no disrespect to kobe bcuz hes is up there with jordan but cmon people jordan in my eyes will always be the the g.o.a.t hands down to this day i still hope he will come back lol
Jordan has 3 great advantages over Kobe (Phil Jackson)
1) Leaping Ability: Jordan's vertical leap in his last season as a Bull equals to Kobe's in his rookie season.
2) Hands: Jordan's 10 inch are the biggest ever for a guard, and equals the hand size of Wilt Chamberlain!
3)Strength/Speed: Jordan's shoulder frame is one of the most ridiculous ever for a player his size. Also, he ran 4.3 seconds in 40 yard dash as a college student, and possibly could have won a gold medal in the Olympics.
@drzgeneral13 I'm glad you rank Jordan 1 as so many analysts do but Kobe is top 5. I'll tell you why. Jordan dominated the era of HOF big men when championship teams had dominant big men. Jordan won without a dominant 7 footer while dominating the centers of his time. Kobe had great big men play in his time as well (timmy, aging shaq, dwight) but not quite the level of the era of big men in the 80s and 90s. Kobe is great but his efficiency in this era of considerably weaker big men is arguable.
but kobe's fans sure know better than Pat Riley!! They also know better than Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, George Karl,Jerry Sloan, their own coach (Phil Jackson), Bill Russel, Jerry West, even Kobe himself and pretty much every professional basketball player and coach before Jordan's time, during Jordan's time and nowdays even!
@henrimart7 I'm a hugeee Kobe/Laker fan too but in all honesty: MJ was undoubtedly better than Kobe. Although, its quite important to point out that Kobe is just as clutch, but he does not impact the game & the players as well as MJ did.
@henrimart7 And that's why we think you're delusional. They're not BOTH the best, Michael Jordan is. All you have to do is look at their stats. MJ leads Kobe in almost every statistical category, played in an era of hand checking and physical defense and took two years off in his prime. It's not even close, really.
@VinmanMJ23 Kobe has to play against much bigger and much more athletic SGs Michael mostly played against SGs around 6'3, Kobe can shoot over smaller players with extreme efficiency.
@henrimart7 Nope, not true at all.According to SI and ESPN, the average height for PG today is 6'2" and SG is 6'5" - and that average has actually decreased by about 1/4 inch over the last 10 years.The trend in the 80s and 90s was for bigger guards, smaller forwards and bigger centers.Today the trend is for smaller guards, bigger forwards and smaller centers - to the point that it's like having 2 PFs and no C.And the words "Kobe" and "efficiency" never belong together.
@gf4670 keep dreaming dude... you,ve watch a video of pat riley saying there will never be anyone better than MJ and yet u say kobewho and MICHAEL JORDAN are both the best?aint that a laugh huh... keep dreaming! dont ever wake up coz if u do you'll go back to reality... MIKE IS LIGHTYEARS AWAY!
@henrimart7 I have no problem that you or any others love Kobe, but please, do some researches before you put ignorant comment on youtube.
You can't just put a comment on the net against other players sheerly by YOUR IMPRESSIONS. the mid 80s to the 90s, in short the Michael Jordan era, the players' average height is higher than today's, the 2000s; I thought it's a common sense.
Yes I respect his game. I watch him play everytime their on tv. I've never said that he's not a great talent, only that his fans overrate him when comparing him to MJ.
But for those who are fans of other players and who also respect the history of the game (many of them young), when they see kobe's fans making disparaging & ignorant remarks about their favorite player & MJ of ALL people, it makes it that much EASIER for them to start disliking & disrespecting him.
I get SO MANY personal messages from fans of past & present players (young & old alike), who literally THANK ME for standing up for the legends. They tell me all the time how they're SICK OF kobe's fans and don't care for him due to the constant disrespectful and ignorant comments made by his fans.
This is what has rubbed other fans the WRONG way. I get TONS of personal messages "thanking me" for posting the factual info about kobe.
@RealFan357 are you kidding me -_- without lebron fans starting this whole damn thing there would be no kobe fans its LEBRONS FANS who are worst he hasent done anything nor had the time to and there trying to say hes better than a legand gtfo here lebron said kobes BETTER than himself. mj said kobes BETTER than lebron. so im pretty damn sure kobes better
They make ignorant, disrespectful comments about MJ in relation to kobe, but when introduced to the facts of the matter, they refuse to acknowledge them and will claim that everyone's "hating" as they proceed to try & discredit MJ, his era etc., just to make a more favorable comparison for kobe.
They've CREATED the anti-kobe sentiment by constantly doing this, which makes it EASY to not respect him..
Regardless of HOW MANY MORE TIMES MJ shot than kobe, he CONSISTENTLY was more efficient. So that cancels out any argument that stems from that..
Like I said previously, it only took MJ 841 games to make 10,000 career FGs and 857 games to get to 20,000 career FG attempts. Kobe's ALREADY played 1,035+ games and has ALREADY taken OVER 20,000 career FG attempts, and STILL hasn't made 10,000 career FGs LOL!!
You said kobe "can [easily] avg [30 pts] per season", to which I asked where's he done it? Show it to me to prove it. So now that you see that you can't prove that he did, now you're trying to LOWER the standard to 28-29ppg to railroad what you initially stated LOL!!
And how in the hell is avg'n a "combined" 29ppg over 10 seasons, "more impressive" than someone who LITERALLY avg'd 30ppg "per season"? How fuckin' dumb is that?
You're REALLY DESPERATE & reaching for straws now LOL!!
You wanna play the "combined avg" game and attach the word "impressive" to it? Ok..
Since 1993, a player avg'n over 32ppg has only been done TWICE in a season, and 52% shooting by a player in a season on AT LEAST 20 FG attempts has only been done 5 times by just 2 people, and both were centers (GOAT centers at that), but NO ONE has done BOTH in a season in the last 27 years..
MJ avg'd that for 8 straight seasons and he's a guard!
"The [rules changes] did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [93.2] points per game in the 1998 season to this year's [100 per game]. [Overall FG%] has [increased] from [43%] in 1997-98 to [48.3%] this season. [3-point %] has [gone up] from [.326] 11 years ago to [.367] this season."
-- David Aldridge: "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies"; April 23, 2009
That's a "combined" ppg avg over 5 seasons, but show me what his ppg avg's were at the end of EACH of those 5 seasons...it wasn't 30ppg LOL!!
Quit trying to run game on me kid...I see what you're trying to do.
And any damn way, '05 is the season where the new rules were finalized, and resulted in the Top scorers in the league having a 23% INCREASE in scoring and 4% INCREASE in efficiency, not to mention his apg avg also jumped to about 5 a game.
"With the rule and interpretation [changes], it has become [more difficult] for [defenders] to defend [penetration], cover the [entire] floor on [defensive rotations] and [recover to shooters]. This has [provided more time] for shooters to ready themselves for [quality shots]"
-- Stu Jackson; Exec VP of Basketball Operations: "Rules changes have freed shooters, allowed offenses to soar"; By John Hareas, NBA. com April 10, 2009
This is the Exec VP of Operations saying this LOL!!
"Our [rules] are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for [more] high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today."
-- Stu Jackson, VP of NBA Basketball Operations; "Stu Jackson Presents", NBA . com May 3, 2007
Again, look who's saying this..he helped DESIGN & IMPLEMENT the new rules! He knows what it is LOL!!
This is what has GREATLY aided the scoring & efficiency of guys like kobe
"Every time you get caught you switch over and compare Kobe to MJ"
The initial conversation was about these 2, so what are you talkin' about? I didn't bring up Karl Malone, Elvin Hayes, etc., to avoid answering the initial question..you did.
"Who better compares with Jordan?"
Nobody compares to him when you actually look at the "substance" of his on-court production instead of just the "style" in which others (kobe) mimics.
Now answer my initial question which ONLY involved kobe & MJ, and is what we were talkin' about to begin with: if you say kobe "can" consistently avg 30ppg, please SHOW ME where he's consistently (and consecutively) done so throughout his career to PROVE it.
Don't give me how many times he's "scored" 30 pts in a game or a buncha coulda-shoulda-wouldas about what you think, feel or believe him able to do, SHOW ME where he's consistently DONE IT to PROVE what you say..
Again, just SHOW ME where he's avg'd (not merely scored) 30ppg for more than 3 seasons. Why do you keep avoiding my question? Don't give me coulda-shoulda-wouldas, SHOW ME..just SHOW ME where this is so.
And while your busy making claims about what you THINK he could "easily do", SHOW ME where he's ever avg at least 30ppg, while leading the team to a title.
Oh lemme guess..your answer's gonna be "oh he can easily do that to". And I don't deal in "beliefs", I deal in "knowing".
When it comes to avg'n 30ppg, I don't have to try & make a case for MJ based on what I think, feel or believe he coulda-shoulda-woulda do/done because someone else maybe did/didn't do it, because he actually DID avg 30ppg for his career!
This gives me PROOF that he could avg 30ppg because it's a FACT, and not some opinionated fanboy claim based on what I think..
Hell in the 3 seasons kobe did manage a 30ppg avg, they weren't all done in consecutive seasons, nor did they win a titles!
I'm not talkin' about K. Malone, E. Hayes, Dominique or any of them, I'm talkin' about kobe & MJ.
Again, stop trying to distract people by highlighting what they've done and SHOW ME what kobe's done in relation to your initial claim. You say that he "can" consistently avg 30ppg, well I'm gonna keeping asking the question until you TRUTHFULLY address it.
Don't give me how many times he's scored 30 pts, show me some some consistently & consecutive seasons of him "avg'n" 30ppg..
Stop trying to change the subject..this is about MJ & kobe
Were not talkin' about Shaq, Lebron or anyone else. I don't wanna hear shit about any of them, or how you say they've consistently "scored" 30 pts in a game, I'm talkin' about "avg" 30ppg for multiple seasons at a time on a consistent basis.
Now show this from kobe, and stop trying to change the subject. Show me this from kobe to PROVE what you're saying..
"Why do the three times that he averaged 30ppg not count?"
I didn't say they didn't, but he hasn't CONSISTENTLY done this. That's what I'm getting at.
"Scoring 30 points 500 times is not a good enough point"
Again, SHOW ME where he's consistently avg'd 30ppg for SEASONS at a time consecutively, and I mean for MORE than a few seasons. That'll PROVE what you say about him.
Don't give what you think or believe him able to do, SHOW where he's actually DONE it..
Again: SHOW ME more than 4 seasons from him where he wound up with a 30ppg or higher avg at the end of the season. Just SHOW ME, and that'll end the dispute.
In fact Kareem only avg'd 30+ppg while leading a team to a title 1 time..kobe's NEVER done it. And I shouldn't even have to highlight how many times MJ did it, not to mention the fact that his CAREER avg is 30ppg in the reg season and 33ppg in the playoffs...not for a few seasons, but for his career!
