@kauiswim ..I am sure that the rest of the Unite members won't miss you. They certainly could do without a member who would see their pensions and wages slashed rather than join them in strike action. I do wonder what sort of future your children should expect when their parent is prepared to just sit back and allow wages, jobs and pensions to be slashed and their tuition fees will be raised? If you have your way I guess they should expect to have no privatised public services and be in debt fo
I cancelled my Unite membership on Nov 30th. That's money going to my kids, to help them become something better, and if I can save enough, and if I can go without things enough, I'll make sure they don't end up in a job like mine. Yes - others will call them "privileged" because of the school I aim to send them to - but I don't care because I want what's best for them and not me - and in THAT way, they will be priviliged.
Do the government want people to be forced on to unemployment and state pension benefits? Who will be paying for that? At least now public sector workers contribute towards their pensions, and they pay tax and national insurance etc. This government want us to pay for their crisis with our jobs, pensions and public services while they and their cronies carry on living lives of luxury.
What a stupid video. The trade unions are ruining Britain. The government are having to make tough cuts, and they are effecting everyone. Cut because you work in the public sector why should you be treated any differently? There is no money to give anybody, Britain is in serious debt, and I think its simply stupid to cause a fuss and try to get money from a government which has non.
Here is some facts from the office of Statistics. 6954 Public sector workers. 15,664 Private sector. Bottom 10% weekly wage: Private=£112 (largely without pension) Public=149 (plus pension).
It goes on in the same vein through all the percentiles up to 90th percentile with a significant gap. Every 3 Private workers support a public Sector worker who earns more on average across 90% of percentiles, gets a pension on top and then moans and bitches about any 'attack' on their privilege.
@eojox118 Agree - Unite ( a union) commissioned a survey to find out what people really think (opinion).
But wait, 85% of people think those commonly-loved CEOs and never-derided MPs 'aren't doing enough' and of the puclic sector workers who's pensions are being slashed, the 'vast majority' think they're doing enough already?! No?! Really!? Funny that, I work in the private sector and I think I'm doing enough already too....Hmmm. the narrator's voice is very honest and punctuated though....
@alanparkinson84 also, I'd love to see the language used in the questions to get these stats. If asked to choose who is more honest, "Politicians or Public Sector Employees", I know who i'd pick... but what about, "Her Majesty's Government or Council Workers"?
Wages stopped going up when Maggie changed the system from cash to percentages in the early eighties. At the time I was getting £5 a year rise, she changed to percentage of income. 2% of £150 is only £3. I lost £2 ! ? Yet bosses wages went from strength to strength. 10% of nothing is still nothing!
IN 1983 the average wage was £15k! 38 years on it has gone up JUST £10k compared to white collar.
The MP's say the deal is a 'good one' If it's so good why don't they offer to sign up to the same terms? after all they are public sector workers too. The union bosses are no better, their pension rights should be identical to those of the majority of their members. If they aren't how can they honestly say they feel the pain of their members? Where were those same unions when the Labour party decided to tax the dividends on all our pensions? Both parties are politicising this recession IMHO.
I wish people would be careful about their grammar when writing really important things to try and get people on side. I know it shouldn't matter, but let's not give people the opportunity to pick holes.
If you check annuity rates you'll see that the return on the same amount increases the older you are, factual evidence that increased longevity impacts on financial planning.
Annuity rates are at an all-time low, this has occured in line with the dramatically increased 'earnings' of the Markets, which happened after de-regulation. There was over £1tr of expired annuities held by the insurance companies at the end of the 1980s. This was frittered away as bust followed bust over the last 20 years, with nothing to show for it , apart from closed factories and increased debt - both public and private - the 'Baron Albert Grant effect.'
I am a private sector worker for a small family run company(only 12 unite members). I am also a Unite union member. Unite has never once offered to challenge my employer to increase my pension. Why is this?. Also, the union rep in our area has been very difficult (impossible) to contact in the last month. Our pay deal went through with no representation. Unite need to help all their members not just the big public or private sector golliaths. Up the workers! good luck sis!
Sheesh can anyone in this country rise above the crabs in a barrel mentality and look at the issue rationally? Most of us have to work for someone else and are subordinated to a system (capitalism) in which none of us controls the profits of our productivity whether we're in the public or private sector. Why don't private sector workers demand a greater share of the wealth that their peoductivity creates, instead of resenting public sector workers or will you only be satisfied when none of us
Life expectancy has increased therefore pension funding should increase or reduced pensions inevitable. My own pension changed from defined benefit to defined contribution years ago. One cannot get more out than they put in!
I am very tired of hearing this mythical life expectancy argument - pensions are paid out of interest, not capital - if someone retires with an adequate pension pot, it should not matter if they live to 75 or 105. If there is a deficiency, it can only have been caused by the Markets, and the Markets should be made to pay - with lower bonuses, fees, commission and overall remuneration. And don't give me the rubbish that the Markets are vital - nothing in economic history supports that!
@mervhob The markets should pay because YOU CHOSE to put your pensions in a way which was dependent on the markets? If the markets go up and your pension increases in value, then should, symmetrically, the markets get the extra benefits from your now larger pension?
In the last 30 years, as bust followed boom, the net economic worth of GB Ltd steadiliy declined - like many you conflate Market activity with economic activity, which has never been the case. The Markets exist to milk funds for short term profit - never economic gain. I would be very happy if my private pension funds were allowed to put my pot to good economic use - to invest in productive jobs, factories and utilities. But, they are trapped by the dead hands of the Markets!
