Willing To Fly - Peregrine Falcon

[Phoenixmike100]

What that bird is doing thru the air is AMAZING.....

[ParisLoOfficialTV]

WOW THAT WAS AMAZING! ;)

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

Yes, a privilege to have flown with the falcon.  I will be releasing a shot documentary about the experience.

[thonglredjunglefowl]

HHaaaaaaHHHHHHHH what a video!!!!!!!!!!

[huggurjao]

Quem veio aqui pelo comentário do GUI PÁDUAna fazenda da um joinha

[FalconeriaItaliana]

davvero emozionante , complimenti......

[Fishmonger1966]

That has to be one of the most amazing skydiving videos I've ever seen. LOVED IT!!!

[panthercb]

Super!!!

[pgpete]

"That's not flying - that's just falling with style ! "

[lossPhotos]

absolutely beautiful video

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

By the way, if you are interested in the DVD that contains this material, it is called "Willing To Fly" and its available at normankent and through Amazon

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

No, not a wild falcon, that is the trainer with her in freefall! It was a privilege to make all the jumps with them for the filming. The footage led to a National Geographic special named "Terminal Velocity" and an IMAX shoot. It was all cool experience!

[josephdupont]

So was this a wild falcon???? In either case this is an amazing video.

Thanks for capturing it .. It heightens the human spirit.

It can make you tear a little too.

[mouadeath]

i wanna be a falcon

[lilsvick]

As good as it gets!!!!

thanks...

[charlesparenteau]

This guy is the guy!!!

[Littlelynx1]

wow!!!

[vvvasp]

This is just excellent footage.

[hex0bite]

The footage is unbelievable for sure.

But I can't understand why they put rt call on a pere video? It's at the end.

[SptifireAce]

those peregrines are absolutely amazing. When the come out of a stoop, they undergo 25g's!

[wafflsz]

Just breathtaking! The photographer's skill in this video is only surpassed by the beauty and strength of these magnificent birds.

[kokumaru]

This Agfoster jr dumb fuck dosen't know anything baout any raptors. That much is obvious. Probably some nerdy physics loser who thinks he has some kind of rare insight.

He dosen't realise or even know that there are many other raptors out there that can surpass 100mph while stooping...

the Golden eagles has be said to achive peregrine speed in stooping as well...

[houston81]

These birds are amazing!!!!!!! I wished I were a falcon I would attack humans all the time!!!!!!!!

[SECRETSTAR888]

and the distance part dont come into it their only 20 or 30ft above your head sometimes, and ive got other theories i cant prove tho, i think maybe its got something to do with the design of their wing maybe the same pricipal that gives a wing lift also creates speed in a dive, they pull their wings in but not totally, why? maybe it somehow creates speed.

[SECRETSTAR888]

ive seen falcons dive with hardly any hieght at all and the speed they pull makes me really think their using more then just gravity, theres other forces at work that humans have discovered yet.

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

I am not ur whathe question was, in ur case in frefall, the falcon made he wings outand not fully tucked in to sow down to our 120 mph speed. Later when working with National Geo. Ken made the bait heavy so it would travel much faster than us and we would film the falcon going past me on it's way to the bait well bellow us.

[agfosterjr]

I appreciate your sharing your experience. Here's what I propose. Make an exact measurement of the distance between your house and your neighbor's. Then get on the phone with him with a stop watch, have him indicate when a bird is straight up over his house, and clock the time it takes for the bird to get straight over your position. That's about as scientific an experiment as any, at least for the horizontal distance covered in low flight. Let us know what you find out. Thanks. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

its to hard u never know wen the next attack is coming or how its gonna happen it was just luck that day to see what we saw, every attack is different its not really something u can plan for, might take a yr or 2 to get the exact thing to happen that u need to measure it, but id love to be able to just to see the results.

[kokumaru]

Peregrine Falcon weigh 3-4x as much as similar sized birds & raptors like crows & the cooper's hawk.

They are built like arrows in level flight & take on an anchor shape when stooping.

