For anyone who wants to know the real truth about Mormons, please go to Mormon(dot)org. There you can view the profiles of hundreds of members of the church, who talk about their experiences, beliefs, etc., and discuss why they are Mormon. I also have a profile on the site. To view it, just type "Terry" and "Omaha" in the search box. I am a Mormon by choice, and I tell you why. :o)
Its hard to comment on the hard core bible thumpers. Just how many different churches are there in the Bible belt USA.? I bet every one of them probably thinks the other is doing it wrong. read your versus again from beginning to end dont skip to 24 cause it sais your right and he's wrong read 1 - 23 too.
doesnt it sound great to be able to just get every reward God has for us and all we have to do is believe in him. i mean i wanna rob a bank and kill my enemies cause they make me mad. I just cant do that in the LDS faith. THAT's it. Im becomming a christian. GOD will let me slide then. LOL.
If Mormons can bang on my door and bother me with the idiotic tales of Joseph Smith's fiction works turned into a religion. ( sounds like L Ron Hubbard )
Than Christians ought to be able to bother Mormons. As an Atheist, I approve of exposing Mormons for the complete idiocy they preach.
These guys are sooo correct and made so much sense. I wonder why Mormon can't see the truth and how they ignore the true Bible. Why would anyone believe that God is from another planet? Mr smith must have been trippin on something when he made up that bizzarre story
OMG people actually expressing their differences, dislike, opinions and beleifs with respect instead of bashing. Not sure if it was staged but it is definately refreshing and a much more christian approach that I can respect.
These people are so close... but you should convert them away from religion full stop. There is no god, no jesus, no zombie is going to come save us, and no hell, oh no heaven either. Youl die, decompose and thats it. The only thing that will exist of you after you die will be the memories others have of you. religious people are crazy. wake up, this is all you get. There are amazing things in the natural world that you can be passionate about.
to all born again christians we are not saved by faith alone but by faith and works together it says so in the bible in (James 2 : 17 -22 ) ) james 1:22-24)
Emma Smith catches Joseph shagging Fanny Alger......... Former apostle William McLellin: "Again I told her (Emma) I heard that one night she missed Joseph and Fannie Alger. She went to the barn and saw him and Fanny in the barn together alone. She looked through the crack and saw the transaction!! She told me this story too was verily true."
Joseph Smith lies to his own wife...... " A. At one time my husband came to me and asked me if I had heard certain rumors about spiritual marriages, or anything of the kind; and assured me that if I had, that they were without foundation; that there was no such doctrine, and should never be with his knowledge, or consent. I know that he had no other wife or wives than myself, in any sense, either spiritual or otherwise"
Being devouted / good sincere and full of good works does not mean one is a christian, just someone who follows one of the many false religions out there. The Bible is clear, your works will not save you...Galatians 2:16 only Jesus Christ (not the brother of Lucifer). Guys, I am not concerned with your opinions/feelings (or testimony) I and concerned with what the Bible says .... and that is where Mormanism falls horribly short.
Laying aside the fact that no one, bornagain Christian or not, has the wisdom or authority to judge who's going to hell and who isn't, these folks have every right to express their opinion. But...that's all it is: their personal opinion. Much as they would like to think otherwise, they can't prove from the Bible that Mormons--or any other religious group they disagree with--are going to hell. I admire their perseverance, wasted though it is. These folks would make good Mormons.
I like how Matt Slick is the kind of person who will say "I don't want you to go to hell" when talking with Mormons. I've NEVER had a Mormon say that to me. Christians invite Mormon's over to dinner to talk about the gospel and I've NEVER seen a Mormon do the same. Mormons are taught to cover their ears and run when people present the true gospel. If that's not a cult, I don't know what is.
“I think we may accept it as a rule that whenever a person’s religious conversation dwells chiefly, or even frequently, on faults of other people’s religions, he is in a bad condition.” –C.S. Lewis, Collected Letters Vol. 3 p. 209
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself by the fruit you see.
@ "The Christian teaching is there's 1 Heaven, not 3 levels"
That might be the traditional Christian teaching but that's not the biblical teaching. Uh, yes, there are 3 degrees of Heaven. It's still just one Heaven but with 3 degrees. Read 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 12. Guess this guy missed the part where Paul saw a guy go to the THIRD Heaven.
@majinish You troll and block? Your comment has vanished like Josephs gold plates. God is not a created being. Joseph lied to Emma, the congregation and he lied to you. You are following a prophet of doom.
check out 4mormon.org it is a site to help L.D.S understand the differance between Mormon's and Christian's. Mormon's do you have a relationship? Is he your
Savior if so why do you go to your temples? Roman 3:21-31 Roman 4:3-4 Psalms 150:1- 6 Do you trust Jesus Christ and what he did or do you close your eye's in hope Joesph Smith wasn't a false prophet! Look at the churchs history and how they manipulate what you hear and read about them. utlm.org Read what Joe claimed of his own works!
@pangea7777 What about people that disagree with Mormon doctrine, but don't hate and instead love them and want to give them their opinion on what they think is truth just like morons do others?
@lilbeaveymac actually the entire focus of our church is Jesus Christ, in fact, it is the name of our church...The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. We do teach the Holy Bible is the world of God. In fact, we read, teach and live by it's teachings every Sunday and every day of the week. It is a lifestyle following the teachings of Christ. For the truth about our beliefs go to lds dot org.
@lilbeaveymac actually yes it was always the name of the church since the beginning of the Restoration. We only state that over two thousand years and multiple revisisions, edits and retranslations that parts have been lost, both intentionally and through translation. And yes there are many specific passages which we know that have been affected. We read/teach from the BIble daily, we believe Jesus is God and we are all saved by grace and if we love God we will obey His commandments.
@pangea7777 im glad you believe jesus is god,the doctrine teaches jesus is only our elder spiritual brother.
and your church believes in grace* after all you can do.its grace diluted.
maybe salt lake city knows more than the christian scholars because they not only disagree but can show why,not just say they know.you kinda teach the bible,you cherry pick verses,i was a member bro wc3rd ward,ca
@lilbeaveymac if you attended then you should know we also believe in the grace the gift of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. You also know we simply believe in letting our actions follow our words and not being hypocrites and giving lip-service only. God said "if ye love me keep my commandments" would you claim that we must only say we believe and do nothing? That is contrary to the gospel we must actual use it--it is a very practical gospel we can really use daily. It helps me better myself.
@lilbeaveymac ... here a part: "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel." (Ezekiel 14:9) This verse makes it sound like the Lord can deceive a prophet, then punish that prophet for being deceived. Not true, of course. The Lord is not capable of deception. Good example of a translation error.
@lilbeaveymac "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21) Jesus Christ is not God the Father, but he has the title of God, and is part of the Godhead, which is Biblical. (Colossians 2:9)
This is hypocritical for anyone claiming to be a disciple of Jesus Christ to promote contention as these videos do. You can justify your behavior by calling it whatever you want but it is not Christ-like. If only you put this same time and effort into actually doing something good such as Christ actually taught. Helping the widows, the fatherless, those in need. For the truth about our teachings go to lds dot org
@pangea7777 for the Truth go to utlm.org L.D.S bring another gospel. What is hypocritcal to say it's not Christ like to contend for the faith when in the Bible Jude call's us to contend for the faith. I see you as more of a hypocrit for following another angel's gospel and singing praise to the man who taught Jesus and Satan are brother's? You shouldn't be telling anyone what Christ would do! Because you really don't know, What Chrsit did for you!
@pappyforyou it is really hard to take anything you are saying seriously since all you are trying to do is misdirect and tell people another version of our beliefs, and you need to learn to spell. This is the 21st century spellcheck is commonly on all computers you can't even spell Christ correctly how am I to believe anything you have to say about my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ when you can't even spell His name?
@pangea7777 #1 Oh my! chastised by a mormon. Ok pal I don't understand what I said that wasn't correct. You sing praise to the man. You also need a testamony of Joesph Smyth(spell check! spell check!)To be baptised a Mormon.. You believe the Bible is translated incorrectly. Even though Christ said His Word would not fail (1st Peter 1:25)(Mark 13:31)(Luke 21:33) Yet you take Joe at his word? Why because another angel brought him another gospel. Gal 1:1-9.
@pangea7777 #2 Test, brain child, how did this so called apostacy happen with 3 Nephites never leaving the Earth? Where are they now? Why in the B.O.M does God's Word not change,Alma 41:8 yet in your D&C we have sec 56:4-5 Where God's Word can change? Isn't that why you need a prophet to keep up with the change's. B.OM 1 God D&C plural God's. Trust Jesus and I won't need to use spell check, and you won't want a B.O.M, D&C, P.O G P, Jesus said my yoke is light my burden easy! Matt 11: 28-30.
@pappyforyou yet again I say it is hypocritical for anyone claiming to be a disciple of Jesus Christ to promote contention as these videos do. You can justify your behavior by calling it whatever you want but it is not Christ-like. If only you put this same time and effort into actually doing something good such as Christ actually taught. Helping the widows, the fatherless, those in need. For the truth about our teachings go to lds dot org
@pangea7777 again I get your opion, on what Jesus would do! Why do you ignore what he did do? And utlm.org gives the unedited version of the church. You know the one where Joe had (documented) 33 wives 8 of which were married to other men and some as young as 14. Joe couldn't even keep his hand's off the babysitter. Did Moses say God comanded him to kill the egyptian? Did King David say the Lord told him to do all the awful thing's he did? Your hiding behind a veil of raised by Satan. Rev 2:9
@pangea7777 what you call 'sugar-coated' is like saying going to the university to get a degree on a subject to educate yourself on a particular career is also sugar-coated. Would you suggest going to the churches who have paid ministries (ours are volunteer/nonpaid) motivated by money/prestige to gain members and to whom our faith is a percieved threat monetarily as well as doctrinally? I would never read an autobiography written by someone else-I would go to the source and find out for myself.
