Evil does not exist. Does cold exists? Most would say, yes. Cold, does not exist, it is merely the absence of heat. Does darkness exist? Most say yes! But really! All darkness is! Is the abscence of light. Evil doesn't exist! It is only the abscence of god's love in man.
but in all i think about it and what i think is that the Ying Yang is really accurate. now talking about the video can we really believe in every book? its written by man but i dont think every book is given by god.how can we believe in every book when in one he says not to kill but in the other ask to kill? i also dont believe in the vatican or goverments using the word of god cause its is said there be "many" false prophets in the end of times not that it will start there
i dont really know why evil is a bad thing (well in some ccases yea) but if theres no light theres no darkness but if theres light darkness will follow the light. like some actions can be evil to the eyes of ppl but in reality its a good thing for the ppl.if u kill a serial killer how many did u saved? but at the same time if u let the serial killer stay alive how many did u kill?sometimes good can cause evil but at the same time evil can cause good..
@reformedbro where you not listening? The Reformed Gnostic view makes GOD the Father of all Moral Evil, including lies-- yet we have Jesus declaring SATAN as the "Father of Lies", Not God... don't be like Eliphaz and misrepresent God-- in the end you'll end up "storing up Wrath" for yourself.
@reformedbro I was on the road to becoming a Reformed Gnostic (Modern Day Calvinism), until I came across this question I proposed;
Do people choose to Sin OUTSIDE of Gods Causal Deterministic Will & Decree? Or is it, BECAUSE of Gods Causal Deterministic Will & Decree, that people then "choose" to sin?
Calvinist definition of "SOVEREIGNTY" abide by the latter, thus making GOD the Primary Cause/Prime Mover/Architect/Originator/Source/Ultimate Cause/& Father of ALL Moral Evil.
@apollos6640 Hey, that's fine if you reject 'calvinism'. It doesn't matter what your position is, as long as if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, that He died and rose from the grave, that He is the only means for salvation, that God is completely sovereign over all things, that only God can bring salvation and not the merit of man, that there is only one God, and that the bible is the inerrant and inspired word of God. The rest doesn't matter to me.
@mfirebrand1 Don't forget about the Nephilim that were on the Earth even after the flood.A non-canonized but widely read book before and in Jesus' day was the Book of Enoch,it claims that the watchers(sons of God) sinned against the animals as well as the human women,it appears that they had knowledge of DNA and how to corrupt it,that would certainly make sense of why God wanted the children and animals killed.
@mfirebrand1 Don't mention it.Most Christians have never been taught the fallen angel view,they believe in the Sethite view or else they are just ignorant of anything unless it's in the New Test.,and they are at a loss for words when atheists call God a tyrant committing genocide.They forget that The Hebrews wandered in the desert for 40 yrs because they feared giants.Even if the people were all humans and it was just God's revenge,why kill all the animals unless they were corrupt in some way?
@vekl Calvinism does not make since and you are so dangerously deep in it. There are calvinist like Charles Spurgeon but then there are calvinist like you who go way to deep in this stuff. I almost believed in calvinism too but find many contradictions. Here are some....Calvinist say Christ died for the church this is true but 2 Peter 2:1 shows that He also bought the false teachers with His blood but they bring upon themselves destruction. continued....
@vekl Furthermore in 1 John 2:2 says Christ died not only for us (Christians) but also for the whole world. John 6:44 says God must draw men but the next verse in John 6:45 says those who learn of the Father will be drawn to Christ. John 1:9 Jesus Christ enlightens every man's heart. Acts 17:30 God commands all men to repent. Also the biggest thing for me in looking at calvinism is why does God and Jesus Christ get upset when sinners disobey and perish? continued....
@jbmanish If you're really looking for a debate on the issue, then let's set something up. I honestly don't mind debating atheists. Especially the ones that are very familiar with scripture!
@vekl For instance in Romans 10:21 God has held out His hand to a disobedient Israel. Matthew 23:37 shows that Jesus Christ wept over Jerusalem because they would not come to the truth. He would have gathered with them but they would not. Jeremiah 6:16 God tells this disobedient sinners to come down the good path and find rest for their souls but they said we will not walk therein. continued.....
@vekl There are many more verses like these in the Bible including Ezekiel 33:11 God does not enjoy the death of the wicked but would rather see them live. And here you are saying He does not want them to live?! Horrible. Even though God wants none to perish 2 Peter 3:9 because of His judgements disobedient sinners will go to Hell. God is sovereign. Also calvinist teach that God does not change His mind but Jeremiah 18:10 if they do evil in My sight I will repent of the good I intend them.
@vekl This is not about God's soveriegnty. I look in scripture and it shows that Calvinism is not biblical. You are very dangerously deep in hyper-calvinism. This is why I said there are soul winning calvinist like Charles Spurgeon but then there are diluted confused hyper-calvinist like yourself. I go to a calvinist church because they preach the gospel but I just disagree with their "doctrines of grace". Really you should examine what you are teaching. This is very dangerous.
@reformedbro1 look at my replies to your buddy vekl. I posted like 5 messages with scripture as to why I disagree with calvinism. I am in the word which is why I disagree with calvinism. I don't feel like typing all that stuff again so just go look at my messages to vekl on this video and you will see why I disagree with calvinism. Also you need to be careful what type of calvinist you are. There are good calvinist like Spurgeon but then there are hyper-calvinist. which one are you?
God isn't evil. In fact until God existence can be proven, it's a pretty lame discussion.
Instead, let's debate whether Tinkerbell wears too much eye makeup or how Superman's going to look when he get old and has to wear Depends with that outfit.
@dimbulb23 If you wanna talk about that, that's fine. It seems kind of boring, though. I'd rather talk about whether not atheism is true or logical. Let's talk about how atheism spawned the holocaust of many nations, and irrational means of debunking the existence of God. Now THAT sounds like fun.
@vekl Can you prove mailboxes don't fly when no one's watching?
Do you feel it's rational to believe they don't?
If someone challenged you on your disbelief in flying mailboxes wouldn't you simply say "Prove they do". And wouldn't you be justified in demanding their proof even If they said: "Prover your disbelief in flying mailboxes is true. Not whether or it exist but if it's tenable".
The burden of proof is on you. You claim there's a god. I see not reason to believe that.
@dimbulb23 "The burden of proof is on you. You claim there's a god. I see not reason to believe that." Believe me. I'm not worried at all about proving whether or not God exists. That's not my priority. The only onus i have is to TELL you that He exist. It's not my priority to convince you. You and I both know full well that there are plenty of other videos here in YT that prove the xistence of God, so I know that you're not looking for answers, but only an argument to win.....
@vekl What you call keyboard heroics is what I call having actually thought critically about the subject. I can't disprove god or flying mailboxes. So the question remains: Am I irrational in my disbelief simply because I can't disprove they don't exist? Isn't saying, "If you can't prove it, I don't believe it" a reasonable response in either case?
As for the Bible, trotting that out to prove god is like trotting out a Mailbox Flight manual to prove they have pilot's licenses.
@dimbulb23 Again, if you truly are seeking a meaningful conversation with little ol' me and want to disprove God, simply take up the challenge. That's all i'm saying. You're not irrational because you don't believe God exist. you're irrational because of your attitude toward iHis existence and my integrity.
@dimbulb23 2) No offense but i honestly do not have the time or patience to deal with 'keyboard heroes'. If you're truly looking to get into a cordial, rational, and academic discussion on this issue, then let me know and let's set something up. I'd LOVE to talk to atheists! Atheism only empowers my faith even more. So, if you think you got what it takes to disprove God and the bible, bring it!!
Terrible meant something different than how we understand it today. If you still dissagree or just want to be more accurate look at the original greek Holy Bible (its the first version = the most accurate version) and since part of this is Old Testament look at a original Jewish Old Testament. Same concept.
Those original Holy Bibles should sound something like "Interlinear Greek English New Testament" at least thats the one I have.
You are really stretching here to defend an un-defendable position to make excuses for this clearly man made God, with human frailties like, jealousy, anger and regret or remorse, oh and revenge. This man made God actually needs blood sacrifices in order to forgive, even to the point of manifesting himself in the form of a human as his son and still himself to offer himself as a blood sacrifice. He only seems to have had one solution for everything...blood sacrifices. Primitive!
@Zodslayer And your statements here are VERY arbitrary. It's fine if you want to assume and think that God doesn't exists, but that's just your opinion. It has no bearing on the fact that He does exist and that the bible is true. If you want to PROVE that God is man made, then show us evidence of it.
@vekl You are absolutely right, it is my opinion, like it is your opinion to believe in this. Now, I have been long past these sort of debates, because they don't get anywhere and neither side can sufficiently prove or disprove to the other side the existence or non existence of this God, so before we get into an un-winable debate, let's just say, I respect your right to believe whatever you want and leave me the right not to believe.
@Zodslayer Ok. Fair enough, and I sincerely appreciate your honesty. Thanks you. But that's NOT at all what YOU'VE done here! If you're going to make absolute and arbitrary statements about the existence of God in the manner that you have been, then the onus is on you to substantiate that claim. If I'm deceived, then prove it! Otherwise, perhaps for future reference, you should make it more clear that it is ONLY YOUR OPINION....unless you're prepared to back it up!
Isn't it hypocritical for people to turn on and off this idea that the children are responsible for their parents sins as described in the Bible, but in these current days, people will quickly tell you that they are not responsible for the terrible things their ancestors did to others in the past. It is really strange how people turn this on and off at their convenience. It is always a Christian who practices this hypocrisy.
Good, bad, right, and wrong is 2 sides of the same things. Example the rapist would experience rape as a good thing; pleasurable, happiness, ecstasy, complete expression of their will. The raped would experience rape as a bad thing; abuse, pain, displeasure, complete loss of will and control. Like wise, a lion killing and consuming a gazelle is good only to the lion. The gazelle would disagree. =)
The bible says God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil no one else created evil. But God created evil out of His knowledge not an innate Virtue of His.Knowledge of evil was used by God to create a powerless situation of the knowledge of good and evil.Man ate of the tree of the evil and good by knowledge, Man could not handle the knowledge, like God used it.God is the creator of the KNOWLEDGE of evil for good, to bring about redemption.God called the tree very good, though with evil.