Also, I've read that adults have extremly stiff feathers compared to juveniles & even adults of other birds. Peregrines Are also reported to have very tough dense muscle especially around the breast & other places for reserves of energy to increase speed in level flight or stooping...

[SECRETSTAR888]

all the science doesnt mean anything to me u think i believe what ever i see or hear but u couldnt be more wrong, ive got great observation and i race pigeons, ive see countless falcon attacks in my time ive got not a single doubt in my mind that a falcon can dive at 200mph. if you choose not to believe it thats up to you, to see a falcon at altitude dive into a flock of pigeons is incredible, ive seen a pigeon in vertical dives with a falcon on their arse even they could beat a freefaller.

[SECRETSTAR888]

even people that study falcons in the wild dont come close to seeing what pigeon racers see, a scientist can study their nests and what not but they rarely see a wild falcon in hunting mode pigeon fliers see em doing it all the time, u wont find 1 that will agree with you.even a falconer isnt seeing the real thing from a totaly wild falcon thats hunting to survive theyve never seen a hungry and determined falcon in action.

[agfosterjr]

Do you think you can accurately gauge the speed of an arrow or jet plane just by looking at it? Few arrows travel 200mph, and they are usually too fast to see. Jets easily fly twice that fast, but we have no idea how fast they are really going, because we don't know how far away or how big they are. A century ago a duck hawk was "measured" diving 200mph from a cathedral ledge, but even now there are only a few buildings in the world tall enough to allow such a speed--in a vacuum. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

i know u cant gauge speed but i know how fast a pigeon flies and i can compare that to what i see easily 3 times faster. ive got no doubt at all i know a falcon can do around that speed exactly how fast i cant say nobody can it would be different for every falcon but i know they can move around 3 times faster then a pigeon flies which puts it up around 180 to 200 mph.

[SECRETSTAR888]

1 of my mates was at my place 1 day my birds were circling up a few hundred ft and a falcon was circling next to them but they were the same height he couldnt do anything i told my mate to watch, theres a guy about 1/2mile up the rd that has a large flock they were circling the trees the falcon went for em, about a 45degree dive it did it in seconds my mate looked at me and just said fuck, he couldnt believe it, he had no interest in birds at all, but he was dumfounded.

[SECRETSTAR888]

sorry not 1/2 mile its about a 1/4 mile i know that because he races to and our exact locations are recorded, i can compare the distance his place is from a race point and compare my distance so i know exactly how far he lives from me, and im telling u honestly without lying or bullshitting the falcon covered the distance in a few seconds but because of its height it probably covered maybe 500 metres, thats the sort of observation im talking about no science involved at all,

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

Norman here, the reason the shot ends at 3:26 without the bird docking is that this is early stages of the project, at that time, Ken was holding the bait, this caused too much turbulence for the falcon to dock on it. Later he modified the concept to have a weighted bait that he did not hold on to to give "Frightful" the falcon a good chance with clean air

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

Don't have time for, you. If you want to believe it is fraud then to you it is fraud. Others see the accomplishment and beauty of this experiment with awesome results, you choose not to, nothing we can do there. Sorry. to all others, thanks for the awesome comments and for taking the time to see it for what it is. Perhaps some day you will have a chance to hear my talk and stories about this experience

[agfosterjr]

At 3:26 the bird appears to be closing in on the bait. Why does the shot end before the climax? Just asking. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

your an idiot uv got no idea how a falcon hunts, wat do u think its gonna do? it cant change its body position to grab the bait or he'll pull away from it, is gotta hit the bait at speed to be able to grab it and its not gonna do that and risk injury due to his size. wat u expect it to not only match his pace but level out in order to grab the bait from his hand and still keep up with him? idiot.

[agfosterjr]

Is it true that all the Aussies are walking up-side-down? It's a mystery sstar hasn't fallen off the edge of the earth. Why is it safer to crash into a bag of lead shot than a gloved hand? But sstar is proof of Kent's success--convincing a quarter of a million people that they've seen the real thing would look good on any special effects artist's resume. Now if Kent would put all his raw footage on public display, we could begin to take this as evidence worth looking at. Till then, no way. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

do u know what insticts are moron? a falcon isnt programmed to have a go at something as big as a human, a falcon dives in at a higher speed then its target levels out and grabs the target it cant do that without hitting him if hes holding the lure idiot, its got a split second to grab the target once it levels out because it loses its speed but its greater speed to start with allows it to level out and still grab the target.