"Do you realize that there has only been two players in NBA HISTORY to average better than 28.4 ppg"
That's not the issue. This is about kobe & MJ. Everytime kobe's fans can't produce the goods to answer a direct question, you try & change the subject.
"you are telling me He cant score 30 consistently"
Well for argument sake: yes. You disagree? Then just show me where he's ever avg'd 30 or more ppg more than 4 times. Not 28ppg..30ppg. Just SHOW ME that and I'll agree with you.
"for the last 10 years Kobe has AVERAGED 28.4 ppg"
So what..that's NOT 30+ppg by anybody's math, and not only that, he can't even manage to MAKE as many shots as MJ while scoring the same amount of pts.
He can't even consistently score 30ppg in THIS ERA with rules designed to make for easier & more efficient scoring for guys like himself.
"If they [couldn't] hand check back in the day, there's some guys that would've been [even better] than they [were]. It would've been [nuts] for the [big-time scorers] & [perimeter] players from the '80s & 90s."
-- Joe Johnson; "NBA's new rule paves way for two steps", Oct 23, 2009
One's pts from their FT's are ALWAYS included into their pt total for that game! And if one wanted to know how many pts came from there, as well as how well (efficient) they shot from there (just like the from the field) regarding that game, all they'd have to do is divide the # of makes by the attempts, and this will tell the reader how efficient or inefficient they were that night..
MJ not only shot consistently shot better from the field, but he scored MORE pts in a lesser amount of games than kobe when you wanna start with the 20K FG attempts & pts scored argument kid..
What the hell do you think FG%'s mean?!!! It tells you how efficient they were in a game or per game!!
You CANNOT be an efficient scorer without any efficient shooting %'s, and the fact that you're trying to separate the 2, just so you can make a favorable comparison for kobe, is TYPICAL of his delusional & fanatical fans who'll go to GREAT lengths, just to elevate him in stature regarding this comparison LOL!!
"Jordan averaged 1.31 points per shot attempt for his career. Kobe has averaged 1.30 points per shot attempt for his career"
Go look at the consistently HIGHER rate of MADE SHOTS MJ had over kobe per game, which led to those pts you're referring to. That tells you who's offensively more efficient.
How can kobe be an efficient scorer, but you can't SHOW US any consistently efficient high rate of shots MADE by him that led to those pts?
No he's not because if he were, he'd consistently have some of the BEST player efficiency ratings (PER) every season, but he doesn't! This is EXACTLY the kinda' ignorance that Neil Paine of basketball-reference . com was talkin' about in his article regarding kobe's fans LOL!!
Just like he said, kobe's NEVER been 1 of the most efficient scorers, only one of its explosive ones. He scores in bunches, but it's not something he efficiently does..
B4 one can score efficiently, you 1st & foremost have to SHOOT efficiently, albeit from the FT line or the field, preferably both LOL!!
Your argument for him WREAKS of immature desperation, and a SERIOUS LACK of perspective. How the hell can you be an efficient scorer & NOT be an efficient shooter?!! That makes NO SENSE whatsoever!
When you total all of his career reg season & playoff sub 42-48% games from his rookie season to 2008, he's been BELOW 40% 1/3 of his career, but you're on here trying to tell me that he's efficient?!!
Consistently shooting 45% for your career is NOT efficient by any stretch of the imagination. It's mediocre!
Do you realize that with just 97 more playoff misses (assuming they get there this year), he becomes the All Time leader in playoff MISSED shots? No efficient scorer has such dubious distinctions!! WTF are you talkin' about?!!
You keep harping on 27,000 pts & 20,000+ FG attempts, well look at his career reg season & playoff FG%'s!!
"So what your saying is that he was 17, 18, 19, and 20 years old"
Cut it with the damn excuses man..
He didn't start to score "like mike" until AFTER the rules changed, as did the rest of the top wing players in today's game & that's a fact, not an opinion. It's not speculation that the top scorers had a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency AFTER the rules changed!
That's not an opinion! That's a FACT!!
You damn kobetards are ALWAYS trying to dismiss the facts..SMH
"he has got to 7th all time and only taken 20,000 shots... WHICH MEANS he got to the line ALOT!"
By volume shooting & again, thank the new rules.
Did he ever lead the NBA in FT makes & attempts B4 this? No..but I can show you were he's done this TWICE as a RESULT of this LOL!! MJ only averaged 10+ FT's TWICE in his entire career. Kobe's avg'd about 9 FT attempts since the new rules, and even has 3 seasons of avg'n 10 FT attempts because of this..
He played the equivalent of almost 4 yrs under the old rules, and couldn't score 40 or 50 pts 1 time. B4 the defensive rules were changed, only 1 active player (Shaq) had a 60+ pt game. After the rules changed, 4 players had one..ALL wing players (Arenas, Kobe, T-Mac & A.I.).
B4 the new rules only 3 wing player were in the Top 10 in scoring. After the rules changed, 11 wing players made up the list for top scorers LOL!!
I guess you think all of this is just coincidence huh?
"The new rules definitely [changed] the game. If we could hand check [now], the game would be [totally different]. If they [couldn't] hand check back in the day, there's some guys that would've been [even better] than they [were]. It would've been [nuts] for the [big-time scorers] & [perimeter] players from the '80s & 90s."
-- Joe Johnson; "NBA's new rule paves way for two steps", Oct 23, 2009
I don't have to manipulate stats. You're just in denial like all kobetards..
"Kobe averaged 28, 25, and 30 ppg in 2000, 2001, 2002... UNDER THE OLD RULES"
SMH..sorry to rain on your parade my delusional friend, but the league started tweeking the rules in 00-01. They just finalized 'em in '05. You really need to go educate yourself kid..
And kobe avg'd MORE mins & shots per game in the reg season & playoffs than Shaq from 1999-04, so don't even try to use that excuse either..
When compared to MJ (which is what the topic is) he's NOT efficient. He's taken 20,000+ career shots & hasn't even MADE 10,000 career shots LOL!! It's YOU doesn't have a clue LOL!! That's NOT efficient by ANY stretch of the imagination!
That's volume shooting!
He's a career 45% shooter, which means he misses 55% of the time and he's even WORSE than that in the playoffs LOL!!
You're deluding yourself, and are just doing what ALL kobetards do when they are pinned by the facts: deny..deny..deny and keep insisting that they're right & ALL of the evidence and those who present it is wrong..SMH
"Kobe would score [3-5] points per game [less] in the [pre-zone days] than nowadays. He would've had a [difficult] time playing his accustomed game when [hand-checking] was a [routine] defensive maneuver. It's [well-known] around the league that his game [suffers] under [physical] pressure. Just the other day, Maurice Evans said: "Kobe doesn't like to be touched."
-- Charley Rosen: "Mailbag: Zones haven't made defenses stingier", Sept 16, 2009
The new rules that FAVORS wing players like him, became official dumb ass! This caused a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency for them!
"Our rules are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for more high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today."
-- Stu Jackson, VP of NBA Basketball Operations; "Stu Jackson Presents", NBA . com May 3, 2007
"kobe is the 2nd most dominant perimeter scorer of all time"
Hahahahahahahahaha****wiping my eyes****that's a good one LOL!!
So the 2nd most dominant perimeter player of all time has played in 1,052+ games & has taken 20,000+ career FG attempts, but hasn't even MADE 10,000 career shots? LOL!!
Get outta here with that nonsense kid. His offensive accolades are MAINLY achievements of VOLUME shooting and nothing more..
Kobe's been takin' MORE SHOTS since '05 (new rules) than at any point B4 hand..
"FG% is not the end all be all"
You're right, eFG% is because it accounts for 3ptrs.
Ages 21-29 eFG%: MJ .524 > KB .484
He's still isn't close to MJ, even with the advantage of the 3ptr & new rules that favors wing players.
In fact if you recalculated kobe's career FG% by removing his career 3pt attempts, it's STILL LOWER than MJ's, even with MJ's 3pt attempts & Wizard seasons included LOL!!
"you said Kobe Bryant is one of the most inefficient scorers of all time"
Here's an example:
It took MJ 841 games to MAKE 10,000 career FG's and by his 857th game, he'd ONLY taken 20,000 career FG attempts.
By kobe's 1,035th game, he'd taken OVER 20,000 career FG attempts and in 1,052 games (and counting), he STILL hasn't made 10,000 career shots and won't do so until sometime around next year or in 2013.
That's why I call him 1 of the most inefficient scorers of all time..
Look, Kobe Bryant still to this day is the best player in the league. I dont care about lebrons back to back MVP's. Being considered the best player in the league, carries different requirements outside of just offense and defense skills. A person has to be an ALL AROUND player, ATTITUDE, OFFENSE, DEFENSE, LEADERSHIP, CLUTCH, FREETHROW, SHOOTING ABILITY...etc..
So far the last decade, no other player has been as complete as BRYANT, listen to all pro analysts or players, KOBE IS THE MAIN CHOICE
They call more fouls in todays game but i remember back in da day where you couldn't even play help defense with out being called for illegal defense. Players wasn't allowed to gaurd two men at once, leaving more isolation basketball. Isolation was common back then which cancels out the fact that they call more fouls in todays game. Thats how players back than managed to shoot as high as 50 %
@RealFan357. I been watching ball b4 talkin n i still watch my VHS cum fly wit me, nba in da paint, 50 greatest players, Jordans playground, and above n beyond, Bulls3peat, houston double clutch, and many more tapes.. Im a real fan 2 n played da game from 93-2day.Watched n mimiced da moves i C. N understand da degrees of difficulty in da game. As a tru fan iwill tell uthere isnt a stat 4 every aspect. In da end u watch both generations and see who impresses u da most. I agree 2 disagree wit u
Yeah, but due to the change in the defensive rules, there's MORE isolation in today's game then there EVER was in MJ's era due to virtually EVERY play being a pick n roll, which results in LESS "team" play!
Go check the overall assists per game avg's of teams B4 & after the rules changed..that PROVES that your comment has NO validity to it whatsoever..
@RealFan357 . Lets see Pick n roll is not isolation, its actually takes team effort. We can go back and forth about this but before we go any further let me say that my brother has played every level of basketball and he can tell you that todays players reached a higher level. Jordan is greater than kobe cuz he did better against his generation than kobe did in his. Jordan is aarogant so for him to say he feels he can comepete in todays era was shocking. cuz he said compete not dominate
"Our objective was to [allow] for [more offensive freedom] by [not allowing] defenders to [hand, forearm or body check] ball handlers. When players get [higher quality] shots, they tend to [make more] of them. With more dribble [penetration], ball handlers are getting [more] opportunities at the [rim].