If we find that an idea has to be both true and false at the same time, then the thing that idea represnts doesn't exist. God allows evil, permits evil, brooks evil, encourages evil, he himself commits evil...........but he's not evil? Some piece of logic that is! You're looking at a wall that is obviously painted red but you're telling yourself that is not red, and that it is white. That's an incredible amount of shoe horning to harmonize the impossible.
You didn't pay attention to the video, did you? That's a perfect example of 'selective' listening'. Please watch the video again, and see what I say about the word 'evil' in and of itself, and you'll see that there is no contradiction. It would only be a contradiction in the mind of an atheist simply because they cannot fathom the mind of God. Without God, you have no morality!
God did not make hu-man beings (which are both male and female). Humans are a developed race of slaves in spiritual Egypt. "Hu" is a pagan Egyptian God which represents "the spoken word" to pagans. See my video called "legal aliens".
@vekl Just your unfounded and unproved claim that "without God you have no morality" is in itself a prejudice pigheaded stance. You don't know me any more than I know you, but because I'm an atheist I don't qualify, based on your claim, to possess a shred of morality. This is you preconceived notion about people who do not embrace your belief. I embrace no religion, so by definition that makes me inherently immoral and wicked. How much different is that claim from the claim of a white.....
@pedrom41 "..so by definition that makes me inherently immoral and wicked...." This is another one of those deliberate misinterpretations that i get so many times from atheists. I did not imply that because you are an atheists that you were immoral. I know and believe that all atheists can be just as moral as any theist. Regretably, I'll even admit; sometimes more moral.
@vekl #2....supremacist who says that blacks are stupid and inferior for no other reason than being black? Or that women with blonde hair are dumb? You ignore the fact that there are millions of people who are parents, scientists, doctors, professors, ingeneers, wives, husbands, career people, good law-abiding citizens serving their community and their country in some capacity or another who happen to have no religion as their moral guide--or atheists, if you will. Only religion could.....
@pedrom41 2. But YOU as an atheists have no basis for morality. You have no logical argument to claim what is good or evil OUTSIDE and/or APART from your own subjectivism. All you have is that something is evil because it 'brings discomfort or inconvenience'. You don't have anything substantially absolute. Truth, in and of itself is absolute, immutable, transcendant, and autonomous. Subjectivism, emotion, assumpotiuon, is not.
@vekl No vekl, we are not going to arrange any meeting between you and I outside of YOUTUBE to debate about this topic. Why? Because I'm answering to your video posted on here for everybody to see and comment. So all the arguments belong on here for everybody to see as well. Now, You are in no way obligated to respond to my comments if so you choose. You can simply choose to ignore me and that's fine by me. After all this is just a debate we're having over the claim in your video--nothing more.
Oh, so you think I wanna 'hide' our debate? You think I'm afraid of whatever you think you have to counter my position? No, no, no. I WANT it to be PUBLIC. YOU AND ME! i WANT EVERYBODY to see your answer and mine.
@vekl #2 Now, in nothing that I wrote I made any claim whatever to having anything "substantially absolute." I shouldn't! And neither should you, but you took the presumptuous liberty to do it anyway by blatantly claiming that: "morality is from God", thus you, not me, making it "absolute" and universal. You also proclaim that we--atheists--"have no basis for our morality." Well, what is your basis for your morality? And is it absolute? And more importantly--can you prove it? Then you went....
@pedrom41 #2. Here's the problem with the atheist' view of morality; in order to determine whether or not somethig is right or wrong, the atheist has to BORROW from the theists' world view. You can claim til you're blue in the face that rape or slavery is wrong, but YOU as an atheist cannot give an absolute logical account for WHY it's wrong. I don't wanna hear nothing about FEELINGS or INCONVENIENCE. I want ABSOLUTES. But apart from your subjectivism as an atheist, you have no account.
@vekl #11...So what is the basis of morality of the believers? Most believers would answer: "The Bible!" Well, let's check the Bible. If you disrespect god he would have your wife rape and your children killed while you watch (II Samuel 12). God angry at Pharaoh and killed all the innocent firstborn male of Egypt (Exodus 12:29-30). God blessed the bastard offspring of an act of incest between Lot and his two sexy daughters (Genesis 19:33-34).
@vekl #3...to say that "atheists have borrowed from the Christian world view which stems from the 10 Commandments." I say to you, you must be dilutional! (No offense intended) But for the sake of argument, let us see what the so-called 10 Commandments has to offer as a morall guide: 1)Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Is this an admition that there are other gods besides him?) 2) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. 3) Remember the sabath day, to keep it holy....
@pedrom41 #4. Now, I'm not and nor would I ever say that all atheists are immoral, but they most DEFINITELY are under no obligation to be moral either. Again, go on ahead and say something is wrong, but you as an atheist don't have any absolute ultimate authority to base it on that is both autonomous, or immutable. All you have is your subjectivism. That's it.
@vekl #3.....suppose an unjustified certainty to be an improvement on ignorance. Believers, like yourself, insist that morality comes from a deity for which there's no empirical testable evidence whatsoever--making it absolute and universal, yet, it is by no means self-evident that our sense of right or wrong and the codes of behavior we are expected to follow, come from a supernatural source. How do we know and how can we know this unseen moral agent exists? For most people, the existence....
If you REALLY want to get into a debat over this issue, then why not you and I set something up? I really and honmestly do not have the patience to continue going back and forth thru the comments section. I would gladly debate you over this issue of morality anytime. You just name the time and place. But to respind to your statement about 'moral and atheistic countries', who cares? That still doesn't answer the question about moral absolutes.
@pedrom41 #5 The onus is on you to show me, from an atheist' world view WHY something is wrong, and once again, that ulitmate authority cannot be derived from man neither can it be changed by man, or subject to man. Can you as an atheist give me an absolute logical answer to how YOU know something is ultimately moral or immoral? Let's hear it!
@vekl A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
(Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930)
@vekl #4....of god is something they learn from earliest infancy; and they rarely think much about it, for if they did, they'd find that the arguments traditionally given to justify the existence of this supernatural being have some serious flaws. Suffice it to say that no argument for the existence of a trascendent deity has proven to be generally persuasive or has withstood rigorous philosophical analysis. If the existence of this moral agent cannot be proven, how can one argue that....
@pedrom41 4. You can give me a list of all the so called moral atheists in the world. It don't matter. The fact is that none of those moral atheists can still give an account as to why something is right or wrong. In order for you or any of them to do so, you have to borrow from the Christian world view which stems from the 10 commandments. Prove to me WITHOUT your assumptions, emotions, subjectivism, or opinion that something is right or wrong. As a matter of fact, PM me s we can conclude this.
@vekl #12...Biblical guidelines are given for beating slaves (Exodus 21:20-21) Lot offers hi two virgin daughters to be raped by an angry mob (Genesis 19:6) God orders to have the Amalekites killed...."men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (I Samuel 15:2) God has no beef with a man who rapes a woman as long as he gives her father a few bucks and marry the victim. (Deut. 22:28-29). God had 42 children killed for calling a guy baldy (2 Kings 2:23-24)...
@vekl #5....morality is grounded in his commands? Religion and morality have never been synonymous, nor religion has ever been the underpinning for moral consciousness. This is an unfounded prejudicial assumption among many believers. Fof if religion were the underpinning for moral consciousness, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch-Hunt and the priests child rape and child molestation, right in the church, would have never happened! We can read the Bible and find all kinds of immorality...
@pedrom41 "Religion and morality have never been synonymous," Wow! This is probably the most hypocritical and contradicting statement I've heard from you so far. And I suppose that you think that atheist is MORE synonymous with morality? Well, guess again, friend. You need to look at your history books again and see what type of atheists were responsible for genocides of millions of people.
@vekl #13....Is this the book you get your morals from? You probably see nothing wrong with those few passages I pointed out because theists insist that god is the source of morality, and that actions are only "good" or "bad" to the extent that god makes them so. If you believe that morality is guided by this god, then you should realize that your religion provides no objective basis for judging anything as absolute right or wrong. A morality based on the absolute say-so of an unseen deity....
LOL!! Look. I'm not gonna sit here and read all 17 of your comments here. I just don't have the time or patience for it. If you really want to have a thorough discussion about this, then PM me and we'll continue from there. And it is not about hiding anything from anybody. Again, if that is what you're worried about, then I PUBLICLY challenge anytime. And everyone is seeing me write this to you!!! If you don't want to debate me, then at least PM me. I have nothing to hide, guy!
@vekl OK vekl, fine, if you choose not to read them that's ok--no harm is coming out of that. And for the record, I never implied (and I wish you believe me) that you were trying to "hide" anything. It's obvious to me that you're more than capable of sustaining an argument on this matter--whether in private or in the open.....but so can I.
@vekl Finally, I'll say this then I'll say no more. Even [if] we atheists could not explain to the satisfaction of the theits the existence of "objective value" and "moral facts," that doesn't contingently entails that, first, the argument for a supernatural being is valid, and second, that our moral conduct is inherently depended on it's existence. Pointing to an unresolved philosophical dilemma doesn't tangibly demonstrate the existence of such a being. Best wishes to you. Peace!
@vekl #14...seems to me no less arbitrary than the relativistic morality that theists decry. If god is free to decide what is "good", and is good by virtue of his decree, then god has no higher standard to answer to . Therefore, his will may be seen as genuinely arbitrary. Although god once decree that murder and rape are morally wrong, he might have declare the opposite just as well, thus this would make morality arbitrary. If right and wrong are inherent to the action regardless of god's....
@vekl #15....decree, then god has nothing to do with the process. God doesn't set moral standards--he follows them--and is, therefore, irrelevant to morality; except to the extent that he can tell us things which we couldn't figure out for ourselves. Other human perceptions also have the appearance of being normative. For example, most people would agree that chocolate is "delicious," while dirt is not. By the same reasoning as the argument from normative morality, it could be argued that....
@vekl #16....there must be some ultimate standard for "deliciousness," and that must be this god--the ultimate tasty treat. But then again, we could use similar argument to prove that this god is the definition of the perfect homoxesual lover. And even if I were to accept that the source of morality is a god, why should I believe that is your god to the exclusion of hundreds of other gods?
