Added: 2 years ago
From: Kisk79
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  • i prefer my kopis or my grossemesser or even the gldius but thats just me :)

  • I was so sure that the groove in the middle of the sword was called a blood trench which is a whole that lets the blood out when the point pierces the guy, but his explanation makes sense too.

  • @Roflelf That's actually a myth.

  • What did he say at 0:42?

  • @aaudi6365 He said "Maciejowski Bible".

  • this man really likes swords... i mean he REALLY likes them. quite understandible too.

  • the metal in that era would not have been as strong as it is today. since we use much more complicated methods to making our steel or iron or w/e metal. if this was possible then maybe they did know of some way to make there swords stronger/sharper in that time period.

  • is it just me, or is it annoying as hell how everyone instanly think's they're the leading authority when people start swinging swords around?

  • go guns boo sowrds

  • So why did they not have to pattern weld anymore? Did they just pour molten metal in a form and it was stronger and more flexible than a pattern welded blade? And when was this achieved?

  • @Oracurax The true blast furnace came into play, and made steel that was significantly stronger and better than pattern welded steel (which is used to make impure steel, less impure). With the blast furnace, this tedious process didn't need to be done.

    As for when this was achieved, the Chinese were using it in the 5th century BC. Something close to a blast furnace appears in Spain in the 8th century AD, but a true blast furnace (like that used in China) only starts to appear around 1100 AD.

  • @Kisk79 Did this make weapon smithing easy? No need to hammer or temper the metal? And when did they start making weapons like this for real?

  • @Oracurax They'd still have to hammer and temper the metal. It's not a casting process, it's a smithing process to get iron ore into bars. And the Chinese were making weapons with blast furnace steel/iron from the 5th century BC.

  • @Kisk79 I see. They just didn't have to use different types of bars and twist them together anymore?

  • @Oracurax Exactly. It was a way to get better quality steel/iron without the painstaking process of pattern welding. Wikipedia has a fairly good article about the blast furnace, so if you want to find out more about it, you should look it up.

  • @Oracurax here's an analogy to compare the japanese and european techniques: Imagine the steel is a lump of clay. In japanese tamahagane steel, that clay consists of a lot of small blocks of black clay, and lots of blocks of white clay. All the folding is done to knead the peices together into a pretty even grey block, before shaping into a blade. The european medieval steel is a bigger block of even(ish) grey to begin with, but still needs all the work to shape the block into a blade still.

  • this is an kicc-ass series thanks. if it wasn't for youtube and exercise(and beer) my two cute little runts would have driven me nuts with word world,spongebob etc. please keep the sanity coming i love historical docs

  • 0:33................those helmets were Cleft by the standard heavy broadsword! its more heavy than the later pointy type armor-chainmail piercing blades..........a standard braodsword does not pierce, it pulverizes!!

  • Maciejowski Bible isn't read with english J! It should be more Matseyovsky.

  • facial expressions win

  • Swords werent designed to attack clay xD

  • are those albions?

  • Rome was pretty great... But they lost to the Parthians and other forces that were much more mobile. Japanese at the time of the Romans, they would certainly be defeated. Chinese, not so much (essentially China had the same kind of infantry as Rome, but much more mobile, and they had a better cavalry element.)

    And Europe... Brennus sacked Rome. I don't think that the "genius" of Rome was able to best him.

  • @Kisk79 gotta ruin my fun dontcha? ;P

  • @Kelvarra then why did Rome get their asses kicked by german barbarians in teutoburg forest?

  • not to be rude or anything but i lol'd at the face he makes when he hits the clay from 4:45 to 4:52

  • That is one well-constructed helm. Maybe the illustrations are meant to convey that the sword punctured the head elsewhere, but the artist didn't know the nature of the actual combat.

  • @smellincoffee

    i have no knowledge of the craftsmanship of either sword or helms, but are they sure that the periods matched up? it's possible that during the time they depicted that, helms simply were not good enough to stop a solid swing, while more modern helms laugh at the very thought of being "cleft in twain"

  • I really really hate all this comparing between japan or china and medieval europe. I'm working at my master in history and archaeology and the first thing I learned is, that you can not compare something so far away both in time and distance. Everything has to be seen in context.

  • There are up to several hundred years between tha katana and the different european swords.

    Then the katana or the earlier dachi was the ideal weapon to confront japanese armour and japnese warfare. The european swords were ideal for their battles and targets. Oh and btw. the mainweapon of samurai was the bow till the 15th century.