Americans (southern states) are really screwed up. All religions are a joke but the Mormons are following a cult, more sinister than the usual hypocrisy of the Christian mainstream bible bashers.
Oozing the hate-filled love of christ here. Such hypocrisy and name-calling from christians is kinda' good in a weird sort of way. It helps people see how damaging all religion is to people and hastens its demise. Good job Christian bigots!
@MsAlicewonderful you are sooo stupid!,are that ignorant or better yet retarded?,dont come back here unless you know what the hell you are talking about you IDIOT!
It seems that even though most of these Mormons who have posted on this thread, and 99.9% of every LDS member in the world has not read the Holy Bible, nor have they ever truly understood what their Book of Mormon says. This is the fault of their false church, not them... There is still time to truly understand what Mormonism teaches and how it is not Christian, or of God. See carm.org for factual proof.
@NeoSwede1488 Christ's church isn't false. It was put on the earth by Christ Himself. I've read the Bible and Book of Mormon, we do believe in reading both. That's how I know the church is true because of the word of God. We are christians whether you want to believe it or not.
@NeoSwede1488 Don't read the Bible? Really? Cause last I checked, in Sunday school we were studying the New Testament. Is that not part of the Bible? Not only that, but in seminary, we dedicate one year for the New Testament and one year for the Old Testament. I have read the whole story of Esther and am going to read more of the Bible and not only read it, but study it. So, we don't read it, huh?
@all LDS: Look at Mormon Doctrine and Covenants Section 135:3. Joseph Smith is compared to Christ as having [atoning] blood, and using his blood to save through works, not faith, which is not of God because Jesus says very clearly that only through faith, not by works will we be saved (Eph 2:8-9, Rom. 3:20, 28, Gal. 2:16). Believing in the blood of Joseph Smith is simply not Biblical, because the only [atoning] blood is by Jesus not man (Matt 26:28, 1 Pet 1:19, Heb 9:14).
@NeoSwede1488 Wrong. The Bible says faith without works is dead. Faith + Works = Grace. If it doesn't take god works what was the point of the atonement?
@NeoSwede1488 just read the whole section and don't see how it's possible to twist the words written so badly. It does not say that Joseph Smith's blood has any redemptive value to mankind. The only comparison to Jesus is to say that he did a lot of work for the church, and therefore for humanity, and sealed his testimony with his blood. It does not say at all that his martyrdom trumps, or even augments, Jesus' sacrifice. There is no conflict with the doctrine of Jesus' atoning blood.
@NeoSwede1488 WoW really!? I will give you credit, you are very talented at taking what was really said and twisting it and making it look awful to meet your own personal agenda! Seriously its absolutely ridiculous! MANIPULATION of truth, that's all your doing.
Watch my YouTube channel. ALL of my movies carry a secret, anti-Morman message. WOMEN'S RIGHTS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Religion is NO REASON to hold down American Women!!!!!
hey, the worst thing a mormon ever did to me was wake me up early on a saturday morning to tell me about mormonism. i was cranky, hung over, and tired. thats not SO bad. are they weird? yes. do they bomb other people or countries? NO!
Hi, MrDerby. I'd be a bit careful about giving LDS ANY slack.
It's true, they DON'T bomb people. But I CAN see that potential in them as a relig. Org. given their Authoritarian bent--dictating to members what they can wear, eat, read and view. All you have to do is take the tantrums of LDS in these chats to see that, like their Muslim extremists counterparts, they would kill every anti-Morm. in sight--given the chance to get away with it.
@42apostate So, just because some LDS correct the falshoods that appear in here, that takes us from the status of good people and suddenly makes us zealots?
@42apostate /// "All you have to do is take the tantrums of LDS in these chats to see that, like their Muslim extremists counterparts, they would kill every anti-Morm. in sight--given the chance to get away with it."///
Just judgin' by history! Read about the Danites. (Hint: shhhh...don't tell anyone, but you have to read historical accounts that have not been tampered with by over-zealous LDS historians!)
Also read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre--120 men, women and children massacred by LDS zealots--under the promise of protection, surrendered their weapons and then were systematically gunned down at point-blank range!
Part of the duties of the Danites was to shed the blood (blood atonement) of those LDS apostates and disenters who DARED to speak out against Briggie and his dictatorial LDS policies.
The origins of MMM were the LDS teaching and temple ceremonies demanding revenge for the spilled "blood of prophets".
Origins of LDS anti ERA were LDS policies that subjugated women, ie., not equal to men (WHITE men). Same policies toward black men--not equal to whitey!
@42apostate Eh...I've been called worse, simply for correcting the falsehoods others post about the LDS church. Sounds as if what I do bothers you. It's a free county, m'man.
I most certainly IS a "free country"--(no thanks to Mormonism). It is under and well within, the "free country" principle that I choose to challenge the falsehoods of Mormonism--many are and have been clearly stated here--NONE of which have been, even remotely refuted by you so called "defenders of the faith"!
All I've seen so far is grade school level b'tching and moaning, crying and slobbering--AND making nothing BUT unsubstantiated claims, assertions and declarations.
Bother me? The thing that bothers me is that fellow humans would/could CHOOSE to be so DENSE!--just like some 6 year olds whose eyes glaze over when shown proofs that Santa is not real...
@42apostate Of course, you would never admit to having posted something false about the LDS church in here, so naturally, you would not see where I have corrected the falshoods.
If you don't intend to counter any of the points made in the "tantrum" you might just as well do what most LDS do--get some sleep. You LDS have sleep down to a science!
@42apostate I have better things to do with my time than respond to posts from someone who's obviously got an ax to grind with the church. Your type is only interested in answers because it gives you more fodder for dissing on someone else.
"Practicing a form of voodoo in the temples." Besides being a false statement, m'man, it shows that you don't seem to have much respect for other's rights to believe as they choose.
I DO have respect for ones beliefs--except for the beliefs that are falsifiable in real time and with real facts. The ONLY "axe" I have to grind with the church are it's obvious lies that it puts out that only gullible COULD believe.
The concept of wearing underwear that have a magical property to "protect" the wearer is VERY like a voodoo amulet made of the foot of a chicken, the hair of a dog and the balls of a mosquito--all done to ALSO "protect the wearer", is a case-in-point.
Your moniker, "JediLDS", carries the connotation of being a warior for the LDS Church. Yet you come to this obvious "ANTI" video to "defend", and all you've done thus far is to cry, howl and complain. Hardly the image of a "warior". I don't blame you for running away, tho. Were I in YOUR shoes, I'd run away too. However, if I did run away, I'd certainly HAVE TO, in all good concience, change my moniker to "JediPUSSY". Maybe you should consider doing that--it'd be more honest!
I don't consider "health in the navel, marrow to the bone and to run and not be weary, to walk and not faint" (words DIRECTLY FROM the LDS temple ritual) to be "spiritual protections". "Physical protection are implied--RIGHT IN THE CEREMONY ITSELF!
Bill Marriott claims his garments "saved him from fire" aboard his multi-million dollar yachet! Do a YouTube search "Marriott fire garments". Smarter LDS members than you think it DOES include PHYSICAL protection.
so do I click "Like" because I'm glad to be informed about how close minded antis are or do I click "Dislike" because of how close minded the antis are?
One word for them: Either God is a God of Revelation and can teach new and more things to all his children as time passes on this Earth, or He has stopped being a God of Revelation and refuses to give us any more information and allows us to duke it out over a book assembled and reassembled a jillion times over the centuries. Which is it?
If what you say is true about god teaching new things, perhaps you should throw out the idea that the LDS Church of today is "the same Church Christ established in the New T.", because they are CLEARLY NOT the same. Hell sakes, it's not even the same church JosephsMYTH established in 1830!!
@42apostate well, no, that would actually lend credence to the idea that new ideas and further teachings ARE added as his church is ready for it. Jesus didn't reveal all truth overnight by the seashore, it took MILLENIA through the prohets of the Old Testament to even get to the point where the world was even somewhat ready for the Gospel of Christ. You might as well claim Adam knew everything and there was no need for a Mosesor Elijah or Jesus.....
So, todays LDS Church was "expected" to change? I don't think that opinion of yours
hold up in consideration of the statements made by your OWN latter-day prophets and apostles TODAY who have stated many times that this church (LDS) is "the same church" Jesus organized at the meridian of time, and cites Ephesians to prove it!?
If I concede to your point, I must also concede to the equally valid claim made by the holy RCC, that their leaders, starting with President Peter, the prophet, seer, revealator and translator of THEIR early, maturating and growing and changing organization, such that when they introduced sprinkling baptisms and the symbol of the Cross, Mary's stature, the selling of indulgences, etc., I must ALSO recognise THEIR claim that these changes came about because of "revealation"!
ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that the LDS prophet AND the Catholic Pope BOTH claim to speak to and for God Almighty--VIA REVELATION!
IF you were to do a point by point examination of "changes" made to the "original church", it would turn out that the NUMBER of changes made to both orgs would be IMO, nearly the same. Is "change" an identifier of the "one true church"? If it is, then your leaders are lying and YOU are right! If not, THEY are right, YOU'RE the liar.
