This is why Sony/BMG's "The Essential" series are so great. They remaster the songs, making the sound crystal clear, but they never go over-the-top (literally) with the loudness. You may not always agree with the artists' song selections, but the sound is always perfect. Simply perfect.
@JLLproductions Some of the frequencies seem louder because it's not compressed. IE, the sounds that are supposed to be quiet ARE quiet and make the sounds that are supposed to be loud sound louder in comparison.
Heard this on the radio the other day and it really amazed me how weak this song is in retrospect. Strange that something like this became such a phenomenon. No accounting for mass taste, I guess.
i'm willing to stand corrected however - i'm listening to the second take of the song, and it sounded (tho punchier) way louder than the first. I then looked at my audio interface sitting on my desk and true enough it was recording almost 9dB difference in the peaks.
shouldn't you compare apples to apples by leaving them both on the same max peaks and then show what compression and mastering does to a track?
I know mastering engineers are forced to crucify songs for radio, but then again, this would never make it to the radio today. Radio is only pop now. Rock is dead.
@theinck if you say you say rock is dead you're just not looking very far for it, mainstream music is mostly pop, but something doesnt have to be popular to be good
I can see a few problems with the comparison already. First it's more of an analog styled limiter instead of an intelligent styled digital limiter. The sound is being rather harshly squashed in a psycho-acoustic manner. Next, the approach of mixing engineers have changed equally over the years. You would've had a different mix if it were done today resulting in better material for today's style of mastering. Not that Butch Vig did a bad job, it's just a different approach now.
Moral of the story: head to a used CD store and find an older copy instead of a new and remastered one. Better yet, check Ebay for the vinyl release. That will be the best sounding yet.
So? 100% of music that comes out today is pure shit, you can listen to shit on HQ headphones, or you can listen it to shitty ipod headphones, IT'S STILL SHIT.
compression, the most overused and overabused aspect of recording in home studios and makeshift studios around the world. trust me guys if you put on a good pair of sennheisers or boses or audio technicas even, you'll be glad you didn't compress the shit out of every single track.
Over time, I just thought music sucked more. Granted, there's Beiber, but now that I think about it, I think it has more to do with the dynamic range compression. I wonder what the latest release of GnR Use Your Illusion sounds like now? It had a lot of changes in volume, and that is partly what made those albums great. Leave it up to recording industry execs to completely screw up anything they can get their hands on. And they wonder why the entire world hates them?
It would never sound "exactly" like the first example if released today[12/12/2011],BUT,Listen to lots of radio and it [first example] is a good [though exagerated] example of WHERE the dynamics of ROCK are heading.At the time Kurt thought Andy Wallaces,"sheen" made it sound like a Motley Record[hardly] but I wouldn't be surprised if the first example is closer to the sound, if indeed it was released today.
I think this example is perfect,so many many many people[ipod ear bud's],would have ZERO idea the first example is crap if you NEVER showed the second.GOOD JOB!!
You forgot to add makeup gain after compressing the mix. If you wanted to know what Smells Like Teen Spirit would sound like if released today, listen to Wasting Light by the Foo Fighters. It was mastered by Emily Lazar, who is currently Butch Vig's favorite mastering engineer. I think that album sounds amazing myself.
YOU ALL EAT DICKS, GET THE COCKS OUT OF YOUR HANDS AND TURN THE MONITORS UP!!!, THE FIRST MIX SOUNDS 2 DB LOWER THAN THE SECOND ONE. THIS DUDES DECRIPTION IS ASS BACKWARDS
@Brentkravitz The second mix sounds "brighter" maybe? Perhaps because you can actually hear the changes in volume, instead of just a muddled mess? Perhaps you should get the dicks out of your ears?
yeah this is pretty dumb. music is definitely over compressed now but people still know how to master. it's not like you can just go 'whoop, limiter on, ready for radio'.
This is pretty irrelevant, mixing goals are different nowadays compared to back then. Slapping a brickwall limiter is not the same as the song being released today. There are so many settings on a limiter that can make it sound better than this as well. What was the attack/release/ratio at least? Are you a world-class mastering engineer or something?
Damn, that's pretty interesting. I think about this a lot, we're losing out on quality in all kinds of ways. Processed food, compressed file formats, fluorescent light, cheap nasty sounding digital synthesizers with fake filters, interfaces that you can't really touch. It's a race to the bottom and the Loudness Wars are just one facet of a much bigger problem.
You can't just put a brickwall limiter on the mix and say that's what it'd sound like today. The drums in the 90s release are much louder, and would be even LOUDER today for a remaster. By throwing the limiter on the mix you brought the bass and guitars up because you pushed the drums down and brought the quieter sounds up. A modern master would be "louder", but wouldn't sound like this.
@dameonxz No I just have ears. There is music out there that has been mastered very loud without clipping and distortion, I deal with that in my Radiohead video.
@ajuk1 mastering engineers usually don't use brickwall limiters, they use soft knee compression and - very important - multiband compressors. If nevermind was released in 2012 it would definitley not sound like this.
@AgentHomer Lost dynamics is lost dynamics, how undistorted you can make it or not actually doesn't matter.But it's a crying shame, the old Manowar albums were recorded with huge dynamics and I you put in a new one, everything feels like a soundwall with little punch in comparison.
@FoxGhost7 I wasn't even talking about that. Multiband compressors BTW aren't even necessarily used to reduce dynamics, though they can be, but that would be a bit stupid, since you might as well use regular compressors. They are used to even out frequency bands, in absolute volume as well as in dynamics. Believe me, to much dynamics in the treble frequencies will just hurt your ears, same goes for the subbass.