-- Stu Jackson VP of NBA Operations: "Rules changes have freed shooters, allowed offenses to soar"; by John Hareas of NBA . com, April 10, 2009
@RealFan357 lol y is the league average down in free throws field goal and scoring then before its cause guys r on a different level defensively the scrubs mike faced wud get annihalated today
"The [rules changes] did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [93.2] points per game in the 1998 season, to this year's [100 per game]. [Overall FG%] has [increased] from [43%] in 1998 to [48.1%] this season. [3-point %] has [gone up] from [.326] 11 years ago to [.367] this season."
-- David Aldridge: "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies"; April 23, 2009
Then SHOW ME 1 guy aside from Ron Artest that's actually WON the Defensive Player Of The Year award? Why has scoring for both players & teams INCREASED if what you say is true?
And any damn way, MJ destroyed MOST of the so called elite wing players in THIS ERA when they were younger & in their primes, despite him not being in his just a few seasons ago LOL!!
Lebron best season 31 .480%, 6 ass, 7 reb vs Grant Hill 26 .347%, 5 ass, 6 reb- NOT EVEN CLOSE... Lets see MELO 29 .476%, 6 reb, 4 ass vs RICE 27 .477%, 4 reb, 2 ass
MELO wins, Lets see Clyde 27 .506% , 6, 6 D-wade 30 .491%, 7.5 ass, 5 reb (Too close can go either way) Gary payton won't stand a chance vs AI no point of comparing their stats.
So a guy who regularly guarded MJ in his prime pretty & routinely did a pretty good job, and was a 9x 1st Team All Defensive member, would have "no chance" at guarding A.I., someone who's been 1 of the WORST & inefficient volume shooters/scorers in the HISTORY of the league?
MJ will always be considered better.. Since kobe is always compared to Jordan.. Who in jordans era can we compare to Lebron, Wade, Durant, and Mello, Dwight, prime t-mac, prime iverson. That would be more interesting to compare.
Melo is just this era's version of a prime Glen Robinson. Virtually the SAME game. A prime/pre injury Grant Hill from a "overall" production standpoint, did what LBJ's doing now.
Clyde Drexler at 6'7, was bigger, stronger, just as fast & athletic as D-wade, and for 4 straight yrs of his prime, shot 50%, something wade's NEVER done. A prime/pre injury Penny Hardaway at 6'9, was quicker than Durant, and as versatile as T-mac.
I'd matchup G.P. with A.I. because he played BOTH sides of the ball..
And there are SEVERAL players from MJ's era that would KILL D-Howard LOL!! Pick one!
A prime Shaq, Olajuwon & Ewing are the obvious choices, but David Robinson would give him problems as well with his speed, quickness & leaping ability, not to mention he'd just take him off the dribble or shoot the 12-15 ft jumper on him ALL DAY LOL!!
Shawn Kemp would terrorize him as well! Hell even Rik Smits would give him problems! In Smits, he'd be facing a 7'4 Pau Gasol LOL!!
And the guys from MJ's era did it in a MUCH TOUGHER, and physically demanding DEFENSIVE era..
Remember that!
B4 the defensive rules changed, only 3 perimeter players were in the Top 10 in scoring & avg'd at least 24ppg. After they changed, that # JUMPED to 11, and they had a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency!
That's WHY wing players in this era are the dominate scorers, and why so many of y'all FOOLISHLY think that they're better than the one's from MJ's era..
"Real championships aren't won through free agency"
That's gotta be 1 of the DUMBEST comments I've EVER seen posted on a video LOL!!
Go tell Chicago that when they filled the missing piece on their team when they acquired Dennis Rodman, or when Boston went out & did the same thing when they got Ray Allen & K.G., or when L.A. in '08 when they went out & got Gasol..
WTF are you talkin' about?!!
That's just a flat out ignorant & DUMB ASS comment..
Though I hate Kobe and am the typical Jordan fanboy, Kobe's game is to draw a three point play by drive to net, Jordan relied on the fade away jumper. Kobe's game wins out on sheer balls.
"Kobe's game is to draw a three point play by drive to net"
No it's not..that's NEVER been his game, well at least up until they changed the defensive rules 5 yrs ago LOL!! B4 that, it was ALWAYS perimeter oriented. MJ's the one that had a more balanced attack, which consisted of jumpers, post ups & driving to the rack..even at an advanced age..
@RealFan357 dude i hate u. i really do. MJ could only drive better than Kobe. do u morons realize that? and he was "better" at defense cause he gaurded GARBAGE! type in early MJ vids on youtube. their is a play where a white guy is on him and he palms the ball and fakes a 1 handed pass over his head. the guy turned around, HE TRUNED AROUND and MJ drove the lane. and u have the balls to sit their and type ur nonsense. its just absurd. truly remarkable how u all r just so brainwashed. its funny...
No, you just HATE that I buss your dumb ass with the FACTS all day long, and you can't invalidate 1 thing I've said, and KNOW IT. And your MJ "guarded garbage" is just a dumb kids way of raging against the facts, because you KNOW you have no legit argument..
Please kid..
"MJ could only drive better than Kobe"
Then explain MJ's consistently superior career EFG%, which accounts for BOTH reg FG% & 3-pt%'s?
Kobe is still the best next to Jordan... why? Because his work ethic is still higher then anybody in the NBA after all this years, his basketball IQ (has been considered one of the smartest players in the NBA), his skills are just superb oh and i almost forgot his defense is also great.
Kobe fans should take note of PROFESSIONAL opinions. There will always be delusional Kobe fans who thinks their lack of experience on an NBA court will outweigh Hall of Fame coaches.
Bottom line is, if MJ was picked first for your guard position, Kobe would be picked 2nd. Every single Hall of Fame player and coach would make that decision.
Every time someone makes a comparison, their downplaying what Jordan has done 4 the game. How can U compare a guy who's still playing 2 "the greatest of all time"? That's like saying HALF of Kobe's career is better than ALL of Jordan's. Wait 4 Kobe's career 2 end, THEN make the comparison. History will take it's natural course, and then the issue can B settled.
I will say this, Kobe gets HOTTER from the 3-pt line than Jordan did. 9 in a row and 12 of 18 overall against the Sonics and 8 in a half against the Wizards, both in '03. Pretty impressive, but that wasn't Jordan's game. He was more of a mid-range shooter. U can't really compare mid-range 2 long -range but people always have 2 find some way 2 compare Kobe 2 Jordan. That's disrespectful 2 Jordan's legacy.
Ball movement, Rebounding and defense do. He scored 62 points in 3 quarters against the Mav, 81 against the Raptors and won the scoring title in the '05-'06 season but he didn't win the championship. Forget the scoring title, win a ring. People make 2 big a deal over stats. Is Kobe a better 3-pt shooter than Jordan? Yes....slighty.
His 62 in 3 qtrs vs the Mavs, and his 81 vs the Raptors, BOTH came against NOTORIOUSLY BAD defensive teams. Hell the raptors ranked 29th out of 30 in Team 'D that year..
"People make 2 big a deal over stats"
Well, what told you what he did vs the Mavs & Raptors? What proves he won the scoring title? You're trying to lessen their value when they're not in kobe's favor, but then you'll give credence to 'em, by using 'em to highlight & prove what kobe's done.
@RealFan357 they were bad defensives yes but ican guarantee we probably wont see performances like that in the league again. give credit were its needed, this whole argument of whos better is irrelevant in some ways. This world isnt perfect, ppl are entitled to their own opinions, so respect it. Yes ibelieve that Mj will always be the greatest this game has seen. but inever seen him play. For Kobe to be doing what hes doing today is great for the game. Its sort of like Jordan of this era 4 me.
I only highlight what kobe's actually done & consistently does on the floor. That's ALL the credit 1 can give.
"ppl are entitled to their own opinions"
Yes, but when you arrogantly try to state 'em as a matter of fact (like kobe fans), while trying to elevate him in status at the expense of others, and you're TOTALLY ignorant of the facts, then no, that's NOT respectable.
For this, they deserve the SAME disrespect they've shown the game & that player..
@RealFan357 iagree, but dont categorize all kobe fans like those who your talking about. those aren't even fans and are 12 year old who probaly kno jack shit about the game. im a kobe fan myself and ihave the up most respect to those who became before him. Seeing that igrew up in this era ican honestly say Kobe has been the greatest IVE ever seen personaly, that being said. Isee Jordans accomplishments and his legacy so iwouldnt dare even comparing the two. his numbers were unbelievable.
@RealFan357 Discrepancy? What discrepancy? I JUST EXPLAINED HE DIDN"T WIN A RING EVEN THOUGH HE WON A SCORING TITLE. That's TWICE that i've explained that. I even wrote "I DON"T LIKE it when Kobe scores that much" & "
I LIKE it when he gets his team involved, because that's when they WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS". That SHOWS I don't make a big deal about stats. I didn't say ANYTHING about me FAVORING IT because Kobe did it. U just PROVED that u DON"T GET IT.
@RealFan357 Hope your happy in fantasy land or opposite world or wherever your from. I wish I could live in a place where reality doesn't constraint logic.
@RealFan357 I know what I meant when I was commenting because I WROTE IT. YOUR the 1 in denial. U can't admit u didn't read what I wrote well so u didn't understand, then made a bad comment assuming u did, probably realized u were wrong, but your hate 4 Kobe is so strong, that u can't admit it. Pride is a good thing, but too much pride just makes u seem arrogant and delusional. I KNOW WHAT I WROTE SO I KNOW WHAT I MEANT. PERIOD.
"I know what I meant when I was commenting because I WROTE IT."
I do to, that's why I replied..
"probably realized u were wrong"
I don't think so kid..
"your hate 4 Kobe is so strong"
My hate if you will, is for his ignorant fans. As for him, I only state what he's actually done & consistently does on the floor. Last I checked, that's not hating, only stating the facts..
@RealFan357 U said "My hate if you will, is for his ignorant fans." So by showing love 2 Kobe, u consider his fans ignorant.......JUST BECAUSE HIS FANS SHOW HIM LOVE!!!!! I don't know about u, but 2 belittle someone with childish name calling just because u don't agree with their point of view on a matter, that sounds like hating 2 me. Your hating on him vicariously through his fans. Hate is hate, whether or not it's direct or indirect. Denying that shows u have 2 much pride 2 admit being wrong.
"So by showing love 2 Kobe, u consider his fans ignorant"
No..I consider them ignorant when they constantly try to downgrade & discredit MJ, his era & anybody else not named kobe (as MOST of 'em do), in some attempt to make a favorable comparison for kobe, when he's compared to them.
You have the unmitigated nerve & audacity to imply that I'm hating for only stating the facts about him, but when his fans try to discredit MJ or his era etc., guys like you strangely don't have jack shit to say!