[agfosterjr]

I suppose I should defer to your superior wisdom, but I can't help but think that there would be some way around these obstacles--big bodies and turbulence. Obviously the lure worked in spite of the fact that it's nothing like a bird, and is heavy and dangerous. I think a lure attached to a pole like fish bait would work just as well, would avoid the problem of turbulence, and at the same time would be better evidence of authenticity, since it would be difficult to fake the shot. --AGF

[agfosterjr]

And there's another thing--how much does the lure weigh? Better yet, at what speeds did the lures of different weights fall? Damn that would be useful data, but what we are getting is anything but useful data. Just idiot bait for suckers like sstar. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

the lead lure would weigh the same as the falcon or less otherwise it couldnt carry it, so as for being heavy and dangerous, crap its no different to its prey items,

[SECRETSTAR888]

mmmmm what speeds did different weighted lures fall? now that would be useful data, lmfao, those kinds of experiments were done along time ago dude i think u better do a bit of reading u might learn something hahaha

[agfosterjr]

Then tell me this: how fast will a paraboloid or ellipsoid of revolution of dimensions comparable to those of duck hawk fall? These experiments were also done long ago, and come nowhere close to 200mph. Why do you think the skepticism? --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

a falco sees a flock of pigeon circling the trees from a couple of miles away, goes into a dive builds maximum speed levels out and comes screeming in at roof top height using whatever cover is available for a sneak attack when it comes over its going so fast if u blink ul miss it, alot of the time ul hear it but wont even see it, all u know is a falcon just went thru your flock but hes gone already, and u know wat 90% of the time hes still not good enough to grab 1.

[SECRETSTAR888]

a bag of leadshot is about the same weight as the falcon dummy if the falcon crashes into it the bag moves easily so theres hardly any impact but something that weighs a 100 times the weight of the falcon might aswell be a brickwall, your a moron lol why havent i fallen of the planet? dont know maybe the same reason u dont know which is up or down.

[SECRETSTAR888]

notice how fast it comes in when the lure is infront of his face? way faster then hes going but when hes holding the lure it just cruises in a bit faster then hes going, theres no way its gonna come in at a 100 or so mph faster then him and try to grab it off him its instincts tell it not to but soon as he releases the lure wammo it pounces.

[SECRETSTAR888]

hmmmm tie it with fishing line? lol u wouldnt be able to see the line ud still say its fake, in the documentary i saw the lure was the exact weight of the falcon. they made it the same on purpose to see the results, the falcon still caught it easily thus proving it had less surface area and was more streamlined then the bag, why do u think they use lead?

[SECRETSTAR888]

u do realise these skydiving experiments are still fairly new dont u? i didnt read ur reply to good thought u ment fishing line, but im sure somebody will work out other ways eventually, gee it was only a few years back nobody even thought of diving with a falcon, give em time.

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

Norman here, the reason the shot ends at 3:26 without the bird docking is that this is early stages of the project, at that time, Ken was holding the bait, this caused too much turbulence for the falcon to dock on it. Later he modified the concept to have a weighted bait that he did not hold on to to give "Frightful" the falcon a good chance with clean air

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

By the way, the reason Ken was not looking at the bird or bait is because we waited for the bird to engage a second time as it missed on the first approach, by then, we were 18 seconds from impact and he was busy checking his altimeter, you bozo! Most birds do not have the need to go that fast to eat but it does not mean they are not capable, this one must perform as this is the only way it knows how to hunt

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

OK, enough of this, I am the shooter who made this footage, made more that 100 jumps with the bird and Ken Franklin and anyone who is accusing us of doctoring the footage is obviously jealous and has not seen the National Geographic documentary we made.