@FoxGhost7 of course it can be cool to have a really subbass heavy part and then a really light one, but you can still have that with a multiband compressor, since you can use it only to reduce subbass when it gets out of hand. Or you can use automation, which lets you be in total control of the subbass. Same goes for having parts wich are very bright and parts that are more muffled in sound.
@FoxGhost7 but uncontrolled dynamics in those regions just sound awful. You can use multiband compressor as a "de-popper" and a "de-esser" combined, just not for vocals (though you can do those, too) but for a mix. Similarily, you might use it for other frequency bands, too, mainly if the arrangement, the musicans or the mixer caused some problems in the mids of a song.
@FoxGhost7 similarily, there are instances where you really have to use a compressor, or a limiter on a mix. lost dynamics are not always a bad thing! I don't know about manowar, since I would never subject myself to one of their records, but I have a couple records, on which the mastering engineer should have used some compression.
@FoxGhost7 annoying peaks, too strong transients, uncontrolled dynamics, soft parts that are too quiet, not enough "density" or too inconsistent volumes, songs that make you wanna turn up and down your volume, because at one part, the song is too quiet, and then it becomes way too loud in a matter of seconds, all can be a reason too use a limiter/compressor. And remember: you can use a compressor to soften transients, you can leave them unaffected and you can even make them more pronounced.
@ajuk1 you dont seem to have any valid points. An engineer can master a track any way he likes. Kurt went into the studio with bubblegum pop songs and asked the engineer to make it sound as grimey as possible. besides that, if you're not experienced you shouldnt be "remastering" tracks and saying thats how it would be today. its all about the person mastering. if YOU remastered it, and released it today, (which you did) then yes, lol it wouldnt be the same.
A brickwall limiter sounds terrible by itself. No wonder it sounds bad. It you know what your doing you should be able to master something and still retain the clarity and punch of the quieter, unmastered version. In fact, it actually helps sometimes.. This is like the compression a radio station would apply. You are doing exactly what a radio station would have done. A mastering engineer would have made it louder but in the most transparent manner. Learn.
@limit6 Actually the drums wouldn't be louder and couldn't be louder today. The drums in the 1991 version of the song almost hit the peak wall as it is. The video shows exactly what would happen to the song because clipping cuts off the louder bits which happen to be the drums.
@limit6 but that's what's happening. the studio raises the volume on everything, but the parts that are already really loud have a limit on how loud they can get, and the volumes of loud and soft gets equalized. We then turn it down, because it's so loud, and lose the effect of any dynamic contrast.
@limit6 what do you mean release is "louder"? releases aren't controlled by loud or soft, they're controlled by fast and slow. the 90s release is louder? what does that even mean? a faster release would technically compress the drums less therefore making it louder, but in the end, the gain of a compressor is controlled by the makeup gain control, not the release. but the point the video was trying to make was that todays music has no dynamics anymore and i think it was delivered well
@limit6 Ever heard about the Nirvana Nevermind 20th anniversary edition? It sounds like CRAP compared to the original CD releasing / original LP pressing release
So the dynamics are a little different. Being a quiet and being loud have nothing to do with it. I could blaaassttt a soft song and make it louder than a heavy song on lower volume. It just has to do with time, place, preference.
You idiots the so called "Released today" track he played was Butch Vig's Mix of SLTS featured on the "With The Lights Out" boxed set and th 20th anniversary boxed set
Hillarious that the song pretty much universally panned to be the opening shot in the loudness war, should be held up in a potential victimhood of the situation it created
Hillarious that the song pretty much universally panned to be the opening shot in the loudness war, should be held up in a potential victimhood of the situation it created
It seems that just recently, the Loudness War hit Nevermind on it's 20th anniversary. Just compare original and remasters of "Breed." The remaster sounds awfully compressed.
I'm sticking with my original 1991 CD release, thank you very much.
h t t p : / / w w w . y o u t u b e . c o m / w a t c h ? v = i O u Z h 8 1 F w 8 c Te equivocaste. Y se puede hacer una grabación con los sonidos perfectamente compenetrados a buen volumen sin distorsión (aunque en el mastering algunos discos si distorcionan, eso es diferente) no significa que cualquier cancnión distorciona si está bien comprimida y limitada. son distintos tipos de producción, se puede lograr un sonido más "¡explosivo!" si se lo desea...
@ashiv28 I'm listening to it on spotify to see whether it's strongly compressed or not. I don't think it's as dynamic as the second but certainly heaps better than the first
And not to hog, but I also hear you about the loudness problem caused by radio broadcast of modern recordings. Having heard both a broadcast & a Mini-Disc bootleg (Yes, I use Mini-Discs also! Best of CD & cassette convenience combined, I find.) of a streamed version of Miley Cyrus' "Party In the U.S.A. (Don't judge me!) I found the broadcast version to have a intolerably awful "booming" to it, along with the same flaws to it as I've pointed-out in my last comment. Such "progress" is a back-step!
You don't need to tell me twice about this epidemic... I've got an original of Samantha Fox's "I Wanna Have Some Fun" album on CD (I call any grouping of songs released together on 1-or-more pieces of media "albums") and copied one track onto cassette (Yes, cassette! And good high-bias Maxell at-that!) from an on-line MP3 source. Result? HUGE DIFFERENCES! The "masking" MP3s use to compress the track hid some passages & cause "bursts" of wow on others, making it uncomfortable to listen to.
This is about to become reality. A "remastered" version is coming out Sept 27th. Then a 4-CD collector's version in late October. Be interesting to hear it since the album already sounded perfect.
@Wizard66 I think they'll just finish remastering the remaining tracks of nevermind, some of them like teen spirit, in bloom and lithium were already remastered for the self titled album (the greatest hits disk with "you know you're right"). To me it sounded perfect.