@vekl #6....wicked and vicious atrocities sanctioned, encouraged and/or committed by the god of the Bible. So if you believe that morality is guided by the will of this supposed "moral giver" then you must realize that your religion provides no objective basis for judging anything as absolute right or wrong. Moreover, a morality that is contingent upon fear of an unseen deity or fixed upon a promised reward, seems to me to be of a lower order than what you assume to be autonomous morality.
@pedrom41 #3. You see, guy. My whole point in this is that in reality both of our positons can only be truly argued from a subjective standpoint. You say something is wrong because you don't like it or that a group of other fallible, mutable, and unautonomous people got together and DECIDED that something was wrong. But I say that somethig is wrong because of the God of the universe says it's wrong.
@vekl An error in my part. Commandment 3) is actually commandment #4, and commandment #2 should be #3; for commandment #2 actually says: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. But I presume you know the 10 Commandments by heard, so my mistake should not confuse you, My bad. Anyway, here we see that this god wasted 4 commandments on himself--proyecting a sign of vanity and insecurity. Let's continue. 5) Honor thy father and thy mother. Well, I never neede any commandment to respect....
@vekl #5....and honor my parents. I've respected my parents for as long as I can remember long before I heard any such a thig as the 10 Commandments. But what about if your parents are doppers, or criminals, or murderers, or child molesters? In addition, Jesus said in Matthew 10:35-36: "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his household." This is quite interesting....
@vekl #6...6) Thou shalt not kill. So was it wrong to kill the NAZIS? What about if you find a man raping your wife or child? What about all the people the god of the Bible killed and'or ordered to kill? Well, I guess the rule doesn't apply to god, might makes it right. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. (This is actually a redundance of commandment #10. 8) Thou shalt not steal. This is certainly a nice one, but not all that original. The Book of the Dead contains 40 or 42 commandments.....
@vekl #7...in which one can find similar commandments. 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10) Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's house and wife. Now, granted the story of Moses's was borrowed from earlier Greek, Rome, and Persian cultures, is that really the best a transcendental moral agent could come up with? Your god is rather strange. He takes offense if someone worship other gods but it never occurred to him a commandment against rape, slavery, abused wives, and child molestation....
@vekl #8...No society can exist without a law or laws that prevent citizens from slaughtering one another whenever they fell like it, or take whatever they want from someone else without consent or approval. Thus these laws have existed since pre-biblical times. The moral argument of the theist sounds something like this: "If God doesn't exist morality doesn't exist, but morality does exist, therefore, God exists. This is a "deductively" valid argument, which is to say if its premises are true.
@vekl #9...then its conclusion cannot be false. But the key question here is: "Are the premises true? While many believers take this premise for granted, the reasons for thinking it's true are not clear, and there are some serious objection to it. For example, John Calvin didn't believe in free will; therefore "if God exists, free will doesn't exist; but free will does exist, therefore God doesn't exist." Also, the Euthyphro dilemma is found in Plato's Euthyphro, in which Socrates asks:
@vekl #10..."Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" In layman's term this would be: "Is that which is good commanded by god because it's good, or it's good because god commanded it?" Both options are problematic for those who would claim morality is dependent upon god. But if the existence of god cannot be proven, and has never been proven, how could anyone argue that morality if grounded in a few commands not very impressive?
@vekl #17 And for the record, I never said or implied that atheism was the underpinning for moral consciouness. What I said was rebuttal to false notion of many that religion and morality are synonymous, and I went on to explain why this is a fallacy. There are many Christians in prison for committing crimes, and there are atheists in prison for the same reason. But the Christian didn't commit a crime because he's a Christian anymore than the atheist committed his because he's an atheist.
I don't believe in god or the bible, but I do recognize how they influence society. I don't believe in the scriptures quoted here, but they do bring up some very interesting points. Well done.
God creates evil by withdrawing himself this is why Christ said why have thy forsaking me (cold is the absents of heat, darkness is the absents of light). Also the amaleks were descendants of the nepheilem or fallen angels and their bloodline carried the gene of the giants of the days Noah day that is why God destroyed the earth with the flood only Noahs DNA was untainted (Noah was perfect in that day)
God ordains all our leaders and most all our leaders are evil,Obama was ordained and he is certainly evil,look at all the Chicoms or the Muslim leaders who are wiping out the Christians.The thing is though,the evil that they do is exactly what they want to do,so they are held accountable.
Great video. I really learned a lot from your wonderful exposition. Keep up the good work. Lots of people. Don't even read the Bible, yet they have their own erroneous opinion about it. I hope this video help lots of people to make up their minds are to read the bible and find the truth for themselves. Hopefully they will find the guidance of they need to be saved. I pray for us all.
I know your trying to preach the whole counsel of God but is this really necessary. The message of the cross is offensive enough that we don't have to make unbelievers unecessarily. This is no done in hate, just want to dialogue my brother
I understand where you're coming from, but the truth of the matter is that when the non-believers read the bible for themselves, they will eventually come to these aspects of God. What then? Should we take those verses out of the bible? Of course not. We should preach the truth and nothing but the whole truth.
OH So NOW GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF SIN LOL SO THE HAITIAN EARTHQUAKE AND EVERYTHING BAD THAT HAS HAPPENED ON THIS EARTH WE CAN BLAME GOD FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU HE "ORDAINS" EVIL LOL IF THIS IS THE CASE THAN ITS GOD THAT NEEDS REDEEMING NOT US NOT ONLY THAT THIS REDUCES GOD TO THE STATE OF MAN WHICH IS FALSE PREACHING SATAN IS EVIL AND THE AUTHOR OF SIN YOU TWIST SCRIPTURE TO FIT YOUR THEOLOGY AND YOUR DOCTRINE INSTEAD OF JESUS(1 Corinthians 1:19)(matthew 15:9)(mark 7:7-8)
It truly is very sad that people are so blinded by their traditions and emotions of who God truly is. If the bible does not say these things about God, than you must prove it before you begin to whine about Him not being the way YOU want Him to be. Prove it!
GoD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AND FORGIVES(PSALMS 103:8)(NUMBERS
14:17-19) BUT HE IS ALSO JUST AND HE PUNISHES SIN BUT IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE GOD GIVES THEM ALOT OF TIME TO REPENT OF THEIR SIN AND THEY WONT SO THE PUNISHMENT IS FAIR SOME PEOPLE WILL NOT REALIZE WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG UNTIL THEY GO TO HELL BUT EVEN IF GOD DID GIVE THEM MORE TIME TO REPENT ON EARTH BEFORE THEIR PUNISHMENT THEY STILL WOULD NOT HAVE REPENTED AT LEAST IMO THEY LOVE SIN THATS HOW BAD THEY ARE BUT THAT WAS THEIR CHOICE
Not everyone will accept this teaching, except those who are truly of God. When you omit these aspects of God, then you lie. God is no respecter of persons, so therefore, if someone refuses God because of a certain aspect of His nature and character, then they are not His sheep. I hate to sound harsh, but that's the truth. It's in the bible. I cannot water it down.
Not everyone will accept this teaching, except those who are truly of God. When you omit these aspects of God, then you lie. God is no respecter of persons, so therefore, if someone refuses God because of a certain aspect of His nature and character, then they are not His sheep. I hate to sound harsh, but that's the truth. It's in the bible. I cannot water it down.
vekl thank you for your thoughts they are very enlightening. people need to realize that when you poke the bear you get the claw. when you embrace god and follow him you will receive his love. god is holy he doesn't have to tolerate sin. if he decides to allow you to repent and earn his love he will and iam sure he has.
Good video. Just a clarifying note: atheists such as Richard Dawkins (& myself) don't "accuse God of being a megalomaniacal genocidal tyrant." Rather, our position is that the ancient pre-scientific world looked at things like the "anger" of nature (storms, earthquakes, etc.) and made up stories about "angry gods": Zeus, Thor, Jehovah, Kali, etc. And for these gods, the ancient authors projected the characters of megalomaniacal genocidal tyrannical kings and pharaohs and the like.
A picky point perhaps, but too often theists will accuse non-believers of being "angry at Jehovah," but that's like saying we're "angry at Zeus." But we simply see no evidence to believe in these ancient tales—and given the unpleasant natures of these gods' personalities, we feel fortunate that they exist only in the minds of their believers.
Well, there are in my opinion two types of atheists. There are ones who just simply don't believe in God and leave it at that, and then there are those like Dawkins, and Barker who not only believe there is no God but they want to evangelise it. Rather than just leaving well enough alone, they feel it's their duty to spread the hatred towards God around. It's not only about lack of belief.
Just as there are *many* types of Christians, I would say there are many types of atheists too. (And just like the variety of Christians, they can be educated, uneducated, intelligent, unintelligent, open-minded, close-minded, etc.)
> There are ones who just simply don't believe in God and leave it at that, and then there are those like Dawkins, and Barker who not only believe there is no God but they want to evangelise it.
Yes, there are definitely those two extremes, but there's lots of room in between. For example, some just want to explore the question "Is there a God, and if so, do any of the thousands of religions out there really represent a communication effort from this Creator?"
Some atheists just want to discuss the mental anguish that resulted from their mounting cognitive dissonance: *wanting* to believe but becoming increasingly dismayed by the way the evidence pointed away from faith. My favorite atheist in this category goes by the YouTube channel name of "Evid3nc3." He's an ex-Christian who speaks very warmly of his days as a Christian, and certainly doesn't fall into either extreme that you mention.
Evid3nc3 has a great video series called "Deconversion"—it's probably the best series I've seen on YouTube.
> they feel it's their duty to spread the hatred towards God around. It's not only about lack of belief.
Again, I think "hatred towards belief in fictional gods" is more accurate than "hatred towards God." But I certainly acknowledge that there are atheists who are more interested in ridicule than in discussing the issues, and I find such atheists embarrassing.
You feel it's their duty to spread the hatred, but for what? How can you hate something or someone that doesn't exist in your mind? It seems like you're only looking for a fight. Your goal in your videos and logic seem to prove nothing but hatred towards God. I don't think that you want to converse. You only want to win an argument. I still desire one atheist to come up with a very good explanation as to why God does NOT exist.
> How can you hate something or someone that doesn't exist in your mind?
Speaking for myself, I don't "hate" the claims of organized religion—be it Hinduism, Judaism, Jainism, Christianity, Islam, etc.—I just view them all as man's guesswork in explaining creation, suffering, rules for living, and the afterlife.