[agfosterjr]

So with this cinema art we have a dilemma: for nearly a century the falconers have claimed their bird could dive over 200mph, without a shred of evidence--all the evidence pointed to 70-85mph max. Now we have what purports to be the very first evidence for a 120mph+ stoop, and it comes to us in the form of clearly doctored art, and I say it's all the work of conartists. Here's why: 1)a 200mph stoop speed is useless for attack and nearly useless for approach; 2) no other falcon or other bird

[agfosterjr]

can do or is claimed to do half the speed of the superbird; 3)the claimed speeds defy all aerodynamic predictions--they are physically impossible; 4)no good scientific work has been done in this area--we have no bird density reports or speed observations at different wing sets--Franklin is exploiting a data vacuum for profit. So should we accept this cinema art as good scientific observation, even when no overt claims are made for authenticity? It does seem to show amazing things: the falcon

[agfosterjr]

dives down at catches bait right in front of Franklin and the photographer at a speed apparently in excess of 120mph, then appears to soar up relative to the camera. If this were authentic it would be the very first proof of such speed, so is it authentic? 1)All the evidence is coming from a small group of skydivers, none from scientists; 2)Superimposition is obvious at 22 seconds, where even the sound cuts out to restore wing-in-front perspective; 3)Franklin's credibility depends on the truth

[agfosterjr]

of his 180 and 240mph stoop claims--if these are far fetched, so is any claim of cinematic fidelity. 4)The bait grab shot is suspect for several reasons: a)it's highly coincidental for the bait, bird, diver, and photographer to converge for a shot; b)Franklin is oblivious to the bird; c)the camera switches from tracking Franlin to the bird effortlessly; d)the camera tracks the bird and even over-corrects with baffled smoothness. The apparently authentic angle on the bird is well done but not

[agfosterjr]

impossible to fake--maybe from a canopy or a moving car, coupled with reverse zooming. At any rate, that one seeming aspect of authenticity is hardly sufficient evidence to buy into the old "superbird myth," which is so discredited and disreputable in so many ways. So my previous estimation remains: good cinematic art, horrible science. The falconers will religiously take this footage as proof for their faith, and the fraud will make money, but will ultimately be thoroughly exposed. --AGF

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

OK, enough of this, I am the shooter who made this footage, made more that 100 jumps with the bird and Ken Franklin and anyone who is accusing us of doctoring the footage is obviously jealous and has not seen the National Geographic documentary we made.

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

By the way, the reason Ken was not looking at the bird or bait is because we waited for the bird to engage a second time as it missed on the first approach, by then, we were 18 seconds from impact and he was busy checking his altimeter, you bozo! Most birds do not have the need to go that fast to eat but it does not mean they are not capable, this one must perform as this is the only way it knows how to hunt

[agfosterjr]

Well Norman, I can believe you made 100 jumps, but that's about all. So tell me, how fast do you think the bird can dive, top speed? And do you claim no doctoring whatever? Even when the bird goes behind the wing? You've got one hell of a lot of explaining to do, and I won't take any of this seriously without a completely different approach--this is all akin to documenting ET kidnappings and haunted houses. The word of a 240mph claimer is worthless. Let's see some real evidence! --AGF

[HybridVW]

You must lead a pretty sad life with everyone taking advantage of you for you to act this way. I'm truly sorry for that, and assure you that there is no trickery in this film.

[agfosterjr]

Yup, I'm a voice crying in the wind: listen up everyone, we've got fraud, no science. The data in the hands of the moneymakers goes one way; the data from the scientists goes the other. Who should we believe? The profiteers, of course. Why would they lie? If there were any honest researchers working on this the method and results would be vastly different. How does a falcon dive at 240mph? By flickings its wings, of course. I dare you to get some skeptical scientists to work with you. --AGF

[HybridVW]

A MOVING CAR?!?!?!?! LMFAO!!! Seriously- I've been answering all of your questions logically, but you're a conspiracy theorist whackjob that doesn't understand what is happening in front of your face. I ask you what the Cd is of a falcon, and you come back with "what's the terminal velocity, and I'll tell you the Cd"- you DOLT, the whole debate is about what the terminal velocity ACTUALLY IS, and the answer is NO ONE KNOWS. And you accuse me of circular logic!