I can remember the first time I heard this song. That fill on the drums the dave does at the beginning of the song just blew my fucking mind. You just don't get that same effect from any song nowadays with these producers fucking up the sound. Damn shame....
i guess you overdid the compressor in order to make a point. other than that great video. our bassist which did the mastering for us hates the loudness war and after hearing the final result i'm glad he does
kinda reminds me of what Iggy did for his mix of the Stooges album Raw Power, basically turned it all up in to the red, cliped the wave, and distorted the sound, whilst the previous Bowie mix was mixed too low, still waiting for a decent mix of that album
I will burn this on CD so I can hear the differences more clearly but I can tell a bit already on this el cheapo dell 960 internal speaker LOL!!
I bet you can guess the race of the persons who like killing sound quality.
I bet a future rebuttal of Hollywood editor resellers has the right to do with the reselling of music and distortion on the customers ears is pure hogwash.
If any of you sound studio employees or contractors who read this...SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!
@inachu the moment you said, "I bet you can guess the race of the persons who like killing sound quality." The remainder of your opinion went flatline. Sad...
When I'm recording music, I tend to reduce rediculous peaks. Say at one point in the song there is a peak 6dB louder than the others, I preview it to see if it's supposed to be there or if it's just static.. I might reduce snare peaks to equal height, but never reduce them to the height of the guitar part if they were meant to be louder.
wow - difference is like night & day! great video - and yes the loudness war is a great shame against music lovers, shame on all the engineers who can't see this
well that's not really a good example for two reasons..
1. your generically overcompressing something that has already been mastered.
2. All the example did was brick wall it and push it, I'm sure I could do the same example and make it not sound like poop with a little love and care.
In the end the artist's choice is basically this: do they want a song that people will want to turn down, or turn up? To me, the loudness wars have the opposite effect. I turn every modern song right down, because the average loudness is higher, and I have to use 5-10% volume if I want to listen longer than 10 minutes (which I don't, really). Play some song from the early 90's with 10+ dB of dynamic range and you just wanna turn that right up to 100%, because it actually sounds like music.
wow stumbling across these loudness wars cd's today have really made me changed my mind about buying remastered versions. ive always thought they've sounded a bit off never knew how much mixers screwed them up these days damn
Well to my ears listening to the tape in 91 vs the cd a few years later, I went from enjoying the tape to actually selling the cd and wishing I still had my tape. The same could be said with Bleach, both records sounded like something made by Black Sabbath in the 70's vs. just sounding loud and distorted, the tape had warmth whereas the digital had a kind of jarring effect to my ears, it was a tiring experience rather than a energizing one.
0:17 you can clearly see that waves are being cut and that's BAD mastering!!! 0:41 you can see a lot of peaks, if that line represents 0db, it means everything over the top will be cut and that's bad mastering too, going to sound the same. You need to cut those peaks without loosing quality and without distortion. Every track need's mastering, even the original "Smells like teen spirit" is mastered by pros.
There is a slight difference that I couldn't recognize immediately. In fact, I had to really, really try hard to notice a slight equalizer change. That's it. They both sound good.
I actually enjoyed your remix. Before the "connoisseurs of Grunge" jump my ass, I have to say this:
Cobain once said that he preferred amps from pawn shops, and often played with second or third-rate equipment on purpose. "Our sound changes every club we play."
He was also known to plug his guitar directly into the board during album recording, which caused the sound engineers to scream at him more than once.
I HATE modern music. But some things can be tweaked.
what a load of crap. Music is music, whether it sound louder or not it does not fucking matter. why is everyone whining like schoolgirls? smells like teen spirit is a simple yet cool song. and if it sounds 'raw' in the record than go listen to Celine Dion.
@HaBenOni The sound quality suffers because of how producers try to make their songs louder. The don't just amplify it, they use compressors to get the maximum volume at all times, eliminating dynamic contrast.
From what I see in the video (this could be totally wrong) you've simply clipped the signal. To improve loudness, producers use compressors which limit volume in a softer way than clipping.
This all goes back to modernization of the computer doing music. When is the last time you saw an artist actually write a real album that is not with the use of ANYTHING on a computer? In the 70's bands practiced songs recording to the point they memorized it, and it sounded perfect live. Now everything is looped and done on the computer. That is the real down fall of music. Even rap artists just "sample" older songs and loop a shitty instrumental into it. The loudness war is a casualty of this
-Computers don't write music, people do. Even if a computer is used with the production, it is still a person's work.
- In the 70's, people were using compressors, synthesisers, triggers, drum machines, audio effects, beat-mapping to an extent. They looped, cut and sampled. The only difference is they used tape and it was done by hand.
- There have always been bands that play good and bad live.
- Rap has always sucked.
- The loudness war is entirely unrelated to computers.
@LivinWorstNightmare Sorry I don't see what you're saying. Compressors have existed long before computers were used to any extent in music. How are the two related?
cannot recreate tha soul man
Y3ar0neUnd3gr0und 21 hours ago
OMG :O
opium070 1 day ago
You want real loudness? turn the record up AFTER it's already recorded pressed, shipped, and sold. This wimpy, distorted shit sucks.
damnbacon88 3 days ago
my friend.. you have NO skills on remastering stuff
kiwi8a 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is why Sony/BMG's "The Essential" series are so great. They remaster the songs, making the sound crystal clear, but they never go over-the-top (literally) with the loudness. You may not always agree with the artists' song selections, but the sound is always perfect. Simply perfect.
ThrowntoReality 6 days ago
Comment removed
ThrowntoReality 6 days ago
and you know what...I still and will, forever and ever love the original one. :)
MrNikhil1912 1 week ago
FUCK LOUDNESS WAR. LET REAL SOUND!!