@mervhob No, the net economic worth of Britain has increased - simply put, people have more things which they value. This is imperfectly reflected in GDP. Please provide evidence for your claim that 'net economic worth' has declined.
Please provide evidence for your claim that 'the markets exist to milk funds for short term profit'. If you don't want your pension funds used in a certain way, DON'T INVEST THEM LIKE THAT! Put it under your mattress, or a safety deposit box. It's your choice.
No, the economic worth of GB Ltd has decreased - fewer factories, fewer productive jobs, overvalued property, rampant speculative fraud. Remember the Dot.Con bubble of the late 1990s? - all those slickers with worthless proposals crying, 'As soon as I 'as me first £150M, I'm orf!' And they were.. You provide some evidence to the contrary. The Markets are not, and have never been, capitalist, although they love to claim so - and choice on pensions in company schemes - doesn't exist.
and yes I am also saying the "OWNERS", their Gofers and sharholders divied up the the massive profits from increased profitability. That;s why we now have a situation in which the gap between rich and not rich is bigger than it has ever been. They paid themselves more and paid everbody else less.
My wages are a good 10% LOWER than the private sector. I see a lot of comments from people who have lost Millions out of private pensions....and thats shite...but nothing was stopping you mobilising and doing something about it...we are. Some of you might hate us...Some of you might happily take your kids out of school for two weeks during term time and not worry too much about their education.. (So stop complaining about one day) We're willing to fight for what's ours...Maybe you should too.
Public Sector workers in Scotland have been on a pay FREEZE for the last three years. The front-line workers ,like me, are out working at any time of the day on any day of the year. We take stick and abuse that most people wouldn't put up with to make sure your old folks are looked after, your roads are kept clear, your kids are looked after in Nursery's, You rubbish is taken away, your streets are kept clean, your golf courses are playable , your dead are buried or cremated.Try life without us
this is all down to greedy private companies raiding their pension pots, trying to lower the cost of employing people and devalue their labour generally.
@chillitotes that is so not the case. Public sector unions have for years campaigned for investment in jobs across the board - and education and training and working conditions
@mrhightown1 I am not a public sector worker I work in the private sector but I think the public sector work hard and I am sick to death of these people being vilified and demonised. They do have job insecurity too as a lot of services particularly in social services are commissioned and contracts tend to only las 3-5 years. Also there are a lot of agency staff employed in the NHS and schools.
@chillitotes The front-line jobs are not what is being vilified here. The bloating of the public sector and their attitudes in this crisis are. Where were they when our pay was being cut, pensions removed. Yet we pay for them in the first place and we all know the public sector as it stands in not affordable any more. Something that is forgotten it seems.
OK then, lets just all lay down and take whatever c*!p is put to us. Some earn less, so lets all earn less, the minimum wage stops job creation - so get rid of it. Private sector has reduced pension benefits, so lets all agree to our pensions being reduced. Personally I'm not accepting it from a bunch of privately educated privileged toffs. I refuse to accept punishment for choosing public service over private profit. Unite and FIGHT!
Absolute nonsense - the profits get divied up among share holders & CEOs. We get wage stagnation rather than wage increases, despite vastly increased productivity. Get your facts right man.
@justanotherpeasant You appear to be suggesting that wages haven't been increasing as productivity has increased (since the industrial revolution). Be more careful with how you write, people will take you to be uninformed if they think that's what you're saying.
Er hello what part of wage stagnaition did you not get? The stagnation part is the clue that tells ya wages STOPPED going up. In others words - there a period of wage INCREASE which came to an end. Now we can argue over when the stagnation began but your straw man is one of lamest I've seen in a long time. Smh take your own advice - genius.
I see however that you ARE asserting what you seemed to be. It's obviously absurd to say that wages have stagnated whilst CEOs and shareholders 'divvy up' the profits. You simply cannot have bothered to look at the data before you asserted that. I suggest that you do so, before saying such things again.
Yes am I saying that wages stagnated, but not beginning during the Industrial Revolution. The consensus seems to be around 70s, for a number or reasons - immigration, women entering the workforce, more efficient means of production etc but I'd be happy to read your "better informed" take on it. smh
@justanotherpeasant So you are saying there is no Corporation tax? Last time I looked there was. And on another point - profitable companies employ staff who pay tax. Get YOUR facts right man.
Try this - Tax loop hole, tax subsidy, tax haven all of which equals Corporations who pay less tax than the average unemployed jobseeker. Also try this - Outsourcing, exporting jobs to China and India, redundancies and er zero job creation by the Corporations. By the way aren't these the same companies who keep threatening to move abroad if we try to make em pay ANY tax? FACTS MAN FACTS - backatya..
Who said Corporations don't pay any taxes? what I (and others who are far more qualified to say it), am saying is that Corporations don't pay their mandated share. The shortfall of Corporate tax reciepts is currently running at 95bn. Corporations and the rich still owe the tax man a further 95bn, which they've avoided paying by hiding the money. If the rich payed as much as tax as the not rich - we wouldn't have deficit at all.
@justanotherpeasant So you take 'facts' from UK uncut a political site. Your logic is that if we can claw back this '£95Bn' we should go out and spend it on more public service, rather than pay towards the huge public debt which is heading towards several trillion UKP. And your mathematical logic is that '£95bn' = several Trillion. i.e. if we taxed the rich we would have no deficit. It is this type of lunatic thinking that will destroy the UK.
The last Unite Leader, Derek Simpson, left his post with a golden handshake of over £500,000 plus a super pension. That's thanks to my working class contributions that was. So Unite are trusted more than MPs and bosses are they? Well they would say that, wouldn't they.