[NORMANKENTdotCOM]

Don't have time for, you. If you want to believe it is fraud then to you it is fraud. Others see the accomplishment and beauty of this experiment with awesome results, you choose not to, nothing we can do there. Sorry. to all others, thanks for the awesome comments and for taking the time to see it for what it is. Perhaps some day you will have a chance to hear my talk and stories about this experience

[kokumaru]

my god you're an imbecile

everyone can see it

[agfosterjr]

A falling bird must displace and return its volume of air with every body length traversed. Assume a max cross section of air, radius 5cm, displaced to a new cross section of equal area, radius 7cm. Assume then an effective average displacement of air of 2cm, air density of 1.3g/l STP, a bird of 1kg mass (=10 newtons), a density of .8 (=diving cormorant), an altitude of 10,000ft (.65 STP), and calculate for yourself how fast the bird can dive, ignoring lateral friction. What BS! --AGF

[agfosterjr]

Oops. Assume a body length of 30cm--a perfectly symmetrical and streamlined contour fore and aft. --AGF

[lucabonfi]

...la parte più bella del DVD !*****

[agfosterjr]

Si, quasi una fantasia. No, una fantasia perfecta! --AGF

[lucabonfi]

Vero...ma piacerebbe anche a me scendere in caduta libbera con un falco pellegrino che ti vola vicino...che soddisfazione proverei !

I rapaci sono animali bellissimi..

Quando ne vedo uno in aria mi fermo per guardarlo...

[HybridVW]

Norman, THANK YOU for posting this!!

AGF, you're right- this is UNBELIEVABLE footage, but you're WRONG about it being fake. Norman is a world renowned cinematographer, and Ken has been training falcons and skydiving with them for YEARS. If we were both in the same room and watching the same screen, I could explain what's going on to you, but it's impossible over the web. I feel sorry for you that you can't appreciate the possibilities that exist between between man and animals.

[agfosterjr]

Well Hybrid, why don't you just address the problems I raise, if you don't consider them insurmountable? How is it that the diver, the bait, and the bird all converge in the same shot, and that the diver, whose attention should be concentrated entirely on the bird, never seems to know where it is even when it flies right in front of him, with the bait there too? Could it be that they're looking to sell their cinemax movie? Maybe the Iranian missile photo wasn't doctored either. --AGF

[HybridVW]

1) It's relatively easy to get the bait to fall at the same rate as a skydiver- it's just density. 2) Why does Ken need to focus on the bird when he's obviously trained the bird and knows where the bird is going- for the bait. If anything, the bird should be worried about those other things in the sky that don't have feathers! 3) You'll notice that Ken is wearing an altimeter on his right hand- he's checking his altitude when the bird snatches the bait.

[agfosterjr]

OK, at 22 seconds when the bird flies behind the wing, if you look carefully you can freeze one frame which was obviously doctored after the sound track was added: the tip of the wing is displaced right in front of the falcon. This after five minutes of examination. And the pseudo-science involved: the falcon can stoop at 110mph with its wings spread! (I don't think that fits the stoop definition.) Again, these are basic laws of physics being routinely broken. Good pics, bad science. --AGF

[HybridVW]

I don't know what you're trying to say, but is it hard to understand that the bird could be flying behind, above, and to the left of the plane? Therefore putting the horizontal stabilizer and rudder between the cameraman and the bird? Where do you get 110mph from? The plane is CLEARLY flying as slow as possible (50-55mph, probably slower with some power) based on the position of all of the control surfaces. What's your background? It's certainly not skydiving or aviation related....