Pippomone 1 week ago
why dont you go out and fuck a girl instead of making this video.... I wouldnt, Id make this video
therobba321 1 week ago
the 2011 remaster sound very compressed is sadness because they kill a masterpiece and sell crap
pasteldechocloxxxxxx 1 week ago
you made the original louder, of course it sounds better that way!
abigor731 1 week ago
omg smells like crap xD
g0rky88 1 week ago
thanks.. i learnt some new things..
PrinceWindz 1 week ago
i don't get it though, the second one sounds louder :s
JLLproductions 2 weeks ago
@JLLproductions Some of the frequencies seem louder because it's not compressed. IE, the sounds that are supposed to be quiet ARE quiet and make the sounds that are supposed to be loud sound louder in comparison.
vash1053 1 week ago
Heard this on the radio the other day and it really amazed me how weak this song is in retrospect. Strange that something like this became such a phenomenon. No accounting for mass taste, I guess.
misterbilbotbaggins 2 weeks ago
the original is far better... for various reasons!
drumatic 2 weeks ago
@ajuk1,
i'm willing to stand corrected however - i'm listening to the second take of the song, and it sounded (tho punchier) way louder than the first. I then looked at my audio interface sitting on my desk and true enough it was recording almost 9dB difference in the peaks.
shouldn't you compare apples to apples by leaving them both on the same max peaks and then show what compression and mastering does to a track?
miragedone 2 weeks ago
Learn to spell.
Rene2D2 2 weeks ago
Video should change to:
"What the remasters of Nevermind sound like."
combinownage 2 weeks ago
I know mastering engineers are forced to crucify songs for radio, but then again, this would never make it to the radio today. Radio is only pop now. Rock is dead.
theinck 2 weeks ago
@theinck if you say you say rock is dead you're just not looking very far for it, mainstream music is mostly pop, but something doesnt have to be popular to be good
JoRdOguitarman1 2 weeks ago
The 90's mix has balls.
tmbasser 2 weeks ago
I can see a few problems with the comparison already. First it's more of an analog styled limiter instead of an intelligent styled digital limiter. The sound is being rather harshly squashed in a psycho-acoustic manner. Next, the approach of mixing engineers have changed equally over the years. You would've had a different mix if it were done today resulting in better material for today's style of mastering. Not that Butch Vig did a bad job, it's just a different approach now.
byouno93 2 weeks ago
Nerd fight!
TheNightmareSequence 2 weeks ago
Moral of the story: head to a used CD store and find an older copy instead of a new and remastered one. Better yet, check Ebay for the vinyl release. That will be the best sounding yet.
Rick081677 3 weeks ago
Pretty sure the remaster is even more distorted.
777jordan 3 weeks ago
So? 100% of music that comes out today is pure shit, you can listen to shit on HQ headphones, or you can listen it to shitty ipod headphones, IT'S STILL SHIT.
joelibermann 1 month ago
still sounds shit....
GlamMetalDude 1 month ago
compression, the most overused and overabused aspect of recording in home studios and makeshift studios around the world. trust me guys if you put on a good pair of sennheisers or boses or audio technicas even, you'll be glad you didn't compress the shit out of every single track.
hockeyyismylife 1 month ago
Do you have a full version?
TDXYZ99 1 month ago
where is the drums in the remaster?
MrDemilord 1 month ago
there is hardly any difference.. -_-
chitucoolass 1 month ago
OZONE has the best plug in suite called rx2
killldaNWO 1 month ago
how did cleaning vinyl records lead me here?
TheRHCPdude 1 month ago 7
They did this on the 20th anniversary version!! It ruined it the drums just sound bland!
TheLol509 1 month ago
LOL no the seccond one is way too non popy
JeffWatersRules 1 month ago
Over time, I just thought music sucked more. Granted, there's Beiber, but now that I think about it, I think it has more to do with the dynamic range compression. I wonder what the latest release of GnR Use Your Illusion sounds like now? It had a lot of changes in volume, and that is partly what made those albums great. Leave it up to recording industry execs to completely screw up anything they can get their hands on. And they wonder why the entire world hates them?
Lithanus00 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ajuk1
You forgot the autotune
trugangsta4real 1 month ago
i used to remaster tracks before i took a arrow to the knee
upwiththewolves 1 month ago
This is no where near a good representation
TylerB67345 1 month ago
Doesn't sound bad at all, and I do dislike over-compressed mixes (RHCP's Californication, AIC Black Give Way to Blue, etc)
Dexterprog 1 month ago
HEY, THAT'S WHAT THEY DID ON THE REISSUE ON PEARL JAM TEN, SO YOU'RE RIGHT.
petefaders 1 month ago
It would never sound "exactly" like the first example if released today[12/12/2011],BUT,Listen to lots of radio and it [first example] is a good [though exagerated] example of WHERE the dynamics of ROCK are heading.At the time Kurt thought Andy Wallaces,"sheen" made it sound like a Motley Record[hardly] but I wouldn't be surprised if the first example is closer to the sound, if indeed it was released today.
rksguit 1 month ago
I think this example is perfect,so many many many people[ipod ear bud's],would have ZERO idea the first example is crap if you NEVER showed the second.GOOD JOB!!
rksguit 1 month ago
You forgot to add makeup gain after compressing the mix. If you wanted to know what Smells Like Teen Spirit would sound like if released today, listen to Wasting Light by the Foo Fighters. It was mastered by Emily Lazar, who is currently Butch Vig's favorite mastering engineer. I think that album sounds amazing myself.
jfts09 1 month ago
YOU ALL EAT DICKS, GET THE COCKS OUT OF YOUR HANDS AND TURN THE MONITORS UP!!!, THE FIRST MIX SOUNDS 2 DB LOWER THAN THE SECOND ONE. THIS DUDES DECRIPTION IS ASS BACKWARDS
Brentkravitz 1 month ago
@Brentkravitz The second mix sounds "brighter" maybe? Perhaps because you can actually hear the changes in volume, instead of just a muddled mess? Perhaps you should get the dicks out of your ears?
