Harlow's Rhesus Monkey Experiments and the Attachment Theory - Children's Rights

[Meresortsitar]

I support fathers' rights and I think they SHOULD be involved in raising children but I cannot see how do these particular experiments and researches prove that even toddlers need fathers?

[evenToddlers]

@Meresortsitar

Bowlby based his discredited theory of 'maternal deprivation' on these experiments. The aim of the video is to show the flaws in this method.

Many thanks for the comment!

Kingsley Miller

[Pringles352]

@evenToddlers No. He based it on a whole range of theories and experiments... This is just one. Many fit, however some dont, but as in psychology, there are reasons to why some dont fit

[manifestgtr]

hahahahahhahahahaha

that little monster thing was so ridiculous looking...probably the stuff of baby monkey nightmares for years to come (assuming the monkey wasn't immediately slaughtered after the cameras were turned off as seems to be an adopted practice nowadays)

[wheresthatcandy]

The point of the experiments was to show that the baby would prefer the texture likened to that of its real mother despite the fact that they received sustenance from another source. Not that an infant runs to its mother when it's afraid.

[evenToddlers]

@wheresthatcandy

Why does the monkey run to his mother?

Kingsley Miller

[bobzeda]

@evenToddlers

The "mother" provides some sort of comfort.

[BDill03]

@evenToddlers I feel the same conclusion could have been achieved by studying human children in different situations which would have eliminated the need for unfair and unkind treatment of monkeys.

[BDill03]

@evenToddlers right, I understand now that the experiment proves that the infant would turn to either parent (just watched again)

I still think it's unfair on the baby monkey (and also its mother) for it's real parent to be replaced by an inanimate object.

I'm not 100% against using animals for research or medical purposes when absolutely necessary but it should be done as kindly and humanely as possible.

[BDill03]

I've seen this before. Don't know why they need to do these experiments, common sense should tell you an infant turns to it's mother for protection.

They did it on human babies too years ago.

[evenToddlers]

@BDill03,

The aim of the video, and of this evenToddlers YouTUBE channel, is to make the point that an infant may turn to his mother or father for protection, not one or the other. I hope this makes sense.

Kingsley Miller

[yaztaz101]

@BDill03 back when harlow was doing these experiments, the concept of motherly love was rare, and thought of as dangerous to the child's developmental health...

[faqwert0725]

if its monkeys it must be harry harlow.

[huhhhhh15]

i cant bear to watch this its jus so cruel.

[katosteen]

i love harlows videos lol

[KealeCade3]

we watched this in sociology :)

[lesliegg1961]

are the comments here part of a diffeent experiment?

[evenToddlers]

@lesliegg1961,

The experiment is shown at the beginning of the video. There is another video on this channel called,

Harlow's Rhesus Monkey Experiments and the Meaning of Love - Fathers' Rights

Kingsley Miller

[SilverStarla]

you dont have to frighten a baby monkey to know that a child will run to it's mother when it's afraid! heartless morons

[evenToddlers]

@SilverStarla

Mother  or father (?)

Kingsley Miller

[CaptainCavemaNL]

@SilverStarla Lol...

[jodicen]

@SilverStarla im laughing at what you said only because its true

[CAPTNboobot]

did he have to leave the thing infront of the baby monkey even after they saw what they needed to see? poor thing is terrified.

[noratmedicine]

Not science and did not teach us anything...usual situation for animal experiments. curedisease. net shows why animals inc. primates are not useful models for humans

[evenToddlers]

@noratmedicine,

Thank you for these comments,

Kingsley Miller

[noratmedicine]

@evenToddlers Thanks. Incredible that animal experimenters are telling us that we did not know that we should show affection to our children until we saw that monkeys needed it. May as well say we didnt know that we needed to eat until we saw monkeys eating (if vivisectors could get away with that they would, Pavlovs dogs is not far off that). Then they made Harlow head of the american psych society

[evenToddlers]

@noratmedicine,

Of course my main concern is the impact Harlow had on the work of Bowlby.

I am more familiar with the work of Bowlby so perhaps you might already know whether it was because of Harlow that Bowlby had to ditch his theory of 'monotropy' and accept that children could attach to any so called 'surrogate'?