[agfosterjr]

Here's why the sound and picture cut out simultaneously when the bird flies behind the wing: the bird shot (with blue sky background) was pasted on to the airplane shot, so oddly appeared to fly in front of the wing. The editor noticed the problem after the sound track was added, then did a cheap fix, blurring the picture AND sound. The 110mph figure refers to the free fall--I was generous--if you prefer, then 120mph, which no bird has been clocked at even in stoop configuration--

[agfosterjr]

--but this bird is keeping up with the diver with wings spread--again, clearly superimposed, like all the good shots that combine the bird and plane or diver. Few if any small craft can fly 60mph at 10,000 feet--that altitude is near the edge of the flight envelope of most. As for bait density, what is it (lead shot?), and how is a two pound bundle of feathers supposed to keep up with a bag of lead? This is all hopelessly unscientific. Sorry, but you've been duped by the superbird myth. --AGF

[HybridVW]

You realize that if the bird were flying between the camerman and the HORIZONTAL STABILIZER of the airplane (@22sec.), that it would 1) be MUCH larger in the frame, and 2) would have to be flying ~4 feet away from the tail, IN THE PROPWASH- not a good place to be if you're a bird. For the bait, yes, often jumpers put shot in a tennis ball to use as a fixed target in freefall- more shot, faster ball. Certainly you're smart enough to see tha the bird is more aerodynamic than the bait, right?????

[agfosterjr]

Of course--that's the point I'm trying to make. The editor realized the superimposed image would be seen to be out of perspective. That's why he doctored it, and that's why the sound cuts out. And true, the bird is more streamlined than the bait, and even than the jumper--that's not the point. The real point is that the bird is not 100 times as streamlined as the jumper, and has no chance of keeping up with an object a hundred times as heavy. 85mph is the theoretical and observed limit. --AGF

[HybridVW]

So tell us, what's the coefficient of drag for a skydiver wearing a regular jumpsuit flying belly to earth, and what's the coefficient of drag of a falcon when it's diving? You never did answer my question about what your background is- do you have a PhD in Internet Expertology? I told you in my first post that it was pointless to try to educate you on here, and I was right. Go learn a little about aerodynamics, and maybe jump out of an airplane or two, THEN revisit this topic.

[agfosterjr]

There seems to be no end to your circular reasoning--you assume a priori that all is legit, and argue as a total believer. If it were possible for a falcon to extend a dive at freefall speed of 120mph with wings out, as it does later in the video, than I would accept your initial assumptions, but your assumptions are hopelessly naive. I don't give a damn what your credentials are--I only care about how logical and sharp sighted you are, and you are neither. You have yet to acknowledge, yet...

[agfosterjr]

...yet alone address the problem that the bird stoops 120mph with wings fully extended. You have yet to address the problem that Franklin and most others accept a stoop speed of over 200mph, yet never explain the attack strategy involved. Now I'll admit that the final shot could have been taken by a diver in freefall, that would explain the bird rising fast, but for you to ignore even the possibility of doctoring, when the evidence is obvious, is really a head in the sand reaction. As for the...

[agfosterjr]

As for the drag coefficient, you tell me how fast the object falls, what it weighs, what the altitude, temperature, and humidity are, and I'll tell you the drag coefficient. More circular reasoning--you observe the speed, and calculate the coefficient, not the other way around, at least, not the first time. Can you even tell me the density of a duck hawk at various hydraulic pressures? Vance Tucker, a believer who studied a frozen carcass in a wind tunnel, never measured the density of the bird.

[agfosterjr]

Such is the scientific acumen of the superbird mythmakers. He postulates a ridiculously low coefficient, makes calculations, but never proves anything. Scientists at Lund, Sweden, have been radar gunning the stoopers for years and have yet to see a bird break 90, but you have the gaul to ridicule the credentials of the first commentator who ever gave you the real skinny. Go ahead and be a dupe, I don't care-- I know better. I know BS when I see it, and you and Norman are full of it. --AGF

[HybridVW]

You know what's really stupid, is that NO WHERE in that video is the bird shown diving for an extended period with it's wings fully spread. You keep bringing that up for your argument, but it NEVER HAPPENS! It might open them for a split second to maneuver, but not for more than that. It's clear that you don't see what's going on and would rather believe radar tests done from the ground rather than an INSTRUMENTED bird with a LOT more altitude to work with. Talk about head in the sand....