Let's say a Hindu approached the both of us and said we risk being reincarnated into cockroaches because we're not obeying the Brahman's Divine Law of the caste system. I think it's fair to say that we both feel free to dismiss "Brahman's dictates" not because we "hate Brahman," but we both feel that Hinduism is just something made up by ancient people: it has no Divine Authority.
I suspect that you & I both have similar feelings about all non-Christian religions: we dismiss them as man-made guesswork—that these non-Judeo-Christian "holy books" are compilations of folklore & legend & myth & perhaps a little genuine history as well. The difference between us is that I extend that same conclusion to the Bible.
I feel reasonably certain that nothing I say will ever change the mind of a "true-believing" Christian—and such believers are not my target audience anyway. My target audience is only those who are already on the fence, and feeling the anxiety of cognitive dissonance as their thoughts clash inside their head (Genesis vs. science, the problem of suffering, biblical contradictions, etc.).
> Your goal in your videos and logic seem to prove nothing but hatred towards God.
I don't "hate God" any more than you hate the Hindu god Brahman or the Greek god Zeus. So comparing our feelings toward Brahman & Zeus & Yahweh & Thor & the Japanese gods & the Native American gods, we're in agreement on 5 out of 6.
Extend this list to the world's religions throughout history, and we agree on (roughly) 99,999 out of 100,000.
> I still desire one atheist to come up with a very good explanation as to why God does NOT exist.
For better or worse, I have no strong interest in discussing skepticism of "a Creator"—my videos only discuss skepticism of what organized religions claim to "know" about such a Creator. I discuss this subject in my video 'Three advantages to questioning "the Creator's Word" but not "a Creator"' (/watch?v=l3lye16mJvQ).
It's good to hear both sides. So, I definitely cannot argue with you on that. However, your views and teachings could also be a detriment to an indivdiual's faith...But then again, if they turn away completely, as did Barker and so many other alledged former Christians, then it would only validate what the bible says about false converts.
Fair enough. Now for the first of many questions to you is, how do you define whether or not the bible is historically, or scientifically or prophetically accurate?
> how do you define whether or not the bible is historically or scientifically or prophetically accurate
Just to take a shortcut here, I've studied Christian apologetics enough to know that apologists have answers for all the questions that skeptics raise: the 6-day creation vs. modern science, biblical contradictions, the way Bible borrows from prior religions, etc. That is, I know you can offer counter-arguments to all my reasons for doubting the Divine inspiration of the Bible.
So I don't think we'll get anywhere . . . which I don't mind, for as I mentioned earlier, my intent is not to try to convert believing Christians. Because even if it wasn't mostly futile (and I know it IS mostly futile!), I also realize that *many* Christians are probably happier with religion than without, and I have no wish to make people unhappy.
But if you're still interested in why I doubt the divinity of the Bible, I give an overview in my 7-part video series called "Using the Socratic Method with Christian Proselytizers."
Parts 1-4 discuss the common ground between the Christian and the skeptic (at least, a "deist" skeptic, which is the position I take) on why we have firm ground for doubting the divinity of non-Christian religions, and in Part 5 I offer my reasons for why I think Christianity is just as suspect as all the non-Christian religions.
Well, to be totally honest with you Todd, the fact is that both of our beliefs ultimately depend on faith. I as a Christian, I honestly cannot empirically prove to you the existence of God, but no more than you can prove to me that He does NOT exist. Just because there things we cannot comprehend or understand, does not negate the reality or validity of a certain person or thing. But I'm glad that you're at least one of the more cordial atheists! :)
> Well, to be totally honest with you Todd, the fact is that both of our beliefs ultimately depend on faith.
A great video ("great" in my biased opinion!) on this subject is by the popular YouTuber "QualiaSoup" called "The Faith Cake" - /watch?v=SlaCq3dKvvI (it's at the current top of my Favorites).
> But I'm glad that you're at least one of the more cordial atheists! :)
I was never a Christian myself, so I'm arguably not qualified to comment on the argument "*real* Christians never convert." But if you have any interest in studying "the other side" from the perspective of a non-believer who talks with great fondness and passion about growing up Pentecostal, being saved, talking to Christ, having a relationship with Christ, asking forgiveness for sin, etc., check out Evid3nc3's video "My Christian Life" - /watch?v=JOmSYHzeoNA.
It's documented in the Old Testament. But then again, how can you prove anything to a materialists? Materialists will not accept the reality of God simply becuz they cannot be pleased with the attributes that are evident.
> You said that atheists like Dawkins don't think God is megalomaniacal? Isn't tht exactly one of the very words that he uses in his God Delusion book?
It's not that Dawkins says "God is megalomaniacal"—rather, it's "the fictional character of the god as described in the Old Testament is megalomaniacal." It may sound like a petty difference, but to say "God is megalomaniacal" gives the mistaken impression that Dawkins is "angry with God."
I looked up the quote, and it starts with "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, . . . megalomaniacal (etc.)
You mean inspired by idiots, how can you read this stuff and think that it was inspired by a all powereful all loving god? The body count in the bible ranges in the millions and most of the deceased are slain by your god, that doesn't sound like an all powerful all loving god it sounds like a prick.
Nobody can live up to your gods standard, If you want to believe in that kind of nonsense go right ahead, but I rely on reason and facts and you can find neither of these in the bible, for example your god gets pissed at us for knowing that we will sin then he sends himself down as his own son to be sacrificed to himself and all is forgiven, and you don't see the blatent absurdity in that. Wake up my friend
I am awake. I've come torealize that we did not come from soup or monkeys. I've come to realize that we human beings have a purpose. od is reasonable. You just don't like the idea of submitting to someone more powerful than yourself.
No your wrong, I don't know where we come from, but I do trust science and it will only be a matter of time before we find the origins of the universe, And od is not reasonable, remember in the bible he could have easily said that salvery is bad or rape is bad did he NO, he told how much a slave should cost and what should happen if a woman gets raped in a city and she doesn't scream, she should be stoned to death because she didn't cry out for help and that means she wanted to be raped??????
U really cant see what U R saying! We don't like submitting 2 someone more powerful than ourselves?? Thats the most rediculous Ive ever heard. I know its a favorite cop-out of Fundies, but its utter BS.
I spent many years in the military. I was in Vietnam. I took orders from those more powerful. I dont have a problem with that but I do have a problem with submitting 2 evil, 2 tyranny.
And btw, its a fact, we all have a common ancestor with the apes. Its a scientific fact. U R in denial
Evil does not exist. Does cold exists? Most would say, yes. Cold, does not exist, it is merely the absence of heat. Does darkness exist? Most say yes! But really! All darkness is! Is the abscence of light. Evil doesn't exist! It is only the abscence of god's love in man.
MinecraftNinjaTeam 3 weeks ago
@MinecraftNinjaTeam So, i'm curious; are you saying that all men are inherently good? Are all men good by default?
vekl 3 weeks ago
God is to be feared and he wants that be feared. people wont preach this in chruch becaseu noone will come back and pay there tithes
James 2:19
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.
Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
MrSlippin22 3 months ago
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Proverbs 1:26 So I will laugh when you are in trouble! I will mock you when disaster overtakes you
MrSlippin22 3 months ago
but in all i think about it and what i think is that the Ying Yang is really accurate. now talking about the video can we really believe in every book? its written by man but i dont think every book is given by god.how can we believe in every book when in one he says not to kill but in the other ask to kill? i also dont believe in the vatican or goverments using the word of god cause its is said there be "many" false prophets in the end of times not that it will start there
bacalaitoxxx 4 months ago
@bacalaitoxxx God is against premeditated murder, not killing. There is indeed a difference.
vekl 4 months ago
i dont really know why evil is a bad thing (well in some ccases yea) but if theres no light theres no darkness but if theres light darkness will follow the light. like some actions can be evil to the eyes of ppl but in reality its a good thing for the ppl.if u kill a serial killer how many did u saved? but at the same time if u let the serial killer stay alive how many did u kill?sometimes good can cause evil but at the same time evil can cause good..
bacalaitoxxx 4 months ago
@reformedbro where you not listening? The Reformed Gnostic view makes GOD the Father of all Moral Evil, including lies-- yet we have Jesus declaring SATAN as the "Father of Lies", Not God... don't be like Eliphaz and misrepresent God-- in the end you'll end up "storing up Wrath" for yourself.
apollos6640 5 months ago
@reformedbro I was on the road to becoming a Reformed Gnostic (Modern Day Calvinism), until I came across this question I proposed;
Do people choose to Sin OUTSIDE of Gods Causal Deterministic Will & Decree? Or is it, BECAUSE of Gods Causal Deterministic Will & Decree, that people then "choose" to sin?
Calvinist definition of "SOVEREIGNTY" abide by the latter, thus making GOD the Primary Cause/Prime Mover/Architect/Originator/Source/Ultimate Cause/& Father of ALL Moral Evil.
No thanks.
apollos6640 5 months ago
@apollos6640 Hey, that's fine if you reject 'calvinism'. It doesn't matter what your position is, as long as if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, that He died and rose from the grave, that He is the only means for salvation, that God is completely sovereign over all things, that only God can bring salvation and not the merit of man, that there is only one God, and that the bible is the inerrant and inspired word of God. The rest doesn't matter to me.
vekl 5 months ago
seems harsh but is da truth
jajuana26 5 months ago
Babies grow into men and take revenge against their ancestors enemies in certain cultures. Animals must have been contaminated in some way.??????
mfirebrand1 6 months ago
@mfirebrand1 Don't forget about the Nephilim that were on the Earth even after the flood.A non-canonized but widely read book before and in Jesus' day was the Book of Enoch,it claims that the watchers(sons of God) sinned against the animals as well as the human women,it appears that they had knowledge of DNA and how to corrupt it,that would certainly make sense of why God wanted the children and animals killed.
CBALLEN 5 months ago
@CBALLEN You are abolutely right and I do have the book of Enoch. I believe it and I know the DNA messed up. God bless and thanks.
mfirebrand1 5 months ago
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CBALLEN 5 months ago
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@CBALLEN You are abolutely right and I do have the book of Enoch. I believe it and I know the DNA wasmessed up. God bless and thanks.
mfirebrand1 5 months ago
@mfirebrand1 Don't mention it.Most Christians have never been taught the fallen angel view,they believe in the Sethite view or else they are just ignorant of anything unless it's in the New Test.,and they are at a loss for words when atheists call God a tyrant committing genocide.They forget that The Hebrews wandered in the desert for 40 yrs because they feared giants.Even if the people were all humans and it was just God's revenge,why kill all the animals unless they were corrupt in some way?