@42apostate first of all, name calling will get you nowhere. I have not demeaned you with third-grader tactics. Others who wish to read the debate you try to present certainly cannot be intelligently swayed by "pants on fire" terminology. Secondly, you may feel comfortable addressing me as a memr of the LDS church, but I have not stated here if I am a member, or active, or inactive, or an agnostic, or a "free thinker" for that matter
My proclivities and personality are not at issue here. The LDS church IS THE ISSUE!
Your LDS membership (or lack thereof) is STILL not the issue, although, you DO WALK like an LDS duck, and you ACT like an LDS duck, and you TALK like an LDS duck, so pardon me for assuming that you ARE an LDS DUCK (if you're not).
@42apostate I'm trying to. But your angry language is distracting and a waste of 500 letter post space. Look, I could say that since you WALK like an ASS, ACT like an ASS, and TALK like an ASS, you must be an ASS. But, pardon me if you're not really an ASS. See what a waste of time that is?? (although, truth be told, you might not in real life be the jerk you act like here, you're just very passionate, and I can understand that)
I don't mind being thought an ass by Mormons that I confront here with problematic LDS doctrine and history. It's part of the deal!
In person I would most likely come across as more charming, IF we were to sit down with no time constraints and no 500character limits. I tend to be blunt in order to be clearly understood without wasting words in order to be "politically correct" OR tactful. It's the nature of YT mechanics.
Even in person I'd be firm abt sticking to the subject.
I have seen MANY LDS who come here pretending to be NON-LDS--as a means, I suppose, of giving their opinions in favor of the LDS view from the POV of a supposed position of unbisased neutrality. I just chuckle at their naivete'...
The truth doesn't need the assistence of LIES. Lies, on the other hand, DO need additional lies in order to perpetuate the first lie. That's the way the LDS Church works. JosephsMYTH lied and since then additional lies were necessary for support.
The LDS Church has changed since JosephsMYTH day--due mainly the lies (the first lie was revealed so additional lies were implemented to prop up or cover the lie. Those lies are revealed so ADDITIONAL lies are introduced. ALL the while the LDS Church is changing to meet the revealed lies.
The latest lie to cover up the fact that the church has "changed" is due to "REVELATION"!!
Dallan Oaks said, "My duty...is to protect the church AT ALL COSTS!!"
@42apostate contd as to the point that Mormon prophets make about the church being Chris's church. First, I don't believe any of us KNOW every detail about how the church was then. We only have a record, the Bible, written after the fact by some of his followers. Did they include everything? Were there parts left out? Would Christ's church have been different if the world had electricity, computers, and Mountain Dew? Who knows. Mormons claim to believe in the Bible, and then some....
That's the point! ALL we have to go on that can be used as proofs/evidences are what were written by witnesses at that time. To try to go beyond that is to enter the world of ASSUMPTIONS. Doing so is what is largely the genisis of 10,000 differing Christian religions--and for the same reasons, LDS is NO DIFFERENT than all the others--a bundle of man-created religious assumptions.
@42apostate contd and if the "and then some" happens to be made up, then = false church. If the "and then some" is actual truth (revelation) then we'd better pay attention.
I think basketball is the one true sport. Basketball today is the "same" as when Dr. Naismith drew it up, i.e. pass a ball around and shoot it into a basket. Oh but wait, there have been rule changes, like dribbling, shot clock and three pointers but it's still basketball, right? It's still the one true sport, right?
@42apostate It was ME who claimed in my example to make the sport the tue sport, not Dr. Naismith. Read it again. I think it makes my point very simply.
You were obviously making a lame comparison of basketball to Mormonism.
It was NOT just any old common member peon that made the claim that Moism is the one and only true ch.--it was THE FOUNDER that made the claim. In making a legit comparison it'd be Naismith, the "FOUNDER" of basketball, that would have to make the claim of "one true sport".
If you can'/WON'T compare apples to apples in your example--YOU LOSE!
@42apostate ok then pretend I am actually Dr. Naismith, somehow still alive and 140 years old, and I make the proclamation that basketball is still the one true sport even though the rules have changed a lot. Then does my comparison make sense?
No. It STILL makes no sense. I 'm slightly surprised that you don't see WHY it makes no sense!
What you've done (attempting) is to create a hypothetical situation. Hypotheticals, in this setting, are nothing more than glorified fairytales, what if's and maybe's. I can't think in those terms--I had my fill of it as a Mormon. In science, and perhaps some other disciplines, hypotheticals may serve a purpose. Used in a religious context it's nearly always a BOGUS attempt to LIE.
@42apostate cont'd anyway, the argument that "whatever church changed the least must be the truer one" is silly as well. Perhaps the Druids or the Navajos have not changed their religion in centuries. I don't know. But lack of change in itself does not prove tuthfulness, any more than lots of change does. That's not the point I was making. Mormons believe in their Church's verity because of the apostasy, and the need for a restoration, not a reformation like all the Protestant churches...
@42apostate of course it is "expected to change".Has the apostate forgotten his Articles of Faith? #9 = "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and wonderful things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."
Name some of those "revelations" that would "change" the church from Briggie on down to Tommy Boy Monsoon.
Actually, it's been the frantic, even MANIACAL, need of LDS leadership to cover up the lies of the past by creating NEW lies that has "changed the church".
YOU made the claim of that church "changing due to revelation". It is ALWAYS up to the claimant to support the claim. It is NEVER the responsibility of the respondant (me) to prove a negative.
You made the claim, YOU provide the list that shows "revelations caused change".
As for polygamy and black issues (the cessation of the original LIES that started them), it is VERY EASY to show that BOTH were halted due to PUBLIC PRESSURE--and NOT because of any "revelation". Read the Manifesto of 1890 and show where it indicates any "revelation" involved! It was merely a PLOY to get the US Army off Wilford's back. Polygamy (OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED polygamy), continued until at least 1910!
I'm Willy Woodruf and god tells me to stop PM, it wooda ended in 1890!
The Article of Faith that Mormons ought to pay more attention to is #11--allowing ALL people to worship, "how, where, or what they may"--inthenameofcheeziecrackers, Ramen!
Wow! That statement came out of left field, didn't it?--more like the parking lot out side the ballpark!
That said, if the gay leaders decided to make it a religion and marched down to the State Licensing offices and BEGGED the STATE to give their approval of this new religion, how would that be any different than what JosephsMYTH did in 1830?? The State would likely grant the License to the gay community, as long as all paperwork was in order--as they granted ol'Joe HIS lic.
NAME some of those "revelations" that god supposedly promised he would reveal and "may yet reveal" beginning with Briggie and on down to T. Toodlie Monsoon.
If there were ever a time that this world needed some godly help, it's now.
I remember one (ONLY one) by Hinkster, the one about "Thou shalt not have facial hair" for the men, and for the women, "Thou shalt not have more than one earring per ear"!
Now THAT was HEAVY-DUTY revelation!! The whole world REELED at that gem!!
Yet in my day the LDS Church condemned all the OTHER Christian churches precisely BECAUSE they "changed". It's now okay, apparently, for the Mormon church to "change", but NOT okay for the other churches to "change".
That my dear friends is TYPICAL MORMONISM, ie., the ol' Double Standard is alive and well in Mormonism!!!
We have a right to practice our religion. Plus i'm republican and so are many Mormons so I don't support gays getting married. And its not to say I don't like Christians or Catholics, my father is one, but the Catholics murdered thousands of Jews during the Spanish revolution and the Christians have to protest anything against their religion. Why do you protest us if we never did anything bad to you?
THEN come back here and brag about how wonderful (and innocent) Mormonism is.
What you did to us (former Mormons) was to LIE about doctrine AND your history.
That hasn't hurt YOU, YET, because you are unable at this point to open your eyes and see it. The day WILL come when you'll see it for what it is--a lying, thieving cult!
Also, for the last 180 years Mormon leadership have been talking trash about Christians. Even the Book of Mormon does it (1 NE). LDS also have 60,000 missionaries out telling people that their churches are false--(an INSULT, in case you need to be told).
@jpwill97 hey, the worst thing a mormon ever did to me was wake me up early on a saturday morning to tell me about mormonism. i was cranky, hung over, and tired. thats not SO bad.
what did mormons ever did? they dont protest, they dont blow themselves up, nothing. so, they marry a couple women in their time; big deal. it's kinda sad to protest someone like that...
If you are a member of an anti-Jesus cult aka a Mormon, it's not too late. Just go to Jesus and beg forgiveness. He forgives people, even after doing something that will send you on a Disney Quick Tram to hell like INVENTING A BLASPHEMOUS HOLYLAND IN UTAH and CHANGING THE BIBLE TO SUIT YOUR SEXUAL NEEDS.
@DOCTORDANification ... Beg forgiveness for what? Believing in Him all my life, because that's what I've done. I read about Jesus in the Bible. Everything the Bible says about him, I believe.
@DOCTORDANification hahahahaha but can't we all just beg for forgiveness and praise Jesus no matter what we do the second before the train hits us and we all go to heaven anyway?