[agfosterjr]

What the hell are you talking about? That stretch of 15 seconds or so, where Franklin is wiggling his fingers as though coaxing the bird to catch up--wings extended--OK, maybe 80%. You don't see that? Aren't we watching the same video? And you deny it's there? I give up. --AGF

[HybridVW]

At what point in the vid?

[agfosterjr]

I'll have to eat some crow here--the wings aren't fully extended, only partially--but enough to slow the bird below the stoop maximum. So the question becomes, how fast can the bird fall at that configuration? I would extimate 60-70mph. I'm only guessing, but the problem is, nobody has published any studies that I'm aware of that describe the dive speeds in different wing sets. Only stoops at different attack angles, and the shallower angles slow the birds down to about 70mph. This has been...

[agfosterjr]

done by radar. You think that is inferior to GPS but we have two problems there. One is that most of the GPS observers are liars, unless you are willing to accept stoop speeds of 242mph and higher. The other is that they're not very accurate yet. Divers who go for horizontal distance records are still frustrated by this inaccuracy. You may not be aware of Franklin's background, but he routinely provides video footage "documenting" the most outlandish versions of the superbird myth. See "High Vel

[agfosterjr]

See "High Velocity Falcon" for an example. As for the bait grab in front of the oblivious Franklin, notice further the smoothness of the shot on the bird--that is not a hand-held camera shot, but a telephoto shot with inertial stabilization. Notice in the slightly spread wing shot, that the bird's speed relative to the diver does not seem to affected by the wing fold. And consider working out the math in the formula I posted. I'm afraid the evidence is against the 99% belielver faction. --AGF

[HybridVW]

You work with too many (apparenly) incorrect assumptions and accept them as hard and fast "truth". Anything can be "proven" with flawed tests and math. Ken doesn't use GPS to measure the bird's speed- he uses a small data logging altimeter ON THE BIRD. Norman doesn't use "hand held cameras" in freefall either- they're mounted to his helmet. Pretty much everything you've stated as fact is indeed false. For some reason, you just don't want to accept that prior tests maybe didn't get the whole pic.

[agfosterjr]

So let me get this straight: Norman has 3 cameras mounted on his head (with different angles, I presume), keeps his aim not on the bird but on Franklin (who somehow is so cognizant of where the bird is he doesn't even blink), but when the bird does come into the picture, Norman reacts fast enough to change his focus to the bird without getting whiplash! I'll wait for independent scientific (not BBC) altimeter confirmation before I buy into this 240mph fairy tale--you do as you please. --AGF

[HybridVW]

Pretty much. For something like this, Norman might have 4 cameras on his helmet- 1 still, 1 vid, and two film (one shoting wide angle, the other shooting tighter, or one shooting regular speed and the other slow-mo). All of them aimed at the same spot and aligned with a ring sight so he has an idea of what to aim at. Check his website in the to right of this page. Don't forget, he can turn his body also to get the shot. This had nothing to do with the BBC, at least originally.

[SECRETSTAR888]

if u cant see whats going on in the end of that vid where its diving right next to him u truly are blind and stupid or u just dont wanna see it, watch the bird come into shot with wings pulled in it gets close to him the extends its wings to slow down, he gradually starts getting away from the bird it nearly dissappears out of the top of the pic then it pulls its wings in and starts to close the gap till it gets close again then it extends its wings again, its matching his pace ur a blind fool,

[agfosterjr]

The flat earth phoenix rises again. Have you ever heard of the "theoretical minimum drag coefficient"? Study up on it, quantify it as it relates to this problem, and get back to me. Till then, I'd rather not be bothered by your incoherent babblings. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

yea just ignore everything i just said and go on with ur own dribble trying to seem smart lol everybody u argue with thinks ur a dickhead.

[kokumaru]

no-you're trying to reason with a retard who blows spit bubbles to entertain himself...

[HybridVW]

It's been known for YEARS that Peregrine Falcons can dive at 120+mph- like since I was a kid. The bird uses it's wings to control it's speed- if it were diving at 120+mph, it could spread it's wings some and NOT suddenly stop in the air. Simple aerodynamics & momentum. So how do you explain the extended footage of this bird in a dive with and without the camera angle changing? There had to be a camera in freefall with it at some point, right? How was this camera aimed, if not by a skydiver?