CBALLEN 5 months ago
CALVINISM IS FULL OF CONTRADICTIONS!!!!!!!!
jbmanish 7 months ago
@jbmanish Wow! Somebody really hates God's sovereingty!
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl Calvinism does not make since and you are so dangerously deep in it. There are calvinist like Charles Spurgeon but then there are calvinist like you who go way to deep in this stuff. I almost believed in calvinism too but find many contradictions. Here are some....Calvinist say Christ died for the church this is true but 2 Peter 2:1 shows that He also bought the false teachers with His blood but they bring upon themselves destruction. continued....
jbmanish 5 months ago
@vekl Furthermore in 1 John 2:2 says Christ died not only for us (Christians) but also for the whole world. John 6:44 says God must draw men but the next verse in John 6:45 says those who learn of the Father will be drawn to Christ. John 1:9 Jesus Christ enlightens every man's heart. Acts 17:30 God commands all men to repent. Also the biggest thing for me in looking at calvinism is why does God and Jesus Christ get upset when sinners disobey and perish? continued....
jbmanish 5 months ago
@jbmanish If you're really looking for a debate on the issue, then let's set something up. I honestly don't mind debating atheists. Especially the ones that are very familiar with scripture!
vekl 5 months ago
@vekl For instance in Romans 10:21 God has held out His hand to a disobedient Israel. Matthew 23:37 shows that Jesus Christ wept over Jerusalem because they would not come to the truth. He would have gathered with them but they would not. Jeremiah 6:16 God tells this disobedient sinners to come down the good path and find rest for their souls but they said we will not walk therein. continued.....
jbmanish 5 months ago
@vekl There are many more verses like these in the Bible including Ezekiel 33:11 God does not enjoy the death of the wicked but would rather see them live. And here you are saying He does not want them to live?! Horrible. Even though God wants none to perish 2 Peter 3:9 because of His judgements disobedient sinners will go to Hell. God is sovereign. Also calvinist teach that God does not change His mind but Jeremiah 18:10 if they do evil in My sight I will repent of the good I intend them.
jbmanish 5 months ago
@vekl This is not about God's soveriegnty. I look in scripture and it shows that Calvinism is not biblical. You are very dangerously deep in hyper-calvinism. This is why I said there are soul winning calvinist like Charles Spurgeon but then there are diluted confused hyper-calvinist like yourself. I go to a calvinist church because they preach the gospel but I just disagree with their "doctrines of grace". Really you should examine what you are teaching. This is very dangerous.
jbmanish 5 months ago
@jbmanish learn the word before you make comments that you know not!! that is a exhortation to you!!! by the way semper Reformanda!!! in Jesus name!!
reformedbro1 6 months ago
@reformedbro1 look at my replies to your buddy vekl. I posted like 5 messages with scripture as to why I disagree with calvinism. I am in the word which is why I disagree with calvinism. I don't feel like typing all that stuff again so just go look at my messages to vekl on this video and you will see why I disagree with calvinism. Also you need to be careful what type of calvinist you are. There are good calvinist like Spurgeon but then there are hyper-calvinist. which one are you?
jbmanish 5 months ago
@jbmanish im not hyper bro
reformedbro1 5 months ago
God isn't evil. In fact until God existence can be proven, it's a pretty lame discussion.
Instead, let's debate whether Tinkerbell wears too much eye makeup or how Superman's going to look when he get old and has to wear Depends with that outfit.
dimbulb23 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 If you wanna talk about that, that's fine. It seems kind of boring, though. I'd rather talk about whether not atheism is true or logical. Let's talk about how atheism spawned the holocaust of many nations, and irrational means of debunking the existence of God. Now THAT sounds like fun.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl What's stopping you?
dimbulb23 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 Can you prover that is true? Not whether or not it exist, but if it's tenable.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl Can you prove mailboxes don't fly when no one's watching?
Do you feel it's rational to believe they don't?
If someone challenged you on your disbelief in flying mailboxes wouldn't you simply say "Prove they do". And wouldn't you be justified in demanding their proof even If they said: "Prover your disbelief in flying mailboxes is true. Not whether or it exist but if it's tenable".
The burden of proof is on you. You claim there's a god. I see not reason to believe that.
dimbulb23 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 "The burden of proof is on you. You claim there's a god. I see not reason to believe that." Believe me. I'm not worried at all about proving whether or not God exists. That's not my priority. The only onus i have is to TELL you that He exist. It's not my priority to convince you. You and I both know full well that there are plenty of other videos here in YT that prove the xistence of God, so I know that you're not looking for answers, but only an argument to win.....
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl What you call keyboard heroics is what I call having actually thought critically about the subject. I can't disprove god or flying mailboxes. So the question remains: Am I irrational in my disbelief simply because I can't disprove they don't exist? Isn't saying, "If you can't prove it, I don't believe it" a reasonable response in either case?
As for the Bible, trotting that out to prove god is like trotting out a Mailbox Flight manual to prove they have pilot's licenses.
dimbulb23 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 Again, if you truly are seeking a meaningful conversation with little ol' me and want to disprove God, simply take up the challenge. That's all i'm saying. You're not irrational because you don't believe God exist. you're irrational because of your attitude toward iHis existence and my integrity.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl Let's recap.
I commented on the video.
You addressed a reply to me where you said "I'd rather talk about whether not atheism is true or logical."
And now you've stated, "You're not irrational because you don't believe God exist."
You've answered your own question, my job is done.
Have a nice day.
dimbulb23 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 Typical of the youtube atheist.
vekl 7 months ago
@dimbulb23 2) No offense but i honestly do not have the time or patience to deal with 'keyboard heroes'. If you're truly looking to get into a cordial, rational, and academic discussion on this issue, then let me know and let's set something up. I'd LOVE to talk to atheists! Atheism only empowers my faith even more. So, if you think you got what it takes to disprove God and the bible, bring it!!
vekl 7 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 8 months ago
Terrible meant something different than how we understand it today. If you still dissagree or just want to be more accurate look at the original greek Holy Bible (its the first version = the most accurate version) and since part of this is Old Testament look at a original Jewish Old Testament. Same concept.
Those original Holy Bibles should sound something like "Interlinear Greek English New Testament" at least thats the one I have.
Eliot8989 10 months ago
@Eliot8989 meant to include : Thanks to God.
Eliot8989 10 months ago
You are really stretching here to defend an un-defendable position to make excuses for this clearly man made God, with human frailties like, jealousy, anger and regret or remorse, oh and revenge. This man made God actually needs blood sacrifices in order to forgive, even to the point of manifesting himself in the form of a human as his son and still himself to offer himself as a blood sacrifice. He only seems to have had one solution for everything...blood sacrifices. Primitive!
Zodslayer 11 months ago
@Zodslayer And your statements here are VERY arbitrary. It's fine if you want to assume and think that God doesn't exists, but that's just your opinion. It has no bearing on the fact that He does exist and that the bible is true. If you want to PROVE that God is man made, then show us evidence of it.
vekl 11 months ago
@vekl You are absolutely right, it is my opinion, like it is your opinion to believe in this. Now, I have been long past these sort of debates, because they don't get anywhere and neither side can sufficiently prove or disprove to the other side the existence or non existence of this God, so before we get into an un-winable debate, let's just say, I respect your right to believe whatever you want and leave me the right not to believe.
Zodslayer 11 months ago
@Zodslayer Ok. Fair enough, and I sincerely appreciate your honesty. Thanks you. But that's NOT at all what YOU'VE done here! If you're going to make absolute and arbitrary statements about the existence of God in the manner that you have been, then the onus is on you to substantiate that claim. If I'm deceived, then prove it! Otherwise, perhaps for future reference, you should make it more clear that it is ONLY YOUR OPINION....unless you're prepared to back it up!
vekl 11 months ago
Isn't it hypocritical for people to turn on and off this idea that the children are responsible for their parents sins as described in the Bible, but in these current days, people will quickly tell you that they are not responsible for the terrible things their ancestors did to others in the past. It is really strange how people turn this on and off at their convenience. It is always a Christian who practices this hypocrisy.
Zodslayer 11 months ago
Good, bad, right, and wrong is 2 sides of the same things. Example the rapist would experience rape as a good thing; pleasurable, happiness, ecstasy, complete expression of their will. The raped would experience rape as a bad thing; abuse, pain, displeasure, complete loss of will and control. Like wise, a lion killing and consuming a gazelle is good only to the lion. The gazelle would disagree. =)
orlandorjames 1 year ago
The bible says God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil no one else created evil. But God created evil out of His knowledge not an innate Virtue of His.Knowledge of evil was used by God to create a powerless situation of the knowledge of good and evil.Man ate of the tree of the evil and good by knowledge, Man could not handle the knowledge, like God used it.God is the creator of the KNOWLEDGE of evil for good, to bring about redemption.God called the tree very good, though with evil.
polopowers1 1 year ago
kill your children if they are rebelious? (deuteronomy 21: 18-21)
god is jealous? (deuteronomy 6 verse 15) god destroyed every thing with the noah flood? (genesis 7 verse 4)
moses did human sacrafice? satanism? (leviticus 8 verse 28)
btw, god insipered the bible {suposively} therefor, deuteronomy, is a book of law, therefor it must be folowed, so honestly?
god is a cruel cruel destructive, deadbeat dad.if you condone evil, you are AS evil if not more, than that you are condoning.
speakandeducate 1 year ago
If we find that an idea has to be both true and false at the same time, then the thing that idea represnts doesn't exist. God allows evil, permits evil, brooks evil, encourages evil, he himself commits evil...........but he's not evil? Some piece of logic that is! You're looking at a wall that is obviously painted red but you're telling yourself that is not red, and that it is white. That's an incredible amount of shoe horning to harmonize the impossible.
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41
You didn't pay attention to the video, did you? That's a perfect example of 'selective' listening'. Please watch the video again, and see what I say about the word 'evil' in and of itself, and you'll see that there is no contradiction. It would only be a contradiction in the mind of an atheist simply because they cannot fathom the mind of God. Without God, you have no morality!
vekl 1 year ago
Way to close your heart, dude.