@colynnicholls If the union members knew how their money was being spent within the union, I am not sure there would be so many members. I say this as a former Shop Steward, Area Committee member and Regional Committee member.
Perhaps if your full sick pay, extra holidays (Queens birthday etc) was taken away your pensions could stay the same?
Yes, I totally agree brownbasset & yougreattwit! I know; my wife is public sector (ps). No one wants to pay more for the same benefits, but she accepts it must be paid for somehow. If ps workers don't pay more now, EVERYONE will pay more later! My pension was hit 4 years ago - I pay as much & I’ve lost my defined benefits - it’s not as good as PROPOSED ps pensions and I’m paid LESS than my ps peers! So get real, things change; it's hard - but why should we pay for you to live in the past?
Plus with teachers going on strike, they continue to earn their wages, however a self employed person such as myself now has to take the day off, loosing me over £150 in pay, will Unite reimburse me for my losses (i think not), money I could well do with to put into my self funded pension! How much money will be lost tomorrow by the private sector/self employed workforce to make a point for the public sector? At the end of the day Unite only look after their paying members. Shame.
What a total lot of rubbish! Public sector pensions on average are 25% higher than in the private sector. the Government is taking simple action to level the playing field and help the economic recovery. People who work for themselves have no contributions from employers and are solely responsible for their own pensions, the harder they work the more they can contribute to their pensions. Public sector workers seem to feel they deserve a better pension than other working people, WHY?
I thought this video was going to tell us FACTS! not just more opinions! There are a lot of people having their pensions slashed in the private sector as well (including mine). I will need details before I start being sympathetic towards this group, however big it is. As a former Unite rep. I find it hard to believe anyone in this argument, there is just so much hype and spin from everywhere.
@chillitotes The tax public sector workers pay comes from the Private sector in the first place!!! It is not 'real tax' in the true sense of the word. And I very much doubt most public sector workers do work as long and hard as the private sector who are with no doubt more protected. Your jobs do not get outsourced abroad with the remaining staff living in fear of who goes next.
Lambspark the government has admitted that the 3% increase in pension contributions will not be used to fund pensions but to help clear the deficit. Therefore public sector workers are being taxed and penalised for something they didn't cause.
@chillitotes The public sector pension liabilities are part of the deficit!!! You do not believe for one moment the government has the trillion pounds or so laying in pension funds. They borrow it to pay your gold plated pensions.
You only report what people say in a telephone survey! Now I believe that the strike action is entirely justified, but you don't say why at all in this video. Sorry, it was a waste of time ...
Private sector workers should ask their pension providers why the Markets have so degraded the value of funds that capital invested now has a declining value year on year. Living longer is not a valid excuse; in the 19th century capital value increased, but since deregulation in the 1980s, sky high bonuses, fat fees, commissions, and widespread gambling via derivatives, capital is no longer safe in the hands of such people. Public sector pensions have never been 'gold plated', City bonuses are!
You do not address the glaring deficiency of poor private fund performance, and its causes - we will have no growth until this issue is corrected. It is ludricous to talk of the growth which is so necessary in the private sector, when all the Banks and the Markets can deliver is a blizzard of waste paper, and ridiculous fees. Money must be put to work and its back whipped raw, as was done in the early 19th century - not the paying of unearnt commissions to fraudsters!
@mervhob The banks hoarding of capital to gamble speculatively is yet another issue and one I am sure everyone agrees on. However, the books still need to be balanced and we cannot afford a bloated public sector on the back of a shrinking private sector. Private pensions are exposed to this fraud more than government backed public sector pensions. Public sector workers need appreciate what they have had not drag us all down.
People in the private sector - this is OUR money being spent. Average salaries in the public sector ARE HIGHER on average. We work increasingly longer hours, under more stress to support a bloated public sector. PAYE TAX, National Insurance, Employers NI, VAT, Fuel tax, Insurance tax, stamp duty.... and lets not forget council tax..... - CAN WE AFFORD IT ALL?????? UNITE - you should be ashamed, where were you when we were being hammered into the ground? Oh yes - you took our subscriptions.
We ARE all making sacrifeces. Including public sector workers. As an NHS professinal. I havent had a salary increase in 2 years. I am paid considerabley less (at least £10K p/a) than my private sector piers. We work for the NHS becasue we believe in it and want EVERYONE to access to good free heathcare. It would be very easy for me to take my skills to the private sector but I decide not to do so. Lets not forget we DO contribute to our pensions and we DO pay taxes.
Excellent. Workers pay and conditions are under attack and what's happening is a classic 'divide and rule' tactic. Don't fall for it, don't demonise the public sector, all workers have a lot to gain from a more equal society. This should not be a race to the bottom in terms of pay, conditions and public provision.
@altdottom absolutely spot on. I was ranting about this to a relative of mine this morning while listening to Radio 5 live. I'm sick to the back teeth of private sector workers sniping at those in the public sector. Now is the time for all workers to 'unite' in order to stop the government's assault on the ordinary man and woman. Those walking out tomorrow will have my full support. All the best.
‘Brother Karamazov’, I'm an ordinary man and I'm not 'sniping' at the public sector (My wife is public sector). However, I've paid more for my pension for 4 YEARS and unlike most of the public sector, have LOST my defined benefit scheme. Can you provide a reasoned argument – not (in your own words) a rant – as to why public should be treated differently to private and if you actually can, who is going to pay for it? Do you expect me to pay for your pension? Incidentally, I'm not a Tory.