And constantly perpetuated by his uninformed fans.
"so they (the media) 2 know the type of player he is"
They obviously don't, because they ROUTINELY make only "face-value" comparisons, while presenting nothing but half truths, propaganda, and sometimes flat out LIES to sell kobe (LBJ too for that matter).
I don't apologize for calling out idiots who try to piss on the legacies of the legends just because they're ignorant of the facts..
The NBA uses MJ's legacy & on-court deeds to SELL kobe, and MANY longtime fans are put off by it. This BOGUS comparisons is just the media's campaign to sell the game to all of longtime fans who've turned away from it. (check the NBA's ratings since '98).
They keep pushing this comparison because they know that anything attached to MJ's name will get people's attention & get them to talkin' about the NBA. They're trying to recapture their "glorious past" they had with MJ.
Longtime knowledgable fans know that he isn't anywhere near MJ's level, albeit athletically or production wise, so what the NBA does is HIGHLIGHT "face value" similarities between them, to create the ILLUSION that their campaign has some merit.
The ONLY reason he's even compared to MJ is due to his "style" of play, which he & Phil both ADMITTED he copied from MJ, but his on-court "substance" is VASTLY inferior to MJ's.
Kobe's just their latest "next MJ" project..he's just a by-product
@RealFan357 Look idiot MJ couldnt last in this era and Kobe made 3 times the amount of threes jordan has made....... Kobe has made more threes than Jordan attempted lol come on man
A primed MJ would be EVEN DEADLIER in this era, considering the new defensive rules that would FAVOR a guy like him! You're EXACTLY the kinda' ignorant, delusional, dumb ass kobe fan I was talkin' about!
MJ's wizard avg: 22ppg 4apg 4rpg 42.4 FG%
In only 2 yrs of play, at ages 39-40..IN THIS ERA you fuckin' idiot!
B4 his '02 All Star Break injury, he was avg'n 25ppg 5apg 6rpg 46.2 FG% That's slightly BETTER than kobe's CAREER avg! And he was 39-40 yrs old!
@RealFan357 dude just stop. MJ shot way fewer 3s than Kobe which means he didnt go on as many "cold" streaks as Kobe. second, um, wouldnt u drive more in the 90's when ur playing with charles barkley in the lane, and craih ehlo on u. dude. MJ had 3 or 4 better shooting % than Kobe from 3 land. just cmon, even phill jackson admits it. thats y MJ fans cannot speak of how they think MJ is better. u r all brainwashed into thinking nonsense. cased closed. Kobe 3 point record and 5 rings. gettin close
@RealFan357 Plus, if Kobe wasn't a great player, U wouldn't care what people thought of him because no 1 would know who he is. He would b just another bench warmer. The fact that so many people love or hate him shows that people r aware of who he is. Like it or not, that shows he's made an impact.
@RealFan357 Also, the comparison between him and Jordan was started by the NBA and it's affiliates, not the fans, so they 2 know the type of player he is. Kobe is THIS generation's Jordan BUT Jordan is still the G.O.A.T.
@RealFan357 YungRomeyy agreed that Jordan is better than Kobe 2, just like I did and u still bashed Kobe. What gives? I'm starting 2 think this goes deeper than basketball. Do u have some kind of personal vendetta against Kobe and his fans?
@RealFan357 Man, dosen't anybody on this site know how 2 read? I started off by saying "1st off, Jordan is better than Kobe". That's a gigantic clue that I KNOW Kobe isn't better than Jordan. As 4 me being a hypocrite about when Kobe scores alot, right after I mentioned those games where he scored alot, I wrote "...but he didn't win the championship. Forget the scoring title, win a ring", THEN I wrote "People make 2 big a deal over stats" because I don't like it when Kobe scores that much.
@RealFan357 I like it when he gets his team involved, because that's when they win championships. That's not hypocritical, it's commonsense. NOBODY can win a championship by themselves. Not even Michael "the Greatest of All Time" Jordan. I don't care if Kobe wins 20 scoring titles. I rather he win rings. B4 u make a comment, make sure u ACTUALLY read what your responding 2 and make sure u UNDERSTAND it.
1st off, Jordan is better than Kobe. Jordan matured mentally at a younger age than Kobe, so his stats will reflect that. Jordan shot high 3-pt % because he took better shots instead of forcing. Kobe early in his career shot WAY too many 3's. All those missed 3's affected his % but since the 07'-'08 season, he 's made better decisions. Now that he understands playing team ball wins championships, he doesn't shoot them as much. He knows now individual stats don't win rings.
@poogodinks Imo you can't really compare Kobe and Lebron due to age differences, like how some people nowadays try to compare Fisher to Westbrook I mean cmon WTF?
Pat Riley literally looks like the devil himself.
johnyi 3 months ago
no disrespect to kobe bcuz hes is up there with jordan but cmon people jordan in my eyes will always be the the g.o.a.t hands down to this day i still hope he will come back lol
titoelsicariobta68 4 months ago
@Lily0666 the young Vito Corleone!!!
friendlyboi069 5 months ago
Pat Riley is a Wall Street Shark.
TokTokSports 7 months ago
iloveu pat!! agree 120%
eeyism 7 months ago
@Lily0666 I think he looks like hannibal
Streeetball3r 7 months ago
Jordan is the best, the rest are unimportant
danielraul1989 7 months ago
Kobe was hot in his prime. No one can take that away from him. 5 rings.
holidaysupermall 8 months ago
Jordan has 3 great advantages over Kobe (Phil Jackson)
1) Leaping Ability: Jordan's vertical leap in his last season as a Bull equals to Kobe's in his rookie season.
2) Hands: Jordan's 10 inch are the biggest ever for a guard, and equals the hand size of Wilt Chamberlain!
3)Strength/Speed: Jordan's shoulder frame is one of the most ridiculous ever for a player his size. Also, he ran 4.3 seconds in 40 yard dash as a college student, and possibly could have won a gold medal in the Olympics.
unioncity 8 months ago
@unioncity What about kobes knee?
X619mysterio 7 months ago
All Time Best
Jordan is #1
Kobe is #2
Still up for Grabs #3
drzgeneral13 8 months ago 8
@drzgeneral13 D-wade is just right under Kobe or may even surpass him
gamevirus01 3 months ago
@drzgeneral13 I'm glad you rank Jordan 1 as so many analysts do but Kobe is top 5. I'll tell you why. Jordan dominated the era of HOF big men when championship teams had dominant big men. Jordan won without a dominant 7 footer while dominating the centers of his time. Kobe had great big men play in his time as well (timmy, aging shaq, dwight) but not quite the level of the era of big men in the 80s and 90s. Kobe is great but his efficiency in this era of considerably weaker big men is arguable.
jerjerjason 1 month ago
Christopher Walken ^^
astrologio 9 months ago
Video is 24 seconds long, ooooh!!
PaweLBeatz 9 months ago
but kobe's fans sure know better than Pat Riley!! They also know better than Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, George Karl,Jerry Sloan, their own coach (Phil Jackson), Bill Russel, Jerry West, even Kobe himself and pretty much every professional basketball player and coach before Jordan's time, during Jordan's time and nowdays even!
They sure know better!!!
elwingy 10 months ago
@elwingy Kobe fans don't say Kobe is better then MJ, we (yes, I am a Kobe fan) consider them both the best.
henrimart7 9 months ago 29
@henrimart7 I'm a hugeee Kobe/Laker fan too but in all honesty: MJ was undoubtedly better than Kobe. Although, its quite important to point out that Kobe is just as clutch, but he does not impact the game & the players as well as MJ did.
HeRsHeYsKiSsz 8 months ago
@henrimart7 And that's why we think you're delusional. They're not BOTH the best, Michael Jordan is. All you have to do is look at their stats. MJ leads Kobe in almost every statistical category, played in an era of hand checking and physical defense and took two years off in his prime. It's not even close, really.
VinmanMJ23 7 months ago
@VinmanMJ23 Kobe has to play against much bigger and much more athletic SGs Michael mostly played against SGs around 6'3, Kobe can shoot over smaller players with extreme efficiency.
henrimart7 7 months ago
@henrimart7 Nope, not true at all.According to SI and ESPN, the average height for PG today is 6'2" and SG is 6'5" - and that average has actually decreased by about 1/4 inch over the last 10 years.The trend in the 80s and 90s was for bigger guards, smaller forwards and bigger centers.Today the trend is for smaller guards, bigger forwards and smaller centers - to the point that it's like having 2 PFs and no C.And the words "Kobe" and "efficiency" never belong together.
gf4670 6 months ago
@gf4670 keep dreaming dude... you,ve watch a video of pat riley saying there will never be anyone better than MJ and yet u say kobewho and MICHAEL JORDAN are both the best?aint that a laugh huh... keep dreaming! dont ever wake up coz if u do you'll go back to reality... MIKE IS LIGHTYEARS AWAY!
wornoutshoes11 5 months ago
@henrimart7 I have no problem that you or any others love Kobe, but please, do some researches before you put ignorant comment on youtube.
You can't just put a comment on the net against other players sheerly by YOUR IMPRESSIONS. the mid 80s to the 90s, in short the Michael Jordan era, the players' average height is higher than today's, the 2000s; I thought it's a common sense.
seraphlgabri 5 months ago
@CEO1451
Yes I respect his game. I watch him play everytime their on tv. I've never said that he's not a great talent, only that his fans overrate him when comparing him to MJ.
But for those who are fans of other players and who also respect the history of the game (many of them young), when they see kobe's fans making disparaging & ignorant remarks about their favorite player & MJ of ALL people, it makes it that much EASIER for them to start disliking & disrespecting him.
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
I get SO MANY personal messages from fans of past & present players (young & old alike), who literally THANK ME for standing up for the legends. They tell me all the time how they're SICK OF kobe's fans and don't care for him due to the constant disrespectful and ignorant comments made by his fans.
This is what has rubbed other fans the WRONG way. I get TONS of personal messages "thanking me" for posting the factual info about kobe.
People don't hate kobe on here, just his fans..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 are you kidding me -_- without lebron fans starting this whole damn thing there would be no kobe fans its LEBRONS FANS who are worst he hasent done anything nor had the time to and there trying to say hes better than a legand gtfo here lebron said kobes BETTER than himself. mj said kobes BETTER than lebron. so im pretty damn sure kobes better
LALAKERS24MAMBA 10 months ago
@CEO1451
"I just dont know why people hate on Kobe"
Blame his dumb ass kiddie fans on here.
They make ignorant, disrespectful comments about MJ in relation to kobe, but when introduced to the facts of the matter, they refuse to acknowledge them and will claim that everyone's "hating" as they proceed to try & discredit MJ, his era etc., just to make a more favorable comparison for kobe.