DeaconVerter 1 year ago
@DeaconVerter
That's what all people who don't like truth say.
vekl 1 year ago
God is not sovereign. Sovereign is more of a political term. My KJV bible does not mention the word sovereign.
imakewarwiththebeast 1 year ago
God did not make hu-man beings (which are both male and female). Humans are a developed race of slaves in spiritual Egypt. "Hu" is a pagan Egyptian God which represents "the spoken word" to pagans. See my video called "legal aliens".
imakewarwiththebeast 1 year ago
Thank you for this powerful preaching series you did real good explaining here.
sacredappleseed 1 year ago
@resslersatthelake
Apparently you haven't watched the entire video. And please no fowl language here!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl Just your unfounded and unproved claim that "without God you have no morality" is in itself a prejudice pigheaded stance. You don't know me any more than I know you, but because I'm an atheist I don't qualify, based on your claim, to possess a shred of morality. This is you preconceived notion about people who do not embrace your belief. I embrace no religion, so by definition that makes me inherently immoral and wicked. How much different is that claim from the claim of a white.....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 "..so by definition that makes me inherently immoral and wicked...." This is another one of those deliberate misinterpretations that i get so many times from atheists. I did not imply that because you are an atheists that you were immoral. I know and believe that all atheists can be just as moral as any theist. Regretably, I'll even admit; sometimes more moral.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #2....supremacist who says that blacks are stupid and inferior for no other reason than being black? Or that women with blonde hair are dumb? You ignore the fact that there are millions of people who are parents, scientists, doctors, professors, ingeneers, wives, husbands, career people, good law-abiding citizens serving their community and their country in some capacity or another who happen to have no religion as their moral guide--or atheists, if you will. Only religion could.....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 2. But YOU as an atheists have no basis for morality. You have no logical argument to claim what is good or evil OUTSIDE and/or APART from your own subjectivism. All you have is that something is evil because it 'brings discomfort or inconvenience'. You don't have anything substantially absolute. Truth, in and of itself is absolute, immutable, transcendant, and autonomous. Subjectivism, emotion, assumpotiuon, is not.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl No vekl, we are not going to arrange any meeting between you and I outside of YOUTUBE to debate about this topic. Why? Because I'm answering to your video posted on here for everybody to see and comment. So all the arguments belong on here for everybody to see as well. Now, You are in no way obligated to respond to my comments if so you choose. You can simply choose to ignore me and that's fine by me. After all this is just a debate we're having over the claim in your video--nothing more.
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41
Oh, so you think I wanna 'hide' our debate? You think I'm afraid of whatever you think you have to counter my position? No, no, no. I WANT it to be PUBLIC. YOU AND ME! i WANT EVERYBODY to see your answer and mine.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #2 Now, in nothing that I wrote I made any claim whatever to having anything "substantially absolute." I shouldn't! And neither should you, but you took the presumptuous liberty to do it anyway by blatantly claiming that: "morality is from God", thus you, not me, making it "absolute" and universal. You also proclaim that we--atheists--"have no basis for our morality." Well, what is your basis for your morality? And is it absolute? And more importantly--can you prove it? Then you went....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 #2. Here's the problem with the atheist' view of morality; in order to determine whether or not somethig is right or wrong, the atheist has to BORROW from the theists' world view. You can claim til you're blue in the face that rape or slavery is wrong, but YOU as an atheist cannot give an absolute logical account for WHY it's wrong. I don't wanna hear nothing about FEELINGS or INCONVENIENCE. I want ABSOLUTES. But apart from your subjectivism as an atheist, you have no account.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #11...So what is the basis of morality of the believers? Most believers would answer: "The Bible!" Well, let's check the Bible. If you disrespect god he would have your wife rape and your children killed while you watch (II Samuel 12). God angry at Pharaoh and killed all the innocent firstborn male of Egypt (Exodus 12:29-30). God blessed the bastard offspring of an act of incest between Lot and his two sexy daughters (Genesis 19:33-34).
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #3...to say that "atheists have borrowed from the Christian world view which stems from the 10 Commandments." I say to you, you must be dilutional! (No offense intended) But for the sake of argument, let us see what the so-called 10 Commandments has to offer as a morall guide: 1)Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Is this an admition that there are other gods besides him?) 2) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. 3) Remember the sabath day, to keep it holy....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 #4. Now, I'm not and nor would I ever say that all atheists are immoral, but they most DEFINITELY are under no obligation to be moral either. Again, go on ahead and say something is wrong, but you as an atheist don't have any absolute ultimate authority to base it on that is both autonomous, or immutable. All you have is your subjectivism. That's it.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #3.....suppose an unjustified certainty to be an improvement on ignorance. Believers, like yourself, insist that morality comes from a deity for which there's no empirical testable evidence whatsoever--making it absolute and universal, yet, it is by no means self-evident that our sense of right or wrong and the codes of behavior we are expected to follow, come from a supernatural source. How do we know and how can we know this unseen moral agent exists? For most people, the existence....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41
If you REALLY want to get into a debat over this issue, then why not you and I set something up? I really and honmestly do not have the patience to continue going back and forth thru the comments section. I would gladly debate you over this issue of morality anytime. You just name the time and place. But to respind to your statement about 'moral and atheistic countries', who cares? That still doesn't answer the question about moral absolutes.
vekl 1 year ago
@pedrom41 #5 The onus is on you to show me, from an atheist' world view WHY something is wrong, and once again, that ulitmate authority cannot be derived from man neither can it be changed by man, or subject to man. Can you as an atheist give me an absolute logical answer to how YOU know something is ultimately moral or immoral? Let's hear it!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
(Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science", New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930)
speakandeducate 1 year ago
@vekl #4....of god is something they learn from earliest infancy; and they rarely think much about it, for if they did, they'd find that the arguments traditionally given to justify the existence of this supernatural being have some serious flaws. Suffice it to say that no argument for the existence of a trascendent deity has proven to be generally persuasive or has withstood rigorous philosophical analysis. If the existence of this moral agent cannot be proven, how can one argue that....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 4. You can give me a list of all the so called moral atheists in the world. It don't matter. The fact is that none of those moral atheists can still give an account as to why something is right or wrong. In order for you or any of them to do so, you have to borrow from the Christian world view which stems from the 10 commandments. Prove to me WITHOUT your assumptions, emotions, subjectivism, or opinion that something is right or wrong. As a matter of fact, PM me s we can conclude this.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #12...Biblical guidelines are given for beating slaves (Exodus 21:20-21) Lot offers hi two virgin daughters to be raped by an angry mob (Genesis 19:6) God orders to have the Amalekites killed...."men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (I Samuel 15:2) God has no beef with a man who rapes a woman as long as he gives her father a few bucks and marry the victim. (Deut. 22:28-29). God had 42 children killed for calling a guy baldy (2 Kings 2:23-24)...
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #5....morality is grounded in his commands? Religion and morality have never been synonymous, nor religion has ever been the underpinning for moral consciousness. This is an unfounded prejudicial assumption among many believers. Fof if religion were the underpinning for moral consciousness, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch-Hunt and the priests child rape and child molestation, right in the church, would have never happened! We can read the Bible and find all kinds of immorality...
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 "Religion and morality have never been synonymous," Wow! This is probably the most hypocritical and contradicting statement I've heard from you so far. And I suppose that you think that atheist is MORE synonymous with morality? Well, guess again, friend. You need to look at your history books again and see what type of atheists were responsible for genocides of millions of people.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl #13....Is this the book you get your morals from? You probably see nothing wrong with those few passages I pointed out because theists insist that god is the source of morality, and that actions are only "good" or "bad" to the extent that god makes them so. If you believe that morality is guided by this god, then you should realize that your religion provides no objective basis for judging anything as absolute right or wrong. A morality based on the absolute say-so of an unseen deity....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41
LOL!! Look. I'm not gonna sit here and read all 17 of your comments here. I just don't have the time or patience for it. If you really want to have a thorough discussion about this, then PM me and we'll continue from there. And it is not about hiding anything from anybody. Again, if that is what you're worried about, then I PUBLICLY challenge anytime. And everyone is seeing me write this to you!!! If you don't want to debate me, then at least PM me. I have nothing to hide, guy!
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl OK vekl, fine, if you choose not to read them that's ok--no harm is coming out of that. And for the record, I never implied (and I wish you believe me) that you were trying to "hide" anything. It's obvious to me that you're more than capable of sustaining an argument on this matter--whether in private or in the open.....but so can I.
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl Finally, I'll say this then I'll say no more. Even [if] we atheists could not explain to the satisfaction of the theits the existence of "objective value" and "moral facts," that doesn't contingently entails that, first, the argument for a supernatural being is valid, and second, that our moral conduct is inherently depended on it's existence. Pointing to an unresolved philosophical dilemma doesn't tangibly demonstrate the existence of such a being. Best wishes to you. Peace!
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #14...seems to me no less arbitrary than the relativistic morality that theists decry. If god is free to decide what is "good", and is good by virtue of his decree, then god has no higher standard to answer to . Therefore, his will may be seen as genuinely arbitrary. Although god once decree that murder and rape are morally wrong, he might have declare the opposite just as well, thus this would make morality arbitrary. If right and wrong are inherent to the action regardless of god's....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #15....decree, then god has nothing to do with the process. God doesn't set moral standards--he follows them--and is, therefore, irrelevant to morality; except to the extent that he can tell us things which we couldn't figure out for ourselves. Other human perceptions also have the appearance of being normative. For example, most people would agree that chocolate is "delicious," while dirt is not. By the same reasoning as the argument from normative morality, it could be argued that....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #16....there must be some ultimate standard for "deliciousness," and that must be this god--the ultimate tasty treat. But then again, we could use similar argument to prove that this god is the definition of the perfect homoxesual lover. And even if I were to accept that the source of morality is a god, why should I believe that is your god to the exclusion of hundreds of other gods?