Being retired on SERPS and two small private pensions, I watch with horror the steady decline but, I do understand why. We can only have good pensions, both public and private, in a productive economy. This we have not had since the disasterous decisions of the 1980s, and a succession of speculative booms - in property and equities, which had no positive economic output, other than to increase our downward spiral. The price of property goes up - the value of your money goes down!
Ain't that keen on hearing the results of telephone polls. Nice pop-up Einstein though! I'm a Unite member & of course I'll be involved tomorrow . . . but what happens tomorrow isn't *just* about pensions. That's just one piece of a complex conflict, which probably won't be won piecemeal. We want a world where it *doesn't* take a mass strike before our elected representatives take us seriously. We are furiously thinking, working and fighting for it.
@brownbasset You could save a lot of time by not capitalising the first letter of each word. Must take ages. Anyway, your bitterness and envy is worse than any of your grammatical errors, it's this aspect of human nature that has brought the world to its current state of affairs, so you could start by cutting it out.
People have seen there "Private" sector pensions hit in one way or another, either companies reducing contributions or pension funds getting smaller. Many companies no longer offer, final salary pensions. I think it is time to check reality, many of the people who have seen pensions and earnings go down are the people who pay the taxes that fund these pensions. My wife has not had a pay rise for 3 years ! , it's time for EVERYONE to dig deep and why should public sector workers be any different
Yet another attempt by the Unite to show it has muscle for the workers, but spins as much the HM Government. Absolutely nothing is offered, constructively, towards how the current financial situation REQUIRES sacrifice by us all - no exceptions. Those of us in the private sector have rubbish pensions too, you know. As citizens we are not being forced to make sacrifices, they are necessary; so citizens who care for each other should be making sacrifices - that's life as it should be.
Surely the view that public sector pensions are 'gold plated' refers to the fact that they are defined-benefit, not that they are huge? Employees whose pensions are defined-contribution don't know what pension they will actually get in retirement; public sector employees do, and can plan accordingly.
I agree with marktime069. This could have been better and more hard-edged. I've worked in the public sector and its important to remember the strike is for the very poorly paid members of the NHS etc , not the under-paid/under worked members of the same.
give us real facts- only useful but is that £6000 or less is the avaerage public sector pension- why is the union not arguing by using true fact rather tahn surveys that tell little
Was looking forward to this being powerful and actually saying something but there is no concrete debunking of anything here, it's all based on what you think are facts gleaned from telephone conversations with people.
These are only 'facts' about what people *think* when asked carefully structured questions.
There must be someone within the Union who can give real facts rather than what 8% of people 'would say'.
We are not the 99% - they are dying of starvation and persecution.
lol.
graemeh2009 2 months ago
@kauiswim ..(cont) for the rest of their lives. I don't think they will thank you for selling out their future.
queenofshebalala 3 months ago
@kauiswim ..I am sure that the rest of the Unite members won't miss you. They certainly could do without a member who would see their pensions and wages slashed rather than join them in strike action. I do wonder what sort of future your children should expect when their parent is prepared to just sit back and allow wages, jobs and pensions to be slashed and their tuition fees will be raised? If you have your way I guess they should expect to have no privatised public services and be in debt fo
queenofshebalala 3 months ago
I cancelled my Unite membership on Nov 30th. That's money going to my kids, to help them become something better, and if I can save enough, and if I can go without things enough, I'll make sure they don't end up in a job like mine. Yes - others will call them "privileged" because of the school I aim to send them to - but I don't care because I want what's best for them and not me - and in THAT way, they will be priviliged.
kauaiswim 3 months ago
Do the government want people to be forced on to unemployment and state pension benefits? Who will be paying for that? At least now public sector workers contribute towards their pensions, and they pay tax and national insurance etc. This government want us to pay for their crisis with our jobs, pensions and public services while they and their cronies carry on living lives of luxury.
queenofshebalala 3 months ago
The public sector are wanting something for nothing, not unlike other members of society.
They're in my eyes just as bad as those people who want maximum input from tax payers and in return we, as tax payers, get a minimum input from them.
It has to change.
Do not think you have strength in numbers either, all you're doing by striking is weakening your position with the majority who pay your bills.
groove862j 3 months ago
I don't think the public sector are being fair, this whole economic situation is one big crap sandwich and we all have to take a bite.
Everyone is struggling with bills and everyone will be having a tough xmas but the public sector are making things worse.
Surely we are all in the same boat together?
groove862j 3 months ago
What a stupid video. The trade unions are ruining Britain. The government are having to make tough cuts, and they are effecting everyone. Cut because you work in the public sector why should you be treated any differently? There is no money to give anybody, Britain is in serious debt, and I think its simply stupid to cause a fuss and try to get money from a government which has non.
martinhjoshjr 3 months ago
@martinhjoshjr amen
aspinate 3 months ago
Here is some facts from the office of Statistics. 6954 Public sector workers. 15,664 Private sector. Bottom 10% weekly wage: Private=£112 (largely without pension) Public=149 (plus pension).
It goes on in the same vein through all the percentiles up to 90th percentile with a significant gap. Every 3 Private workers support a public Sector worker who earns more on average across 90% of percentiles, gets a pension on top and then moans and bitches about any 'attack' on their privilege.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
"Here are the facts"..."so and so think that...". Erm... if it's what people think, it's not a fact, it's an opinion.
eojox118 3 months ago
@eojox118 Agree - Unite ( a union) commissioned a survey to find out what people really think (opinion).