They've CREATED the anti-kobe sentiment by constantly doing this, which makes it EASY to not respect him..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 let me repeat myself "LEBRON SAID KOBES BETTER THAN HIMSELF"
LALAKERS24MAMBA 10 months ago
Well no one is arguing who is more efficient but at the end of the day
That's what it comes down too
Who was more efficient
And it was mike then Lebron then Kobe haha
ferrarimike23 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Regardless of HOW MANY MORE TIMES MJ shot than kobe, he CONSISTENTLY was more efficient. So that cancels out any argument that stems from that..
Like I said previously, it only took MJ 841 games to make 10,000 career FGs and 857 games to get to 20,000 career FG attempts. Kobe's ALREADY played 1,035+ games and has ALREADY taken OVER 20,000 career FG attempts, and STILL hasn't made 10,000 career FGs LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
You said kobe "can [easily] avg [30 pts] per season", to which I asked where's he done it? Show it to me to prove it. So now that you see that you can't prove that he did, now you're trying to LOWER the standard to 28-29ppg to railroad what you initially stated LOL!!
And how in the hell is avg'n a "combined" 29ppg over 10 seasons, "more impressive" than someone who LITERALLY avg'd 30ppg "per season"? How fuckin' dumb is that?
You're REALLY DESPERATE & reaching for straws now LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
You wanna play the "combined avg" game and attach the word "impressive" to it? Ok..
Since 1993, a player avg'n over 32ppg has only been done TWICE in a season, and 52% shooting by a player in a season on AT LEAST 20 FG attempts has only been done 5 times by just 2 people, and both were centers (GOAT centers at that), but NO ONE has done BOTH in a season in the last 27 years..
MJ avg'd that for 8 straight seasons and he's a guard!
Now that's what you call impressive..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Some people never learn..SMH
"The [rules changes] did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [93.2] points per game in the 1998 season to this year's [100 per game]. [Overall FG%] has [increased] from [43%] in 1997-98 to [48.3%] this season. [3-point %] has [gone up] from [.326] 11 years ago to [.367] this season."
-- David Aldridge: "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies"; April 23, 2009
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"from 2005 - 2010 he averaged 30ppg"
That's a "combined" ppg avg over 5 seasons, but show me what his ppg avg's were at the end of EACH of those 5 seasons...it wasn't 30ppg LOL!!
Quit trying to run game on me kid...I see what you're trying to do.
And any damn way, '05 is the season where the new rules were finalized, and resulted in the Top scorers in the league having a 23% INCREASE in scoring and 4% INCREASE in efficiency, not to mention his apg avg also jumped to about 5 a game.
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"With the rule and interpretation [changes], it has become [more difficult] for [defenders] to defend [penetration], cover the [entire] floor on [defensive rotations] and [recover to shooters]. This has [provided more time] for shooters to ready themselves for [quality shots]"
-- Stu Jackson; Exec VP of Basketball Operations: "Rules changes have freed shooters, allowed offenses to soar"; By John Hareas, NBA. com April 10, 2009
This is the Exec VP of Operations saying this LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Our [rules] are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for [more] high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today."
-- Stu Jackson, VP of NBA Basketball Operations; "Stu Jackson Presents", NBA . com May 3, 2007
Again, look who's saying this..he helped DESIGN & IMPLEMENT the new rules! He knows what it is LOL!!
This is what has GREATLY aided the scoring & efficiency of guys like kobe
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Mjs career average is 30 ppg"
I know that
"Every time you get caught you switch over and compare Kobe to MJ"
The initial conversation was about these 2, so what are you talkin' about? I didn't bring up Karl Malone, Elvin Hayes, etc., to avoid answering the initial question..you did.
"Who better compares with Jordan?"
Nobody compares to him when you actually look at the "substance" of his on-court production instead of just the "style" in which others (kobe) mimics.
RealFan357 1 year ago
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RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Now answer my initial question which ONLY involved kobe & MJ, and is what we were talkin' about to begin with: if you say kobe "can" consistently avg 30ppg, please SHOW ME where he's consistently (and consecutively) done so throughout his career to PROVE it.
Don't give me how many times he's "scored" 30 pts in a game or a buncha coulda-shoulda-wouldas about what you think, feel or believe him able to do, SHOW ME where he's consistently DONE IT to PROVE what you say..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Again, just SHOW ME where he's avg'd (not merely scored) 30ppg for more than 3 seasons. Why do you keep avoiding my question? Don't give me coulda-shoulda-wouldas, SHOW ME..just SHOW ME where this is so.
And while your busy making claims about what you THINK he could "easily do", SHOW ME where he's ever avg at least 30ppg, while leading the team to a title.
Oh lemme guess..your answer's gonna be "oh he can easily do that to". And I don't deal in "beliefs", I deal in "knowing".
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
When it comes to avg'n 30ppg, I don't have to try & make a case for MJ based on what I think, feel or believe he coulda-shoulda-woulda do/done because someone else maybe did/didn't do it, because he actually DID avg 30ppg for his career!
This gives me PROOF that he could avg 30ppg because it's a FACT, and not some opinionated fanboy claim based on what I think..
Hell in the 3 seasons kobe did manage a 30ppg avg, they weren't all done in consecutive seasons, nor did they win a titles!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
I'm not talkin' about K. Malone, E. Hayes, Dominique or any of them, I'm talkin' about kobe & MJ.
Again, stop trying to distract people by highlighting what they've done and SHOW ME what kobe's done in relation to your initial claim. You say that he "can" consistently avg 30ppg, well I'm gonna keeping asking the question until you TRUTHFULLY address it.
Don't give me how many times he's scored 30 pts, show me some some consistently & consecutive seasons of him "avg'n" 30ppg..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Stop trying to change the subject..this is about MJ & kobe
Were not talkin' about Shaq, Lebron or anyone else. I don't wanna hear shit about any of them, or how you say they've consistently "scored" 30 pts in a game, I'm talkin' about "avg" 30ppg for multiple seasons at a time on a consistent basis.
Now show this from kobe, and stop trying to change the subject. Show me this from kobe to PROVE what you're saying..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Why do the three times that he averaged 30ppg not count?"
I didn't say they didn't, but he hasn't CONSISTENTLY done this. That's what I'm getting at.
"Scoring 30 points 500 times is not a good enough point"
Again, SHOW ME where he's consistently avg'd 30ppg for SEASONS at a time consecutively, and I mean for MORE than a few seasons. That'll PROVE what you say about him.
Don't give what you think or believe him able to do, SHOW where he's actually DONE it..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Nope Kareem did it too"
Again: SHOW ME more than 4 seasons from him where he wound up with a 30ppg or higher avg at the end of the season. Just SHOW ME, and that'll end the dispute.
In fact Kareem only avg'd 30+ppg while leading a team to a title 1 time..kobe's NEVER done it. And I shouldn't even have to highlight how many times MJ did it, not to mention the fact that his CAREER avg is 30ppg in the reg season and 33ppg in the playoffs...not for a few seasons, but for his career!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Do you realize that there has only been two players in NBA HISTORY to average better than 28.4 ppg"
That's not the issue. This is about kobe & MJ. Everytime kobe's fans can't produce the goods to answer a direct question, you try & change the subject.
"you are telling me He cant score 30 consistently"
Well for argument sake: yes. You disagree? Then just show me where he's ever avg'd 30 or more ppg more than 4 times. Not 28ppg..30ppg. Just SHOW ME that and I'll agree with you.
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Just SHOW ME more than 4 seasons from him where he consistently finished at or above a 30ppg avg at the end of the season.
Don't give 28ppg or 27ppg, or anything LESS than 30ppg. SHOW ME 30ppg or higher..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"for the last 10 years Kobe has AVERAGED 28.4 ppg"
So what..that's NOT 30+ppg by anybody's math, and not only that, he can't even manage to MAKE as many shots as MJ while scoring the same amount of pts.
Try again..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
Don't delude yourself kid..
He can't even consistently score 30ppg in THIS ERA with rules designed to make for easier & more efficient scoring for guys like himself.
"If they [couldn't] hand check back in the day, there's some guys that would've been [even better] than they [were]. It would've been [nuts] for the [big-time scorers] & [perimeter] players from the '80s & 90s."
-- Joe Johnson; "NBA's new rule paves way for two steps", Oct 23, 2009
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"If defense was so much better in the 80s why was there more points scored in that decade than any other?"
Who said anything about it being better in the 80s? I was referring to the 90's..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
What are you talkin' about?!!
One's pts from their FT's are ALWAYS included into their pt total for that game! And if one wanted to know how many pts came from there, as well as how well (efficient) they shot from there (just like the from the field) regarding that game, all they'd have to do is divide the # of makes by the attempts, and this will tell the reader how efficient or inefficient they were that night..
It aint rocket science..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
MJ not only shot consistently shot better from the field, but he scored MORE pts in a lesser amount of games than kobe when you wanna start with the 20K FG attempts & pts scored argument kid..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"How many MAKES a player has does not tell you how many points they score"
SMH..wow
So lemme get this straight: If I see that a player went:
6-10 from the FT line (6pts)
1-2 in 3ptrs
8-12 overall from the field
That doesn't tell me he scored 23 pts? Is that what you're saying?
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
Don't you have to "shoot" (and make) the shot in order to score dumb ass?!!
Efficiency: "accomplishment of or ability to accomplish a job with a [minimum] expenditure of time and effort"
In other words: who consistently scores more pts on the least amount of shots. That tells you who's more efficient.
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"Please explain"
Easy: you're STILL not accounting for HOW MANY shots they've MADE vs attempts to get to those point..that's what gives you their efficiency dumb ass!!
I mean damn kid, are you really this slow?
What idiot tries to make a case for a player's efficiency using only their attempts & pts scored, but not factor in how many MAKES is present?
Like I said, your argument is ridiculous..SMH
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
What the hell do you think FG%'s mean?!!! It tells you how efficient they were in a game or per game!!
You CANNOT be an efficient scorer without any efficient shooting %'s, and the fact that you're trying to separate the 2, just so you can make a favorable comparison for kobe, is TYPICAL of his delusional & fanatical fans who'll go to GREAT lengths, just to elevate him in stature regarding this comparison LOL!!
Your argument is ridiculous..SMH
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Jordan averaged 1.31 points per shot attempt for his career. Kobe has averaged 1.30 points per shot attempt for his career"
Go look at the consistently HIGHER rate of MADE SHOTS MJ had over kobe per game, which led to those pts you're referring to. That tells you who's offensively more efficient.
How can kobe be an efficient scorer, but you can't SHOW US any consistently efficient high rate of shots MADE by him that led to those pts?
Do you know how stupid you sound?!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
If by your own admission he didn't shoot well, then how in the fuck did he efficiently score?!!
That makes NO SENSE!!