Kingsley Miller - kip

[noratmedicine]

@evenToddlers Not familiar with Bowlby sorry, however if his work was based on primates then at best it could only immitative of what epidemiological observation of humans, for which the the full spectrum of deprivation/neglect could be studied without having to re-create such a situation and which would provide species and situation specific evidence. In other words reality is better than monkeys. Attachment between adopted children and surrogate parents for eg.

[evenToddlers]

@noratmedicine,

Could not agree with you more.

Thank you for your contribution.

Kingsley Miller

[spegg89]

this is a bit brutal towards the monkies

[garan1234]

vespacurry get your head out of your ass this has nothing to do with religion or nazis or the holocaust it was a legitimate valuable experiment and you're comparing apples to oranges. None of the monkeys died as a result of the study and it brought no kind of harm to them. It was not immoral just because they evoked fear in the monkeys, fear is a good thing because with it comes the fight-or-flight response which helps an animal determine the proper course of action in a threatening situation.

[vespacurry]

Almost all the monkeys died. Do a little reading, you will find the report is quite sad.

[brotherbean38]

@garan1234 Get YOUR head out of your ass. This is a cruel experimentation. Nothing good coming from it. Just furthering the human legacy of destruction and selfishness. No wonder some tribes around the world have stopped having children. The fact that you find value in this is telling of how we as a species are so disconnected from our source.

[marisaecor]

@garan1234

While I do see the point of these experiments that Itard, Harlow, Aimsworth conducted and not to mention the recent study on Genie.. You do need to study up on these experiments. The monkeys went through irreparable mental damage through solitude and lack of affection that must be given during an extremely critical developmental period in primates and humans alike. This video is only one facet of the research that greatly helps the rehabilitation of abused and developing children.

[zosothedestroyer]

@garan1234 let's see....he wasn't satisfied with a fake mother, so they made actual monsters out of adult monkeys..."The other monkeys were brutal or lethal. One of their favorite tricks was to crush the infant's skull with their teeth. But the really sickening behavior pattern was that of smashing the infant's face to the floor, and then rubbing it back and forth." You should try reading a book some time slick

[garan1234]

@zosothedestroyer congratulations on replying to my year old comment that i completely forgot about, i dont even remember what i was saying to that dumbass, i would take the time to retort something but at this point i dont even care, i think youre just jealous though of my 6 thumbs up's....slick

[zosothedestroyer]

@garan1234 ur 6 thumbs up on a fathers rights monkey video, that really makes no sense? You must be very proud of that. Ur comments at the top bud, which means people are going to reply if its fucking stupid, which it is. You should probably delete your youtube account if you can't handle people replying to your comments, regardless of when there from

[garan1234]

@zosothedestroyer like i said, i dont care

[vespacurry]

Scary stuff. I doubt if this proves anything. Given a cage and nothing else, it hardly has a context. I get food from the fridge and sleep on the couch when I'm feeling lazy. So I think the couch is my mother. Its not what I call science.

[evenToddlers]

Please see;-

Harlow's Rhesus Monkey Experiments and the meaning of Love - Fathers' Rights

[vespacurry]

That means nothing. So do you think a man ( potential father ) who is conducting cruel experiments, would make a good father???? Is that your point.

[sidhucer90]

I would think it is Science, The beleif before this experiment was that primary drive of food fuelled attatchment in monkeys. All harlow showed that other sensory factors played role and the theory of attachment of the time needed to be revised.

[vespacurry]

I agree science may have though that...

If you look at how distraught the little guy was every-time he got shoved into the cage, its clear there was more to it than some wire mesh and a nipple. Look at the first shot, that is a stressed monkey. That is a sad thing to believe this was the only way this great knowledge could have been learnt. As I said earlier... an empty cage with no comfort as opposed to a small area with comfort... the context has no reality other than the void of science.

[sidhucer90]

Yeah it is sad especially when thier conciousness is close to ours, Cruel to say the least

[vespacurry]

The death rate was very high when they started to blow cold air into the cage.... I see the people involved went past the line of expectable behaviour and the real insight is watching the scientists. They are a study ... not unlike the motion the Nazis went through treating the camp victims... and justifying there actions under the golden banner of science and further knowledge.

[kalil0v3]

You're not an infant, you're taking the research far out of context. He was researching attachment, not whether or not the couch is your mother.

[SSXtrikE]

Yes, you may not consider your food storage to be your mother as opposed to a soft, plushy, comfy couch. But realize that these are underdeveloped species of MONKEYS, and infant monkeys at that. They do not realize the difference between "alive" and simply "comfortable". Knowing that even simple social creatures need comforting contact at such young ages is a step forward from "they bond with whatever is providing food/shelter/water" And any step forward is science in my book.