Lithanus00 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ajuk1 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice video.
Professional Mixing and Mastering at CrystalMixing
CrystalMixing 1 month ago
haha you wanna hear some really compressed garbage? ...miley cirus...
tyrantsfaceisred 1 month ago
yeah this is pretty dumb. music is definitely over compressed now but people still know how to master. it's not like you can just go 'whoop, limiter on, ready for radio'.
canguroscar 1 month ago
This is pretty irrelevant, mixing goals are different nowadays compared to back then. Slapping a brickwall limiter is not the same as the song being released today. There are so many settings on a limiter that can make it sound better than this as well. What was the attack/release/ratio at least? Are you a world-class mastering engineer or something?
supplebiscuit 1 month ago
A novice will learn by trial and error.Looks like you will need a lifetime :-0.Do you want me to remix it for you?
Brenjewell 2 months ago
loudness war is FOR "ignorance " PEOPLE. turn the f*****n' knob UP!!!! VINYL RULE
sardhouse76 2 months ago
louder is Better
ipiximeat 2 months ago
Comment removed
nightcrawler511 2 months ago
the drums are great in this song and the modern version makes them sound terribile.
Lordmandeep 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Damn, that's pretty interesting. I think about this a lot, we're losing out on quality in all kinds of ways. Processed food, compressed file formats, fluorescent light, cheap nasty sounding digital synthesizers with fake filters, interfaces that you can't really touch. It's a race to the bottom and the Loudness Wars are just one facet of a much bigger problem.
thermalmaximum 2 months ago
Comment removed
thermalmaximum 2 months ago
You can't just put a brickwall limiter on the mix and say that's what it'd sound like today. The drums in the 90s release are much louder, and would be even LOUDER today for a remaster. By throwing the limiter on the mix you brought the bass and guitars up because you pushed the drums down and brought the quieter sounds up. A modern master would be "louder", but wouldn't sound like this.
limit6 2 months ago 40
@limit6 You can't cheat the system, you can't make the quieter bits louder without effectively making the louder bits quieter.
ajuk1 2 months ago 23
@ajuk1 so true
kawikatube 1 month ago
@ajuk1 AND I THREW IT ON THE GROUND!
KnightmareDub 1 month ago
@ajuk1 actually you can, but the parts that used to be louder wouldn't be perceived as loud. What I mean is that your concept is wrong.
Dexterprog 1 month ago
@ajuk1 clearly you're a mastering engineer.
dameonxz 1 month ago 24
@dameonxz No I just have ears. There is music out there that has been mastered very loud without clipping and distortion, I deal with that in my Radiohead video.
ajuk1 1 month ago 2
@ajuk1 Yeah and you'll notice that not a single recorded Radiohead song has any sort of dynamic range. Brickwall mastering is fucked... end of story.
Flurry911 1 month ago
@ajuk1 mastering engineers usually don't use brickwall limiters, they use soft knee compression and - very important - multiband compressors. If nevermind was released in 2012 it would definitley not sound like this.
AgentHomer 1 month ago
@AgentHomer Lost dynamics is lost dynamics, how undistorted you can make it or not actually doesn't matter.But it's a crying shame, the old Manowar albums were recorded with huge dynamics and I you put in a new one, everything feels like a soundwall with little punch in comparison.
FoxGhost7 2 weeks ago
@FoxGhost7 I wasn't even talking about that. Multiband compressors BTW aren't even necessarily used to reduce dynamics, though they can be, but that would be a bit stupid, since you might as well use regular compressors. They are used to even out frequency bands, in absolute volume as well as in dynamics. Believe me, to much dynamics in the treble frequencies will just hurt your ears, same goes for the subbass.
AgentHomer 2 weeks ago
@FoxGhost7 of course it can be cool to have a really subbass heavy part and then a really light one, but you can still have that with a multiband compressor, since you can use it only to reduce subbass when it gets out of hand. Or you can use automation, which lets you be in total control of the subbass. Same goes for having parts wich are very bright and parts that are more muffled in sound.
AgentHomer 2 weeks ago
@FoxGhost7 but uncontrolled dynamics in those regions just sound awful. You can use multiband compressor as a "de-popper" and a "de-esser" combined, just not for vocals (though you can do those, too) but for a mix. Similarily, you might use it for other frequency bands, too, mainly if the arrangement, the musicans or the mixer caused some problems in the mids of a song.
AgentHomer 2 weeks ago
@FoxGhost7 similarily, there are instances where you really have to use a compressor, or a limiter on a mix. lost dynamics are not always a bad thing! I don't know about manowar, since I would never subject myself to one of their records, but I have a couple records, on which the mastering engineer should have used some compression.
AgentHomer 2 weeks ago
@FoxGhost7 annoying peaks, too strong transients, uncontrolled dynamics, soft parts that are too quiet, not enough "density" or too inconsistent volumes, songs that make you wanna turn up and down your volume, because at one part, the song is too quiet, and then it becomes way too loud in a matter of seconds, all can be a reason too use a limiter/compressor. And remember: you can use a compressor to soften transients, you can leave them unaffected and you can even make them more pronounced.
AgentHomer 2 weeks ago
@ajuk1 you dont seem to have any valid points. An engineer can master a track any way he likes. Kurt went into the studio with bubblegum pop songs and asked the engineer to make it sound as grimey as possible. besides that, if you're not experienced you shouldnt be "remastering" tracks and saying thats how it would be today. its all about the person mastering. if YOU remastered it, and released it today, (which you did) then yes, lol it wouldnt be the same.
djFullMotion 2 weeks ago
@ajuk1 I have to agree with @limit6
A brickwall limiter sounds terrible by itself. No wonder it sounds bad. It you know what your doing you should be able to master something and still retain the clarity and punch of the quieter, unmastered version. In fact, it actually helps sometimes.. This is like the compression a radio station would apply. You are doing exactly what a radio station would have done. A mastering engineer would have made it louder but in the most transparent manner. Learn.