You CAN'T be an inefficient shooter, but be an efficient scorer! That's an oxymoron LOL!! WTF are you talkin' about!! That's not efficiency!!
Being an efficient shooter & scorer goes hand-in-hand! You can't separate the 2!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
SMH..wow..it's amazing the lengths you kobetards will go to to LOWER the standards, just so you can make a favorable argument for kobe LOL!!
No matter HOW you try to dress that up kid, 6-21 is NEVER a good showing in ANY game..
That's utterly ridiculous LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"he IS an efficient scorer"
No he's not because if he were, he'd consistently have some of the BEST player efficiency ratings (PER) every season, but he doesn't! This is EXACTLY the kinda' ignorance that Neil Paine of basketball-reference . com was talkin' about in his article regarding kobe's fans LOL!!
Just like he said, kobe's NEVER been 1 of the most efficient scorers, only one of its explosive ones. He scores in bunches, but it's not something he efficiently does..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
B4 one can score efficiently, you 1st & foremost have to SHOOT efficiently, albeit from the FT line or the field, preferably both LOL!!
Your argument for him WREAKS of immature desperation, and a SERIOUS LACK of perspective. How the hell can you be an efficient scorer & NOT be an efficient shooter?!! That makes NO SENSE whatsoever!
The 2 go hand-in-hand!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
Con't.
And that's not even counting 2009-present LOL!!
When you total all of his career reg season & playoff sub 42-48% games from his rookie season to 2008, he's been BELOW 40% 1/3 of his career, but you're on here trying to tell me that he's efficient?!!
That's fuckin' joke LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"in 2001 he attempted almost 600 Free throws and in 02 he attempted over 700"
This is what I mean when I say you just "deny" all of the evidence!! That was NOT under the old rules, because
that's when they started tweekin' the rules you dumb fuck!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
Consistently shooting 45% for your career is NOT efficient by any stretch of the imagination. It's mediocre!
Do you realize that with just 97 more playoff misses (assuming they get there this year), he becomes the All Time leader in playoff MISSED shots? No efficient scorer has such dubious distinctions!! WTF are you talkin' about?!!
You keep harping on 27,000 pts & 20,000+ FG attempts, well look at his career reg season & playoff FG%'s!!
That's NOT efficient!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"So what your saying is that he was 17, 18, 19, and 20 years old"
Cut it with the damn excuses man..
He didn't start to score "like mike" until AFTER the rules changed, as did the rest of the top wing players in today's game & that's a fact, not an opinion. It's not speculation that the top scorers had a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency AFTER the rules changed!
That's not an opinion! That's a FACT!!
You damn kobetards are ALWAYS trying to dismiss the facts..SMH
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"he has got to 7th all time and only taken 20,000 shots... WHICH MEANS he got to the line ALOT!"
By volume shooting & again, thank the new rules.
Did he ever lead the NBA in FT makes & attempts B4 this? No..but I can show you were he's done this TWICE as a RESULT of this LOL!! MJ only averaged 10+ FT's TWICE in his entire career. Kobe's avg'd about 9 FT attempts since the new rules, and even has 3 seasons of avg'n 10 FT attempts because of this..
C'mon man, stop denying the obvious
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
He played the equivalent of almost 4 yrs under the old rules, and couldn't score 40 or 50 pts 1 time. B4 the defensive rules were changed, only 1 active player (Shaq) had a 60+ pt game. After the rules changed, 4 players had one..ALL wing players (Arenas, Kobe, T-Mac & A.I.).
B4 the new rules only 3 wing player were in the Top 10 in scoring. After the rules changed, 11 wing players made up the list for top scorers LOL!!
I guess you think all of this is just coincidence huh?
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"The new rules definitely [changed] the game. If we could hand check [now], the game would be [totally different]. If they [couldn't] hand check back in the day, there's some guys that would've been [even better] than they [were]. It would've been [nuts] for the [big-time scorers] & [perimeter] players from the '80s & 90s."
-- Joe Johnson; "NBA's new rule paves way for two steps", Oct 23, 2009
I don't have to manipulate stats. You're just in denial like all kobetards..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"Kobe averaged 28, 25, and 30 ppg in 2000, 2001, 2002... UNDER THE OLD RULES"
SMH..sorry to rain on your parade my delusional friend, but the league started tweeking the rules in 00-01. They just finalized 'em in '05. You really need to go educate yourself kid..
And kobe avg'd MORE mins & shots per game in the reg season & playoffs than Shaq from 1999-04, so don't even try to use that excuse either..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"You are obviously counting his first two seasons"
Yeah just like I counted MJ's Wizard season in his avg's..you don't remove seasons to make a better comparison..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
No I just say what the facts lead me to say..
When compared to MJ (which is what the topic is) he's NOT efficient. He's taken 20,000+ career shots & hasn't even MADE 10,000 career shots LOL!! It's YOU doesn't have a clue LOL!! That's NOT efficient by ANY stretch of the imagination!
That's volume shooting!
He's a career 45% shooter, which means he misses 55% of the time and he's even WORSE than that in the playoffs LOL!!
You call that efficient? LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"he had NO PROBLEM scoring with the old rules!"
Oh really?
Kobe's combined avg under the [old] def rules
561 games - 21.77ppg on 42.2 FG%
Kobe's combined avg with the [new] ones
400+ games - 31.75ppg on 46.4 FG%
His apg avg also jumped to 5apg as well.
You're deluding yourself, and are just doing what ALL kobetards do when they are pinned by the facts: deny..deny..deny and keep insisting that they're right & ALL of the evidence and those who present it is wrong..SMH
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"Kobe would score [3-5] points per game [less] in the [pre-zone days] than nowadays. He would've had a [difficult] time playing his accustomed game when [hand-checking] was a [routine] defensive maneuver. It's [well-known] around the league that his game [suffers] under [physical] pressure. Just the other day, Maurice Evans said: "Kobe doesn't like to be touched."
-- Charley Rosen: "Mailbag: Zones haven't made defenses stingier", Sept 16, 2009
He's ALWAYS struggled vs physical 'D..
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"Whats this "Since 05?"
The new rules that FAVORS wing players like him, became official dumb ass! This caused a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency for them!
"Our rules are [designed] to [allow] players to [penetrate] for [high percentage] shots. This has [allowed] for more high quality [perimeter] shots as well, because of how much [easier] it is to penetrate today."
-- Stu Jackson, VP of NBA Basketball Operations; "Stu Jackson Presents", NBA . com May 3, 2007
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
Since the rules changed, look at the INCREASED scoring from some of today's top wing players:
Tony Parker: 12ppg to 18ppg
G. Arenas: 18ppg to 26ppg (B4 his injury)
Ray Allen: 19ppg to 25ppg (until joining Boston)
Kobe: 23ppg (as a starter) to 29ppg
Steve Nash: 9ppg to 19ppg
Nash's played his 1st 8 seasons with the old rules, but with new one's he's won 2 MVPs & has shot 50% EVERY SEASON since!
This is WHY wing players are the dominant scorers in today's NBA! It's NOT a coincidence!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
"kobe is the 2nd most dominant perimeter scorer of all time"
Hahahahahahahahaha****wiping my eyes****that's a good one LOL!!
So the 2nd most dominant perimeter player of all time has played in 1,052+ games & has taken 20,000+ career FG attempts, but hasn't even MADE 10,000 career shots? LOL!!
Get outta here with that nonsense kid. His offensive accolades are MAINLY achievements of VOLUME shooting and nothing more..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Kobe's been takin' MORE SHOTS since '05 (new rules) than at any point B4 hand..
"FG% is not the end all be all"
You're right, eFG% is because it accounts for 3ptrs.
Ages 21-29 eFG%: MJ .524 > KB .484
He's still isn't close to MJ, even with the advantage of the 3ptr & new rules that favors wing players.
In fact if you recalculated kobe's career FG% by removing his career 3pt attempts, it's STILL LOWER than MJ's, even with MJ's 3pt attempts & Wizard seasons included LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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@CEO1451
"you said Kobe Bryant is one of the most inefficient scorers of all time"
Here's an example:
It took MJ 841 games to MAKE 10,000 career FG's and by his 857th game, he'd ONLY taken 20,000 career FG attempts.
By kobe's 1,035th game, he'd taken OVER 20,000 career FG attempts and in 1,052 games (and counting), he STILL hasn't made 10,000 career shots and won't do so until sometime around next year or in 2013.
That's why I call him 1 of the most inefficient scorers of all time..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@CEO1451
Look at the "key words" in your comment: "at the [15 year] mark of their careers, and scored [LESS].."
Meaning, they were WELL past their PRIMES and their high volume of shots was how they compensated for it..
RealFan357 1 year ago
Look, Kobe Bryant still to this day is the best player in the league. I dont care about lebrons back to back MVP's. Being considered the best player in the league, carries different requirements outside of just offense and defense skills. A person has to be an ALL AROUND player, ATTITUDE, OFFENSE, DEFENSE, LEADERSHIP, CLUTCH, FREETHROW, SHOOTING ABILITY...etc..
So far the last decade, no other player has been as complete as BRYANT, listen to all pro analysts or players, KOBE IS THE MAIN CHOICE
dixie11 1 year ago 2
They call more fouls in todays game but i remember back in da day where you couldn't even play help defense with out being called for illegal defense. Players wasn't allowed to gaurd two men at once, leaving more isolation basketball. Isolation was common back then which cancels out the fact that they call more fouls in todays game. Thats how players back than managed to shoot as high as 50 %
damastermindify 1 year ago
"Players wasn't allowed to guard two men at once"
Let's see..
"Perhaps the biggest confusion of all was the [tougher] illegal-defense rule to [combat zone defenses.]"
-- Peter Vecsey: "The Sports of times; combating handchecks the world over" ; NY Times, Nov 6, 1994
Check the article date!
On the inbounds play right B4 MJ hit "The Shot" vs the cavs in '89, what were they doing to him? DOUBLE-TEAMING HIM!!
I wish you dumb kids quit trying to speak on eras that you probably didn't even see!
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357. I been watching ball b4 talkin n i still watch my VHS cum fly wit me, nba in da paint, 50 greatest players, Jordans playground, and above n beyond, Bulls3peat, houston double clutch, and many more tapes.. Im a real fan 2 n played da game from 93-2day.Watched n mimiced da moves i C. N understand da degrees of difficulty in da game. As a tru fan iwill tell uthere isnt a stat 4 every aspect. In da end u watch both generations and see who impresses u da most. I agree 2 disagree wit u
damastermindify 1 year ago
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"Isolation was common back then"
Yeah, but due to the change in the defensive rules, there's MORE isolation in today's game then there EVER was in MJ's era due to virtually EVERY play being a pick n roll, which results in LESS "team" play!