But wait, 85% of people think those commonly-loved CEOs and never-derided MPs 'aren't doing enough' and of the puclic sector workers who's pensions are being slashed, the 'vast majority' think they're doing enough already?! No?! Really!? Funny that, I work in the private sector and I think I'm doing enough already too....Hmmm. the narrator's voice is very honest and punctuated though....
alanparkinson84 3 months ago
@alanparkinson84 also, I'd love to see the language used in the questions to get these stats. If asked to choose who is more honest, "Politicians or Public Sector Employees", I know who i'd pick... but what about, "Her Majesty's Government or Council Workers"?
eojox118 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wages stopped going up when Maggie changed the system from cash to percentages in the early eighties. At the time I was getting £5 a year rise, she changed to percentage of income. 2% of £150 is only £3. I lost £2 ! ? Yet bosses wages went from strength to strength. 10% of nothing is still nothing!
IN 1983 the average wage was £15k! 38 years on it has gone up JUST £10k compared to white collar.
ROLLO2able 3 months ago
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ROLLO2able 3 months ago
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ROLLO2able 3 months ago
The MP's say the deal is a 'good one' If it's so good why don't they offer to sign up to the same terms? after all they are public sector workers too. The union bosses are no better, their pension rights should be identical to those of the majority of their members. If they aren't how can they honestly say they feel the pain of their members? Where were those same unions when the Labour party decided to tax the dividends on all our pensions? Both parties are politicising this recession IMHO.
mabalsaritchy 3 months ago
Stop giving £50,000,000 + a day to the EU.Problem solved.
bermudarailway 3 months ago
A short video THAT debunks…
I wish people would be careful about their grammar when writing really important things to try and get people on side. I know it shouldn't matter, but let's not give people the opportunity to pick holes.
jamiewindsor 3 months ago
If you check annuity rates you'll see that the return on the same amount increases the older you are, factual evidence that increased longevity impacts on financial planning.
mykylyn1 3 months ago
@mykylyn1
Annuity rates are at an all-time low, this has occured in line with the dramatically increased 'earnings' of the Markets, which happened after de-regulation. There was over £1tr of expired annuities held by the insurance companies at the end of the 1980s. This was frittered away as bust followed bust over the last 20 years, with nothing to show for it , apart from closed factories and increased debt - both public and private - the 'Baron Albert Grant effect.'
mervhob 3 months ago
I am a private sector worker for a small family run company(only 12 unite members). I am also a Unite union member. Unite has never once offered to challenge my employer to increase my pension. Why is this?. Also, the union rep in our area has been very difficult (impossible) to contact in the last month. Our pay deal went through with no representation. Unite need to help all their members not just the big public or private sector golliaths. Up the workers! good luck sis!
w1ganchris 3 months ago
Comment removed
princessclairey 3 months ago
Nice to hear Unite - Keep the FACTS coming.
8154offshore 3 months ago
In order to debunk the government's lies on pensions, you did a survey of the general public's view on pensions and who to trust?
Finding it very hard to take this seriously.
theycallhim 3 months ago
Sheesh can anyone in this country rise above the crabs in a barrel mentality and look at the issue rationally? Most of us have to work for someone else and are subordinated to a system (capitalism) in which none of us controls the profits of our productivity whether we're in the public or private sector. Why don't private sector workers demand a greater share of the wealth that their peoductivity creates, instead of resenting public sector workers or will you only be satisfied when none of us
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
has any rights or benefits and employers are able to impose any conditions on workers?
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
Life expectancy has increased therefore pension funding should increase or reduced pensions inevitable. My own pension changed from defined benefit to defined contribution years ago. One cannot get more out than they put in!
mykylyn1 3 months ago
@mykylyn1
I am very tired of hearing this mythical life expectancy argument - pensions are paid out of interest, not capital - if someone retires with an adequate pension pot, it should not matter if they live to 75 or 105. If there is a deficiency, it can only have been caused by the Markets, and the Markets should be made to pay - with lower bonuses, fees, commission and overall remuneration. And don't give me the rubbish that the Markets are vital - nothing in economic history supports that!
mervhob 3 months ago
@mervhob The markets should pay because YOU CHOSE to put your pensions in a way which was dependent on the markets? If the markets go up and your pension increases in value, then should, symmetrically, the markets get the extra benefits from your now larger pension?
theycallhim 3 months ago
@theycallhim
In the last 30 years, as bust followed boom, the net economic worth of GB Ltd steadiliy declined - like many you conflate Market activity with economic activity, which has never been the case. The Markets exist to milk funds for short term profit - never economic gain. I would be very happy if my private pension funds were allowed to put my pot to good economic use - to invest in productive jobs, factories and utilities. But, they are trapped by the dead hands of the Markets!
mervhob 3 months ago
@mervhob No, the net economic worth of Britain has increased - simply put, people have more things which they value. This is imperfectly reflected in GDP. Please provide evidence for your claim that 'net economic worth' has declined.
Please provide evidence for your claim that 'the markets exist to milk funds for short term profit'. If you don't want your pension funds used in a certain way, DON'T INVEST THEM LIKE THAT! Put it under your mattress, or a safety deposit box. It's your choice.
theycallhim 3 months ago
@theycallhim
No, the economic worth of GB Ltd has decreased - fewer factories, fewer productive jobs, overvalued property, rampant speculative fraud. Remember the Dot.Con bubble of the late 1990s? - all those slickers with worthless proposals crying, 'As soon as I 'as me first £150M, I'm orf!' And they were.. You provide some evidence to the contrary. The Markets are not, and have never been, capitalist, although they love to claim so - and choice on pensions in company schemes - doesn't exist.
mervhob 3 months ago
@theycallhim
and yes I am also saying the "OWNERS", their Gofers and sharholders divied up the the massive profits from increased profitability. That;s why we now have a situation in which the gap between rich and not rich is bigger than it has ever been. They paid themselves more and paid everbody else less.