TheStompbox 1 week ago
@ajuk1 Yes you certainly can by compressing/limiting only certain frequency bands.
robkosinski 2 weeks ago
@ajuk1 Exactly!
thats why you put your kickdrums alittle bit punchier before you send it to mastering :)
DjFrankPhilip 2 weeks ago
@limit6 Actually the drums wouldn't be louder and couldn't be louder today. The drums in the 1991 version of the song almost hit the peak wall as it is. The video shows exactly what would happen to the song because clipping cuts off the louder bits which happen to be the drums.
five5x 2 months ago
@limit6 but that's what's happening. the studio raises the volume on everything, but the parts that are already really loud have a limit on how loud they can get, and the volumes of loud and soft gets equalized. We then turn it down, because it's so loud, and lose the effect of any dynamic contrast.
chrismuscaroler 2 months ago
Comment removed
stratsforlyfe 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@limit6 what do you mean release is "louder"? releases aren't controlled by loud or soft, they're controlled by fast and slow. the 90s release is louder? what does that even mean? a faster release would technically compress the drums less therefore making it louder, but in the end, the gain of a compressor is controlled by the makeup gain control, not the release. but the point the video was trying to make was that todays music has no dynamics anymore and i think it was delivered well
stratsforlyfe 2 months ago
@limit6 Ever heard about the Nirvana Nevermind 20th anniversary edition? It sounds like CRAP compared to the original CD releasing / original LP pressing release
zeromant80 3 weeks ago
not volume, the quality is what matters
BMSMisFits 2 months ago
@BMSMisFits its not about volume, its about the perceived SPL, sound pressure level... nothing to do with volume
SoulcheckAudio 2 months ago
Is there a download of this anywhere?
gpmorganThe4th 2 months ago
And guys, this is why we MUST stop listening to MP3 on shitty speakers, for the sake of SOUND. Some people are just killing it.
Kantorounet 2 months ago 2
Needs more cowbell
coosoorlog 2 months ago 91
thank you
rohedron 2 months ago
0:37
listen to the dynamics in the drums..
fucking beautiful.
emcitement 2 months ago 10
You know...there is a knob with "Volume" written on it.
RMS level is not Peak level.
You want it louder ?
Raise the volume.
This is what i do all the time listening to metal/rock/electro...
With most modern music, you lower it because it is so distorted it will give you an headache in less than one minute.
I love metal, and i'm very sad when i hear most metal releases.
Because they could sound so much better with more dynamic...
Turn the volume knob now !
Pipotron3000 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Pipotron3000 read my other comment
SoulcheckAudio 2 months ago
It's too dynamic. Needs more compression.
monty78pig 3 months ago
@monty78pig LOOOOOL
AeonFlexMusic 2 months ago
So the dynamics are a little different. Being a quiet and being loud have nothing to do with it. I could blaaassttt a soft song and make it louder than a heavy song on lower volume. It just has to do with time, place, preference.
courtneykilledkurt95 3 months ago
@courtneykilledkurt95 That's the point. When you blast a song it should sound awesome. If you blast any music released recently you'll just go deaf.
slimshady0297 3 months ago
Dave Grohl just got squashed.
CoopGenereux 3 months ago 6
For all the people interested, let's be clear the difference between the terms:
- Dynamic Compression (the one mentioned in the video)
- Audio Compression (like MP3, AAC, etc)
- Data Compression (like ZIP, RAR, etc).
They are all different terms. Just a heads up to avoid confusion ;)
Tormanoid 3 months ago
I've wrote comment number 666!
malarz84 3 months ago
Unfortunately, Nevermind got remastered just like this.
wolftickets1969 3 months ago 2
you can actually hear Kurts guitar in the second one awsome ;)
Willemguitar 3 months ago
This is just cuz you're terrible at mastering my friend!
tallicalad 3 months ago
@tallicalad agreed
MAZOULEWRECORDINGS 3 months ago
i like it it sounds explosive fuck you all
TheSchoolsux345 3 months ago
thanks for this....I have a theory about sound that i've been working on and your efforts have aided my hypothesis
brokensaphire 3 months ago
Ouch
JustaPaperbagWriter 3 months ago
Good god. The dynamic range... eet ees ded!
Vamphaery 3 months ago
I'm keeping my original vinyl and CD for sure.
fatcatbuzz 3 months ago
0:05 and 0:37
compare
nge1301 3 months ago 13
You idiots the so called "Released today" track he played was Butch Vig's Mix of SLTS featured on the "With The Lights Out" boxed set and th 20th anniversary boxed set
TheFourNobleTruths2 3 months ago
Point proven and point taken! Good video.
PHeMoX 3 months ago
The remastered version has been squished to sh!t. You can't improve upon the original anyways.
MorrockW 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hillarious that the song pretty much universally panned to be the opening shot in the loudness war, should be held up in a potential victimhood of the situation it created
kailuamusicschool 3 months ago
Hillarious that the song pretty much universally panned to be the opening shot in the loudness war, should be held up in a potential victimhood of the situation it created
kailuamusicschool 3 months ago
It seems that just recently, the Loudness War hit Nevermind on it's 20th anniversary. Just compare original and remasters of "Breed." The remaster sounds awfully compressed.
I'm sticking with my original 1991 CD release, thank you very much.
