only be "painful". When they were first introduced on the market 50+ years ago they were pretty primitive electronics (like most!) but things have changed and as you can see from the video clip the dog is happy, wagging his tail and responding very nicely. We all welcome to our opinions on what we see though. Cheers!

[fetterArsch]

@ThatsMyDogInc Then I ask you, WHY do people react so sensitive at this? So there must be something wrong using such methods!

The fact is E-collars are still very painful, that's why they work so good. And tail wagging doesn't always mean happiness, the dog can wag his tail even if he is in fear or pain, he just does it to please you. He doesn't know that you are the person who cause pain!

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@fetterArsch I think people respond very strongly because we all love our dogs and for those who have little or no actually experience with how to train properly with a remote collar it seems unthinkable to use something that is electronic. I suspect most of us have a deep rooted fear of electricity, we were taught it from the time we were young. I understand it is a big paradigm shift to learn how the e-collar can be used this way and not painfully. I do appreciate our conversation though.

[DestructionFilmsINC]

@ThatsMyDogInc answer this then, I want so see you make a video where you use the level you use for your dogs and put the collar against your neck.

And tell me it doesnt hurt.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@DestructionFilmsINC If I did make a video of it, I'd be accused of faking it, not turning the collar on or not using at the same level. However, I did do such a demonstration live at the CAPPDT conference in Toronto in May. Wore the receiver on my neck, gave transmitter to the audience and had them use it to get my attention for asking questions. Level generally was 10 - 15 points higher than what my dog responds to. 100 + witness were at that event.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@DestructionFilmsINC and No, it did not hurt. Stimulation need not hurt in order to gain attention. Stimulation from a TENS unit (which is virtually identical in technology) does not hurt, but there is really no way to ignore it when used at the level of the recipients tactile perception.

[mizxou]

@ThatsMyDogInc sorry but if you can't train with a collar you're not a real trainer, just lazy

[shatteringglass]

@mizxou

that's the dumbest argument i ever heard.

[mizxou]

@ThatsMyDogInc sorry but if you can't train without a collar you're not a real trainer, just lazy

[ironclownxx]

@fetterArsch You are a fool and do not understand dogs. A dog that constantly runs toward the road whenever it gets loose shouldn't learn to avoid the road with a shock collar? A dog with a broken pelvis or dead is apparently better than one who gets shocked a few times over the course of a month to learn not to do something. You don't understand anything. You hear "shock" and think OMFG THEY ARE TORTURING IT! My dog used to chase cats and kill them, he doesn't anymore thanks to a shock collar.

[nopiluvin]

I have a siberian husky and his attention is very very hard to grasp. I understand that huskies are this way by nature, but would you promote using a shock collar on him? He listens and does commands such as sit, laydown, shake, knuckles, wait, stay but the big one that he does NOT do is come on command. I don't want him to run away which is a common thing for huskies if not leashed. This is where I am on the lines of getting a shock collar for him.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@nopiluvin We have many huskies that we have successfully trained on e-collars. A recall is fairly simple to teach and reliabiiity can be achieved in a relatively short amount of time. If you choice to get a remote collar do some research and invest in one that gives you versatility in levels and get help learning how to do the collar conditioning and teaching the basic commands. You may be able to find a pro in your area by checking my website for a list of graduates from my trainers program.

[quintess20]

@ guy2932 - Why take the risk that a dog would be LESS sensitive to an audible- visual cue only when out in places with tons of unpredictable distractions that could cause the dog to get in dangers way? all anti-ecollar ppl are completely ignorant about the values of modern humane uses. these are very same trainers who say don't say "come" if you think your dog won't come. I don't know this trainer but I know that what she's doing is sound and correct application of science and learning.

[quintess20]

The electrical stimulus is NOT an aversive in this video. For anyone who wants to totally understand what the hell an aversive stimulus is in the first place before they begin a debate, read Vol 3 of Applied Dog Behavior & Training. The chapter on electronic collars ends with a note that it is up to creative trainers using positive reinforcement to change the way e-collars have formerly been used (as an aversive to cause escape / avoidance behaviors)

[guy2932]

If it is not an aversive then why not use an audible cue? Why take the risk that the dog may be more sensitive than you think? I understand a tap on the shoulder but what does the dog make of this strange sensation? More importantly to me, why would someone with your obvious skills recommend this tool which will undoubtedly be used by less skilled lay people. The way you describe you are using it here is not the usual use for these collars and is not the reason most will purchase one.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@guy2932 I do add in an audible cue (unless the dog is deaf) by pairing the verbal w/tap there is greater success in getting attention. Just like touching a distracted child (ex.playing video games) while telling them to come for dinner works better than repeating and repeating. The physical sensation is harder to tune out than the voice alone. As to why, teach what I do? Because education is needed to help people learn a better way. I hope to create a paradigm shift and help more people & dogs

[guy2932]

Hello again. I'm afraid I still just don't get what you're doing. You are making a positive association with an aversive stimulus but later on will use the same aversive as negative reinforcement? Any good association will be lost? Why not have a verbal cue for what you're doing now and save the collar for the negative?

[ThatsMyDogInc]

@guy2932 It is my opinion that you don't understand it because you are convinced the stimulus is aversive. What if from the dog's perspective it is only a sensation? What if it is a vibration? Is it aversive then? What if it is a level 2 out of 127? What if it is a tone? What you can not seem to let go of is the thought that stimulation may not be painful or aversive to the dog. Is a tap on the shoulder aversive or is it merely a sensation that is hard to ignore because it is physical contact?

[n3mpw]

well this is helpful.

[ThatsMyDogInc]

Hello pamelamarxsen, Thanks for the good question. The value of using the collar is that you can then use this cue/prompt when the dog is off leash. The positive introduction creates a good early association with the stimulation and carries over into later training. You can also balance out the training with negative reinforcement later as needed to create a very reliable off leash recall (that stands up to high distraction) in a very short amount of time. (a week or two usually).

[pamelamarxsen]

Why use the collar if you can teach those same things with about 5 minutes of work without a shock collar???

[vendov]

Great video Robin. I have been useing mine as a negative till now. Always at very low levels but my dogs still see it as a negative. Makes you thinks.Thanks

[MagicDawgsRo]

Great video Robin! Keep up the great work you are doing!