  • And you have to consider the almost 2000 years of weapon-development during the roman occupation which direcly influenced early medieval weapons and armour. The equipment shown on the carpet of bauyeux (how ever the place is spelled, sry to lazy to check it now) is in its desing identical to the stuff used by legions ind the third or fourth century AD. Helmets with nasal protection chainmail, to the knee with long sleeves, big shield, long swords (spata) and the lance (hasta)

  • so please please please stop comparing things, which nobody with some education in historic research would compare. Though it is fun to talk about this in bars, it is nothing for serious discussion. If you want to compare, try japanese and korean weapons during early edo-period.

    Or arabic and european weapons and tactics during the first three crusades. or maybe shibuilding techniques during the middle ages...

  • @JulesWiiind

    as much as i would like the japanafiles to stop, I'm going to have to refute the idea that not all things can be compared. once you find a way to normalize data, your can pretty much put anything up against each other side by side. the only fuzzy variable is the wielders skill in their respective weapon, armour, and tactics.

    the larger the comparison, the more variables, the more work that needs to be done, but it is still possible. the question is. why? who the ruddy hell cares?

  • Agreed, and nearly all weapons were great at what they were designed to do... Kill people. As morbid as that sounds.

    There is no "best" weapon, much like there is no "best" kind of music, or movie genre, or whatever else someone wants to say is "the best". It's simply just personal preference.

  • so woot is from india,^_^ lol!!!(it was in asia)

    tamahagane is purely from japan dude,.. its superb,..

  • Yes, Wootz is an Asian steel. And stop with the tamahagane, it is nothing compared to modern steels made with the refining process we have today.

    Even Han dynasty swords made with the blast furnace, from about 1500 years before the samurai in Japan are much better than pattern welded steels.

  • @Kisk79 modern steel? if you see the 5 part vid, they say that a modern still that was made through machine was like a katana 600 years ago,. they already mastered the structure of steel and iron,... like how high tech machine do it this days,.

  • Then they're telling you lies. Steel from 600 years ago is in no way comparable to modern steels. It simply cannot.

    To say that it does defies all logic.

  • @Kisk79 dude there is no prove that it is a lie and all thay say are according to facts, they are professionals,. and its on history channel,.

  • There is proof that it's a lie. The History Channel is known to not always show things which are true. Take for example the documentary 1421: The Year China Discovered the World.

    That's a bunch of BS if you ask any self respecting historian. Yet the guy who speaks about it claims to be a professional historian.

    Professional means one thing and one thing only... You get paid to do what you do. It should not take on connotations that it implies something is greater than it is.

  • If one is going to say the Katana is best, then they might as well say the Chinese Dao is best, or the Turko Mongol saber is best. Since those weapons were developed and perfected well before the Katana ever came onto the scene.

    The katana is good at cutting, but likewise so is a Chinese Dao, and a Turko Mongol Saber, and a Grosse Messer, and a Chinese Jian, and almost any sword is good at cutting.

  • A curved sword is easier to cut with, but to say straight swords cannot perform just as well, one would have to be blind to even assume such a thing.

  • kisk79, this testingpointer character saying "and its on history channel" reminds me of robert di nero in wagging the dog when he says of the fake albanian war, "ofcourse its real i saw on tv."

    also he could just have misunderstood the doc, if english is a second language he'll clearly have problems comprehending its subtleties like use of conjecture, implications, declaritives and subjectives.

    on top of all that the history channel is pretty poor wright wing rubbish.

    oh and thanx 4 the vids

  • sorry to break the "japan is greatest" illusion you have, but I'm afraid the reality is very different.

    Japanese metallurgy was primitive, the folding of steel a process used in europe 1000+ years earlier, and long-abandoned by the 15th C.

    Where japan did excel was in truly superb finish of metalwork.

    Japanese steel was not "as good as modern" or anything of the sort. I'm afraid almost everything you've said is utter nonsense.

    they're beautiful, but were technologically outclassed.

  • dude im not speaking for my self,. im speaking from what books i've read, i also love medival swords,.. since the first time ive heard the Excalibur, but the katana drags me out of it when i read its history,... peace,.^_^V

  • @suzerain01 Much is made of the tremendous effort and skill that goes into the smelting and forging of Japaneese swords. What many people fail to realise is: they wouldn't have gone to all that effort if they didn't HAVE to. You get very poor iron ore in Japan, mostly in the form of iron-rich sand, and master smiths would spend months working the very best of the steel into swords of surpreme quality. The Katana was the symbol of the Samurai because on one else could afford one.

  • @suzerain01 Very true. Japanese metalworking is an example of how things never advance and become stagnant very quickly.

  • @suzerain01 - With another year and a half of study behind me, and I would alter my wording if I could. "primitive" is a loaded term, inappropriate to describe japanese *or* dark age metallurgy - there is nothing crude, simple or ignorant about the process of folding, or the processs of pattern-welding.

    And of course, folding of steel in blademaking was an integral part of forgework until the 17th C in europe and the Bessmer process. So, in hindsight, I used a misleading phrase. My apologies.