Churches today don't have the luxury of going over to the neighbor tribe and steal THEIR property to place in their church. What makes sense to me is that, yes god deserves MUCH more than we can possibly give. God is NOT the prick the Old Testament makes him out to be. The REAL God is patient and understanding and will only ask of us that which is reasonable. He WOULD NEVER, ask a struggling widow living on a fixed income to pay ANYTHING. Tithing is based on one's INCREASE
@42apostate which is why a woman living on Social Security alone does not HAVE to pay titihing ---- that income was already tithed by the breadwinner's income years ago........it'd be like saying that if I invested a thousand dollars (post tithing) in a CD and made fifty bucks I should pay $105 in tithing? That's crazy! The only INCREASE is the fifty dollars, hence five dollars tithing is fair
I agree. That's the way it's SUPPOSED to be. But many LDS widows are GUILTED into paying, as are the 1000's of poor in Mexico and S.A. The gen. LDS population are told that they can't get to 1st deg' of CK if they DON'T pay that "fee". THAT'S reality. A few decent bishops will allow the poor to slide--UNTIL they hear GBH in S.A. telling the natives (PROMISING) that if they pay, no matter how difficult, they'll be "blessed". That's referred to as "guilt tripping".
@42apostate Please, don't forget Mark 12:41-44. The widow was blessed more for giving her "tenth" (actually, "all her living") than the rich guys. Jesus wouldn't exaggerate the blessings of giving donations and tithes, would he? Where's the guilt? Jesus was talking to the scribes, Sadducees, etc. and had just answered all their tough questions. Then he turned to the treasury and showed his disciples the real point of all his teaching with the observation of the widow's offering. Guilt?
I've said it before but apparently you missed it. I have no real problem with the idea of "tithing". Two ADDITIONS to the BIBLICAL tithing principle, by LDS, are these:
1. Changing the 10% of NET increase to 10% of gross income REEKS of corporate GREED!
2. Morphing the "blessing-of-giving" intent of tithing, into the payment of tithes in Mormonism as REQUIREMENT for "salvation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kinkdum". IOW, Mormons have to pay a FEE to live with God!
@42apostate Google is wonderful! First Presidency Statement 1970: "...members of the Church should pay 'one-tenth of all their interest annually,' which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this". Each member is to prayerfully decide how to interpret this statement. No member is ever to be told how to calculate their tithing. No member is authorized to tell another how to pay tithing.
Sounds like you just made up item number one. Why?
#1 was from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE as a Mormon. It was the way I was taught.
What I was taught and heard ALL THE TIME was, "If you want NET blessings, pay on your net income. If you want GROSS blessings, pay on your gross income."
@42apostate re number two: this description of tithing as a fee bothers me. The way I understand it, tithing is just another one of the commandments to obey. You know, like love God and love thy neighbor. Or thou shalt not kill, bear false witness, steal, etc. Tithing just happens to be a commandment, or request, regarding money or property. Why get so bent out of shape about it? I could live on 90% of my income fine, and so can anyone else if they want to. Better than animal sacrifices!
Right! The "fee" SHOULD bother you--as it should ANY sentient human being!!
The question is NOT whether tithing is a commandment (tho I WOULD like to see the basis for that idea--or is that yet another "change due to revelation"?), but rather that was it EVER intended to be a REQUIREMENT for entry to heaven.
If tithing was intended as a Commandment, it would have been included as one of the famous TEN.
@42apostate Perhaps it would have been. I thought Moses was going to give more laws to Israel, but they were only able to handle the first ten. They did apparently have excess to give; it took a lot of gold to build the Golden Calf!
Well, what ever the reason (read "excuse"), they/we only got TEN.
Yes they apparently DID have excess. Where did that "excess" come from?--working overtime for the Pharaoh?--as SLAVES? More likely the gold was BOOTY stolen from other groups encountered in their 40 years of exile.
I guess it's okay to use "dirty money" to pay tithes with, eh?
AGAIN! Show us where it was EVER a "commandment"--as it is now in Mormonism. (FOCUS on the subject, cruncher!)
@42apostate like I said as well, the principle of tithing doesn't bother me ( a church needs money to pay the bills) but I just objected to your use of the word FEE for tithing, instead of gift, alms, donation, etc. Makes it sound like it's not voluntary, which it is. But I see your point of not liking it as a "get to heaven" requirement/commandment, and so using the FEE word in order to denigrate it. If tithing is a commandment, and Jesus said keep my commandments, then pay it!
I'd live it --IF Jesus said it. BUT HE DIDN'T say that.
ONLY MORMONS say it is a command.
I pay tithing. I pay it, alternately, to American Red Cross and to World Vision. I pay it as a "free will offering"--as it was ALWAYS meant to be.
I ALSO pay the CORRECT amount--10% of my NET INCOME. Translated for you: if I get a net paycheck of, say $2500 Yen and I have household expenses (food, rent, etc) and have $500 Yen left ( MY NET INCREASE) I pay a
Show me where JESUS, the Great Exemplar, paid tithing. IF HE DID pay, where did he get the money? From dead fish on the sea shore??--the same place he got his taxes from?? Give me a break!
This is stupid. The music is too loud to listen to the antis speaking.
LDStothecore 2 months ago
I am what I am and that's what I am, I'm Popeye the sailor man, toot-toot!
Sumytid 3 months ago
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For anyone who wants to know the real truth about Mormons, please go to Mormon(dot)org. There you can view the profiles of hundreds of members of the church, who talk about their experiences, beliefs, etc., and discuss why they are Mormon. I also have a profile on the site. To view it, just type "Terry" and "Omaha" in the search box. I am a Mormon by choice, and I tell you why. :o)
MormonSmurff 4 months ago
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MormonSmurff 4 months ago
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MormonSmurff 4 months ago
false god? we believe in jesus christ, god, and the holy ghost. we do not worship false gods
TheOriginalTG 5 months ago
Its hard to comment on the hard core bible thumpers. Just how many different churches are there in the Bible belt USA.? I bet every one of them probably thinks the other is doing it wrong. read your versus again from beginning to end dont skip to 24 cause it sais your right and he's wrong read 1 - 23 too.
vwflat4driver 5 months ago
doesnt it sound great to be able to just get every reward God has for us and all we have to do is believe in him. i mean i wanna rob a bank and kill my enemies cause they make me mad. I just cant do that in the LDS faith. THAT's it. Im becomming a christian. GOD will let me slide then. LOL.
mikemarco76 5 months ago
One heaven & one hell? God is crying for your stupidity. Read your Bible again & again & again
leSavaii 5 months ago
How does this guy believe that all you need is faith but not works to be saved?
YZ450f24 6 months ago
If Mormons can bang on my door and bother me with the idiotic tales of Joseph Smith's fiction works turned into a religion. ( sounds like L Ron Hubbard )
Than Christians ought to be able to bother Mormons. As an Atheist, I approve of exposing Mormons for the complete idiocy they preach.
Phalanx3800 6 months ago
These guys are sooo correct and made so much sense. I wonder why Mormon can't see the truth and how they ignore the true Bible. Why would anyone believe that God is from another planet? Mr smith must have been trippin on something when he made up that bizzarre story
snappy5 7 months ago
OMG people actually expressing their differences, dislike, opinions and beleifs with respect instead of bashing. Not sure if it was staged but it is definately refreshing and a much more christian approach that I can respect.
peaceliberty4all 7 months ago
These people are so close... but you should convert them away from religion full stop. There is no god, no jesus, no zombie is going to come save us, and no hell, oh no heaven either. Youl die, decompose and thats it. The only thing that will exist of you after you die will be the memories others have of you. religious people are crazy. wake up, this is all you get. There are amazing things in the natural world that you can be passionate about.
DaBluedude100 7 months ago
to all born again christians we are not saved by faith alone but by faith and works together it says so in the bible in (James 2 : 17 -22 ) ) james 1:22-24)
eskimosoldier99 8 months ago
Emma Smith catches Joseph shagging Fanny Alger......... Former apostle William McLellin: "Again I told her (Emma) I heard that one night she missed Joseph and Fannie Alger. She went to the barn and saw him and Fanny in the barn together alone. She looked through the crack and saw the transaction!! She told me this story too was verily true."
999LDS 9 months ago
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Joseph Smith lies to his own wife...... " A. At one time my husband came to me and asked me if I had heard certain rumors about spiritual marriages, or anything of the kind; and assured me that if I had, that they were without foundation; that there was no such doctrine, and should never be with his knowledge, or consent. I know that he had no other wife or wives than myself, in any sense, either spiritual or otherwise"
999LDS 9 months ago
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999LDS 9 months ago
Being devouted / good sincere and full of good works does not mean one is a christian, just someone who follows one of the many false religions out there. The Bible is clear, your works will not save you...Galatians 2:16 only Jesus Christ (not the brother of Lucifer). Guys, I am not concerned with your opinions/feelings (or testimony) I and concerned with what the Bible says .... and that is where Mormanism falls horribly short.
aacbailey 9 months ago
Laying aside the fact that no one, bornagain Christian or not, has the wisdom or authority to judge who's going to hell and who isn't, these folks have every right to express their opinion. But...that's all it is: their personal opinion. Much as they would like to think otherwise, they can't prove from the Bible that Mormons--or any other religious group they disagree with--are going to hell. I admire their perseverance, wasted though it is. These folks would make good Mormons.
JediLDS 9 months ago
I like how Matt Slick is the kind of person who will say "I don't want you to go to hell" when talking with Mormons. I've NEVER had a Mormon say that to me. Christians invite Mormon's over to dinner to talk about the gospel and I've NEVER seen a Mormon do the same. Mormons are taught to cover their ears and run when people present the true gospel. If that's not a cult, I don't know what is.