[vespacurry]

Linear thinking, a step forward you say. The Nazis also took the same foot step forward in the name of science they explained it by saying, "Better to go to heaven in a cloud of gas rather than choke on a mouth full of shit." I am quoting Philip Zimbardo "The Lucifer Effect" All experiments need an outside observer, so the participants don't fall to cruel practices. In the past the church did wretched things in the name of god, burning witches.....

[SSXtrikE]

Yes, but the Nazis were not furthering understanding and truth, they were futhering fascism and suppression of "dangerous" knowledge. That is not a step forward. The same applies to the Church, who were not attempting to teach or learn but to prevent people from swaying others' beliefs in thier religion.

[vespacurry]

Incorrect, modern medicine was the reason offered by the Nazi doctors... but that isn't the point, morals are, the Church / Science (Science being the new Church) are all guilty of the same evil. They exempt there behaviour in the name of some cause, you believe in Science, a Priest believes in God and the Nazis believed in the right to act toward others for there own selfish gain (born out of revenge). If you are studying physiology you need to read Zimbardo, then tell me you have the right.

[SSXtrikE]

I'll give you your argument on the Nazis, but the Church never followed through on their cause. At least science repays its occasional or even often lack of ethics and moral with tangible gain. The Church never produced anything of worth except for a mental disorder affecting so many people on this Earth today.

[keytoafterlife]

@vespacurry

I think you may have missed the point.

[schaapje111]

@vespacurry: And why do you sleep on your couch and not on the floor?

[longbluefingers]

i really think mr. Harlow had some childhood issues with his mother. :(

[vespacurry]

The church was saving your soul... it isn't important if you believe or not, the fact is they do and so feel they have the right to act out side the very morals they insist we all must abide to.

Science has no morals and this was defined by the Nazis... and the NWO of late. As Zimbardo points out, with out a Random variable or some kind of third party.. the experiment or condition has no control, morals fail and real evil take hold.

This is what has happened here.

[tataatthedisco]

u guys need to stop debating whether or not its ethical cuz its 1959, they had different morals then, regardless of its ethics you cant deny this provided valuable psychological data.

[deargcass]

Where did you get the Harlow footage from?

[SoraQuasar]

if you think a little deeper, fear is a natural thing, all animals AND humans need to deal with the fear so they can "move on". scaring the little monkey was not an abuse. think of this, if a mother leaves her baby alone for some time, it will be scared and will cry. is that an abuse? NO! the mother will return to the baby, and the baby will in time understand that he is safe and nobody will abendon him. but only with that process he will learn that. without this, he will be afraid forever.

[kmpisano]

If you research the study further, you will see that the monkey grew to have intense psychological difficulties in life. the experiment is cruel because although the monkeys have a mother figure, the "cloth mother" does not give them any of the necessary affection needed to develop healthy mental habits.

[SoraQuasar]

mmm... let me ask you something, would you have known that if Harlow never did this experiment? now, after this experiment, they got a theory and developed it. thats what theorys all about. and without this exp, nobody would ever got to the conclution that its not all about the touch, its about the effection and mental securness for the baby. its not that simple to just say this is abuse, and well, its not that simple to say it wasnt. it depends on so many things and seing the grater picture.

[turtleswaf]

well, i think it is very interesting. you have to remember that we may see this as cruelty, but back then there wasn't anything against it.

[honnamc]

How is this an intelligent experiment, scare the shit out of a baby animal and watch it run for the very the very thing that's supposed to protect it, isn't that instinct, there must be more to this, well I hope there is.

[alexshannonisbest]

the point to this is to see how the personality of the baby monkey changes, it feels protected by its "mother" and so changes from being scared to trying to scare the very thing it ran away from

[ta2joe13]

man i wish i could get a big gov. grant so i could do pointless experiments on stupid monkeys lol

[AnotherCompartment]

harlow should been sent to jail. he was a sick man.

[lasercat10cc]

This makes me very sad to see these animals suffing like this. Some would aruge that it has helped us understand that attchments are important however any loving mother would tell you this! Thank you for the informative video anyway.

[glovnhand]

god forbid any animal anywhere in the world should "suff"

[thecreepyguy]

Any loving father would know this.