Go check the overall assists per game avg's of teams B4 & after the rules changed..that PROVES that your comment has NO validity to it whatsoever..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 . Lets see Pick n roll is not isolation, its actually takes team effort. We can go back and forth about this but before we go any further let me say that my brother has played every level of basketball and he can tell you that todays players reached a higher level. Jordan is greater than kobe cuz he did better against his generation than kobe did in his. Jordan is aarogant so for him to say he feels he can comepete in todays era was shocking. cuz he said compete not dominate
damastermindify 1 year ago
"Our objective was to [allow] for [more offensive freedom] by [not allowing] defenders to [hand, forearm or body check] ball handlers. When players get [higher quality] shots, they tend to [make more] of them. With more dribble [penetration], ball handlers are getting [more] opportunities at the [rim].
-- Stu Jackson VP of NBA Operations: "Rules changes have freed shooters, allowed offenses to soar"; by John Hareas of NBA . com, April 10, 2009
But guys today are on another level?
Bullshit!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 lol y is the league average down in free throws field goal and scoring then before its cause guys r on a different level defensively the scrubs mike faced wud get annihalated today
aswdwd 1 year ago
@aswdwd
"The [rules changes] did what they were [supposed] to do -- [open up] the game. Scoring average has [increased] from an average [93.2] points per game in the 1998 season, to this year's [100 per game]. [Overall FG%] has [increased] from [43%] in 1998 to [48.1%] this season. [3-point %] has [gone up] from [.326] 11 years ago to [.367] this season."
-- David Aldridge: "Rules changes have affected defensive philosophies"; April 23, 2009
But FT%, FG% & scoring is down?
aswdwd = epic fail
RealFan357 1 year ago
"guys r on a different level defensively"
Oh yeah?
Then SHOW ME 1 guy aside from Ron Artest that's actually WON the Defensive Player Of The Year award? Why has scoring for both players & teams INCREASED if what you say is true?
And any damn way, MJ destroyed MOST of the so called elite wing players in THIS ERA when they were younger & in their primes, despite him not being in his just a few seasons ago LOL!!
You're comment is a joke, much like you are..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 wf r u talkin bout go look up the stats before u talk shit u fuckin retard
aswdwd 11 months ago
@aswdwd
Sorry I don't speak kiddie gibberish..
RealFan357 11 months ago
@RealFan357 nice reply thanks for letting me know that you are a complete idiot
aswdwd 11 months ago
@aswdwd
Idiots don't consistently back up their arguments with facts & tangible evidence that can be verified.
Morons like yourself however have a LONG track record of NOT doing this.
RealFan357 11 months ago
@RealFan357 god, even MJ agrees, stfu.
ihofaerefa 9 months ago
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"Pick n roll is not isolation"
Whenever you set a pick for your teammate, the guy that was guarding you, is IMMEDIATELY "isolated" on your teammate!
How old are you?
This is why I have to question the I.Q. of kobe's fans, because you guys say some of the dumbest things LOL!!
What do you think the PURPOSE of the pick-n-roll is for? It's to ISOLATE & create mismatches from it fool!
RealFan357 1 year ago
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damastermindify 1 year ago
Lebron best season 31 .480%, 6 ass, 7 reb vs Grant Hill 26 .347%, 5 ass, 6 reb- NOT EVEN CLOSE... Lets see MELO 29 .476%, 6 reb, 4 ass vs RICE 27 .477%, 4 reb, 2 ass
MELO wins, Lets see Clyde 27 .506% , 6, 6 D-wade 30 .491%, 7.5 ass, 5 reb (Too close can go either way) Gary payton won't stand a chance vs AI no point of comparing their stats.
damastermindify 1 year ago
@damastermindify
"Gary payton won't stand a chance vs AI"
So a guy who regularly guarded MJ in his prime pretty & routinely did a pretty good job, and was a 9x 1st Team All Defensive member, would have "no chance" at guarding A.I., someone who's been 1 of the WORST & inefficient volume shooters/scorers in the HISTORY of the league?
LOL!!
You sound like an idiot..
RealFan357 1 year ago
MJ will always be considered better.. Since kobe is always compared to Jordan.. Who in jordans era can we compare to Lebron, Wade, Durant, and Mello, Dwight, prime t-mac, prime iverson. That would be more interesting to compare.
damastermindify 1 year ago
Melo is just this era's version of a prime Glen Robinson. Virtually the SAME game. A prime/pre injury Grant Hill from a "overall" production standpoint, did what LBJ's doing now.
Clyde Drexler at 6'7, was bigger, stronger, just as fast & athletic as D-wade, and for 4 straight yrs of his prime, shot 50%, something wade's NEVER done. A prime/pre injury Penny Hardaway at 6'9, was quicker than Durant, and as versatile as T-mac.
I'd matchup G.P. with A.I. because he played BOTH sides of the ball..
RealFan357 1 year ago
And there are SEVERAL players from MJ's era that would KILL D-Howard LOL!! Pick one!
A prime Shaq, Olajuwon & Ewing are the obvious choices, but David Robinson would give him problems as well with his speed, quickness & leaping ability, not to mention he'd just take him off the dribble or shoot the 12-15 ft jumper on him ALL DAY LOL!!
Shawn Kemp would terrorize him as well! Hell even Rik Smits would give him problems! In Smits, he'd be facing a 7'4 Pau Gasol LOL!!
RealFan357 1 year ago
And the guys from MJ's era did it in a MUCH TOUGHER, and physically demanding DEFENSIVE era..
Remember that!
B4 the defensive rules changed, only 3 perimeter players were in the Top 10 in scoring & avg'd at least 24ppg. After they changed, that # JUMPED to 11, and they had a 23% INCREASE in scoring & a 4% INCREASE in efficiency!
That's WHY wing players in this era are the dominate scorers, and why so many of y'all FOOLISHLY think that they're better than the one's from MJ's era..
RealFan357 1 year ago
:-O
Whoopass033 1 year ago
Pat Riley said it clear, nobody is better than the man who hang on the air ever.
ilocos78 1 year ago
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4eightyvolt 1 year ago
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4eightyvolt 1 year ago
Pat Riley will forever be known as: The man OWNED by the Chicago Bulls
crosseyedflame 1 year ago
@crosseyedflame not after he wins 5 rings with the heat... u clown.
juice887 1 year ago
@juice887 The Heat will NEVER be credited with ANYTHING with their current team. Real championships aren't won through free agency, sorry.
crosseyedflame 1 year ago
@crosseyedflame What the hell does that mean "real championships"?
danynumero6 1 year ago
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RealFan357 1 year ago
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"Real championships aren't won through free agency"
That's gotta be 1 of the DUMBEST comments I've EVER seen posted on a video LOL!!
Go tell Chicago that when they filled the missing piece on their team when they acquired Dennis Rodman, or when Boston went out & did the same thing when they got Ray Allen & K.G., or when L.A. in '08 when they went out & got Gasol..
WTF are you talkin' about?!!
That's just a flat out ignorant & DUMB ASS comment..
RealFan357 1 year ago
Though I hate Kobe and am the typical Jordan fanboy, Kobe's game is to draw a three point play by drive to net, Jordan relied on the fade away jumper. Kobe's game wins out on sheer balls.
brokennarcissist 1 year ago
"Kobe's game is to draw a three point play by drive to net"
No it's not..that's NEVER been his game, well at least up until they changed the defensive rules 5 yrs ago LOL!! B4 that, it was ALWAYS perimeter oriented. MJ's the one that had a more balanced attack, which consisted of jumpers, post ups & driving to the rack..even at an advanced age..
RealFan357 1 year ago 2
@RealFan357 dude i hate u. i really do. MJ could only drive better than Kobe. do u morons realize that? and he was "better" at defense cause he gaurded GARBAGE! type in early MJ vids on youtube. their is a play where a white guy is on him and he palms the ball and fakes a 1 handed pass over his head. the guy turned around, HE TRUNED AROUND and MJ drove the lane. and u have the balls to sit their and type ur nonsense. its just absurd. truly remarkable how u all r just so brainwashed. its funny...
mambaKB24mvp 1 year ago
"dude i hate u"
No, you just HATE that I buss your dumb ass with the FACTS all day long, and you can't invalidate 1 thing I've said, and KNOW IT. And your MJ "guarded garbage" is just a dumb kids way of raging against the facts, because you KNOW you have no legit argument..
Please kid..
"MJ could only drive better than Kobe"
Then explain MJ's consistently superior career EFG%, which accounts for BOTH reg FG% & 3-pt%'s?
That's what I thought LOL!!
mambaKB24mvp = owned once again
RealFan357 1 year ago
Kobe is still the best next to Jordan... why? Because his work ethic is still higher then anybody in the NBA after all this years, his basketball IQ (has been considered one of the smartest players in the NBA), his skills are just superb oh and i almost forgot his defense is also great.
Detoxhurb 1 year ago
Pat Riley has such huge respect for MJ. He even retired his shirt number on the HEAT team.
SquishyCandyftw 1 year ago
Kobe fans should take note of PROFESSIONAL opinions. There will always be delusional Kobe fans who thinks their lack of experience on an NBA court will outweigh Hall of Fame coaches.
Bottom line is, if MJ was picked first for your guard position, Kobe would be picked 2nd. Every single Hall of Fame player and coach would make that decision.
laepnud 1 year ago
I'm a Kobe fan and the "who's better" argument has grown way out of control.
818sickspit 1 year ago
Every time someone makes a comparison, their downplaying what Jordan has done 4 the game. How can U compare a guy who's still playing 2 "the greatest of all time"? That's like saying HALF of Kobe's career is better than ALL of Jordan's. Wait 4 Kobe's career 2 end, THEN make the comparison. History will take it's natural course, and then the issue can B settled.
818sickspit 1 year ago
I will say this, Kobe gets HOTTER from the 3-pt line than Jordan did. 9 in a row and 12 of 18 overall against the Sonics and 8 in a half against the Wizards, both in '03. Pretty impressive, but that wasn't Jordan's game. He was more of a mid-range shooter. U can't really compare mid-range 2 long -range but people always have 2 find some way 2 compare Kobe 2 Jordan. That's disrespectful 2 Jordan's legacy.
818sickspit 1 year ago
Ball movement, Rebounding and defense do. He scored 62 points in 3 quarters against the Mav, 81 against the Raptors and won the scoring title in the '05-'06 season but he didn't win the championship. Forget the scoring title, win a ring. People make 2 big a deal over stats. Is Kobe a better 3-pt shooter than Jordan? Yes....slighty.
818sickspit 1 year ago
His 62 in 3 qtrs vs the Mavs, and his 81 vs the Raptors, BOTH came against NOTORIOUSLY BAD defensive teams. Hell the raptors ranked 29th out of 30 in Team 'D that year..