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
My wages are a good 10% LOWER than the private sector. I see a lot of comments from people who have lost Millions out of private pensions....and thats shite...but nothing was stopping you mobilising and doing something about it...we are. Some of you might hate us...Some of you might happily take your kids out of school for two weeks during term time and not worry too much about their education.. (So stop complaining about one day) We're willing to fight for what's ours...Maybe you should too.
TheReedwaterTerrier 3 months ago 3
Public Sector workers in Scotland have been on a pay FREEZE for the last three years. The front-line workers ,like me, are out working at any time of the day on any day of the year. We take stick and abuse that most people wouldn't put up with to make sure your old folks are looked after, your roads are kept clear, your kids are looked after in Nursery's, You rubbish is taken away, your streets are kept clean, your golf courses are playable , your dead are buried or cremated.Try life without us
TheReedwaterTerrier 3 months ago 2
this is all down to greedy private companies raiding their pension pots, trying to lower the cost of employing people and devalue their labour generally.
dvschsa 3 months ago
@chillitotes that is so not the case. Public sector unions have for years campaigned for investment in jobs across the board - and education and training and working conditions
rsydes 3 months ago
Here it?
daftat 3 months ago
Yay I don't have to put the bin out for tomorrow.
plenty12DOTblogspot 3 months ago
@mrhightown1 I am not a public sector worker I work in the private sector but I think the public sector work hard and I am sick to death of these people being vilified and demonised. They do have job insecurity too as a lot of services particularly in social services are commissioned and contracts tend to only las 3-5 years. Also there are a lot of agency staff employed in the NHS and schools.
chillitotes 3 months ago 4
@chillitotes The front-line jobs are not what is being vilified here. The bloating of the public sector and their attitudes in this crisis are. Where were they when our pay was being cut, pensions removed. Yet we pay for them in the first place and we all know the public sector as it stands in not affordable any more. Something that is forgotten it seems.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
OK then, lets just all lay down and take whatever c*!p is put to us. Some earn less, so lets all earn less, the minimum wage stops job creation - so get rid of it. Private sector has reduced pension benefits, so lets all agree to our pensions being reduced. Personally I'm not accepting it from a bunch of privately educated privileged toffs. I refuse to accept punishment for choosing public service over private profit. Unite and FIGHT!
rsydes 3 months ago 22
@rsyde Wealth does not just appear magically. UK needs to make things and sell them. The profit gets taxed and pays for the public sector.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
@MrHightown1
Absolute nonsense - the profits get divied up among share holders & CEOs. We get wage stagnation rather than wage increases, despite vastly increased productivity. Get your facts right man.
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
@justanotherpeasant You appear to be suggesting that wages haven't been increasing as productivity has increased (since the industrial revolution). Be more careful with how you write, people will take you to be uninformed if they think that's what you're saying.
theycallhim 3 months ago
@theycallhim
Er hello what part of wage stagnaition did you not get? The stagnation part is the clue that tells ya wages STOPPED going up. In others words - there a period of wage INCREASE which came to an end. Now we can argue over when the stagnation began but your straw man is one of lamest I've seen in a long time. Smh take your own advice - genius.
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
@justanotherpeasant Calm down, was just trying to help.
I see however that you ARE asserting what you seemed to be. It's obviously absurd to say that wages have stagnated whilst CEOs and shareholders 'divvy up' the profits. You simply cannot have bothered to look at the data before you asserted that. I suggest that you do so, before saying such things again.
theycallhim 3 months ago
@theycallhim
Yes am I saying that wages stagnated, but not beginning during the Industrial Revolution. The consensus seems to be around 70s, for a number or reasons - immigration, women entering the workforce, more efficient means of production etc but I'd be happy to read your "better informed" take on it. smh
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
@justanotherpeasant So you are saying there is no Corporation tax? Last time I looked there was. And on another point - profitable companies employ staff who pay tax. Get YOUR facts right man.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
@MrHightown1
Hah! LOL
Try this - Tax loop hole, tax subsidy, tax haven all of which equals Corporations who pay less tax than the average unemployed jobseeker. Also try this - Outsourcing, exporting jobs to China and India, redundancies and er zero job creation by the Corporations. By the way aren't these the same companies who keep threatening to move abroad if we try to make em pay ANY tax? FACTS MAN FACTS - backatya..
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
@justanotherpeasant So, here is your logic. The Corporations do not pay ANY tax - so the $51Bn in govt stats is a lie.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
@MrHightown1
Who said Corporations don't pay any taxes? what I (and others who are far more qualified to say it), am saying is that Corporations don't pay their mandated share. The shortfall of Corporate tax reciepts is currently running at 95bn. Corporations and the rich still owe the tax man a further 95bn, which they've avoided paying by hiding the money. If the rich payed as much as tax as the not rich - we wouldn't have deficit at all.
TAX THE RICH - INCREASE PUBLIC SPENDING.
justanotherpeasant 3 months ago
@justanotherpeasant So you take 'facts' from UK uncut a political site. Your logic is that if we can claw back this '£95Bn' we should go out and spend it on more public service, rather than pay towards the huge public debt which is heading towards several trillion UKP. And your mathematical logic is that '£95bn' = several Trillion. i.e. if we taxed the rich we would have no deficit. It is this type of lunatic thinking that will destroy the UK.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
@rsydes Well said!
pietrobembo 3 months ago
Rights and Wrongs aside, that presentation was an insult to our intelligence, shame on you unite
mabalsaritchy 3 months ago
Utter rubbish. Strikes are not the way forward, grow up and talk sensibly. At the very least take the moral high ground, striking is for losers.