RkivUnderground 3 months ago
Comment removed
slimshady0297 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
h t t p : / / w w w . y o u t u b e . c o m / w a t c h ? v = i O u Z h 8 1 F w 8 c Te equivocaste. Y se puede hacer una grabación con los sonidos perfectamente compenetrados a buen volumen sin distorsión (aunque en el mastering algunos discos si distorcionan, eso es diferente) no significa que cualquier cancnión distorciona si está bien comprimida y limitada. son distintos tipos de producción, se puede lograr un sonido más "¡explosivo!" si se lo desea...
hardsap 4 months ago
(btw im not calling your video shit, just the loudness of the sng)
MegaGeran101 4 months ago
The remaster surprisingly still sounds more dynamic than this shit.
MegaGeran101 4 months ago
yep drumz punch has goneee
2009korte 4 months ago
Nice quality! Though a remastered version of Nevermind has just been released in 2011, as a 20th anniversary special! Kurt FTW
ashiv28 4 months ago
@ashiv28 I'm listening to it on spotify to see whether it's strongly compressed or not. I don't think it's as dynamic as the second but certainly heaps better than the first
TimpBizkit 4 months ago
@ashiv28 Which means it will sound like shit.
HoosierMF 4 months ago
And not to hog, but I also hear you about the loudness problem caused by radio broadcast of modern recordings. Having heard both a broadcast & a Mini-Disc bootleg (Yes, I use Mini-Discs also! Best of CD & cassette convenience combined, I find.) of a streamed version of Miley Cyrus' "Party In the U.S.A. (Don't judge me!) I found the broadcast version to have a intolerably awful "booming" to it, along with the same flaws to it as I've pointed-out in my last comment. Such "progress" is a back-step!
nickelindimer 4 months ago
You don't need to tell me twice about this epidemic... I've got an original of Samantha Fox's "I Wanna Have Some Fun" album on CD (I call any grouping of songs released together on 1-or-more pieces of media "albums") and copied one track onto cassette (Yes, cassette! And good high-bias Maxell at-that!) from an on-line MP3 source. Result? HUGE DIFFERENCES! The "masking" MP3s use to compress the track hid some passages & cause "bursts" of wow on others, making it uncomfortable to listen to.
nickelindimer 4 months ago
Can I ask what audio-related equipment do you use? And are you by a remote chance a member in Head-Fi?
xNIPPOx 4 months ago
Quality, the originals have more of it.
But hey, with the volume on the disk, people who play it wouldn't give a flying fuck about the quality. Unless you know, they care.
TheLynxie 4 months ago
This is about to become reality. A "remastered" version is coming out Sept 27th. Then a 4-CD collector's version in late October. Be interesting to hear it since the album already sounded perfect.
Wizard66 4 months ago
@Wizard66 I think they'll just finish remastering the remaining tracks of nevermind, some of them like teen spirit, in bloom and lithium were already remastered for the self titled album (the greatest hits disk with "you know you're right"). To me it sounded perfect.
IDareToSpeak 4 months ago
it shows how powerfull is the real version
SoDamnBionic 4 months ago
I can remember the first time I heard this song. That fill on the drums the dave does at the beginning of the song just blew my fucking mind. You just don't get that same effect from any song nowadays with these producers fucking up the sound. Damn shame....
jackfn1234 4 months ago
No, this is not a remaster, this is a person playing with their tools. Nice try, though.
SMWssaamm 4 months ago
Nasty!
JZZ31 4 months ago
i guess you overdid the compressor in order to make a point. other than that great video. our bassist which did the mastering for us hates the loudness war and after hearing the final result i'm glad he does
RisenToReclaim 4 months ago
let it breathe.
worldwideMCM 4 months ago
90s music already sounds timeless along with 70s too.
but the eighties used so much reverb and chorus that its to 80s.
jamirosmajicrocks 4 months ago
IT'S ALL ABOUT SOUND COMPRESSION
flamminbags1 4 months ago
The drums sounds much better in the original
MageAtYou 4 months ago
kinda reminds me of what Iggy did for his mix of the Stooges album Raw Power, basically turned it all up in to the red, cliped the wave, and distorted the sound, whilst the previous Bowie mix was mixed too low, still waiting for a decent mix of that album
theblahman 4 months ago
I will burn this on CD so I can hear the differences more clearly but I can tell a bit already on this el cheapo dell 960 internal speaker LOL!!
I bet you can guess the race of the persons who like killing sound quality.
I bet a future rebuttal of Hollywood editor resellers has the right to do with the reselling of music and distortion on the customers ears is pure hogwash.
If any of you sound studio employees or contractors who read this...SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!
inachu 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@inachu the moment you said, "I bet you can guess the race of the persons who like killing sound quality." The remainder of your opinion went flatline. Sad...
smooveredd 4 months ago
Snobsville
airborn101st 4 months ago
When I'm recording music, I tend to reduce rediculous peaks. Say at one point in the song there is a peak 6dB louder than the others, I preview it to see if it's supposed to be there or if it's just static.. I might reduce snare peaks to equal height, but never reduce them to the height of the guitar part if they were meant to be louder.
TimpBizkit 4 months ago
Call me a dumbass but it sounds or "smells" the same to me.
fightinandirish 4 months ago
@fightinandirish Use some good phones and pay particular attention to the drums.
RedtheGhost 4 months ago
@Ajuk, I have one theory why they're doing this.
Remember when France imposed that Volume Limit on every player sold there?
And Sony imposes the AVLS system in some of their players which also limits the volume of the sound.
alibiserver 4 months ago
seriously? i hear no difference at all...
gullaschkoenig 4 months ago
@gullaschkoenig
Then you have ear damage, too bad.
GTASA911 4 months ago
wow - difference is like night & day! great video - and yes the loudness war is a great shame against music lovers, shame on all the engineers who can't see this
DJMichaelAngelo 4 months ago 23
Your mastering sucks.It is shame for all mastering engineers...