TopherBlairMusic 9 months ago
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JediLDS 9 months ago
well mormons...we owned you:)
Musicmksmyheartsing 10 months ago
“I think we may accept it as a rule that whenever a person’s religious conversation dwells chiefly, or even frequently, on faults of other people’s religions, he is in a bad condition.” –C.S. Lewis, Collected Letters Vol. 3 p. 209
pangea7777 10 months ago 2
this guy isnt screaming at them hes out there talking to them,whats wrong with that.
lilbeaveymac 10 months ago
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself by the fruit you see.
mollymu1 10 months ago
@ "The Christian teaching is there's 1 Heaven, not 3 levels"
That might be the traditional Christian teaching but that's not the biblical teaching. Uh, yes, there are 3 degrees of Heaven. It's still just one Heaven but with 3 degrees. Read 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 12. Guess this guy missed the part where Paul saw a guy go to the THIRD Heaven.
majinish 10 months ago
@majinish You troll and block? Your comment has vanished like Josephs gold plates. God is not a created being. Joseph lied to Emma, the congregation and he lied to you. You are following a prophet of doom.
awolLDSasap 10 months ago
mormans are a bunch of assholes and should be put in jail for their false teachings.
blarson12 10 months ago
Great job preaching to the unbelievers. BTW, this song is about accepting the devil as a friend and leader.
filoIII 11 months ago
check out 4mormon.org it is a site to help L.D.S understand the differance between Mormon's and Christian's. Mormon's do you have a relationship? Is he your
Savior if so why do you go to your temples? Roman 3:21-31 Roman 4:3-4 Psalms 150:1- 6 Do you trust Jesus Christ and what he did or do you close your eye's in hope Joesph Smith wasn't a false prophet! Look at the churchs history and how they manipulate what you hear and read about them. utlm.org Read what Joe claimed of his own works!
pappyforyou 11 months ago
Anti-Mormons=Haters=Anti-Christ
pangea7777 11 months ago 5
@pangea7777 What about people that disagree with Mormon doctrine, but don't hate and instead love them and want to give them their opinion on what they think is truth just like morons do others?
Doorsfreak128 10 months ago
@pangea7777
maybe hes pro jesus,and unfortunately Mormonism discredits him.understand we hes coming from.
you have 50,000 missionaries knocking on doors saying the bible is corrupted.two way street
lilbeaveymac 10 months ago
@lilbeaveymac actually the entire focus of our church is Jesus Christ, in fact, it is the name of our church...The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. We do teach the Holy Bible is the world of God. In fact, we read, teach and live by it's teachings every Sunday and every day of the week. It is a lifestyle following the teachings of Christ. For the truth about our beliefs go to lds dot org.
pangea7777 10 months ago 2
@pangea7777 you say you teach the bible as the word of god but you say its not trustworthy,and corrupted(yet you cant show what parts are if any)
your church wasnt always called that,and a name doesnt make something authentic anyways,you know that.
mormon.org,lds.org are sugarcoated nonsense.
plus you dont believe jesus is GOD!! and dont believe in grace and grace alone.
lilbeaveymac 10 months ago
@lilbeaveymac actually yes it was always the name of the church since the beginning of the Restoration. We only state that over two thousand years and multiple revisisions, edits and retranslations that parts have been lost, both intentionally and through translation. And yes there are many specific passages which we know that have been affected. We read/teach from the BIble daily, we believe Jesus is God and we are all saved by grace and if we love God we will obey His commandments.
pangea7777 10 months ago 4
@pangea7777 im glad you believe jesus is god,the doctrine teaches jesus is only our elder spiritual brother.
and your church believes in grace* after all you can do.its grace diluted.
maybe salt lake city knows more than the christian scholars because they not only disagree but can show why,not just say they know.you kinda teach the bible,you cherry pick verses,i was a member bro wc3rd ward,ca
it sucks the church is boring.same everyweek.
lilbeaveymac 10 months ago
@lilbeaveymac if you attended then you should know we also believe in the grace the gift of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. You also know we simply believe in letting our actions follow our words and not being hypocrites and giving lip-service only. God said "if ye love me keep my commandments" would you claim that we must only say we believe and do nothing? That is contrary to the gospel we must actual use it--it is a very practical gospel we can really use daily. It helps me better myself.
pangea7777 10 months ago
@lilbeaveymac ... here a part: "And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel." (Ezekiel 14:9) This verse makes it sound like the Lord can deceive a prophet, then punish that prophet for being deceived. Not true, of course. The Lord is not capable of deception. Good example of a translation error.
JediLDS 9 months ago
@lilbeaveymac "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." (2 Nephi 31:21) Jesus Christ is not God the Father, but he has the title of God, and is part of the Godhead, which is Biblical. (Colossians 2:9)
JediLDS 9 months ago
@pangea7777 Anti-Mormon=For-Christ
XBleach88X 3 months ago
Ms. Allice that comment was not so wonderful
sportsislife45 11 months ago
I actually live in Twin falls and go to college there. Almost none of my teachers supported these protests, even the non-mormon ones.
ThatHaloGuy117 11 months ago
This is hypocritical for anyone claiming to be a disciple of Jesus Christ to promote contention as these videos do. You can justify your behavior by calling it whatever you want but it is not Christ-like. If only you put this same time and effort into actually doing something good such as Christ actually taught. Helping the widows, the fatherless, those in need. For the truth about our teachings go to lds dot org
pangea7777 1 year ago
@pangea7777 for the Truth go to utlm.org L.D.S bring another gospel. What is hypocritcal to say it's not Christ like to contend for the faith when in the Bible Jude call's us to contend for the faith. I see you as more of a hypocrit for following another angel's gospel and singing praise to the man who taught Jesus and Satan are brother's? You shouldn't be telling anyone what Christ would do! Because you really don't know, What Chrsit did for you!
pappyforyou 11 months ago
@pappyforyou it is really hard to take anything you are saying seriously since all you are trying to do is misdirect and tell people another version of our beliefs, and you need to learn to spell. This is the 21st century spellcheck is commonly on all computers you can't even spell Christ correctly how am I to believe anything you have to say about my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ when you can't even spell His name?
pangea7777 11 months ago
@pangea7777 #1 Oh my! chastised by a mormon. Ok pal I don't understand what I said that wasn't correct. You sing praise to the man. You also need a testamony of Joesph Smyth(spell check! spell check!)To be baptised a Mormon.. You believe the Bible is translated incorrectly. Even though Christ said His Word would not fail (1st Peter 1:25)(Mark 13:31)(Luke 21:33) Yet you take Joe at his word? Why because another angel brought him another gospel. Gal 1:1-9.
pappyforyou 11 months ago
@pangea7777 #2 Test, brain child, how did this so called apostacy happen with 3 Nephites never leaving the Earth? Where are they now? Why in the B.O.M does God's Word not change,Alma 41:8 yet in your D&C we have sec 56:4-5 Where God's Word can change? Isn't that why you need a prophet to keep up with the change's. B.OM 1 God D&C plural God's. Trust Jesus and I won't need to use spell check, and you won't want a B.O.M, D&C, P.O G P, Jesus said my yoke is light my burden easy! Matt 11: 28-30.
pappyforyou 11 months ago
@pappyforyou yet again I say it is hypocritical for anyone claiming to be a disciple of Jesus Christ to promote contention as these videos do. You can justify your behavior by calling it whatever you want but it is not Christ-like. If only you put this same time and effort into actually doing something good such as Christ actually taught. Helping the widows, the fatherless, those in need. For the truth about our teachings go to lds dot org
pangea7777 11 months ago 3
@pangea7777 again I get your opion, on what Jesus would do! Why do you ignore what he did do? And utlm.org gives the unedited version of the church. You know the one where Joe had (documented) 33 wives 8 of which were married to other men and some as young as 14. Joe couldn't even keep his hand's off the babysitter. Did Moses say God comanded him to kill the egyptian? Did King David say the Lord told him to do all the awful thing's he did? Your hiding behind a veil of raised by Satan. Rev 2:9
pappyforyou 11 months ago
@pangea7777 what you call 'sugar-coated' is like saying going to the university to get a degree on a subject to educate yourself on a particular career is also sugar-coated. Would you suggest going to the churches who have paid ministries (ours are volunteer/nonpaid) motivated by money/prestige to gain members and to whom our faith is a percieved threat monetarily as well as doctrinally? I would never read an autobiography written by someone else-I would go to the source and find out for myself.
pangea7777 10 months ago 2
What about Seventh Day Adventists? Are they Christian or Cult?
chardie007 1 year ago
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I'm a practicing mormon, if you'd like to ask about anything they say in this movie, email me at tcldsquestions@gmail.com
tcorbridge89 1 year ago
Americans (southern states) are really screwed up. All religions are a joke but the Mormons are following a cult, more sinister than the usual hypocrisy of the Christian mainstream bible bashers.
TheFireHorseUK 1 year ago
Oozing the hate-filled love of christ here. Such hypocrisy and name-calling from christians is kinda' good in a weird sort of way. It helps people see how damaging all religion is to people and hastens its demise. Good job Christian bigots!
SammyHales 1 year ago
mormons are a deadly virus and the devils army..help break down their devil worship temples!!!
MsAlicewonderful 1 year ago
@MsAlicewonderful you are sooo stupid!,are that ignorant or better yet retarded?,dont come back here unless you know what the hell you are talking about you IDIOT!
solarflare311 1 year ago
Mormon is fake.
R0kmyS0X 1 year ago
@R0kmyS0X go suck a dick!
solarflare311 1 year ago
It seems that even though most of these Mormons who have posted on this thread, and 99.9% of every LDS member in the world has not read the Holy Bible, nor have they ever truly understood what their Book of Mormon says. This is the fault of their false church, not them... There is still time to truly understand what Mormonism teaches and how it is not Christian, or of God. See carm.org for factual proof.