"People make 2 big a deal over stats"
Well, what told you what he did vs the Mavs & Raptors? What proves he won the scoring title? You're trying to lessen their value when they're not in kobe's favor, but then you'll give credence to 'em, by using 'em to highlight & prove what kobe's done.
That's hypocritical..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 they were bad defensives yes but ican guarantee we probably wont see performances like that in the league again. give credit were its needed, this whole argument of whos better is irrelevant in some ways. This world isnt perfect, ppl are entitled to their own opinions, so respect it. Yes ibelieve that Mj will always be the greatest this game has seen. but inever seen him play. For Kobe to be doing what hes doing today is great for the game. Its sort of like Jordan of this era 4 me.
YungRomeyy 1 year ago
"give credit were its needed"
I only highlight what kobe's actually done & consistently does on the floor. That's ALL the credit 1 can give.
"ppl are entitled to their own opinions"
Yes, but when you arrogantly try to state 'em as a matter of fact (like kobe fans), while trying to elevate him in status at the expense of others, and you're TOTALLY ignorant of the facts, then no, that's NOT respectable.
For this, they deserve the SAME disrespect they've shown the game & that player..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 iagree, but dont categorize all kobe fans like those who your talking about. those aren't even fans and are 12 year old who probaly kno jack shit about the game. im a kobe fan myself and ihave the up most respect to those who became before him. Seeing that igrew up in this era ican honestly say Kobe has been the greatest IVE ever seen personaly, that being said. Isee Jordans accomplishments and his legacy so iwouldnt dare even comparing the two. his numbers were unbelievable.
YungRomeyy 1 year ago
@YungRomeyy Don't bother explaining 2 RealFan357. He just doesn't get it. He didn't even understand what I said.
818sickspit 1 year ago
"Don't bother explaining 2 RealFan357. He just doesn't get it."
Oh I "get it" & "understood" PERFECTLY, I just merely pointed out the discrepancy regarding your "people make 2 big a deal over stats" comment..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Discrepancy? What discrepancy? I JUST EXPLAINED HE DIDN"T WIN A RING EVEN THOUGH HE WON A SCORING TITLE. That's TWICE that i've explained that. I even wrote "I DON"T LIKE it when Kobe scores that much" & "
I LIKE it when he gets his team involved, because that's when they WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS". That SHOWS I don't make a big deal about stats. I didn't say ANYTHING about me FAVORING IT because Kobe did it. U just PROVED that u DON"T GET IT.
818sickspit 1 year ago
Like I said, I get it..I just called you on that..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Hope your happy in fantasy land or opposite world or wherever your from. I wish I could live in a place where reality doesn't constraint logic.
818sickspit 1 year ago
It's you kobe stans who live in a fantasy world that's perched on the banks of denial...
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 I know what I meant when I was commenting because I WROTE IT. YOUR the 1 in denial. U can't admit u didn't read what I wrote well so u didn't understand, then made a bad comment assuming u did, probably realized u were wrong, but your hate 4 Kobe is so strong, that u can't admit it. Pride is a good thing, but too much pride just makes u seem arrogant and delusional. I KNOW WHAT I WROTE SO I KNOW WHAT I MEANT. PERIOD.
818sickspit 1 year ago
"I know what I meant when I was commenting because I WROTE IT."
I do to, that's why I replied..
"probably realized u were wrong"
I don't think so kid..
"your hate 4 Kobe is so strong"
My hate if you will, is for his ignorant fans. As for him, I only state what he's actually done & consistently does on the floor. Last I checked, that's not hating, only stating the facts..
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 U said "My hate if you will, is for his ignorant fans." So by showing love 2 Kobe, u consider his fans ignorant.......JUST BECAUSE HIS FANS SHOW HIM LOVE!!!!! I don't know about u, but 2 belittle someone with childish name calling just because u don't agree with their point of view on a matter, that sounds like hating 2 me. Your hating on him vicariously through his fans. Hate is hate, whether or not it's direct or indirect. Denying that shows u have 2 much pride 2 admit being wrong.
818sickspit 1 year ago
"So by showing love 2 Kobe, u consider his fans ignorant"
No..I consider them ignorant when they constantly try to downgrade & discredit MJ, his era & anybody else not named kobe (as MOST of 'em do), in some attempt to make a favorable comparison for kobe, when he's compared to them.
You have the unmitigated nerve & audacity to imply that I'm hating for only stating the facts about him, but when his fans try to discredit MJ or his era etc., guys like you strangely don't have jack shit to say!
RealFan357 1 year ago
"the comparison was started by the NBA"
And constantly perpetuated by his uninformed fans.
"so they (the media) 2 know the type of player he is"
They obviously don't, because they ROUTINELY make only "face-value" comparisons, while presenting nothing but half truths, propaganda, and sometimes flat out LIES to sell kobe (LBJ too for that matter).
I don't apologize for calling out idiots who try to piss on the legacies of the legends just because they're ignorant of the facts..
RealFan357 1 year ago
The NBA uses MJ's legacy & on-court deeds to SELL kobe, and MANY longtime fans are put off by it. This BOGUS comparisons is just the media's campaign to sell the game to all of longtime fans who've turned away from it. (check the NBA's ratings since '98).
They keep pushing this comparison because they know that anything attached to MJ's name will get people's attention & get them to talkin' about the NBA. They're trying to recapture their "glorious past" they had with MJ.
RealFan357 1 year ago
Longtime knowledgable fans know that he isn't anywhere near MJ's level, albeit athletically or production wise, so what the NBA does is HIGHLIGHT "face value" similarities between them, to create the ILLUSION that their campaign has some merit.
The ONLY reason he's even compared to MJ is due to his "style" of play, which he & Phil both ADMITTED he copied from MJ, but his on-court "substance" is VASTLY inferior to MJ's.
Kobe's just their latest "next MJ" project..he's just a by-product
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Look idiot MJ couldnt last in this era and Kobe made 3 times the amount of threes jordan has made....... Kobe has made more threes than Jordan attempted lol come on man
drew0642 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MJ couldnt last in this era?
A primed MJ would be EVEN DEADLIER in this era, considering the new defensive rules that would FAVOR a guy like him! You're EXACTLY the kinda' ignorant, delusional, dumb ass kobe fan I was talkin' about!
MJ's wizard avg: 22ppg 4apg 4rpg 42.4 FG%
In only 2 yrs of play, at ages 39-40..IN THIS ERA you fuckin' idiot!
B4 his '02 All Star Break injury, he was avg'n 25ppg 5apg 6rpg 46.2 FG% That's slightly BETTER than kobe's CAREER avg! And he was 39-40 yrs old!
RealFan357 1 year ago
"Kobe has made more threes than Jordan attempted"
Yet career wise, he's only 2% better. Shooting MORE doesn't mean you're better at it dumb ass!!
Seasons shooting at least
40% in 3's: MJ 2 > KB 0
39% in 3's: MJ 1 > KB 0
37% in 3's: MJ 4 > KB 1
35% in 3's: MJ 5 = KB 4
Career Playoff 3-pt%: MJ 33% > kobe 31%
Career Finals 3-pt%: MJ 37% > kobe 28%
MJ's combined playoff 3-pt% in his 1st 3-peat was 38.7%..BEFORE the line was moved in. Kobe's during his 3-peat, was 36.3%..AFTER it was moved in.
RealFan357 1 year ago
@RealFan357 dude just stop. MJ shot way fewer 3s than Kobe which means he didnt go on as many "cold" streaks as Kobe. second, um, wouldnt u drive more in the 90's when ur playing with charles barkley in the lane, and craih ehlo on u. dude. MJ had 3 or 4 better shooting % than Kobe from 3 land. just cmon, even phill jackson admits it. thats y MJ fans cannot speak of how they think MJ is better. u r all brainwashed into thinking nonsense. cased closed. Kobe 3 point record and 5 rings. gettin close
mambaKB24mvp 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Plus, if Kobe wasn't a great player, U wouldn't care what people thought of him because no 1 would know who he is. He would b just another bench warmer. The fact that so many people love or hate him shows that people r aware of who he is. Like it or not, that shows he's made an impact.
818sickspit 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Also, the comparison between him and Jordan was started by the NBA and it's affiliates, not the fans, so they 2 know the type of player he is. Kobe is THIS generation's Jordan BUT Jordan is still the G.O.A.T.
818sickspit 1 year ago
@RealFan357 YungRomeyy agreed that Jordan is better than Kobe 2, just like I did and u still bashed Kobe. What gives? I'm starting 2 think this goes deeper than basketball. Do u have some kind of personal vendetta against Kobe and his fans?
818sickspit 1 year ago
@RealFan357 Man, dosen't anybody on this site know how 2 read? I started off by saying "1st off, Jordan is better than Kobe". That's a gigantic clue that I KNOW Kobe isn't better than Jordan. As 4 me being a hypocrite about when Kobe scores alot, right after I mentioned those games where he scored alot, I wrote "...but he didn't win the championship. Forget the scoring title, win a ring", THEN I wrote "People make 2 big a deal over stats" because I don't like it when Kobe scores that much.
818sickspit 1 year ago
@RealFan357 I like it when he gets his team involved, because that's when they win championships. That's not hypocritical, it's commonsense. NOBODY can win a championship by themselves. Not even Michael "the Greatest of All Time" Jordan. I don't care if Kobe wins 20 scoring titles. I rather he win rings. B4 u make a comment, make sure u ACTUALLY read what your responding 2 and make sure u UNDERSTAND it.
818sickspit 1 year ago
1st off, Jordan is better than Kobe. Jordan matured mentally at a younger age than Kobe, so his stats will reflect that. Jordan shot high 3-pt % because he took better shots instead of forcing. Kobe early in his career shot WAY too many 3's. All those missed 3's affected his % but since the 07'-'08 season, he 's made better decisions. Now that he understands playing team ball wins championships, he doesn't shoot them as much. He knows now individual stats don't win rings.
818sickspit 1 year ago
Comment removed
MOISTTOWLETS 1 year ago
In my opinion about Lebron/Kobe, you can't just compare the two because of their age differences, that's just me
GenesisJuggernaut 1 year ago
@GenesisJuggernaut Good for you. Now be a good boy and file a claim with Coach Pat Riley.
poogodinks 1 year ago
@poogodinks Hm, no open mind? :/
GenesisJuggernaut 1 year ago
Coach Riley just said it, MJ is the best of the best of the best. There really is no argument over this, it is the final verdict.
BTW, I think Lebron is a better player than Kobe.
poogodinks 1 year ago
@poogodinks Imo you can't really compare Kobe and Lebron due to age differences, like how some people nowadays try to compare Fisher to Westbrook I mean cmon WTF?
GenesisJuggernaut 1 year ago