  • @suzerain01 Totally agree, it's interesting to note that one of the reasons why the Japanese sword smiths originally settled on the now famous "Katana" everybody knows, was the inability to forge and smith double-edged blades

  • @suzerain01 Japanese swords great for cutting, But If i were in a fight, I'd take an Euro sword because I like to be able to parry, and when you do that with a japanese sword, things starts to go wrong. Starting with your sword snapping.

  • Katanas still the best? Try using them on the thick Greek hoplite shield and see if it could cut it in two.

  • do eny one know hwer mike loades got that sword thet he used on hes helmet

  • katanas are still the best..

  • Katanas are a great weapon, but there is no such thing as "the best" weapon. For what it was designed for, it does it's job well. For what every weapon was designed for, it does it's job well.

    Though I'm not exactly sure why people say certain weapons are better than others. Weapons are meant to kill people, and they did exactly that.

  • actually thats not may word,.. it was said by the historians in royal armory^_^,...

  • Source?

  • yeah,. legitimate source, they say that katana was the most sophisticated sword in the world and second to the most sharp blade in the world, the first is scalpel (or surgical knife)..

    and thay say that only katana has the ability to take the soul of the owner and be part of the sword,.

    and they cannot explain that,

    its kinda weird but thats what they found in the katanas history,

  • Source as in where did you find it. I can make up some baloney and say the Royal Armour said it, but without providing the information as to where I read such a thing, what I said is moot.

    And the Katana is not the most sophisticated sword in the world. And definitely not the sharpest.

    Also, a katana taking the soul of it's owner... Bunch of BS that is.

    Either you're making what you said up, or the Royal Armoury doesn't know what they're talking about.

  • i found it on a book buddy(on a bookstore when we're on a field trip^_^),. and look online about katana history i think you can found it also here on youtube,...

    i also read the katanas are build from more than 4k layers of thin steel and iron on the inside,. i dont really know how it looks like but thats how they describe a real katana built 600 years ago or 500 i think,.

  • And Viking era swords had about 10,000 layers of steel. The folding process is not unique to Japan. In fact it was used because of the poor quality of Japanese steel. Folding it made it less likely to break because the impurities were spread out throughout the sword rather than concentrated in one area.

  • @Kisk79 poor quality of japanese steel? dude real katana is made of tamahagane, and iron dust only found in a few place in the world,..(i cant remember where exactly) one more thing^_^ search the "How to make samurai katana swords" here in youtube,. you will see it,. even the royal armory i read in the book was also here, but not the historians i read^_^

    you will see the difference between katana and medival sword,.

  • No, real katanas are made with any kind of steel available. Only master smiths used Tamahagane, and only smiths who have a considerable amount of money. Tamahagane is expensive and only made a few times a year. But even still, compared to European iron, there is many more impurities in tamahagane.

    The Japanese smithing process isn't even unique to Japan. Celts in the 8th Cent. BC were using the same smithing process. It's only used to make poor steel into not so poor steel.

  • You want to know what a good steel is compared to tamahagane? Look up wootz.

  • @Kisk79 there is no impurity in tamahagane,. ofcourse they choose the best,.. thats why they can only make few sword in a big tamahagane,. because they only use the pure one, the best,...

    a katana made of tamahagane is only few in the world,. and thats what make it awesome,.. its like a limited edition product that only few people can have,.. thats what make real katana very valuable,.

  • Yes there is impurities in tamahagane. That is why they use the pattern welding process, to remove impurities and slag. However a sword made using the blast furnace is much more superior to one that is pattern welded.

    A real katana is one that works, not one that is made of tamahagane.

    I like the katana, I like all weapons actually. But to say one is better than the other... That is foolishness.

  • @Kisk79

    That part about the katana owner's soul is part of the spiritual aspect, something an outsider cannot determine is correct or not.

  • Maybe, but regardless of whether or not you can determine it is moot. Any sword can take on the soul of the owner. This doesn't make it better or worse.

  • Mike Loades is to Ancient weapon documentaries as Steve Irwin were to Nature docus.

  • haha its funny to see his face as he strikes the clay

  • I love falchions 8D

  • Hahaha "swords weren't made to attack clay."

  • why is it people think scimitars look like falchions?

  • because falchions were modeled after the scimitar

  • Scimitars were developed long after the falchion, this sword was inspired by the seax knife.

  • And scimitars were based on the Chinese Dao, which was a falchion-like sword before it became popular in Europe. The Scimitar was brought to the Middle East and Central Asia by the Turks and Mongols.

  • Nonono.

    They were modeled on a hybrid fusion of axe and sword for combating mail armour :)

  • It would be interesting to see the sword after the hits on the Helmet xD

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