NeoSwede1488 1 year ago
@NeoSwede1488 Christ's church isn't false. It was put on the earth by Christ Himself. I've read the Bible and Book of Mormon, we do believe in reading both. That's how I know the church is true because of the word of God. We are christians whether you want to believe it or not.
majinish 1 year ago
@NeoSwede1488 Don't read the Bible? Really? Cause last I checked, in Sunday school we were studying the New Testament. Is that not part of the Bible? Not only that, but in seminary, we dedicate one year for the New Testament and one year for the Old Testament. I have read the whole story of Esther and am going to read more of the Bible and not only read it, but study it. So, we don't read it, huh?
AragornHottie 11 months ago
@all LDS: Look at Mormon Doctrine and Covenants Section 135:3. Joseph Smith is compared to Christ as having [atoning] blood, and using his blood to save through works, not faith, which is not of God because Jesus says very clearly that only through faith, not by works will we be saved (Eph 2:8-9, Rom. 3:20, 28, Gal. 2:16). Believing in the blood of Joseph Smith is simply not Biblical, because the only [atoning] blood is by Jesus not man (Matt 26:28, 1 Pet 1:19, Heb 9:14).
NeoSwede1488 1 year ago
@NeoSwede1488 Wrong. The Bible says faith without works is dead. Faith + Works = Grace. If it doesn't take god works what was the point of the atonement?
majinish 1 year ago
@NeoSwede1488 just read the whole section and don't see how it's possible to twist the words written so badly. It does not say that Joseph Smith's blood has any redemptive value to mankind. The only comparison to Jesus is to say that he did a lot of work for the church, and therefore for humanity, and sealed his testimony with his blood. It does not say at all that his martyrdom trumps, or even augments, Jesus' sacrifice. There is no conflict with the doctrine of Jesus' atoning blood.
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@NeoSwede1488 WoW really!? I will give you credit, you are very talented at taking what was really said and twisting it and making it look awful to meet your own personal agenda! Seriously its absolutely ridiculous! MANIPULATION of truth, that's all your doing.
sportsislife45 11 months ago
Watch my YouTube channel. ALL of my movies carry a secret, anti-Morman message. WOMEN'S RIGHTS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Religion is NO REASON to hold down American Women!!!!!
DOCTORDANification 1 year ago
hey, the worst thing a mormon ever did to me was wake me up early on a saturday morning to tell me about mormonism. i was cranky, hung over, and tired. thats not SO bad. are they weird? yes. do they bomb other people or countries? NO!
MrDerby2u 1 year ago
@MrDerby2u
Hi, MrDerby. I'd be a bit careful about giving LDS ANY slack.
It's true, they DON'T bomb people. But I CAN see that potential in them as a relig. Org. given their Authoritarian bent--dictating to members what they can wear, eat, read and view. All you have to do is take the tantrums of LDS in these chats to see that, like their Muslim extremists counterparts, they would kill every anti-Morm. in sight--given the chance to get away with it.
42apostate 1 year ago
@MrDerby2u
Google for "LDS Mountain Meadows Massacre" to see that potential for yourself.
LDS, Inc. is, in several ways, just like Muslimism. Their god is a vicious prick--and their hope is to become just like him(IT).
That said, most LDS are good people. Let's just hope that the zealots we see here, never get to leadership/control positions.
Maybe a bit paranoid--but it's not like this scenerio has never happened before in history. Maybe somebody should have been paranoid with Jim Jones!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate So, just because some LDS correct the falshoods that appear in here, that takes us from the status of good people and suddenly makes us zealots?
JediLDS 1 year ago
@42apostate this is the stupidest comment I've ever seen anti write....
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Which?
The Jim Jones comment, or...
That most LDS are good people?
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate /// "All you have to do is take the tantrums of LDS in these chats to see that, like their Muslim extremists counterparts, they would kill every anti-Morm. in sight--given the chance to get away with it."///
this one....duh
42apostate 2 days ago
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Just judgin' by history! Read about the Danites. (Hint: shhhh...don't tell anyone, but you have to read historical accounts that have not been tampered with by over-zealous LDS historians!)
Also read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre--120 men, women and children massacred by LDS zealots--under the promise of protection, surrendered their weapons and then were systematically gunned down at point-blank range!
And you think there should be no concern there??
42apostate 1 year ago
@grunchem
DUH! yer seff...
Part of the duties of the Danites was to shed the blood (blood atonement) of those LDS apostates and disenters who DARED to speak out against Briggie and his dictatorial LDS policies.
The origins of MMM were the LDS teaching and temple ceremonies demanding revenge for the spilled "blood of prophets".
Origins of LDS anti ERA were LDS policies that subjugated women, ie., not equal to men (WHITE men). Same policies toward black men--not equal to whitey!
DUH!
42apostate 1 year ago
@JediThePreacher
And you want us to believe that YOU are NOT here to be "contentious"?? You arrogant, lying piece of hit (with an "S")!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Eh...I've been called worse, simply for correcting the falsehoods others post about the LDS church. Sounds as if what I do bothers you. It's a free county, m'man.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS
I most certainly IS a "free country"--(no thanks to Mormonism). It is under and well within, the "free country" principle that I choose to challenge the falsehoods of Mormonism--many are and have been clearly stated here--NONE of which have been, even remotely refuted by you so called "defenders of the faith"!
WHERE have you corrected the "falsehoods"?!?!
42apostate 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JediLDS
All I've seen so far is grade school level b'tching and moaning, crying and slobbering--AND making nothing BUT unsubstantiated claims, assertions and declarations.
Bother me? The thing that bothers me is that fellow humans would/could CHOOSE to be so DENSE!--just like some 6 year olds whose eyes glaze over when shown proofs that Santa is not real...
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Of course, you would never admit to having posted something false about the LDS church in here, so naturally, you would not see where I have corrected the falshoods.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS
Well, here's your chance to be that "Jedi Warrior" of your dreams.
Repeat for me, right here, right now a "falsehood" made by me against the LDS, Inc!
That's what I thought--all bluff and no STUFF!
42apostate 1 year ago
ha ha ha wow, Anti-Mormons are truly retarded XDD
Austionous 1 year ago
@Austionous
We may be.
But consider this:
*WE are not the ones that wear goofy, ass-stained underwear and call them "holy"!
*WE are not the ones making the assinine declaration that Jew's founded the Americas 600BC--right in the FACE of an abject LACK of proof!
*WE are not the ones that denied black the Priesthood based on skin color!
*WE are not the ones that practiced polygamy!
*WE are not the ones practicing a form of voodoo in temples.
Who is it again that's "retarded"?
42apostate 1 year ago
(Someone please wake me when this guy's tantrum is over.) :oP
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS
If you don't intend to counter any of the points made in the "tantrum" you might just as well do what most LDS do--get some sleep. You LDS have sleep down to a science!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate I have better things to do with my time than respond to posts from someone who's obviously got an ax to grind with the church. Your type is only interested in answers because it gives you more fodder for dissing on someone else.
"Practicing a form of voodoo in the temples." Besides being a false statement, m'man, it shows that you don't seem to have much respect for other's rights to believe as they choose.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS
I DO have respect for ones beliefs--except for the beliefs that are falsifiable in real time and with real facts. The ONLY "axe" I have to grind with the church are it's obvious lies that it puts out that only gullible COULD believe.
The concept of wearing underwear that have a magical property to "protect" the wearer is VERY like a voodoo amulet made of the foot of a chicken, the hair of a dog and the balls of a mosquito--all done to ALSO "protect the wearer", is a case-in-point.
42apostate 1 year ago
@JediLDS
Your moniker, "JediLDS", carries the connotation of being a warior for the LDS Church. Yet you come to this obvious "ANTI" video to "defend", and all you've done thus far is to cry, howl and complain. Hardly the image of a "warior". I don't blame you for running away, tho. Were I in YOUR shoes, I'd run away too. However, if I did run away, I'd certainly HAVE TO, in all good concience, change my moniker to "JediPUSSY". Maybe you should consider doing that--it'd be more honest!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Spiritual protection, m'man, spiritual protection.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@JediLDS
I don't consider "health in the navel, marrow to the bone and to run and not be weary, to walk and not faint" (words DIRECTLY FROM the LDS temple ritual) to be "spiritual protections". "Physical protection are implied--RIGHT IN THE CEREMONY ITSELF!
Bill Marriott claims his garments "saved him from fire" aboard his multi-million dollar yachet! Do a YouTube search "Marriott fire garments". Smarter LDS members than you think it DOES include PHYSICAL protection.
42apostate 1 year ago
so do I click "Like" because I'm glad to be informed about how close minded antis are or do I click "Dislike" because of how close minded the antis are?
One word for them: Either God is a God of Revelation and can teach new and more things to all his children as time passes on this Earth, or He has stopped being a God of Revelation and refuses to give us any more information and allows us to duke it out over a book assembled and reassembled a jillion times over the centuries. Which is it?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
If what you say is true about god teaching new things, perhaps you should throw out the idea that the LDS Church of today is "the same Church Christ established in the New T.", because they are CLEARLY NOT the same. Hell sakes, it's not even the same church JosephsMYTH established in 1830!!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate well, no, that would actually lend credence to the idea that new ideas and further teachings ARE added as his church is ready for it. Jesus didn't reveal all truth overnight by the seashore, it took MILLENIA through the prohets of the Old Testament to even get to the point where the world was even somewhat ready for the Gospel of Christ. You might as well claim Adam knew everything and there was no need for a Mosesor Elijah or Jesus.....