63mrseaman 3 months ago
The last Unite Leader, Derek Simpson, left his post with a golden handshake of over £500,000 plus a super pension. That's thanks to my working class contributions that was. So Unite are trusted more than MPs and bosses are they? Well they would say that, wouldn't they.
colynnicholls 3 months ago
@colynnicholls If the union members knew how their money was being spent within the union, I am not sure there would be so many members. I say this as a former Shop Steward, Area Committee member and Regional Committee member.
Perhaps if your full sick pay, extra holidays (Queens birthday etc) was taken away your pensions could stay the same?
63mrseaman 3 months ago
Yes, I totally agree brownbasset & yougreattwit! I know; my wife is public sector (ps). No one wants to pay more for the same benefits, but she accepts it must be paid for somehow. If ps workers don't pay more now, EVERYONE will pay more later! My pension was hit 4 years ago - I pay as much & I’ve lost my defined benefits - it’s not as good as PROPOSED ps pensions and I’m paid LESS than my ps peers! So get real, things change; it's hard - but why should we pay for you to live in the past?
Mart00004 3 months ago
Plus with teachers going on strike, they continue to earn their wages, however a self employed person such as myself now has to take the day off, loosing me over £150 in pay, will Unite reimburse me for my losses (i think not), money I could well do with to put into my self funded pension! How much money will be lost tomorrow by the private sector/self employed workforce to make a point for the public sector? At the end of the day Unite only look after their paying members. Shame.
Francklindro 3 months ago
@Francklindro - When anybody goes on strike, they lose pay, including teachers!
Mart00004 3 months ago
@Francklindro Uh... I'm a teacher, I'm going on strike, and I am losing a day's pay. Wherever did you get the idea that we would still be paid?
princessclairey 3 months ago
What a total lot of rubbish! Public sector pensions on average are 25% higher than in the private sector. the Government is taking simple action to level the playing field and help the economic recovery. People who work for themselves have no contributions from employers and are solely responsible for their own pensions, the harder they work the more they can contribute to their pensions. Public sector workers seem to feel they deserve a better pension than other working people, WHY?
Francklindro 3 months ago
I thought this video was going to tell us FACTS! not just more opinions! There are a lot of people having their pensions slashed in the private sector as well (including mine). I will need details before I start being sympathetic towards this group, however big it is. As a former Unite rep. I find it hard to believe anyone in this argument, there is just so much hype and spin from everywhere.
wazzogrande 3 months ago
Mr Hightown Public Sector workers work hard and long hours too and they pay tax just like everyone else
chillitotes 3 months ago
@chillitotes The tax public sector workers pay comes from the Private sector in the first place!!! It is not 'real tax' in the true sense of the word. And I very much doubt most public sector workers do work as long and hard as the private sector who are with no doubt more protected. Your jobs do not get outsourced abroad with the remaining staff living in fear of who goes next.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
If you are the 99% - why is that not reflected in the likes/dislikes above?
MrHightown1 3 months ago
Lambspark the government has admitted that the 3% increase in pension contributions will not be used to fund pensions but to help clear the deficit. Therefore public sector workers are being taxed and penalised for something they didn't cause.
chillitotes 3 months ago
@chillitotes The public sector pension liabilities are part of the deficit!!! You do not believe for one moment the government has the trillion pounds or so laying in pension funds. They borrow it to pay your gold plated pensions.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
You only report what people say in a telephone survey! Now I believe that the strike action is entirely justified, but you don't say why at all in this video. Sorry, it was a waste of time ...
drcjeynes 3 months ago
Private sector workers should ask their pension providers why the Markets have so degraded the value of funds that capital invested now has a declining value year on year. Living longer is not a valid excuse; in the 19th century capital value increased, but since deregulation in the 1980s, sky high bonuses, fat fees, commissions, and widespread gambling via derivatives, capital is no longer safe in the hands of such people. Public sector pensions have never been 'gold plated', City bonuses are!
mervhob 3 months ago
@mervhob Public sector pensions are relatively 'gold plated' compared to private funds. They are backed by the Government.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
@MrHightown1
You do not address the glaring deficiency of poor private fund performance, and its causes - we will have no growth until this issue is corrected. It is ludricous to talk of the growth which is so necessary in the private sector, when all the Banks and the Markets can deliver is a blizzard of waste paper, and ridiculous fees. Money must be put to work and its back whipped raw, as was done in the early 19th century - not the paying of unearnt commissions to fraudsters!
mervhob 3 months ago
@mervhob The banks hoarding of capital to gamble speculatively is yet another issue and one I am sure everyone agrees on. However, the books still need to be balanced and we cannot afford a bloated public sector on the back of a shrinking private sector. Private pensions are exposed to this fraud more than government backed public sector pensions. Public sector workers need appreciate what they have had not drag us all down.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
You will not lose the pensions you have already paid for, as agreed and understood when you started your employment...
This is a change to your future contributions....
If able, yes, then go get a job that gives you what you want - I doubt if you will find better than what you have/will have.
Quit your moaning, help us to get this country back on it's feet and stable for all of us as we reach our retirement.