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #6....wicked and vicious atrocities sanctioned, encouraged and/or committed by the god of the Bible. So if you believe that morality is guided by the will of this supposed "moral giver" then you must realize that your religion provides no objective basis for judging anything as absolute right or wrong. Moreover, a morality that is contingent upon fear of an unseen deity or fixed upon a promised reward, seems to me to be of a lower order than what you assume to be autonomous morality.
pedrom41 1 year ago
@pedrom41 #3. You see, guy. My whole point in this is that in reality both of our positons can only be truly argued from a subjective standpoint. You say something is wrong because you don't like it or that a group of other fallible, mutable, and unautonomous people got together and DECIDED that something was wrong. But I say that somethig is wrong because of the God of the universe says it's wrong.
vekl 1 year ago
@vekl An error in my part. Commandment 3) is actually commandment #4, and commandment #2 should be #3; for commandment #2 actually says: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. But I presume you know the 10 Commandments by heard, so my mistake should not confuse you, My bad. Anyway, here we see that this god wasted 4 commandments on himself--proyecting a sign of vanity and insecurity. Let's continue. 5) Honor thy father and thy mother. Well, I never neede any commandment to respect....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #5....and honor my parents. I've respected my parents for as long as I can remember long before I heard any such a thig as the 10 Commandments. But what about if your parents are doppers, or criminals, or murderers, or child molesters? In addition, Jesus said in Matthew 10:35-36: "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. A man's enemies will be the members of his household." This is quite interesting....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #6...6) Thou shalt not kill. So was it wrong to kill the NAZIS? What about if you find a man raping your wife or child? What about all the people the god of the Bible killed and'or ordered to kill? Well, I guess the rule doesn't apply to god, might makes it right. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. (This is actually a redundance of commandment #10. 8) Thou shalt not steal. This is certainly a nice one, but not all that original. The Book of the Dead contains 40 or 42 commandments.....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #7...in which one can find similar commandments. 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness. 10) Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's house and wife. Now, granted the story of Moses's was borrowed from earlier Greek, Rome, and Persian cultures, is that really the best a transcendental moral agent could come up with? Your god is rather strange. He takes offense if someone worship other gods but it never occurred to him a commandment against rape, slavery, abused wives, and child molestation....
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #8...No society can exist without a law or laws that prevent citizens from slaughtering one another whenever they fell like it, or take whatever they want from someone else without consent or approval. Thus these laws have existed since pre-biblical times. The moral argument of the theist sounds something like this: "If God doesn't exist morality doesn't exist, but morality does exist, therefore, God exists. This is a "deductively" valid argument, which is to say if its premises are true.
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #9...then its conclusion cannot be false. But the key question here is: "Are the premises true? While many believers take this premise for granted, the reasons for thinking it's true are not clear, and there are some serious objection to it. For example, John Calvin didn't believe in free will; therefore "if God exists, free will doesn't exist; but free will does exist, therefore God doesn't exist." Also, the Euthyphro dilemma is found in Plato's Euthyphro, in which Socrates asks:
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #10..."Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" In layman's term this would be: "Is that which is good commanded by god because it's good, or it's good because god commanded it?" Both options are problematic for those who would claim morality is dependent upon god. But if the existence of god cannot be proven, and has never been proven, how could anyone argue that morality if grounded in a few commands not very impressive?
pedrom41 1 year ago
@vekl #17 And for the record, I never said or implied that atheism was the underpinning for moral consciouness. What I said was rebuttal to false notion of many that religion and morality are synonymous, and I went on to explain why this is a fallacy. There are many Christians in prison for committing crimes, and there are atheists in prison for the same reason. But the Christian didn't commit a crime because he's a Christian anymore than the atheist committed his because he's an atheist.
pedrom41 1 year ago
I don't believe in god or the bible, but I do recognize how they influence society. I don't believe in the scriptures quoted here, but they do bring up some very interesting points. Well done.
aerhearts 1 year ago
God creates evil by withdrawing himself this is why Christ said why have thy forsaking me (cold is the absents of heat, darkness is the absents of light). Also the amaleks were descendants of the nepheilem or fallen angels and their bloodline carried the gene of the giants of the days Noah day that is why God destroyed the earth with the flood only Noahs DNA was untainted (Noah was perfect in that day)
Ltaxe1 1 year ago
Soit's ok for God to do these things and not humans/ Why does morality differ depending on who commits these acts?
Symos 1 year ago
God ordains all our leaders and most all our leaders are evil,Obama was ordained and he is certainly evil,look at all the Chicoms or the Muslim leaders who are wiping out the Christians.The thing is though,the evil that they do is exactly what they want to do,so they are held accountable.
CBALLEN 1 year ago
Great video. I really learned a lot from your wonderful exposition. Keep up the good work. Lots of people. Don't even read the Bible, yet they have their own erroneous opinion about it. I hope this video help lots of people to make up their minds are to read the bible and find the truth for themselves. Hopefully they will find the guidance of they need to be saved. I pray for us all.
HAMLETOIS 2 years ago
Well, its true.
People dont get this type of preaching or teaching in some Churches.
*So if its hard to hear, get in the bible you will see the truth.
happinessinjesus 2 years ago 3
@happinessinjesus No "truth", just a load of contradictory, self-serving nonsense actually. You should try and read it properly.
MzHellinahandbasket 1 year ago
I like this guy
jojofuman 2 years ago 6
I know your trying to preach the whole counsel of God but is this really necessary. The message of the cross is offensive enough that we don't have to make unbelievers unecessarily. This is no done in hate, just want to dialogue my brother
zaga0506 2 years ago
I understand where you're coming from, but the truth of the matter is that when the non-believers read the bible for themselves, they will eventually come to these aspects of God. What then? Should we take those verses out of the bible? Of course not. We should preach the truth and nothing but the whole truth.
vekl 2 years ago
OH So NOW GOD IS THE AUTHOR OF SIN LOL SO THE HAITIAN EARTHQUAKE AND EVERYTHING BAD THAT HAS HAPPENED ON THIS EARTH WE CAN BLAME GOD FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE ACCORDING TO YOU HE "ORDAINS" EVIL LOL IF THIS IS THE CASE THAN ITS GOD THAT NEEDS REDEEMING NOT US NOT ONLY THAT THIS REDUCES GOD TO THE STATE OF MAN WHICH IS FALSE PREACHING SATAN IS EVIL AND THE AUTHOR OF SIN YOU TWIST SCRIPTURE TO FIT YOUR THEOLOGY AND YOUR DOCTRINE INSTEAD OF JESUS(1 Corinthians 1:19)(matthew 15:9)(mark 7:7-8)
neverdothatagain50 2 years ago
It truly is very sad that people are so blinded by their traditions and emotions of who God truly is. If the bible does not say these things about God, than you must prove it before you begin to whine about Him not being the way YOU want Him to be. Prove it!
vekl 2 years ago
GoD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AND FORGIVES(PSALMS 103:8)(NUMBERS
14:17-19) BUT HE IS ALSO JUST AND HE PUNISHES SIN BUT IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE GOD GIVES THEM ALOT OF TIME TO REPENT OF THEIR SIN AND THEY WONT SO THE PUNISHMENT IS FAIR SOME PEOPLE WILL NOT REALIZE WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG UNTIL THEY GO TO HELL BUT EVEN IF GOD DID GIVE THEM MORE TIME TO REPENT ON EARTH BEFORE THEIR PUNISHMENT THEY STILL WOULD NOT HAVE REPENTED AT LEAST IMO THEY LOVE SIN THATS HOW BAD THEY ARE BUT THAT WAS THEIR CHOICE
neverdothatagain50 2 years ago
ReVELaTION(9:20) REVELATION (2:21)
neverdothatagain50 2 years ago
Not everyone will accept this teaching, except those who are truly of God. When you omit these aspects of God, then you lie. God is no respecter of persons, so therefore, if someone refuses God because of a certain aspect of His nature and character, then they are not His sheep. I hate to sound harsh, but that's the truth. It's in the bible. I cannot water it down.
vekl 2 years ago
Not everyone will accept this teaching, except those who are truly of God. When you omit these aspects of God, then you lie. God is no respecter of persons, so therefore, if someone refuses God because of a certain aspect of His nature and character, then they are not His sheep. I hate to sound harsh, but that's the truth. It's in the bible. I cannot water it down.
vekl 2 years ago
Comment removed
zaga0506 2 years ago
vekl thank you for your thoughts they are very enlightening. people need to realize that when you poke the bear you get the claw. when you embrace god and follow him you will receive his love. god is holy he doesn't have to tolerate sin. if he decides to allow you to repent and earn his love he will and iam sure he has.
diogenesny 2 years ago
1 of 2:
Good video. Just a clarifying note: atheists such as Richard Dawkins (& myself) don't "accuse God of being a megalomaniacal genocidal tyrant." Rather, our position is that the ancient pre-scientific world looked at things like the "anger" of nature (storms, earthquakes, etc.) and made up stories about "angry gods": Zeus, Thor, Jehovah, Kali, etc. And for these gods, the ancient authors projected the characters of megalomaniacal genocidal tyrannical kings and pharaohs and the like.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 2:
A picky point perhaps, but too often theists will accuse non-believers of being "angry at Jehovah," but that's like saying we're "angry at Zeus." But we simply see no evidence to believe in these ancient tales—and given the unpleasant natures of these gods' personalities, we feel fortunate that they exist only in the minds of their believers.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Well, there are in my opinion two types of atheists. There are ones who just simply don't believe in God and leave it at that, and then there are those like Dawkins, and Barker who not only believe there is no God but they want to evangelise it. Rather than just leaving well enough alone, they feel it's their duty to spread the hatred towards God around. It's not only about lack of belief.
vekl 2 years ago
1 of 4:
> there are in my opinion two types of atheists.
Just as there are *many* types of Christians, I would say there are many types of atheists too. (And just like the variety of Christians, they can be educated, uneducated, intelligent, unintelligent, open-minded, close-minded, etc.)
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 4:
> There are ones who just simply don't believe in God and leave it at that, and then there are those like Dawkins, and Barker who not only believe there is no God but they want to evangelise it.
Yes, there are definitely those two extremes, but there's lots of room in between. For example, some just want to explore the question "Is there a God, and if so, do any of the thousands of religions out there really represent a communication effort from this Creator?"
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
3 of 4:
Some atheists just want to discuss the mental anguish that resulted from their mounting cognitive dissonance: *wanting* to believe but becoming increasingly dismayed by the way the evidence pointed away from faith. My favorite atheist in this category goes by the YouTube channel name of "Evid3nc3." He's an ex-Christian who speaks very warmly of his days as a Christian, and certainly doesn't fall into either extreme that you mention.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
4 of 4:
Evid3nc3 has a great video series called "Deconversion"—it's probably the best series I've seen on YouTube.