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
So, todays LDS Church was "expected" to change? I don't think that opinion of yours
hold up in consideration of the statements made by your OWN latter-day prophets and apostles TODAY who have stated many times that this church (LDS) is "the same church" Jesus organized at the meridian of time, and cites Ephesians to prove it!?
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
If I concede to your point, I must also concede to the equally valid claim made by the holy RCC, that their leaders, starting with President Peter, the prophet, seer, revealator and translator of THEIR early, maturating and growing and changing organization, such that when they introduced sprinkling baptisms and the symbol of the Cross, Mary's stature, the selling of indulgences, etc., I must ALSO recognise THEIR claim that these changes came about because of "revealation"!
42apostate 1 year ago
crunchem7399 (cont)
ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that the LDS prophet AND the Catholic Pope BOTH claim to speak to and for God Almighty--VIA REVELATION!
IF you were to do a point by point examination of "changes" made to the "original church", it would turn out that the NUMBER of changes made to both orgs would be IMO, nearly the same. Is "change" an identifier of the "one true church"? If it is, then your leaders are lying and YOU are right! If not, THEY are right, YOU'RE the liar.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate first of all, name calling will get you nowhere. I have not demeaned you with third-grader tactics. Others who wish to read the debate you try to present certainly cannot be intelligently swayed by "pants on fire" terminology. Secondly, you may feel comfortable addressing me as a memr of the LDS church, but I have not stated here if I am a member, or active, or inactive, or an agnostic, or a "free thinker" for that matter
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
STICK TO THE SUBJECT!
My proclivities and personality are not at issue here. The LDS church IS THE ISSUE!
Your LDS membership (or lack thereof) is STILL not the issue, although, you DO WALK like an LDS duck, and you ACT like an LDS duck, and you TALK like an LDS duck, so pardon me for assuming that you ARE an LDS DUCK (if you're not).
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate I'm trying to. But your angry language is distracting and a waste of 500 letter post space. Look, I could say that since you WALK like an ASS, ACT like an ASS, and TALK like an ASS, you must be an ASS. But, pardon me if you're not really an ASS. See what a waste of time that is?? (although, truth be told, you might not in real life be the jerk you act like here, you're just very passionate, and I can understand that)
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I don't mind being thought an ass by Mormons that I confront here with problematic LDS doctrine and history. It's part of the deal!
In person I would most likely come across as more charming, IF we were to sit down with no time constraints and no 500character limits. I tend to be blunt in order to be clearly understood without wasting words in order to be "politically correct" OR tactful. It's the nature of YT mechanics.
Even in person I'd be firm abt sticking to the subject.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate touche
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I have seen MANY LDS who come here pretending to be NON-LDS--as a means, I suppose, of giving their opinions in favor of the LDS view from the POV of a supposed position of unbisased neutrality. I just chuckle at their naivete'...
The truth doesn't need the assistence of LIES. Lies, on the other hand, DO need additional lies in order to perpetuate the first lie. That's the way the LDS Church works. JosephsMYTH lied and since then additional lies were necessary for support.
42apostate 1 year ago
@grungem
The LDS Church has changed since JosephsMYTH day--due mainly the lies (the first lie was revealed so additional lies were implemented to prop up or cover the lie. Those lies are revealed so ADDITIONAL lies are introduced. ALL the while the LDS Church is changing to meet the revealed lies.
The latest lie to cover up the fact that the church has "changed" is due to "REVELATION"!!
Dallan Oaks said, "My duty...is to protect the church AT ALL COSTS!!"
Including lying? Apparently so!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Then it sounds like the church is one big house of cards. When will it collapse?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
It's well into the process of collapsing--as we speak!
However, there will always be that hardcore element that can't/won't giveit up.
THERE still believers today in "Earth Centrism" and "Flat Earth".
Inspite of Christ's harsh treatment of the Pharaisees of his day there are STILL Pharisical thinkers today.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate contd as to the point that Mormon prophets make about the church being Chris's church. First, I don't believe any of us KNOW every detail about how the church was then. We only have a record, the Bible, written after the fact by some of his followers. Did they include everything? Were there parts left out? Would Christ's church have been different if the world had electricity, computers, and Mountain Dew? Who knows. Mormons claim to believe in the Bible, and then some....
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
That's the point! ALL we have to go on that can be used as proofs/evidences are what were written by witnesses at that time. To try to go beyond that is to enter the world of ASSUMPTIONS. Doing so is what is largely the genisis of 10,000 differing Christian religions--and for the same reasons, LDS is NO DIFFERENT than all the others--a bundle of man-created religious assumptions.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate contd and if the "and then some" happens to be made up, then = false church. If the "and then some" is actual truth (revelation) then we'd better pay attention.
I think basketball is the one true sport. Basketball today is the "same" as when Dr. Naismith drew it up, i.e. pass a ball around and shoot it into a basket. Oh but wait, there have been rule changes, like dribbling, shot clock and three pointers but it's still basketball, right? It's still the one true sport, right?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
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42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
That's called a "logical fallacy".
In order for it to be logical, basketball would have to call ITSELF "the one true sport" AND that GOD declared it to be so.
BB NOR Dr. Naismith (no relation the Mormon Prophet, NAYSmith) makes that claim. Therefore, your attempt at logic fails--miserably!!
Mormonism DOES claim exclusive truth.
Why make a claim if ya can't prove it?
Ludicrous!
The ONLY resemblence Mormonism has with basketball is the act of "DRIBBLING"!!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate It was ME who claimed in my example to make the sport the tue sport, not Dr. Naismith. Read it again. I think it makes my point very simply.
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I KNOW it was YOU that made the anal claim.
You were obviously making a lame comparison of basketball to Mormonism.
It was NOT just any old common member peon that made the claim that Moism is the one and only true ch.--it was THE FOUNDER that made the claim. In making a legit comparison it'd be Naismith, the "FOUNDER" of basketball, that would have to make the claim of "one true sport".
If you can'/WON'T compare apples to apples in your example--YOU LOSE!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate ok then pretend I am actually Dr. Naismith, somehow still alive and 140 years old, and I make the proclamation that basketball is still the one true sport even though the rules have changed a lot. Then does my comparison make sense?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
Comment removed
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
No. It STILL makes no sense. I 'm slightly surprised that you don't see WHY it makes no sense!
What you've done (attempting) is to create a hypothetical situation. Hypotheticals, in this setting, are nothing more than glorified fairytales, what if's and maybe's. I can't think in those terms--I had my fill of it as a Mormon. In science, and perhaps some other disciplines, hypotheticals may serve a purpose. Used in a religious context it's nearly always a BOGUS attempt to LIE.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate cont'd anyway, the argument that "whatever church changed the least must be the truer one" is silly as well. Perhaps the Druids or the Navajos have not changed their religion in centuries. I don't know. But lack of change in itself does not prove tuthfulness, any more than lots of change does. That's not the point I was making. Mormons believe in their Church's verity because of the apostasy, and the need for a restoration, not a reformation like all the Protestant churches...
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I agree!! (The one that changes the least is "true".)
Mormonism is the one that makes that claim--the ONLY ONE!!
It's not just "silly", it's ABSURED!!
That's like saying that my EXACT photo copy of the Mona Lisa is the same and therefore should fetch 50 million at auction just like the original.
But...that's the effect a mind controlling cult has on normal, functioning brain cells!
The idea of an "apostacy" is JUST as flawed as the "same church" concept!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate of course it is "expected to change".Has the apostate forgotten his Articles of Faith? #9 = "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and wonderful things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."
crunchem7399 1 year ago
Comment removed
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Nope! Didn't forget.
Name some of those "revelations" that would "change" the church from Briggie on down to Tommy Boy Monsoon.
Actually, it's been the frantic, even MANIACAL, need of LDS leadership to cover up the lies of the past by creating NEW lies that has "changed the church".
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate I was hoping you'd supply the list :) I can't think of anything significant other than polygamy and the blacks/priesthood one.
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
It's YOUR CHURCH!
YOU made the claim of that church "changing due to revelation". It is ALWAYS up to the claimant to support the claim. It is NEVER the responsibility of the respondant (me) to prove a negative.
You made the claim, YOU provide the list that shows "revelations caused change".
42apostate 1 year ago
@crushem7399
As for polygamy and black issues (the cessation of the original LIES that started them), it is VERY EASY to show that BOTH were halted due to PUBLIC PRESSURE--and NOT because of any "revelation". Read the Manifesto of 1890 and show where it indicates any "revelation" involved! It was merely a PLOY to get the US Army off Wilford's back. Polygamy (OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED polygamy), continued until at least 1910!
I'm Willy Woodruf and god tells me to stop PM, it wooda ended in 1890!
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
The Article of Faith that Mormons ought to pay more attention to is #11--allowing ALL people to worship, "how, where, or what they may"--inthenameofcheeziecrackers, Ramen!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate as far as I know, they do. Unless you're going to claim Gay Marriage in California a religion.....
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Wow! That statement came out of left field, didn't it?--more like the parking lot out side the ballpark!
That said, if the gay leaders decided to make it a religion and marched down to the State Licensing offices and BEGGED the STATE to give their approval of this new religion, how would that be any different than what JosephsMYTH did in 1830?? The State would likely grant the License to the gay community, as long as all paperwork was in order--as they granted ol'Joe HIS lic.