Lambspark 3 months ago
People in the private sector - this is OUR money being spent. Average salaries in the public sector ARE HIGHER on average. We work increasingly longer hours, under more stress to support a bloated public sector. PAYE TAX, National Insurance, Employers NI, VAT, Fuel tax, Insurance tax, stamp duty.... and lets not forget council tax..... - CAN WE AFFORD IT ALL?????? UNITE - you should be ashamed, where were you when we were being hammered into the ground? Oh yes - you took our subscriptions.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
We ARE all making sacrifeces. Including public sector workers. As an NHS professinal. I havent had a salary increase in 2 years. I am paid considerabley less (at least £10K p/a) than my private sector piers. We work for the NHS becasue we believe in it and want EVERYONE to access to good free heathcare. It would be very easy for me to take my skills to the private sector but I decide not to do so. Lets not forget we DO contribute to our pensions and we DO pay taxes.
Peeboin 3 months ago 2
Excellent. Workers pay and conditions are under attack and what's happening is a classic 'divide and rule' tactic. Don't fall for it, don't demonise the public sector, all workers have a lot to gain from a more equal society. This should not be a race to the bottom in terms of pay, conditions and public provision.
altdottom 3 months ago
@altdottom absolutely spot on. I was ranting about this to a relative of mine this morning while listening to Radio 5 live. I'm sick to the back teeth of private sector workers sniping at those in the public sector. Now is the time for all workers to 'unite' in order to stop the government's assault on the ordinary man and woman. Those walking out tomorrow will have my full support. All the best.
BroKaramazov 3 months ago 15
@BroKaramazov You may be sick of us ranting about it. I am sick of paying for it and feel justified to snipe.
MrHightown1 3 months ago
‘Brother Karamazov’, I'm an ordinary man and I'm not 'sniping' at the public sector (My wife is public sector). However, I've paid more for my pension for 4 YEARS and unlike most of the public sector, have LOST my defined benefit scheme. Can you provide a reasoned argument – not (in your own words) a rant – as to why public should be treated differently to private and if you actually can, who is going to pay for it? Do you expect me to pay for your pension? Incidentally, I'm not a Tory.
Mart00004 3 months ago
@Mart00004
Being retired on SERPS and two small private pensions, I watch with horror the steady decline but, I do understand why. We can only have good pensions, both public and private, in a productive economy. This we have not had since the disasterous decisions of the 1980s, and a succession of speculative booms - in property and equities, which had no positive economic output, other than to increase our downward spiral. The price of property goes up - the value of your money goes down!
mervhob 3 months ago
Ain't that keen on hearing the results of telephone polls. Nice pop-up Einstein though! I'm a Unite member & of course I'll be involved tomorrow . . . but what happens tomorrow isn't *just* about pensions. That's just one piece of a complex conflict, which probably won't be won piecemeal. We want a world where it *doesn't* take a mass strike before our elected representatives take us seriously. We are furiously thinking, working and fighting for it.
franciscrot 3 months ago
Sorry but Why should I contribute through my Council Tax for Them to Have Something the Rest of Us Had!!! to Give Up Years Ago.
I Cannot Afford it Nor Can This Country.
Get Real the Lot Of You.
brownbasset 3 months ago
@brownbasset You could save a lot of time by not capitalising the first letter of each word. Must take ages. Anyway, your bitterness and envy is worse than any of your grammatical errors, it's this aspect of human nature that has brought the world to its current state of affairs, so you could start by cutting it out.
CarBoreBoy 3 months ago
People have seen there "Private" sector pensions hit in one way or another, either companies reducing contributions or pension funds getting smaller. Many companies no longer offer, final salary pensions. I think it is time to check reality, many of the people who have seen pensions and earnings go down are the people who pay the taxes that fund these pensions. My wife has not had a pay rise for 3 years ! , it's time for EVERYONE to dig deep and why should public sector workers be any different
stevesinturkey 3 months ago
Yet another attempt by the Unite to show it has muscle for the workers, but spins as much the HM Government. Absolutely nothing is offered, constructively, towards how the current financial situation REQUIRES sacrifice by us all - no exceptions. Those of us in the private sector have rubbish pensions too, you know. As citizens we are not being forced to make sacrifices, they are necessary; so citizens who care for each other should be making sacrifices - that's life as it should be.
yougreattwit 3 months ago
Surely the view that public sector pensions are 'gold plated' refers to the fact that they are defined-benefit, not that they are huge? Employees whose pensions are defined-contribution don't know what pension they will actually get in retirement; public sector employees do, and can plan accordingly.
bbisset1 3 months ago 2
I agree with marktime069. This could have been better and more hard-edged. I've worked in the public sector and its important to remember the strike is for the very poorly paid members of the NHS etc , not the under-paid/under worked members of the same.
pelvicthrustful 3 months ago
I agree with all the previous comments - where are the FACTS.
sammy1sae1 3 months ago
this only tells us of statistics from a phone poll. I would have hoped for some hard figures with regards to our pensions not a poll result.
I am in favour of the strike action but feel this does nothing to help the cause!!
and don't feel it would be doing any favours by reposting
marktime069 3 months ago
give us real facts- only useful but is that £6000 or less is the avaerage public sector pension- why is the union not arguing by using true fact rather tahn surveys that tell little
ruraltouringforum 3 months ago
Excellent video!
TradeUnionTVIreland 3 months ago
Was looking forward to this being powerful and actually saying something but there is no concrete debunking of anything here, it's all based on what you think are facts gleaned from telephone conversations with people.
These are only 'facts' about what people *think* when asked carefully structured questions.
There must be someone within the Union who can give real facts rather than what 8% of people 'would say'.
We are not the 99% - they are dying of starvation and persecution.
CarBoreBoy 3 months ago