> they feel it's their duty to spread the hatred towards God around. It's not only about lack of belief.
Again, I think "hatred towards belief in fictional gods" is more accurate than "hatred towards God." But I certainly acknowledge that there are atheists who are more interested in ridicule than in discussing the issues, and I find such atheists embarrassing.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
You feel it's their duty to spread the hatred, but for what? How can you hate something or someone that doesn't exist in your mind? It seems like you're only looking for a fight. Your goal in your videos and logic seem to prove nothing but hatred towards God. I don't think that you want to converse. You only want to win an argument. I still desire one atheist to come up with a very good explanation as to why God does NOT exist.
vekl 2 years ago
1 of 6:
> How can you hate something or someone that doesn't exist in your mind?
Speaking for myself, I don't "hate" the claims of organized religion—be it Hinduism, Judaism, Jainism, Christianity, Islam, etc.—I just view them all as man's guesswork in explaining creation, suffering, rules for living, and the afterlife.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 6:
Let's say a Hindu approached the both of us and said we risk being reincarnated into cockroaches because we're not obeying the Brahman's Divine Law of the caste system. I think it's fair to say that we both feel free to dismiss "Brahman's dictates" not because we "hate Brahman," but we both feel that Hinduism is just something made up by ancient people: it has no Divine Authority.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
3 of 6:
I suspect that you & I both have similar feelings about all non-Christian religions: we dismiss them as man-made guesswork—that these non-Judeo-Christian "holy books" are compilations of folklore & legend & myth & perhaps a little genuine history as well. The difference between us is that I extend that same conclusion to the Bible.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
4 of 6:
> It seems like you're only looking for a fight.
I feel reasonably certain that nothing I say will ever change the mind of a "true-believing" Christian—and such believers are not my target audience anyway. My target audience is only those who are already on the fence, and feeling the anxiety of cognitive dissonance as their thoughts clash inside their head (Genesis vs. science, the problem of suffering, biblical contradictions, etc.).
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
5 of 6:
> Your goal in your videos and logic seem to prove nothing but hatred towards God.
I don't "hate God" any more than you hate the Hindu god Brahman or the Greek god Zeus. So comparing our feelings toward Brahman & Zeus & Yahweh & Thor & the Japanese gods & the Native American gods, we're in agreement on 5 out of 6.
Extend this list to the world's religions throughout history, and we agree on (roughly) 99,999 out of 100,000.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
6 of 6:
> I still desire one atheist to come up with a very good explanation as to why God does NOT exist.
For better or worse, I have no strong interest in discussing skepticism of "a Creator"—my videos only discuss skepticism of what organized religions claim to "know" about such a Creator. I discuss this subject in my video 'Three advantages to questioning "the Creator's Word" but not "a Creator"' (/watch?v=l3lye16mJvQ).
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Cool. Perhaps I'll check it out one of these days.
vekl 2 years ago
It's good to hear both sides. So, I definitely cannot argue with you on that. However, your views and teachings could also be a detriment to an indivdiual's faith...But then again, if they turn away completely, as did Barker and so many other alledged former Christians, then it would only validate what the bible says about false converts.
vekl 2 years ago
Fair enough. Now for the first of many questions to you is, how do you define whether or not the bible is historically, or scientifically or prophetically accurate?
vekl 2 years ago
1 of 5:
> how do you define whether or not the bible is historically or scientifically or prophetically accurate
Just to take a shortcut here, I've studied Christian apologetics enough to know that apologists have answers for all the questions that skeptics raise: the 6-day creation vs. modern science, biblical contradictions, the way Bible borrows from prior religions, etc. That is, I know you can offer counter-arguments to all my reasons for doubting the Divine inspiration of the Bible.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 5:
So I don't think we'll get anywhere . . . which I don't mind, for as I mentioned earlier, my intent is not to try to convert believing Christians. Because even if it wasn't mostly futile (and I know it IS mostly futile!), I also realize that *many* Christians are probably happier with religion than without, and I have no wish to make people unhappy.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
3 of 5:
But if you're still interested in why I doubt the divinity of the Bible, I give an overview in my 7-part video series called "Using the Socratic Method with Christian Proselytizers."
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
4 of 5:
Parts 1-4 discuss the common ground between the Christian and the skeptic (at least, a "deist" skeptic, which is the position I take) on why we have firm ground for doubting the divinity of non-Christian religions, and in Part 5 I offer my reasons for why I think Christianity is just as suspect as all the non-Christian religions.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
5 of 5:
In Part 6 I offer the most common counter-arguments offered by apologists: all the explanations on why everything I said in Part 5 is wrong.
And in Part 7 I explain why I find the Christian apologist's counter-arguments unconvincing.
So it's a stalemate—which is where I believe any discussion the two of us have on the subject will end up.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Well, to be totally honest with you Todd, the fact is that both of our beliefs ultimately depend on faith. I as a Christian, I honestly cannot empirically prove to you the existence of God, but no more than you can prove to me that He does NOT exist. Just because there things we cannot comprehend or understand, does not negate the reality or validity of a certain person or thing. But I'm glad that you're at least one of the more cordial atheists! :)
vekl 2 years ago
> Well, to be totally honest with you Todd, the fact is that both of our beliefs ultimately depend on faith.
A great video ("great" in my biased opinion!) on this subject is by the popular YouTuber "QualiaSoup" called "The Faith Cake" - /watch?v=SlaCq3dKvvI (it's at the current top of my Favorites).
> But I'm glad that you're at least one of the more cordial atheists! :)
Likewise—it's been good talking to you!
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Fair enough.
vekl 2 years ago
I did actually view two parts of the video.
vekl 2 years ago
"I also realize that *many* Christians are probably happier with religion than without, and I have no wish to make people unhappy. "
Oh. Ok. Well, I guess thats ok.
vekl 2 years ago
True I agree.
vekl 2 years ago
Well, that's fine if that's what you want to assume.
vekl 2 years ago
"He's an ex-Christian who speaks very warmly of his days as a Christian, and certainly doesn't fall into either extreme that you mention. "
Well, that's great. But I certainly wouldn't call him an ex-christian. He was never one in the first place.
vekl 2 years ago
> never one in the first place
I was never a Christian myself, so I'm arguably not qualified to comment on the argument "*real* Christians never convert." But if you have any interest in studying "the other side" from the perspective of a non-believer who talks with great fondness and passion about growing up Pentecostal, being saved, talking to Christ, having a relationship with Christ, asking forgiveness for sin, etc., check out Evid3nc3's video "My Christian Life" - /watch?v=JOmSYHzeoNA.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
It's documented in the Old Testament. But then again, how can you prove anything to a materialists? Materialists will not accept the reality of God simply becuz they cannot be pleased with the attributes that are evident.
vekl 2 years ago
"(And just like the variety of Christians, they can be educated, uneducated, intelligent, unintelligent, open-minded, close-minded, etc.) "
I would MOST DEFINITELY say the same about atheists.
vekl 2 years ago
You said that atheists like Dawkins don't think God is megalomaniacal? Isn't tht exactly one of the very words that he uses in his God Delusion book?
vekl 2 years ago
1 of 2:
> You said that atheists like Dawkins don't think God is megalomaniacal? Isn't tht exactly one of the very words that he uses in his God Delusion book?
It's not that Dawkins says "God is megalomaniacal"—rather, it's "the fictional character of the god as described in the Old Testament is megalomaniacal." It may sound like a petty difference, but to say "God is megalomaniacal" gives the mistaken impression that Dawkins is "angry with God."
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 2:
I looked up the quote, and it starts with "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, . . . megalomaniacal (etc.)
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Throw out that vile book.
MrJohnnyrace 2 years ago 2
how can someone read this disgusting book and not realize that it was written by men, it's pretty obvious
jpc08109 2 years ago 2
Yes. Written by men, inspired by God.
vekl 2 years ago
You mean inspired by idiots, how can you read this stuff and think that it was inspired by a all powereful all loving god? The body count in the bible ranges in the millions and most of the deceased are slain by your god, that doesn't sound like an all powerful all loving god it sounds like a prick.
jpc08109 2 years ago 6
Well, let me ask you somethng then; have you ever told a lie?
vekl 2 years ago
I don't claim to be a god
jpc08109 2 years ago
Good. So then you realize that you are, according to God's standards, a sinner and deserving of eternity in hell, just like the rest of us.
vekl 2 years ago
Nobody can live up to your gods standard, If you want to believe in that kind of nonsense go right ahead, but I rely on reason and facts and you can find neither of these in the bible, for example your god gets pissed at us for knowing that we will sin then he sends himself down as his own son to be sacrificed to himself and all is forgiven, and you don't see the blatent absurdity in that. Wake up my friend
jpc08109 2 years ago
I am awake. I've come torealize that we did not come from soup or monkeys. I've come to realize that we human beings have a purpose. od is reasonable. You just don't like the idea of submitting to someone more powerful than yourself.
vekl 2 years ago
No your wrong, I don't know where we come from, but I do trust science and it will only be a matter of time before we find the origins of the universe, And od is not reasonable, remember in the bible he could have easily said that salvery is bad or rape is bad did he NO, he told how much a slave should cost and what should happen if a woman gets raped in a city and she doesn't scream, she should be stoned to death because she didn't cry out for help and that means she wanted to be raped??????
jpc08109 2 years ago
veki
U really cant see what U R saying! We don't like submitting 2 someone more powerful than ourselves?? Thats the most rediculous Ive ever heard. I know its a favorite cop-out of Fundies, but its utter BS.
I spent many years in the military. I was in Vietnam. I took orders from those more powerful. I dont have a problem with that but I do have a problem with submitting 2 evil, 2 tyranny.
And btw, its a fact, we all have a common ancestor with the apes. Its a scientific fact. U R in denial
Cootabux 2 years ago
veki
I can't believe what U R saying!! We R a sinners? He's not? He's above evil? He creates evul! It is his essence!!
I'm serious dude, U should rethink this. I mean, I don't care if thats what U want, but don't piss off the roof & tell us below its raining!
U R trying to justify acts of terror, simply bcuz U R talking about a god! A suposedly all powerful demon!
Say what U want, but don't tell us he's above our standars! Damn right he don't think like we do. I am more moral than your god!
Cootabux 2 years ago