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Once okayed by the State, I WOULD THEN "claim Gay Marriage in Cali" A RELIGION!
Not only THAT, it would be JUST as much a legit religion as Joe's--from a legal perspective.
42apostate 1 year ago
Comment removed
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
NAME some of those "revelations" that god supposedly promised he would reveal and "may yet reveal" beginning with Briggie and on down to T. Toodlie Monsoon.
If there were ever a time that this world needed some godly help, it's now.
I remember one (ONLY one) by Hinkster, the one about "Thou shalt not have facial hair" for the men, and for the women, "Thou shalt not have more than one earring per ear"!
Now THAT was HEAVY-DUTY revelation!! The whole world REELED at that gem!!
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Yet in my day the LDS Church condemned all the OTHER Christian churches precisely BECAUSE they "changed". It's now okay, apparently, for the Mormon church to "change", but NOT okay for the other churches to "change".
That my dear friends is TYPICAL MORMONISM, ie., the ol' Double Standard is alive and well in Mormonism!!!
42apostate 1 year ago
We have a right to practice our religion. Plus i'm republican and so are many Mormons so I don't support gays getting married. And its not to say I don't like Christians or Catholics, my father is one, but the Catholics murdered thousands of Jews during the Spanish revolution and the Christians have to protest anything against their religion. Why do you protest us if we never did anything bad to you?
jpwill97 1 year ago
@jpwill97
Read about the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
THEN come back here and brag about how wonderful (and innocent) Mormonism is.
What you did to us (former Mormons) was to LIE about doctrine AND your history.
That hasn't hurt YOU, YET, because you are unable at this point to open your eyes and see it. The day WILL come when you'll see it for what it is--a lying, thieving cult!
42apostate 1 year ago
@jpwill97
Also, for the last 180 years Mormon leadership have been talking trash about Christians. Even the Book of Mormon does it (1 NE). LDS also have 60,000 missionaries out telling people that their churches are false--(an INSULT, in case you need to be told).
42apostate 1 year ago
@jpwill97 hey, the worst thing a mormon ever did to me was wake me up early on a saturday morning to tell me about mormonism. i was cranky, hung over, and tired. thats not SO bad.
MrDerby2u 1 year ago
what did mormons ever did? they dont protest, they dont blow themselves up, nothing. so, they marry a couple women in their time; big deal. it's kinda sad to protest someone like that...
MrDerby2u 1 year ago
@MrDerby2u
Please read my response above to jpwill97 on the same issue.
I would agree with you--IF it was JUST a "couple women" deal. It's MUCH, MUCH more than that. Google for UTLM. ORG for a broad view of LDS problems.
42apostate 1 year ago
"TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE"
(Luke 23:43)
Where was the man to whom Jesus was speaking at the end of that day?
The man was hanging next to Jesus on the Cross.
The man could not do any works.
The man could not do anything except hang there until he died.
But Jesus took the man's statement of faith "And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."
Where are "Works"?
There ARE none.Your religion is against the teachings of Jesus.
DOCTORDANification 1 year ago
If you are a member of an anti-Jesus cult aka a Mormon, it's not too late. Just go to Jesus and beg forgiveness. He forgives people, even after doing something that will send you on a Disney Quick Tram to hell like INVENTING A BLASPHEMOUS HOLYLAND IN UTAH and CHANGING THE BIBLE TO SUIT YOUR SEXUAL NEEDS.
DOCTORDANification 1 year ago
@DOCTORDANification ... Beg forgiveness for what? Believing in Him all my life, because that's what I've done. I read about Jesus in the Bible. Everything the Bible says about him, I believe.
LDS use the King James Version of the bible.
JediLDS 1 year ago
@DOCTORDANification hahahahaha but can't we all just beg for forgiveness and praise Jesus no matter what we do the second before the train hits us and we all go to heaven anyway?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@JediThePreacher
Malaria "dots the earth" too. Is that a good thing?
42apostate 1 year ago
@JediThePreacher
Mohammed prophecied Mohammedism would take over the earth. They are "converting" abt 90 million per year. They are well on their way...
42apostate 1 year ago
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42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate The ancient temples were filled with the finest of materials. Is the God of today not worth the same as the God of yesterday?
Dalessiokiller 1 year ago
@Dalessiokiller
Churches today don't have the luxury of going over to the neighbor tribe and steal THEIR property to place in their church. What makes sense to me is that, yes god deserves MUCH more than we can possibly give. God is NOT the prick the Old Testament makes him out to be. The REAL God is patient and understanding and will only ask of us that which is reasonable. He WOULD NEVER, ask a struggling widow living on a fixed income to pay ANYTHING. Tithing is based on one's INCREASE
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate which is why a woman living on Social Security alone does not HAVE to pay titihing ---- that income was already tithed by the breadwinner's income years ago........it'd be like saying that if I invested a thousand dollars (post tithing) in a CD and made fifty bucks I should pay $105 in tithing? That's crazy! The only INCREASE is the fifty dollars, hence five dollars tithing is fair
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I agree. That's the way it's SUPPOSED to be. But many LDS widows are GUILTED into paying, as are the 1000's of poor in Mexico and S.A. The gen. LDS population are told that they can't get to 1st deg' of CK if they DON'T pay that "fee". THAT'S reality. A few decent bishops will allow the poor to slide--UNTIL they hear GBH in S.A. telling the natives (PROMISING) that if they pay, no matter how difficult, they'll be "blessed". That's referred to as "guilt tripping".
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Please, don't forget Mark 12:41-44. The widow was blessed more for giving her "tenth" (actually, "all her living") than the rich guys. Jesus wouldn't exaggerate the blessings of giving donations and tithes, would he? Where's the guilt? Jesus was talking to the scribes, Sadducees, etc. and had just answered all their tough questions. Then he turned to the treasury and showed his disciples the real point of all his teaching with the observation of the widow's offering. Guilt?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I've said it before but apparently you missed it. I have no real problem with the idea of "tithing". Two ADDITIONS to the BIBLICAL tithing principle, by LDS, are these:
1. Changing the 10% of NET increase to 10% of gross income REEKS of corporate GREED!
2. Morphing the "blessing-of-giving" intent of tithing, into the payment of tithes in Mormonism as REQUIREMENT for "salvation in the highest degree of the Celestial Kinkdum". IOW, Mormons have to pay a FEE to live with God!
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Google is wonderful! First Presidency Statement 1970: "...members of the Church should pay 'one-tenth of all their interest annually,' which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this". Each member is to prayerfully decide how to interpret this statement. No member is ever to be told how to calculate their tithing. No member is authorized to tell another how to pay tithing.
Sounds like you just made up item number one. Why?
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Great! Now read my statement above.
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
#1 was from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE as a Mormon. It was the way I was taught.
What I was taught and heard ALL THE TIME was, "If you want NET blessings, pay on your net income. If you want GROSS blessings, pay on your gross income."
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate re number two: this description of tithing as a fee bothers me. The way I understand it, tithing is just another one of the commandments to obey. You know, like love God and love thy neighbor. Or thou shalt not kill, bear false witness, steal, etc. Tithing just happens to be a commandment, or request, regarding money or property. Why get so bent out of shape about it? I could live on 90% of my income fine, and so can anyone else if they want to. Better than animal sacrifices!
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Right! The "fee" SHOULD bother you--as it should ANY sentient human being!!
The question is NOT whether tithing is a commandment (tho I WOULD like to see the basis for that idea--or is that yet another "change due to revelation"?), but rather that was it EVER intended to be a REQUIREMENT for entry to heaven.
If tithing was intended as a Commandment, it would have been included as one of the famous TEN.
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate Perhaps it would have been. I thought Moses was going to give more laws to Israel, but they were only able to handle the first ten. They did apparently have excess to give; it took a lot of gold to build the Golden Calf!
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Well, what ever the reason (read "excuse"), they/we only got TEN.
Yes they apparently DID have excess. Where did that "excess" come from?--working overtime for the Pharaoh?--as SLAVES? More likely the gold was BOOTY stolen from other groups encountered in their 40 years of exile.
I guess it's okay to use "dirty money" to pay tithes with, eh?
AGAIN! Show us where it was EVER a "commandment"--as it is now in Mormonism. (FOCUS on the subject, cruncher!)
42apostate 1 year ago
@42apostate like I said as well, the principle of tithing doesn't bother me ( a church needs money to pay the bills) but I just objected to your use of the word FEE for tithing, instead of gift, alms, donation, etc. Makes it sound like it's not voluntary, which it is. But I see your point of not liking it as a "get to heaven" requirement/commandment, and so using the FEE word in order to denigrate it. If tithing is a commandment, and Jesus said keep my commandments, then pay it!
crunchem7399 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
I'd live it --IF Jesus said it. BUT HE DIDN'T say that.
ONLY MORMONS say it is a command.
I pay tithing. I pay it, alternately, to American Red Cross and to World Vision. I pay it as a "free will offering"--as it was ALWAYS meant to be.
I ALSO pay the CORRECT amount--10% of my NET INCOME. Translated for you: if I get a net paycheck of, say $2500 Yen and I have household expenses (food, rent, etc) and have $500 Yen left ( MY NET INCREASE) I pay a
$50 tithe.
42apostate 1 year ago
@crunchem7399
Show me where JESUS, the Great Exemplar, paid tithing. IF HE DID pay, where did he get the money? From dead fish on the sea shore??--the same place he got his taxes from?? Give me a break!
42apostate 1 year ago