[agfosterjr]

Finally some reasonable questions. No, there has never been evidence of 120mph stoop speeds; just legends (and remember, Franklin claims double that). As for the shot angle, you will note that in the slow motion shot, just after the bird gets the bait the picture cuts out and comes in again. This is probably due to a telescopic view reverting to an open parachute shot (superimposed in sequence over a shot of Franklin taken by a fellow diver). If it were possible for a duck hawk to stoop at...

[agfosterjr]

240mph with its wings in, then I suppose it would be possible to dive at 120mph with wings extended, but neither is possible, and the superbird theory makes no attempt to reconcile these super feats with known physics, or to explain the attack strategy involved: does the bird survive a 200mph attack or does it first decelerate, losing its super speed advantage? It's one thing to provide doctored footage showing a fast bird--another to examine its real behavior in action. --AGF

[HybridVW]

So in ONE slo-mo shot, you think they went from freefall footage to footage shot from under canopy?!?! LOL! Norman is wearing multiple cameras, once shooting close up, one shooting wide angle- THAT'S what the cut is! The bird is pulling out of the dive, cutting a vertical arc, bleeding speed and slowly extending it's wings. If that shot was taken from under canopy, Ken wouldn't stay in frame, nor would the bird be going "up" relative to the camera at it's angle of attack realtive to the horizon!

[agfosterjr]

It wouldn't matter if the video were in slow motion: it is the bird's position relative to the jumper that matters. And if the bird is horizontal while the jumper is freefalling, you know something is fishy, and you know that Franklin will stop at nothing to keep his superbird aloft. You're a challenge, sstar, but if I can convince you I can convince anyone. What you have is a flyer coming out of a dive staying in the picture with another flyer who continues the dive. Hardly possible. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

when that falcon swoops down and grabs the lure infront of his face is the best bit of footage ever captured i think, pure speed and ability, awesome, great vid.

[agfosterjr]

The superimposition is obvious to the trained eye. Consider: 1) At no time, even when the bird flies right in front of the baiter's face, does the bird get his attention. 2) For much of the time when the bird stays with the baiter, it has its wings spread, as though it could stoop in such a configuration at 120mph. 3) When the bird extends its wings going out of a stoop it doesn't change its velocity relative to the jumper. All clear evidence that you've been duped once again. Sorry. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

wow how did i know you'd say its fake,idiot.when it stays with him at the end of the vid its quiet obvious its slowing itself down to keep pase with him, your wrong but cant face facts, u wanted footage and there it is, get over it clown.

[agfosterjr]

4) The bird and the bait and the jumper all converge in a single shot--what a happy coincidence! The bait falling at the same speed as the jumper! Why not just hold the bait? Most people don't catch these things, but most recognize it when they're pointed out. Only the slowest of the slow DON'T recognize the fraud when it's pointed out. So, sstar, do you see or do you not that the bird has its wing out in much of the tandem with the jumper? And you believe that's possible? Hopeless. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

yea it probably took em 50 goes to get those shots, i knew ud say they were fake right from the start u wanted to see video but u would say the same thing no matter what the footage was, i mean u cant addmitt ur a dickhead can u?

[SECRETSTAR888]

what do u want the bird to fly up and land on his shoulder at 120mph? lol

[agfosterjr]

It's as easy to do that as to fall at 120mph with wings spread, but that just doesn't register on your feeble brain. What the bird is depicted to be doing is something that even the fanatics don't claim: super stoop with wings extended. Why don't you take a ride on the back of a motorcycle, and hold open a small plastic shopping bag over your head. Find out at what speed the bag seems to be pulling more than a kilo or two pounds. That's about how fast the bird can fall with wings out. --AGF

[SECRETSTAR888]

your underestimating how much that footage is slowed down its opening out its wings to manourvure at the last second but to u its got its wings out the whole time but it hasnt, its only at the last moment to steer to the lure, only at the end its got its wings out because its doing it to match his speed.