THE LOUDNESS WAR IS OVER
KyriakosAsteriou 3 months ago
@KyriakosAsteriou all cds sound like this , distorted etc
MrDemilord 2 months ago
In the first example it's really compressed and lacked in the mids-highs.
dreamofthemirrors 4 months ago
well that's not really a good example for two reasons..
1. your generically overcompressing something that has already been mastered.
2. All the example did was brick wall it and push it, I'm sure I could do the same example and make it not sound like poop with a little love and care.
SLTS was definitely a GREAT sounding record.
Skrillex is brickwalled and sounds amazing.
To each his own preference though :-)
slashasteriskmusic 5 months ago
In the end the artist's choice is basically this: do they want a song that people will want to turn down, or turn up? To me, the loudness wars have the opposite effect. I turn every modern song right down, because the average loudness is higher, and I have to use 5-10% volume if I want to listen longer than 10 minutes (which I don't, really). Play some song from the early 90's with 10+ dB of dynamic range and you just wanna turn that right up to 100%, because it actually sounds like music.
quantum112 5 months ago
wow stumbling across these loudness wars cd's today have really made me changed my mind about buying remastered versions. ive always thought they've sounded a bit off never knew how much mixers screwed them up these days damn
08WSChamps 5 months ago
My grandmas CD's don't sound like this. She's from 1992, so maybe in the olden days CD's weren't made to sound like that.
TwinMillMC 5 months ago
Nah. It doesn't have a rapped verse D:
Tertyu48 5 months ago
Thanks for drawing attention to this. It needs saying.
therealsweep 5 months ago
Well to my ears listening to the tape in 91 vs the cd a few years later, I went from enjoying the tape to actually selling the cd and wishing I still had my tape. The same could be said with Bleach, both records sounded like something made by Black Sabbath in the 70's vs. just sounding loud and distorted, the tape had warmth whereas the digital had a kind of jarring effect to my ears, it was a tiring experience rather than a energizing one.
JagdT34 5 months ago
0:17 you can clearly see that waves are being cut and that's BAD mastering!!! 0:41 you can see a lot of peaks, if that line represents 0db, it means everything over the top will be cut and that's bad mastering too, going to sound the same. You need to cut those peaks without loosing quality and without distortion. Every track need's mastering, even the original "Smells like teen spirit" is mastered by pros.
K0lsyr4 5 months ago
There is a slight difference that I couldn't recognize immediately. In fact, I had to really, really try hard to notice a slight equalizer change. That's it. They both sound good.
LTPVG 5 months ago
Haha thats how it sounds on the radio most of the time
I buy original masters online. Hope they're proud of themselvles, they don't get money when you buy used.
themangodess 5 months ago
and this is what fuckeds up music. imo this is unacceptable, you can tell the difference.
scaleop4 5 months ago
It sounds like this on the box set actually.
tallica4lifegbrtdyDM 5 months ago
I actually enjoyed your remix. Before the "connoisseurs of Grunge" jump my ass, I have to say this:
Cobain once said that he preferred amps from pawn shops, and often played with second or third-rate equipment on purpose. "Our sound changes every club we play."
He was also known to plug his guitar directly into the board during album recording, which caused the sound engineers to scream at him more than once.
I HATE modern music. But some things can be tweaked.
Nirvana is actual music, though.
MartianStories 5 months ago
what a load of crap. Music is music, whether it sound louder or not it does not fucking matter. why is everyone whining like schoolgirls? smells like teen spirit is a simple yet cool song. and if it sounds 'raw' in the record than go listen to Celine Dion.
HaBenOni 6 months ago
@HaBenOni The sound quality suffers because of how producers try to make their songs louder. The don't just amplify it, they use compressors to get the maximum volume at all times, eliminating dynamic contrast.
106627bg 6 months ago
.... but it still sold over a million copies.
yeah, loudness is good or whatever but a good song is still a good song. you have a volume knob so use it how you like it.
chaosprune 6 months ago
@chaosprune
You don't know the difference between Volume and Loudness. /Facepalm
ethositachi 6 months ago
It all sounds the same at 360p.
damnghen 6 months ago
From what I see in the video (this could be totally wrong) you've simply clipped the signal. To improve loudness, producers use compressors which limit volume in a softer way than clipping.
106627bg 6 months ago
how do you know it would sound like that? mastering engineers these days are still smart enough to not limit/compress the sound like how you just did
YoonIsaac 6 months ago
Quit saying it sounds better and listen to Nickelback.
creativenameisnotava 6 months ago
This all goes back to modernization of the computer doing music. When is the last time you saw an artist actually write a real album that is not with the use of ANYTHING on a computer? In the 70's bands practiced songs recording to the point they memorized it, and it sounded perfect live. Now everything is looped and done on the computer. That is the real down fall of music. Even rap artists just "sample" older songs and loop a shitty instrumental into it. The loudness war is a casualty of this
LivinWorstNightmare 6 months ago
@LivinWorstNightmare
-Computers don't write music, people do. Even if a computer is used with the production, it is still a person's work.
- In the 70's, people were using compressors, synthesisers, triggers, drum machines, audio effects, beat-mapping to an extent. They looped, cut and sampled. The only difference is they used tape and it was done by hand.
- There have always been bands that play good and bad live.
- Rap has always sucked.
- The loudness war is entirely unrelated to computers.
106627bg 6 months ago
@106627bg
Without computers, the loudness war would not be what it is today, it is entirely related to computers in the year 2011. Think about it.
LivinWorstNightmare 6 months ago
@LivinWorstNightmare Sorry I don't see what you're saying. Compressors have existed long before computers were used to any extent in music. How are the two related?
106627bg 6 months ago